How is PvP in EQ2?

[qsnoopyjr]

Is it just plain free for all, or is there special rules, teams, etc??

[Greggthegrmreapr]

<p>Qeynos VS. Freeport with the exiles saying F em all.</p><p>If you want to know all the rules, its best to read some of the stickies in this forum.</p>

[KatrinaDeath]

Denna... Do you really play a half-elf female shaman with black hair?

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Denna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you want to know all the rules, its best to read some of the stickies in this forum.</p></blockquote>Agreed. Asking "How is the PvP" is only going to get you about 30 different opinions ranging from "It sucks" to "Its incredible" and a bit of everything in between.

[Greggthegrmreapr]

<cite>Jordin@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Denna... Do you really play a half-elf female shaman with black hair?</blockquote>Yes.  Used to be blonde, till I became a Defiler.

[Zacarus]

They've been monkeying with the ruleset for 2+ years and mostly made things better.  But when they introduced xp for pvp kills they torpedo'd the game for many, and the pvp population has been in steady decline since.

[KatrinaDeath]

<cite>Denna@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jordin@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Denna... Do you really play a half-elf female shaman with black hair?</blockquote>Yes.  Used to be blonde, till I became a Defiler.</blockquote>ROFL... I was a blonde til I became Mystic.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Zacarus@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>But when they introduced xp for pvp kills they torpedo'd the game for many, and the pvp population has been in steady decline since.</blockquote>That had nothing to do with it. After all 8 of the people upset they couldn't gank newbs anymore up and quit (or pretended to quit) it was business as usual with the exception of the occasional whine here and there that their god mode was taken away from them.Besides, the increase in new players since pvp exp was implemented has more than compensated for any departed twinks.

[Faenril]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zacarus@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>But when they introduced xp for pvp kills they torpedo'd the game for many, and the pvp population has been in steady decline since.</blockquote>That had nothing to do with it. After all 8 of the people upset they couldn't gank newbs anymore up and quit (or pretended to quit) it was business as usual with the exception of the occasional whine here and there that their god mode was taken away from them.Besides, the increase in new players since pvp exp was implemented has more than compensated for any departed twinks.</blockquote>Do you guys get access to SOE's internal data to be able to make those statements ? In order to evaluate the impact of that change you would need to know how many quit BECAUSE of that change (and only because of that), and how many new players stayed THANKS TO that change (and wouldn't have stayed otherwise).Yes, it's impossible to know, even for daddy SOE.So you are only posting you personnal feeling, strongly influenced by your opinion/playstyle <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Nobody can say if the pvp xp change was more harmful than profitable, on the other hand nobody can deny pvp servers population has been steadily decreasing over the last year.Fixing the twinks issue is one thing, but without any action to attract a massive influx of new players (like marketing the game), it's a waste anyway.

[Zacarus]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zacarus@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>But when they introduced xp for pvp kills they torpedo'd the game for many, and the pvp population has been in steady decline since.</blockquote>That had nothing to do with it. After all 8 of the people upset they couldn't gank newbs anymore up and quit (or pretended to quit) it was business as usual with the exception of the occasional whine here and there that their god mode was taken away from them.Besides, the increase in new players since pvp exp was implemented has more than compensated for any departed twinks.</blockquote><p>That had nothing to do with "what?" When you say, "nothing to do with *it*," what do you mean by "it?"</p><p>You may disagree, and I'm only submitting opinion, since I don't have hard data, but to me its plainly obvious the player base on nagafen has declined. The decline seems to be directly aligned to the update when they introduced xp for pvp kills.</p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Faerie@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>So you are only posting you personnal feeling, strongly influenced by your opinion/playstyle <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>I am posting my own observations. The people who claimed they were quitting, didn't. And, I have seen more new players not only arrive daily, but stay longer than level 20 since pvp exp was implemented.Doesn't take raw data to see the obvious.And, they have stated that combat logs were examined thoroughly before deciding to take this action. The goal was to deter people from camping the newbie areas. Not ruin the fun for people who didn't want to level past T3 as so many like to believe.This is a tired argument. Its already very clear that nobody is going to remove the pvp exp so you can go back to your "glory days". So, you can continue to kick and scream like a spoiled 6 year old in the toy aisle at Walmart. In the meantime everyone else is going to go back to playing the game in the manner in which it was designed.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Zacarus@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You may disagree, and I'm only submitting opinion, since I don't have hard data, but to me its plainly obvious the player base on nagafen has declined. The decline seems to be directly aligned to the update when they introduced xp for pvp kills.</p></blockquote>I respect your opinion. And, I can't speak for Naggy. But, on Venekor the newbie areas have been continuously active rather than a two or three huddled in immunity for hours at a time after getting their first 10 deaths inside of an hour of creating their characters.So, if all the newbie griefers quit and that had a direct impact on the population. Then I say quality over quantity then.

[Duckman]

The one thing I've never understood about games that have added PvP over the last five years is why anyone thinks the whole concept should be easy for someone who is just starting out.  What on earth gave Joe Newbie any more rights then Tommie Twinkie when it comes to the imposition of play style or the opportunity to have it easy?  Furthermore, why do PvP rulesets always bring out newbie defenders, people who become convinced that they know what is best for the server?  Lastly, does it make me socially or morally deviant if I admit that I don't care if anyone's newbie experience is better today then my initial one when PvP rulesets went live?  I've never really understood this phenomenon, but that's not really the question that is being asked; forgive me for musing.PvP today is fine.  It's different then what it once was in the "olden times" that I remember, but it's still fun.  The server I play on (Nagfen) is much quieter then before PvP gave you experience, but that does allow me the best chance to quickly re-advance through the levels so I'm not complaining./hugz!

[Zacarus]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its already very clear that nobody is going to remove the pvp exp ...</blockquote><p>They appear to be bringing shrink back, albeit in a limited form. So the puppet masters have the capacity to listen, learn, adapt and tinker previous ruleset changes.</p><p>I won't hold my breath, but will hope they're reading the Disable PvP xp after 30 thread.</p>

[Faenril]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Faerie@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>So you are only posting you personnal feeling, strongly influenced by your opinion/playstyle <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>I am posting my own observations. The people who claimed they were quitting, didn't. And, I have seen more new players not only arrive daily, but stay longer than level 20 since pvp exp was implemented.Doesn't take raw data to see the obvious.And, they have stated that combat logs were examined thoroughly before deciding to take this action. The goal was to deter people from camping the newbie areas. Not ruin the fun for people who didn't want to level past T3 as so many like to believe.This is a tired argument. Its already very clear that nobody is going to remove the pvp exp so you can go back to your "glory days". So, you can continue to kick and scream like a spoiled 6 year old in the toy aisle at Walmart. In the meantime everyone else is going to go back to playing the game in the manner in which it was designed.</blockquote>Ok you posted your observations, so let me post mine:My lvl 33 monk on Veny made less than 50 kills from lvl 20 to 30 (I know 50 kills may be a lot for you :p), which means he barely met any freep. You may argue I suck ( <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) but even this way I should get more kills if I met enough freeps.And that was while leveling only by questing and doing a lot of farming in SH and FG.I'm not defending twinks by any mean, I think the issue had to be adressed somehow, but I just wonder where are the tons of new players we were supposed to get after the twink "fix".

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Faerie@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>My lvl 33 monk on Veny made less than 50 kills from lvl 20 to 30 (I know 50 kills may be a lot for you :p), which means he barely met any freep. You may argue I suck ( <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> ) but even this way I should get more kills if I met enough freeps.And that was while leveling only by questing and doing a lot of farming in SH and FG.<span style="color: #ff0000;">I would never tell another player they suck. Mostly because I personify the Suck aspect of PvP. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So, yes, 50 kills does sound like a lot to me. On my assassin (33) I think I've gotten about 9 "kills". Now, this would seem low if one assumed by "kills" I meant fights. From 15-33.. my assassin has seen hundreds of fights. Mostly group fights where I either die or the Qs got away. I'd say majority of the fights my assassin and Fury (24) have seen have been in DLW, TS & EL. Neither of them have ever even seen the entrance of FG with the exception of picking up the L&L book for Zombies.</span>I'm not defending twinks by any mean, I think the issue had to be adressed somehow, but I just wonder where are the tons of new players we were supposed to get after the twink "fix".<span style="color: #ff0000;">They're right where they were before. Brand new players are questing in TD & DLW. I passed about 12 freeps yesterday morning in off hours just on my way from Neriak to the Faire to catch the carpet to SS. I'd imagine there's typically many more during peak hours. Also, while doing the tradeskill quest in TS on my dirge (23) I counted about 9 or 10 freeps questing and harvesting at their leisure without a Q to be seen. Me thinks you're just hunting in the wrong places.</span></blockquote>

[Bloodfa]

New players are in TD.  That's why there's a TD2 about 80% of the time on Nagafen. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 

[Faenril]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention the time I spent doing BBM, TS, and Nek quests, pretty undisturbed... K I got it all the new players are in TD.... Then it would be nice to see those legions of new players outside newbie zones, all the way to T8. Wouldn't it make sense about what...6 months after the fix ? Or did all the newbies lock and twink to own newer newbies (would be rather ironic) <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Bloodfa]

<p>Well, some of them have, ironically. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />  They ran out, got owned a couple of times, took some suggestions to heart, and are slowly levelling up.  At least some of the guys in our guild did.  They're tradeskilling to gear up, and make coin.  They're using their level 30's to get supplies for their teen toons.  And some are in their 40's and moving right along.  The point is, they stayed.  Most didn't, at least a year ago.  </p><p>You put your fighting gear on and step onto the mats at the dojo against somebody comparably skilled, you'll learn a lot.  And have fun, even when you get clocked hard enough to get winded.  Once in a while fighting a fourth degree black belt will leave you realizing you've got a lot to learn, and you'll appreciate those fights against the lower ranks more.  Stepping onto the mat to get pummeled repeatedly by someone you have no chance to beat, and would be lucky to even land a single kick on, over and over, constantly being beat down in the middle of a lesson just because they could ... 99% of the people who wanted to study would either quit in disgust, with the assumption that everybody else was a tool and just waiting for their chance to show off, or they'd find another dojo.  It's bad for business.</p><p>You're on Venekor?  The server that several 80's are saying is devoid of players?  Or at least PvPers?  That sounds more like a server issue than gameplay.  And for what it's worth, I'm all for allowing locking mid-20's and higher.  Just not in the teens.  Doorblockers are never any fun in <i>any</i> game.</p>

[Faenril]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You're on Venekor?  The server that several 80's are saying is devoid of players?  Or at least PvPers?  That sounds more like a server issue than gameplay.</p></blockquote>No, I'm on Nagy, just too lazy to update my forum profile <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Transfered my main few months ago, tired of the empty T8 zones.And I quit my T4 alt for the same reasons, and rerolled a new alt on Nagy, which got enough pvp up to now ^^.I agree it is partly (mainly) a server issue. I was just describing my experience on a server where some posters keep telling us the pop is fine...

[Bloodfa]

Ah, gotcha.  Kind of like playing an FPS with Friendly Fire turned off. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />