Mystics Get hit with the Nerf bat again in this expansion

[Titan-X]

Some of you may not have been around long enough to be tired of this yet, but it seems every expansion SOE and EQ2 wants to let us know how much they hate mystics in this game. Things go good for a while and just about the time our class is a good again they do something stupid to put the mystic community up in arms. Speak out people..Don't take it on the chin. Look at what they are doing to our mythical and make it known you are not going to stand for it..Good day and that is all..

[SnAke19]

very disappointing yes - through the grp limitation spirit tap will become completely useless in most of the fights ot grp normaly does -where is any chance to fill up grp when fighting adds which probably live 5 sec?and not enough the effekt itself is also weakened so it takes even longer to fill up - we don´t know the exact new numbers but even in best case I couldn´t imagine you´ll get more than probably 10% mana using it on adds - and these typicall ot-grp-fights-adds fights make up about half of all harder mobs at the moment *sign*some say our weapon like its now is overpowered - I agree the effekt of spirittap is very powerfull but we only can use it every 5 minutes while other classes epic´s have always their valuewhat you can say is that the effect works too fast at the moment - but again the normal role of us is still in the ot grp where we won´t be able to benefit at all of it in the futureand its really cheap to have a mystical weapon which is only of value in half of all fightsbut looking on the other epics its even like its now nothing compared to for example raidwide cob or a guardians bucklerline combine with a towershild and so on and these weapons don´t get any real nerve but oursmy suggestion would be to let it still work raidwide but nerve the effect per successfull attack so that there is still the chance to fill up grp completely when 2-3 goups are dpsing on the main mob for the whole duration of spirit tap - than it won´t be overpowered any more but has still its value because its always of use and not only some fights in specific rolescould only hope they overthink it or at least change the form they do the nervwhen doing it like announced our weapon will lose its speciality completely becoming from one of the best to the worst of all epics - the da proc on it isn´t that great and 30% of for example 1000wis means ony  333 more heals - its heart is spirit tap don´t destroy it !!!

[Lewizzard]

<p>1 -Aeralik Nerf your own class the Assasins before thinking of nerfing anyone - o i see never gonna happen.</p><p>2- Leave the few Mystics left alone. - This item is MYTHICAL not treasured crap it should have a MYTHICAL effect so dont screw with us.  FIX our AA lines already not screw with the one bone you have thrown to us in the last 3 expansions.  Yes we have constant power problems unless you have a dirge and an Ill in the OT group - o yeah were NEVER in the MT GROUP cause you have seriously screwed our AA lines.</p><p> 3- I say add an effect to the Mythical which makes us immune to inturrepts.  The last few weeks all I do is get inturrepted when casting on epics.  I mean WT% what mechanic got changed that I am getting inturrupted all the time now while casting?  This rarely happened before.</p><p>4- ADD a better effect to counterbalance your double uncalled for NERF BAT?  </p><p>5 - Seriously - I may quit after LU 47 and I am a long time hold out</p><p>6- Customer Service and SOE - Lousy / AoC Customer serivice awsome - go figure</p>

[Deadz]

<cite>Crucion@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>1 -Aeralik Nerf your own class the Assasins before thinking of nerfing anyone - o i see never gonna happen.</p><p>2- Leave the few Mystics left alone. - This item is MYTHICAL not treasured crap it should have a MYTHICAL effect so dont screw with us.  FIX our AA lines already not screw with the one bone you have thrown to us in the last 3 expansions.  Yes we have constant power problems unless you have a dirge and an Ill in the OT group - o yeah were NEVER in the MT GROUP cause you have seriously screwed our AA lines.</p><p> 3- I say add an effect to the Mythical which makes us immune to inturrepts.  The last few weeks all I do is get inturrepted when casting on epics.  I mean WT% what mechanic got changed that I am getting inturrupted all the time now while casting?  This rarely happened before.</p><p>4- ADD a better effect to counterbalance your double uncalled for NERF BAT?  </p><p>5 - Seriously - I may quit after LU 47 and I am a long time hold out</p><p>6- Customer Service and SOE - Lousy / AoC Customer serivice awsome - go figure</p></blockquote>I played AoC , and there customer support takes days to respond.. (6) is an entirely made up statement.

[KFizzle]

Look i hate posting here but i just want to say, please dont hurt the mystic mythical too much.I agree Spirit Tap was overpowered ... but if its hurt too much it will become almost pointless. If your gunna hurt the regen on HP and mana a lot please just add something else to the clicky too...even if its not something for the mystic (which it probably isnt considering its a 1 hander and not a 2 hander like i wished), make it like give some haste to the group too or a +CA damage for the group while the clicky is up.

[Sandain666]

<cite>Crucion@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>2- Leave the few Mystics left alone. - This item is MYTHICAL not treasured crap it should have a MYTHICAL effect so dont screw with us.  FIX our AA lines already not screw with the one bone you have thrown to us in the last 3 expansions.<b>  Yes we have constant power problems unless you have a dirge and an Ill in the OT group</b> - o yeah were NEVER in the MT GROUP cause you have seriously screwed our AA lines.</p></blockquote>Have you tried any of the new mana leak, manawell, replenishing heal items? I can't rememebr the last time I ran out of power.

[Banditman]

You do realize that Mana Leak takes your power and gives it to your target . . .

[Sandain666]

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>You do realize that Mana Leak takes your power and gives it to your target . . . </blockquote>Yes but the negative effects of Mana leak can be reduced/eliminated with careful gear choices and spell cast order.

[Bathtubtina]

<p>Mythical weapons are just that..MYTHICAL!!!!</p><p>Why mess with it at all really?  People crying on the boards about our mythical does not give you a reason to jack with the one thing that made us looked at as good again.  Shamans have dwindled down considerably and you go and do this? </p><p>I could see a little nerf..but to nerf us on two accounts is unfair and uncalled for.  </p><p>Thanks again, for messing up a good thing.  It seems you guys are getting really good at that.</p>

[Banditman]

I understand that the effect from mana leak can be mitigated, but nevertheless, the poster was saying he was having problems maintaining power, and mana leak is not a good way to maintain your own power level if you are having problems with it.

[Brook]

<cite>Fynne@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Mythical weapons are just that..MYTHICAL!!!!</p><p>Why mess with it at all really?  People crying on the boards about our mythical does not give you a reason to jack with the one thing that made us looked at as good again.  Shamans have dwindled down considerably and you go and do this? </p><p>I could see a little nerf..but to nerf us on two accounts is unfair and uncalled for.  </p><p>Thanks again, for messing up a good thing.  <b>It seems you guys are getting really good at that.</b></p></blockquote>I LOL, they have always been good at that <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Bathtubtina]

Hrmm..maybe I should have you are getting uber at it? hehe

[Sandain666]

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I understand that the effect from mana leak can be mitigated, but nevertheless, the poster was saying he was having problems maintaining power, and mana leak is not a good way to maintain your own power level if you are having problems with it.</blockquote>You are correct. Forget I said anything. Mana Leak is not a good way to maintain you own power levels.

[Ocello]

Lot of mystics have power problems because you stack up on STR and go melee.  It's the fun way to play the class, and I do the same thing.  But we get +power from Wisdom.  Theres a big difference in your power when you are equipping melee gear and healing gear.  It sucks for my mystic and my fury, who I stack with INT and is always OOP.I mean my monk gets his power from STR.  STR!!! You stack str, so you have power.  Then again, scouts get power from AGI, and it's not their biggest stat, STR is.  Who the hel knows.

[SnAke19]

<cite>Kamaala@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lot of mystics have power problems because you stack up on STR and go melee.  It's the fun way to play the class, and I do the same thing.  But we get +power from Wisdom.  Theres a big difference in your power when you are equipping melee gear and healing gear.  It sucks for my mystic and my fury, who I stack with INT and is always OOP.I mean my monk gets his power from STR.  STR!!! You stack str, so you have power.  Then again, scouts get power from AGI, and it's not their biggest stat, STR is.  Who the hel knows.</blockquote>sry but maintaining power through high stats is totally outdated - what difference does this make in real long fights? more wis/power doesn´t mean a higher regeneration rate ...in rok we have many items to leach/regenerate our power but for each we need we have to sacrifice item slots we could otherwise use to emplify our healing amountbut thats not the thing which realy hurts - what bothers me most is the fact that we got a real usefull tool which helps us to get more variable in raids (being able to overtake supporter role in maintaining power for our grp) and than now many months later it gets nerved real bad - so bad that it becomes useless in about half rok content - great ...the group limitation is in other words alone a 75% nerve in its healing/power and dmg bonuses and in some ot grp fights even like a 100% nerveand that not enough the healing and power bonuses are also reduced - on test we have atm about 50% fewer hp and about 30% fewer poweralltogether: ~87,5% lower heal /~82,5% lower powerwhat else offers our weapon? the 15% da proc which we even can´t benefit ourselfes (triggered through beneficials) - real cheap looking at the fact most melee classes already hit da cap without our buff ...the 30% from wis to heals - nothing greatthe only thing real special on our weapon was spirittap -the other effects on it look cheap compared to what other healing classes have gottenvictim of a totally overdone nerve!!!

[Scrappe]

Eh, I've concluded there's just three too many hands in the cookie jar. Mystics should be absorbed into Defilers, perhaps just defining a Shaman subclass, although labelling it Defiler seems more appropriate since they seem to be the intended Shaman. Bruisers and Monks should be combined to define a Brawler subclass or removed alltogether. Neither one is really better than the other. They flip-flop from one xpac to the next, but never really find their place in Norrath. They feign great. That's all they do that nobody can do better, which isn't enough to justify having two of them. Warlocks are a hair's breath away from needing to be absorbed into a Wizard subclass. Wizards are clearly intended to be the sorcerors of EQ2, and are generally accepted across the MMO landscape as the nuker of whatever mideil fantasy game you happen to be talking about at the moment. I can speak to several other classes that need work to justify themselves, but really all I'm talking about right now are classes that I deem as needless (due to having a duplicate counterpart or a counterpart that does everything they can do and more). I cant speak to scouts at all those as I never play them. I faulted SOE for this situation for a long time, but really I think it more stems back to original development. 24 classes is just too many (25 if the accursed Beastlord congregration has their way) for SOE to realistically support, at least according to their current financial model. As a result, some classes appear to have been intentionally ignored because there is simply no room for their hands in the Norrathian cookie jar. As it stands, it doesn't seem a possibility to combine or remove classes, so they linger, recieving only the most basic of attention. So my advice to these classes' population is to reroll or betray where applicable, or understand that this is how things are going to always be. Relaxing in that fashion does tend to ease the tension.

[Planetside]

<p>I cant belive all the negativity directed at SOE I just read that a mod hasnt nerfed this thread.</p>

[Sandain666]

<cite>Planetside wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I cant belive all the negativity directed at SOE I just read that a mod hasnt nerfed this thread.</p></blockquote>You assume anyone at SOE reads the class forums

[Swifthand]

<cite>ScrapperX wrote:</cite><blockquote>Eh, I've concluded there's just three too many hands in the cookie jar.Mystics should be absorbed into Defilers, perhaps just defining a Shaman subclass, although labelling it Defiler seems more appropriate since they seem to be the intended Shaman.Bruisers and Monks should be combined to define a Brawler subclass or removed alltogether. Neither one is really better than the other. They flip-flop from one xpac to the next, but never really find their place in Norrath. They feign great. That's all they do that nobody can do better, which isn't enough to justify having two of them.Warlocks are a hair's breath away from needing to be absorbed into a Wizard subclass. Wizards are clearly intended to be the sorcerors of EQ2, and are generally accepted across the MMO landscape as the nuker of whatever mideil fantasy game you happen to be talking about at the moment.I can speak to several other classes that need work to justify themselves, but really all I'm talking about right now are classes that I deem as needless (due to having a duplicate counterpart or a counterpart that does everything they can do and more). I cant speak to scouts at all those as I never play them.I faulted SOE for this situation for a long time, but really I think it more stems back to original development. 24 classes is just too many (25 if the accursed Beastlord congregration has their way) for SOE to realistically support, at least according to their current financial model. As a result, some classes appear to have been intentionally ignored because there is simply no room for their hands in the Norrathian cookie jar.As it stands, it doesn't seem a possibility to combine or remove classes, so they linger, recieving only the most basic of attention. So my advice to these classes' population is to reroll or betray where applicable, or understand that this is how things are going to always be. Relaxing in that fashion does tend to ease the tension. </blockquote><p>I said the same thing 3 months before the game was released. I was even in beta and created a thread asking why many of these classes were split up into two classes. There should only be 14 classes in EQ2, not 24. </p><p>Classes that should be absorbed into one class are as follows:</p><p>Bards, Druids, Shamans, Cleric, Rogue, Ranger, Enchanter, Sorcerer's, Necro, Monks, etc.. It just doesn't make sense to sp,it all these classes up by making one more evil like and the other more honorable and good. Either way, druid is a druid is a druid. ALL Druids learn and study the same lore and can learn neutral good spells and evil spells. It shouldn't be split up. Whoever decided to do this is probably fired now.</p><p>Anyway, the only classes I can see having two versions of are Paladin/Shadowknight, and Guardian/Beserker. Other than that, the rest should be absorbed into one class. </p><p>Now, what SOE SHOULD HAVE DONE 4 YEARS AGO WAS, give players the ability and freedom to choose what path and abilities their class wanted to learn. For example, under Druid there should have been two ability advancement trees labeled, "FURY" and "WARDEN" Certain abilities could have been unique based on the different path the Druid took which would eventually label the Druid as either a Fury or Warden. BUT, by combining the class into one, the Druid would recieve at least 75% of ALL abilities from what you see in today's Fury and Warden. The same could have been done to other classes.  We didn't need 24 classes SOE, lol.. If you take a look, most split classes get the same types of spells, just worded differently lol. So, you mean to tell me by giving fury's a few better damage dealing spells, a lion form, and the warden a couple different melee attacks and wolf form is enough to make two entirely different classes? hmmm,,, See what I mean?</p><p>This is honestly why I left the first time. There were to many classes that did the same thing, and not enough diversity and uniqueness with classes. EQ1's class system was designed much better and was more fun.</p><p>Anyway, I know SOE could never absorb classes into one but they could do something very special with this expansion and create a new AA Tree that is totally unique for each and every class filled with abilities and decisions that truly make us one of a kind. We like the class were playing and want to be needed in groups, raids, etc. We want to be unique and make people say, "wow you get this spell, sweeeet!! i wanna roll an alt just for those spells!!"  </p>

[Suraklin]

<cite>ScrapperX wrote:</cite><blockquote>Eh, I've concluded there's just three too many hands in the cookie jar.Mystics should be absorbed into Defilers, perhaps just defining a Shaman subclass, although labelling it Defiler seems more appropriate since they seem to be the intended Shaman.Bruisers and Monks should be combined to define a Brawler subclass or removed alltogether. Neither one is really better than the other. They flip-flop from one xpac to the next, but never really find their place in Norrath. They feign great. That's all they do that nobody can do better, which isn't enough to justify having two of them.Warlocks are a hair's breath away from needing to be absorbed into a Wizard subclass. Wizards are clearly intended to be the sorcerors of EQ2, and are generally accepted across the MMO landscape as the nuker of whatever mideil fantasy game you happen to be talking about at the moment.I can speak to several other classes that need work to justify themselves, but really all I'm talking about right now are classes that I deem as needless (due to having a duplicate counterpart or a counterpart that does everything they can do and more). I cant speak to scouts at all those as I never play them.I faulted SOE for this situation for a long time, but really I think it more stems back to original development. 24 classes is just too many (25 if the accursed Beastlord congregration has their way) for SOE to realistically support, at least according to their current financial model. As a result, some classes appear to have been intentionally ignored because there is simply no room for their hands in the Norrathian cookie jar.As it stands, it doesn't seem a possibility to combine or remove classes, so they linger, recieving only the most basic of attention. So my advice to these classes' population is to reroll or betray where applicable, or understand that this is how things are going to always be. Relaxing in that fashion does tend to ease the tension. </blockquote><p>I've said this many times on the forums also. Brawlers should be one class, Sorcerers one class, Bards one class, Enchanters one class Druids one class, Clerics one class, Shaman one class etc. Unique classes like Berserker, Guardian, Conjuror, Necromancer, Paladin, and Shadowknight can stay pretty much the same. Could probably even combine Brigand and Swashbucker into one class and keep Ranger and Assassin as is.</p><p>SOE won't do it though. Everyone would cry NGE again and leave, eventhough a change like that isn't even close to what the NGE was for SWG. The classes are so close for the opposing faction in this game its not comparable to a NGE.</p>

[Scrappe]

<cite>Vizzuussh@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ScrapperX wrote:</cite><blockquote>Eh, I've concluded there's just three too many hands in the cookie jar.Mystics should be absorbed into Defilers, perhaps just defining a Shaman subclass, although labelling it Defiler seems more appropriate since they seem to be the intended Shaman.Bruisers and Monks should be combined to define a Brawler subclass or removed alltogether. Neither one is really better than the other. They flip-flop from one xpac to the next, but never really find their place in Norrath. They feign great. That's all they do that nobody can do better, which isn't enough to justify having two of them.Warlocks are a hair's breath away from needing to be absorbed into a Wizard subclass. Wizards are clearly intended to be the sorcerors of EQ2, and are generally accepted across the MMO landscape as the nuker of whatever mideil fantasy game you happen to be talking about at the moment.I can speak to several other classes that need work to justify themselves, but really all I'm talking about right now are classes that I deem as needless (due to having a duplicate counterpart or a counterpart that does everything they can do and more). I cant speak to scouts at all those as I never play them.I faulted SOE for this situation for a long time, but really I think it more stems back to original development. 24 classes is just too many (25 if the accursed Beastlord congregration has their way) for SOE to realistically support, at least according to their current financial model. As a result, some classes appear to have been intentionally ignored because there is simply no room for their hands in the Norrathian cookie jar.As it stands, it doesn't seem a possibility to combine or remove classes, so they linger, recieving only the most basic of attention. So my advice to these classes' population is to reroll or betray where applicable, or understand that this is how things are going to always be. Relaxing in that fashion does tend to ease the tension. </blockquote><p> </p><p>I said the same thing 3 months before the game was released. I was even in beta and created a thread asking why many of these classes were split up into two classes. There should only be 14 classes in EQ2, not 24. </p><p>Classes that should be absorbed into one class are as follows:</p><p>Bards, Druids, Shamans, Cleric, Rogue, Ranger, Enchanter, Sorcerer's, Necro, Monks, etc.. It just doesn't make sense to sp,it all these classes up by making one more evil like and the other more honorable and good. Either way, druid is a druid is a druid. ALL Druids learn and study the same lore and can learn neutral good spells and evil spells. It shouldn't be split up. Whoever decided to do this is probably fired now.</p><p>Anyway, the only classes I can see having two versions of are Paladin/Shadowknight, and Guardian/Beserker. Other than that, the rest should be absorbed into one class. </p><p>Now, what SOE SHOULD HAVE DONE 4 YEARS AGO WAS, give players the ability and freedom to choose what path and abilities their class wanted to learn. For example, under Druid there should have been two ability advancement trees labeled, "FURY" and "WARDEN" Certain abilities could have been unique based on the different path the Druid took which would eventually label the Druid as either a Fury or Warden. BUT, by combining the class into one, the Druid would recieve at least 75% of ALL abilities from what you see in today's Fury and Warden. The same could have been done to other classes.  We didn't need 24 classes SOE, lol.. If you take a look, most split classes get the same types of spells, just worded differently lol. So, you mean to tell me by giving fury's a few better damage dealing spells, a lion form, and the warden a couple different melee attacks and wolf form is enough to make two entirely different classes? hmmm,,, See what I mean?</p><p>This is honestly why I left the first time. There were to many classes that did the same thing, and not enough diversity and uniqueness with classes. EQ1's class system was designed much better and was more fun.</p><p>Anyway, I know SOE could never absorb classes into one but they could do something very special with this expansion and create a new AA Tree that is totally unique for each and every class filled with abilities and decisions that truly make us one of a kind. We like the class were playing and want to be needed in groups, raids, etc. We want to be unique and make people say, "wow you get this spell, sweeeet!! i wanna roll an alt just for those spells!!"  </p><p> </p></blockquote> That is sooo on the money, but as the above poster mentioned, people would cry "NGE!! NGE!! NGE!! SWG!! SOE!! RUN!!" Normally, I wouldnt have lumped crusaders and summoners together for combined classes, but if there had been evil-VS-good advancement trees rather than duplicated spell lineups, that would have simplified so very very much.

[Gisallo]

<cite>Vizzuussh@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I said the same thing 3 months before the game was released. I was even in beta and created a thread asking why many of these classes were split up into two classes. There should only be 14 classes in EQ2, not 24. </p><p>Classes that should be absorbed into one class are as follows:</p><p>Bards, Druids, Shamans, Cleric, Rogue, Ranger, Enchanter, Sorcerer's, Necro, Monks, etc.. It just doesn't make sense to sp,it all these classes up by making one more evil like and the other more honorable and good. Either way, druid is a druid is a druid. ALL Druids learn and study the same lore and can learn neutral good spells and evil spells. It shouldn't be split up. Whoever decided to do this is probably fired now.</p><p>Anyway, the only classes I can see having two versions of are Paladin/Shadowknight, and Guardian/Beserker. Other than that, the rest should be absorbed into one class. </p><p>Now, what SOE SHOULD HAVE DONE 4 YEARS AGO WAS, give players the ability and freedom to choose what path and abilities their class wanted to learn. For example, under Druid there should have been two ability advancement trees labeled, "FURY" and "WARDEN" Certain abilities could have been unique based on the different path the Druid took which would eventually label the Druid as either a Fury or Warden. BUT, by combining the class into one, the Druid would recieve at least 75% of ALL abilities from what you see in today's Fury and Warden. The same could have been done to other classes.  We didn't need 24 classes SOE, lol.. If you take a look, most split classes get the same types of spells, just worded differently lol. So, you mean to tell me by giving fury's a few better damage dealing spells, a lion form, and the warden a couple different melee attacks and wolf form is enough to make two entirely different classes? hmmm,,, See what I mean?</p><p>This is honestly why I left the first time. There were to many classes that did the same thing, and not enough diversity and uniqueness with classes. EQ1's class system was designed much better and was more fun.</p><p>Anyway, I know SOE could never absorb classes into one but they could do something very special with this expansion and create a new AA Tree that is totally unique for each and every class filled with abilities and decisions that truly make us one of a kind. We like the class were playing and want to be needed in groups, raids, etc. We want to be unique and make people say, "wow you get this spell, sweeeet!! i wanna roll an alt just for those spells!!"  </p></blockquote><p>(disclaimer I am just leveling a mystic so am a little new, talking largely with the experience of an 80 Ranger)Well I think I read somewhere prior to Beta that originally, even on PvE, SOE wanted Qeynos and Freeport faction to have meaning alla WoW.  They decided against it (probably to differentiate the game) but kept the class structure this original plan (in their minds) required.</p><p>As for the Mythical, there are ones that are clearly OP'd (um HELLO Guardians) but since guardians are THE most common tank class they will always get more love.  I think this issue though highlights the biggest problem this game currently has though.  Raid vs non-Raid.  </p><p>I can think of no raid guild that has half a brain and knows how to build a raid force that would have had issue with the mythical as it stood.  The delay on the nerfed ability, for the most part, compensated for its rather impressive effect, necessary impressiveness because the dang thing is a MYTHICAL.</p><p>But just as Rangers, zerkers and other classes are said to be "fine" due to non-raid numbers and soloability, I am sure people who will NEVER see VP and thus never see a Mythical, read what it could do and then yelled "THATS SO OP!!!", because as I said I can't think of any raider that would have said it  (with the exceptions of those who blame their gear for bad playing).  Rangers may have said "umm hey can you unnerf our bow" but the only mythical I can think of that could use a nerf is the the Guardian, since it is CLEARLY over the top as opposed to the other Warrior mythicals.   The priest Mythicals were pretty well in line when you take into account how often something can be done with what is done at that time.</p><p>I think this game needs to decide what its going to be.  Until it has a firm direction its going to be a mess.  You could see the hate with Kunark..."there's too much solo stuff" from the raiders/hard core players.  "The instances are too hard and require specialized classses" from the casual/non-raiders.   They tried to meet in the middle again, with having fabled as well as mythical but still looks like there is hate at play.  </p>

[Oakum]

<cite>ScrapperX wrote:</cite><blockquote>Eh, I've concluded there's just three too many hands in the cookie jar.Mystics should be absorbed into Defilers, perhaps just defining a Shaman subclass, although labelling it Defiler seems more appropriate since they seem to be the intended Shaman.Bruisers and Monks should be combined to define a Brawler subclass or removed alltogether. Neither one is really better than the other. They flip-flop from one xpac to the next, but never really find their place in Norrath. They feign great. That's all they do that nobody can do better, which isn't enough to justify having two of them.Warlocks are a hair's breath away from needing to be absorbed into a Wizard subclass. Wizards are clearly intended to be the sorcerors of EQ2, and are generally accepted across the MMO landscape as the nuker of whatever mideil fantasy game you happen to be talking about at the moment.I can speak to several other classes that need work to justify themselves, but really all I'm talking about right now are classes that I deem as needless (due to having a duplicate counterpart or a counterpart that does everything they can do and more). I cant speak to scouts at all those as I never play them.I faulted SOE for this situation for a long time, but really I think it more stems back to original development. 24 classes is just too many (25 if the accursed Beastlord congregration has their way) for SOE to realistically support, at least according to their current financial model. As a result, some classes appear to have been intentionally ignored because there is simply no room for their hands in the Norrathian cookie jar.<b>As it stands, it doesn't seem a possibility to combine or remove classes, so they linger, recieving only the most basic of attention. So my advice to these classes' population is to reroll or betray where applicable, or understand that this is how things are going to always be. Relaxing in that fashion does tend to ease the tension.</b> </blockquote><p>To combine classes is not the answer, period. IF they did, then they should just be combined into 3 different ones, tank, healer, and DPS. </p><p>Either way 3/4s of the the players would quit. I would. If I wanted to play a fury after almost 4 years of playing a warden, I would roll a fury.</p><p>The problem is that most players who complain about a certain skill or spell that the opposite class has, wants it for themselves, but doesnt want to actually change a class or accept any of the drawbacks of that class like defilers who do not have any CA spec for example. </p><p>I dont want to nuke like a fury, let my melee damage come close to equaling a fury's nuke damage though and it should be easily above a plate or chain wearing healer since druids traded leather for dps. Then you definite have 2 different sublclasses that are not duplicates of each other for example. </p><p>Combines classes equals the end of EQ2 in most peoples minds. It would be equal to or worse then NGE since it would end the game as people knew it, make the lore of the game worthless, screw up racial balances, remove a lot of the skill elements of playing a class, and just not be fun any more. </p><p>The best answer is to post in forums for changes to your subclass that do not duplicate your other eubclasses abilities rather then destroy the game with class combinings. </p>

[Gisallo]

<cite>Oakum wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>To combine classes is not the answer, period. IF they did, then they should just be combined into 3 different ones, tank, healer, and DPS. </p><p>Either way 3/4s of the the players would quit. I would. If I wanted to play a fury after almost 4 years of playing a warden, I would roll a fury.</p><p>The problem is that most players who complain about a certain skill or spell that the opposite class has, wants it for themselves, but doesnt want to actually change a class or accept any of the drawbacks of that class like defilers who do not have any CA spec for example. </p><p>I dont want to nuke like a fury, let my melee damage come close to equaling a fury's nuke damage though and it should be easily above a plate or chain wearing healer since druids traded leather for dps. Then you definite have 2 different sublclasses that are not duplicates of each other for example. </p><p>Combines classes equals the end of EQ2 in most peoples minds. It would be equal to or worse then NGE since it would end the game as people knew it, make the lore of the game worthless, screw up racial balances, remove a lot of the skill elements of playing a class, and just not be fun any more. </p><p>The best answer is to post in forums for changes to your subclass that do not duplicate your other eubclasses abilities rather then destroy the game with class combinings. </p></blockquote><p>I agree with much of what you said, but think that one thing you said is a reason for a lot of the nerfs certain classes see, or at least the complaint for nerfs from other classes  </p><p>"it should b easily above plate or chain wearing healer since druids traded leather for dps."</p><p>I don't think any class is that simple.  Yes Druids wear leather, but classes are more than mitigation and dps.  Admittedly I deleated my warden around lvl 40, but as I recall the heals had more "ooomph" and were cast far faster than Shamans (haven't played a plate so I can't speak to them).  Also if I remember correctly there are more sustained/long term buffs that druids on the whole can cast.</p><p>Now yes Shamans have wards etc and this serves as a good balance for the healing issue, but I would still say that druids are "better" healers if you just look at raw damage "mitigated" while Shaman's are more efficient in terms of lower power cost to cast their "equivilent" abilities.  Thing is though they will still not "mitigate" as much damage as a druid.</p><p>Now I am not trying to start an argument here as to which is the "better" healing class.  I'm just trying to say that classes are more than just armor and dps.  You take (or should at least) into account everything a class does, healing, utility, buffing, etc as well as what armor you wear and what damage you can do. </p>

[Sandain666]

Good Lord people! You don't have to quote a WHOLE post if you ae just going to comment on a portion of it! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Shadow9]

On the topic of combined classes as brigand and swashie for example. If SOE was to conduct a pole about Beastlord popularity or any other very popular EQ1 class, IMO Beastlord would be on the top of the list. If SOE wants to increase it's user base, perhaps giving EQ2 players what they want instead of ignoring us, might be a better idea. As it is now, its Seems that Assassins for example seem to get missed by the " in the name of balance" nerf bat. Ask your guild Ranger what they think about the Dev in charge. Maybe combining some of these classes isnt a bad idea. Behave, talk among yourself. Mystic on hold again.

[Ceolus]

<p>Clearly you haven't played on a PvP server where exiles (who have all the classes at their hands, whereas Qeynos only has good classes, Freeport only has evil classes) are basically the only "faction" that can raid t8 all the way..mythical class weapons in particular are a pain. Maybe 2 guilds on my Q side, that I've seen, have gotten the class weapons a handful of times..whereas almost every exile has their mythical. That's why SOE is introducing LU48 for pvp servers in which all classes are available on both sides..due to extremely overpowered exiles. Obviously both subclasses of (mostly) each class are needed or are special in their own way. It's just not as apparent until you know what you're missing.They of course, theoretically, could combine classes and make it work but to do that would take extreme changes in all spells/CAs and it's just an unrealistic task to take on when you have bigger issues at hand. Would have to deal with even more overpowered/underpowered complaints as SOE would once again need to balance classes as well as adjust raid mobs.</p><p>As for mystics, I haven't really read up on the changes they are making. Is it going to take effect in the upcoming expansion? If so there is still time for them to change their minds or nerf other mythicals as well. I can understand why this would really tick PvE server mystics off, but if you're on PvP it's a huge blow..your mythical can make a huge difference. If yours is lame and you're against a guy with a much better mythical, it doesn't matter how good you are as a player =.</p>

[Rayche]

I haven't seen a post containing any proposed changes for the Mystic class at all, nor am I aware that they are even looking at the Mystic class.I hope they are, but I've seen nothing.Is there such a thread/post by the devs?

[Banditman]

There is nothing imminent that is Mystic specific.

[Cybin]

--SONY, Please read what these people are saying and stop allowing the posts of other classes determine the aim of your nerf bat!Look at the raw data, why is there 100% more leather wearing healers than Mystics? Because people know what the uber classes are and that type of class is what gets created. Your nerf bat has no solid reason to be swinging at the Mystic class. 

[Banditman]

Who is getting nerfed?  I don't feel nerfed.

[Titan-X]

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Who is getting nerfed?  I don't feel nerfed.</blockquote>lol @ 3 months later ;p

[Verrie77]

<p>I dont feel nerfed either.</p><p>If things stay as it looked like it will be then i have the feelign we are getting some love this time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I like it !</p>