bruisers fight animations

[Aull]

<p>This is just a thought but bruiser's have this mile wide slower than cold molasses going uphill in January roundhouse punch that just looks very off balanced. Not that this is a horrible thing but would like to see bruisers attacks actually looking well executed and powerful to match up with the hard hits they are suppose to be known for. I am not asking for the jumping around martial arts animations that monks have, but something with more muy thai style power. Upper cuts, elbow and knees kinda animations.</p><p>Any thoughts?</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>I'm just gonna say this: Guardians and Berzerkers get more Martial Arts animations than us Martial Artists.</p><p>My monk doesn't have ONE SINGLE Flying kick or Roundhouse attack. Our most powerful kick is the Sparta Stomp from 300. How creative.</p><p>Back in EQlive, pre-luclin Human Monks got a whole slew of animations, including a Low Blow Punch to the breadbasket, or in an ogre's case, the family jewels.</p>

[Psychotic One]

Too bad they can't draw inspiration from the new LoN cards for animations.  I wish my Frozen Palm looks like Sub Zero Upper Cut from Mortal Kombat

[Cusashorn]

^ Oh that would be awesome.

[Untruth]

<p>Combat arts in general could really use a revamp in terms of animations. I mean, the majority of CAs in the game are just your weapon lighting up in particles and swinging it.</p><p>Personally, despite it defying physics, i actually liked it back when certain CAs made you leap into the air and do a slash, granted you can still do that you can no longer move and jump around an enemy.</p>

[Aull]

<p>I can't really answer as to how all the monks animations are but I do feel from what I have seen the animations do fit the monk class style for the most part. Bruisers to me just look to slow and like they are off balance with their punches. Yeah I do agree my zerkers does have some animations that are really not what I would call a plate fighters animation due to the fact that they look to martial artist like.</p><p>Again this is just me and I just think that bruisers just look to darn slow (not speaking of haste either) and off balance when actually punching at a mob.</p>

[ke'la]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm just gonna say this: Guardians and Berzerkers get more Martial Arts animations than us Martial Artists.</p><p>My monk doesn't have ONE SINGLE Flying kick or Roundhouse attack. Our most powerful kick is the Sparta Stomp from 300. How creative.</p><p>Back in EQlive, pre-luclin Human Monks got a whole slew of animations, including a Low Blow Punch to the breadbasket, or in an ogre's case, the family jewels.</p></blockquote>What weopon are you using Cusa? With Fistwraps there are tons of Martial Arts animations, same with the Quarterstaff+Fistwrap, or the 2 handed Bow Staff. That said most if not all of the GOOD Monk weopons revert to the same attack animations as the Sword Wielders, this includes many of the "Fist" weopons.

[Psychotic One]

<p>Alot of weapons they use the wrong stances for though.  </p><p> Namely Tonfas [you hold them on the nub not the hilt and run them down your forearm to block swords and help inflict heavy cranial injury using muy tai], Escrima Fighting sticks [Think daredevil billy club], katar [its a push dagger not a knuckler], Cestus [which really is a gauntlet not a bowl]</p><p>I know they condensed animations down to help keep the game moving smoother but it would be nice if they added more flair to the game by giving diffrent weapon types more unique animation types.</p>

[Jrel]

Yeah, it looks like much of the combat animations are canned. Some of my guardian, shadowknight, and bruiser animations are the same; regardless of weapon. 

[Cusashorn]

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm just gonna say this: Guardians and Berzerkers get more Martial Arts animations than us Martial Artists.</p><p>My monk doesn't have ONE SINGLE Flying kick or Roundhouse attack. Our most powerful kick is the Sparta Stomp from 300. How creative.</p><p>Back in EQlive, pre-luclin Human Monks got a whole slew of animations, including a Low Blow Punch to the breadbasket, or in an ogre's case, the family jewels.</p></blockquote>What weopon are you using Cusa? With Fistwraps there are tons of Martial Arts animations, same with the Quarterstaff+Fistwrap, or the 2 handed Bow Staff. That said most if not all of the GOOD Monk weopons revert to the same attack animations as the Sword Wielders, this includes many of the "Fist" weopons.</blockquote><p>My epic for one. It's still pretty lame though. Some of our animations are no different from warriors and crusaders, and they get some kicks and attacks that would be improbable to pull off with that heavy armor.</p><p>Why not a bicycle or flying axe kick animation? Why not the Flying Kick animation from EQlive?</p>

[ke'la]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm just gonna say this: Guardians and Berzerkers get more Martial Arts animations than us Martial Artists.</p><p>My monk doesn't have ONE SINGLE Flying kick or Roundhouse attack. Our most powerful kick is the Sparta Stomp from 300. How creative.</p><p>Back in EQlive, pre-luclin Human Monks got a whole slew of animations, including a Low Blow Punch to the breadbasket, or in an ogre's case, the family jewels.</p></blockquote>What weopon are you using Cusa? With Fistwraps there are tons of Martial Arts animations, same with the Quarterstaff+Fistwrap, or the 2 handed Bow Staff. That said most if not all of the GOOD Monk weopons revert to the same attack animations as the Sword Wielders, this includes many of the "Fist" weopons.</blockquote><p>My epic for one. It's still pretty lame though. Some of our animations are no different from warriors and crusaders, and they get some kicks and attacks that would be improbable to pull off with that heavy armor.</p><p>Why not a bicycle or flying axe kick animation? Why not the Flying Kick animation from EQlive?</p></blockquote>Thats the problem, take off your weopons and you will see the flying kicks and round house kicks, just played it Saterday Night, STR spec'd. The problem is generally the only time you see those animations is with No-Weopons or with the Fist Wraps which are the equivilant of no weopons, if I was home I could tell you wich CAs did roundhouse attack. Also pick-up a bow staff or 1-handed Quarterstaff(Primary)+Fist Wraps also gives some great "Martial Arts" animations... and I love the Staff taunt. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[dragontamer619]

<p>When my Templar uses a quarter staff he has the exact same martial art animations as my wife's Monk.  That is something I do not agree with...I'm a healer not a kung fu master.  So animations should be different and it would be nice to see the brawlers use more ninja animations than they do now.</p>

[valkry]

<p>bruiser <i>Noun</i> <i>Informal</i> a strong tough person, esp. a boxer or a bully </p><p><a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/misc/HarperCollinsProducts.aspx?English" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Collins Essential English Dictionary</a> 2nd Edition 2006 © </p><p>Let the monks do the ninja thing... I want less martial arts, more boxer. Give me punches that look like they were thrown by Mohammad Ali or Mike Tyson. Dang, I might even go for the ear-biting animation, if they could get it to look right. I'm a 'Brusier', give me animations that make me look like the chick you DO NOT want to met in a dark alley. I should look like Norrath's version of the guys Vinny the loanshark sends out when you forget to pay him, not some emo monk.</p>

[Aull]

<cite>valkry wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>bruiser <i>Noun</i> <i>Informal</i> a strong tough person, esp. a boxer or a bully </p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/misc/HarperCollinsProducts.aspx?English" target="_blank">Collins Essential English Dictionary</a> 2nd Edition 2006 © </p><p>Let the monks do the ninja thing... I want less martial arts, more boxer. Give me punches that look like they were thrown by Mohammad Ali or Mike Tyson. Dang, I might even go for the ear-biting animation, if they could get it to look right. I'm a 'Brusier', give me animations that make me look like the chick you DO NOT want to met in a dark alley. I should look like Norrath's version of the guys Vinny the loanshark sends out when you forget to pay him, not some emo monk.</p></blockquote>Very well stated. I agree.

[ke'la]

<cite>valkry wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>bruiser <i>Noun</i> <i>Informal</i> a strong tough person, esp. a boxer or a bully </p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/misc/HarperCollinsProducts.aspx?English" target="_blank">Collins Essential English Dictionary</a> 2nd Edition 2006 © </p><p>Let the monks do the ninja thing... I want less martial arts, more boxer. Give me punches that look like they were thrown by Mohammad Ali or Mike Tyson. Dang, I might even go for the ear-biting animation, if they could get it to look right. I'm a 'Brusier', give me animations that make me look like the chick you DO NOT want to met in a dark alley. I should look like Norrath's version of the guys Vinny the loanshark sends out when you forget to pay him, not some emo monk.</p></blockquote>Well last time I played a Brusier... again Sans-Weapons, your fighting stance was more "Kick Boxer" then Kung-Fu master, which I think more goes to the Brusier thing. I think the main issue though is that the animations are tied to the weapon used, and not the class. Granted, certain weapons can only be wielded certain ways, for example, there really is only one way to use a Claymore. On the other hand Batons, "Fist Style" weapons, and Staffs, all have multiple ways to wield them and they which way you wield them should be based on class, for example Healers, should always carry a Stick weapon like they do a mace/great hammer. While others like Warriors/Brawlers use it in the more marshal arts stance, and I think only Brawlers should use it in "Block" animations, as Warriors are trained to use shields to block.

[Cusashorn]

Mui Thai Kickboxing is one of the most savage forms of martial arts in the world. I would consider it nothing less than appropriate to see a Bruiser demonstrating it.

[Morghus]

When I think of bruiser fighting animations, Gene from the playstation 2 game God Hand comes to mind. He uses a very mixed martial arts style with some very unorthodox moves mixed in with some more traditional ones with a major focus on devastating finishing hits.Here is an example of some of his moves. Spoilers if you plan on playing the game. Yes, he says "burn" alot.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPkRaXfARDk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPkRaXfARDk</a>

[Aull]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mui Thai Kickboxing is one of the most savage forms of martial arts in the world. I would consider it nothing less than appropriate to see a Bruiser demonstrating it.</blockquote>Agreed.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm just gonna say this: Guardians and Berzerkers get more Martial Arts animations than us Martial Artists.</p><p>My monk doesn't have ONE SINGLE Flying kick or Roundhouse attack. Our most powerful kick is the Sparta Stomp from 300. How creative.</p><p>Back in EQlive, pre-luclin Human Monks got a whole slew of animations, including a Low Blow Punch to the breadbasket, or in an ogre's case, the family jewels.</p></blockquote>What weopon are you using Cusa? With Fistwraps there are tons of Martial Arts animations, same with the Quarterstaff+Fistwrap, or the 2 handed Bow Staff. That said most if not all of the GOOD Monk weopons revert to the same attack animations as the Sword Wielders, this includes many of the "Fist" weopons.</blockquote><p>My epic for one. It's still pretty lame though. Some of our animations are no different from warriors and crusaders, and they get some kicks and attacks that would be improbable to pull off with that heavy armor.</p><p>Why not a bicycle or flying axe kick animation? Why not the Flying Kick animation from EQlive?</p></blockquote>Thats the problem, take off your weopons and you will see the flying kicks and round house kicks, just played it Saterday Night, STR spec'd. The problem is generally the only time you see those animations is with No-Weopons or with the Fist Wraps which are the equivilant of no weopons, if I was home I could tell you wich CAs did roundhouse attack. Also pick-up a bow staff or 1-handed Quarterstaff(Primary)+Fist Wraps also gives some great "Martial Arts" animations... and I love the Staff taunt. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>The monk epic is a fist weapon, and since it has to go to the primary slot, it forces the fist animation moveset regardless of what you have in the 2nd hand. I took my weapons off and tried barehanded like you said, but the animation style didn't change. Those arn't jump kicks. They're hop kicks. Still very disapointing.

[ZerkerDwarf]

<p>For years I have been feedbacking to turn the berserker's round house kick into a simple front kick which would suit much better a class wearing heavy plate armor, shields and big steel weapons with jumping and spinning in the air looking really ugly.  But they refuse to.</p><p>Further they urgently need to change the idle in-combat posture with a shield:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=421811�" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...11�</a></p><p>= <a href="http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8581/posture7vr4.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/...posture7vr4.jpg</a></p>

[-Arctura-]

(( Alot of the emotes and animations in EQ2 are motion captured.  Ive personally done motion capture and enjoy both acting in the suit, and cleaning up the data afterwards for use in games, and know first hand that it's alot of work.  I'll explain a bit about mocap for people who might not be sure what it involves.Most game studios dont have in-house motion capture equipment and usually outsource it to one of the few mocap companies that exist, since its extremely extremely expensive (for us it was a few thousand dollars an hour.)I believe SOE has their own mocap facilities, since they are a huge company spanning many games... but you never know.The problem with getting wicked new martial arts animations is finding a martial artist to put in the suit. Any buffoon and their dog (ive seen animal mocap lol its funny) Can do imitation martial arts moves, but usually end up looking really goofy and silly, unless they have some formal martial arts training. After that its up to the mocap cleanup artists to skillfull turn the 3d dot info into a wireframe of a bipedal humanoid, usually using Vicon software, these days its a pretty nice program called Vicon Blade, which is so [I cannot control my vocabulary] expensive, you'll never be able to afford it, or see it in your lifetime lol. (it makes Maya and Max look cheap and affordable lol)Then its the job of the animators (which sometimes double as mocap cleanup artists in the first place if they have that much of a skill set) to take the processed mocap data and meld it together with hand-done keyframe animations (if desired) and throw it on the Skeletal Rig that EQ2 uses for its characters.That last part in itself can take a huge amount of time, to get it looking like something they are proud of and want to show off. For my mocap cleanup in Vicon, i can pump out about one mocap anim every 5 minutes, assuming it doesn't involve a character rolling on the ground covering up their 3d dots which would be a pain to reconstruct (since occluded(hidden or covered) dots means you have to recreate them in 3d afterwards).  Mocap cleanup can be as quick as 1 minute, or take as long as 4-5 hours (or more?) depending on the length and complexity of the data. That's just the cleanup process though. Once the data is cleaned up you still have to apply it to a rigged character and tweak it until it looks presentable. I've spend a good 10 hours straight processing a quick 5 second animation in max, and that was just one animation for one rig. EQ2 has multiple rigs and tons of animations. Usually the big time sink is custom bones like Spaulders or shoulderpads, since the Vicon mocap data usually doesnt contain that kind of info (unless the motion capture artist was wearing real platemail armor that was dotted up for mocap <-- never happens except in LOTR or Beowolf). These additional pieces of geometry need to be counter animated by hand for every animation. Fun! ^_^Its not impossible, just... like everything, alot of work <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />I <3 mocap, and hope they do alot more of it! ^_^

[valkry]

<cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with getting wicked new martial arts animations is finding a martial artist to put in the suit. Any buffoon and their dog (ive seen animal mocap lol its funny) Can do imitation martial arts moves, but usually end up looking really goofy and silly, unless they have some formal martial arts training. </blockquote><p>ok, can follow everything you said, & nice to get some insight into the tech behind the game, but that's not really the problem. The problem is the animations are matched to the wrong characters/classes/weapons. </p><p>'Zerkers HAVE the martial arts kick, bruiser don't. Clerics are using staff fighting stances that are all "Crouching Tiger.." when they should hold it with a more 'hammer-like' grip. The kicks that bruisers do get are less "Pride Fighting" and more "RiverDance." Someon just needs to go through, look at the animations &  ask themselves..."Does this look REALLY match this class/gear?"</p>

[profpedantic]

I agree with everyone that this is...well problem may be too strong a word...but definitely something that needs looking into.<div></div><div>however, i also see where Arctura is coming from with the tech side of it.</div><div></div><div>then again, i've been jumping around the MMO's for several months and i've notice that other MMO's (AOC, Vanguard, and even City of Heroes/Villans especially) have decent, if not awesome combat animations that fit the style of fighting being portrayed.  AOC especially...too bad there are so many other things wrong with the game--at least they got the combat animations right.  If they can afford it (and developed it presumably from alpha to beta), then why not the juggernaught that is SOE?</div><div></div><div>but hey, we're just banging our head against the wall....</div><div></div><div>just a bit of my opinion.  Yes, the bruiser should have a more "vicious" fighting style.  Muy Thai would be an excellent base, but if you think that's vicious, you've not seen Penjack Silat...youtube it, it's worth it.  So i would say have the bruiser have a mix of all South East Asian arts (Muy Thai, Penjack Silat, and Kali/Escrima/Arnis)  and throw some boxing and some Pankration-type wrestling in the mix...if animating takedowns is at all possible.</div><div></div><div>the monk on the other hand, should have the high-Kung Fu type, Wuxia film, wire-fu style that we all know and love.  (If not watch Legend of the Liquid Sword...awesome movie).</div><div></div><div>This may be a bit much, but like 4 moves/animations per style and maybe add like 2 more when they get 50+ just to keep it simple, yet interesting.</div><div></div><div>And this is just with the unarmed fighters.  what about the poor "Swashbuckler"  who is stuck with the same 1h-slashing and those brutes of guards/SK/pallys/zerkers get?  what happened to fencing and finesse?  on that same note, and on the SE asian note, assassins and brigands should get a Kali-type knife fighting animation when they use knives/daggers....shouldn't they?  again, here's my head, and there's a wall.</div><div></div><div>just adding to the fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Kram337]

If my bruiser started doing roundhouse kicks and spinning uppercuts I'd actually start playing him again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I 2nd or 3rd this post! More bruiser animations! (and weapons while you're at it. oh wait, I'm not here to derail)

[Zabjade]

<cite>Aull wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mui Thai Kickboxing is one of the most savage forms of martial arts in the world. I would consider it nothing less than appropriate to see a Bruiser demonstrating it.</blockquote>Agreed.</blockquote><span style="color: #00cc00;">Since Zan Fi researched many diffrent forms of combat I'd go Jeet Kun Do for Monks. Tynn Probably learned his fighting style watching animals in the wilderness of Kurnak so the Iksar style might reflect that more as well...</span>