Paladin Mythical changed feedback....

[Maveric_LOL]

<p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=422456" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=422456</a></p><p>Discuss.</p>

[Meirril]

<p>Ok, I'll bite. I searched the test forum and I couldn't find any posts on paladin epic design changes there. I also don't see any other epic's being talked about except for coercers. </p><p>So...where are you getting your information? Also posting full stats would be a benifit since not everybody here seems to have your source of information. </p><p>Also...if this is test, then this discussion should be in the test forum. Yes, most of us that bother with this board would very much like to give our opinions on this subject but the dev working on it might not see this discussion if its on the wrong board.</p>

[Meirril]

<p>I think I found what your refering to here.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=422082" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=422082</a></p><p>The coercers were helpful enough to post a link to this post in their epic discussion. Thanks!</p>

[Tames]

<p> This is what I posted on our related Epic thread (below), our concerns and feedback about the lack of avoidance (block, parry etc) havent been considered, the +100CA and "spell and combat art damage bonuses" are useless because of the ease of capping out for Crusaders.</p><p>So the answer to "do these changes improve survivability as a tank in tough situations?" Is <b>no</b> <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>There seems to be an issue in understanding that our levels of damage from spells and combat arts arent huge and its easy to cap out with decent gear. <b>There needs to be block/parry on the fabled and mythical epic NOT "spell and combat art damage bonuses".</b> </p><p>"Some of you are curious of the epic changes coming in GU47. Below is the list of preliminary changes that you will see with the update. As usual these are subject to change before the update goes live. Feel free to add in any constructive feedback you might have on the changes outlined below. - AeralikThe Truth of Marr ( Paladin )The delay is now 6 seconds.Added a damage proc to the weapon.Should now give both spell and combat art damage bonuses"</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=422082" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=422082</a></p>

[Kahling]

<p>I posted the following reply that got lost in the 30 or so pages it is now at.  Personally Aeralik would do better posting a thread in each of class boards so there isnt so much [Removed for Content] between classes, and only the classes involved post feedback about their weapon.  30 pages is to be expected on such a high profile subject:  anyhow this is what I posted:</p><p>You cant fix a class with 1 item, and nor should you. Ive posted this before but since this thread seems to be being read then : Crusader AGI line, should have a clicky at the end that swaps trample from 40% AOE melle to 40% DA so that we can offtank anything and swap between both at will. Warriors have higher DPS, this would balance tank DPS slightly. Crusader Mythicals then remove the AA restriction of it being either or and make it so that you have 40% aoe melle and 40% DA if you choose that line - this is more in line with the increased DPS the guard myth allows them. Crusader myths should also have + shield block on it rather than +spell / ca damage as these are capped with other items easilly. Paladin myth, make the pet that is cast that heals, do more damage, heal for more, and make it impossible to resist, it is riddiculous that it can be and is resisted, a better change would be that it prevents aoe for 24 seconds though when cast (and again not resisted in this guise). I am a paladin and the above changes are really me saying I want them on the Paladin Myth, but personally for DPS balance between the plate tanks i think it would be a good move for crusaders in general for the aa change and the mythical removal of aa restriction. that way it doesnt matter what OTing you throw at us, we can switch between AOE melle / DA or do both with myth. Regards Kahling </p>

[Niou]

Asking for Paladin's to put out the same damage as Warriors and Brawlers's while also maintaining their tanking and more importantly, healing ability's, is unrealistic and no Dev would ever listen to you.A Re-Design for the AGI and Wisdom lines however is needed and we do need double attack if we're ever going to be able to truly DPS on par with the other Fighter Arch Type's. All that needs to be done is to alter the line to offer a significant amount of double attack when the Crusader uses 2 Handed Weapons. That way we can still do our job's but we have the ability to adapt to a DPS role when needed, at the penalty of our tanking ability's. (As Guardians (Non Mythical) and Zerkers are able to do when they use a Buckler, but a bit more of a penalty because we are still able to heal and....whatever SK's do.As far as the Mythical is Concerned, the current dumb fire pet is next to useless and I think all Paladins agree that the increase of combat art damage and heals is just as useless, especially the CA because Crusaders cap out easily with Raid Gear, and anybody with the mythical is obviously raiding quite a bit.If SoE were to look into their plate tanks, they would quickly discover what we all already know, they are and may still be (according to some Paladins), Using the Soulfire Gladius because of the shield block. That alone should say how much is needed, their upgrading a weapon when at the same time penalizing Crusaders for using it.Dev's, if you want to help Crusaders do damage with their mythical, the proc needs to add double attack, not CA and Spell Dmg because we're all pretty much capped out. Experience the uselessness of the dumb fire and you'll discover that it needs to either be improved or removed. Hopefully you'll listen to your community.Hopefully they hear the community before the changes go live, from there, its most likely safe to say that the changes will be set in stone.<span style="color: #cc3333;"><b>Araris</b>Paladin of VA</span>

[Tames]

<p>I think you will find that the situation is even worse for the fabled epic, since the gladius out tanks it. Far more Paladins are affected by this than the few with the mythical and a change needs to be made to both. </p><p>Currently if tanking and you dont have the mythical epic, you are using the gladius and if DPS you are using 2H. Wheres the niche for the fabled epic?</p><p>In any case the solution is the same for both, give more avoidance through +Block (most favoured) or at least +parry/riposte.</p><p>The really sad thing about the additional spell/CA damage being pointless, is that it shows no understanding of Crusaders as a class, surely the Devs must have <i>someone </i>who understands what we are talking about, but it is taking forever to see some results on it or even an acknowledgement that they understand it. </p><p>At least there is some discussion going on now though it would have been better if it was posted on individual class forums for discussion to occur there.</p>

[Faelgalad]

<p>That's in my mind also. </p><p>95% of all Paladins will get the fabled Epic version. </p><p>How shaming, we will use Soulfire Gladius. Even as it's real easy to get an pick up raid to make it fabled. </p><p>My own raidcom has taken all 70+ Paladins in our Guild owning the leg. Gladius though Sanctum. I guess on the majority of all servers you can get an Pick Up Raid for Sanctum. </p><p>A T7 -> T8 Quest for the SoD Weapon would be of more use for 95% of all Paladins. And this is sad!</p><p>IF this is our class defining weapon...</p><p>it needs block on fabled and mythical version. </p><p>And change of CombatArt/Spell Damage to Double Attack. Otherwise, skip the Damage bonus and increase damage rating. </p><p>Even my Instance Paladin is close to cap and our Raid Paladin is on cap. Low-Damage-Classes need no Damage Bonus on their Class Defining equipment! We get it on the fly on all generic equipment. </p><p>Faelgalad, Raidleader Mondblut (with my Troub)</p><p>Paladin Tutor of Neumond Guild </p>

[Meirril]

<p>Unless the epic allows us to break the cap, the bonus to combat damage and/or spell damage will go to waste.</p><p>Adding just a +5 extra shield block to the fabled epic would make it an upgrade from the Soulfire Gladius. I really don't think that is unreasonable. Though, adding a 5% ripost would be more in line with a lot of the bonuses I've seen in t8.</p>

[Tames]

<p><i>You have a defined role which is tanking.  I am well aware though that guardians are far beyond everyone else in tanking especially raids.  I have said a few times recently though that we will not be making any changes in the short term.  <b>In the longer term there are some changes to enhance survivability of the non guardian fighters</b> but nothing concrete that I can commit to or comment on.  I would expect to see some of that in the fall though and perhaps some discussion at fan faire if the question is brought up.Message edited by Aeralik on 07/06/2008 13:28:59.</i> </p><p> <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=422866#4713621" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...=422866#4713621</a> </p><p>Non Guardian fighters? Thats us! </p><p>In the fullness of time of course, I just hope that our "Oh Sh*t" spells get fixed along with the Wis AA line etc and someone who knows our class does it (no more stuff like the +CA/spell capped Mythical).</p>

[Niou]

<cite>Tamesan wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><i>You have a defined role which is tanking.  I am well aware though that guardians are far beyond everyone else in tanking especially raids.  I have said a few times recently though that we will not be making any changes in the short term.  <b>In the longer term there are some changes to enhance survivability of the non guardian fighters</b> but nothing concrete that I can commit to or comment on.  I would expect to see some of that in the fall though and perhaps some discussion at fan faire if the question is brought up.Message edited by Aeralik on 07/06/2008 13:28:59.</i> </p><p> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=422866#4713621" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...=422866#4713621</a> </p><p>Non Guardian fighters? Thats us! </p><p>In the fullness of time of course, I just hope that our "Oh Sh*t" spells get fixed along with the Wis AA line etc and someone who knows our class does it (no more stuff like the +CA/spell capped Mythical).</p></blockquote>Problem is, that was posted in the Berserker forums, and that Mod/GM/Dev whatever obviously is aware of the Berserker Problem. Although that does seem to include us, whoever is in charge of reporting on the Paladin/Crusader Status seems to be asleep at the wheel. Paladin DPS has fallen behind all other fighter arch types and besides some back up healing, when we are not in the tank/OT position we don't have a very important role in the raid.While other fighter's are easily able to adapt to a DPS position, Paladin's and I can only assume ShadowKnights have no role what so ever next to emergency Lay Hands.The Answer is our lack of Double Attack. The Solution is a re-design of the AGI or WIS lines to incorporate double attack when using 2 handed weapons. It's not hard, but it's like its not being heard or even mentioned.Further proof of the lack of awareness to the Paladin/Crusader situation is our Epic/Mythical. The concerns expressed by the community judging on the first list of improvements to be made, have been completely ignored on all levels. Their updating and furthering the Class without actual knowledge of how it works in the end game setting.

[redi]

Well, I think most of the Paladins stated their unhappyness with the current version of the epic weapon. What somehow pisses me off is the schedule of aeralik that the non-guardian-fighters will be looked at in fall, what is(considering the lifetime of a game) really far in the future.It can't be, that it takes them ages to equalize all classes(concerning overall skills in the archetype).Conerning the epic fabled weapon, I think that +block would be too much to be asked, like +5 shield block would come in handy in VP+, but a rather high avoidance can be achieved with t1-t3 gear easily.