Excessive Bleeding help

[Evil Gandhi]

<p>I'm finding myself thoroughly confused by this end-ability.</p><p>"Reduces maximum health by up to 5% for each Bleeding ability active on a target"</p><p>I take this to mean that if I open a fight with Quick Strike, Gash, and Impale it would debuff the target's maximum health by 15% right off the top.  The Orc with 1000 hps now has 850 before damage actually occcurs.  This seems to me like the old Mystic STA debuff lines, where when placed before damage would do the same thing, i.e. immediately "damage" the target healthwise.  I just can't seem to find a benefit in PvE, solo or DPS wise, on a target that doesn't constantly heal itself to 100%, of which I've found none.  We do damage so fast and furious, that it seems only like a PvP "vs. healer" ability to me, however that neat, color-coded chart shows that it isn't a PvP ability at all and is useful solo and DPS.  I just can't see how.  When solo, I pull with a bow and the mob is yellow/orange before I really even open up with stun/backstab abilities, so a max health hit seems pointless.</p><p> Am I reading this wrong?</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Evil Gandhi wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm finding myself thoroughly confused by this end-ability.</p><p>"Reduces maximum health by up to 5% for each Bleeding ability active on a target"</p><p>I take this to mean that if I open a fight with Quick Strike, Gash, and Impale it would debuff the target's maximum health by 15% right off the top.  The Orc with 1000 hps now has 850 before damage actually occcurs.  This seems to me like the old Mystic STA debuff lines, where when placed before damage would do the same thing, i.e. immediately "damage" the target healthwise.  I just can't seem to find a benefit in PvE, solo or DPS wise, on a target that doesn't constantly heal itself to 100%, of which I've found none.  We do damage so fast and furious, that it seems only like a PvP "vs. healer" ability to me, however that neat, color-coded chart shows that it isn't a PvP ability at all and is useful solo and DPS.  I just can't see how.  When solo, I pull with a bow and the mob is yellow/orange before I really even open up with stun/backstab abilities, so a max health hit seems pointless.</p><p> Am I reading this wrong?</p></blockquote>debuffing max health makes the kill happen faster, it is after all, 15% less damage you have to do to get the kill.. It wont show up on dps parses though, so if you are one of those chasing the high numbers, this wont help you get there.

[BiggiEQ2]

thats one way to not answer the question... it's like you quoted the post to save yourself reading? anyway, i myself was, well still am, thinking the same thing, if you bow pull and take off 25% of its health already, how does excessive bleeding help at all? lets say the 5 DoT CAs dont do any initial damage and you land them all at once, thats 25% less max hps.. but you've already done 25% damage, so whats the bonus here? same with my mystic STA debuffs, if ive already racked off a chunk of health, is it really beneficial to do the STA debuffs? i mostly went the EB line for the extra DoT damage, not the end ability (still took it for the hell of it). hopefully someone will have an explanation to this conundrum!

[Norrsken]

<cite>BiggiEQ2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>thats one way to not answer the question... it's like you quoted the post to save yourself reading? anyway, i myself was, well still am, thinking the same thing, if you bow pull and take off 25% of its health already, how does excessive bleeding help at all? lets say the 5 DoT CAs dont do any initial damage and you land them all at once, thats 25% less max hps.. but you've already done 25% damage, so whats the bonus here? same with my mystic STA debuffs, if ive already racked off a chunk of health, is it really beneficial to do the STA debuffs? i mostly went the EB line for the extra DoT damage, not the end ability (still took it for the hell of it). hopefully someone will have an explanation to this conundrum!</blockquote>Well, it shaves off 25% of max health, and since the remaining health will also be lowered by 25%, you get a return, but the more damage you did before you got the full debuff, the less the return.So, some numbers. 1 000 health for simplicity. Do 25% damage, 750 health left. debuff off 25% health, and you are left with 562 health. Had you debuffed first, you would have the mob at 500 health. 562 health is about 12% more health left than 500.

[Evil Gandhi]

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BiggiEQ2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>thats one way to not answer the question... it's like you quoted the post to save yourself reading?anyway, i myself was, well still am, thinking the same thing, if you bow pull and take off 25% of its health already, how does excessive bleeding help at all? lets say the 5 DoT CAs dont do any initial damage and you land them all at once, thats 25% less max hps.. but you've already done 25% damage, so whats the bonus here?same with my mystic STA debuffs, if ive already racked off a chunk of health, is it really beneficial to do the STA debuffs?i mostly went the EB line for the extra DoT damage, not the end ability (still took it for the hell of it).hopefully someone will have an explanation to this conundrum!</blockquote>Well, it shaves off 25% of max health, and since the remaining health will also be lowered by 25%, you get a return, but the more damage you did before you got the full debuff, the less the return.So, some numbers. 1 000 health for simplicity. Do 25% damage, 750 health left. debuff off 25% health, and you are left with 562 health. Had you debuffed first, you would have the mob at 500 health. 562 health is about 12% more health left than 500.</blockquote><p>Hmm, that doesn't seem to work at all, Ulvhamne, or maybe we don't open fights the same way.  The way I understand the assassin skill is:  apply Gash, which does x damage, drop max health by 5%, apply Quick Strike doing x damage, drop max health by 5%, apply Impale, further drop max health by 5%, etc.  I know I don't open a fight this way.  When solo, I bow pull with a CA or stealth in and hit them with a massive opener.  Either way, any max health hit is worthless here.  When grouped, I generally allow the mob to drop to under 85-90% before I even bust out of stealth with Garrote.  I guess I can see applying it this way on a larger HP target or when soloing heroic named since the damage is generally low on these CAs and a 5% hit would be fairly significant.</p><p>I suppose I'm wondering if this is how Assassins who have the skill are finding it useful, because on solo mobs it would appear to never show up.</p>

[BiggiEQ2]

heroics are only 3%, epics 1% by the way, making it a more trivial ability which raises more questions. i didnt think it debuffed remaining health by 5% per bleeding ability, and even if this were the case, once the bleeding effect ends, woudl that effectively heal the mob by 5%? it says it takes off 5% max health, not 5% hps in general. im thinking about respeccing into Getaway spec soon though, thoughts on that line?

[TerabithianWhisperwi]

It doesn't matter when you stack these suckers, the end result is you are lowering the the target's MAX health by x-percent.soooo, if the target has 1000 hps, and you stack 4 bleeding abilities, it will now have had it's max health lowered by 20%, or 200 hps, making its max health 800.If the target happens to be at, say, 500 hps in mid-combat, and you stack 4 bleeding abilities, it's max health is STILL lowered by20%.....so its max health is STILL going to be at 800, but since you already have the critter at 500hps, it has no effect.It's intended (I suspect) to be used right away, as an opener.I think a decent way of utilizing this is to stack all of them quickly, which then might just put your target in a hp range that you canwhack him with your stealth bomb after a stun and kill them outright.So, let's say I can whack an NPC for a max of 8000hps. (with my stealth nuke)I am facing a critter with 10000 hitpoints.option 1: I could whack him right away out of stealth, bringing it to 2000 hps, and then combat him until dead.option 2: Or, I could hit him 5 times with bleeding effects, bringing its total hps to 7500 in 5 moves, and then whack him dead.I did a ton less melee with option 2.good for any fight that might be longer than normal. particularly critters that see through stealth.