Aerlik, Can we get some sort of Class Revamp? seriously...

[Talathion]

<p>Guards = More DPS, More Defence then us, /fix berserker.</p><p>Berserk Procs need +100 Combat Art Damage, +10% melee Crit, +10% Double attack, that would fix us prolly.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>revamp is a strong word for such small issues this class faces. since were not "the" tank, and we already accepted that we should continue to see benefits from our abilities. </p><p>open wounds: obviously zerks with their mythical know that we got the shaft as the mythical replaced half of this class defining ability. make it proc AE damage instead then? think, i know zerks aren't the only ones who can come up with ideas around here...</p><p>juggernaut: how many zerks hit cap in crit once your mythical procs? *raise hand*m this will be worse with the mythical change and i will be basically capped in crit before even engaging a mob. so why debuff myself for the bonus to CAs? good question.. this was supposed to be burst DPS, it isn't so much anymore, why can't it be again? say if you are over 100% crit it improves base damage of your main hand weapon, it could even quad attack on 10% of outgoing attacks... ideas, you can work off of mine.</p><p>turmoil: casting speed is just old and out of line anymore. there's no benefit to casting it in combat, never was. not really an important one but i never was all that fond of the casting time on this ability or even all of our AoEs for that matter, i even avoid most of them now with my mythical because they reduce overall DPS most of the time.</p><p>half the problem is how many zerks even have their mythical? well i can only comment on my current concerns but i never noticed any huge disparities aside from survivability at lower tiers. </p><p>so all in all, most zerks can cap out in alot of areas quite easily making some of our best abilities lackluster. changing a few small things could help make some zerks feel like they aren't being shoved aside anymore. </p><p>anyways, probably more of my time wasted typing this [I cannot control my vocabulary] so i'm done. </p>

[Baug]

Diminishing returns is what is hurting these days.   My gear is far from the best and I'm running over or close to cap on almost everything at various times.  Heck, I'm over 50DA dual wielding with a choker on now.  When you're already at 250 haste and 150dps what good is a berserk buff at this point?  Open Wounds is irrelevant with the mythical, Jugger is getting close to irrelevant, berserk hasn't been good since t6, yet the upgrades are what...2dps 2haste?  BLAH.  They are either going to have to get creative with class changes, massively nerf gear,  or have another major combat revamp a la LU13 as they have themselves in a box now with this diminishing returns stuff.I'd like to see berserk completely changed.... like give it 5 tiers of berserk where the crazier you get the more damage you do and absorb.  They could make tier 5 berserk really insane but at a cost of maybe you can't change targets until what you're on is dead, or you accidentally hit raid members, or some huge exhausting swing that makes you drop unconscious, etc.  There is a lot they could do besides useless +dps, +haste.Not holding my breath, but I think they realize things are going to have to change before an expansion.

[Elanjar]

<cite>InsaneChaosMarine wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Guards = More DPS, More Defence then us, /fix berserker.</p><p>Berserk Procs need +100 Combat Art Damage, +10% melee Crit, +10% Double attack, that would fix us prolly.</p></blockquote>okay thats an insane berserk proc. they would never give us somethin like that and i wouldnt want it. I do like the idea of a multi level stacking. When I imagine a zerker I imagine them in a rage where they ignore dmg and get more and more violent until they've gone to far and then losses come. So a stacking berzerk with negative termination effects if you reach the max lvl would be good.perhaps the negative effects could be something similar to res sickness. -% to all stats, -s/c/p for x seconds

[Bu]

<p>"SoE policy strictly prohibits a developer from revamping any class to which they do not play." Chapter 4, Section 2, Subsection 6 of the revised code of SoE employee ethics.</p><p> Combine that with</p><p>"No SoE employed developer may, at any time, realize and impliment a change to a current SoE tittle that originates and is popular in a different game. You will be tested on this later."  Chapter 1, Section 1.</p><p> Unfortunately since WoW has scheduled time to look at and revise classes, it will never happen in EQ2.</p>

[Zeuhl]

<cite>Bunn@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>"SoE policy strictly prohibits a developer from revamping any class to which they do not play." Chapter 4, Section 2, Subsection 6 of the revised code of SoE employee ethics.</p><p> Combine that with</p><p>"No SoE employed developer may, at any time, realize and impliment a change to a current SoE tittle that originates and is popular in a different game. You will be tested on this later."  Chapter 1, Section 1.</p><p> Unfortunately since WoW has scheduled time to look at and revise classes, it will never happen in EQ2.</p></blockquote>HAHAHAHA...I check in to see how you guys are doing after cancelling my account 3 months ago and ya'll are still getting crapped on. Sorry that things haven't changed guys.

[LygerT]

<p>well some things are looking up, we're finally getting snap aggro, we got blood regeneration turned into a permanent buff.</p>

[Zeuhl]

Hopefully that small light way way down at the end of the tunnel isn't a train...

[Ashmoda]

Cross-posted from eq2flames here, because I honestly think that asking for more DPS and survivability is silly and doesn't show any regard for overall game balance. The same can be said for asking for "class revamps", there are a few minor issues with our class but it isn't the end of the world. 1 or 2 small changes would see us as balanced, happy tanks. Well, me at least.<p>The 500 or so dps that most high-end off-tank berserkers are able to put out over their Guardian main-tank counterparts is more like 8% more dps, in fact thats about the same difference as we saw in t7 nothing has really changed.</p><p>But even then you can't compare, how many are sitting here and comparing their personal DPS as MT to their Guardian's DPS as MT? My guess is very few, people tend to compare MT guardian vs OT/DPS berserker, that's not a fair comparison. The gap is more like 15-18% when you compare equal raid groups, at least I outdps our Guardian by about that much when I MT easy content versus when he does, and yes that figure does drop to around 7-8% when I am not MT, which is almost all the time!</p><p>I guess one problem is that when the going gets tough, and I have to tank something that hits quite hard and I have to slap on a tower shield, all of the sudden I'm now doing like 25% less DPS than the Guardian does as MT. Maybe that should be addressed. Those situations are rare though, I can only think of a handful of mobs where I would feel uncomfortable not ditching my buckler.</p><p>Also the lack of AE encounters hurts us, but that's a game design problem not a class problem per se. When AE possibility IS present, we do shine: I have no problem dropping a fat parse on Avatar of War, for example, or clearing SoH trash, I have MT'd that and managed to sustain a 8.5k+ parse for over 12 or so minutes of chain pulling, I would hardly call that bad. Certainly no Guardian is going to touch that.</p><p>I think that it's quite likely that guardians do too much DPS, but I don't think we should be asking for more, I think that us doing any more DPS than we currently do would be just as unbalancing as Guardian's current DPS, we are quite fine in that department it's just our counterpart's overpoweredness makes us look bad, IMO we are still a better overall class than the 4 other tanks (not counting Guards), and I think Berserkers are the best rounded off tank overall, if a few minor changes are made.</p><p>We need snap agro, we are kind of sort of getting it in a round about way with the Insolence change. After that, we are mostly fine. It's Guardians that need a nerf from a game balance/design perspective, but that's not a problem with our class.</p><p>I can think of two more changes we should be lobbying for, if we want to balance things as much as they can be: </p><p>* Our 2-set VP bonus which gives us some silly bonus to Ram that doesn't have a real meaningful effect should be replaced with the counterpart to the Guardian's 2-set VP bonus, which would mean -60 seconds off of Insolence recast time. Bad enough that we can't modify the recast via AA's, but not being able to modify it by gear either means Guards wandering around with their "snap agro" tool on half the recast timer ours is, that is the suck. Combine the Insolence hate positional change with a change to our VP set (or garbage EoF AA's) that allows us to reduce the recast of said ability and I will be 80% happy with the state of my class (not withstanding Guardians still needing a nerf!)</p><p>* The other 20% has to do with hit-rates, and the fact that our combat arts need to be brought from 25% to-hit at master to 40%, which all other fighters and scouts seem to have, we seem to have the lowest to-hit chance of any melee class and I can't quite understand why. This cripples us when main tanking orange cons especially, and unless there's some design document that states that Berserkers need to miss like crazy I have to assume that it's an oversight and we should have the same 40% to-hit chance that other melee classes do on their regular single target CAs. This wouldn't up our DPS in most situations, but would make it so that perhaps we didn't have a squishy or two die every handful of pulls when our first 5 melee attacks get parried or blocked, main tanking high-end (trash mostly) content. In a way, this also falls under the snap agro category, except it has to do with snapping agro on the pull.</p><p>To recap all of that spam in a few bullet points:</p><p>- We <b>do not</b> need adjustments that further increase our DPS.- We <b>do not</b> need adjustments that further increase our survivability.- We <b>do need</b> our hit-rates to be brought in line with other melee classes.- We <b>do need</b> adjustments that further increase our <b>snap agro/hate generation capability</b>, especially faced with today's raids doing 100-120k zone-wide DPS.</p>

[Aull]

<p>I have been on vaction and haven't seen what is our so called "new snap aggro" tool?</p><p>I find Shandreya's post very informing and I feel that dps/survivability isn't what is needed for zerkers but the snap aggro and hate generation along with hit ratio's being fixed!</p><p>Very nice!</p>

[LygerT]

<p>i agree with the last part Shandreya posted, our hit rates stink on orange cons, more than any melee class and i kept trying to think of how it was.. of course we lack the self attack skill buff but even with a warden my hit rates still stink. i never really paid attention to our resistability on our CAs vs other classes, if that is true i would have to also ask, why? </p><p>we are a well balanced offensive tank class, it's just that all tanks compare themselves vs guardians who have seemingly been handed everything on a platter over the course of the past 2 years. </p><p>sure i don't like that our offensive buffs got watered down but even so we parse where we should for a plate tank class, however guardians just parse a little too well for the defensive counterpart. </p>