New RE zone loot. [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Freliant

06-05-2008, 11:56 AM

Could you post some of the loot please. And I believe they said that Runnyeye 2 min drop would be legendary and go up from there. Also, if I understand what you are saying... they decided to add gear that specifically makes runnyeye 2 easier to run, then why are you complaining? They are making gear that will not overpower already existing gear, but that helps you out in a particular zone. IMO that sounds great. Should be done more often with more zones. If the fabled are geared towards completing that zone, even better. No longer will group loot be overpowering towards other content, which is very good for a game.If they had done this from the begining, then there would be very little mudflation to worry about in EQ2. Right now, whenever a new expansion is done, in order to keep people interested, they had to make things better than the other loot already in the game, but with this direction, they are NOT making it more powerfull than already existing loot, unless you are in Runnyeye 2. Specific armor/weapon for a specific zone. Again, please post what you have found so that we can have a better idea of what you are talking about.

Kizee

06-05-2008, 11:59 AM

<cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>So then what your telling me is you have killed every boss in the zone and seen every piece of loot? All 50+ drops already?There are nicer items as you get deeper and there are also some nice fabled items. Again, none of these items should overshadow raid gear. So raiders most likely will not run this zone for gear.There is however 71 to 80 masters on a smart loot table.</blockquote>No I haven't killed evey mob in zone but from what I have been seeing it can't get much worse......oh wait yes it could from SoE's track record.1 suggestion.....making loot where that loot can only be used in that zone = not many people wanting to get it (unless there are going to be tons of goblins in the next expansion). Why don't you remove the bane proc restrictions for goblins.

Freliant

06-05-2008, 12:02 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>1 suggestion.....making loot where that loot can only be used in that zone = not many people wanting to get it (unless there are going to be tons of goblins in the next expansion). Why don't you remove the bane proc restrictions for goblins.</blockquote>By making loot good, but "better" in a specific zone, they are doing the game a favor. I checked out some of the loot posted on EQ2Flames, and this is an interesting addition to the game. Just because you can't trash all the other stuff you worked for and use this new stuff does not mean that it is inferior. It was designed to be better inside runnyeye 2 than on any other setting, and this is a very good thing to offset mudflation.

Kizee

06-05-2008, 12:03 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, if I understand what you are saying... they decided to add gear that specifically makes runnyeye 2 easier to run, then why are you complaining? They are making gear that will not overpower already existing gear, but that helps you out in a particular zone. </blockquote>Why would people wast time to get gear that can only be used in the zone that you get it? It really doesn't make sence.If you want to see the items go to "that other sight".

Noaani

06-05-2008, 12:03 PM

<cite>Kander wrote:</cite> <blockquote>There is however 71 to 80 masters on a smart loot table.</blockquote>Masters on smart loot?For reallies?

Kizee

06-05-2008, 12:05 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>1 suggestion.....making loot where that loot can only be used in that zone = not many people wanting to get it (unless there are going to be tons of goblins in the next expansion). Why don't you remove the bane proc restrictions for goblins.</blockquote>By making loot good, but "better" in a specific zone, they are doing the game a favor. I checked out some of the loot posted on EQ2Flames, and this is an interesting addition to the game. Just because you can't trash all the other stuff you worked for and use this new stuff does not mean that it is inferior. It was designed to be better inside runnyeye 2 than on any other setting, and this is a very good thing to offset mudflation.</blockquote>So is this going to be a new trend? Will I need to carry a whole set of armor in my bags for each zone I want to run? I hope not because I don't want my bags and bank stuffed with 20 different types of armor.

Freliant

06-05-2008, 12:05 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, if I understand what you are saying... they decided to add gear that specifically makes runnyeye 2 easier to run, then why are you complaining? They are making gear that will not overpower already existing gear, but that helps you out in a particular zone. </blockquote>Why would people wast time to get gear that can only be used in the zone that you get it? It really doesn't make sence.If you want to see the items go to "that other sight".</blockquote>You are a raider... you have raid gear... and that gear will be better than anything that drops in this new zone. I only group now because of constraints to my time, and I would love to run this zone for this type of gear. You do not find it great, but that is compared to what you already have. I found it adequate and I would be very interested in running the zone.

Kizee

06-05-2008, 12:07 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite> <blockquote>There is however 71 to 80 masters on a smart loot table.</blockquote>Masters on smart loot?For reallies?</blockquote>Well if thats the case then there is the reason for running it along with just muteing everything else.

Kizee

06-05-2008, 12:08 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, if I understand what you are saying... they decided to add gear that specifically makes runnyeye 2 easier to run, then why are you complaining? They are making gear that will not overpower already existing gear, but that helps you out in a particular zone. </blockquote>Why would people wast time to get gear that can only be used in the zone that you get it? It really doesn't make sence.If you want to see the items go to "that other sight".</blockquote>You are a raider... you have raid gear... and that gear will be better than anything that drops in this new zone. I only group now because of constraints to my time, and I would love to run this zone for this type of gear. You do not find it great, but that is compared to what you already have. I found it adequate and I would be very interested in running the zone. </blockquote>I am still using some level 70 raid gear...shouldn't the items in the zone be an upgrade for those pieces?

Freliant

06-05-2008, 12:08 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>1 suggestion.....making loot where that loot can only be used in that zone = not many people wanting to get it (unless there are going to be tons of goblins in the next expansion). Why don't you remove the bane proc restrictions for goblins.</blockquote>By making loot good, but "better" in a specific zone, they are doing the game a favor. I checked out some of the loot posted on EQ2Flames, and this is an interesting addition to the game. Just because you can't trash all the other stuff you worked for and use this new stuff does not mean that it is inferior. It was designed to be better inside runnyeye 2 than on any other setting, and this is a very good thing to offset mudflation.</blockquote>So is this going to be a new trend? Will I need to carry a whole set of armor in my bags for each zone I want to run? I hope not because I don't want my bags and bank stuffed with 20 different types of armor.</blockquote>Raided gear will be better overall, so if you want to have the one size fits all type armor, just get the raided pieces. And I already carry many different armors for different types of groups. Some groups need me to dehate myself, some to debuff mobs more, and others to just do full dps. So I always carry with me those situational armors. Macro's are your friends, and at level 80, everyone should have enough strength to carry 4+ 36 slot boxes...

Freliant

06-05-2008, 12:10 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am still using some level 70 raid gear...shouldn't the items in the zone be an upgrade for those pieces?</blockquote>Actually, some T7 loot is only level 70 in appearance, but have the stats of T8 equipment. So the answer is no, they don't HAVE to be upgraded by gear in this zone. Heck, I didn't upgrade my T5 fabled pieces till I got to T7. The effects were way better than anything I could get in T6.

Clowd

06-05-2008, 12:13 PM

For the love of all that is good in Norrath, can we stop freakin' complaining about the loot here?I mean, honestly. I like the idea of the "Bane" equipment line, it seems like a nice idea and this Goblin bane gear could be VERY useful for something like Master Spell farming in RE. Also, that EQ2Flames post only shows 15 pieces of equipment. FIFTEEN! Kander said there are OVER FIFTY. You're complaining about a mere 30% of the loot if you're going by what was posted there on EQ2Flames. I haven't even seen the fabled loot yet.To quote someone from EQ2flames: "I said it before and saying it again - God himself could not implement something in this game that people wouldn't [complain] about, even if they have no clue what they are even [complaining] about yet."

liveja

06-05-2008, 12:18 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>1 suggestion.....making loot where that loot can only be used in that zone = not many people wanting to get it (unless there are going to be tons of goblins in the next expansion). Why don't you remove the bane proc restrictions for goblins.</blockquote>Your suggestion makes it sound like you think there won't be any goblins in the next expansion. Is there some reason you think that? After all, note that Bloodlines included procs that were only good against vampires, which weren't exactly common elsewhere in EQ2 ... yet, EOF comes out, & voila! Vampires everywhere!I think your criticisms are premature.

ke'la

06-05-2008, 12:32 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>So then what your telling me is you have killed every boss in the zone and seen every piece of loot? All 50+ drops already?There are nicer items as you get deeper and there are also some nice fabled items. Again, none of these items should overshadow raid gear. So raiders most likely will not run this zone for gear.There is however 71 to 80 masters on a smart loot table.</blockquote>No I haven't killed evey mob in zone but from what I have been seeing it can't get much worse......oh wait yes it could from SoE's track record.1 suggestion.....making loot where that loot can only be used in that zone = not many people wanting to get it (unless there are going to be tons of goblins in the next expansion). Why don't you remove the bane proc restrictions for goblins.</blockquote>Last I checked, with only a few exceptions every zone in game has at least a few goblins, and I know every Tier has a bunch... in fact I think there are more Goblins in game then Orcs or Gnolls, in fact I think the only inteligent mob more plentiful then goblins are skeletons, so I think a proc to goblins will be useful in many a situation.

Vilayet

06-05-2008, 12:34 PM

"There is however 71 to 80 masters on a smart loot table."Does this work as I think it would? If a Master1 is going to drop, smart loot checks all 6 peoples' spellbooks and finds one that is missing between 71 and 80 and then drops?Does it check against Apprentice or Adept level? both/neither?What if you don't have the spell scribed at all?What if you have a Master2?If spell smart loot works anything like armor smart loot, then every mob that could drop a Master1 would have EVERY single spell/combat art from 71-80 on its loot table O.o-Vila

ke'la

06-05-2008, 12:36 PM

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>1 suggestion.....making loot where that loot can only be used in that zone = not many people wanting to get it (unless there are going to be tons of goblins in the next expansion). Why don't you remove the bane proc restrictions for goblins.</blockquote>Your suggestion makes it sound like you think there won't be any goblins in the next expansion. Is there some reason you think that? After all, note that Bloodlines included procs that were only good against vampires, which weren't exactly common elsewhere in EQ2 ... yet, EOF comes out, & voila! Vampires everywhere!I think your criticisms are premature.</blockquote>On top of that Flaye unlike with Bloodlines, Goblins are already everywhere. I can only think of a few zones, and no Tiers that don't have goblins in them.

Pelda

06-05-2008, 12:49 PM

megasajan1

06-05-2008, 12:49 PM

Ya know,i have every Piece of Armor i need out of the 4 ( minus Koru..) Rok-Instances. Still run those to for Masterdrops for my Class (who dont drop anyway). That said,if the RE2 has a higher Chance to drop Masters,than i dont freaking care what useless Items drop and run that every Day.

Detor

06-05-2008, 12:50 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fyreflite, I thought you might have learned something by your lazy itemization in RoK. Not all healers are druids.....quit making all the healercentric gear LEATHER! </blockquote>What I don't understand is why they don't just revert the change that makes leather bad for most healers. The change "Your avoidance no longer is based on the armor type, but instead what type of armor your class is expected to wear. Eg a templar avoidance is treated as plate even when in leather." is the real problem. It would be far less of a issue if a templar in leather armor had the avoidance of someone in leather, but instead what they end up with is the avoidance of plate, and the mitigation of leather for an end result of them being more fragile than mages.Just one change and suddenly people would be far less critical of the primarily leather centric approach they took with healer gear in RoK.

Mheryl

06-05-2008, 01:00 PM

I ran this zone last night in a 5 man group (warden and fury healers, so we were gimped from the start, lol) but we did all but 2 named.I liked the zone, old Runnyeye set up but some new folks have moved in. You even get to meet a few of the displaced runnyeye goblins and they aren't happy!As far as the loot... I don't raid anymore so as a warden I was pretty much wearing the wayward moon set and have some other bits and pieces I wear situationally. I didn't find any upgrades in the loot we got although if I switch to melee there were a couple of the quest rewards I might switch out.We got zero master drops. Not sure how rare they are going to be, but smart loot or not, if they are so rare they don't drop at all it's not going to do much good.The end boss is an x2 mob and we didn't figure that one out yet. Also the gassy guy didn't go down as it was late and we didn't feel like thinking that hard, but we'll go back and finish with maybe a few group modifications if necessary.

Kander

06-05-2008, 01:07 PM

Smart loot means it should drop a master for someone in your group. It does not look at what you have in your spell book.

MoeSizlak

06-05-2008, 01:18 PM

<cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>Smart loot means it should drop a master for someone in your group. It does not look at what you have in your spell book.</blockquote>While this is greatly appreciated...any chance you can add all the previous tier masters that don't get upgraded to the loot tables as well?Farming lower tier content or praying one drops and it actually goes on the broker just don't work for alot of the old T6 AT masters. I can't count the number of trips I've make through Poets the last year and I have yet to see Double Up drop...and i've never seen it on the broker in 2 years.

Kizee

06-05-2008, 01:18 PM

<cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>Smart loot means it should drop a master for someone in your group. It does not look at what you have in your spell book.</blockquote>Well its not really smart loot then. Yes, it is better than it is in other zones but some masters (cough...templar) are rarer than others.Maybe make it so it checks spellbooks?

madha

06-05-2008, 01:29 PM

<cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>Smart loot means it should drop a master for someone in your group. It does not look at what you have in your spell book.</blockquote>I agree with dropping nonupgraded spells as well even though some group mates might be upset that a t5 master drops ina t8 zone, when the spell doesnt upgrade it shoulndt master casue it will still sale for a ton if u have it allrdy.. And i would agree looking at your spell book is far to overpowerd for smart loot on masters. The final named is a X2 thast almost guarantie a master drop, and with smart loot you go from 1/24 chance the master can be used by you to 1/6. heck even if you have it allrdy your going to come back over and over to get the master drop. You can allwasy brooker the master or trade it for one you dont have. In anycase 200+pp for master should come down if we farm the heck out of this zone. Can we use the master spell smart loot in raids now too pretty please. Our guild doesnt have a ranger thast all we get to drop on raids..The loot looks inline for the zone maybe they learned their lesson about ubbe roverpowerd heroic instance loots that doesnt have a radi drop upgrade. Goblin proc could be more ubber against goblin thast would be fine =P

Noaani

06-05-2008, 01:57 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>Smart loot means it should drop a master for someone in your group. It does not look at what you have in your spell book.</blockquote>Well its not really smart loot then. Yes, it is better than it is in other zones but some masters (cough...templar) are rarer than others.Maybe make it so it checks spellbooks?</blockquote>While I would love it if it did check spell books, simply having it drop masters only for classes that are present is a huge step forward.As to masters from previous tiers that are not upgraded, no thanks. I don't want to go off killing any mob in T8, named or otherwise, and find that I have a level 25 master drop in a fabled chest.Assuming you have a single friend in the game (or more, more is good) then those masters are not at all hard to get, if you and your friend(s) are willing to put in the time it takes to get them.

Zabjade

06-05-2008, 02:03 PM

Even if you already have said master, the brokers is currently a sellers market for masters I mean I seen them way in the 30p (one Master would wipe me out, Again!) Basically complainers are complaining about trash-drops? o.O??? This is a group Zone not a Raid Zone this is so you can get gear that gets you in the Door to raids not nets you Top tier raid gear.

Mr. Dawki

06-05-2008, 02:09 PM

<cite>Kander wrote:</cite> <blockquote>There is however 71 to 80 masters on a smart loot table.</blockquote>Kander leme try and clarify this one. Smart loot on masters. Which means you get a master of one of the classes in your group and no others?In a way I like this, but in a much larger way I hate it. What if I would like a master for an alt, what if i go in hoping for some masters to sell? A lot of people in my guild are nearly fully masterd and only run instances for the chance at a master for other guildies. If the loot is not going to overshadow raid loot (and I am not saying that is a bad thing) and the masters only drop for the classes in group. I have nearly no reason to go into the new RE. I cannot help my fellow guildies unless they are in my group. Thumbs down on the master smart loot.

liveja

06-05-2008, 02:15 PM

<cite>Mr. Dawkins wrote:</cite><blockquote>So in short the amount of masters on the broker will not increase, because nothing will drop that cannot be scribed by someone in the group.</blockquote>The more Swashy masters that drop, the fewer I'll have to search out on the broker, & the less money I'll spend getting them, so I really don't care much about this "issue" at all.

MoeSizlak

06-05-2008, 02:26 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>Smart loot means it should drop a master for someone in your group. It does not look at what you have in your spell book.</blockquote>Well its not really smart loot then. Yes, it is better than it is in other zones but some masters (cough...templar) are rarer than others.Maybe make it so it checks spellbooks?</blockquote>While I would love it if it did check spell books, simply having it drop masters only for classes that are present is a huge step forward.As to masters from previous tiers that are not upgraded, no thanks. I don't want to go off killing any mob in T8, named or otherwise, and find that I have a level 25 master drop in a fabled chest.Assuming you have a single friend in the game (or more, more is good) then those masters are not at all hard to get, if you and your friend(s) are willing to put in the time it takes to get them.</blockquote>That's easy for you to say, judging by your avatar you play a wizard that only has 1 spell that wasn't upgraded at the expansion. Try playing a class that has 6 CAs that aren't upgraded in Tier 8, one of which at last check still wasn't even DISCOVERED on all servers. On Unrest it was discovered in Feb of this year...for a CA that went in prior to the first expansion.And for the record, since you seem to think having friends is the answer...I'm in a guild with almost 150 account and almost 400 characters in it, I check the broker daily and I still can't get my lower tier masters, so yeah, your friends arguement holds about as much water as a colander.

Mr. Dawki

06-05-2008, 02:34 PM

Flay, you have:Smart loot1) 1 in 6 chance that a master of your class will drop, unless you bring more swashys2) It appears there is already a low chance on the masters off the named anyway3) The more masters you get the less likely it is one you needNon-smart loot1) The entire server has the potential to loot and sell the master you need and vice versaThe number of players that could run through that instance in one day far outweighs the odds of your one chance a day.Masters in T7 were much easyer to track down and buy the ones you needed because there was not smart loot. Now if this is the devs way of saying, work for your masters and don't buy them. That is one thing, but so far nothing has been said to this effect. I know a few people in T8 that actualy have every master for their class, why would they even botehr with this zone when they can just as easily go to a different zone for stuff they could sell for a profit?And for the record 90% of my masters in T7 were traded for other masters I had looted, no plat needed. In T8 I saw my first assassin master drop yesterday. Every other master I have was bought because they are so crazy rare. In T7 I could look up masters and find 4 pages worth, T8 there are 4 masters up and they have been there for the last month because people priced them all at 200 plat due to the rarity of just getting a master at all.I am not asking for a zone to be a master factory, but for god sake with the smart loot I highly doubt there will be an increase of decent assassin masters on the broker at all.

RingleToo

06-05-2008, 02:36 PM

<cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>So then what your telling me is you have killed all 9 bosses in the zone and seen every piece of loot? All 50+ drops already?There are nicer items as you get deeper and there are also some nice fabled items. Again, none of these items should overshadow raid gear. So raiders most likely will not run this zone for gear.There is however 71 to 80 masters on a smart loot table.</blockquote>I sure think a smart loot table for masters is a Great idea. (If I want a master for an alt, I'll run my alt thru the zone. And if the alt isn't high enough, then I can wait until it is high enough). And even if raiders do run this zone for gear (actually, I think they will, certainly for the masters), they'll be a single group like everybody else, right? Pretty much everyone is on an even playing field. A contested zone is a contested zone, doesn't really matter who is contesting it.

liveja

06-05-2008, 02:58 PM

<cite>Mr. Dawkins wrote:</cite><blockquote>I highly doubt there will be an increase of decent assassin masters on the broker at all.</blockquote>I'll take my chances with the smart loot, & run instances until I get the masters I want, without having to pay ridiculously over-inflated prices to someone that won a greed roll.

Sonorod

06-05-2008, 03:49 PM

Seriously, why not instead of masters dropping that either no one wants, i.e. master's sitting on broker for 3 months as transmutter fodder, or instead of masters that are so deisred/rare that at 200+pp they are snatched up in minutes, just make a system where a fabled trinket drops and can be turned into an npc for a master of your choosing for your class?

Detor

06-05-2008, 03:57 PM

<cite>Mr. Dawkins wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite> <blockquote>There is however 71 to 80 masters on a smart loot table.</blockquote>Kander leme try and clarify this one. Smart loot on masters. Which means you get a master of one of the classes in your group and no others?In a way I like this, but in a much larger way I hate it. What if I would like a master for an alt, what if i go in hoping for some masters to sell? A lot of people in my guild are nearly fully masterd and only run instances for the chance at a master for other guildies. If the loot is not going to overshadow raid loot (and I am not saying that is a bad thing) and the masters only drop for the classes in group. I have nearly no reason to go into the new RE. I cannot help my fellow guildies unless they are in my group. Thumbs down on the master smart loot.</blockquote>There are a ton of zones that already give random masters. All this is doing is giving those that want masters to drop that they actually have a shot at needing (same class) a place to go. I wouldn't be surprised though if the next expansion did this for all the instances, and had the contested areas be the place to go if you want masters for people not with you.

Brinelan

06-05-2008, 04:20 PM

You are all assuming that the drops will only be of masters that you do not have. That is not the case as was said a few pages ago. It will drop a master of a class that is present, it may be of one you already have. So I fail to see how that means that there will be no masters dropping that people can sell. You keep the first one that drops, and sell the duplicates.

Fyreflyte

06-05-2008, 04:27 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fyreflite, I thought you might have learned something by your lazy itemization in RoK. Not all healers are druids.....quit making all the healercentric gear LEATHER! </blockquote>I still have my fingers crossed that one of these days you will learn to spell my name correctly =/ Not sure what gave you the impression that there was a greater portion of priest loot in this zone, but that is not the case. For every piece of priest armor, I created 3 pieces. 1 leather, 1 chain, and 1 plate, and placed them on a smartloot table within the regular treasure table. If you saw a bunch of leather priest loot, the zone was probably being run by a group with a druid in it.

Noaani

06-05-2008, 04:33 PM

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fyreflite, I thought you might have learned something by your lazy itemization in RoK. Not all healers are druids.....quit making all the healercentric gear LEATHER! </blockquote>I still have my fingers crossed that one of these days you will learn to spell my name correctly =/ Not sure what gave you the impression that there was a greater portion of priest loot in this zone, but that is not the case. For every piece of priest armor, I created 3 pieces. 1 leather, 1 chain, and 1 plate, and placed them on a smartloot table within the regular treasure table. If you saw a bunch of leather priest loot, the zone was probably being run by a group with a druid in it.</blockquote>lol, nice.I may be wrong, but I think Kizee is getting his info on loot from <a href="http://www.eq2flames.com/items-equipment/26584-loot-impressions-re2.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this</a> thread, which as you can see, had 2 druids healing.

Kizee

06-05-2008, 04:50 PM

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fyreflite, I thought you might have learned something by your lazy itemization in RoK. Not all healers are druids.....quit making all the healercentric gear LEATHER! </blockquote>I still have my fingers crossed that one of these days you will learn to spell my name correctly =/ Not sure what gave you the impression that there was a greater portion of priest loot in this zone, but that is not the case. For every piece of priest armor, I created 3 pieces. 1 leather, 1 chain, and 1 plate, and placed them on a smartloot table within the regular treasure table. If you saw a bunch of leather priest loot, the zone was probably being run by a group with a druid in it.</blockquote>I apologize. I missed that they were quest rewards. I will cross my fingers and hope for some plate items with good procs on them.I just get annoyed because 99% of healer loot with good procs are chain or leather.

Fyreflyte

06-05-2008, 05:21 PM

Well I did take note of the general discontent on that subject from last expansion. Pretty much everything I've been designing for priests has been repeated for each armor type. Hopefully it will give relatively equal balance to each of the armor-subclasses.Let me know how it works out when you have a chance to test it yourself =)

Deggials

06-05-2008, 05:40 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>Smart loot means it should drop a master for someone in your group. It does not look at what you have in your spell book.</blockquote>Well its not really smart loot then. Yes, it is better than it is in other zones but some masters (cough...templar) are rarer than others.Maybe make it so it checks spellbooks?</blockquote>While I would love it if it did check spell books, simply having it drop masters only for classes that are present is a huge step forward.As to masters from previous tiers that are not upgraded, no thanks. I don't want to go off killing any mob in T8, named or otherwise, and find that I have a level 25 master drop in a fabled chest.Assuming you have a single friend in the game (or more, more is good) then those masters are not at all hard to get, if you and your friend(s) are willing to put in the time it takes to get them.</blockquote>From what i gather the poster who suggested dropping previous tier masters that werent upgraded were talking about the percentage based spells i.e tier 7 spells that didnt make it into tier 8 not anything level 25-tier 6.

Ronny

06-05-2008, 06:18 PM

One thing I'm curious about. One of the loot pieces I've seen is called "Looted Halfling Ring" a part of the 4 piece set called Usla's Magickery.Now in that set, there are 3 set bonuses, 1 for having 2 pieces, one for 3 and one for 4. The 2 piece bonus aside from Goblin Bane adds +1 spell crit and +10 spell dmg. 3 pieces gives Greater Bane, +2 spell crit and +20 spell dmg4 pieces gives +2 spell crit and Arcane Rec 2.Now, my question is, how do the bonuses stack? Do they all stack together giving you a total of +5 spell crit, +30 spell dmg and Arc Rec 2?Or does the second bonus overwrite the first bonus and then stack with the third for a total of +4 spell crit, +20 Spell dmg and Arc Rec 2?Or, are they mutually exclusive and you have to choose which bonus you prefer by equipping the right amount of pieces?And in a related question, do the 2 Gobling Bane procs act as separate procs if you have 3 pieces, or does the Greater Bane overwrite the first one and act as an upgrade to it?

flowercivicsi

06-05-2008, 06:22 PM

Smart Loot Masters is an awesome idea, any hopes that you may possibly do this for other instanced zones within RoK?

Fyreflyte

06-05-2008, 06:38 PM

<cite>Ronny wrote:</cite><blockquote>One thing I'm curious about. One of the loot pieces I've seen is called "Looted Halfling Ring" a part of the 4 piece set called Usla's Magickery.Now in that set, there are 3 set bonuses, 1 for having 2 pieces, one for 3 and one for 4. The 2 piece bonus aside from Goblin Bane adds +1 spell crit and +10 spell dmg. 3 pieces gives Greater Bane, +2 spell crit and +20 spell dmg4 pieces gives +2 spell crit and Arcane Rec 2.Now, my question is, how do the bonuses stack? Do they all stack together giving you a total of +5 spell crit, +30 spell dmg and Arc Rec 2?Or does the second bonus overwrite the first bonus and then stack with the third for a total of +4 spell crit, +20 Spell dmg and Arc Rec 2?Or, are they mutually exclusive and you have to choose which bonus you prefer by equipping the right amount of pieces?And in a related question, do the 2 Gobling Bane procs act as separate procs if you have 3 pieces, or does the Greater Bane overwrite the first one and act as an upgrade to it? </blockquote>All of the bonuses stack. I actually had to redo the Goblin Bane procs because we ran into some technical difficulties with putting 2 procs on a single set (this may be worked out in the future). I replaced the 2-piece bonuses with Greater Goblin Bane and placed a damage enhancer to the goblin bane on the 3 piece bonus.Wearing this entire set, you would receive 5 spell crit, 30 spell damage, Arcane Rec 2, and an enhanced damage version of Greater Goblin Bane (in addition to the stats on the individual pieces).

Mr. Dawki

06-05-2008, 07:09 PM

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wearing this entire set, you would receive 5 spell crit, 30 spell damage, Arcane Rec 2, and an enhanced damage version of Greater Goblin Bane (in addition to the stats on the individual pieces).</blockquote>Here is my problem Fyreflyte. An entire set of 5 legendary pieces give 5 crit and 30 dmg. This is instance loot. or5 Treasured pieces that I solo quested for, and I could have 6-7 crits and near 200 + spell dmgYou see where I am going with this? Now I understand I have only seen some of the loot and not all, but 90% of the loot that was legendary that I have seen out of RE2, I could probably show you something of equal or greater value that comes from the RoK solo quests. Edit: I dont take the goblin bane into account at all. Why? This is instance loot and thus will be used in other instances. It is useless in any other instance.

MoeSizlak

06-05-2008, 07:21 PM

<cite>Deggials wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>Smart loot means it should drop a master for someone in your group. It does not look at what you have in your spell book.</blockquote>Well its not really smart loot then. Yes, it is better than it is in other zones but some masters (cough...templar) are rarer than others.Maybe make it so it checks spellbooks?</blockquote>While I would love it if it did check spell books, simply having it drop masters only for classes that are present is a huge step forward.As to masters from previous tiers that are not upgraded, no thanks. I don't want to go off killing any mob in T8, named or otherwise, and find that I have a level 25 master drop in a fabled chest.Assuming you have a single friend in the game (or more, more is good) then those masters are not at all hard to get, if you and your friend(s) are willing to put in the time it takes to get them.</blockquote>From what i gather the poster who suggested dropping previous tier masters that werent upgraded were talking about the percentage based spells i.e tier 7 spells that didnt make it into tier 8 not anything level 25-tier 6.</blockquote>If a spell/CA has no upgrade, no matter what level it is, I would like to see it drop in RE2. Rescue? Bring it on. Ruthless Cunning (lvl 35 rogue BL spell) yes please. The odds on getting one of them is going to be pretty remote anyway, like a 1 in 180 chance of getting but that's still better odds than trying to either farm for one while mentored or with an alt and if you are leveling an alt for raiding some of those old T6 spells are impossible to get masters for but are needed. It's been a problem for a long time, it's time there was a solution.

Fyreflyte

06-05-2008, 07:36 PM

<cite>Mr. Dawkins wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Here is my problem Fyreflyte. An entire set of 5 legendary pieces give 5 crit and 30 dmg. This is instance loot. or5 Treasured pieces that I solo quested for, and I could have 6-7 crits and near 200 + spell dmgYou see where I am going with this? Now I understand I have only seen some of the loot and not all, but 90% of the loot that was legendary that I have seen out of RE2, I could probably show you something of equal or greater value that comes from the RoK solo quests. Edit: I dont take the goblin bane into account at all. Why? This is instance loot and thus will be used in other instances. It is useless in any other instance.</blockquote>That is a 4 piece set, not 5, and that is in addition to the stats on the items themselves (which you made no mention of).All stats considered, the set you are referencing gives roughly double the spell crit, damage, and reuse speed that you'd be able to find on an equal number of treasured RoK jewelries.

ClawHammr

06-05-2008, 09:07 PM

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mr. Dawkins wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Here is my problem Fyreflyte. An entire set of 5 legendary pieces give 5 crit and 30 dmg. This is instance loot. or5 Treasured pieces that I solo quested for, and I could have 6-7 crits and near 200 + spell dmgYou see where I am going with this? Now I understand I have only seen some of the loot and not all, but 90% of the loot that was legendary that I have seen out of RE2, I could probably show you something of equal or greater value that comes from the RoK solo quests. Edit: I dont take the goblin bane into account at all. Why? This is instance loot and thus will be used in other instances. It is useless in any other instance.</blockquote>That is a 4 piece set, not 5, and that is in addition to the stats on the items themselves (which you made no mention of).All stats considered, the set you are referencing gives roughly double the spell crit, damage, and reuse speed that you'd be able to find on an equal number of treasured RoK jewelries.</blockquote>InterestingThis zone requires level 80 to enter ? I am not far off ( 77.5)

x0rtrun

06-05-2008, 09:46 PM

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well I did take note of the general discontent on that subject from last expansion. Pretty much everything I've been designing for priests has been repeated for each armor type. Hopefully it will give relatively equal balance to each of the armor-subclasses.Let me know how it works out when you have a chance to test it yourself =)</blockquote>While I am glad you're doing something for the healers, how bout something for brawlers? +heal gear has zero appeal for us, but it's on 99% of dropped leather. The mitigation on leather also seems really stingy most of the time and not much better than T7. How are we supposed to tank with such weak sauce gear?

Noaani

06-05-2008, 10:47 PM

<cite>Tesar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's been a problem for a long time, it's time there was a solution.</blockquote>Short of a coding change, you have 3 options.Buy it on the broker.Mentor and farm it.Make do with an adept 3.If I get a fabled drop in a T8 instance, I expect to be able to transmute it for T8 components. If they add in each of these masters in a manner that allows me to transmute t for T8 components, then as far as I am concerned they can go for it.Otherwise, this is punishing those of us that have put the effort in to already getting them, as they would still have a chance to drop, and be virtually worthless to a T8 player.

Endorplasmic

06-05-2008, 10:53 PM

<cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is however 71 to 80 masters on a smart loot table.</blockquote>That's all I needed to read. Cheers.

Somatic

06-05-2008, 10:56 PM

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><blockquote><cite></cite></blockquote>That is a 4 piece set, not 5, and that is in addition to the stats on the items themselves (which you made no mention of).All stats considered, the set you are referencing gives roughly double the spell crit, damage, and reuse speed that you'd be able to find on an equal number of treasured RoK jewelries.</blockquote>Stats like +str / +agi /+ wis are meaningless once you reach a certain point. The only stats that matter in this game anymore are + spell dmg / +ca damage / +life (not +mana because of u guys have made mana pointless), + crit damage, + procs(only some--like ridiculous mana procs and heal procs / dmg procs-- NOT GOBLIN SPECIFIC PROCS LOLS--gear to use for ONE zone lolololz...oh wait i forgot about the goblin in Unrest!!!).That's the end game (level 80). That's what it's like now. Stats for the most part don't do crap anymore, or are so marginal in the grand scheme of things they are a joke.You even commenting about "stats" shows you do not know anything about the level 80 game, heroic or epic.

sah

06-05-2008, 11:10 PM

<cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote>That is a 4 piece set, not 5, and that is in addition to the stats on the items themselves (which you made no mention of).All stats considered, the set you are referencing gives roughly double the spell crit, damage, and reuse speed that you'd be able to find on an equal number of treasured RoK jewelries.</blockquote>Stats like +str / +agi /+ wis are meaningless once you reach a certain point. The only stats that matter in this game anymore are + spell dmg / +ca damage / +life (not +mana because of u guys have made mana pointless), + crit damage, + procs(only some--like ridiculous mana procs and heal procs / dmg procs-- NOT GOBLIN SPECIFIC PROCS LOLS--gear to use for ONE zone lolololz...oh wait i forgot about the goblin in Unrest!!!).That's the end game (level 80). That's what it's like now. Stats for the most part don't do crap anymore, or are so marginal in the grand scheme of things they are a joke.You even commenting about "stats" shows you do not know anything about the level 80 game, heroic or epic.</blockquote>Actually, you're not reading Fyreflyte's post correctly. A previous poster compared the combined set bonuses for having 4 pieces (+5 spell crit and +30 spell dmg) to the combined stats of 4 treasured items without factoring in the stats of the individual items providing the bonuses. For example, the Looted Halfling Ring, which is one of the items in the set, provides +1 spell crit and +40 spell dmg. In fact, in the sentence right below the one you bolded, Fyreflyte specifically stated that he was talking about spell crit, damage and reuse speed.

Somatic

06-05-2008, 11:28 PM

<cite></cite><blockquote><blockquote></blockquote>Actually, you're not reading Fyreflyte's post correctly. </blockquote>I think i am, the poster he quoted mentioned both spell crits and spell dmg--the stats he did not mention are the logical ones fire quoted as him not listing. -- just IMO

sah

06-05-2008, 11:55 PM

<cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think i am, the poster he quoted mentioned both spell crits and spell dmg--the stats he did not mention are the logical ones fire quoted as him not listing. -- just IMO</blockquote>Yes, the poster mentioned the spell crit and spell dmg from the set bonuses, not from the individual items in the set. If all 4 items in the set had equivalent stats to the one item I mentioned, then the combined bonus of the items and set bonuses would be about 2x spell crit and 5x spell dmg than the set bonuses alone would provide. So the poster's comparison of the 4 item set using only the set bonuses to 4 random treasured items was flawed and that is what Fyreflyte was pointing out in his post.

Somatic

06-06-2008, 12:15 AM

<cite>sahet wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><blockquote></blockquote>Yes, the poster mentioned the spell crit and spell dmg from the set bonuses, not from the individual items in the set. If all 4 items in the set had equivalent stats to the one item I mentioned, then the combined bonus of the items and set bonuses would be about 2x spell crit and 5x spell dmg than the set bonuses alone would provide. So the poster's comparison of the 4 item set using only the set bonuses to 4 random treasured items was flawed and that is what Fyreflyte was pointing out in his post.</blockquote>Alright as long as she was not talking about the stats i mentioned like they mean anything in this game anymore I stand corrected.

Novusod

06-06-2008, 12:40 AM

Do you have something against making boots Fyreflyte. You wouldn't happen to be a halfling would you? So many other items but never any boots. Been using same treasured pair since November. Come on need boots.

MoeSizlak

06-06-2008, 01:00 AM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tesar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's been a problem for a long time, it's time there was a solution.</blockquote>Short of a coding change, you have 3 options.Buy it on the broker.Mentor and farm it.Make do with an adept 3.If I get a fabled drop in a T8 instance, I expect to be able to transmute it for T8 components. If they add in each of these masters in a manner that allows me to transmute t for T8 components, then as far as I am concerned they can go for it.Otherwise, this is punishing those of us that have put the effort in to already getting them, as they would still have a chance to drop, and be virtually worthless to a T8 player. </blockquote>How exactly would it be a "punishment" for a master spell/CA that is still being used by a character in the party to drop?And what if your first 2 options don't work? I check the broker daily for 3 level 52-58 masters, Amazing Reflexes, Double Up and Enraging Demeanor, and I haven't seen any of those 3 on the broker in a year and a half on Unrest. I have mentored or been on an alt and run MoM, Hidden Cache and Poets 50+ times each and never had any of those 3 drop. That's over a week of time for nothing...that's a hell of alot of effort so don't even try that arguement. And that's not to mention Ruthless Cunning, the Bloodlines CA that isn't upgraded for rogues that was only discovered a few months ago on Unrest, so it's highly likely that's the only time it has EVER dropped on the server in over 3 years.You want to transmute t8 masters, then run all the other t8 instances in the game and get your masters there, the odds there will be just as good of getting a master/fabled piece off the named, and since smart-loot isn't in effect there the odds that someone else in the group will need it will be less so you're more likely to win it to 'mute it.

InsertNeko

06-06-2008, 02:26 AM

Can we go a little more in depth with this spell related "smart loot" (that isn't really smart ... just kind of ... not dumb i guess). Will this "smart loot" master 1 system be only in RE 2.0 or will this be added to T8 instances / raids as well (or well ... could master 1's be added to raids at all /cough)? I didn't see this touched on, and was curious on it. (Despite the fact that M1's are almost nonexistant in ROK, this is a serious question).

ClawHammr

06-06-2008, 02:48 AM

I recommend Smart Loot for Necros in all T8 InstancesI have never seen a T8 Master Necro Pet on Broker

Rothgar

06-06-2008, 04:16 AM

I remember back in 2004/2005 when a master dropped it was a HUGE deal. The entire server would hear about it and it was really something to be proud of. Then fabled chests got more and more common. Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run. Make only masters drop that no one has scribed yet? Would you like fries with that? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Mariss

06-06-2008, 04:28 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember back in 2004/2005 when a master dropped it was a HUGE deal. The entire server would hear about it and it was really something to be proud of. </blockquote>I wish it was still like that <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Kander

06-06-2008, 04:47 AM

So apparently the Smart Loot does actually look at scribed spells. I honestly did not know that, as the code is rather new and it worked differently then I had intended it.So I am turning the smart loot down to 30% which means when a master drops, you have a 30% chance that it will be one that someone in the group needs for sure. The drop rates are remaining the same.

InsertNeko

06-06-2008, 05:21 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember back in 2004/2005 when a master dropped it was a HUGE deal. The entire server would hear about it and it was really something to be proud of. Then fabled chests got more and more common. Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run. </blockquote>Before I reply, I'd like to state that in no way is the "guaranteed a master" comment you've made true in any way shape or form. It never has been, and as much as I'd like to complain about it I hope it doesn't (but that's another story found in another forum, because M1's should be rare but not impossible as current). I'm going to assume (to avoid conspiracy theories) that the RNG hates me, because I'm seeing 1 M1 in about every 15-20 instance runs and until recently every name in every instance was dropping wood. Wood usually means there's no M1 in that chest. I say recently, because the last 3-4 instances I've done were almost all ornate which after 6 months of almost completely wood chests, having a VoeS/CoA complete ornate run is pretty surprising. So yea, I'm glad we're getting smart loot on the spell system, it's something we've needed since the addition of the armor based smart system; but I see no need to exaggerate the "guaranteed a master" line. And thanks Kander for explaining that, that's what i had wanted to know and appreciate you looking into it for us.

Lauraliane

06-06-2008, 05:37 AM

<cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>So apparently the Smart Loot does actually look at scribed spells. I honestly did not know that, as the code is rather new and it worked differently then I had intended it.So I am turning the smart loot down to 30% which means when a master drops, you have a 30% chance that it will be one that someone in the group needs for sure. The drop rates are remaining the same. </blockquote>Putting smart loot on a percentage kinda kill the concept of smart loot don't you think ? If you got a full group with 6 different class, I could say there was 25% chance of a "smart" loot before, since 6 classes represent 1/4 of the total 24 classes <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />So now, what is it ? Is it smart loot 30% + 25% of 70% ? for a total of 47,5% to get a master for a class of the group if you are 6 differents classes ? Or is it only 30% saying basically that if the "smart loot" don't trigger then you won't get a master for a class of the group ?Anyway, whatever it is 30% or 47,5% or even 50% aren't high enough to be called "smart" loot compared to the old 25%The only good thing is that I won't drop "Harvest Mana" or "Blade of Ro" even more, since it seems than before I only managed to drop the most useless masters in the world. But still with that small smart loot percentage the broker will stay filled with Sk and Paladin Master for a while.

ClawHammr

06-06-2008, 06:14 AM

ClawHammr

06-06-2008, 06:19 AM

Firecracker

06-06-2008, 06:24 AM

theriatis

06-06-2008, 06:44 AM

I would *love* to get another Master instead of "Harvest Mana", which we have a dozen on it in the Broker... and nothing more. Regardless of the Money you have, if the Master does not drop, you cannot buy it.Regards, theriatis.P.S. It's Hammer Time ! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

The-Plethora

06-06-2008, 07:26 AM

Anyone know what level enemies are going to be in here? up to 85 or so?. It's very unlikely but if it was complete smart loot then what would stop someone who has all but the most hard to get and expensive master disbanding from group when opening chest and each night getting the most valuable master 1 to drop and sell.I look forward to going through the zone and I must say it is very welcome having this level of dev feedback on a topic <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Terron

06-06-2008, 07:45 AM

<cite>Tesar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>And that's not to mention Ruthless Cunning, the Bloodlines CA that isn't upgraded for rogues that was only discovered a few months ago on Unrest, so it's highly likely that's the only time it has EVER dropped on the server in over 3 years.</blockquote>The Bloodlines masters only drop on the Bloodlines raid.They used to be no-trade, but that was changed last year, since when many have been discovered on new servers. It seems the raid has become more popular since then.I ran it myself once, and got 4 server discoveries, 1 fabled item and 3 treasured though no master.Unfortunately it isn't a very good raid. I don't think the way to go is the make the masters available elsewhere.I think that improving the current raid would be much better - e.g. by giving each of the names prior to the final bonus some special ability, one of the bloodlines ones would be appropiate, and making drop better than treasured stuff.Maybe make it an x2 raid so it is easier to get enough people for it.Perhaps add higher level raids in the same zone, or higher level versions of the same raid, corresponding to the levels of the upgrades to Bloodlines spells (53,71) dropping upgrading m,asters if there is an upgrade or the level 35 one if not.Smart loot for masters there might be good too.

zorkan

06-06-2008, 08:39 AM

Cragger

06-06-2008, 08:52 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember back in 2004/2005 when a master dropped it was a HUGE deal. The entire server would hear about it and it was really something to be proud of. Then fabled chests got more and more common. Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run. Make only masters drop that no one has scribed yet? Would you like fries with that? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>Really?, what game are you playing because I run instances all the time on multiple characters and I've got long dry spells amid the one or two good nights where 2 drop in an instance. Unless of course your talking about Tier 1-5 then yeah, but who's fault is that really? And what does it really matter for those tiers. When I make a new character I don't even bother with adepts let alone adept IIIs for 1-50 because you level and replace them so fast.

Kizee

06-06-2008, 08:55 AM

Kizee

06-06-2008, 09:01 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember back in 2004/2005 when a master dropped it was a HUGE deal. The entire server would hear about it and it was really something to be proud of. Then fabled chests got more and more common. Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run. Make only masters drop that no one has scribed yet? Would you like fries with that? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Back then everybody was content with adept 3's until you raided......now even the casuals think they are entitled to have full masters. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />BTW devs. Since adept 3 spells were suppost to be the top end for soloing/grouping and masters were the top end for raiders.....why do we have to farm heroic instances for masters since they seem to drop more in them than in raids? Maybe increase the droprate in raids and decrease the drop rates in heroic instances since soloers/groupers dont "need" masters.

Windowlicker

06-06-2008, 09:04 AM

Vilayet

06-06-2008, 09:05 AM

We actually have 2 devs posting in this thread and the funny thing? Doesn't seem like they are reading each others posts ...lolRothgar - "Make only masters drop that no one has scribed yet? Would you like fries with that?" -- 2 posts later --Kander - "So apparently the Smart Loot does actually look at scribed spells."/cheer Kander - you seem more informed as to what's going on.

liveja

06-06-2008, 09:07 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run.</blockquote>Rothgar, with all due respect, that's an exaggeration, & I'm sure you know it.

Windowlicker

06-06-2008, 09:09 AM

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run.</blockquote>Rothgar, with all due respect, that's an exaggeration, & I'm sure you know it.</blockquote>That's like looking at a third world country and saying "They aren't THAT hungry".You'd be lucky to see a master drop in an entire NIGHT of running instances. And that's between an entire group worth of players. Good luck on anyone actually needing it for anything beyond selling.Edit: I wonder if anyone's mentioned to him that there are some T8 masters still being discovered. It's JUNE.

theriatis

06-06-2008, 09:16 AM

<cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember back in 2004/2005 when a master dropped it was a HUGE deal. The entire server would hear about it and it was really something to be proud of. Then fabled chests got more and more common. Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run. Make only masters drop that no one has scribed yet? Would you like fries with that? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></blockquote>I'm not sure if this is news to you or not, but we didn't *like* those drop rates. To be honest, there's absolutely not skill or challenge involved with repeatedly killing the same mob 40 to 60 times to pickup a spell that may drop.It would be more preferable to have a high difficulty level on the mob, and need to kill it fewer times.</blockquote>I absolutely second that. I LOVED Nizara while it was really challenging, but the Mobs did drop Legendary & Masters, and i hated it with all my heart as it was nerfed to hell and got only wood chests in entire runs (with one legendary which the Boss dropped, of course).So: Higher Level of Difficulty please, but also higher Level of Rewards... thanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Ah, i also second what Windowlicker wrote... there are still masters to be discovered /worldwide/ and the next expansion is only a few months away....Regards, theriatis.

Lauraliane

06-06-2008, 09:18 AM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>So apparently the Smart Loot does actually look at scribed spells. I honestly did not know that, as the code is rather new and it worked differently then I had intended it.So I am turning the smart loot down to 30% which means when a master drops, you have a 30% chance that it will be one that someone in the group needs for sure. The drop rates are remaining the same. </blockquote>Meh...whats the point then. It's still gonna be "random" since you seem to have a weighted system on what drops.So tired of seeing the same ones over and over again.</blockquote>Hehe exactly, as I said earlier, it is only at most a 47,5% chance to have a master for the group, compared to 25% without smart loot. That's hardly impressive and should not be called smart loot at all.

Detor

06-06-2008, 09:42 AM

<cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run.</blockquote>Rothgar, with all due respect, that's an exaggeration, & I'm sure you know it.</blockquote>That's like looking at a third world country and saying "They aren't THAT hungry".You'd be lucky to see a master drop in an entire NIGHT of running instances. And that's between an entire group worth of players. Good luck on anyone actually needing it for anything beyond selling.Edit: I wonder if anyone's mentioned to him that there are some T8 masters still being discovered. It's JUNE. </blockquote>Well, he's going by the chance percentage probably, which is something like 10% for a named to have a master. Then looking at CoA that has 8 named so it's almost 80% chance in theory. It certainly feels like more than 10 kills per master, because it is. You can have 30 named with no master, then have 3 drop in the next 10. Or you might do 30 named, no master, then somebody else gets 3 in 10 kills without you ever knowing.

Sir Longsword

06-06-2008, 10:01 AM

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fyreflite, I thought you might have learned something by your lazy itemization in RoK. Not all healers are druids.....quit making all the healercentric gear LEATHER! </blockquote>I still have my fingers crossed that one of these days you will learn to spell my name correctly =/ Not sure what gave you the impression that there was a greater portion of priest loot in this zone, but that is not the case. For every piece of priest armor, I created 3 pieces. 1 leather, 1 chain, and 1 plate, and placed them on a smartloot table within the regular treasure table. If you saw a bunch of leather priest loot, the zone was probably being run by a group with a druid in it.</blockquote>Does this healer plate have any STR for us Inquisitors or will it be the STA, WIS, INT gear our Templar colleagues would wear? Right now I would guess the 3 sets of leather, chain, and plate will not benefit the melee loving Inquisitors, Mystics, and Wardens.

Liral

06-06-2008, 10:53 AM

<cite>Clowd@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>For the love of all that is good in Norrath, can we stop freakin' complaining about the loot here?I mean, honestly. I like the idea of the "Bane" equipment line, it seems like a nice idea and this Goblin bane gear could be VERY useful for something like Master Spell farming in RE. Also, that EQ2Flames post only shows 15 pieces of equipment. FIFTEEN! Kander said there are OVER FIFTY. You're complaining about a mere 30% of the loot if you're going by what was posted there on EQ2Flames. I haven't even seen the fabled loot yet.To quote someone from EQ2flames:"I said it before and saying it again - God himself could not implement something in this game that people wouldn't [complain] about, even if they have no clue what they are even [complaining] about yet."</blockquote><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Perfectly said.

AngusMcLachlan

06-06-2008, 11:14 AM

My only request is to start seeing some plat and chain armor that has identical stats to the leather for healers, just make it plate or chain. I'm sick of seeing a leather drop with +crit heal or other nice stats, and the plate version drops and it's got CRAP....

Somatic

06-06-2008, 12:07 PM

<cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>So apparently the Smart Loot does actually look at scribed spells. I honestly did not know that, as the code is rather new and it worked differently then I had intended it.So I am turning the smart loot down to 30% which means when a master drops, you have a 30% chance that it will be one that someone in the group needs for sure. The drop rates are remaining the same. </blockquote>I'd be very very careful with this. People will abuse it. A smart group will use this to farm plat. Say everyone in the group is fully mastered except ONE spell that is adept 3.That one spell is the most sought after -- rarest master for their class.This 1 group goes in and gets one of those masters every few days or so and sells it on the broker for ridiculous plat.This is how this will be abused. If this new loot rule works everywhere in the game and not just in this zone it will be even more ridiclous.Scout classes now can solo KC and other heroic content with ease due to stun locks and the fact Avoidance being 100 times better than crappy mitigation (what do you do when monsters attack for 3.5k vs 6000 mit plate values--- EASY u just don't get hit--so [Removed for Content]).

Freliant

06-06-2008, 01:03 PM

<cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>So apparently the Smart Loot does actually look at scribed spells. I honestly did not know that, as the code is rather new and it worked differently then I had intended it.So I am turning the smart loot down to 30% which means when a master drops, you have a 30% chance that it will be one that someone in the group needs for sure. The drop rates are remaining the same. </blockquote>I'd be very very careful with this. People will abuse it. A smart group will use this to farm plat. Say everyone in the group is fully mastered except ONE spell that is adept 3.That one spell is the most sought after -- rarest master for their class.This 1 group goes in and gets one of those masters every few days or so and sells it on the broker for ridiculous plat.This is how this will be abused. If this new loot rule works everywhere in the game and not just in this zone it will be even more ridiclous.Scout classes now can solo KC and other heroic content with ease due to stun locks and the fact Avoidance being 100 times better than crappy mitigation (what do you do when monsters attack for 3.5k vs 6000 mit plate values--- EASY u just don't get hit--so [I cannot control my vocabulary]).</blockquote>So... you are saying... a group of 6 players goes into a zone, that have all masters except one highly sought after? Wow... that is... really far out there. If they have all masters, they are probably raiders... which means, that "really" sought after spell would be one of the first ones to have been purchased. But lets say you are right... that still means that if a master will drop, it will have a 30% chance of it being that particular master that is needed. IMO, that would be good that it gets farmed that often, because it will drive the prices down... however, that is still WAY far off. It will be a little more common, but not enough to be even remotely a problem.I would have loved it if they left it completely smart loot... but I guess people spoke about it so much that someone investigated and we got it nerfed before it even went to live. heh, o well, thems the way the fayberry cookie crumbles... Edit: o, and not many people have "ridiculous" amounts of plat just lying around. Since the drop rate would be better, those that DO have the money, will most likely want to farm the zones anyways. Still not a big problem.

Somatic

06-06-2008, 01:13 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote></blockquote>So... you are saying... a group of 6 players goes into a zone, that have all masters except one highly sought after? Wow... that is... really far out there.</blockquote>Depends on if the smart loot is global across the game or just this one zone. Also depends how hard the zone is. Can do all of COA, vaults (except last guy), chelsith (fisherman), KC -- all of these with just two people. some of the ones listed 1 person can do if they are the right class.So if the new zone can be done (of even if most of it can be completed minus one or two named) with a solid 3 man group -- expect it to happen.

Freliant

06-06-2008, 01:21 PM

<cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite> <blockquote><blockquote></blockquote>So... you are saying... a group of 6 players goes into a zone, that have all masters except one highly sought after? Wow... that is... really far out there.</blockquote>Depends on if the smart loot is global across the game or just this one zone. Also depends how hard the zone is. Can do all of COA, vaults (except last guy), chelsith (fisherman), KC -- all of these with just two people. some of the ones listed 1 person can do if they are the right class.So if the new zone can be done (of even if most of it can be completed minus one or two named) with a solid 3 man group -- expect it to happen. </blockquote>Forgive my ignorance... but... Global? What are you talking about. Smart Loot checks whoever dealt damage to the mob and makes the drop give what is needed by those people. Also, I know a group of highly skilled players on test that did this zone, and they attempted it with 5 people. They cleared all cept the last 2 bosses and got all legendary... not one master during their run. So don't worry about the zone being "farmed" for masters. They will be lucky to get masters/fabled, and even luckier to get that really "sought after" master.As for Chelsith being 1 manned... yeah, wizzies can do SOME of the mobs in there, but not all. And even when they do its a 75/25 chance they will survive. Duos work better if one of the 2 is a healer, and a 3 man group can do alot, however, its still very time consuming and rough. So if they want to do that on their own, more power to them. The way Runnyeye is designed though, you can not skip content as you can in Chelsith, which means farming with anything less than 3 is just virtually impossible on a timely manner.

einar4

06-06-2008, 01:39 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember back in 2004/2005 when a master dropped it was a HUGE deal. The entire server would hear about it and it was really something to be proud of. Then fabled chests got more and more common. Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run. Make only masters drop that no one has scribed yet? Would you like fries with that? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote> Oh yes, back in the "good old days" when it was possible to hunt using adept I and Apprentice IV, and crafted armor and weapons were actually a pretty viable type of gear for hunting even the high end content. Oh no thank you, I don't need fries. But if it's not too much trouble, I would like some eating utensils and a paper cup to hold my drink, as cupping the water in my hand and slurping food directly from a piece of tissue paper gets a little ungainly. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Rothgar

06-06-2008, 01:55 PM

<cite>Detor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run.</blockquote>Rothgar, with all due respect, that's an exaggeration, & I'm sure you know it.</blockquote>That's like looking at a third world country and saying "They aren't THAT hungry".You'd be lucky to see a master drop in an entire NIGHT of running instances. And that's between an entire group worth of players. Good luck on anyone actually needing it for anything beyond selling.Edit: I wonder if anyone's mentioned to him that there are some T8 masters still being discovered. It's JUNE. </blockquote>Well, he's going by the chance percentage probably, which is something like 10% for a named to have a master. Then looking at CoA that has 8 named so it's almost 80% chance in theory. It certainly feels like more than 10 kills per master, because it is. You can have 30 named with no master, then have 3 drop in the next 10. Or you might do 30 named, no master, then somebody else gets 3 in 10 kills without you ever knowing.</blockquote>Actually I was just going based on my experience playing. Sure, I don't get a master every time, but I can't count the number of times I've run CoA and we've seen 2-4 masters drop. It seems to me that the average is very close to 1 per run.True, I didn't work on the Smart Loot system for spells, so actually reading it on this thread was the first I heard about it. Thats the beauty of working on a large team where everyone is working on their own projects, even we get surprised sometimes! I think the idea of dropping a guaranteed "needed" master 30% of the time is a great idea. Most of the time it will still be pretty random, but the chances of getting a spell you can use is much better than without the Smart Loot system.I really don't see a group of people trying to farm a specific spell by manipulating which masters they scribe. The chance of it dropping that master would still be low. Since you can't unscribe a spell, you'd pretty much be stuck trying to farm one spell unless you wanted to start all over with a new alt. There are easier ways to make a plat in the game. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Anekuh

06-06-2008, 02:06 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>I really hope the loot gets better than what I have seen so far. I know you guys designed yourself into a corner but wow...just wow.If the loot that we haven't seen yet is compairable to what we have seen then I don't think anybody will use the zone after 1 run thru to see it.Goblin bane items.....LOL......why would anybody want loot that is only effective on goblins unless next expanion will have a ton of them.Fyreflite, I thought you might have learned something by your lazy itemization in RoK. Not all healers are druids.....quit making all the healercentric gear LEATHER! </blockquote>I will have to agree on this. Why would you add a Goblin bane proc to a set of gear??? DO you want us to carry another set of gear on us just for this instanced??????

Somatic

06-06-2008, 02:34 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I really don't see a group of people trying to farm a specific spell by manipulating which masters they scribe. The chance of it dropping that master would still be low. Since you can't unscribe a spell, you'd pretty much be stuck trying to farm one spell unless you wanted to start all over with a new alt. There are easier ways to make a plat in the game. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>I bet money it happens if the drop rate is around 1 master per run like COA.Worst case you get a random master anyway, best case you get money master. I'm talking about the most sought after masters, which since they are so sought after a ton of raiders still do not have them-- because they never drop in raid zones and they never hit the broker. -- that's the ones people will exploit this system to get....watch and see.With the expansion a lot of raiders out there get guild splits now every month, a few guilds members get over 700 plat splits a month!! (very few but there are some--they sell epic updates and other such "services" -- grats SOE on making Epics equal to plat values ;-0) and not skill ). So these rare sought after masters will still be sold for ridiculous amounts of plats ( i guess it's dependent per server tho).Someone asked me what i meant by "global" -- to clarify: Is new loot rules global (meaning all zones), or just this new RE only?Hopefully it's just this one zone, or it will defiantly be used just doing COA /Chelsith/Madiens/Vaults runs over and over.I personally think masters drop way too much. Two man group can do COA/chelsith around 1.5 hours and they are pretty much going to get at least one master, and possibly up to 4 (I've seen it happen multiple times).Another way to exploit this if you want to scribe your "good" masters-- is leave one crappy level 71 or 75 master at adept 3 and then u can go use the scribe merchants to try to get a random 71- 75 master that is rare. This won't work for some classes that cannot scribe masters tho. I'm on pvp server not usre if you can do this on pve. The thing is people don't need the "ultra-rare" master to do heroic content. Thus why greed will blind them and instead they will leave that spell/ca at adept 3 to increase their probability of getting the ultra-rare master and selling it for 100+plat. Sure it's not guaranteed but it's better than not having the extra chance.

AegisCrown

06-06-2008, 02:43 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Detor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run.</blockquote>Rothgar, with all due respect, that's an exaggeration, & I'm sure you know it.</blockquote>That's like looking at a third world country and saying "They aren't THAT hungry".You'd be lucky to see a master drop in an entire NIGHT of running instances. And that's between an entire group worth of players. Good luck on anyone actually needing it for anything beyond selling.Edit: I wonder if anyone's mentioned to him that there are some T8 masters still being discovered. It's JUNE. </blockquote>Well, he's going by the chance percentage probably, which is something like 10% for a named to have a master. Then looking at CoA that has 8 named so it's almost 80% chance in theory. It certainly feels like more than 10 kills per master, because it is. You can have 30 named with no master, then have 3 drop in the next 10. Or you might do 30 named, no master, then somebody else gets 3 in 10 kills without you ever knowing.</blockquote>Actually I was just going based on my experience playing. Sure, I don't get a master every time, but I can't count the number of times I've run CoA and we've seen 2-4 masters drop. It seems to me that the average is very close to 1 per run.True, I didn't work on the Smart Loot system for spells, so actually reading it on this thread was the first I heard about it. Thats the beauty of working on a large team where everyone is working on their own projects, even we get surprised sometimes! I think the idea of dropping a guaranteed "needed" master 30% of the time is a great idea. Most of the time it will still be pretty random, but the chances of getting a spell you can use is much better than without the Smart Loot system.I really don't see a group of people trying to farm a specific spell by manipulating which masters they scribe. The chance of it dropping that master would still be low. Since you can't unscribe a spell, you'd pretty much be stuck trying to farm one spell unless you wanted to start all over with a new alt. There are easier ways to make a plat in the game. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>so guess im lucky that ill possibly have 2 level capped swashbucklers when this goes live

kelesia

06-06-2008, 02:48 PM

Can I have this game that ya'll are playing? I do not have ridiculous amounts of plat. Especialy with teh way that spell rares have tripled in price in the last two weeks. I have five templar masters from 71-80. I am a hard core raider. My raid force would buy me my Masters IF THERE WERE ANY TO BE HAD. I have seen 2 templar masters drop during raid. Usually the junk we see is paladin or conjuror. I don't tend to sell masters, I give them to my friends and raid force because that is what you do when they are so rare. I will say this though, this expansion has severely tested my faith in eq2 devs. I thought it would be a great cncept but it really stunk. An expansion where the only way to lvl is solo quests? /yawn. It's why I haven't managed to get a second character to 80 and have 5 sitting between 70-75. I'm really hoping ya'll learned something from this expansion and that I'm not forced to go through another expansion of solo quests <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Brazarik

06-06-2008, 03:00 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite>Actually I was just going based on my experience playing. Sure, I don't get a master every time, but I can't count the number of times I've run CoA and we've seen 2-4 masters drop. It seems to me that the average is very close to 1 per run.True, I didn't work on the Smart Loot system for spells, so actually reading it on this thread was the first I heard about it. Thats the beauty of working on a large team where everyone is working on their own projects, even we get surprised sometimes! I think the idea of dropping a guaranteed "needed" master 30% of the time is a great idea. Most of the time it will still be pretty random, but the chances of getting a spell you can use is much better than without the Smart Loot system.I really don't see a group of people trying to farm a specific spell by manipulating which masters they scribe. The chance of it dropping that master would still be low. Since you can't unscribe a spell, you'd pretty much be stuck trying to farm one spell unless you wanted to start all over with a new alt. There are easier ways to make a plat in the game. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15">When people, especially a dev says that the average for a coa run is at least 1 master per run, i want to throw up. I used to run that zone every night with the same group and we would maybe get 1 master chest to drop every 10 runs. When people comment that they get 2-4 masters in one run and some cant even get 1 every 10 runs, then there is something definately wrong. I used to run instances every night and I have only seen 1 master drop that i could use and unfortunately i bought it off the broker 2 days prior. I think smart loot is a fine idea but correct me if im wrong, its useless if the master chests never drop. edited for spelling.

Somatic

06-06-2008, 03:15 PM

<cite>Inzilbeth@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am a hard core raider. My raid force would buy me my Masters IF THERE WERE ANY TO BE HAD.</blockquote>Exactly why this new system will be exploited. Bots, or groups of prospectors (me included) will simply target the spells that are the rarest and organize our groups to max out probability of those money spells to drop. Then we will get your guild bank to pay us for our services.Rinse and repeat.

Shemyaza

06-06-2008, 03:20 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>True, I didn't work on the Smart Loot system for spells, so actually reading it on this thread was the first I heard about it. Thats the beauty of working on a large team where everyone is working on their own projects, even we get surprised sometimes! </blockquote>non-communication between devs is one of the major flaws in eq2. thanks for bringing it into the open.

Zoltaroth

06-06-2008, 03:41 PM

<cite>Shemyaza wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>True, I didn't work on the Smart Loot system for spells, so actually reading it on this thread was the first I heard about it. Thats the beauty of working on a large team where everyone is working on their own projects, even we get surprised sometimes! </blockquote>non-communication between devs is one of the major flaws in eq2. thanks for bringing it into the open.</blockquote>To be fair, there is a difference between non-communication and not-every-dev-knows-the-exact-details-of-systems-they-didn't-implement. This thread actually prompted me to go re-read the smart loot code, and it's advanced quite a bit since it's initial inception, which is cool, but there aren't enough hours in the day for all of us to keep up on every change that goes into every system; nor does my brain have the ability to store that much data <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. You could probably kill an entire workday doing nothing but reading other people's updates if you tried to keep up with everything on such a micro level.

Kyrsten

06-06-2008, 03:55 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Detor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run.</blockquote>Rothgar, with all due respect, that's an exaggeration, & I'm sure you know it.</blockquote>That's like looking at a third world country and saying "They aren't THAT hungry".You'd be lucky to see a master drop in an entire NIGHT of running instances. And that's between an entire group worth of players. Good luck on anyone actually needing it for anything beyond selling.Edit: I wonder if anyone's mentioned to him that there are some T8 masters still being discovered. It's JUNE. </blockquote>Well, he's going by the chance percentage probably, which is something like 10% for a named to have a master. Then looking at CoA that has 8 named so it's almost 80% chance in theory. It certainly feels like more than 10 kills per master, because it is. You can have 30 named with no master, then have 3 drop in the next 10. Or you might do 30 named, no master, then somebody else gets 3 in 10 kills without you ever knowing.</blockquote>Actually I was just going based on my experience playing. Sure, I don't get a master every time, but I can't count the number of times I've run CoA and we've seen 2-4 masters drop. It seems to me that the average is very close to 1 per run.True, I didn't work on the Smart Loot system for spells, so actually reading it on this thread was the first I heard about it. Thats the beauty of working on a large team where everyone is working on their own projects, even we get surprised sometimes! I think the idea of dropping a guaranteed "needed" master 30% of the time is a great idea. Most of the time it will still be pretty random, but the chances of getting a spell you can use is much better than without the Smart Loot system.I really don't see a group of people trying to farm a specific spell by manipulating which masters they scribe. The chance of it dropping that master would still be low. Since you can't unscribe a spell, you'd pretty much be stuck trying to farm one spell unless you wanted to start all over with a new alt. There are easier ways to make a plat in the game. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>How convenient - a developer's instance runs gets an average of one master dropping per run, while the rest of us grind instances daily and are lucky to see an Ornate chest drop of a named.

Freliant

06-06-2008, 04:03 PM

<cite>Kyrsten wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Detor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run.</blockquote>Rothgar, with all due respect, that's an exaggeration, & I'm sure you know it.</blockquote>That's like looking at a third world country and saying "They aren't THAT hungry".You'd be lucky to see a master drop in an entire NIGHT of running instances. And that's between an entire group worth of players. Good luck on anyone actually needing it for anything beyond selling.Edit: I wonder if anyone's mentioned to him that there are some T8 masters still being discovered. It's JUNE. </blockquote>Well, he's going by the chance percentage probably, which is something like 10% for a named to have a master. Then looking at CoA that has 8 named so it's almost 80% chance in theory. It certainly feels like more than 10 kills per master, because it is. You can have 30 named with no master, then have 3 drop in the next 10. Or you might do 30 named, no master, then somebody else gets 3 in 10 kills without you ever knowing.</blockquote>Actually I was just going based on my experience playing. Sure, I don't get a master every time, but I can't count the number of times I've run CoA and we've seen 2-4 masters drop. It seems to me that the average is very close to 1 per run.True, I didn't work on the Smart Loot system for spells, so actually reading it on this thread was the first I heard about it. Thats the beauty of working on a large team where everyone is working on their own projects, even we get surprised sometimes! I think the idea of dropping a guaranteed "needed" master 30% of the time is a great idea. Most of the time it will still be pretty random, but the chances of getting a spell you can use is much better than without the Smart Loot system.I really don't see a group of people trying to farm a specific spell by manipulating which masters they scribe. The chance of it dropping that master would still be low. Since you can't unscribe a spell, you'd pretty much be stuck trying to farm one spell unless you wanted to start all over with a new alt. There are easier ways to make a plat in the game. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></blockquote>How convenient - a developer's instance runs gets an average of one master dropping per run, while the rest of us grind instances daily and are lucky to see an Ornate chest drop of a named.</blockquote>Actually, all devs (or at least most) have characters in our servers... they just don't state who they are. However, 1 drop per run of CoA is VERY exagerated, and that is something I wholeheartedly agree with. I have done SEVERAL runs of CoA, and I can tell you, from the 4th week the expansion came out (that I had a group to plow through CoA) till now, I can count the amount of masters I have seen on my hands, and the ones I have gotten... 1... yep, ROK is several months in, and I have only gotten one master from CoA. Never even seen a master that I could use drop, so I had to buy the 4 masters that I have, and the rest on the broker are just ridiculously high priced for a non-raider.

LygerT

06-06-2008, 04:17 PM

who really cares if people focus on getting the masters that are high in demand. again the word "exploit" is highly exaggerated, the whole intent of the system was to get people the masters they need wasn't it? if you think some farmer is going to make 1k plat a night "exploiting" this then i think you are high on crack.why are people trying to nerf this idea just because the worst case scenario(which is highly unlikely to be a real problem) pops into your heads?

Alrunes

06-06-2008, 04:28 PM

Actually I was just going based on my experience playing. Sure, I don't get a master every time, but I can't count the number of times I've run CoA and we've seen 2-4 masters drop. It seems to me that the average is very close to 1 per run.Please do not assume; Collect data, be sure of what you are saying. Using phrases like "It seems..." will do nothing but lead you to trouble. What you are "seeming" to see for a drop rate is not what many other aying customers are observing. I can tell you that many of my friends are leaving the game because they are bored with still running the same instances trying to obtain Masters that just are not droppingin instance or in raid. You are a developer, check the data, confirm the actual drop rates, check the projected drop rates...Impress us with your in depth examination of the issue and establish your facts before you make judgement calls about the drop rate.True, I didn't work on the Smart Loot system for spells, so actually reading it on this thread was the first I heard about it. Thats the beauty of working on a large team where everyone is working on their own projects, even we get surprised sometimes! This goes back to assuming instead of knowing. Why would you put a system in place that you did not fully understand. This is the type of problem that gets to the servers, and then causes needless stress for the player community and the staff. I know the developers are very busy, but if you dont know a system in and out, you really should stop for a second and read the notes before you use it. Edited for spelling

Windowlicker

06-06-2008, 04:49 PM

Smartloot for masters is a step in the right direction.To the Developers: Please don't delude yourselves into thinking the current drop rate is anything but totally broken, and totally absent. It's absolutely wonderful that your doing something to change this, and I think everyone will be grateful for both the increased chance, and the increased intelligence behind the drops.

Aeralik

06-06-2008, 04:57 PM

This actually isnt the first zone to use smartloot on spells. There is a zone on live which uses it now but I will let you guys figure out which one it is <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Somatic

06-06-2008, 04:59 PM

I personally think masters drop too often in heroic content. The problem is rather: too many masters drop in range from 76-80 compared to 71-75Master drops should be three rolls:A) roll to see if a master will drop Y-X. Say X is 10,000. to get a master to drop u must roll a 10,000. -- for solo content Y = 1. so you have to roll from 1 to 10,000 and get 10,000 to hit. -- for heroic content (non-named) Y=6000. -- for named heroic content , Y= 9700 -- for epic content, Y=9985If (A) happens then you do two more rolls.B) roll 1-24 for class: 1 = assasin, 2= templar...etcC) roll 1-9 for level.BAM -- way better random master drops and more fair.You could then also make cool items with special stats like +200 luck (+200 on the roll chance)+luck would only work on solo/heroic content, and only take into account the person in the group who has the highest luck.or perhaps let everyones luck count but have a hardcap on +luck.-- edited Y values a little seems a bit too unfair in examples for named heroic/heroic and epic kills

Somatic

06-06-2008, 05:00 PM

ShashLigai

06-06-2008, 05:17 PM

<cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>Smart loot means it should drop a master for someone in your group. It does not look at what you have in your spell book.</blockquote>How about a "slight?" change in the smart loot logic? Instead of checking all the players in the group, if a master drops (or any piece of eq as far as that goes), list the drop as a generic "master spell" and/or "legendary armor", etc. then after the players roll or the loot is distributed, have the code check the winners class and offer multiple random pieces (like the quest rewards) from which the players get to select one. This method solves several problems, loot is guaranteed to be useable by the group, it is much more likely that winners will get to select drops that they are going to use, never again will players roll on items that they can't use (since whatever they win is class specific), and it's likely that the numbers of players raiding will increase (I would raid more if I knew that if I did get a drop, I could use it). Finally, the loot can come from the existing loot tables, no need to recode the tables or the drop rates, the difference is in the selection of the final loot after the player is selected instead of before. (Actually this adds another layer of suspense, you don't know what you won until you click on the item in your bag, then you get the "guys, check this out!!" moment.I know changing code is challenging, but it seems as if the necessary code already exists, it's just a matter of adding to and reordering the drop process. Additionally, this method could be applied to all drops, not just raid drops.

Felipe

06-06-2008, 05:29 PM

<cite>Kyrsten wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Detor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run.</blockquote>Rothgar, with all due respect, that's an exaggeration, & I'm sure you know it.</blockquote>That's like looking at a third world country and saying "They aren't THAT hungry".You'd be lucky to see a master drop in an entire NIGHT of running instances. And that's between an entire group worth of players. Good luck on anyone actually needing it for anything beyond selling.Edit: I wonder if anyone's mentioned to him that there are some T8 masters still being discovered. It's JUNE. </blockquote>Well, he's going by the chance percentage probably, which is something like 10% for a named to have a master. Then looking at CoA that has 8 named so it's almost 80% chance in theory. It certainly feels like more than 10 kills per master, because it is. You can have 30 named with no master, then have 3 drop in the next 10. Or you might do 30 named, no master, then somebody else gets 3 in 10 kills without you ever knowing.</blockquote>Actually I was just going based on my experience playing. Sure, I don't get a master every time, but I can't count the number of times I've run CoA and we've seen 2-4 masters drop. It seems to me that the average is very close to 1 per run.True, I didn't work on the Smart Loot system for spells, so actually reading it on this thread was the first I heard about it. Thats the beauty of working on a large team where everyone is working on their own projects, even we get surprised sometimes! I think the idea of dropping a guaranteed "needed" master 30% of the time is a great idea. Most of the time it will still be pretty random, but the chances of getting a spell you can use is much better than without the Smart Loot system.I really don't see a group of people trying to farm a specific spell by manipulating which masters they scribe. The chance of it dropping that master would still be low. Since you can't unscribe a spell, you'd pretty much be stuck trying to farm one spell unless you wanted to start all over with a new alt. There are easier ways to make a plat in the game. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>How convenient - a developer's instance runs gets an average of one master dropping per run, while the rest of us grind instances daily and are lucky to see an Ornate chest drop of a named.</blockquote>*hands Kyrsten a tinfoil hat*

Faelgalad

06-06-2008, 05:54 PM

Culling Blade of Pancreatic DestructionTwo Handed Axe +8 DPS (okay)+40 Haste (interesting)Damage 129-396The last thing, make it crap, nonsense, worthless, inferior, usable only by people without any brain capabilities. A Nathsar Shortsword has more damage, with +1 sec delay AND I can use my shield. If someone uses two weapons with 4 sec. delay, he goes up to 5 sec. delay for two weapon style. He has 500-700 Damage. Not counting better usage of double attack, melee crit, DPS....Be strong, I know you can do it, make it worth! Make it an Berserker only weapon with 387-1158 Damage on 5 sec. If this is to much, you can nerf it. But we need some weapon to experiment upper level of two handed weapon fighting. A weapon arround 1100 max. damage is close to 2x 320er max, in the light of better Double attack usage. Chieftains Blocker is useless for Crusaders. We need Parry, we need Defense! 1306 Protection is rather low. Give the "Broken Toe Blocker" Stats to "Chieftains Blocker" and vice versa. Would make much, much more sense. Believe an Paladin of three years experience <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Or rename it "Transmuter Snack".

Kyrsten

06-06-2008, 06:00 PM

<cite>Felipe@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kyrsten wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Detor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now you can pretty much be guaranteed a master after a 30 minute instance run.</blockquote>Rothgar, with all due respect, that's an exaggeration, & I'm sure you know it.</blockquote>That's like looking at a third world country and saying "They aren't THAT hungry".You'd be lucky to see a master drop in an entire NIGHT of running instances. And that's between an entire group worth of players. Good luck on anyone actually needing it for anything beyond selling.Edit: I wonder if anyone's mentioned to him that there are some T8 masters still being discovered. It's JUNE. </blockquote>Well, he's going by the chance percentage probably, which is something like 10% for a named to have a master. Then looking at CoA that has 8 named so it's almost 80% chance in theory. It certainly feels like more than 10 kills per master, because it is. You can have 30 named with no master, then have 3 drop in the next 10. Or you might do 30 named, no master, then somebody else gets 3 in 10 kills without you ever knowing.</blockquote>Actually I was just going based on my experience playing. Sure, I don't get a master every time, but I can't count the number of times I've run CoA and we've seen 2-4 masters drop. It seems to me that the average is very close to 1 per run.True, I didn't work on the Smart Loot system for spells, so actually reading it on this thread was the first I heard about it. Thats the beauty of working on a large team where everyone is working on their own projects, even we get surprised sometimes! I think the idea of dropping a guaranteed "needed" master 30% of the time is a great idea. Most of the time it will still be pretty random, but the chances of getting a spell you can use is much better than without the Smart Loot system.I really don't see a group of people trying to farm a specific spell by manipulating which masters they scribe. The chance of it dropping that master would still be low. Since you can't unscribe a spell, you'd pretty much be stuck trying to farm one spell unless you wanted to start all over with a new alt. There are easier ways to make a plat in the game. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>How convenient - a developer's instance runs gets an average of one master dropping per run, while the rest of us grind instances daily and are lucky to see an Ornate chest drop of a named.</blockquote>*hands Kyrsten a tinfoil hat*</blockquote>Look, you can tinfoil hat all you want, but the fact of the matter is that I can run any and all T8 instances with any of my 3 level 80s, and the nameds will drop wood, with an occasional Ornate (often times with a chromatic essence and nothing else) and an even rarer Exquisite. If it was just me, I'd not bother saying anything, but I'm willing to bet that the other L80s in my guild would agree with me, and that most of the people playing would as well.When a dev comes out and says that in his opinion the average rate is 1 master per run, and sometimes its 2 or more per run... well, I'm sorry, but his observations and the observations of myself and many other players don't seem to match up. Either we as players are doing something wrong, or Rothgar is full of [Removed for Content].

DarkZombie

06-06-2008, 06:12 PM

flowercivicsi

06-06-2008, 06:37 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>This actually isnt the first zone to use smartloot on spells. There is a zone on live which uses it now but I will let you guys figure out which one it is <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Hey! be nice and tell us the other zone! CoA, CoK, Chelisth, Vaults and MC have all dropped masters for classes not in the group. I'm assuming that you meant an instanced zone so would you please provide me with a little insight please pretty please Mr. Aeralik? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Kizee

06-06-2008, 06:49 PM

Windowlicker

06-06-2008, 06:49 PM

<cite>Kyrsten wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Look, you can tinfoil hat all you want, but the fact of the matter is that I can run any and all T8 instances with any of my 3 level 80s, and the nameds will drop wood, with an occasional Ornate (often times with a chromatic essence and nothing else) and an even rarer Exquisite. If it was just me, I'd not bother saying anything, but I'm willing to bet that the other L80s in my guild would agree with me, and that most of the people playing would as well.</blockquote>Agreed 100%. You'll be lucky to see a master if you run instances full time for several day stretches in some cases.

Freliant

06-06-2008, 06:52 PM

<cite>Faelgalad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Culling Blade of Pancreatic DestructionTwo Handed Axe +8 DPS (okay)+40 Haste (interesting)Damage 129-396The last thing, make it crap, nonsense, worthless, inferior, usable only by people without any brain capabilities. A Nathsar Shortsword has more damage, with +1 sec delay AND I can use my shield. If someone uses two weapons with 4 sec. delay, he goes up to 5 sec. delay for two weapon style. He has 500-700 Damage. Not counting better usage of double attack, melee crit, DPS....Be strong, I know you can do it, make it worth! Make it an Berserker only weapon with 387-1158 Damage on 5 sec. If this is to much, you can nerf it. But we need some weapon to experiment upper level of two handed weapon fighting. A weapon arround 1100 max. damage is close to 2x 320er max, in the light of better Double attack usage. Chieftains Blocker is useless for Crusaders. We need Parry, we need Defense! 1306 Protection is rather low. Give the "Broken Toe Blocker" Stats to "Chieftains Blocker" and vice versa. Would make much, much more sense. Believe an Paladin of three years experience <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> Or rename it "Transmuter Snack". </blockquote>I spent a good 5 minutes trying to figure out what you meant. So my first suggestion, learn to properly organize your thoughts into sentences, and provide enough background on what you are talking about. Reguarding the new 2 handed axe... you are arguing because they made a 2 hander with low delay and haste? True, most people would prefer a higher delay, but this is just variety in weapons, not making everything higher and higher delay and with a bigger and bigger damage spread. The delay you suggested is as good as the ranger mythical why the heck would you want to do something like that? it is completely out of proportion to what the zone should be rewarding. And then only restricting it to berzerkers? WHY to replace their epic? Sorry but FAIL.As for your blurb on the 2 blockers, just because a specific class (the paladin) does not want to use it, does not mean that it is instantly "transmute fodder". You are not the only paladin on the server, and just because you have 3 years (sarcastic wow) playing your paladin, doesn't make you an expert on it. Defense and Parry is good for ALL tanking classes, not just the Paladin smart guy...

XFnarX

06-06-2008, 06:55 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>This actually isnt the first zone to use smartloot on spells. There is a zone on live which uses it now but I will let you guys figure out which one it is <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>It's CoA.... why, because I farm the other 3 and have yet to see a master that matches someone in the group consistently. Either that or you are outright lying and/or failed at coding it properly. =p I rarely go to CoA because the zone is annoying as all sin. If anyone can disprove this I can disprove the other 3.Then we are down to the most wasteful instance in existence... CoK (^_^)/.... oh wait... (-_-)

lazlo1

06-06-2008, 07:03 PM

I like the idea of smart loot for masters based on whats needed. 30% sounds a little low to me I would think 50% at least. I just hope that SOE did it right.If they took the list of all needed spells across the group and picked one that will be very bad for the the people who work hard to get mastered out. The guy needing 1 spell will have little chance vs the guy who needs every spell.I pray they pick the spell class then pick one of the spells they need. But I fear I ask too much of SOE to actually think about the proper algorithm. I also agree its SOH that uses smart loot, to bad its only high level spells.

Somatic

06-06-2008, 07:03 PM

<cite>XFnarX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>This actually isnt the first zone to use smartloot on spells. There is a zone on live which uses it now but I will let you guys figure out which one it is <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>It's CoA.... why, because I farm the other 3 and have yet to see a master that matches someone in the group consistently.(-_-)</blockquote>That's the zone i was thinking he was talking about, but it would take too much data from multiple sources to prove it. Could of just been luck -- without a good sample of data it's hard to prove. --- Regardless it's only semi-useful due that no 71-75 spells drop in that zone, as stated -- the new zone will be the only one where 71-80 can drop.This is all stuff i've read though, maybe the idea 71-75 can drop in the new zone is false, in which case it 76-80 masters will become even more common compared to 71-75. ( i might be 1 level off on the range here).

Itsumo

06-06-2008, 07:18 PM

Ran this zone with Mystic, Berserker, Assassin, Wizard, Bruiser and Illusionist. Ran it after the changes to it yesterday, and it was challenging. The Mystic and Illusionist got a work out, we found an assassin master (level 72), which I wish was on live. We found a very nice pair of chain gloves, a decent pair of chain pants, and a decent chain breastplate. We also found a nice robe for enchanters, a pretty nice pair of gloves, and some other pretty nice drops. They're not end game gear for raiders, but I'm pretty sure its not supposed to be. The final boss was a bit of a challenge with a legendary geared berserker, and it was definitely fun. There's tons of items on the drop lists for this zone, I doubt we've even seen them all.

XFnarX

06-06-2008, 07:18 PM

<cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>XFnarX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>This actually isnt the first zone to use smartloot on spells. There is a zone on live which uses it now but I will let you guys figure out which one it is <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>It's CoA.... why, because I farm the other 3 and have yet to see a master that matches someone in the group consistently.(-_-)</blockquote>That's the zone i was thinking he was talking about, but it would take too much data from multiple sources to prove it. Could of just been luck -- without a good sample of data it's hard to prove. --- Regardless it's only semi-useful due that no 71-75 spells drop in that zone, as stated -- the new zone will be the only one where 71-80 can drop.This is all stuff i've read though, maybe the idea 71-75 can drop in the new zone is false, in which case it 76-80 masters will become even more common compared to 71-75. ( i might be 1 level off on the range here). </blockquote>Yeah... Would need a lot of data from CoA and CoK... however if it's "smart loot" in all the other zones then if I'm the only one killing named in zone when a master drops it should "only" drop my class... no? *wink*

Windowlicker

06-06-2008, 07:20 PM

<cite>XFnarX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Then we are down to the most wasteful instance in existence... CoK (^_^)/.... oh wait... (-_-)</blockquote>CoK? Oh yeah, that zone that absolutely no-one every bothers with anymore. That was an amazing example of "What exactly were you thinking sony?"At first it was ok because you would have 6 shots at the absolutely missing masters. It wasn't uncommon to run the zone two or three times in a row without seeing metal. (2 or 3 times in a row x 6 chances with nothing).It was amazing to see it nerfed. Now the zone is completely useless!At this point, you might as well remove CoK from the game. I bet you it isn't missed in the least.

TwistedFaith

06-06-2008, 07:29 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Alaocia@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>This actually isnt the first zone to use smartloot on spells. There is a zone on live which uses it now but I will let you guys figure out which one it is <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Hey! be nice and tell us the other zone! CoA, CoK, Chelisth, Vaults and MC have all dropped masters for classes not in the group. I'm assuming that you meant an instanced zone so would you please provide me with a little insight please pretty please Mr. Aeralik? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>SoH</blockquote>Yep SOH drops lvl 80 masters depending on who's in the raid.

XFnarX

06-06-2008, 07:42 PM

<cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>At this point, you might as well remove CoK from the game. I bet you it isn't missed in the least.</blockquote>Agreed. lol

Calain80

06-06-2008, 07:48 PM

It's needed for some epic quests. But beside that: Yes CoK is dead.

Anekuh

06-06-2008, 07:52 PM

<cite>Calberak@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's needed for some epic quests. But beside that: Yes CoK is dead.</blockquote>No kidding. CoK is now THE worst instanced alive. Another great move Devs./golf clap

Rayche

06-06-2008, 07:53 PM

Itemizing it so that CHAIN HEALER gear drops is the #1 biggest improvement in a zone since RoK came out!Thanks so much Fyre! (I take back all those horrible things I've been thinking about you for the last 6 months.)Very nice work all around it seems. And if you have a zone with an AWESOME Smartloot system that drops masters.. thank you for making armor sets that will make farming the bejeesus out of this zone faster and more fun!I'll keep a full Goblinbane set on 3 toons just for running this instance.

denmom

06-06-2008, 09:31 PM

I have to agree about the 1 master per run that was cited as average...uh, what?I've run VoES many many times, CoA as many, CoK pre-nerf/"fix", Maiden's, Chelsith...out of all of those and this is since RoK launched, I've seen 5 masters drop...five.Named will drop treasured with one or two adepts with a treasured item. If an ornate drops it's 90-95% just only the essence, the other 1% rarely with other items in it like a legendary with an adept 1.It's really really depressing and frustrating to run VoES several nights in a row and only get essences, some legendary, but mostly adept 1s and treasured.Here's to the smart loot working.

Detor

06-06-2008, 10:32 PM

<cite>Alaocia@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>This actually isnt the first zone to use smartloot on spells. There is a zone on live which uses it now but I will let you guys figure out which one it is <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Hey! be nice and tell us the other zone! CoA, CoK, Chelisth, Vaults and MC have all dropped masters for classes not in the group. I'm assuming that you meant an instanced zone so would you please provide me with a little insight please pretty please Mr. Aeralik? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>He didn't say it was a RoK zone, or what tier. I'm guessing either SoH or Stormhold off Antonica.<cite>Alrunes wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please do not assume; Collect data, be sure of what you are saying. Using phrases like "It seems..." will do nothing but lead you to trouble. What you are "seeming" to see for a drop rate is not what many other aying customers are observing. I can tell you that many of my friends are leaving the game because they are bored with still running the same instances trying to obtain Masters that just are not droppingin instance or in raid. You are a developer, check the data, confirm the actual drop rates, check the projected drop rates...</blockquote>Actually, take a look at <a href="http://www.lootdb.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.lootdb.com</a> . You can pick a named, and it'll tell you the percentage of whatever off each mob. It's entirely player driven, and I'm sure you'll see things that go completely against your luck (In over 20 runs I've never seen a master spell nor fabled item off praetor of the phylactery, yet based on what other players have had happen it seems to be nearly a 50/50 chance. That just means every bit as unlucky as I am somebody else is many times more lucky than they should be if everybody got the average. The average for instance named seems to be about 10%, so take CoA, it's mathematically a 80% chance you'll get a master each run if you do all the named. Sure your group might not get one, a 2nd group might not have got a single one either, a 3rd group might not have got one either, but then that 4th group could have got 3 and boom there's your ~10% average (8 named * 4 groups = 32 spawns, 3 masters would be almost 10%). It sucks for the first three for sure, but that 4th group is very happy.Reminds me of a streak where over 40 named kills (I was the one keeping track so this is from my perspective over multiple groups) in a row had no masters. Then get this - a random mob dropped a master, a 2nd random mob dropped a master, then named kill dropped a master for a very lucky group. I couldn't believe it - the odds of it considering how rare random mob drops are. Loot in EQ2 is very streaky though if you haven't noticed. You just have to keep trying until your no luck turns into "OMG I can't believe that happened."

Detor

06-06-2008, 10:50 PM

<cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>XFnarX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Then we are down to the most wasteful instance in existence... CoK (^_^)/.... oh wait... (-_-)</blockquote>CoK? Oh yeah, that zone that absolutely no-one every bothers with anymore. That was an amazing example of "What exactly were you thinking sony?"At first it was ok because you would have 6 shots at the absolutely missing masters. It wasn't uncommon to run the zone two or three times in a row without seeing metal. (2 or 3 times in a row x 6 chances with nothing).It was amazing to see it nerfed. Now the zone is completely useless!At this point, you might as well remove CoK from the game. I bet you it isn't missed in the least.</blockquote>What I think would have restored their original intended loot drop rate AND still get people to do the zone is to leave the 6 spawns in, then change lockout to 18 hours. They were thinking "It's only 3 hour lockout, 1/6th the lockout, so we'll give them 1/6th the named" but they forgot you have to run people all the way to Chardok, get them into the instance, fight to collect all those bones, then do it again 3 hours later, then again 3 hours later, then 3 hours later, etc etc for 6 times which equals out to WAY more time than any other 18 hour instance where you're in it just once then locked out 18 hours. I'll agree that in its current state it's solely a run once to experience the content, maybe try to get shackle of the court, then never go back unfortunately.

Alrunes

06-06-2008, 11:24 PM

Actually, take a look at <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.lootdb.com/" target="_blank">http://www.lootdb.com/</a> . You can pick a named, and it'll tell you the percentage of whatever off each mob. It's entirely player driven, and I'm sure you'll see things that go completely against your luck (In over 20 runs I've never seen a master spell nor fabled item off praetor of the phylactery, yet based on what other players have had happen it seems to be nearly a 50/50 chance. That just means every bit as unlucky as I am somebody else is many times more lucky than they should be if everybody got the average. The average for instance named seems to be about 10%, so take CoA, it's mathematically a 80% chance you'll get a master each run if you do all the named. Sure your group might not get one, a 2nd group might not have got a single one either, a 3rd group might not have got one either, but then that 4th group could have got 3 and boom there's your ~10% average (8 named * 4 groups = 32 spawns, 3 masters would be almost 10%). It sucks for the first three for sure, but that 4th group is very happy.Sorry but lootdb.com is a nice referrence, but I would not consider it an accurate measurement for drop rates. I see no data to support that a large enough sample of the player base is reporting every single instance run they make to determine reasonably accurate account of the drop rate. The developers on the other hand, do have access to the actual drop rates for every run on every server and can determine if the actual rate is what they intended it to be. This would not be the first time that an unintentional error in the actual drop rate versus the projected drop rate has occured.

Pitt Hammerfi

06-07-2008, 12:38 AM

Am i the only one who thinks master drops are way too common?Kind of takes the fun out of everything when your fully mastered 3 months into the expansion.Thats part of the reason i want a new level of collectables.

brammator

06-07-2008, 02:36 AM

<cite>Detor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then looking at CoA that has 8 named so it's almost 80% chance in theory. </blockquote> It's like 56% probability to get at least 1 master. And, uhm, I still have seen 1 (one) message about M1 drops there. Isn't worth mentioning or, like, 1% M1 drop rate?

EQ2Luv

06-07-2008, 02:39 AM

<cite>Zoltaroth wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shemyaza wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>True, I didn't work on the Smart Loot system for spells, so actually reading it on this thread was the first I heard about it. Thats the beauty of working on a large team where everyone is working on their own projects, even we get surprised sometimes! </blockquote>non-communication between devs is one of the major flaws in eq2. thanks for bringing it into the open.</blockquote>To be fair, there is a difference between non-communication and not-every-dev-knows-the-exact-details-of-systems-they-didn't-implement. This thread actually prompted me to go re-read the smart loot code, and it's advanced quite a bit since it's initial inception, which is cool, but there aren't enough hours in the day for all of us to keep up on every change that goes into every system; nor does my brain have the ability to store that much data <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15">. You could probably kill an entire workday doing nothing but reading other people's updates if you tried to keep up with everything on such a micro level.</blockquote>While the code is still fresh in Kander's head (or another developer who knows the smartloot innerworkings), could you answer something I've wondered for a while -- does smart loot factor in the number of people that need an item or the number of people of one class? For example, if we kill the last name in PR with 23 templars and one guardian, (and a helm drops), will it be a 1 in 24 chance of warrior helm and 23 in 24 of cleric helm, or just 50/50 between the two helms? What if 22 of the 23 templars already have their helm? Just something i've wondered. A similar question could be posted for masters if there are two players of the same class. Will the ones they both need be more likely than the ones that only one of them needs? Otherwise it would perhaps favor those with fewer masters. (Of course non-smart loot favors those with fewer masters too, but it might be nice if those who are searching for those last few masters they need were given an equal shot at reward as those just beginning to collect masters.) ^.^

Hellswrath

06-07-2008, 03:58 AM

<cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kyrsten wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Look, you can tinfoil hat all you want, but the fact of the matter is that I can run any and all T8 instances with any of my 3 level 80s, and the nameds will drop wood, with an occasional Ornate (often times with a chromatic essence and nothing else) and an even rarer Exquisite. If it was just me, I'd not bother saying anything, but I'm willing to bet that the other L80s in my guild would agree with me, and that most of the people playing would as well.</blockquote>Agreed 100%. You'll be lucky to see a master if you run instances full time for several day stretches in some cases.</blockquote>I'd like to third this, if for no other reason than the first comment by Rothgar about drop rates was so out of touch. My guild has seen the same issues even when we were running instances all the time. Now we are bored from the lack of reward for our repeated efforts after we got all needed gear, so we don't run them often.I am forced to agree that you need to look at the server parse data before making a statement about master drops being that common when most of the community is saying otherwise. Something doesn't add up.

Terrius

06-07-2008, 06:14 AM

Zone curently with smart loot is Definatly SoH, *mutters about monk masters always dropping and no assassin* see now I honestly have to agree, from my personal experience (15 instance runs in total) atleast 10 had 1 master drop and 5 had 2+ drop. /shrug, maybe it's my luck but my illy say a master in CoA and In maidens in the same group... and they were both coercer >.<! Really looking forward to Runnyeye 2, looks awesome! *waits impatiently for it to hit live*

therodge

06-07-2008, 11:13 AM

TBH im not surprized at aeriliks estimation if anything is only slightly to high more like .8 average i have gone through coa and got 6 master chests ones day (yes six) and have gone in and get 1 but genrally we always get atleast one exqusite, of how many of those are acual masters? no idea, but 1 exquisite chest is about right for coa then again talking to a player who got mantel of the jarsath tribe his very first run through maidens, and after roughly only 50 runs of each zone here is what i have seen, 14 CaratidCutters4 Armguards of the farseer2 mantel of the jarsath tribe0 bracers of the yeilei shock troops (GRRRRRR)3 of the melee ring is Vaults

Tsunai

06-07-2008, 01:52 PM

I know some of you may be frustrated at what you perceive to be broken with the current state of loot and/or its mechanics but let's please keep this thread on track and on topic. Taking shots at or targetting the Devs who are actively trying to communicate within this thread is counterproductive to any constructive input that may be expressed. I'm sure we all want the Devs to keep up this open communication they have undertaken so lets try to keep things civil and target the topic, not the people, so the issue can be discussed between player and Dev further.

LygerT

06-07-2008, 02:53 PM

<cite>Pitt Hammerfist wrote:</cite><blockquote>Am i the only one who thinks master drops are way too common?Kind of takes the fun out of everything when your fully mastered 3 months into the expansion.Thats part of the reason i want a new level of collectables.</blockquote>you play one of the least played classes in the game, try mastering out a wizard and see if you feel the same way.

Sandain666

06-07-2008, 04:25 PM

Rothgar

06-07-2008, 06:26 PM

<cite>Sandain666 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Rothgar Does SOE have some way of gathering actual Master drop data. While I am sure your individual experience is valued, using your individual experience should not trump hard data</blockquote>Yes, the logs tell us everything. As I've said many times, I'm a programmer, I don't do anything with class balance or itemization, so my personal experiences are nothing more than anecdotal as far as this conversation is concerned. I was simply stating that from my experiences, masters drop often enough that making every master drop a guaranteed "needed" master would be overkill in my opinion.I like the idea of a percentage chance that the dropped master will be guaranteed needed by someone in the party, as long as that percentage isn't too high. Again, these are just my opinions and many times my opinions don't have anything to do with reality. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

XFnarX

06-07-2008, 07:27 PM

Honestly I think they need another level 71 ~ 76 master dropping zone. When I look at the broker I see 1 ~ 3 71 ~ 76 Masters while the other 3 pages are 76+... this originally seemed to me to be a little unbalanced so I started looking at other classes to see if the server just hated Coercers... apparently EVERY class has the same issue. 71 ~ 76 level spells are FAR rarer than 76+. Level 76 is in that grey area, but 71 ~ 75 are rarely on the broker on my server.So stick on topic, will the new RE be a level 71 ~ 76 master dropping zone? (Here's to hoping!)(Oh, and on side topic, I don't think it's SoH. My guild has had Masters for classes not present drop numerous times, we have gotten a few Monk Masters and we don't currently have a monk in the guild, even in the alt guild. =p)

Valanthe

06-07-2008, 08:23 PM

Been said multiple times, 71-79 zone.Though... not sure that it'll mean that the masters actually hit the broker.

liveja

06-07-2008, 09:52 PM

<cite>XFnarX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>This actually isnt the first zone to use smartloot on spells. There is a zone on live which uses it now but I will let you guys figure out which one it is <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></blockquote>It's CoA.... why, because I farm the other 3 and have yet to see a master that matches someone in the group consistently. Either that or you are outright lying and/or failed at coding it properly. =p I rarely go to CoA because the zone is annoying as all sin. If anyone can disprove this I can disprove the other 3.Then we are down to the most wasteful instance in existence... CoK (^_^)/.... oh wait... (-_-)</blockquote>Both of the Masters that I have seen drop in COA were for classes that weren't represented in the group, so I'd say that's not a smart loot instance.

Ronny

06-07-2008, 10:15 PM

I just came from SoH, and we got 2 Dirge masters from trash for our Dirge. He had neither and could scribe both.

Jida

06-08-2008, 12:21 AM

<cite>Ronny wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just came from SoH, and we got 2 Dirge masters from trash for our Dirge. He had neither and could scribe both.</blockquote>I would put money that they were both level 80.

Novusod

06-08-2008, 03:14 AM

I remember hearing a while ago that Spell/Combat Art system was designed to have Master III as the top echelon. Since everyone feels entitled to full Master I spells these days maybe it is time to break out the Master III that players are not yet accustomed to having. Make Master III as rare as the old Master I used to be back at release or even rarer than that. This would allow more freedom with drop rates and smart loot on the Master I.

Pitt Hammerfi

06-08-2008, 03:53 AM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember hearing a while ago that Spell/Combat Art system was designed to have Master III as the top echelon. Since everyone feels entitled to full Master I spells these days maybe it is time to break out the Master III that players are not yet accustomed to having. Make Master III as rare as the old Master I used to be back at release or even rarer than that. This would allow more freedom with drop rates and smart loot on the Master I. </blockquote>I agree, something new to work on.

Ronny

06-08-2008, 04:06 AM

<cite>Devastatin@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ronny wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just came from SoH, and we got 2 Dirge masters from trash for our Dirge. He had neither and could scribe both.</blockquote>I would put money that they were both level 80.</blockquote>Yes, they were both lvl 80.

LygerT

06-08-2008, 01:07 PM

<cite>Ronny wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Devastatin@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ronny wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just came from SoH, and we got 2 Dirge masters from trash for our Dirge. He had neither and could scribe both.</blockquote>I would put money that they were both level 80.</blockquote>Yes, they were both lvl 80.</blockquote>not a surprise, since i have yet to see anything but a level 80 master drop in any T8 raid zone.

06-08-2008, 05:24 PM

<cite>Pitt Hammerfist wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember hearing a while ago that Spell/Combat Art system was designed to have Master III as the top echelon. Since everyone feels entitled to full Master I spells these days maybe it is time to break out the Master III that players are not yet accustomed to having. Make Master III as rare as the old Master I used to be back at release or even rarer than that. This would allow more freedom with drop rates and smart loot on the Master I. </blockquote>I agree, something new to work on.</blockquote>Actually this all comes back to tuneing. IF the encounters are tuned to be based on AD3's then IF you had a master it would give you a very strong advange against that encounter. The thing is SOE has changed the tuneing so that it is based on everyone having Masters. There is the crux, if they had just said NOPE masters need to be increadibly rare and then tune everything around ad3's they wouldn't need to introduce yet another tier of spells. You will still have these whine threads about how hard it is or it isn't to get masters but it would be back a tier instead of growing yet another tier.Side note, if folks want something "new" to work on why aren't there more masters on the broker? it sounds like you're saying your completly mastered out or as mastered out as you care to be, and that you are bored. It just stikes me as odd if this is a "common" situation among folks that there aren't more masters out there. Yes I understand guilds will hold on to a few of them, but if this is soo "common" then the guild banks should be filled with this "common" stuff and they would want to clear up room for the actual "rare" stuff.

Novusod

06-08-2008, 06:21 PM

I think there are already lots of players Master'ed out there and bored in terms of progression. If people get bored then they leave it is that simple. Master I spells have been trivialized beyond the point that they are rather meaningless. I would love to go back to the old days when getting a Master really meant something and other people would talk about it. More masters dropping did not equal more fun in end because it didn't mean anything to get the Masters anymore. The thing is we can't go back you can't put that genie back in the bottle we can only go forward from here and learn from past mistakes. Time to up the tier to Master III and keep them as rare as dickens. Give us something everyone can work towards for a good long time.

Obscurum

06-08-2008, 09:11 PM

Cant wait to try out the new zone, spot on idea with the smart loot on masters! (applause)

Kizee

06-08-2008, 10:20 PM

<cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pitt Hammerfist wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember hearing a while ago that Spell/Combat Art system was designed to have Master III as the top echelon. Since everyone feels entitled to full Master I spells these days maybe it is time to break out the Master III that players are not yet accustomed to having. Make Master III as rare as the old Master I used to be back at release or even rarer than that. This would allow more freedom with drop rates and smart loot on the Master I. </blockquote>I agree, something new to work on.</blockquote>Actually this all comes back to tuneing. IF the encounters are tuned to be based on AD3's then IF you had a master it would give you a very strong advange against that encounter. The thing is SOE has changed the tuneing so that it is based on everyone having Masters. There is the crux, if they had just said NOPE masters need to be increadibly rare and then tune everything around ad3's they wouldn't need to introduce yet another tier of spells. You will still have these whine threads about how hard it is or it isn't to get masters but it would be back a tier instead of growing yet another tier.Side note, if folks want something "new" to work on why aren't there more masters on the broker? it sounds like you're saying your completly mastered out or as mastered out as you care to be, and that you are bored. It just stikes me as odd if this is a "common" situation among folks that there aren't more masters out there. Yes I understand guilds will hold on to a few of them, but if this is soo "common" then the guild banks should be filled with this "common" stuff and they would want to clear up room for the actual "rare" stuff.</blockquote>Thats not true at all. The solo/group encounters have ALWAYS been balanced for adept 1's (yes I said adept one). Adept 3's were suppose to be the high end that the soloers/groupers strive for. Masters were suppose to be what raiders strive for.Soloers/groupers do NOT need masters and you can probally say that raiders don't need them either but it gives the raiders an edge that they would need fighting the harder content.

Noaani

06-09-2008, 03:26 AM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thats not true at all. The solo/group encounters have ALWAYS been balanced for adept 1's (yes I said adept one). Adept 3's were suppose to be the high end that the soloers/groupers strive for. Masters were suppose to be what raiders strive for.Soloers/groupers do NOT need masters and you can probally say that raiders don't need them either but it gives the raiders an edge that they would need fighting the harder content.</blockquote>The idea of this started to decline in DoF, and was basically thrown out the window in KoS.Adept 3s are now the standard for solo and heroic encounters, and is what they are tuned for.

denmom

06-09-2008, 05:22 AM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thats not true at all. The solo/group encounters have ALWAYS been balanced for adept 1's (yes I said adept one). Adept 3's were suppose to be the high end that the soloers/groupers strive for. Masters were suppose to be what raiders strive for.Soloers/groupers do NOT need masters and you can probally say that raiders don't need them either but it gives the raiders an edge that they would need fighting the harder content.</blockquote>The idea of this started to decline in DoF, and was basically thrown out the window in KoS.Adept 3s are now the standard for solo and heroic encounters, and is what they are tuned for.</blockquote>I beta'd RoK...adept 1's and treasured gear from the buffer at first. Not until later could you get the fabled and masters. I brought over my Sage, Alchemist, and Tailor to outfit our mains we copied over, and we mixed mc'g gear with legendary quested and bought from Teren's Grasp. I don't have an Armourer but my spouse's Paladin used the legendary armour from TG and whatever else we found. I remember how almost too easy it was to take down the mobs with ad 3's.The mobs were tuned up harder around mid-beta. Many pointed out how too much harder they were, myself included. Mobs were adjusted down, but not to where they're equal with Loping Plains or Bonemire, they're a bit harder than that in damage and hp.If I recollect correctly, the mobs were left tuned a bit higher for a challenge for those in class and raiding gear along with masters at RoK's launch.

Noaani

06-09-2008, 06:28 AM

<cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I beta'd RoK...adept 1's and treasured gear from the buffer at first. Not until later could you get the fabled and masters. I brought over my Sage, Alchemist, and Tailor to outfit our mains we copied over, and we mixed mc'g gear with legendary quested and bought from Teren's Grasp. I don't have an Armourer but my spouse's Paladin used the legendary armour from TG and whatever else we found. I remember how almost too easy it was to take down the mobs with ad 3's.The mobs were tuned up harder around mid-beta. Many pointed out how too much harder they were, myself included. Mobs were adjusted down, but not to where they're equal with Loping Plains or Bonemire, they're a bit harder than that in damage and hp.If I recollect correctly, the mobs were left tuned a bit higher for a challenge for those in class and raiding gear along with masters at RoK's launch.</blockquote>I was in RoK beta as well, from about the same time you started. The changes made to mobs during that time have no reflection as to what spell quality they are tuned too, but was simply about overall challange of the mobs.From memory, the change from having non raid mobs tuned to adept 3s happened in KoS, when rares first started dropping like candy. This is the first time that it became the norm for non raid players to be fully adept 3d, and with full rare crafted gear 9was still legendary back then).I believe it was even stated as such by a red name mid DoF that heroic content such as Poets Palace and Cazel'z Meza were tuned at players with full adept 3s.

Rageincarnate

06-09-2008, 01:39 PM

2-4 masters in a coa run? Thats pretty hard to believe. Many days i'll have every instance locked out with both of my toons without seeing an exquisite. I really,really do not feel i'm exaggeratting at all nor am i complaining. You have the logs, you can see that in i'm guessing 200-300 instance runs about 15-20 masters have dropped and about 4-8 that i have won. I really wish i had saved my logs that i could give solid numbers. Anyways, most of my "raid guild" is still searching for masters and the next expansion is coming out in the near future. Considering throwing in the towel(master wise), till next expansion honestly. For my own sanity, i would love to have a dev look up my logs and tell me if i'm just extremely unlucky or bleh. Just want to reiterate i am not complaining. Just somethings not right... toon names are thedeuce and bardarnit on unrest.

denmom

06-09-2008, 09:05 PM

<cite>bluedego wrote:</cite><blockquote>2-4 masters in a coa run? Thats pretty hard to believe. Many days i'll have every instance locked out with both of my toons without seeing an exquisite. I really,really do not feel i'm exaggeratting at all nor am i complaining. You have the logs, you can see that in i'm guessing 200-300 instance runs about 15-20 masters have dropped and about 4-8 that i have won. I really wish i had saved my logs that i could give solid numbers. Anyways, most of my "raid guild" is still searching for masters and the next expansion is coming out in the near future. Considering throwing in the towel(master wise), till next expansion honestly. For my own sanity, i would love to have a dev look up my logs and tell me if i'm just extremely unlucky or bleh. Just want to reiterate i am not complaining. Just somethings not right... toon names are thedeuce and bardarnit on unrest. </blockquote>It's not just you. Others are reporting the same thing about exquisite chests, some in threads on this very subject.I've done the same as you...run VoES, CoA, Maidens several times in a week, maybe one master, if that. I remember running CoK before the fix for a week and having only one master drop with the rest being 99% treasured with three ornates, one of which was only an essence. Each time we run VoES it's treasured chests with an ornate or two, 99% of which are just an essence.And I'm seeing similar in below T8 content as I'm leveling my toons and running HQs with guild and friends. Named that would usually give an exquisite or ornate are dropping treasured or small chests.

liveja

06-10-2008, 09:21 AM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Master I spells have been trivialized beyond the point that they are rather meaningless</blockquote>At level 80, not only do I not have one single solitary T8 Master ... I've never even seen a Swashy master drop, of ANY tier. EVER. Not even one.If you call that "trivialized", I'd like to know what you call "rare."

Beldin_

06-10-2008, 10:05 AM

<cite><cite>Pitt Hammerfist wrote:</cite></cite><cite><blockquote>Am i the only one who thinks master drops are way too common?Kind of takes the fun out of everything when your fully mastered 3 months into the expansion.</blockquote></cite><cite></cite><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Master I spells have been trivialized beyond the point that they are rather meaningless</blockquote>At level 80, not only do I not have one single solitary T8 Master ... I've never even seen a Swashy master drop, of ANY tier. EVER. Not even one.If you call that "trivialized", I'd like to know what you call "rare."</blockquote>Oh yeah, and the only swashy masters you see in the broker is our TAUNT and MEZZ for 80p or whatever .. lolAfter maybe 50 runs through CoA, Maidens and VoES i have exactly ONE master on all my characters, the Swashy STR-Buff, thats it.I would say the droprate of ornates was maybe semething like 1 chest in 3 runs for me <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Noaani

06-10-2008, 11:00 AM

<cite>bluedego wrote:</cite><blockquote>2-4 masters in a coa run? Thats pretty hard to believe. Many days i'll have every instance locked out with both of my toons without seeing an exquisite. I really,really do not feel i'm exaggeratting at all nor am i complaining. You have the logs, you can see that in i'm guessing 200-300 instance runs about 15-20 masters have dropped and about 4-8 that i have won. I really wish i had saved my logs that i could give solid numbers. Anyways, most of my "raid guild" is still searching for masters and the next expansion is coming out in the near future. Considering throwing in the towel(master wise), till next expansion honestly. For my own sanity, i would love to have a dev look up my logs and tell me if i'm just extremely unlucky or bleh. Just want to reiterate i am not complaining. Just somethings not right... toon names are thedeuce and bardarnit on unrest. </blockquote>I did 3 CoA runs yesterday.The first I did on a tank of mine, we have a grand total of 1 legendary chest, nothing else of value dropped that whole run. Then I did it again on a healer of mine, had all 8 names drop legendary chests. Then I did it again on my wizard, we had 2 master spells and the fabled fist weapon drop before we got to the last name.So, in those three runs, I had an average of 1 metal chest per run, even though the rest of the first 2 groups I went with saw none.

woolco

06-10-2008, 03:34 PM

just a note, the goblin bane gear is more then likely going to be having a use in the Veksar zone, it was home to goblins in everquest1, and from what i read, dont remember where, there is a veksar group zone and a veksar raid zone being added.

Kander

06-11-2008, 04:59 AM

Veksar will be an 80+ single group zone ONLY! There is no raid version! Someone posted that incorrectly. heh

bryldan

06-11-2008, 10:20 AM

<cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>Veksar will be an 80+ single group zone ONLY! There is no raid version! Someone posted that incorrectly. heh</blockquote>Then any word yet on any new raid zones before the next expansion?? Like kurns tower perhaps?

Freliant

06-11-2008, 11:14 AM

<cite>bryldan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>Veksar will be an 80+ single group zone ONLY! There is no raid version! Someone posted that incorrectly. heh</blockquote>Then any word yet on any new raid zones before the next expansion?? Like kurns tower perhaps?</blockquote>Personally, I like the fact that more zones are being made for the bulk of the playerbase instead of just the raiders, as what happened in the prior updates. Keep those group zones coming! ^_^

Kizee

06-11-2008, 11:37 AM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>bryldan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote>Veksar will be an 80+ single group zone ONLY! There is no raid version! Someone posted that incorrectly. heh</blockquote>Then any word yet on any new raid zones before the next expansion?? Like kurns tower perhaps?</blockquote>Personally, I like the fact that more zones are being made for the bulk of the playerbase instead of just the raiders, as what happened in the prior updates. Keep those group zones coming! ^_^</blockquote>They could add 20 new heroic zones but if the loot looks like what is coming out of this zone then who will run them?Not to get into the raider/non raider debate again but most of the game is already made for the non raider.

Freliant

06-11-2008, 12:16 PM

I should not touch the raider vs other debate, but I just want to add one thing: This game has lost some of its grouping focus with RoK because there weren't enough group zones that were doable by the playerbase, and that provided xp or loot as quickly as soloing did. Then when you get to 80, you have 2 zones that people regularly go to (CoA and vaults), 2 zones that only people with enough time or skill bother with (Chelsith & Maidens) and one really short zone that requires alot of work to gain access to, and which 90% of the time will reward you with wood for all your troubles (Court of Kocurus). Raiders on the other hand, have several raid zones to pound away at... 12 from my last count.So yeah, I do raise my hand on more new group zones. The game highly needs them. And as for your "no good loot" comment, don't hold your breath waiting for things that rival raid drops, or that trivialize the loot from all the other dungeons already in T8. IMO, they are heading in a good direction with this new Runnyeye by giving rewards that make the zone itself easier, and doesn't compromise or trivilize other stuff already in the game. Also, if you did not notice, this new zone, and hopefully future ones as well, has a smart loot code that affect master spells that drop. IOW, 30% of the time, when you see a master chest drop, it will be one that a group member will use. GUARANTEED. This alone will make this zone, and any other zone with it worth running many many times over. Also, all named are guaranteed to drop minimum legendary loot. Which means, that running this zone will also be very helpfull for getting some good transmute materials.

Rayche

06-11-2008, 01:14 PM

Just wanted to touch on the "Which new zone uses the Smart loot system" debate.It's almost certainly Shard of Hate. It's the only zone that was in development during roughly the same time period that Runnyeye was.That and just because you got an un-needed master in SoHate... that just means you didn't hit the 30% chance that the smart loot system would trigger. (Remember it's not 100% guaranteed, just increased.)When is Veksar slated for release? Summer? Winter?

feldon30

06-11-2008, 01:28 PM

<cite>Pitt Hammerfist wrote:</cite><blockquote>Am i the only one who thinks master drops are way too common?Kind of takes the fun out of everything when your fully mastered 3 months into the expansion.Thats part of the reason i want a new level of collectables.</blockquote>Yes, they're so common. Wait, they're 25 plat on the broker if you can even find them, some haven't been WW discoed yet, and the 70-79 is flooded with people willing to buy masters for insane plat. Common, yeah right.

Kizee

06-11-2008, 01:34 PM

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pitt Hammerfist wrote:</cite><blockquote>Am i the only one who thinks master drops are way too common?Kind of takes the fun out of everything when your fully mastered 3 months into the expansion.Thats part of the reason i want a new level of collectables.</blockquote>Yes, they're so common. Wait, they're 25 plat on the broker if you can even find them, some haven't been WW discoed yet, and the 70-79 is flooded with people willing to buy masters for insane plat. Common, yeah right.</blockquote>25 plat? I would buy them at that price so fast. 2 of my good spells are 165p each on the broker and all the garbage spells dont go below 40p.

Beldin_

06-11-2008, 02:48 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote> IOW, 30% of the time, when you see a master chest drop, it will be one that a group member will use. GUARANTEED. This alone will make this zone, and any other zone with it worth running many many times over. Also, all named are guaranteed to drop minimum legendary loot. Which means, that running this zone will also be very helpfull for getting some good transmute materials.</blockquote>Do you also realize that, in a normal group with 6 different classes, there is a 25% chance that someone can use a master ? So the 30% are just a little better chance. And it has already been said i think, that this only means that a master for the class drops, and not a master that the person also not already has.

Freliant

06-11-2008, 03:34 PM

<cite>Kendara@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote> IOW, 30% of the time, when you see a master chest drop, it will be one that a group member will use. GUARANTEED. This alone will make this zone, and any other zone with it worth running many many times over. Also, all named are guaranteed to drop minimum legendary loot. Which means, that running this zone will also be very helpfull for getting some good transmute materials.</blockquote>Do you also realize that, in a normal group with 6 different classes, there is a 25% chance that someone can use a master ? So the 30% are just a little better chance. And it has already been said i think, that this only means that a master for the class drops, and not a master that the person also not already has.</blockquote>Dev posted that as was coded, the system DOES check current spell quality before it decides which smart-loot master to put up. So when a spell drops, IF the smartloot feature is used (30%), it will be guaranteed usable by one of the members of the group.

Tomanak

06-11-2008, 03:42 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pitt Hammerfist wrote:</cite><blockquote>Am i the only one who thinks master drops are way too common?Kind of takes the fun out of everything when your fully mastered 3 months into the expansion.Thats part of the reason i want a new level of collectables.</blockquote>Yes, they're so common. Wait, they're 25 plat on the broker if you can even find them, some haven't been WW discoed yet, and the 70-79 is flooded with people willing to buy masters for insane plat. Common, yeah right.</blockquote>25 plat? I would buy them at that price so fast. 2 of my good spells are 165p each on the broker and all the garbage spells dont go below 40p.</blockquote>Have to agree. I have one Brig master and the rest of mine are at least 40 plat on the broker, I have seen them as high as 100+ plat for even crappy CAs

therodge

06-11-2008, 03:58 PM

<cite>Kendara@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote> IOW, 30% of the time, when you see a master chest drop, it will be one that a group member will use. GUARANTEED. This alone will make this zone, and any other zone with it worth running many many times over. Also, all named are guaranteed to drop minimum legendary loot. Which means, that running this zone will also be very helpfull for getting some good transmute materials.</blockquote>Do you also realize that, in a normal group with 6 different classes, there is a 25% chance that someone can use a master ? So the 30% are just a little better chance. And it has already been said i think, that this only means that a master for the class drops, and not a master that the person also not already has.</blockquote>acually your idea is slighty off smart loot works like this100% chance a master will drop to a class in the group30% chance smartloot will check your book and see if you already have it. or atleast thats how i am reading it.

Maergoth

06-11-2008, 08:30 PM

IDK if it's been said or not.. but this zone will still be done regularly even if the loot sucks. Honestly, raid loot shouldn't always be better than heroic loot.Shard of Fear boss with 1 group was harder than Lord Vyemm with 4 groups.. heroic content CAN BE MORE DIFFICULT and should yield more reward than easy raids. As long as the epicx2 B.A. Bosses in this zone drop things on par with their DIFFICULTY, I don't mind.Either way.. The zone will be run for AA. There's a good bit of named in here from what I'm hearing, and everyone will want a piece of it, either this expansion or next time they raise AA cap. It's also high enough level to survive a 10 level raise on the level cap as well.. on top of being an easy way for people to gear up through T8 if they don't feel like doing every solo quest out there on the way to level 90

Kizee

06-11-2008, 08:40 PM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>IDK if it's been said or not.. but this zone will still be done regularly even if the loot sucks. Honestly, raid loot shouldn't always be better than heroic loot.Shard of Fear boss with 1 group was harder than Lord Vyemm with 4 groups.. heroic content CAN BE MORE DIFFICULT and should yield more reward than easy raids. As long as the epicx2 B.A. Bosses in this zone drop things on par with their DIFFICULTY, I don't mind.Either way.. The zone will be run for AA. There's a good bit of named in here from what I'm hearing, and everyone will want a piece of it, either this expansion or next time they raise AA cap. It's also high enough level to survive a 10 level raise on the level cap as well.. on top of being an easy way for people to gear up through T8 if they don't feel like doing every solo quest out there on the way to level 90</blockquote>LOL. Uhhhh no hehe.The zone will be run for AA once then never be used again except to farm masters or mute fodder.If RoK was any indication of how things will be in future then GL on grinding exp on mobs. Solo questing FTL.

XFnarX

06-11-2008, 08:53 PM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>Shard of Fear boss with 1 group was harder than Lord Vyemm with 4 groups..</blockquote>Huh? I do the SoF boss with Coercer / Defiler / Necro, does this mean I should be solo-ing Vyemm (o.O)?... But I do get your point. Honestly I'd like to see another zone like Nizara and another AP like FD. Raid quality loot (for it's time) in a challenging instance zone. Who ever created that AP was right on the money... minus the horrible plot and cheesy oriental theme, that has been the best exp/ap I've seen yet.Still looking forward to the new RE, I just hope they didn't sink the fail-boat they've been in for the past year now.

Kitsune286

06-11-2008, 10:11 PM

I say yay for a change away from the same places! =DThough I had hoped to see something done with Kurn's Tower.

Itsumo

06-12-2008, 02:15 AM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>IDK if it's been said or not.. but this zone will still be done regularly even if the loot sucks. Honestly, raid loot shouldn't always be better than heroic loot.Shard of Fear boss with 1 group was harder than Lord Vyemm with 4 groups.. heroic content CAN BE MORE DIFFICULT and should yield more reward than easy raids. As long as the epicx2 B.A. Bosses in this zone drop things on par with their DIFFICULTY, I don't mind.Either way.. The zone will be run for AA. There's a good bit of named in here from what I'm hearing, and everyone will want a piece of it, either this expansion or next time they raise AA cap. It's also high enough level to survive a 10 level raise on the level cap as well.. on top of being an easy way for people to gear up through T8 if they don't feel like doing every solo quest out there on the way to level 90</blockquote>LOL. Uhhhh no hehe.The zone will be run for AA once then never be used again except to farm masters or mute fodder.If RoK was any indication of how things will be in future then GL on grinding exp on mobs. Solo questing FTL.</blockquote>Try running the zone enough to get some of the rare drops before talking crap. Or do you want all of the best items to be 100% drop so you can get them without having to work for them?

TsarRasput

06-12-2008, 02:17 AM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>IDK if it's been said or not.. but this zone will still be done regularly even if the loot sucks. Honestly, raid loot shouldn't always be better than heroic loot.Shard of Fear boss with 1 group was harder than Lord Vyemm with 4 groups.. heroic content CAN BE MORE DIFFICULT and should yield more reward than easy raids. As long as the epicx2 B.A. Bosses in this zone drop things on par with their DIFFICULTY, I don't mind.Either way.. The zone will be run for AA. There's a good bit of named in here from what I'm hearing, and everyone will want a piece of it, either this expansion or next time they raise AA cap. It's also high enough level to survive a 10 level raise on the level cap as well.. on top of being an easy way for people to gear up through T8 if they don't feel like doing every solo quest out there on the way to level 90</blockquote>LOL. Uhhhh no hehe.The zone will be run for AA once then never be used again except to farm masters or mute fodder.If RoK was any indication of how things will be in future then GL on grinding exp on mobs. Solo questing FTL.</blockquote>Kizee every post I've read of yours, you have some problem with the game, and find something pessimistic to say. What exactly do you like with EQ2?

Beldin_

06-12-2008, 08:08 AM

<cite>TsarRasputin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kizee every post I've read of yours, you have some problem with the game, and find something pessimistic to say. What exactly do you like with EQ2?</blockquote>Kizee just plays the game to have something to whine about. I can remember how upset she was at the beginning of RoK about how overpowered overloaded heal items were. A while later she cryed about how worthless they are, after they had been nerfed <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Kizee

06-12-2008, 09:18 AM

<cite>Kendara@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TsarRasputin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kizee every post I've read of yours, you have some problem with the game, and find something pessimistic to say. What exactly do you like with EQ2?</blockquote>Kizee just plays the game to have something to whine about. I can remember how upset she was at the beginning of RoK about how overpowered overloaded heal items were. A while later she cryed about how worthless they are, after they had been nerfed <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I was concerned how trivial they made healing, how easy to get and how overpowered the TREASURED ones were. You can't tell me that 60,000 group heals are balanced?God forbid there is some balance in this game.

Kizee

06-12-2008, 09:19 AM

<cite>TsarRasputin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>IDK if it's been said or not.. but this zone will still be done regularly even if the loot sucks. Honestly, raid loot shouldn't always be better than heroic loot.Shard of Fear boss with 1 group was harder than Lord Vyemm with 4 groups.. heroic content CAN BE MORE DIFFICULT and should yield more reward than easy raids. As long as the epicx2 B.A. Bosses in this zone drop things on par with their DIFFICULTY, I don't mind.Either way.. The zone will be run for AA. There's a good bit of named in here from what I'm hearing, and everyone will want a piece of it, either this expansion or next time they raise AA cap. It's also high enough level to survive a 10 level raise on the level cap as well.. on top of being an easy way for people to gear up through T8 if they don't feel like doing every solo quest out there on the way to level 90</blockquote>LOL. Uhhhh no hehe.The zone will be run for AA once then never be used again except to farm masters or mute fodder.If RoK was any indication of how things will be in future then GL on grinding exp on mobs. Solo questing FTL.</blockquote>Kizee every post I've read of yours, you have some problem with the game, and find something pessimistic to say. What exactly do you like with EQ2?</blockquote>Well putting up with what SoE does for all the years I have played their products kinda does that to you. What do I like about EQ2....not much.... but friends keep me here.

TsarRasput

06-12-2008, 01:18 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TsarRasputin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>IDK if it's been said or not.. but this zone will still be done regularly even if the loot sucks. Honestly, raid loot shouldn't always be better than heroic loot.Shard of Fear boss with 1 group was harder than Lord Vyemm with 4 groups.. heroic content CAN BE MORE DIFFICULT and should yield more reward than easy raids. As long as the epicx2 B.A. Bosses in this zone drop things on par with their DIFFICULTY, I don't mind.Either way.. The zone will be run for AA. There's a good bit of named in here from what I'm hearing, and everyone will want a piece of it, either this expansion or next time they raise AA cap. It's also high enough level to survive a 10 level raise on the level cap as well.. on top of being an easy way for people to gear up through T8 if they don't feel like doing every solo quest out there on the way to level 90</blockquote>LOL. Uhhhh no hehe.The zone will be run for AA once then never be used again except to farm masters or mute fodder.If RoK was any indication of how things will be in future then GL on grinding exp on mobs. Solo questing FTL.</blockquote>Kizee every post I've read of yours, you have some problem with the game, and find something pessimistic to say. What exactly do you like with EQ2?</blockquote>Well putting up with what SoE does for all the years I have played their products kinda does that to you. What do I like about EQ2....not much.... but friends keep me here.</blockquote>Sorry I've been playing for 3 years, and it has not turned me ultra pessimistic about everything. Yes I have some issues some of the progression with mobs and gear, but I genuinely like the game, and that's what keeps me coming back, despite the flaws. I honestly question if you wouldn't find fault in ANYTHING that is done for this game, with your post history. I think Kander's done a great job on the zone, and that it's a challenging zone, with a good progression in difficulty. Even in raid gear there were still some challenging fights. Yes I have run the zone on test, multiple times and really liked it. The gear is quite good, especially for instanced gear, in addition I'm sure I've not seen nearly all of the gear. Did you know there's a named that sometimes pops, I think it was a golden scarab, we only saw it once, that drops like 9p, that's pretty cool if you ask me. I think you're trying to find fault with it, and with a mentality like that, you will no matter how good it is.

Kizee

06-12-2008, 02:09 PM

<cite>TsarRasputin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TsarRasputin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>IDK if it's been said or not.. but this zone will still be done regularly even if the loot sucks. Honestly, raid loot shouldn't always be better than heroic loot.Shard of Fear boss with 1 group was harder than Lord Vyemm with 4 groups.. heroic content CAN BE MORE DIFFICULT and should yield more reward than easy raids. As long as the epicx2 B.A. Bosses in this zone drop things on par with their DIFFICULTY, I don't mind.Either way.. The zone will be run for AA. There's a good bit of named in here from what I'm hearing, and everyone will want a piece of it, either this expansion or next time they raise AA cap. It's also high enough level to survive a 10 level raise on the level cap as well.. on top of being an easy way for people to gear up through T8 if they don't feel like doing every solo quest out there on the way to level 90</blockquote>LOL. Uhhhh no hehe.The zone will be run for AA once then never be used again except to farm masters or mute fodder.If RoK was any indication of how things will be in future then GL on grinding exp on mobs. Solo questing FTL.</blockquote>Kizee every post I've read of yours, you have some problem with the game, and find something pessimistic to say. What exactly do you like with EQ2?</blockquote>Well putting up with what SoE does for all the years I have played their products kinda does that to you. What do I like about EQ2....not much.... but friends keep me here.</blockquote>Sorry I've been playing for 3 years, and it has not turned me ultra pessimistic about everything. Yes I have some issues some of the progression with mobs and gear, but I genuinely like the game, and that's what keeps me coming back, despite the flaws. I honestly question if you wouldn't find fault in ANYTHING that is done for this game, with your post history. I think Kander's done a great job on the zone, and that it's a challenging zone, with a good progression in difficulty. Even in raid gear there were still some challenging fights. Yes I have run the zone on test, multiple times and really liked it. The gear is quite good, especially for instanced gear, in addition I'm sure I've not seen nearly all of the gear. Did you know there's a named that sometimes pops, I think it was a golden scarab, we only saw it once, that drops like 9p, that's pretty cool if you ask me. I think you're trying to find fault with it, and with a mentality like that, you will no matter how good it is.</blockquote>A whole 3 years? Wow!!! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I have about 10 years into SoE products....come back when you have that much time and see if you are so optimistic about everything. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> My main gripe with SoE in EQ2 lately is they have no "vision". They don't seem to have a plan on where they are going or what they want to do. They seem to listen to all the wrong people or try to listen to too many people and make shoot from the hip half arshed changes all the time.It doesn't take rocket science to design progression into the game but after this last expansion it's all over the map. In regards to item progression... solo>group> raid where solo and group rewards should be nowhere near what the raid rewards are like. (no exceptions) The people that say what will the group people work for....well the high end GROUP rewards! If you don't want to or don't have the time to raid then you should NOT have loot that is equal to or better than raid drops. What happened in this zone and ones to come.... they seemed to design themselves into a corner because all the old loot is too good and they have no where to go....hence the crappy loot in this zone.

Konahito

06-12-2008, 02:21 PM

Folks, let's keep the discussion centered on providing feedback and not off-roading (off-threading?) into debates about play styles and the likes or dislikes or assorted players. Thanks!

XFnarX

06-12-2008, 04:36 PM

I believe if it's a lower end instace zone then the loot should be "meh" as long as 71 ~ 75 level masters are dropping and it's on smart loot, people will go. But if the majority of the mobs are 80+ then you seriously need to rethink the loot table. (There's better stuff out of CoA.)On the flip side I also hope there are those few "wanted" items from the zone. VoES / MC / CoA all have at least 2 or 3 times that are on the want list of all players, raiding or not. One of the best examples is the PG from VoES, every mage wants one, so VoES will always be busy. Honestly I still stick by my original statement... Nizara is by far the best instance you've made... work on something with that style in mind. High difficulty, but high reward for a single group setting. Brilliant. Make it happen!My 2cp

jadsded

06-13-2008, 05:00 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><cite></cite><blockquote>I have about 10 years into SoE products....come back when you have that much time and see if you are so optimistic about everything. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> My main gripe with SoE in EQ2 lately is they have no "vision". They don't seem to have a plan on where they are going or what they want to do. They seem to listen to all the wrong people or try to listen to too many people and make shoot from the hip half arshed changes all the time.It doesn't take rocket science to design progression into the game but after this last expansion it's all over the map. In regards to item progression... solo>group> raid where solo and group rewards should be nowhere near what the raid rewards are like. (no exceptions) The people that say what will the group people work for....well the high end GROUP rewards! If you don't want to or don't have the time to raid then you should NOT have loot that is equal to or better than raid drops. What happened in this zone and ones to come.... they seemed to design themselves into a corner because all the old loot is too good and they have no where to go....hence the crappy loot in this zone. </blockquote>I understand where you are coming from. Looking at the itemization of RoK baffles me. I am a casual non-raiding player (I was much more hardcore in EQLive and raided nightly) and even I have seen major issues with this last expansion. Set bonuses are out of whack, some are completely usesless (compared to EoF - my Templar buddy is not going to wear leather or give up his shortened casting times), some are better than their raid or next raid tier "upgrades." Quest items that are soloable are as good or better than many group/raid items. How the dev that set up the itemization tables kept his job is beyond me...The items I have seen coming out of this zone are the same... For some classes I'm guessing they will be welcome upgrades, for others, situational at best. This expansion went from being one of my favorites to one of the worst I've seen. I too wonder where the devs are going to go from here...For the casual player all the solo xp from quests was phenomenal, at first, but then you hit 80 in no time flat and all the sudden... nothing to do... Right now I have nothing compelling me to play except getting lucky and seeing a Carotid Cutter or even luckier and getting a Master I can use. I have no desire to go through the same 300 quests with my Guard (sitting at 72 for the last 2 months or so he was 70 at RoK launch) to get him to 80. (Note to devs - being forced to group while leveling up - providing there is somewhere to do it - is a good thing. We all might complain about it, but everyone needs an occasional kick in the pants.)I hope when this zone goes live it will be something that everyone wants to do nightly and almost feels "required" for the non-riaders, but unfortunately I have a feeling that I will do it 2 or 3 times get some more drops that are good enough to not sell/sacrifice but not good enough to replace what I'm currently wearing and then I'll go back to TSing and watching for a COA group to need me.

Maergoth

06-13-2008, 08:44 PM

Difficulty wise, you're telling me Shard of Fear is EASIER than labs?Labs was designed for 4 groups, Shard of Fear was designed for 1. If you take 4 groups into labs, you're telling me that it will be more difficult than taking 1 group into shard of fear?That's a joke. I was single grouping labs before I was duoing Shard of Fear.How about comparing Nizara to Labs..Nizara (HEROIC, 7 People) was more difficult than labs (EPIC, 24 people) no questions asked. The loot SHOULD be better than labs loot, and it is.Zone Difficulty has NOTHING TO DO with mob con, epic, heroic, or solo.Yes, the zone would only be done once all the way through for AA *IF* there was only 6 people in the world. Next time in, you might have someone in that group who has yet to go in.. you're telling me that group won't happen because none of them need the AA? I'm not that stingy. The zone will have tons of crush fodder and god loot, worst case scenario.. and offer a place where people can go to gear up without blowing all thier cash on mastercrafted or solo questing the whole way there.

Troubor

06-14-2008, 11:12 AM

Haven't read every post. In fact to be honest haven't really read any of them, I'm just posting based on the topic title "New RE zone loot", and then adding random comments. 1) For me, I'll enjoy going to it just for the "Nostalga" factor of being able to do a version of Runnyeye without mentoring. I do mentor sometimes also, but this will be like having my cake and eating it too so to speak. I can do a tier 8 Runnyeye without mentoring..and then when friends who are levelling alts or who don't play a lot and thus have tier 4 or 5 characters want to do the old Runnyeye, I can do it also.2) To actually cover the loot, the smart loot..be it always smart loot or some chance of a needed master dropping will be nice, obviously.3) Did see somewhere (may have even been this post, but don't remember to be honest) that some items will be "bane specific" to goblins and/or other mobs in this zone. Hey, why not? Maybe this is a hint that goblins might be in the next expansion, either as "just" goblins. Suddenly these items people are complaining about have a use. Even if not, then I see no harm..what if the item is a decent item that also has a goblin bane based proc/buff too? No, I haven't looked at screenshots of the items, but I don't exactly see that as horrid. Even if the goblin bane stuff becomes the transmute fodder/junk for alts, the rare loot might more then make up for it, lootwise. (Give an example, last vaults run I had, every chest was an ornate drop...yet every chest was crush fodder too. Nothing was an upgrade at all. Yet I don't see people whining about Vaults loot, and I have no problem going to vaults again even if we risk another run of nothing but crush fodder).4) With luck, there will be some interesting lore, beyond "this is a tunnel system filled with goblins". WHY are there suddenly tougher tier 8 goblins? Did they overthrow the evil eyes now? Are they working with them now? Maybe they even somehow have THEM under their control, for a twist. That and with the new expansion most likely being based on the void..are some of these goblins corrupted like the halflings are up on the surface? Yes, I know lore is ignored by many, but there's plenty of lore hounds too, and not just on the RP servers. When I turn on befallen.lore, it seems like the replies are from every server, RP, standard, PvP and exchange.Anyway, this post I'm sure shows what I already stated, I haven't read this thread at all really, and also shows I haven't been on TEST. But I guess I'm willing to give it a try based on more then just the loot, and also have faith the loot will be decent. As an aside, with regards to the whole "should this loot be on par with raid quality gear or not.." issue...no comment. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Not going to go there, one way or another.

Odaen

06-23-2008, 02:10 PM

1 Question on smart loot... I see alot of messages in chat about "last 2 named up in RE2, need XXX class" Does smart loot take into account the group makeup at the time of the encounter? Or is it when the instance is created?

Kizee

06-23-2008, 02:26 PM

<cite>Odaen wrote:</cite><blockquote>1 Question on smart loot... I see alot of messages in chat about "last 2 named up in RE2, need XXX class" Does smart loot take into account the group makeup at the time of the encounter? Or is it when the instance is created?</blockquote>At the time when you kill the mob.....and you dont need any certain class to kill the last named.

Odaen

06-23-2008, 02:41 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Odaen wrote:</cite><blockquote>1 Question on smart loot... I see alot of messages in chat about "last 2 named up in RE2, need XXX class" Does smart loot take into account the group makeup at the time of the encounter? Or is it when the instance is created?</blockquote>At the time when you kill the mob.....and you dont need any certain class to kill the last named.</blockquote>Is this confirmed?And I didn't mean specfic classes, but more general like dps/healer/tank, etc.

Kizee

06-23-2008, 03:24 PM

<cite>Odaen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Odaen wrote:</cite><blockquote>1 Question on smart loot... I see alot of messages in chat about "last 2 named up in RE2, need XXX class" Does smart loot take into account the group makeup at the time of the encounter? Or is it when the instance is created?</blockquote>At the time when you kill the mob.....and you dont need any certain class to kill the last named.</blockquote>Is this confirmed?And I didn't mean specfic classes, but more general like dps/healer/tank, etc. </blockquote>Killed it with all of these setups:Guard, Temp, Fury, Swash, Conj, Dirge (Conj and dirge were level 75) [actually first pulled the mob with this group first time in zone and not knowing what to expect]Pali, Defiler, Temp, Monk, Dirge, WarlockGuard, Temp, Fury, Warlock, Necro, CoerSome setups are more difficult than others but its still doable.

Ironcleaver

07-03-2008, 11:35 AM

Did it all with: Guard, Temp (me), Trub, Conj, Dirge, Assassin.Just a note: the Cleric AA "protection from undead" is really awesome on the main boss fight, at the start.

Avanya

07-03-2008, 03:23 PM

I've been through RE a number of times now. I like the zone. It can be challenging depending on group make up. The nameds have all kinds of tricks they throw at you. There are 3 (that I know of) quests from outside of RE which give you some decent armor if you're not fabled out. There are 3 collection/tome quests (this is off the top of my head and I only read the first page of this post as the thought of reading 14 pages gave me a headache). One of those collection quests leading to a blue shiney collection (with some very nice rewards). There are 2 quests inside RE.The boss can drop some very nice wrist/ear items (fabled). I have been there with fabled players who were there for the chance of getting one. The cloaks for each class are pretty nice too.As far as the other loot goes, I find a lot of the items to be of equal value to RoK dungeons. The items are just different. I'm wearing 2 leather pieces and a shield from there (I'm a warden). I did give up some power and stats to wear them but the effects were well worth it for me (lots of +crit heal and + heal). The items I switched out had nicer power and stats BUT those items had effects that were useless for me.Is this going to be a dungeon where raiders can get cool stuff to replace their armor? No and ummm it shouldn't be. It's a group instance. Not everything in the game is for hard core raiders.I think over all that RE is a success. It wasn't intended to replace all your gear. It's in the same realm as CoA, Vaults etc..But hey, no matter what Sony does, some people will never be happy. Just human nature.

theriatis

07-04-2008, 06:09 AM

Does this zone really drop fabled ?I've just heard rumors about it, but in 7 runs, it never dropped more than a legendary chest...Must be an urban legend then (or my whacky kind of luck, i guess).Regards, theriatis. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

theriatis

07-21-2008, 05:21 AM

Hi,the next week full of dungeonruns, a RE2 run every day, 1 (one) Masterchest in the whole week... with the cheapest SK Master there is (no, we didn't have an SK in the group)...Thanks a lot for the hardest and longest group encounter zone today and crapRNG.Regards, theriatis.

josie67

07-21-2008, 11:58 AM

Well after running RE2 approximately 5 times per week since it came out, I finally saw 2 healer cloaks drop in the last 3 runs ( YAY I won one), while I saw ZERO cloaks of any kind drop before that. The epic x2 seems to drop the fabled wrist 50% of the time ( of course they have been all scout and one fighter). So yes the fabled still drop, but darned if that RNG isn't finicky.

theriatis

07-22-2008, 03:36 AM

So,could you just up the Drop Rate in RE2 in a way, that at least one single master chest will drop there per run ?Running 1 week straight, 7 times with the same group (yeah, also was kind of a test there), we got ONE in the whole week. One. And the one we got was the crappiest Master there is for a class we didn't have (SK).So, with a master rate THAT low, there's no interest (and fun) to run it any further. I mean, in terms of replayability there should be NOT dropping the masters like candy from every trash mob, but please, give me a break, 1 Master Chest in a whole week of runs.... The most zones before had at at least one mob which dropped a master (Boss in Nizara / Unrest).The Time Investment and Risk vs Reward is to bad for a zone that long and hard.We normally run CoA, Maidens and VoES in the same time, a heluvalot easier and get more rewarded (2-4 Master chests per day) so something is wrong here, or is it just me ? Am i over demanding ?Regards, theriatis.

Jaradcel

07-22-2008, 04:54 AM

I've run this zone several times and observed the loot in my guild window from others in my guild running it and while the fableds are very nice, and goblin bane is an interesting mechanic, I'm a little disappointed with the loot rewards from quests. Sure, they have nice stats and some nice effects, but more often than not it appears to me (And I could, of course, be wrong) the amount of hp/pow on it doesn't justify giving up whatever legendary quested or dropped I picked up in jarsath wastes. I'm not saying the items are bad per se, but that perhaps a small bump in hp/pow may be desireable as otherwise I would pick what I have over that. This is me in non-fabled gear too btw for comparison because comparing the legendaries with fabled is of course, unfair. It's purely on a legendary to legendary basis.