The Guild Recruiting Window Demystified

[Rothgar]

For quite some time, people have wondered how EQII determines which guilds to list in the recruitment window.  In light of Amnerys' recent article on using this window, I'll try to clear that up as much as possible.  The original intent of the recruitment window was to help new players find a guild.  So the server users several metrics to try to match a player up to a potential guild.First off, only guilds with online recruiters are shown in the list, and up to a maximum of 40 guilds will be shown.   When determining if a guild should be shown and how high it appears in the list, each guild is weighted on several factors.   Each member of the guild that has been online recently weights the guild higher.  The more recent that member has been online, the higher the weighting.  Players that are currently online weight the results the most.    Also, for each guild member close to your level range, the guild is weighted even higher.When all is said and done, larger guilds with a more active roster will appear higher in the list.  However, the biggest factor that might affect your guild's listing is whether or not you have a recruiter currently online.  So if you think this could be part of the reason your guild isn't showing up, talk to your guild leadership about adding more recruiters.Happy Guild Hunting!

[Bette]

<p>The guild recruiting is a great tool but... (isnt there always a but?)</p><p>Would it be possible to put a checkbox or something so that the guild could check the things they want.  Actually I think there is a class thing to select but I do not know if it checks that before putting the LFM guilds in your guild recruiting window.</p><p>Some guilds only want level 80's</p><p>Some guilds only want folks over level 50.</p><p>Some guilds are looking for a certain class or tradeskill.</p><p>Some take anyone.</p><p>So if Uber Guild A wants ONLY a level 80 Templar with 140 aa's and I am a level 23 Monk with 12 aa's why am I seeing it?</p><p>I realize this is somewhat unimportant in the grand scheme of things but it would make it a more useful tool (in my opinion)</p>

[Rothgar]

I agree that more options might make it more useful, and perhaps in the future we will see some changes.As far as letting guilds specify "We want a level 80 Templar", well, there are just way too many variables.  Some guilds also want raid-geared players, or players with a specific number of Achievement Points.  There are so many options that the recruitment window would grow out of control if we tried to specifically address each option.For now, the best idea is for a guild to be specific in their "Long Description".  Then, as players are browsing for guild's, they should read the descriptions to see if they are a good match before contacting a recruiter.  After all, maybe a player will find a guild that they want to strive to join even though they don't meet the requirements.  This gives them something to work towards.

[Rijacki]

I don't think the weighting works the way you think it does in relation to a character's level.Right now I logged on my unguildedd level 35 coercer on AB.- First guild on the list - 2 players currently online that are within 10 levels of my character to either direction. The reset (13) were 70+- Second on the list - again 2, the rest (16) were mostly 70+- Third: zero of the 28 were less than 80 and they were seeking 78+ only.- Forth: of the 10 online, four were actually within 10 levels of my character.- Fifth: of the 16 online, six were within 10 levels.- Sixth: 16 online, zero within 10 levels, only one was not 80.and so on with nearly all of the guilds in the list having mostly level 80s online.Of the ones appearing toward the top, there were some with only one or two recruiters online with other guilds lower down with more recruiters online, so even that weighting might not be working properly.Oh and one guild had as their recruiting message "Recruiting is closed".In my opinion, the tool isn't effective.

[Armawk]

<p>I find the guilds that appear in the list, keep enough recruiters online to ensure they appear high on the list, and yet are not recruiting and even say so in their message to be a big problem for the tool, on past occasions even taking up most of the list. Basically some large guilds do this as an ego stroking/showoff exercise</p><p>I dont know if a petition of such cases is even worth the bother right now, but it would be nice to know the possibility exists of reporting this and something being done (like a temporary ban from the list)</p><p>To make this fairer, there ideally could be a blanket 'not recruiting' setting which just takes a guild off the tool entirely regardless of individual members settings (as far as I know, at the moment guild leaders would have to remove every members recruiting rights?). Then guilds would have no excuse for not behaving properly and could fairly be 'reprimanded'</p>

[Daedalus Raistlin]

I think the guild tool requires some more options for the benefit of small guilds.As it stands, whenever I look on the guild tool, it's almost always the same guilds displayed, and all of them are at the guild level cap.Basically, the big guilds get bigger, and the small guilds either stay the same size or they lose people to the bigger guilds.At the very least, I think there should be an option for selecting the guild level range (eg, a drop down box with options 1 - 9, 10 - 19, 20 - 20, etc) so that people can contribute something more to a guild.

[Rothgar]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think the weighting works the way you think it does in relation to a character's level.</blockquote>The weighting is working correctly.  As I mentioned in my original post, it also weights players based on how recently they've logged in.  So looking at only those players who are online at this moment can be misleading.  Most likely the guilds near the top have lots of players offline, but have been online recently.  It also weights players near your level even if they are not online, so just looking at the current online roster doesn't always give you the clear picture.  Remember, the original intent was to list the most active guilds near the top so new players looking for a guild won't find themselves joining an inactive guild where people don't log in.One thing I could try tweaking is changing the weighting values to give more weight to members within your level range.

[ashen1973]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think the weighting works the way you think it does in relation to a character's level.</blockquote>The weighting is working correctly.  As I mentioned in my original post, it also weights players based on how recently they've logged in.  So looking at only those players who are online at this moment can be misleading.  Most likely the guilds near the top have lots of players offline, but have been online recently.  It also weights players near your level even if they are not online, so just looking at the current online roster doesn't always give you the clear picture.  Remember, the original intent was to list the most active guilds near the top so new players looking for a guild won't find themselves joining an inactive guild where people don't log in.One thing I could try tweaking is changing the weighting values to give more weight to members within your level range.</blockquote><p>Something along these lines does need to be done.</p><p>As stated before the situation we have now is that the biggest guilds are always at the top, hence they get the majority of the new players applications and the smaller guilds dont get as much as a chance to grow.</p><p>Not everyone wants to be a part of a huge guild (although I have no problem with those who do), some people would prefer a smaller guild where things are more 'personal'.</p><p>Would it not be possible to add filtering options? </p><p>Let the player decide what 40 guilds to show</p><p>Give options such as  filter by active players in last 24 hours.   </p><p>filter by active players in lvl x-x range in last 24 hours</p><p>filter by guilds looking for fighters</p><p>filter by guilds looking to raid</p><p>The guis that show up on the list , but are not actually recruting, are a problem, although I dont know what could be done about this</p>

[Sinafe]

<p>It has been a while since I have looked at our guild recruitment tool. I gave up a while ago when I realized that the chances of us being in that 40 were slim. We still have the settings set but I have not gone back and looked at it or updated it or anything. I will say the filter idea would get me back into believing in this tool. If I remember correctly you can say that you are a raiding guild or a family guild, what classes you are looking for, as well as add a description. If players could use those same items to filter by it would be a great. </p>

[Rijacki]

On the guild side, there should be a only recruiting level X+ with radio buttons for "all" and then 20+, 30+, 40+, etc and have that weighted to show a player no more than 20 levels above current character level.If there isn't a "not currently recruiting" select box which then drops the guild from the recruitment window, there should be. (And, I agree it should be petitionable for a guild to be actively recruiting via the tool but not accepting recruits via the message displayed.. they're disrupting the game play of others)The tool really does need heavier weighting toward the level range of the character viewing it.  At what ever time I have been on with that same character, I have seen roughly the same guilds.  I am actually seeking a guild with that character (AB, evil only, RP but no scripted RP or cyber, allowing casuals since I also play on other servers and have characters guilded on the good side on AB) and keep hoping to see some other guild listed there to peruse (I loathe guildportal and that seems to be the only option open to look for guilds on AB).

[Bremer]

So, the intent of the guild window is to help new players find a guild and the criterias which determine which guilds are shown are set so, that a raiding guild with 25-30 people online 24/7 has the best chance to appear on top of the list. Um, yeah...

[Asif]

<cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote>So, the intent of the guild window is to help new players find a guild and the criterias which determine which guilds are shown are set so, that a raiding guild with 25-30 people online 24/7 has the best chance to appear on top of the list. Um, yeah...</blockquote><p>Wow i dont know where you get that idea from ? On 24/7 nobody does that.( well we dont anyway )</p><p>I know we are a big guild and we always get new players everyday but the reason is there is always some one on to chat with them to see if they are a good fit.</p><p>We are not a raiding guild and we are not 80 but we grow by lots and lose lots of new toons also because of some of the things our guild believes in .</p><p>We help lots of new toons out but do not need needy people ,they dont last long and i am amazed at how people want access to banks right away which does not happen.</p><p>For the smaller guilds there does need to be someway of setting the tool better cause guilds like us always have some recruiter on (Not on Purpose) but we can have 30+ toons on at any given time with 1-3 of them being recruiters.</p><p>I just believe the smaller guilds need some HELP with this !!!!</p>

[Rothgar]

I have a question for the smaller guilds that say they aren't showing up.  When you open the recruitment window, is it really capping out at 40 guilds displayed?  I logged onto several servers last night and checked the results and never saw the window cap at 40 guilds.  This means a guild of ANY size, even just 1 person, as long as they had a recruiter online would have shown up in the list.As Asif stated above, just because larger guilds show up near the top doesn't mean that they are raiding guilds.  In fact, many raiding guilds, especially the hardcore guilds, keep smaller roster sizes.Yes, guilds that put notes in there that they are not recruiting could be annoying, but there really isn't much we can do about that.  I don't think involving Customer Service in this area with petitions would be a good use of their time.

[Krystara]

<p>I am the recruiter for my guild, and we've never appeared on the guild listing to my knowledge.  Now, I know that AB has an enormous number of guilds so chances are really good that the list is always capped at 40, and we're <b>/tiny/</b> so our metrics would almost always leave us off the list.</p><p>Still, it would be nice of the guild recruitment tool could be tweaked somehow that when I am online, we show up to someone.  Someday.</p><p>/sniffle /smile</p>

[Akaran2]

<p>Roth: My guild has 2 accounts attached to it, mine and my wife's. We have a ton of active alts that we play, and one or two that aren't in the guild for whatever reason. I can absolutely positively without a shadow of a doubt tell you that on primetime (or much any time) on Mistmoore, my guild -does not- show up on the guild recruitment tool, even though I've got my toons all flagged as recruiters.</p><p>Maybe it's because some of the older servers have more than 40 guilds or whatever the metric is.. I know new ones spring up on MM every single day for a host of reasons. *shrugs*</p>

[Banditman]

A simple checkbox for each guild that says "Guild is currently recruiting" would be an easy start.  If they don't have that box checked, they don't show up . . .

[ArivenGemini]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have a question for the smaller guilds that say they aren't showing up.  When you open the recruitment window, is it really capping out at 40 guilds displayed?  I logged onto several servers last night and checked the results and never saw the window cap at 40 guilds.  This means a guild of ANY size, even just 1 person, as long as they had a recruiter online would have shown up in the list.As Asif stated above, just because larger guilds show up near the top doesn't mean that they are raiding guilds.  In fact, many raiding guilds, especially the hardcore guilds, keep smaller roster sizes.Yes, guilds that put notes in there that they are not recruiting could be annoying, but there really isn't much we can do about that.  I don't think involving Customer Service in this area with petitions would be a good use of their time.</blockquote>I was under the understanding that in -addition- to being made a recruiter, that person had to go into their guild window on one of the pages and check the box saying that they are recruiting... maybe some of them are missing this?

[Razlath]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree that more options might make it more useful, and perhaps in the future we will see some changes.As far as letting guilds specify "We want a level 80 Templar", well, there are just way too many variables.  Some guilds also want raid-geared players, or players with a specific number of Achievement Points.  There are so many options that the recruitment window would grow out of control if we tried to specifically address each option.For now, the best idea is for a guild to be specific in their "Long Description".  Then, as players are browsing for guild's, they should read the descriptions to see if they are a good match before contacting a recruiter.  After all, maybe a player will find a guild that they want to strive to join even though they don't meet the requirements.  This gives them something to work towards.</blockquote><p>Thanks for the explanation Rothgar, but I think you might have missed what many are asking for because your answer doesn't seem to jive (alternatively I am just mising something here).</p><p>When you set up the guild recruiting you set several drop downs / checkboxes.  These are quantifiable things that you set about your guild.  If the guild search tool allowed you to set the same switches, and then find only guilds that match (or that match the most switches) up to the 40 guild cap then it would be much more useful.  The full text could then be persued to limit the list further.  This shouldn't be too many variables as all the switches are already there.  You just need an interface that compares already existing switches to switches you set just like the broker window does.  The only other addition I would love to see is a recuriting lvl x+ box or drop down, but comparing the existing switches would go a long way towards helping out.</p><p>Sure you might still see guilds that don't apply (maybe they are looking for furies instead of templars but the only checkbox is priests), but it would be a lot more accurate.  With the push to use it, the more useful it is, the better off everyone looks.</p><p>I haven't looked at our guild recruiting box on Nek in a bit, so I will double check whether our guild shows up and more than 40 show up or not.  They did not, and there were not as of the create date on my Brigand which was a few months ago (I tend to check when I make a new character).  It was quite amusing to open up the window with my lvl 1 Brigand and see the entire first page filled with guilds recruiting 70+ only.</p>

[DaFriar]

I think we should just tab the guild window and set the tabs across to top to Raiding, Casual, Small, Large.. (or whatever major criteria, just examples)Then when a player pulls open the window they can click on one of the tabs and see a list of guilds currently recruiting that have declared these options. Guild leaders (or assigned members) set these options in their guild window. Sure a guild maybe a large raiding guild, let it show on both lists. Same with Large casual or small raiding.. etc. etc. Give the player the filters and the guild's the criteria (which is basically what the above posters are stating). As for my guild, we usually have one to three (6 or 7 during peak times) people on at a time, we're trying to grow. I'm set to recruiter, I have recruiting active. I pull up the guild window and we're not listed and no the guild window isn't displaying 40 guilds, it's more like 20. I think having the guild looking for more window broken down into some basic criteria (which we already set in game) would be very helpful in letting people see the less popular guilds (It's almost always the same 20 on our server) and see some of the smaller struggling guilds. Anyways just my two coppers worth.

[Writer Cal]

<p>Rothgar:  No, I have not been seeing the guild recruiting window capping at 40 guilds.  Like the previous poster, it's been around 20.  And sometimes our small guild isn't showing up while active recruiters are on when there are fewer than 40 listed in the window.  And yes, I know at least two recruiters have the recruiting box checked to on because two of them are me.  That's whether I check with my level 80 character or a level 25 character, and even with a level 1 unguilded character just to see.  It sure seems like <i>something</i> is amiss with the tool if it's supposed to cap at 40 and is not and guilds with active recruiters on still aren't showing up.</p>

[Sinafe]

Nek server.<div></div><div>I just checked ours a few minutes ago. There were 26 guilds listed. We actually were one of them. Yay <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I did find out that you don't have to have a new character to see who is on the list. There is a little shield icon next to the checkbox for I am recruiting for the guild at the bottom, when you click on it it pulls up the list. I will check it again sometime this weekend when it is sure to be a little more busy to see how many are listed.</div>

[Noaani]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The weighting is working correctly. </blockquote><p>I am logged in right now on 2 accounts, one I have a level 80, the other a level 10, both on Guk server.</p><p>The guilds recruiting page for both of these characters is identicle. The same guilds are listed, and in the same order.</p><p>Should this be how it works, are there factors we are unaware of, or is it broken?</p>

[Pusska]

I am almost certain that the guild cap of 40 is not working, but I will wait until peak time over the weekend to see if I can give you something solid to chew on Rothgar. With the population drop atm though, I am not sure if our guild will 'vanish' from the recruiting list as it normally does in peak times, but hopefully it will and I can report back how many guilds are listed at the time. It took us (as a small guild) quite some time to actually make it onto the list. It did seem to coincide with us rising up in guild level and vary according to the amount of players we had online. But I know for a fact that we did not appear on the list at all until we were reasonably high in level, and there were certainly not 40 guilds listed as recruiting at that time.This tool may have functioned once - and things were obviously different then. At the moment it simply serves as a lesson in futility :-/ People know that the tool does not work, and they generally do not bother to use it: hence all the guild spam in the channels. And that assumes they know the tool exists in the first place!P.S. Guilds that are listed using this tool and have it set to 'currently not accepting applications' and so forth, should be smote from above by a giant lightning bolt.

[Rijacki]

If it actually did show 40 guilds (I get only 2 "pages" of about 10 each page, definitely not 40, never been 40 as long as I have looked at it) and actually was weighted to show guilds (top to bottom) with online members around the level of the character viewing it, having guilds with a message of "not recruiting now" wouldn't be so bad since they wouldn't be preventing other guilds from being showcased.I'd suggest one more filter, how many new additions to the guild they've had within a month.  Fewer or no additions, the guild goes down in the metrics.

[SisterTheresa]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have a question for the smaller guilds that say they aren't showing up.  When you open the recruitment window, is it really capping out at 40 guilds displayed?  I logged onto several servers last night and checked the results and never saw the window cap at 40 guilds.  This means a guild of ANY size, even just 1 person, as long as they had a recruiter online would have shown up in the list.As Asif stated above, just because larger guilds show up near the top doesn't mean that they are raiding guilds.  In fact, many raiding guilds, especially the hardcore guilds, keep smaller roster sizes.Yes, guilds that put notes in there that they are not recruiting could be annoying, but there really isn't much we can do about that.  I don't think involving Customer Service in this area with petitions would be a good use of their time.</blockquote><p>I am in a smaller guild ... the number is capped.  Why?  Because people get on right after the server reset/patch ... </p><p>So no, this guild window stinks big time.</p><p>Why not have it like the old EQ1 bulleting board, or Vanguard where it lists every guild set for recruiting?</p><p>I get tired of seeing the same ... dang ... guilds ... each ... day ... Nothing changes.  And I have never, ever seen any member close to my unguilded alt's level range.  All 80s on there.  Must be bored.</p><p>There should be options to pick guilds.  Would sure as heck slow down the chat channel guild spam, because people can't get on the window.  Don't see those spamming!</p>

[Rissu]

I checked the Guild Recruiting window today on my unguilded alt on the AB server -- 24 guilds show and that is it -- and my guild never shows up.

[GrunEQ]

<span style="font-size: x-small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Ok on Nek server I tried out the guild recruiting to see how it went....well only 17 guilds were listed and I know mine was not one of them.  So I would say it failed as far as helping to recruit.  There were definately not 40 listings.</span>

[Melora]

I never understood the recruiting window before so I was grateful to see a discussion on it's demystification. Regardless of how the guilds get weighted I don't think the overall system functions properly. I've never ever seen 40 guilds listed (right now there are 23) and 75% of the time (now included) my guild is not among those that are. I could understand our smaller guild not being listed among the top 40, but to not even be included when there are "free" spots available is insulting.

[Taevin]

I just logged on to AB on 6/14 at 10AM EST. I'm flagged as a recruiter, we are checked as needing all classes. I pulled up the window and it showed 19 guilds. My guild was not one of them. Our guild is level 27, if that has any impact on the listing.

[Lord Montague]

<p>There are problems I've had with this tool from its inception.  No algorythm no matter how sophisticated is still going to have its limitations and will drive off of assumptions.  Whatever that algorythm is, it clearly does not work for the majority of the player base.  It weighs its decisions to the advantage of the guilds that really don't need the tool.  In the end, most guilds still rely on word of mouth to do the bulk of their recruiting.  The parameters of the search cannot be changed or customized.  This is a horrible limitation.  What good is a tool to "search" for a guild if you can't "search?"</p><p>All that being said, I felt like the tool has always been someone's side pet project that was decided to be implimented on a whim, and that it has always been incomplete.  I've submitted feedback on this before, and I do believe it warrants consideration.  Give this tool some real functionality or take it out.</p>

[Rashaak]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>For quite some time, people have wondered how EQII determines which guilds to list in the recruitment window.  In light of Amnerys' recent article on using this window, I'll try to clear that up as much as possible.  The original intent of the recruitment window was to help new players find a guild.  So the server users several metrics to try to match a player up to a potential guild.First off, only guilds with online recruiters are shown in the list, and up to a maximum of 40 guilds will be shown.   When determining if a guild should be shown and how high it appears in the list, each guild is weighted on several factors.   Each member of the guild that has been online recently weights the guild higher.  The more recent that member has been online, the higher the weighting.  Players that are currently online weight the results the most.    Also, for each guild member close to your level range, the guild is weighted even higher.When all is said and done, larger guilds with a more active roster will appear higher in the list.  However, the biggest factor that might affect your guild's listing is whether or not you have a recruiter currently online.  So if you think this could be part of the reason your guild isn't showing up, talk to your guild leadership about adding more recruiters.</p><p><i>This right here is the biggest issue with the GRT. LARGER GUILDS WITH A MORE ACTIVE ROSTER...this generally means this is the raid type guild. It basically means the large guild gets larger, while the small guilds get shafted hard! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></i>Happy Guild Hunting!</p></blockquote><p>So questions for you...</p><p>Why does the GRT only show 40 guilds 'online' at that time?</p><p>Why does the GRT do the searching for you? </p><p>Almost everything else has search functions in the game for players looking for what they really need/want. Just like the LFG tool, Broker, and even the TS menu has lots a variables to search for.</p><p>The GRT wasn't done right and needs a major overhaul. Otherwise it's just a useless tool except for the high-end guilds that already level 50+! You won't see many guilds on that GRT below level 30 at all! It leaves the small guild in the dark which makes a lot of them die out because they are not able to be seen when someone is looking for a guild. Or have to use ooc channels to try and recruit...</p><p>The way the GRT should be set up is to allow for both guilds and players to search for each other. On the player side, the player should be able to select what it is he is looking for. Small guild, rp oriented, casual, raiding, large guild...etc. They need to have that ability to search, not let the game do the searching for the player. With the way the GRT search's it's basically telling the player these are the only guilds for you, when there may be so many smaller guilds looking to increase their player base so they can show more activity that are probably just as good if not better than some large guilds out there!</p><p>For the guild side...the guild recruiters should be able to use a 'lfg' (looking for guild) feature similiar to the LFG tool. Players searching for guilds can put their info up...and recruiters can search as needed. Right now as it stands....most small guilds have to go outside the game to other resources such as the EQ2players Server forums just to try and recruit.</p>

[Elizabette]

I know this weekend my guild was actively and heavily recruiting. We had 2-3 recruiters on all weekend and I did not see our guild on the list at all once. I didn't count the guilds on the list sadly.I really would like to see some more option for guild leaders to have access to. Let us specify level ranges, let us specify certain tradeskill classes and levels, and please take away the 40 listing cap. Let the level 1 guild with 6 members show on the list. What is the harm? Give the players a way to search. As it was said, we can search on everything else. Take this b#st#rd child tool and make it useful.

[Anordil]

<p>Heh.</p><p>In over a year of my guild's existence, we still struggle to recruit new players. We've never, ever once shown up on the GRT and all of my characters and practically everyone who has been with us for longer than a month has the guild recruiter ability and is set to do so. :-/ </p><p>So, the result is we can either seek new members in the level channels, post on the forums, or we can try to find new guildmembers as we run around Norrath. With the wildly diverse plentitude of guilds on LDL, it makes it difficult to find folks. I've seen a variety of really great ideas here in this thread on how to fix the GRT.</p><p>Just my 2c worth.</p>

[Gilasil]

<p>Thanks for the explanation.</p><p>I have one suggestion for future development.  Give the player a query ability based on those icons that show up with each guild (currently recruiting fighters, currently recruiting craftsmen, hardcore, RP, etc.)  </p><p>My 38 monk is currently looking for a guild on Lucan D'Lere.  I want an RP guild and won't consider a guild which isn't RP.  It would be great if I could specify that.  Perhaps it would allow smaller RP guilds who don't show up on the tool to show up in such a query too.  In my case a list of 40 RP guilds would be a gold mine of information for my guild hunting.  Chances are others who are looking for guild have a rough idea of some things they're looking for (hardcore, raids alot, family friendly, whatever).  Such a query tool would be handy for them too.</p>

[Rothgar]

It certainly sounds like a problem if the guild recruiting window isn't showing all 40 guilds.  I will check into that.As far as all the suggestions for the tool, definitely good ideas.   We don't normally talk about changes too far in advance, so supposing I did put some work into the recruiting tool even before making this post about how it works, I probably would not tell anyone that I was doing this.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Writer Cal]

Thank you for checking into that, Rothgar.  It's much appreciated.

[Pusska]

Ok, my returning feebackAmazingly over the weekend Unsung Heroes managed to stay in the recruiting list (typical as I was trying to prove a point grrr).BUT ... today, which was Tues 9am in the land of Aus, we were no longer listed. There was a total of 23 other guilds listed which I think is interesting as Melora also mentioned his/her window cut off at 23 on page 2 of this thread.Also, I 100% agree that the guild recruiting tool should NOT do it's own little seach unless instructed to do so from variables the user has set. I was kind of hoping that something would come out with guild halls that would affect the guild recruiting ability, so to see this thread and all it's interest is great <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Amphibia]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>At what ever time I have been on with that same character, I have seen roughly the same guilds.  I am actually seeking a guild with that character (AB, evil only, RP but no scripted RP or cyber, allowing casuals since I also play on other servers and have characters guilded on the good side on AB) and keep hoping to see some other guild listed there to peruse (I loathe guildportal and that seems to be the only option open to look for guilds on AB).</blockquote>You're right.When I came to AB, I looked at the guild recruiting window a lot. I was looking for a RP guild, but I also noticed that it was always the same guilds that would show on that list. Of RP guilds, only the relatively large ones seemed to appear on the list regularly. The smaller ones just don't make it in there, sadly.

[TsarRasput]

Rothgar,   There is a bug I've seen with the Guild Recruiting Tool, and I don't know how to explain it other than this.  Say we have 3 recruiters on, and they are Bob, Joe and TomNow is someone goes to our guild and clicks on BobYou'd expect it to be the following:Bob sees : Someone would like to speak to YOU (paraphrasing don't remember the exact wording) Joe sees : Someone would like to speak to Bob Tom sees : Someone would like to speak to Bob In Actuality what we see is:Bob sees : Someone would like to speak to YOU Joe sees : Someone would like to speak to Joe Tom sees : Someone would like to speak to TomBeing a computer engineer, and having seen bugs in my own coding very similar to this, it looks like it's a simple case of the "Someone would like to speak to %n"  %n should be the person they pressed, instead it's the character's own name.  I'd hope it's an easy fix, and it's really obscure unless you understand the coding behind it.

[sirmamabe]

I would recommend leaving it alone and having a fancy search on the website.  Uruishol

[Druid03]

<cite>sirmamabear wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would recommend leaving it alone and having a fancy search on the website.  Uruishol</blockquote>this would never work, unless they fix eq2players.comeq2players.com never workd and probably never willnow if eq2players updated its data correctly and faster than it does now (and was free) it would be the best and easiest way to search for a guild, having in-game browsers and all

[Druid03]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>It certainly sounds like a problem if the guild recruiting window isn't showing all 40 guilds.  I will check into that.</blockquote>i dont think i've ever seen 40 guilds on the GRT, i havent counted them in a while but im going to guess its around 20 guilds atm

[Rothgar]

<cite>Pusska@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, my returning feebackAmazingly over the weekend Unsung Heroes managed to stay in the recruiting list (typical as I was trying to prove a point grrr).BUT ... today, which was Tues 9am in the land of Aus, we were no longer listed. There was a total of 23 other guilds listed which I think is interesting as Melora also mentioned his/her window cut off at 23 on page 2 of this thread.Also, I 100% agree that the guild recruiting tool should NOT do it's own little seach unless instructed to do so from variables the user has set. I was kind of hoping that something would come out with guild halls that would affect the guild recruiting ability, so to see this thread and all it's interest is great <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> </blockquote>It looks like that current implementation of the Guild Recruiting Window on live servers requires that the recruiter not only be online, but NOT be AFK in order for the guild to show up.  (Yes, a little strict, I know)  So when checking to see if you show up in the list, make sure you have a recruiter online and not AFK.  Let me know if you still don't show up in the list and the list is not capped at 40 entries.

[Arse]

<p>While I haven't had much time to experience this system, the times that I was looking for a guild it really helped! I think this is a wonderful feature <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Writer Cal]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pusska@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, my returning feebackAmazingly over the weekend Unsung Heroes managed to stay in the recruiting list (typical as I was trying to prove a point grrr).BUT ... today, which was Tues 9am in the land of Aus, we were no longer listed. There was a total of 23 other guilds listed which I think is interesting as Melora also mentioned his/her window cut off at 23 on page 2 of this thread.Also, I 100% agree that the guild recruiting tool should NOT do it's own little seach unless instructed to do so from variables the user has set. I was kind of hoping that something would come out with guild halls that would affect the guild recruiting ability, so to see this thread and all it's interest is great <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></blockquote>It looks like that current implementation of the Guild Recruiting Window on live servers requires that the recruiter not only be online, but NOT be AFK in order for the guild to show up.  (Yes, a little strict, I know)  So when checking to see if you show up in the list, make sure you have a recruiter online and not AFK.  Let me know if you still don't show up in the list and the list is not capped at 40 entries.</blockquote>2 recruiters online.  Both have the Recruiting For Guild box checked off.  Neither are AFK.  25 guilds listed in the window.  Ours still isn't showing up.

[Pusska]

Yes I discovered that afk recruiters removes us from the list entirely during these experiments. But just to reiterate ... The guild list was capped at 23 and we were not listed (when we normally are, so I know the settings are correct) and I was most certainly not afk - I double checked at the time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Rashaak]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pusska@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, my returning feebackAmazingly over the weekend Unsung Heroes managed to stay in the recruiting list (typical as I was trying to prove a point grrr).BUT ... today, which was Tues 9am in the land of Aus, we were no longer listed. There was a total of 23 other guilds listed which I think is interesting as Melora also mentioned his/her window cut off at 23 on page 2 of this thread.Also, I 100% agree that the guild recruiting tool should NOT do it's own little seach unless instructed to do so from variables the user has set. I was kind of hoping that something would come out with guild halls that would affect the guild recruiting ability, so to see this thread and all it's interest is great <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></blockquote>It looks like that current implementation of the Guild Recruiting Window on live servers requires that the recruiter not only be online, but NOT be AFK in order for the guild to show up.  (Yes, a little strict, I know)  So when checking to see if you show up in the list, make sure you have a recruiter online and not AFK.  Let me know if you still don't show up in the list and the list is not capped at 40 entries.</blockquote><p>By strict you mean what? </p><p><img src="http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/4197/guildsiq7.jpg" alt="" width="772" height="554" border="0" /></p><p>See the two top guilds on this list?  Yah....not recruiting...but because their recruiters are on line and they have a lot of members...they take up two spots that could go to guilds that are well....a bit more diserving...</p><p>Rothgar....I seriously think you need to take a larger look at this rather than telling us 'this is why this happens' approach. I don't want any more stupid work arounds. Make this thing work the way it should of 3 years ago or just get rid of it...</p><p>If it doesn't help ALL players and ALL guilds on EVERY server...then it is not a useful tool in the slightest...</p>

[Rothgar]

<cite>Rashaak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Rothgar....I seriously think you need to take a larger look at this rather than telling us 'this is why this happens' approach. </blockquote>Why do you assume that just because I explain how its working now that we aren't or won't make changes to it in the near future?  I think quite a few people like having the inner-workings of something explained, especially when its something as cryptic as the recruiting window.  This doesn't mean we won't work to improve it.  If you've been around the game awhile you should know that we generally don't talk about what we're releasing too far in advance due to the possibility of last-minute changes.  But sometimes if you read the dev posts closely and read between the lines you might pick up some hints here and there.Ives, you said "<span class="postbody"><i>Both have the Recruiting For Guild box checked off.</i>"  If you want to show up in the recruiting window they will need to have their recruiting for guild check box "checked on".</span>

[Writer Cal]

Right, poorly worded due to posting on the fly.  I did mean they were ON.  Little checkmark in the box.

[Noaani]

<cite>Rashaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>By strict you mean what?</blockquote><p>That pic is not the fault of the guild recruitment tool, but rather of the guilds that are in it while recruitment is closed.</p><blockquote>If it doesn't help ALL players and ALL guilds on EVERY server...then it is not a useful tool in the slightest... </blockquote><p>This is the most extreme definition of usefulness in terms of an in game addition I have ever seen.</p><p>Name me one single part of the game that is as large as the guild recruitment tool, and that is useful to every single player.</p><p>if it helps one single player, on one server, then it is useful. Maybe not to you, but it is to that player.</p>

[Taevin]

<p>Rothgar - just wanted to post that I wasn't AFK the other day when I checked to see if we were listed (posted as Mordraeth then).</p><p>Thanks for looking into this, hopefully you're able to track down the issue.</p>

[Rashaak]

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rashaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>By strict you mean what?</blockquote><p>That pic is not the fault of the guild recruitment tool, but rather of the guilds that are in it while recruitment is closed.</p><p><i>yes...yes... blame the guild and its recruiters <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  thats the easy way to do it...</i></p><p><i>but lets just say that both the guild and the way the GRT was initially set up are at fault</i></p><p>If it doesn't help ALL players and ALL guilds on EVERY server...then it is not a useful tool in the slightest... </p><p>This is the most extreme definition of usefulness in terms of an in game addition I have ever seen.</p><p>Name me one single part of the game that is as large as the guild recruitment tool, and that is useful to every single player.</p><p>if it helps one single player, on one server, then it is useful. Maybe not to you, but it is to that player.</p></blockquote><p>hrm...a couple useful tools you say? Lets start with the Broker window...and why not the LFG tool as well...</p>

[Rashaak]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rashaak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Rothgar....I seriously think you need to take a larger look at this rather than telling us 'this is why this happens' approach. </blockquote>Why do you assume that just because I explain how its working now that we aren't or won't make changes to it in the near future?  I think quite a few people like having the inner-workings of something explained, especially when its something as cryptic as the recruiting window.  This doesn't mean we won't work to improve it.  If you've been around the game awhile you should know that we generally don't talk about what we're releasing too far in advance due to the possibility of last-minute changes.  But sometimes if you read the dev posts closely and read between the lines you might pick up some hints here and there.</blockquote><p>Don't get defensive...I just think rather than give explanations for current issues, why not tell us how your going to remedy it. What plans do you have. No need to be criptic about something like this...</p>

[Armawk]

<p>Just a 'report' from a small guild in case its useful.</p><p>Blackburrow server. Small guild, level 24. 2 recruiters online, noone afk. 14 guilds showing in the guild window. No sign of us in there.</p><p>Shaun</p>

[Freliant]

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just a 'report' from a small guild in case its useful.</p><p>Blackburrow server. Small guild, level 24. 2 recruiters online, noone afk. 14 guilds showing in the guild window. No sign of us in there.</p><p>Shaun</p></blockquote><p>Who were you doing the search with. As I understand it, it shows the best guilds that are recruiting for the level range you are at. So if you log in your level 20 char, you should not see the level 80 mostly guilds, but instead guilds with an average level around what you have logged in. </p><p>Some people seem to forget this point, and when their guilds have alot of players of various levels bringing down the average level of the guild to say, 30, then when a level 80 logs in from that same guild and does a search to see where they stand in the recruitment windows, they don't see their guild, but instead all the level 80 raiding guilds that are just exhibiting their guild...</p>

[Rijacki]

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just a 'report' from a small guild in case its useful.</p><p>Blackburrow server. Small guild, level 24. 2 recruiters online, noone afk. 14 guilds showing in the guild window. No sign of us in there.</p><p>Shaun</p></blockquote><p>Who were you doing the search with. As I understand it, it shows the best guilds that are recruiting for the level range you are at. So if you log in your level 20 char, you should not see the level 80 mostly guilds, but instead guilds with an average level around what you have logged in. </p><p>Some people seem to forget this point, and when their guilds have alot of players of various levels bringing down the average level of the guild to say, 30, then when a level 80 logs in from that same guild and does a search to see where they stand in the recruitment windows, they don't see their guild, but instead all the level 80 raiding guilds that are just exhibiting their guild...</p></blockquote>When I've done my checks, it is with a character of some middle level that is unguilded (I actually do have unguilded alts, one of them I had been actively looking for a guild home for her). But you don't need to be unguilded to see the listings, you can go to the recruitment management page of the guild UI and click on the -small- shield icon in the bottom corner.A level 35ish will see the -same- guilds displayed (and in the same order) as a level 80.  The level weighting does not work. The "caps at 40" does not work.

[Kaalenarc]

<p>While I personally think the guild tool is fine "as is", I can udnerstand the frustration of the smaller guilds. When we started out, the largest guild on AB had like 300 members, it was easier to grow. Now, there is fiercer competition for new members and large guilds (my own obviosuly included) do have the advantage. </p><p> So whats the solution? Simple - add some filters to the search window. Let the player look for the type he is looking for. "Filter Guilds with between 1-10 members " or "guilds with 500+ members" . Have it default to the current system still rewards the most active guilds - it SHOULD. But have those who want to see the smaller guilds be able to. Alternatively - simply list every guild with a recruiter online.</p>

[Taliasa]

<cite>Rashaak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>By strict you mean what? </p><p><img src="http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/4197/guildsiq7.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="772" height="554" /></p><p>See the two top guilds on this list?  Yah....not recruiting...but because their recruiters are on line and they have a lot of members...they take up two spots that could go to guilds that are well....a bit more diserving...</p><p>Rothgar....I seriously think you need to take a larger look at this rather than telling us 'this is why this happens' approach. I don't want any more stupid work arounds. Make this thing work the way it should of 3 years ago or just get rid of it...</p><p>If it doesn't help ALL players and ALL guilds on EVERY server...then it is not a useful tool in the slightest...</p></blockquote>I noticed this as well while on my alt that leads a small guild. Same listing, 25 guilds listed, mine wasn't one of them. Top two closed to recruiting, yet showing up.

[GrunEQ]

<span style="font-size: x-small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I've been checking the recuiting list during play time for the past week and things I have noticed on Nek server....the MOST listed have been 27 guilds....no way near 40, and sometimes only 14 listed...and mine wasn't one of the 14.  Why is the recuitment window not showing a full 40?  A lot more small guilds would then have some presents if the full 40 were implemented.  There is a big need for filters.  </span>

[Odys]

Why the 40 limit (We could use a next pages buton to avoid scrolling on 100 guilds)Indication of the number of on line people could be added

[Armawk]

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just a 'report' from a small guild in case its useful.</p><p>Blackburrow server. Small guild, level 24. 2 recruiters online, noone afk. 14 guilds showing in the guild window. No sign of us in there.</p><p>Shaun</p></blockquote><p>Who were you doing the search with. As I understand it, it shows the best guilds that are recruiting for the level range you are at. So if you log in your level 20 char, you should not see the level 80 mostly guilds, but instead guilds with an average level around what you have logged in. </p><p>Some people seem to forget this point, and when their guilds have alot of players of various levels bringing down the average level of the guild to say, 30, then when a level 80 logs in from that same guild and does a search to see where they stand in the recruitment windows, they don't see their guild, but instead all the level 80 raiding guilds that are just exhibiting their guild...</p></blockquote>That should only matter if there were 40 guilds listed though no? with only 14 listed then ours should be up, even if it was the 15th!

[Rothgar]

Thursday morning we plan on hot-fixing a new feature.  This isn't something we normally do mid-GU cycle, but we wanted to make some changes to the guild recruiting window in time for the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=421743#4701918" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Guild Recruiting Faire</a> happening this weekend.The recruiting window will still perform a default search when it is opened.  However, we've changed the metrics to hopefully provide better results.  Guilds that have players within 10 levels of your character will be weighted higher than before.  Also, recruiters are no longer required to be online for your guild to show up.  While this might not provide instant gratification to those that are seeking to speak with a guild at that moment, they will at least see a wider variety of guilds and can perhaps contact one of the recruiters at a later time.In addition we've added a filter window that will allow you to customize your search a bit more.  The filter window will let you specify the playstyle, up to 2 descriptive tags and more.We've also added a new field to the recruiting tab on the guild window... minimum level.  The default search will show guilds that are recruiting up to 10 levels higher than your character.  The advanced filter will let you specify any minimum level, or none at all.Also, guilds will no longer show up in a search if none of the archetype checkboxes are checked.These changes were done on relatively short notice and unfortunately we've found at least one bug that slipped through.  We are planning on hotfixing this bug on Friday.  (Something else we rarely do)Hopefully everyone will find this new recruiting window to be much more user friendly.

[TabrisNightwind]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thursday morning we plan on hot-fixing a new feature.  This isn't something we normally do mid-GU cycle, but we wanted to make some changes to the guild recruiting window in time for the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=421743#4701918" target="_blank">Guild Recruiting Faire</a> happening this weekend.The recruiting window will still perform a default search when it is opened.  However, we've changed the metrics to hopefully provide better results.  Guilds that have players within 10 levels of your character will be weighted higher than before.  Also, recruiters are no longer required to be online for your guild to show up.  While this might not provide instant gratification to those that are seeking to speak with a guild at that moment, they will at least see a wider variety of guilds and can perhaps contact one of the recruiters at a later time.In addition we've added a filter window that will allow you to customize your search a bit more.  The filter window will let you specify the playstyle, up to 2 descriptive tags and more.We've also added a new field to the recruiting tab on the guild window... minimum level.  The default search will show guilds that are recruiting up to 10 levels higher than your character.  The advanced filter will let you specify any minimum level, or none at all.Also, guilds will no longer show up in a search if none of the archetype checkboxes are checked.These changes were done on relatively short notice and unfortunately we've found at least one bug that slipped through.  We are planning on hotfixing this bug on Friday.  (Something else we rarely do)Hopefully everyone will find this new recruiting window to be much more user friendly.</blockquote><3. <3. <3. A change I've been waiting for...for a LONG time. Glad to see this thing is finally getting some well deserved attention.

[Taevin]

Thanks for the quick turnaround on this Rothgar! I'm looking forward to seeing the improved tool.

[Powers]

Outstanding!  Truly, truly outstanding.  This sounds like what we all hoped the tool would be all along.I'll be logging in around 8 PDT to check it out.  =)  Any advance warning on what the bug is?Powers  &8^]

[Rijacki]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thursday morning we plan on hot-fixing a new feature.  This isn't something we normally do mid-GU cycle, but we wanted to make some changes to the guild recruiting window in time for the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=421743#4701918" target="_blank">Guild Recruiting Faire</a> happening this weekend.</blockquote>Has the issue of less than 40 guilds showing up been addressed? or are the improved filters suppose to "fix" that issue?

[DaFriar]

Way to go Dev team! A clear case of listening to feedback and adjusting as necessary! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Let's see how it goes!!

[Razlath]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thursday morning we plan on hot-fixing a new feature.  This isn't something we normally do mid-GU cycle, but we wanted to make some changes to the guild recruiting window in time for the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=421743#4701918" target="_blank">Guild Recruiting Faire</a> happening this weekend.The recruiting window will still perform a default search when it is opened.  However, we've changed the metrics to hopefully provide better results.  Guilds that have players within 10 levels of your character will be weighted higher than before.  Also, recruiters are no longer required to be online for your guild to show up.  While this might not provide instant gratification to those that are seeking to speak with a guild at that moment, they will at least see a wider variety of guilds and can perhaps contact one of the recruiters at a later time.In addition we've added a filter window that will allow you to customize your search a bit more.  The filter window will let you specify the playstyle, up to 2 descriptive tags and more.We've also added a new field to the recruiting tab on the guild window... minimum level.  The default search will show guilds that are recruiting up to 10 levels higher than your character.  The advanced filter will let you specify any minimum level, or none at all.Also, guilds will no longer show up in a search if none of the archetype checkboxes are checked.These changes were done on relatively short notice and unfortunately we've found at least one bug that slipped through.  We are planning on hotfixing this bug on Friday.  (Something else we rarely do)Hopefully everyone will find this new recruiting window to be much more user friendly.</blockquote>Thank you very much for this Rothgar and team.  Having the Guild Tool working effectively is great news.  I don't think anyone wants to recruit in open chat, but the previous tool left little choice if you wanted to build up a guild quickly especially if you were aiming towards raiding in that guild (so you need 24 peeps).  This should help a lot and is very much appreciated.

[Noaani]

<p>Now that the guild recruitment window does not limit itself to guilds with recruiters online, I was able to look at the number of guilds being listed.</p><p>After looking at the window from 3 accounts, 25 different toons ranging in level from 9 to 80, both guilded and unguilded, I can say that reguardless of what is supposed to be happening, there is never more than 25 guilds on the list.</p><p>I don't know if this was changed in this last patch, but that is how many are being listed. Other than that, they were some nice changes added in.</p>

[Rothgar]

<cite>Powers wrote:</cite><blockquote> Any advance warning on what the bug is?</blockquote>Yes, if you scroll all the way down in the list, and then do a new filter that would yield less results, the display can become corrupted.  This won't cause a crash, but the information is not correct.  Pressing one of the scroll buttons should fix the display.  This bug will be hotfixed tomorrow.I'm sure we'll make additional tweaks to the window, possibly even before the next game update.  I did notice that its capping at 25, so I'll look into that further.Since we no longer require recruiters to be online, I was thinking about removing the recruiter picture from the mini guild display on the left.  This would give us more room to put other information.  For example, I'd like it to show all archetypes that the guild is recruiting instead of just displaying the icon for YOUR archetype.

[Anordil]

<p>Oh, my goodness, Rothgar, thank you, thank you, thank you! </p>

[Brook]

<p>Just having a working filter and choice of selection is all many of us ever wanted. Thank you and the team for taking a little time to get this straight finally.</p>

[TabrisNightwind]

Aye, now that I've gotten a chance to play around with it, I too have noticed that the tool still caps out mid-20s-ish. But, they know this and are lookin' at it. That's all that matters *nods.*I'm having mixed feelings though about the offline guilds and their recruiting. I mean...yea, when it was just only the guilds that were online, and the supposed cap was 40, there seemed to be enough "room". So, I guess what I'm saying is, will guilds with recruiters online get higher priority over the ones that don't have recruiters online? A list of guilds with no recruiters online don't help much :3.Other than that, awesome job. I'm loving the new filter system.

[GrunEQ]

<span style="font-size: x-small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I posted in Community News before reading this....so I'm glad you are looking into the number of guilds listed.  Many thanks for working on this!</span>

[Writer Cal]

<p>Thank you, thank you, thank you for working on this!  And thank you for looking into the lower than 40 display cap.  These all sound like great changes.</p>

[Locano]

I really appreciate your effort in helping improve the recruiting tool.  I do have a few comments, though.<span class="postbody"><i>Also, recruiters are no longer required to be online for your guild to show up.</i>I really don't like this change.  I think it makes sense for a recruiter to have to be online (and not afk) for their guild to display on the recruiting window because it shows that the times the guild members are on are the same time that the potential recruit is on.  I think the Filter tool is great!  Big thumbs up on that!It seems that the recruiting tool still isn't showing the 40 guilds it is supposed to (currently 23 on Antonia Bayle).  Please fix this as soon as you can =D</span>

[Writer Cal]

<p>Mostly all great changes so far.</p><p>I actually don't mind that it shows guilds when no recruiters are on.  We ironically got a new recruit this way, the time she was looking happened to be when we weren't on, but then she kept an eye out for us and tracked us down later.</p><p>However:  Is there a way to weight it so guilds with recruiters on get higher priority than those that don't?</p>

[GrunEQ]

<p><span style="font-size: x-small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">So far only 25 guilds or LESS showing up on guild recuit....please make the full 40 show up or every guild show up if less than 40.  Even less than 25 show up and still guilds that have recuiters are not listed....what gives?</span></p>

[Dassault]

<p>Crushbone server.  Only 17-22 guilds show up depending on the filters that are set.. none of them are showing our guild and we have active recruiters online with all the right settings.</p><p>Doesn't look like it's yet working correctly. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Pusska]

Just a quick note here to say that according to my list, our guild is not showing up in the 'default' listing. But I asked someone from another guild and according to them we WERE listed in their default listing. So perhaps another change here is that you cannot see your own guild listed?Might be worth checking with someone outside your guild at least. I haven't figured out what is happening with it just yet.

[Kaalenarc]

<p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Can we please get an option (preferably the default) to show guilds with recruiters online only?  AB has a huge number of guilds and Im sure  many are being left off the list because their spots are being taken by guilds that are offline. (doesnt affect me personally but its something I hear often.)</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Also - theres no contact option for offline guilds. If the recruiter isnt online when I am playing - what is the liklihood that he will be? Add an in game email button...</span></p>

[greenmantle]

<cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Can we please get an option (preferably the default) to show guilds with recruiters online only?  AB has a huge number of guilds and Im sure  many are being left off the list because their spots are being taken by guilds that are offline. (doesnt affect me personally but its something I hear often.)</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Also - theres no contact option for offline guilds. If the recruiter isnt online when I am playing - what is the liklihood that he will be? Add an in game email button...</span></p></blockquote><p>QFE currently it seems the only choice to expand a small guild is spam like an idiot through the level channels bugging people because the list is permacamped by the same large guilds. Last time i checked during late night play 2/3 of those had no recruiters on line yet my guild with recruiters on line looking for late night players didnt show up <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The current system will just contine the problaem that smaller guilds wither and die and leave the game leaving just the mega guilds. </p>

[Shadowman19]

<p>ok i am logged on right now with my lvl20 char,on Nektulos server,i am looking at the guild recruiting window and the top 2 listed guilds have NO recruiters on line yet they are on the top of the list.</p><p>And only 24 listed guilds.</p>

[SisterTheresa]

<cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Can we please get an option (preferably the default) to show guilds with recruiters online only?  AB has a huge number of guilds and Im sure  many are being left off the list because their spots are being taken by guilds that are offline. (doesnt affect me personally but its something I hear often.)</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Also - theres no contact option for offline guilds. If the recruiter isnt online when I am playing - what is the liklihood that he will be? Add an in game email button...</span></p></blockquote><p>There should be a spot for a guild leader to put a web address (if they have any) and doesn't the name of the recruiter show up?  Write it down.</p><p>And why should the online guilds get priority?  Isn't fair for those who play certain times (such as mine whose main play times are 8pm EST and afterwards)</p><p>No kidding it doesn't affect you ... duh.</p>

[Noxxia]

As of today, the guild recruitment window on the Butcherblock server still does not function correctly. My level 52 guild with no minimum requirements for joining very rarely shows up, if it all, even with 5-6 recruiters online at multiple levels. I do however, have the unique opportunity to see 8-10 guild that are recruiting with no one on in my recruitment window. I am like hey, if there is no one on, what is the point of that guild even being listed. I have had recruiters on for 24-48 hours straight and cant get the guild in the window and meanwhile there is a huge amount of seemingly deaad guilds that are listed. I would think if you were recruiting for your guild and your guild showed up as having no one on for an entire day, what you are advertising is "We are not available to help your toon", because basically, the proof is right there.

[Ashlian]

They simply need to increase the number of available guilds that show up on the recruitment list. You can't tell me that there are some kind of limitations that they have on server space so they can't do a nice sort for us. So give us a better list, please.  Also, the change to show guilds with no online recruiters was a bad one. If you can't be bothered to have recruiters online then your guild is not that interested in recruitment. Give the guilds who actually have people online available for recruitment the priority please.

[Razlath]

<cite>Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>They simply need to increase the number of available guilds that show up on the recruitment list. You can't tell me that there are some kind of limitations that they have on server space so they can't do a nice sort for us. So give us a better list, please.  Also, the change to show guilds with no online recruiters was a bad one. If you can't be bothered to have recruiters online then your guild is not that interested in recruitment. Give the guilds who actually have people online available for recruitment the priority please.</blockquote><p>I agree but for slightly different reasons. There are 24 hours in a day and most guilds cover maybe 4 of them well.  By having guilds show that are not online you are forced to slog through a list of guilds who probably don't even play during your playtime.  At the very least there should be an option to include / not include offline guilds (a checkbox right on the front window not buried in the search screen).  It isn't a matter of whether your guild deserves recruit space or not because you are not online, but instead a matter of the usefulness for people looking for a guild.  What good does it do for someone to get excited about a guild and go through the trouble to contact them when they play 2am to 5am EST and I play 7pm to 9pm CST?</p>

[Ama]

I've had some recent problems with the guild window Rothgar.  For some reason i've seen nights where a guild has no recruiters online yet their guild is listed while my guild has atleast 2-3 recruiters online that are not AFK. 

[Fenris]

I don't know for sure if it caps out at 40, but it does cap out. I occassionally go looking thru the guild recruitment window to gather ideas to keep things fresh for our own Guild Recruitment window without sounding repeatative with other guild's postings. Also, from time to time, I like to check out other guilds demographics without always having to hop into EQ2Players site to do so and the recruiting window usually helps with the info I'm looking for at the time. There are times I am looking for a specific guild to show up, and this is usually when someone has asked about the recruiting tool and have gone thru and set it up or are setting it up. I'll hunt for them trying to see if they show. They don't. So it would seem that the tool is somewhat broken if this happens, which from the various guild leaders that I have helped with information on how to set up it is. I will usually follow the recruitment window for several days after helping other guild leaders to see if the not showing issue is similiar to how EQ2Players is broken and doesn't update stuff for up to a week with still no luck.

[tikasa]

<cite>Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>They simply need to increase the number of available guilds that show up on the recruitment list. You can't tell me that there are some kind of limitations that they have on server space so they can't do a nice sort for us. So give us a better list, please.  Also, the change to show guilds with no online recruiters was a bad one. If you can't be bothered to have recruiters online then your guild is not that interested in recruitment. Give the guilds who actually have people online available for recruitment the priority please.</blockquote><p><span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;"> No recruiter should mean they are not listed.   If no one is on when you are playing why would you want to join them?   Also the biggest guilds never drop off even if they do not have a recruiter on for days...    </span></p><p><span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">    </span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;"> Your policy for guild halls encourages guilds to grow.. but you only make it possible for the big guilds to keep growing</span>...</span></p>

[GrunEQ]

<p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Since you have had this up there has been a cap of 25 listings.  The listings show large guilds who at times have no one on recuiting, or are not recuiting at this time.  I'm about fed-up.  Why should these guilds be showing up when there are plenty of guilds out there who are recuiting and have recuiters on in the game not showing up?  Please enlarge your list and de-list those that are not recuiting or no recuiters are on in game.  </span></p>

[Rothgar]

I've gone ahead and re-enabled the restriction that you now must have a recruiter online before you show up in the list.  Also, you'll no longer get higher priority the more recruiters you have.  Having at least 1 recruiter online is just as good as having 5.  We're way past the cutoff for 48 so expect to see this in GU49.

[Ama]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've gone ahead and re-enabled the restriction that you now must have a recruiter online before you show up in the list.  Also, you'll no longer get higher priority the more recruiters you have.  Having at least 1 recruiter online is just as good as having 5.  We're way past the cutoff for 48 so expect to see this in GU49.</blockquote>Personally i'm just happy if this change is put in since i'm in a very great guild, but we're rarely seen on the guild recruiting page.  Some nights we're lucky and we make it 2-3rd from the very bottom of the page, but it's not too satisfying when there are 4-6 guilds on the page with 0 recruiters online.

[Tommara]

<p>Size really doesn't matter. At least with respect to the guild recruiting window.  If people are only interested in "big", we don't need your help to figure that out.  People seeking big guilds don't need your help to figure out which ones to seek, and the big guilds don't need your help finding recruits.</p><p>You need to dump the "quantitative" factors entirely, in favor of "qualitative" factors.</p>

[Wenshen]

<p>The tool is still broken as of this date.  Please fix it so that in an unfiltered state, ALL guilds with online recruiters are shown, not just the top 20 most "active".  I've no problems with the huge zerg guilds being listed at the top (as someone previously mentioned, they've earned that right) but when the majority of users don't bother with filters at all,  the "mom & pop" guilds have the RIGHT to be listed in an unfiltered state, even if it's towards the bottom.</p>

[Gilasil]

<p>It's been awhile  since I used that tool, but I think that if you put in some search criteria and if you're specific enough you'll pretty much get everything which fits that criteria, simply because there will be less then 20 guilds which do.</p><p>If you're looking for a guild it only makes sense to put in search criteria.  If you're looking for a hardcore raiding guild, you do not want to even look at casual guilds which never raid and vice versa.</p><p>So my advice to anyone looking for a guild is to use the search criteria to select only the guilds whose playstyles they're looking for.</p>

[Middleone]

<p><cite>Wenshen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The tool is still broken as of this date.  Please fix it so that in an unfiltered state, ALL guilds with online recruiters are shown, not just the top 20 most "active".  I've no problems with the huge zerg guilds being listed at the top (as someone previously mentioned, they've earned that right) but when the majority of users don't bother with filters at all,  the "mom & pop" guilds have the RIGHT to be listed in an unfiltered state, even if it's towards the bottom.</p></blockquote><p>Ditto, 100 times ditto.  The guild recruiting tool is broken on Freeport server still, as of today 6/10/2012.  Guilds with zero recruiters online are shown while my guild with a recruiter online all the time ( we have at least 4 actual people recruiting, all hardcore, who pretty much do 24/7 coverage ), and at least 2-4 people online during weekdays, and up to 12 people on weekends, we almost NEVER show up on the guild recruiting page.  So we spam chat.  What are we supposed to do?  Suffer in silence?  If it takes four years to NOT fix this, then how long will it take to fix it?  This thread is 4+ years old. It was started by a developer, so someone was sometime thinking about fixing it.  IT IS STILL BROKEN.  I only see about 10-12 guilds listed at all, if that. </p><p>PS:  Gee I'm so glad I'm a recurring gold member, because when I put in a trouble ticket for this, they told me to read this thread.  The thread informed me that nothing has changed in four years and more.   Maybe EQ2 is abandonware now. They maybe laid off the developer and hired a bunch of CS people to tell us to use forums to vent our frustrations and get noplace in four years. </p><p>My point is, SOE is unresponsive to customer concerns, even when the concerns are brought up by their own developers in a public forum.  The whole point of this thread seems to have been to explain what the original intent was of a broken and buggy technology that WILL NOT be fixed. </p><p>Let me give you a brief synopsis of this thread:</p><p>Developer;  original intent was to make it work like X</p><p>Customers: it works like Y, we want Z or at least X</p><p>Developer; well ok, shucks, maybe it doesn't really work like X after all, but maybe I can make it work like A in the release after next...</p><p>Customers: uhh.... lots of time has passed and you haven't delivered on your promises</p><p>Developer; <silence></p><p>So the developer had good intentions to fix something, but something got in the way, a manager, a project manager, or some bean counter somewhere, or maybe a job change.  Truth is, someone in SOE (the developer) went to a lot of trouble to listen to us and try to fix someting, but then got stomped on by... (who knows?).   </p><p>And now they (customer service) have the audacity to refer to this thread as if it was some kind of authority on how things work when someone like me, a guild leader, recurring gold member, puts a trouble ticket into their system. </p><p>I have to call a spade a spade.  This is dirty double dealing.  The problem is not fixed, and nothing in this thread explains why.</p>