Monk Gear for Non-Raiders (DPS and Tank roles), Take II [Archive]

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Caethre

06-17-2008, 08:42 AM

Monk Gear for Non-Raiders (DPS and Tank roles), Take IIMy objective:To set up my monk to be as strong as is possible as a grouping character, specifically for heroic group content. This is so as to be able to fill both DPS and Tank roles in instance and dungeon groups.My purpose in this post, is to seek further ideas for possible improvements from those already further along this path, and to pass on what I have been aiming for myself to those who are following the path behind me. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Primary Assumptions:No raiding (at all, ever). Therefore, no access whatsoever to No-Drop raid gear (I dislike the concept of "buying loot rights" in content I am not hunting in). Assume that most or all members of all groups are similarly geared (ie reasonably efficient and skilled but also are non-raiding players), and that the majority of groups will be pick-up groups (indeed, Lorianna acquired almost everything she currently has in pick-up groups).Current situation:DPS Gear Set (Default Set):Chest: Sandscrawler Vest (RE2 Quest), with the +7 all stats adornment.Legs: Sokokar Hide Breeches (broker), with +16 STR adornment.Head: Sathaz's Don Li (broker, common), with +100 power adornment.Shoulders: Unailing Shoulderpads of Zeng'Tcho (Chelsith), with +100 Health adornment.Forearms: Broken Toe Bracers (RE2 Quest), with +77/+77/+77 mitigation adornment.Hands: Ironhide Gloves of Brute Force (Drusella in Maidens), with +16 AGI adornment.Boots: Boots of No Deliberation (sisters in maidens), with +16 AGI adornment.Waist: Sarnak Utility Belt (faction belt from Sarnak in Kunzar Jungle)Cloak: Sebilisian Beserker Cloak (broker)Weapon1: Hand of Serenity (fabled "epic" ), with +6 Defence fabled adornment.Weapon2: Ryjesium Forged Knuckles (fabled drop from COA), with +3% riposte fabled adornment.Ranged: Boar's Meat Satchel (RE2 common trash drop), with +10dps fabled T7 adornment.Charm1: Riliss Chicken Foot (Crafted)Charm2: Unlucky Horseshoe (Sebilis named drop / Broker).Wrist1: Tynnonium Shackle (Monks quest in Kunzar Jungle), with +77/+77/+77 mitigation adornment.Wrist2: Wristwrap of the Culinary Apprentice (Chelsith quest reward), with +77/+77/+77 mitigation adornment.Finger1: Band of Thuuga (fabled ring from solo quest in Fens), with +100hp adornment.Finger2: Pristine Imbued Tynnonium Band of Strength (Crafted), with +100hp adornment.Ear1: Hoop of Burgo (RE2 Epic drop)Ear2: Assassin's Stud (COA/Sebilis trash drop)Neck: Ganak's Torque (fabled drop from VOES), with +12 DPS legendary adornment.Tanking Gear (swap out from the default set to these items):Chest: Gi of the Jarsath Swiftail (sisters in Maidens), with the +7 all stats adornment.Shoulders: Dragonskin Sleeves (broker), with +100 Health adornment.Forearms: Centred Bracers of Diversion (Riliss faction item), with +77/+77/+77 mitigation adornment.Hands: Sebilite Scale Gloves (Sebilis / broker), with +16 AGI adornment.Waist: Warlord's Girdle of Anger (Veksar, last named)Cloak: Cloak of Netted Kelp (Veksar, last named) Ranged: Stinky Satchel (RE2 common trash drop), with +10dps fabled T7 adornment.Charm2: Scale of the Leviathan (Chelsith quest reward).Wrist1: Nax's Bracelet of Icy Heat (some solo quest), with +77/+77/+77 mitigation adornment.Wrist2: Hardened Clay Bracelet (broker), with +77/+77/+77 mitigation adornment.Finger2: Dark Chitin Ring (broker), with +70hp adornment.Ear1: Earring of the Wastes Hunter (JW Quest reward)Ear2: Incarnadine Earring (Chardok Queen)Neck: Danak Essence Vial Necklace (Crafted), with +12 DPS legendary adornment.Current plans:(1) The Shackles of the Court (Wrist item) from Court of Korukust would also be wonderful for the tanking set, to upgrade that Nax's bracelet. However, getting people to go to CoKorukust post-nerf is very hard, it seems.(2) The tank set ring is Tier7, so can only have a +70hp adornment on it. The Ranged items (both sets) have Tier7 +10dps adorns rather than T8 +12 dps ones, since the fabled T8 adorns are rather pricey.(3) I've tried and rejected a few other items as inferior. For example, I purchased the Trakanosaur leggings, and picked up the Chelsith legs too, but both are not quite as good for tanking as the above (and nowhere near as good for DPS). Similarly I rejected the Deklium Cudgel, preferring the +4 DPS of the Knuckles.(4) Masters. I've managed to get 25/27 of the level 71-80 CAs at Master. It is slow and costly! The remaining two are AdeptIII of course.Where from here?Actually, apart from the few plans above, I don't know, LOL.Any (non-raiding) suggestions would be of interest. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />ADDENDUM: Added upgrade to DPS Gear (Ranged Slot) - Boar's Meat Stachel (from broker)ADDENDUM2: Updated with *some* Runnyeye2 gear.ADDENDUM3: Added some Veksar gear.

Ferous

06-17-2008, 06:53 PM

Some thoughts... Tank modeI have a hard time giving up my drakescale gorget (<a href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/1235376320" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/1235376320</a>) versus Nax's Bracelet of Icy Heat (<a href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/-863578747" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/-863578747</a>). 1% mitigation versus 4 deflection, essentially. Its from a raid but available on the broker.Skullcap of the Reet Knight (<a href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/-512249947" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/-512249947</a>) would definitely be a better headpiece (blue shineys).Skyrider Utility Belt (<a href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/-984423268" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/-984423268</a>) would be an upgrade to the sash. Thick Leather Apron (<a href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/899373525" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/899373525</a>) also looks better to me.DPSYour "ranged" must be able to be upgraded. Satchel of Lifebending is relatively rare (from epic x2 but can be on broker). Probably something else out there, too.Skullcap of the Reet Knight is better but you have your set to worry about.Partially Devoured Headwrap (<a href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/1948586430)%20is" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/1948586430)%20is</a> probably slightly better but your set would be more of a worry on this "trade".

circusgirl

06-18-2008, 01:54 AM

As I recall there's an excellent ranged weapon from the Skleross faction merchants. Don't remember the name, but it has a +dps on it and as a result is what I have Vinka carrying around.

Fascin

06-19-2008, 05:40 PM

Yes speaking of ranged items, I saw a nice notrade ranged item drop from the 2nd named in the new Runnyeye (the eye poking champion lol) I cant remember the name but it had +4 defense and +4 parry as well as some other stats. Very nice tanking ranged item. So hopefully some new upgrades coming to us non-raiding Monks! Peace

Caethre

06-20-2008, 06:55 PM

OOC.Thanks for the ideas Kerg, I'll certainly be looking into those. Only tonight I spotted a DPS-gear range slot item on the broker, something called "Boar's Meat Satchel", ( <a href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/857206278" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/857206278</a> ), though that screenshot on the site is out of date because the actual item ( aITEM 857206278 -1669112782:[Boar's Meat Satchel]/a ) has +35 combat art damage as well.Still, it's an improvement. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Turb

06-24-2008, 08:15 PM

I think you've gone about as far as you can gearwise without raiding, unless there's cool new stuff in RE2.

circusgirl

07-06-2008, 09:46 PM

I'd add the followingTank SetGrunblig's Coil (Final named in RE) Broken Toe Shiny (RE)Boar's Tooth Bauble (RE)RE fighter's cloak (gas boss in RE)The Grunblig's Coil and Broken Toe Shiny are particularly nice tank items. The Fighter cloak has a big +haste on it, so it may not be all that good for DPSing when you'll be in offensive stance and have over 100% haste anyway, but it'll let you tank in defensive and still attack with massive haste. Also, there's a +12 DPS adornment for the ranged weapon as well. Its obscenely expensive, but the T7 one, which is +10 DPS will only cost you 6pp or so in materials.

circusgirl

07-06-2008, 09:59 PM

Wurm Hide Cinture looks like a better belt than the skorpokis belt as well, though I don't know where it drops. Its not no-trade though, so might be findable on the broker. Jarsath Wrists also look nice, think they may be from Maidens though I'm not sure.Anyone know of a good set of Pants? I'm not keeping 3 of the Quarrelsome set, so I'de like to ditch the pants for an upgrade.

Khandor

07-08-2008, 12:38 PM

I'm really happy to see this post, because I currently solo and do group based stuff at level 80, my guild not quite reaching the raiding status. I personally prefer to dps and I'm glad I made a lot of similar choices in gear, I'm just missing a few items from the dps list. Though for ranged I use the Draconic Pouch of Fangs, but I think that was from when I used to raid.Anyways, what I wanted to say, is that I am absolutely HORRIBLE at knowing what adornment to search for on the broker. I see everyone posting the stats, but not the names of the actual adornments. Since I can't just type in +100 health adornment, is there any way to know what the name of each adornment is?EDIT: Wow, found some of the adornments.. I need a way to get money faster... Jesus they're expensive. >.<

Ferous

07-08-2008, 04:35 PM

This is the most user-friendly site I have seen to look-up adornments (and materials needed): <a href="http://adornments.h0b0.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://adornments.h0b0.net/</a>

Khandor

07-08-2008, 08:42 PM

Ah, thanks. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

circusgirl

08-08-2008, 12:53 AM

More stuff you probably want:Tank GearIncarnadine Earring (Queen in Chardok)Stinky Satchel (Gaspassy in RE2)

Caethre

08-29-2008, 04:41 AM

OOC.Thank you Vinka!I've actually picked up a few things since the last time I posted, and noted a few more, and hence updated the first post.- Chardok drop: Incarnadine Earring (finally!!)- RE2 quest items: Sandscrawler Vest and Broken Toe Bracers - RE2 drops: Hoop of Burgo, Stinky Satchel- Broker items: Sokokar Hide Breeches, Sathaz's Don Li, Unlucky Horseshoe, Hardened Clay Bracelet The other things in RE2 that you mentioned that I haven't seen so far are:Boar Toothed Bauble : <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/1118917795Broken" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/1118917795" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/1118917795</a></a> Broken Toe Shiny : <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/738071135Grunblig's" target="_blank">http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/738071135</a>Grunblig's Coil : <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/616228417" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/616228417" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/616228417</a></a> Cloak of the Grungetalon Champion : <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/-1275686040" target="_blank">http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/-1275686040</a>

JinjAB

09-08-2008, 08:53 AM

Loving this thread Lorianna <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I wanted to ask about your choice of DPS chest. Chest: Sandscrawler Vest (RE2 Quest), with the +7 all stats adornment.I thought that the item you use for tanking [Chest: Gi of the Jarsath Swiftail (sisters in Maidens), with the +7 all stats adornment.] is the DPS item most classes were after (I know the scouts in my guild use it)?Could you give me your insights for choosing the Sandscrawler?Thanks

Caethre

09-13-2008, 11:03 PM

<cite>Jinj@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I wanted to ask about your choice of DPS chest. Chest: Sandscrawler Vest (RE2 Quest), with the +7 all stats adornment.I thought that the item you use for tanking [Chest: Gi of the Jarsath Swiftail (sisters in Maidens), with the +7 all stats adornment.] is the DPS item most classes were after (I know the scouts in my guild use it)?Could you give me your insights for choosing the Sandscrawler?Thanks</blockquote>OOC.Hi Jinj <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />It's really close, and I have looked at this again, and I am still unsure which is actually better (and no, I have not parsed against the Kunzar Jungle wall, maybe I should, lol). Looking exactly at the gains and losses when moving from the Gi to the Vest, they are:Gains: +3 Damage Per Second, +1 Double Attack, +25 CA Damage, 7 STR, 13 AGI, ~1400 ResistsLosses: +4 Melee Crit Chance, 35 STA, 60 Health, 2 MitigationFor the DPS role, the [35 STA, 60 Health, 2 Mitigation] losses are not important at all, so it is all about whether that +4 Melee Crit Chance is worth losing, to acquire the list of gains. I won't pretend to know the details of combat mechanics, but I've opted for the Vest for DPS for now,as the gains list looks just about worth it. I might be wrong, tho. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Caethre

09-13-2008, 11:22 PM

OOC.Picked up three new non-raid items which are worthy of mention here:(1) Tanking Set, Waist Item - Warlord's Girdle of AngerThis dropped from the last named in Veksar. With +3 Parry, +4 Defence, +150 Health, +40 STA as well as +36 STR and +2 Melee Crit on it, it's a nice item. It must be noted that on pure Mitigation terms, it is worse than the Dragonscale Sash (the level 68 belt from the Claymore line), since the latter has +7 Defence and +142 vs Crush/Slash/Pierce as well, but all the other gains make this feel like an upgrade even for tanking. Tho maybe not everyone would agree, I don't know.(2) Tanking Set, Cloak - Cloak of Netted KelpAlso came from the last named in Veksar. This item +2 Defence, +150 Health and +25 STA, as well as +2 Double Attack, +3 Melee Crit, +25 STR, +100 Power and some resists. A big upgrade on what I had before anyway (but still not as good as the Runnyeye2 cloak).(3) DPS Set, Cloak - Sebilisian Beserker Cloak.I believe this is better than the Cloak of Netted Kelp above for a DPS role. It has +2 Melee Crit, +5 Damage Per Second, +40 CA Damage, +6 Crushing, +6 slashing, +42 STR, +125 Power and +25% Haste. It has the penalty of -8 Defence (making it poor for tanking).

circusgirl

09-22-2008, 09:42 PM

Tank legs: Pufferfish Pantaloons of Pummelling35 str, 25sta, 40 agi130hp, 145 power+984 vs. divine, +615 vs. poison+1dps, 368 mitigationHigher avoidance and mit than the sokokar leggings, though overall they're definetely the inferior of the two.

Mimnousa

09-25-2008, 11:57 AM

Ok now here is a few observations I have seen on this post. For starters Crits are number 1 priority so why in the heck are you using the sandscrawler over the Jarsath Gi for dps? Odds are you dont run ACT but you are hurting your dps in your dps gear by doing that. For a pure dps build on a monk with no access to raid gear or broker here is what you should do.Head aITEM 1903174657 175074201:Sathaz's Dou Li/aBP aITEM 1116516438 -399186902:Gi of the Jarsath Swiftail/aShoulder aITEM 1512063666 1462086122:Grim Shoulder Pads/aForearm aITEM 787655560 -576636094:Broken Toe Bracers/aHands aITEM 2032088448 -1236386637:Sebilite Scale Gloves/aLegs aITEM 1390201738 -865582560:Firefury Leggings/aFeet aITEM 1769611649 -944623124:Boots of No Deliberation/aCloak aITEM 129433205 -1523319676:Cloak of Netted Kelp/aNeck aITEM 717281040 -596555433:Ganak's Torque/aEar aITEM 1482634583 649889865:Mark of the Ankexfen/aEar aITEM 1118917795 1620967817:Boar Toothed Bauble/aWrist aITEM -1818008858 1185972183:Wristwrap of the Culinary Apprentice/aWrist aITEM -415326169 -754054114:Gahdash's Bangle/aRing aITEM -1849211307 1235816896:Band of Thuuga/aRing with a low dps mod group use a str ring mc but when with a high dps mod buff use this ringRing aITEM 1703106817 307099007:Wind Worn Ring/aWaist aITEM -853089018 -808360106:Chieftain's Baldric/aMonks really do not need a haste item as is with offensive stance everburing and the rw buff monks are over 110 Haste self buffed. Basic rule really for monks as of gear is this Crit>DA>CA damage. The "scout" trio from re2 makes this a total when wearing 3 pieces 9 crit 2 DA 120 CA damage with the bonuses included. That averages out per piece 3 crit and 40 ca per piece. Also though adornments you can get a plus 90 CA so if its ca or crit/da on an item remember you have that as an option.

Caethre

09-25-2008, 01:19 PM

<cite>Mimnousa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>For starters Crits are number 1 priority so why in the heck are you using the sandscrawler over the Jarsath Gi for dps? Odds are you dont run ACT but you are hurting your dps in your dps gear by doing that.</blockquote>OOC.I've already answered why I chose the Vest over the Gi for pure DPS when I was asked this earlier in the thread. I said at the time that I think it's close, and that it is just a preference. However, your phrasing suggests you consider it a "no brainer" to choose the Gi. Do you care to explain "why in the heck" you believe the Gi is so significantly better than the Vest for pure DPS?By the way, if you had made a bet on your odds, you'd have lost - I run ACT all the time. However, I have not carried out detailed parse comparisons between otherwise identical builds with the two pieces, but simply swapping them and testing on a few mobs, I noticed no real difference, certainly not enough to suggest there is any significant difference. If you have, please present the data. I am quite ready to be proven wrong, and would adjust my build accordingly.<cite>Mimnousa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ear aITEM 1482634583 649889865:Mark of the Ankexfen/a</blockquote>I looked at your suggested build, and most of those pieces I either own or know about, and I am content at the moment with the choices made based on what I currently own. However, this one I did not know about, and it looks lovely, I will have to look into it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><cite>Mimnousa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Monks really do not need a haste item as is with offensive stance everburing and the rw buff monks are over 110 Haste self buffed.</blockquote>As I understand it (and I may be incorrect here, but it is what I have been told by several other monks), any haste over 100% (up to 200%) does count, but it is scaled down by a factor of four, so that a haste rating of 200% actually has the effect of 125%. Therefore, I will still choose the Sebilisian Beserker cloak over the Netted Kelp for pure DPS, not only for the haste, but also for the +slash / +crush, etc. Certainly for soloing, when haste is not over 100%, the Sebilisian cloak wins hands down.<cite>Mimnousa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Monks really do not need a haste item as is with offensive stance everburing and the rw buff monks are over 110 Haste self buffed. Basic rule really for monks as of gear is this Crit>DA>CA damage.</blockquote>I know some folks advocate +Crit heavily, but seldom do they actually explain the reason for that strong advocacy - certainly I have never seen anyone present any data. I admit, I do not rate +Crit quite as highly as some others do - it's good, but I tend to see it as Crit~=DA~=DPS >> CA. If someone cares to explain the detailed combat mechanics here, preferably with data to back it up, I'm sure many of the rest of us would love to read it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Obviously +CA damage is much weaker, as it starts to cap so easily, even for us non-raiders.<cite>Mimnousa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The "scout" trio from re2 makes this a total when wearing 3 pieces 9 crit 2 DA 120 CA damage with the bonuses included. That averages out per piece 3 crit and 40 ca per piece. Also though adornments you can get a plus 90 CA so if its ca or crit/da on an item remember you have that as an option. </blockquote>That's really nice. That is, if one can ever get all these pieces *chuckle*.

Mimnousa

09-25-2008, 06:31 PM

Ok going to break this down for you a bit more in detail. 1st question is why is crit so valuable? Well for starters Crits effect everything combat arts MH OH Melee based procs. DA only effects your main hand weapon. Where you are not raiding you will not have access to your Mythical or other high end brawler weapons so thus puts more of a value on crits as Combat arts mean more. Also Monks cap easy with Plus CA so really dont need alot of it. Now lets compare the 2 items the Gi vs the sandscrawler. plus 5 dps mod and one DA ((sandscrawler))vs 2 dps mod and 4 crit((gi)). 1 dps mod doesnt not even come close to 1% crit. you would have to give up about at least 3 if not more dps mod per one point of crit. There is a reason why nearly every scout in game wants that gi and can rightfully justify needing it. Also see the same thing on the pants you using the sokokar over the fire fury 3 dps mod doesnt come anywhere close to 2 crit 55 ca ((also the 55 spell does help racial spell attacks and dragonbreath))Now lets look at haste yes the hard cap is 200% but also here is the the thing .... solo you will yeah have the tanking re2 cloak on ((although i solo in offensive as is)) but for tanking where i would have to drop down into spider stance I would use the fabled re2 cloak over the kelp one. (( also better defensive stats)) Also haste in one form or another is very easy to get in a group. Alot of classes buff it and in general in a dps role more haste on a monk is useless. Now you could have a dry group i guess and it may depending on other buffs be worth it but in many more times then not the kelp cloak is gonna result in more dps then the beserker cloak.If you need a haste item get the chokadai collar belt and use that in combination with the kelp cloak over the beserker cloak and the faction belt. Also then allows when you are in a group to put on either the faction belt or the re2 belt in a haste buffing group. Also Accuracy buffs are ok but unless you are constantly fighting 85 or higher mobs really what you self buff in offensive stance is enough and once again that is a buff you can easily get in groups. In general i live by this rule 1crit roughly equals 1.5DA equals 45 CA damage equals 4 dps mod.

xKHONSx

09-26-2008, 12:58 AM

<cite>Mimnousa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>DA only effects your main hand weapon. Where you are not raiding you will not have access to your Mythical or other high end brawler weapons so thus puts more of a value on crits as Combat arts mean more. </blockquote>You can double attack off main hand or off hand weapons, so it actually makes DA even less effective if you have a weak offhand weapon.

BChizzle

09-26-2008, 04:56 AM

Seems ok

Superjoint

09-26-2008, 04:07 PM

Hmmmm, tried puttin on the +100 power to Dou Li cap and can't do it!

Superjoint

09-26-2008, 04:38 PM

Found NPC

Caethre

09-26-2008, 06:03 PM

<cite>Mimnousa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite> <blockquote>In general i live by this rule 1crit roughly equals 1.5DA equals 45 CA damage equals 4 dps mod. </blockquote>OOC.OK, I see this statement, but have you any reference to a mathematical explanation of why this might be true (with proof?).In an attempt to look for proof myself, I just carried out a simple test just comparing the cloaks you mentioned.I just visited the training wall in Kunzar Jungle to do some comparative parsing. I was on my own (no external buffs), and in my DPS gear (Sebilisian Beserker Cloak) and self-dps buffs (offensive stance). I stood before the wall and switched on auto-attack, and thereafter did not move or cast any combat arts. I "killed" the wall five times, and averaged the ACT parse over these five. I looked only at pure melee damage (I ignored Crane Twirl procs and Serene Strike from the fabled epic procs), that is, just crush and slash damage (from my main and offhand weapons alone).I then did the same again with the exact same setup, but using the Netted Kelp Cloak. The results were as follows:Beserker Cloak build (+42str +10sta +15agi +125power -8defence +6crush +6slash +5DPS +2Crit +40 CA Damage +25 Haste)1087 dpsCloak of Netted Kelp build (+25str +25sta +150health +100power +706disease +291poison +2defence +2double attack +3Crit)1046 dpsThe Beserker Cloak is a *very* clear winner here, which is not what one would expect from your analysis.So, I come back looking for explanations and proof of your statement that you consider the Kelp cloak to be better for DPS than the Sebilisian Beserker one.

Superjoint

09-26-2008, 07:06 PM

Fel any word/thought on the +100 power to Dou Li cap as can't do.

Mimnousa

09-26-2008, 09:10 PM

When was this about a solo build. Please stop selective reading my posts and look at what i have said . I said in a dps build in a group the Kelp cloak will bet better because a monk can easily hit the haste cap in group. What was my reccomendation for a solo cloak ?(( the re2 fighter cloak with haste)) Please read what i am typing. I am not denying in a dry group a monk can benifit from more haste. (( and what did i reccomend the kelp cloak and the chokadai belt)) But more times then not if you group with a zerker, dirge, illy, troubador, fury, either shaman or any class that buffs reuse where you are able to spam off ca's the more crit is gonna shine more. In a GROUP you can get Haste and accuracy buffs. (( guards, warden, crusaders dirge among others can buff accuracy)) Thus making the Beserker cloak less valuable in a group setting. Not only that when factoring crits you need to use combat arts as they can crit. And also correct me if i am wrong here the only class that can buff melee crits is a bard with dktm so really any crit you add up to 92.5% is never gonna cap. Haste/dpsmod are easily capped in groups so that has been my entire point.Not only that but your combat arts are capable of critting so where you just sat there and auttoattacked the higher crit vaule didnt get a chance to compare vs haste which is auttoattack only. Your training wall test is inaccurate unless you use combat arts for the test. Unless you dont use combat arts when you are dpsing?Sorry to sound like a broken record here but my point is being ignored. In a group that buffs any kind of haste this is how the cloaks compare 2 crit and minimal dps mod((beserker cloak)) vs 3 crit and 2 da ((kelp)) ((haste is capped accuracy is easily capped and dps mod in diminished returns and ca damage enhancemnt easily capped)) Do i need to prove this differnce as this is for a GROUP DPS build not a solo build.

Caethre

09-27-2008, 12:23 AM

<cite>Superjoint wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fel any word/thought on the +100 power to Dou Li cap as can't do.</blockquote>OOC.It's just the Epiphanic Imprint (treasured) adornment, a Tier 7 adornment. This can be made by any Tailor of crafting level 65 or above that has scribed the Enigma of the Tailor Volume 7 recipe book.

Caethre

09-27-2008, 01:31 AM

<cite>Mimnousa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>When was this about a solo build. Please stop selective reading my posts and look at what i have said . I said in a dps build in a group the Kelp cloak will bet better because a monk can easily hit the haste cap in group. What was my reccomendation for a solo cloak ?(( the re2 fighter cloak with haste)) Please read what i am typing. I am not denying in a dry group a monk can benifit from more haste. (( and what did i reccomend the kelp cloak and the chokadai belt)) But more times then not if you group with a zerker, dirge, illy, troubador, fury, either shaman or any class that buffs reuse where you are able to spam off ca's the more crit is gonna shine more. In a GROUP you can get Haste and accuracy buffs. (( guards, warden, crusaders dirge among others can buff accuracy)) Thus making the Beserker cloak less valuable in a group setting. Not only that when factoring crits you need to use combat arts as they can crit. And also correct me if i am wrong here the only class that can buff melee crits is a bard with dktm so really any crit you add up to 92.5% is never gonna cap. Haste/dpsmod are easily capped in groups so that has been my entire point.Not only that but your combat arts are capable of critting so where you just sat there and auttoattacked the higher crit vaule didnt get a chance to compare vs haste which is auttoattack only. Your training wall test is inaccurate unless you use combat arts for the test. Unless you dont use combat arts when you are dpsing?</blockquote>OOC.Hmm, you need to take the personal edgy tone out of this, I am not "selectively reading", I am obviously aware that a solo test is just a solo test (it is just easy to set up on the fly). I know that makes the test weaker and in some regards not representative, but not entirely without value (in my opinion, clearly). Again, equally obviously, I do use combat arts in groups (as we all do, no need for patronizing comments). Furthermore, I was quite deliberately *only* addressing cloak comparison in this test, trying to keep the scope of the test limited, not looking at possible waist slot items that I do not (currently) own, like the belt you mentioned, and therefore I did not (and continue not) to comment on that at the same time. One thing at a time!You reasonably point out, in many groups a monk will have over 100% haste with the group buffs, but i put it to you that that monk is very unlikely to have over 200% haste (a non-raidgeared monk anyway), and so even in a group buffing haste, the Berserker cloak will confer at the very least, 25/4 = 6.25% haste benefit if this is the monk's haste item. That is a MINIMUM. Hardly insignificant.However, you made a good point that I missed in your first post, and that is that this haste benefit only applies whilst that cloak continues to actually be my sole haste item (which it currently is), and that if I did own a haste item in another slot, then the benefit of the beserker cloak is lessened by some or all of that 6.25% haste gain. But the fact remains that at present I do not have another haste item that justifies a slot in my DPS build, and therefore that 6.25% haste boost counts firmly in the camp of that Berserker cloak to me right now.<cite>Mimnousa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>In a group that buffs any kind of haste this is how the cloaks compare 2 crit and minimal dps mod((beserker cloak)) vs 3 crit and 2 da ((kelp)) ((haste is capped accuracy is easily capped and dps mod in diminished returns and ca damage enhancemnt easily capped)) Do i need to prove this differnce as this is for a GROUP DPS build not a solo build. </blockquote>Yes, I know you believe {1crit 2 da} >> {5dps 40ca 25haste 6crush 6slash 17str} for DPS in a group, for a non-raidgeared character, and I understand this assessment is based on your assumption that most of the latter things will be capped or near capped in groups and therefore can be ignored.I recognize your statement, have not ignored it, I have read it, I and I understand it. I accept you MAY be entirely correct, and indeed, if you prove to be so, I will bank the Beserker cloak and be done with this.However, here is my point, which I seem to need to repeat: merely stating something (no matter how many times it is stated) without analytical backup or empirical data is NOT the same as proving it. Ergo the continued request (to others) for any further insight and/or data. In the meantime, I will go with my gut and stick with the Beserker cloak for DPS, as it seems the better choice to me *with what little data I do have*.I suppose I will have to do some more testing myself. It will probably STILL be solo, since that is the only way to have 100% control on the test environment, but I can find some other haste item to minimize or remove the effect of the relative haste boost on the Berserker cloak, I can remove the STR proc ring (to reduce randomness) and I can chain cast CAs (since crits boost CAs). I could parse whilst swapping cloaks in a group, but the issues here are more complex, as the actions of groupmates are unlikely to be exactly the same on every pull, and such "noise" makes statistically-relevant data hard to gather in a dynamic group setting.

Mimnousa

09-27-2008, 07:09 AM

Ok well here is some hard proof for you on mechanics and this issue. This haste can be achieved though non raiding so please quit making this a raid vs non raid issue. Flow like the wind ad3=42 haste m1=48Everburning ad3=41 haste m1=47Mindful ad3=21 haste m1=24So a monk can just with skills self buff 104-119 haste with no special gear. Now Haste is not on a linear curve anything in diminishing returns is on a bell curve. So if i remember right the break even point is 63 points into haste= 63% true haste (( may want to look that one up but i am pretty sure )). So using the math of 1/4 is really not a good meter as of gauging as its a rough estimate. I hit about true 100% haste around 120 jaste points((119 Haste is really close to 100%where my 9 second delay weapon the jarsath hammer shows 4.5 delay when using /weapon)) at about 160 haste it really starts to fall off. Anything more then that you will be putting in more points into haste and not getting anything really for it. Now My monk has 1 piece of t8 raid gear and 1 piece of t7 raid gear on her atm.((none of which effect her haste)) The rest is t8 heroic stuff. But i watch my personal buffs and more times then not with procs in group and buffs i eclipse with no haste item 180 haste and i have seen my haste in group pass 200. ((for example if you are with a illy and a zerker you will with all ad3 hit continous 163 and proc to 191 with no haste item worn)) Str hard cap is 1200 in rok and with no buffs or temps up my monk is sitting in dps gear at 835 str. Which is into the soft cap as is. Get a dirge and Mystic and you are sitting really close to the hard cap. and thow the str ring proc on and temp buffs of other group member that 1200 number is easy to hit. The goal of group gear is to get stuff that the group cant buff like crit higher because the buffs you get in group will fill in alot of those items and make said items like the beserker cloak in a decent group a lesser cloak. Now onto accuracy the hard cap for 100% hit rate is mob level x 6.5 so a level 80 mob for hard cap accuracy its 520 for a totally unbuffed mob. Now my monk is at 469 self buffed in offensive stance but here is where the group factors in. Alot of classes debuff the mob making it easier for you to hit the mob and not only that there is a huge group of group members that enhance your crush/slash/pierce. Really that stat is more for tanks as they lose accuracy in defensive stance. Now as the mob gets higher yeah it gets harder to hit but really in an instance non raid you will not need more then what a group provides as of buffs and debuffs on the mob plus what you self buff. Now back to the root of the issue. We have agree 1 item for ca damage enhancemnt is not really a factor. I have in a group dps setting presented you with information that lessens the value of str accuracy and haste. So what we are really comparing is in a group with modest buffs the Kelp cloak will be the better cloak. Also 100% true haste i have proven a monk can come close to hitting with just ad3 or achievable with m1's and no raid gear. Now the beserker may shine more in a group where you are getting nothing as of buffs (( off the top of my head maybe a bruiser for mt, monk, warden with buffs on mt, warlock, necro, and another monk/necro/lock?)) but see how poor of a group it takes? even then they are debuffing the mob making it easier to hit and there is buffs in there still. Its also knowing how your group is buffing and factoring that into what gear you use. Really if i see a troub or an illy the need for haste item is next to none right off the bat.

Superjoint

10-05-2008, 04:50 AM

? on - Ryjesium Forged Knuckles I just got these today but noticed they are slashing wep. Now no biggie as can hit the training wall to raise skill but all my gear is + crushing. Should I be looking at slashing gear now?Also my other wep is baton of supression with a 2.0 delay and a stun proc. The knuckles are 2.5 with no proc. Which wep should I use in main hand?

circusgirl

10-15-2008, 12:05 AM

I'de suggest Ganak's Torque as far as slashing gear goes. The melee crit is key, and it works very well with the Rhyjeseum knuckles.