Frustrated with Bruiser..

[Tel]

Not me, my wife, as we are leveling in a trio that consists of her Bruiser, my Inquistor and a friends Warden.  Her frustration comes from, when we are out and about doing quests and what not, she can't keep aggro off of me or the Warden, a lot of times it's healing aggro, if i go all out with my combat arts and such, she'll never taunt it off of me.The other thing that really gets her, is that in order for her to keep aggro, she has to use combat arts with her taunts which, at lvl 63, she uses her taunt and 4 combat arts, and she's at 50% power or less, with very poor in-combat power regenertation.Is there anyway to fix this situation?Do we just have to suffer through having to wait after ever fight for power?She has about 3500 power after grouping up and getting the buffs passed around.She also has a Berserker in her 30s that never seems to have power or hate management issues.Thanks, in advance, for your help and suggestions.

[Tanino]

What AA's are being used on the brawler and bruiser tree?  Also what level are teh Inquisitor and Warden?

[Quicksilver74]

<cite>Thetmes@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not me, my wife, as we are leveling in a trio that consists of her Bruiser, my Inquistor and a friends Warden.  Her frustration comes from, when we are out and about doing quests and what not, she can't keep aggro off of me or the Warden, a lot of times it's healing aggro, if i go all out with my combat arts and such, she'll never taunt it off of me.The other thing that really gets her, is that in order for her to keep aggro, she has to use combat arts with her taunts which, at lvl 63, she uses her taunt and 4 combat arts, and she's at 50% power or less, with very poor in-combat power regenertation.Is there anyway to fix this situation?Do we just have to suffer through having to wait after ever fight for power?She has about 3500 power after grouping up and getting the buffs passed around.She also has a Berserker in her 30s that never seems to have power or hate management issues.Thanks, in advance, for your help and suggestions.</blockquote><p>Ok, it sounds to me like perhaps you are more accustomed to an EQ1 style of play, that involves your tank autoattacking and just taunting occasionally.   That is not the case here.   She will always and absolutely have to use her CA's while tanking.  That is how bruisers hold aggro, from all the damage they can deal.  </p><p>  Your wife needs to take an aggresive playstyle with bruiser.  Honestly I wouldn't bother with taunts at all.  1 damage = 1 hate, so you are far more effective by starting off with CA's instead of taunts.  Have your wife pre-cast Storming Fists, right before she pulls.  she can usually pull with a taunt from a little range, but as soon as the mob is within range I'dtell her to start off with pound , dropkick, then 100 hand punch, and flaming lunge, barbarous stomp, uppercut, n Fist, Meteor Fist,  and by then pound and dropkick should be back up.   If she looses aggro, kidney punch is good for pulling it back fast, and being that you have to be behind the mob, loosing aggro is a good time to hit it.  </p><p>   Additionally she should have as many adept 3's as possible.   At LEAST buy the adpet 1's if your short on money.  Also, with 2 healers she should be fine to tank in offensive stance.   She shoudl use the following buffs:  Blistering Fists (Offensive stance), Quarrel(Extra hate+damage), Battle Lust, Stirring cry, and should put Shake off on the healer who pulls aggro the most.  </p><p>  Also, for AA spec, she should go down the STR line, and the INT line.... if you have enough points I'd also say go down the WIS line.  once you hit max level and start getting good weapons, then drop STR for AGI.  </p><p>  As for power, All I can say is make sure you always have good drink,  and get your manastone HQ out of the way.    Also, it might have been a better idea to go Bruiser, Dirge, Warden as your trio.   Dirges are excellent, and have good buffs for the bruiser, and mana regen also.  Also buffs for the warden if he is melee'ing.  </p><p>EDIT*  Oh by the way, at 65 she'll get Knockout Combination.... your gonna LOVE that spell!  Hit it right before she does all her CA's and watch the enemy melt.  </p>

[Aull]

<p>Great post Crabbok. I would also like to throw in this. Let her have about five seconds before any nukes or heals are cast so taunts and immediate damage can generate some aggro first. Also I would recommend telling her to use intervene or intercede on you or the other group mate right before the pull as well. That seems to help my bruiser too at getting aggro off the get go. Make sure roughhousing line is up too. It is a taunt/small direct damage combat art that does proc quite often. Also what stance does she use? Offensive will be best at doing damage while also increasing hate toward her bruiser where defensive has a less likely chance to hit meaning less aggro but makes her bruiser slightly tougher.</p><p>Just let her have about 5 seconds before anyone decides to cast a huge nuke. With the attention line in the bruiser tree (if or once she has the aa's) taunts can be fired off quicker as well.</p>

[Tel]

Thanks everyone for the advice, that is kind of how we play Crabbok, she just seems to have 0 power. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />The inquisitor is lvl 63 (battle cleric spec'd though I'm going more healing <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />), the warden is lvl 64 (Nuking/healing, no melee aa's)Brawler Line:4-4-8  in Stamina/Wisdom/Int (She is respecing out of stamina)Bruiser Line:5/5 - Stamp5/5 - Shoulder Charge1    - Intemidate5/5 - Haymaker5/5 - Sucker Punch5/5 - Knockout Combination5/5 - Impose5/5 - Brag1/5 - Feign Death--- Currently out of points (86 Points spent at level 63)

[Aull]

How many points in power does she have for her lvl? If power pool is low then may check her gear and see if she needs some strgth since that will give more to power pool. I didn't seem to really ever have a power issue with my bruiser that bad lvling up but again it has been quite some time too.

[Tanino]

<cite>Thetmes@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Brawler Line:4-4-8  in Stamina/Wisdom/Int (She is respecing out of stamina)</blockquote><p>Depending on the gear that you could get, it would probably be better to consolidate down to only two lines and just use fists.</p><p>Go with STR 4-4-8-8 and INT 4-4-8-8 as currently you don't have any defensive specing at all for the tank and are purely offensive.  The ripostes and the parry will make a big difference in the amount of healing that you have to do and with the ripostes and double attack of the strength line she may actually generate more damage as well.  With less healing and more damage most likely the mob will die quicker which solves your power issues as well.  I usually use a single target or aoe taunt when I body pull something and if it's up I will use eagle spin right off the bat, with Gut punch and then I will run around to the front of the mob and start running through the rest of my CA's.  I tend to flip the mobs back to the rest of the party just out of habit so if I do lose aggro for some weird reason, I can see immediately where it's running to and just be able to keep an eye on my group in the case of potential adds.... but use best judgement for the situation.</p><p>If none of those suggestions or better gear help, then I would suggest using power regen totems if you can afford to use them often.</p><p>Hope that helps. </p>

[Sajiin]

Brawlers are very gear dependent try to get her str up as high as you can that will help her generate hate and help her keep aggro easier, think about it from the mobs point of view wouldn't you wanna kill whatever is hurting you the  most <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Don't let her give up we have our issues but bruiser is one of the most fun classes in the game.

[Pnaxx]

<p>It's funny...I am rememebring a time when I had the same power problem. I was drinking mana it seemed. I remember being in FG and just so frustrated with this mana drain. I was asking people in guild what was up.</p><p>The problem is, it got fixed but I can't rememebr what did it. HEhe</p><p>One thing I do rememeber though, was someone telling me that the fighter gear somehow added to the power pool. Up until that, I was buying tresured stuff and looking just for Health and Power stats, but the gear was really for casters.</p><p>So, yea, I was a dumb nuts. I think getting better gear fixed the problem cause it wasn't too much latre I had no issue at all.</p>

[Novusod]

Some things to remember:STR = power so the more STR you have the larger your power pool is going to be and you will hit harder so mobs die faster.Don't bother with taunting if you don't have a dps class in group because you are the dps.  Also 1000 point taunt will generate less hate than a 2000 point combat hit. Make sure you are using all your CAs including Devastation fist.

[evilgamer]

<cite>Crabbok@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote> Honestly I wouldn't bother with taunts at all.  </blockquote><p>I peronally think this is bad advice.  And here is why.</p><p>Take probably our highest dps single target CA.  </p><p>Level 71 Hammer, 264-634 damage adept 1, .5 cast time, 10 sec recast, 64 power = 25-60 threat per second / 4.4 - 10.6 threat per power.</p><p> vs</p><p>Level 72 single target taunt boil, adept 1, 1307-1597 threat,  8 second recast, .25 cast time,  60 power. =  158-194 threat per second / 22-27 threat per power.</p><p>As you can see from a mathematical perspective tuants are clearly superior when compared on a 1 for 1 basis against any combat art.   Basically 3 times more effective for hold aggro, both on a threat per second and threat per point of power basis.  </p><p>Now granted tuants alone are not enough, however, when tanking you should cast them frequently if you want to hold aggro without draining your power and against high dps classes.</p><p>Now granted if you are duoing with a templar its not necessary, but with any other high dps class you practically need to tuant, unless you are way better geared.</p><p>And our encounter taunt is a must for holding aggro against high dps aoe classes, our aoe CA suck compared to it for generating aggro.</p>

[Novusod]

You can taunt the mob all you want but ultimately if you have to dps it to kill it. Taunts for the most part are just wasted power.

[evilgamer]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can taunt the mob all you want but ultimately if you have to dps it to kill it. Taunts for the most part are just wasted power.</blockquote><p>And the dps classes cant kill it if they are going splat due to you not holding aggro. </p><p> Sorry but our dps is [Removed for Content] compared to what an assassin or other high dps class can do when the mob is facing us and hititing us vs facing the assassin hitting them.</p><p>I dont care what you say, if you have equal or less gear then a high dps classs like assassin, even with a dirge in the group.  You will have to tuant to hold aggro or go extremely slow wasting all your power on CA hold aggro and even then you will not hold aggro if the assassin goes all out.  </p><p>A single strike from an assassin can be 7K + in damage, more if it crits. </p>

[Pnaxx]

Heck, when I am in a tough group with lotts of DPS, I am carefully changing targets throughout the encounter to keep agro if I have 3 or more mobs on me. Like in Vaults where you have 4-5 at a time in groups. If I don't taunt/dmg through the encounter, we have a mess on our hands. Taunts are a huge part of our game...least fer me.

[evilgamer]

<cite>Pnaxx wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heck, when I am in a tough group with lotts of DPS, I am carefully changing targets throughout the encounter to keep agro if I have 3 or more mobs on me. Like in Vaults where you have 4-5 at a time in groups. If I don't taunt/dmg through the encounter, we have a mess on our hands. Taunts are a huge part of our game...least fer me.</blockquote><p>From the pally board:</p><p>Taunts- </p><p>               <i> "What were your parents thinking when they had the likes of you! I mean come on! Me grandmother could hit harder then that." Taunts are given to the fighter at the earliest of stages in growing into that brave sir knight you have always dreamed of. Poke them in the eyes, call them names and flip them the bird, whatever it is that you can see your lovely plated cuddle bug doing should be done often. These useful combat arts are generally given a value to them that will help you to aggravate your enemy enough to stay on you instead of your trusty mage friends (agro control). These combat arts are generally on a fast recast timer and won't cost you much of your power to use. Moral of the story being to use them whenever you get the chance and as often as you possibly can. Don't waist a tool you have designed specifically to help you maintain and hold agro. It is designed for the sole purpose to help you do your job.</i></p>

[Quicksilver74]

<cite>evilgamer wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Level 71 Hammer, 264-634 damage adept 1, .5 cast time, 10 sec recast, 64 power = 25-60 threat per second / 4.4 - 10.6 threat per power.</p></blockquote><p>How low is your strength and CA mod if hammer is doing that kinda damage for you?  </p><p>The reason Ca's are better for aggro than taunts is because they get bumped up by STR, CA mod, and Crit.  Taunts get no such bonus.  </p>

[evilgamer]

<cite>Crabbok@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>evilgamer wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Level 71 Hammer, 264-634 damage adept 1, .5 cast time, 10 sec recast, 64 power = 25-60 threat per second / 4.4 - 10.6 threat per power.</p></blockquote><p>How low is your strength and CA mod if hammer is doing that kinda damage for you?  </p><p>The reason Ca's are better for aggro than taunts is because they get bumped up by STR, CA mod, and Crit.  Taunts get no such bonus.  </p></blockquote><p>No, but with AA's you essentially cut the recast timers in half.</p><p>Essentially doubling your threat per second from taunts, still making tuants the best threat per second we get.</p>

[Pnaxx]

I have no idea what gives the most hate, CA vs Taunt, but al I know is I have always needed to taunt as part of myscenario for agro control. As far as I am concerned, they both are needed. There have been times I have not taunted on like a single named mob and lost agro while dpsing on it with no taunts. So, I just can't imagine not using them on certain mob's or mobs. Some, yes, others no.

[Quicksilver74]

<p>  Well when I said don't even bother with taunts, I was exxagerating a bit.   Sure i'll use them when everything else is down, or if perfection of the maestro is up since they proc that, or to advance a heroic opportunity.   </p><p>    But as far as aggro goes, you are far far better off hitting knockout, and then going down your CA order, hitting your CAs.  Hammer and Front kick are pretty much the only CA's we have that deal less damage than boil's hate, but since 1 damage = 1 hate you get double the bang for your buck by DPSing.  Also, considering that our CA's can crit, and are affected by a debuffed mobs lower mitigation, you can get 2-3K hits from front kick and hammer.  Not to mention all of our many procs that can trigger off the hit from our CAs.  </p><p>   I'm not saying that you should remove taunts from your hotbar, but I am saying that aggro is maintained through high dps.  Taunts are no so significant that you need to prioritize them above CAs.  IMO save the taunts for when all CA's are down, or for incomming when the mob is out of CA range.  </p>

[evilgamer]

<cite>Crabbok@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>   I'm not saying that you should remove taunts from your hotbar, but I am saying that aggro is maintained through high dps.  Taunts are no so significant that you need to prioritize them above CAs.  IMO save the taunts for when all CA's are down, or for incomming when the mob is out of CA range.  </blockquote><p>I would still disagree with this, when tanking I priortize taunts.</p><p>When I pull the mobs it usually hit both my taunts on the way back the group, making sure not to aggro other mobs.  Useful since the taunts have a range.</p><p>The encounter taunt is very useful since our AOE's are relatively weak, with long cast times.</p><p> Our taunts may do less threat per cast, then some of our higher damage CA, but they can be cast way more frequently.</p><p>Our two best dps lines are front kick and hammer cause their recast is so fast.  Same with taunts.</p><p>And with 8 points in agi and 10 in you attention tree, the recast on the single target taunt is 4 seconds, which doubles the amount of threat you can throw down with it.</p><p>In addition to that our raid buff cry line adds even more effectiveness to tuants.</p><p>My gear isnt that good, I rely on my taunts just as much as my dps when tanking.  I find that even though I am in legendary/MC gear I can still keep aggro off of fabled out scouts because I use my taunts frequently and I got 20 points in the attention tree with AD3 tuants, tuant proc buff, and cry line raid buff.</p><p>Now if you got your mythical and fabled out RoK gear  you can prolly rely more on your dps, but my dps wont compare to a similary equiped scout, and not even closed to a fabled out, I have to taunt everytime they come up to keep aggro, the 4 second recast is godly, 430 threat per second from just it alone.</p>

[Dmak]

Something else to consider for keeping power is ensure you have selected in-combat power regen in your racial AAs.  While having a large power pool is nice, regeneration will save you many times solo and grouped.  And with two healers health pool or regen will not be your biggest issue.