Dev post from Berserker forum

[Giral]

<p>Aerlick said : </p><p>You have a defined role which is tanking.  I am well aware though that guardians are far beyond everyone else in tanking especially raids.  I have said a few times recently though that we will not be making any changes in the short term.  In the longer term there are some changes to enhance survivability of the non guardian fighters but nothing concrete that I can commit to or comment on.  I would expect to see some of that in the fall though and perhaps some discussion at fan faire if the question is brought up.</p><p>7-6-2008 <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=422866" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=422866</a></p><p> so i guess any minor Short term changes have been canceled, becuase Aerlick stated " Recently he has said" so yes we have been being strung along with hope that some Small changes were coming . (becuase recently in the last month or so you did state there might be some short term changes , so this must have been Very recently you said NO short term.        </p><p>seen here just a month and a half ago (13th post down first page <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=418420�" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...418420?</a> )</p><p>so it will be a very long time for anything, not even minor tweaks that could be reverted once the Possible longterm changes come. </p><p>only good news is that Earlick defines all tanks roles as TANKS and realises that guardians are above and beyond other tanks absurdly ( altho the changes to mythical weopons realy dont reflect how overpowered he thinks they are for DEF/DPS/agro)</p><p>so at most we are looking at possible drops of info at fan faire /chuckle </p><p>personaly i just think there bleeding off all the sk class in rok , forcing people to re-role if they want a raid spot, any people left playing SK by sept when and If there are actual long term fixes(go to test first so possibly wont see anything until late oct/early nov)  will be so rare and few and far between at endgame that anychanges they make at that point wont mean anything, and the sk's that are still there will be over joyed at that point with any tiny scrap soe throws there way. </p><p> dont expect any responses on SK boards, as i said IMO there are trying to leak the class, an easiest way to do that is not to respond to major issue's(and sk's are one if not the most in need  of tweaks in ROK Immediatly to save the class) to ignore the class  entirely, and to leave it in a broken state for more then 6 + months  , and by the time we do get any INFO will be fan faire and fixes possibly starting in sept ? so it will be 1+ year with NOT ONE TWEAK FOR AGRO/DEF/DPS ...what would you do if you had 4 plate tanks ? fix them all ? or get rid of some? seriously since only a few handful of sk's world wide were in-raid guilds when rok came out, and now only 1 handfull is left, what will there be left by November ?  </p><p> all i can say is the class is dead, the devs put a bullet in it. the entire game community screams about sk's on mulitple forums,about them for Raids and group content in ROK on multiple topics and the devs just ignore it . even in the Mythical revamp thread there are plenty of other classes that say strait out " i realy feel for the SK's in rok they just have been completly shafted, and yet still our mythical has no def/aviod/damage absorbtion/block/parry/Nothing </p><p>to busy changing Master strikes for new players /sigh </p>

[Hugsnkissums]

It's negativity like this that makes them not want to come here because posts like this just "stir the pot". He said nothing concrete about crusaders so we can't assume we're part of the fix, only that Guardians are far beyond everyone else and since this was in response to a berzerker thread, they might be the one's getting some love. I know a lot of people who betrayed to be guardians because they're the favorites at the moment, but unfortunately betraying wouldn't help us. I can only hope "non-guardians" also refers to crusaders as well. We are not the only ones disgruntled about the choices were given with the role we're supposed to fill.

[Giral]

<p>i didnt bash,yell,scream,etc,, i stated how i feel about the situation, is it a negative post yeah, so what ? to play the card of do devs respond to negative posts ? yeah go check out the mythical revamp thread ,Much more vehement then the posts you will have found here with countless well wrtten fact /data based accounts and still Ignored </p><p>been posting in the sk forums since release, have seen a total of 2 replies from devs, so frankly in 4+years of posting here i know we wont get a response no matter positive,fact/data based, or negative Toned </p><p>i wont paint a picture for the devs of maybe zerkers this or maybe crusaders might get this, Sk's dont get replies Zerkers DO . and im pretty sure they have a wealth of Negative posts on the zerker forums. </p><p>there is a diferance see i dont expect a reply to my post from a dev, nor do i want one. </p><p>devs do not post here so this post is for other Sk's and players seeking info on the SK, the state there in and any possible tweaks/fixes coming soon. </p>

[Phelon_Skellhound]

<p>Yeah its a bit on the negative but a tamer side of it.... I agree there will be changes to crusaders but nothing is going to be leaked unless its fan faire I'm guessing... I have been here since release and have no alts... I left and came back so I missed EoF for the most part.. and tried to play the same only to have system shock and having to relearn and refocus priorities and aa's...  I have seen folks betray when that became available, but never in the vast numbers I see now for the easy button pally since RoK came out... heck already had 2 in guild betray their alts already... </p><p>The Pot has been boiling for a long time now... and come RoK well that made it boil over beyond anything I have ever seen... Those that are left are the most passionate and so it is understandable to see the emotions thus far expressed I think...  Our biggest problem is itemization thats what got my goat.... the Demonguard set in general is horrible... solve our itemization and you solve most (not all) of our problems</p>

[Tiberuis]

<cite>Hugsnkissums wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's negativity like this that makes them not want to come here because posts like this just "stir the pot". He said nothing concrete about crusaders so we can't assume we're part of the fix, only that Guardians are far beyond everyone else and since this was in response to a berzerker thread, they might be the one's getting some love. I know a lot of people who betrayed to be guardians because they're the favorites at the moment, but unfortunately betraying wouldn't help us. I can only hope "non-guardians" also refers to crusaders as well. We are not the only ones disgruntled about the choices were given with the role we're supposed to fill.</blockquote><p>I don't give a rats *ss if the Dev's don't like negative posts in the SK forums.  You will find the vast majority of posts in the SK forums <i>are</i> negative.  That is simply because there is very little to be positive about.</p><p>We are dead last amounst plate tanks in Hit Points, Avoidance, Survivability, Utility and Aggro Management.  We are second last in DPS.  What the hell else are we supposed to do?  SK's got screwed in ROK, period.</p><p>SK's are frustrated because the Dev's made a mess of the plate tank classes, and we got stuck at the bottom of the pile.  What are we supposed to do?  5000 happy dance, smiley, constructive posts, to continue to be ignored?</p><p>Are we happy that our Epic/Mythical is getting some improvements?  You bet we are.</p><p>Are the SK's that have not left the game or betrayed yet emotional about the state of our class in these forums?  Absolutely.  And SOE should be [Removed for Content] happy about that.  </p><p>Because it means we love playing our SK's in this game, and we actually care enough about our toons to voice our concerns, rather than simply moving on to AOC in frustration or re-rolling.</p><p>For the love of all things <i>Un</i>holy SOE, please apply some fixes to this broken class!</p><p>/rant off</p>

[Hugsnkissums]

<p>Ok, vent, rant do whatever ya gotta do to blow off some steam. SKs are far from broken though...at least we can still fill a tank role which most of us still do, at least those of us who haven't thrown our hands up in the air and started soloing with all our time. But lemme ask you this, how hard is it to hold a conversation with someone when all you've got is them screaming in your face, or at least if that's how it's perceived. Talking to someone like that isn't going to make anything better unless all you're willing to do is agree to their side of things, because that's all they want to hear. </p><p>Can you be upset, but still respectful that perhaps you might be missing something in the "big picture" of things? If not, we may never get an answer, because all we want to hear is that SKs are doing better then guardians or for that matter better then any other fighter class. Evertime we have a comparision to make, we bring up all the other fighter classes and ask for something similar (tanking ability of a guardian, HT like a brawler's Dev Fist, etc). We've basically got something concrete now that says Guardians are the favored tanks out there, and the Devs realize it.  To want us to be better then that class that's already admittantly stronger then all the others is just asking for way too much.  </p>

[Mr. Dawki]

<p>So what exactly is taking so much of the devs time? Last i checked you need a player base to build your game around, and recently that playerbase, those long faithfull customers, are only getting more and more ticked off from devs saying "nothing in the near future"</p><p>Does SOE like losing its players? The have the most messed up business plan I have ever seen if that is the case. Get on the ball devs, FIX YOUR PROBLEMS BEFORE YOU CREATE NEW ONES.</p>

[Luag]

you should rename yourself hugsandkissestodevrear, no one is screaming in anyones face, this guy painted an acurate picture of the situation and you want to stick your head in the sand, and the zerkers aren't getting any love, arselick came into the thread just to tell everyone to shut up and deal, because they arn't getting anything, maybe they will get some survivability in sept, like any zerk ever asked for it, that's like putting health regen on their epic. they wanted snap aggro mostly. I think sk's would like more utility and dps, I know I would like it in mine, perhaps an aa that makes 2 handers really viable, there's so much they could do with us, and they dont"at least they can fill a tank role" so can my brig, and does often, the fact that you dont need a fighter to tank for any heroic instance in the game tells you something. (no round shield)and spot on with the too busy fixing master strikes comment

[Aull]

<p>If all the tanks can tank the same then why have six of them? That isn't my statement but I read that somewhere in the forums and I do agree to it somewhat. Now this is how I was led to believe the tanks where suppose to be ranked as defensive and offensive. This isn't offical but I was told that guardians and paladins are to be the defensive tanks while the sk's and zerkers are offensive. As for monks and bruisers I can't tell which is suppose to be the offensive or defensive brawler.</p><p>From what I am gathering: </p><p>Guardians are great defense/survivability, good dps & great snap aggro, last in ae fighter damage and perfered tank by most guilds that raid.</p><p>Paladins are good defense/survivability, ok/good dps, best ae fighter, & excellent snap aggro second best tank for guilds that raid .</p><p>Zerkers are ok defense/survivability, second best fighter dps, huge aggro retention/regaining problems with no snap aggro tools (minus rescue but all fighters have it) third best ae fighter and are being asked by most guilds to betray to guardian (that isn't concrete).</p><p>Sk's are last in defense/survivability, ok/good dps, a few snap aggro tools but still suffer aggro retention/regain, second best ae fighter, and not really sought after for mt or ot by most guilds due to nothing impressive with the class as a whole.</p><p>Monks are greatest fighter dps, decent survivability, best fighter support for groups, very good aggro retention single target and best lost aggro regain, tied last with guardian in ae fighter damage, and are used on raids for good raid wide buff.</p><p>Bruiser third best fighter dps, ok survivability but not having any ground breaking defensive skills, good aggro control single target, modest raid buff, no group buffs, fourth in ae fighter damage, and are not needed by guilds that do raid due to nothing impressive with the class as a whole.</p><p>That again is just what I see when I read all the forums. I do understand that these forums are all opinions too, so none of what I just described is concrete. However, how far off is my understanding? Btw most of this is viewed upon as casual grouping to raiding. So I ask who is suppose to be offensive and who is to be defensive?</p>

[ZThoth]

<p>Sure there are differences among the tank classes, but when we all switch into Defensive stance, we're expecting to be able to do our job efficiently.  Currently, this isn't happening on a consistant basis.</p>

[DMIstar]

<cite>Aull wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If all the tanks can tank the same then why have six of them? That isn't my statement but I read that somewhere in the forums and I do agree to it somewhat. Now this is how I was led to believe the tanks where suppose to be ranked as defensive and offensive. This isn't offical but I was told that guardians and paladins are to be the defensive tanks while the sk's and zerkers are offensive. As for monks and bruisers I can't tell which is suppose to be the offensive or defensive brawler.</p><p>From what I am gathering: </p><p>Guardians are great defense/survivability, good dps & great snap aggro, last in ae fighter damage and perfered tank by most guilds that raid.</p><p>Paladins are good defense/survivability, ok/good dps, best ae fighter, & excellent snap aggro second best tank for guilds that raid .</p><p>Zerkers are ok defense/survivability, second best fighter dps, huge aggro retention/regaining problems with no snap aggro tools (minus rescue but all fighters have it) third best ae fighter and are being asked by most guilds to betray to guardian (that isn't concrete).</p><p>Sk's are last in defense/survivability, ok/good dps, a few snap aggro tools but still suffer aggro retention/regain, second best ae fighter, and not really sought after for mt or ot by most guilds due to nothing impressive with the class as a whole.</p><p>Monks are greatest fighter dps, decent survivability, best fighter support for groups, very good aggro retention single target and best lost aggro regain, tied last with guardian in ae fighter damage, and are used on raids for good raid wide buff.</p><p>Bruiser third best fighter dps, ok survivability but not having any ground breaking defensive skills, good aggro control single target, modest raid buff, no group buffs, fourth in ae fighter damage, and are not needed by guilds that do raid due to nothing impressive with the class as a whole.</p><p>That again is just what I see when I read all the forums. I do understand that these forums are all opinions too, so none of what I just described is concrete. However, how far off is my understanding? Btw most of this is viewed upon as casual grouping to raiding. So I ask who is suppose to be offensive and who is to be defensive?</p></blockquote><p>If you ask a dev what the role of an SK is, you will get silence. This question has been asked for a very long time, and still remains unanswered along with the slew of discrepencies on this class. aka the description given for it.</p><p>What your referring to is the assesments that where given back when moorguard was here, Which is a long gone idea, since these differences are now not virtually seen in the game. </p><p>Like the healers, the fighters are supposed to do the same job, tanking, but in different ways... This however never did truly happen, I doubt if anyone ever realy tried laying out a plan on how to make each diverse and build from there, Cause for it to stray as far as it has would not be possible otherwise... </p><p>So right now the true ruleing on where the classes should be is unknown, and I doubt they will ever say, for clearly i think they have no idea on the subject and probably care less on it.. (Major focus is on makeing another expansion that will show the disparity even more, since we are not fixing or changeing it.)  Right now I agree with a prev poster...  it seems other then doing the one fighter class that the dev mentioned, its clearly a waste of time. </p>

[Giral]

<p>any information i have found out about anything pertaining to SK's, has been from Other sights the devs posted on(and not in the SK section), Dev chat , or other class forums/forums in eq2forums. </p><p>just some more info for you to dwell on about our negative posts in a forum thats been ignored since day ONE. (4 dev posts in 4 years and only 2 of them were anything to do with the sk class, and one was a joke from A-Lick about nerfin deatmarch, and low and behold it is nerfed in ROK) </p><p>please understand that we have been ignored for going on 5 years, we have had far less tweaks then we have had NERF's over those years, and all our nerf's go without explanation. (wyle other classes have been seeing steady upgrades/tweaks/No nerf's and they didn't even have issue's to begin with /sigh)</p><p>Reaver was one of the only things Sk's had that was a Decent ability for an Endline AA. and so of course that was Nerfed (and unless people were secretly whining (/bug) about it i never heard one person in freinds/guild/groups/lvl chats/world chats. Ever complain about our reaver) </p><p>why do SK's only have 3 Endline abilities in the CLASS specific AA tree? </p><p>why do ,,,, ahh just forget it lol ,,, im done!</p>

[stahlej]

<p>I think it is strange that they have a program where they invite players and yet the game is still as frustrating as it was when RoK launched.</p><p>There is no way I would resubscribe with the current state of the class.</p><p>I look forward to playing the Death Knight class in WoW since Blizzard gets game design. Gameplay is about having a feeling of being awesome. Where the EQ2 is designed around 3 core classes and if you didn't pick the right one or don't want to play one... well, suck for you!</p>

[Nero]

I'm afraid that "longer term" takes over 1 year.I can't wait even half year any more.SK and crusaders need fundamental and essential revamp any day now.

[Gaereth]

<cite>Mr. Dawkins wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So what exactly is taking so much of the devs time? Last i checked you need a player base to build your game around, and recently that playerbase, those long faithfull customers, are only getting more and more ticked off from devs saying "nothing in the near future"</p><p>Does SOE like losing its players? The have the most messed up business plan I have ever seen if that is the case. Get on the ball devs, FIX YOUR PROBLEMS BEFORE YOU CREATE NEW ONES.</p></blockquote>They really areny losing any player base. I think for the most part people quit playing and go off to do other things but forget to cancel their account and still are paying. SOE isnt going to feel anything with people doing this. I have to admit I am one of them. If you want to make them feel it, cancel for a few months and do something else. If enough do this then they will feel it. You can always come back and your character will still be there...