Wizard is going in the useless category [Archive]

Shanth

05-22-2008, 03:19 PM

I would want to understand as it is possible that the wizard, that would have to be the class dps for excellence, he is coming destroyed.If we consider an equipment equivalent for every class, the wizard at the moment it is the dps that it produces less damage.Assassin, Ranger etc are going better than a wizard, they can do double damage that a wizzy.But the totally absurd and inconceivable thing is that the bruiser, that is a tank, and the coercer, that it is a mezzer/utility, they make the double quantity of the damage of a wizard. I have a Wizard that have 53% spell crit without buffs and 954 int without buff and i have to see a Coercer that made double damage than me?????????? or a Bruiser????Oh yes, but i have Ray of Disintegration!! WOOOOOT!!! So nice upgrade!! WOOOOOT!!! So nice usefull spell!!!!!If to the soe they wanted to eliminate the wizard like playing class, were enough to say it from the beginning.Manaburn that made 4/1 damage = everage output 35-45K damage and 0 power when with ice bolt and fission u can made more with many power......... bahRay of Disintegration that it comments alone.......One year of post, report, petition to fix Surging tempest!!!Sincerely if many persons go on aoc or other games, I understand to them and a lot probably I am one of those, in a year you have not put nothing of beautiful, nothing usefull, only joke like guild house or Lon that all hate with also your spamming message!!! and when u made a petion asking why warden charm don't work on a bee but work on a dragonfly they answer that it's maybe sentient.......................................... ................................................

Roald

05-23-2008, 03:27 PM

If a wizard isn't always in the top 3, often first or second, then I'd recruit a new wizard, and kick the old one.They are the definition of a T1 DPS class.

Skwor

05-23-2008, 06:34 PM

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If a wizard isn't always in the top 3, often first or second, then I'd recruit a new wizard, and kick the old one.They are the definition of a T1 DPS class.</blockquote>Better start kicking then. If you haven't been paying attention assassins, rangers and brigands are starting to own all raids and this is a direct result of changes SoE made to spell hit rates and resists. Nothing to do with player skill just a plain old fashion pork job on wizards.

thajo

05-23-2008, 07:33 PM

In a total stacked group I did 8k zonewide in CoD, was my best run but was also my most stacked group (inq, mystic, illu, troub). If you're dps is lacking you are probably getting shafted on group setup. Wizards can still top our parse though for plenty of zones. And assassins and rangers should be fairly contendable with wizards on the parse, because they are more or less the sorcerers of scouts if you will. (ie. just like us, they don't provide any powerful ally buffs, major mob debuffs etc - just raw high powered damage). Other classes if skilled enough can certainly hang but, looking at zonewides and IME they are not dominating sorcerers and predators.

SacDaddy420

05-23-2008, 08:09 PM

I have alot of problems taking 1st away from scouts in yellow-conned zones. In VP or CoD or Avatars I do ok , however if we are supposed to be equal to assassins we need a bump in DPS or lower mobs resistability. Assassins are the kings of DPS currently

Roald

05-23-2008, 10:13 PM

<cite>SacDaddy420 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have alot of problems taking 1st away from scouts in yellow-conned zones. In VP or CoD or Avatars I do ok , however if we are supposed to be equal to assassins we need a bump in DPS or lower mobs resistability. Assassins are the kings of DPS currently</blockquote>Not everyone is going to be able to top the parse. If wizard did consistantly, then Assassins should be buffed, and so on and so forth.Saying Wizards are going into the 'useless' category is stupid, they are amazing DPS.And to the above poster, Its very rare to see a Brigand outparse a wizard.

Skwor

05-24-2008, 11:14 AM

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SacDaddy420 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have alot of problems taking 1st away from scouts in yellow-conned zones. In VP or CoD or Avatars I do ok , however if we are supposed to be equal to assassins we need a bump in DPS or lower mobs resistability. Assassins are the kings of DPS currently</blockquote>Not everyone is going to be able to top the parse. If wizard did consistantly, then Assassins should be buffed, and so on and so forth.Saying Wizards are going into the 'useless' category is stupid, they are amazing DPS.And to the above poster, Its very rare to see a Brigand outparse a wizard.</blockquote>It was rare. Please note that the current state of the game the assassin's ALWAYS TOP the parse in all raids all raid levels. Wizards are not! amazing DPS at the moment nor should they ever be. I keep pointing this out but so many just keep making crap up. Read the posts watch the parses; wizards are doing 5-7 k assassins are doing 8+ and are less dependent on group make up. A wizard will occasionally hit 9+ but assassins crack 10 more often. Wizards and assassins are supposed to be fighting for the top spot. THAT AIN'T HAPPENING! Heck Daray the person who wrote the darn <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=418277" target="_blank">wizards guide </a>that nearly all wizards have used has given a <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=412072" target="_blank">nice detailed description </a>of this <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=412072" target="_blank">very phenomenon</a>. So to you the above poster who thinks we are amazing DPS and are actually competing with assassins, I ask, how did you come to that conclusion??!!

Roald

05-24-2008, 09:11 PM

<cite>Skwor wrote:</cite><blockquote>So to you the above poster who thinks we are amazing DPS and are actually competing with assassins, I ask, how did you come to that conclusion??!!</blockquote>My information is mainly the Parse thread on EQ2Flames, where the average is around 7k, with a range from 6.5k-8k.7k is very good DPS. Assassins may be topping that, but Wizards get some nice utility too for the mage DPS group. They are in no way shape or form useless.

Tanit

05-25-2008, 08:57 AM

<cite>Shanthya@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>But the totally absurd and inconceivable thing is that the bruiser, that is a tank, and the coercer, that it is a mezzer/utility, they make the double quantity of the damage of a wizard.</blockquote>Well.. if you manage to only parse half of that of a coercer or bruiser the issue is the player, not the class.

Skwor

05-25-2008, 10:44 AM

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skwor wrote:</cite><blockquote>So to you the above poster who thinks we are amazing DPS and are actually competing with assassins, I ask, how did you come to that conclusion??!!</blockquote>My information is mainly the Parse thread on EQ2Flames, where the average is around 7k, with a range from 6.5k-8k.7k is very good DPS. Assassins may be topping that, but Wizards get some nice utility too for the mage DPS group. They are in no way shape or form useless. </blockquote>Assassins ARE topping it and doing so easily. Where we must have a perfect group to even hope of getting those numbers assassins groups can be much more varied and yet they still stay solidly on the number 1 slot.Wizards ARE NOT nice utlility and this has been worked out in many other threads so please don't hijack this one into a wizard utlility. We are not and provide VERY LITTLE in that way. The test to easily disprove this. Ask yourself how many of a wizards spells are ever asked for in a raid to buff someone else? Another utlility test is how many raids have been cancelled becuase OMG we don't have a wizard? (answer NONE) There is nothing a wizard can bring to the table for utlility that can't easily be dwarfed by several other buff classes. If a raid leader is depending on wizard utlility you better be finding another guild fast becuase that one is clueless.

Roald

05-25-2008, 11:36 AM

Wizards have good utility for the mage DPS group. It wouldn't be a true mage dps group without a wizard, the same way it wouldn't be without a troub or Illy, just to a slightly lesser extent.So saying a class that does 6-8k DPS consistantly (from the parses people on EQ2Flames are showing, Zonewides seem to average at 7kish) and has good utility for the Mage DPS group is useless, is frankly absolutely incorrect.

iceriven2

05-25-2008, 01:41 PM

<cite>Skwor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skwor wrote:</cite><blockquote>So to you the above poster who thinks we are amazing DPS and are actually competing with assassins, I ask, how did you come to that conclusion??!!</blockquote>My information is mainly the Parse thread on EQ2Flames, where the average is around 7k, with a range from 6.5k-8k.7k is very good DPS. Assassins may be topping that, but Wizards get some nice utility too for the mage DPS group. They are in no way shape or form useless. </blockquote>Assassins ARE topping it and doing so easily. Where we must have a perfect group to even hope of getting those numbers assassins groups can be much more varied and yet they still stay solidly on the number 1 slot.Wizards ARE NOT nice utlility and this has been worked out in many other threads so please don't hijack this one into a wizard utlility. We are not and provide VERY LITTLE in that way. The test to easily disprove this. Ask yourself how many of a wizards spells are ever asked for in a raid to buff someone else? Another utlility test is how many raids have been cancelled becuase OMG we don't have a wizard? (answer NONE) There is nothing a wizard can bring to the table for utlility that can't easily be dwarfed by several other buff classes. If a raid leader is depending on wizard utlility you better be finding another guild fast becuase that one is clueless.</blockquote>Dude you are soo wrong... since your talking about raid dps wizards have some the most dps oriented utility for mages..iceshape, gift and Rod bring up to or more then 1k dps for each person in there grp if u know how to use it... in raids that is. Seriously those spells are the reason why guilds like confirmed still want and or would recruit a wizard if they didnt have one. You want to figure how to be the t1 dps everyone on these boards thinks we are not... check out eq2flames... foul language in it, but a unmatched wealth of info on eq2, hell they even have more ppl in there forum then these eq2's offical forums. Seriously need to stop whining and complaining, just b/c some wizards cant do it... with a large amount of wizards knowing what there doing... the Dev's arent going change stuff just b/c a portion of the wizard player base sucks. So my advice to everyone.. deal or learn to be better.

Skwor

05-25-2008, 03:19 PM

<cite>iceriven2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skwor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skwor wrote:</cite><blockquote>So to you the above poster who thinks we are amazing DPS and are actually competing with assassins, I ask, how did you come to that conclusion??!!</blockquote>My information is mainly the Parse thread on EQ2Flames, where the average is around 7k, with a range from 6.5k-8k.7k is very good DPS. Assassins may be topping that, but Wizards get some nice utility too for the mage DPS group. They are in no way shape or form useless. </blockquote>Assassins ARE topping it and doing so easily. Where we must have a perfect group to even hope of getting those numbers assassins groups can be much more varied and yet they still stay solidly on the number 1 slot.Wizards ARE NOT nice utlility and this has been worked out in many other threads so please don't hijack this one into a wizard utlility. We are not and provide VERY LITTLE in that way. The test to easily disprove this. Ask yourself how many of a wizards spells are ever asked for in a raid to buff someone else? Another utlility test is how many raids have been cancelled becuase OMG we don't have a wizard? (answer NONE) There is nothing a wizard can bring to the table for utlility that can't easily be dwarfed by several other buff classes. If a raid leader is depending on wizard utlility you better be finding another guild fast becuase that one is clueless.</blockquote>Dude you are soo wrong... since your talking about raid dps wizards have some the most dps oriented utility for mages..iceshape, gift and Rod bring up to or more then 1k dps for each person in there grp if u know how to use it... in raids that is. Seriously those spells are the reason why guilds like confirmed still want and or would recruit a wizard if they didnt have one. You want to figure how to be the t1 dps everyone on these boards thinks we are not... check out eq2flames... foul language in it, but a unmatched wealth of info on eq2, hell they even have more ppl in there forum then these eq2's offical forums. Seriously need to stop whining and complaining, just b/c some wizards cant do it... with a large amount of wizards knowing what there doing... the Dev's arent going change stuff just b/c a portion of the wizard player base sucks. So my advice to everyone.. deal or learn to be better.</blockquote>Dude you are sooo wrong. OMG have you even read the threads on RoD? It gets banned on raids becuase of interupts and even when timed right with a message to the groups it actually costs more DPS than you get from it!! That is from both this forum and EQ2Flames which I have been reading for a very long time. Yes I use Velium and Ice Gift and have tested RoD and it no way on hell adds 1k dps (do you really think it adds 1000 points of damage every second for each member in the group?? /bog). Velium is definatly a great spell but it ain't utlility and it is strictly burst not sustainable. Velium at best 550 for each cast a person can get off. Uhmm how many people have spells that cast in under a second instantly refresh to cast again? That is what it would take to add 1k DPS to each member! Adding RoD it takes nearly 5 seconds to cast, average spell damage of 5500 (and yes it does get resisted)and interupts everyones casting order and has a long enough refresh to only allow it once a main encounter. Also RoD only works with mages so the healer in the group, the bard, and whatever support outside of a mage get NOTHING from it. This typically results in at best 3 mages using RoD- woop de dooo! You honestly think a combination of these two add 1k dps to each memeber in the group for a raid encounter?? Dude the math doesn't add up. Three typical group members can't even use RoD!! So if Assassin's (and scouts in general) are doing more DPS (which they are) than there counterpart cloth, even assuming your right that a wizard adds 1k dps (which you are absolutly wrong on) so what a mage group still does less than the melee group, and a mage group requires a perfect set up everytime which a melee does not, and therefor it is starting to make more sense to drop the cloth and go all melee and go with the real cloth utlility class.Oh and nice parting shot saying everyone sucks who basically disagrees with you. That would include those I guess who have posted on <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:EQ@flames" target="_blank">EQ@flames</a>- you know, the very web sight you say to go to so I can learn something. Funny thing here. Daray, the guy who has posted the WONDERFUL WIZARDS GUIDE on EQ2Flames agrees on this point. That is, he agrees atm there is a desparity between wizards and assassins, oh wait can't be, guess that means he sucks, no wait we all suck becuase well, we arn't agreeing with you.SO my advice to you is to learn the spells of a wizard before making such a stupid statement like RoD adds to each group members DPS. Again RoD only works on MAGES, might want to pull your pants up, your ignorance is showing.

pldem

05-26-2008, 05:57 AM

<cite>iceriven2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Dude you are soo wrong... since your talking about raid dps wizards have some the most dps oriented utility for mages..iceshape, gift and Rod bring up to or more then 1k dps for each person in there grp if u know how to use it... in raids that is. Seriously those spells are the reason why guilds like confirmed still want and or would recruit a wizard if they didnt have one. </blockquote>Your math is wrong. Please show me how you can get an advantage of over 1K from FG+Iceshape. No way because it's impossible.

Roald

05-26-2008, 07:34 AM

I think we all agree Assassins can pull higher DPS. Wizards get more utility that they do.They are certainly not useless, end of.

Skwor

05-26-2008, 10:10 AM

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think we all agree Assassins can pull higher DPS. Wizards get more utility that they do.They are certainly not useless, end of.</blockquote>end of....NOTSoE has specifically stated Wizards and assassins are tier 1 dps and are each others counterpart. As such by Sony's own philosophy we are to be competing with them, period!! That would be the end of it! No we do not get more utlility and no one to date has effectively shown wizards has being real raid utlility. Coercers, Illusionist, Bards, Dirges, Brigand... they get utility. Wizards do not! Since you seem intent on hijacking this thread on utlility let's try a few.Mana Infusion - 4 second cast 18 second recast (average numbers) when Mastered. That is 22 seconds for 309 power, average raider power 10k + (if your less than, get better gear) that is 3% roughly every 22 seconds. Having tried over and over again I can tell you every time I actually have tried to use it the response is the same. It goes like this - We need feeds, I already did, Oh we still need feeds! Definatly not a raid requirement or even a raid saving spell in any form RAID UTILITY BUSTEDWizard Mez HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA nough said RAID UTILITY BUSTEDBlade of Ro - Nice spell but limited to group, typically in a wizard's raid group 1 member in the group can effectively use it. I would actually consider this a raid spell if it could be cast on raid members. As it is group only, in the raid enviroment it becomes less than significant and therefor not a factor on raids. RAID UTILITY BUSTEDWizard single target in group invis, never used in raid RAID UTILITY BUSTEDWizards int and str buff's - better buffs available from the true utility classes and easily hard cap limited in raid such that what gets added by it has no effect RAID UTILITY BUSTED (if your taking a wizard for these buffs you are taking the wrong class)Wizards Fire and Ice buffs - Moderate use, haven't seen this actually be a raid issue in a while though, considering how useless resists have become CURRENTLY RAID UTILITY BUSTED ( though this could change if SOE actually makes resists useful again)Velium + Ice Gift - Nice DPS purely burst and are not near as effective as the above poster tried to oversate I persoanlly do not consider this utility but DPS, I guess some could call this Utility though. RAID USEFULLRoD HAHAHAHHAHAHAH uhm no really .. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHH RAID UTILITY BUSTED (see my above post on RoD)There, now considering an assassin can use different types of poisons which can help the raid it seems at best a wash when comparing RAID utility between a wizard and assassin, given an assassin can take a hit which allows them time to survive for a heal and a wizard is pretty much toilet paper stamina with any raid mob, in my opinion the assassin is unfairly advantaged in both survivability, DPS, and overall raid use compared to a wiz. No we are not more usuefull, we cannot conmpete with and we have less survivability than an assassin and as gear improves several other melee are actually competeing with wizard DPS. This is a poor state for the class considering SoE's supposed position that we share tier 1 dps WHICH ATM WE DO NOT!

iceriven2

05-26-2008, 01:54 PM

Since again the theory of ppl on forums having selective reading is proven... i will only say this onceFIRST- to the guy that posted about wizard utility... plz read what i said... dps utility. Iceshape/gift and rod does bring dps to a grp in a raid...<a href="http://www.eq2flames.com/conjurors/24323-ray-disintegration-3.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.eq2flames.com/conjurors/...egration-3.html</a>HERE IS THE LINK... Pinski and Malingnx say it the best...these two ppl belong to the best raid guilds in the game... even though there not wizards... they know there [Removed for Content] and what they dont know the wizard in guild probably knows itSecond here is a qoute directly from the devs <cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite>I've been looking through the data again. I just don't see how you guys can say you are locked to t7 dps. In a raid perspective you are not far behind the assassin. wizard and assassin are pretty much neck and neck. The ranger is right behind them with the swashbuckler. In the raids its like almost perfect balance how they line up. Somedays things shift around slightly but in general things look pretty much dead on. This is one reason I'm trying to go with smaller changes rather than overshooting and having to scale back. Now looking at the group data you get a different perspective. The rogues, assassins and bruisers definitely excel here but you are still neck and neck with the wizards and warlocks. I've also noticed wizards complaining in group situations as well so you arent alone here. Group fights are fast and furious no doubt about that and the top classes here definitely have a bit better setup for these situations but when you look at raids where the fights lengthen you see how they really fall into place. All of this data is something I will keep analyzing for sure. This is why I am trying to keep to small adjustments like I have said in the past. In the meantime though, we need less of these outrage threads because they do not end up helping you out since they are distracting while trying to find the few good suggestions from the level headed folks.So according do there data we are right up there with assassin.BUT i do agree over all they have it better and easier when it comes to out dpsing us. AND my opinion still stands we have dps utility.. as in we help increase out grps dps and we are good dpsers.. good enough to still be wanted!!!

Skwor

05-26-2008, 03:24 PM

<cite>iceriven2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since again the theory of ppl on forums having selective reading is proven... i will only say this onceFIRST- to the guy that posted about wizard utility... plz read what i said... dps utility. Iceshape/gift and rod does bring dps to a grp in a raid...<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/conjurors/24323-ray-disintegration-3.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/conjurors/...egration-3.html</a> (1)HERE IS THE LINK... Pinski and Malingnx say it the best...these two ppl belong to the best raid guilds in the game... even though there not wizards... they know there [I cannot control my vocabulary] and what they dont know the wizard in guild probably knows it(1)Second here is a qoute directly from the devs(2) <cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite>I've been looking through the data again. I just don't see how you guys can say you are locked to t7 dps. In a raid perspective you are not far behind the assassin. wizard and assassin are pretty much neck and neck. The ranger is right behind them with the swashbuckler. In the raids its like almost perfect balance how they line up. Somedays things shift around slightly but in general things look pretty much dead on. This is one reason I'm trying to go with smaller changes rather than overshooting and having to scale back.Now looking at the group data you get a different perspective. The rogues, assassins and bruisers definitely excel here but you are still neck and neck with the wizards and warlocks. I've also noticed wizards complaining in group situations as well so you arent alone here. Group fights are fast and furious no doubt about that and the top classes here definitely have a bit better setup for these situations but when you look at raids where the fights lengthen you see how they really fall into place. All of this data is something I will keep analyzing for sure. This is why I am trying to keep to small adjustments like I have said in the past. In the meantime though, we need less of these outrage threads because they do not end up helping you out since they are distracting while trying to find the few good suggestions from the level headed folks.So according do there data we are right up there with assassin. (3)BUT i do agree over all they have it better and easier when it comes to out dpsing us. AND my opinion still stands we have dps utility.. as in we help increase out grps dps and we are good dpsers.. good enough to still be wanted!!!</blockquote>(1) I read it and again you are dead wrong. Read what I quoted from you. You said Velium and Ice Gift + RoD easily add 1k+ dps to each group member. You are still dead wrong and are trying to defelct the fact you got caught with your pants down. Fact is RoD only works on mages so that killed your whole point earlier. And I wasn't the only on who pointed out Velium does no where near the damage you tried to claim. Now to prove your point you go to supposed "experts" who are not wizards. Why quote a non wizard as an expert? Seems a bit odd. I don't go to a plumber for surgery, what you just did was a classic logical fallicy called a false appeal to authority. Just becuase they are an expert in one thing does not make them an expert in anything else. Let's let wizards determine how well thier spells are and not some other class. I am sure other classes don't want me telling them what is good and not and where they belong in the grand scheme of things. (2) Who is selective quoting now? You are. This is porbably a ranger post response. Why don't you give us the actual link? I will tell you. Because this response is most likely pre gu 44 and prolly pre gu 43 it appears to be a response to ranger arrows and hit rates, the part about wizards, I suspect, is refereneced prior to gu 44 and posible even gu 43. The comment about locked at t7 was a common ranger complaint about thier arrows. That is an amazing bit of projection there, you claim others are selective in thier post reading and then you post this dooosey of a response, simply staggering. Notice the underlined part, it says but you are still neck and neck with the wizzies and warlocks who are BELOW the rogues assassins and bruiser, now who is left, oh ya RANGERS! So what you qouted was not specific to wizards and I would like a date on that to see where it really stands compared to the issues that have arisen after GU 43 and 44.(3) Who is right up thier with assassins? When was this group up there? Note, that even according to your own post it admits wizards are lacking in groups. DATES and the intended audiance on your quotes are needed to get the proper context.Would you like to try again? I still submit Wizards are currently lacking in raids and assassins are unchallenged in all raids on all raid levels with much less diffuculty in achieving the uncontersted top slot. Wizards need a perfect group and some of the rarest gear where as assassin's can still hold the top slot unchallanged with a mix of groups and legendary gear.Now for an exit question spawned by your own research. Why is it appropriate for assassins to excel not only at raids but groups as well? There sure seems to be alot of love for a class who already has it a bit to well.

Roald

05-26-2008, 04:34 PM

Skwor, I think I'm at a loss for words. Are you just putting this on as an act or is the degree of intelligence you're portraying in your posts a true reflection of self?No where did I say Wizards have the best raid utility, no where did I say they are better than bard/enchanters etc. I said they were better than assassins for utility.Is that right or wrong?

Skwor

05-26-2008, 04:41 PM

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Skwor, I think I'm at a loss for words. Are you just putting this on as an act or is the degree of intelligence you're portraying in your posts a true reflection of self?No where did I say Wizards have the best raid utility, no where did I say they are better than bard/enchanters etc. I said they were better than assassins for utility.Is that right or wrong?</blockquote> Wrong!Thanks for insulting my intelligence, perhaps I should question yours? Have you ever heard of posions? As for what you said, I was pointing out that even what utlility we might have is not anything to bring to a raid when others bring so much more. I also said before and I say now, at best it is a wash between wizard and assassin utliliy so you had your answer to your ending question in my previous post. How is it you question my intelligence when you seem unable to read an answer already given and ask a redundant question? I will answer yet again more thoroughly here.First see my above post about wizards utilitySecond, why does everyone forget about poisons? let me remind eveyone what poisons can do just for debuffsDebuff poisons have a 15% proc rate and 60 procs per charge. They reduce the resistances, stats, or abilities of the target. (Descriptions are from Agra's primer) <ul><li>Enfeebling Poison: Reduces Strength, Crushing skill, Ranged skill, Piercing skill, and Slashing skill of your target. This makes it much harder for your target to hit YOU (or your raid or groups tank). </li><li>Cerebral Ebb: Reduces Intelligence, Disruption skill, Subjugation skill, Ministration skill, and Ordination skill of your target. This is the bane of Mage/Priest targets, particularly Mages with the Intelligenct debuff. This will increase the fizzle rate of your PvP targets and reduce the effectiveness of any target's skills involved with offensive spells as well as healing spells. </li><li>Gracelessness: Reduces Agility, Parry skill, Defense skill and Deflection skill of your target. The advantage of using this poison is that it makes your target much easier to hit. </li><li>Warding Ebb: Decreases Wisdom, and decreases mitigation of all magical damage. Now, that doesn't say magic damage, it says magical damage. That's an important distinction. Magical damage is all non-physical mitigations. All. That means all arcane, all noxious, and all elemental mitigations are reduced. That includes poison. </li></ul>Now show me where a wizard can can do even small percentage of what poisons enable ALL scouts to do? This my friends is utility for a raid, not a one time Velium or the meek Mana Infusion.

simpwrx02

05-26-2008, 05:03 PM

Roald

05-26-2008, 08:58 PM

How often are Assassins put in the MT group over melee DPS? Normally, a MT group will use a Coercer and Dirge for utility. Maybe a Swash if aggro is an issue.

revren

05-27-2008, 12:06 AM

Hey Hey Warlocks are in the same boat. I understand that every class needs DPS with 10 crappy solo lvls to go threw and i understand then when the utilty ppl speak of is just buffs and is most likly boring in a raid situation. Either way the game mechanics need some help every class should be fun and needed on a raid not to sure SOE can do it..welcome Home rev

theriatis

05-27-2008, 07:05 AM

Hi,as i said before, Wizards are good DPS.... IF they are in a Wizzy Support Group. Wizards (and i think also warlocks) are extremely dependant on the group setup, much, much more than Assassins, Rangers, Briga or Swashis...Put them in a Group without Troub = They will die. (Because of the Lack of Serenes Tranquill Serenade)Put them in a Group without Illu = They lack Castspeed and Reusespeed (which is A LOT for a Wiz)The Templar / Inqui do have a lot of nice buffs... the Warlock also.If the Wizard is in an ideal caster group (i would say Illu, Troub, Inqui/Templar, Warlock, maybe SK/Pala/Fury) than he can do good DPS.If he is NOT, his DPS is halved, at best.Anyone stating that a Wizard can always do good DPS is always in the right group setting with the right Buffs.Please show me how you can do 3k zonewide without any of the above mentioned classes in your group, in a Pre-VP Raidforce.Regards, theriatis.

simpwrx02

05-27-2008, 03:07 PM

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>How often are Assassins put in the MT group over melee DPS? Normally, a MT group will use a Coercer and Dirge for utility. Maybe a Swash if aggro is an issue.</blockquote>We have an assassin in the MT group almost every single fight, except when a little extra survivabilty is needed then the assassin is replaced by a druid and the raid has to scale back dps a little to not pull aggro, but since we are getting better geared up it is less often that we put a 3rd healer in the MT group. Why would you waste the 6th spot on a non hate passer. Assns parse higher than swashies, so why have a second rate hate passer for the MT.... unless of course you want to include all those AE fights..... Also not sure if you noticed, but the MT group is fairly melee dps orientated, unless dirges and chanters dont help melee dps....I would guess 90% of raid guilds have a assn passing hate to the MT, or a swashy.

Loendar

05-28-2008, 01:01 PM

thajo

05-29-2008, 11:08 AM

<cite>Pretty Blue text = teh answersSkwor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>SoE has specifically stated Wizards and assassins are tier 1 dps and are each others counterpart. As such by Sony's own philosophy we are to be competing with them, period!! That would be the end of it! No we do not get more utlility and no one to date has effectively shown wizards has being real raid utlility. Coercers, Illusionist, Bards, Dirges, Brigand... they get utility. Wizards do not! Since you seem intent on hijacking this thread on utlility let's try a few.Mana Infusion - 4 second cast 18 second recast (average numbers) when Mastered. That is 22 seconds for 309 power, average raider power 10k + (if your less than, get better gear) that is 3% roughly every 22 seconds. Having tried over and over again I can tell you every time I actually have tried to use it the response is the same. It goes like this - We need feeds, I already did, Oh we still need feeds! Definatly not a raid requirement or even a raid saving spell in any form RAID UTILITY BUSTEDSure it gets minimal use. Were not enchanters though and if a healer or someones gets power drained, aka ZERO power. That bump can be enough to get a couple things going again. It happens.Wizard Mez HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA nough said RAID UTILITY BUSTEDlolz meh, like a solo bonus. Keep in mind toons were made solo/raid ready, the game isn't made to just go raid 100%.Blade of Ro - Nice spell but limited to group, typically in a wizard's raid group 1 member in the group can effectively use it. I would actually consider this a raid spell if it could be cast on raid members. As it is group only, in the raid enviroment it becomes less than significant and therefor not a factor on raids. RAID UTILITY BUSTEDI've always though this would be cool raid-wide but its not needed. We have 3 open concentration slots. Fact is it gets use. You have a troub in every group right? Its not totally uncommon to have an extra melee in mage group sometimes - give it to them. Very minimal, would get more use being raidwide like synergism though imo. I wouldn't go as far as to say not a factor, you should be giving it to the troub at minimum.Wizard single target in group invis, never used in raid RAID UTILITY BUSTEDWhat, you don't want invis? Is invis even a raid function? Helloooo, as I said classes are made to be solo/raid capable. I love our invis and you should be happy that we can run while casting ours, some classes envy that nifty bonus. Just cause we don't press it in a raid doesn't change anything. Just cause stealth is a component of scout attacks doesn't mean we can't have a friggen invis for luxury purposes.Wizards int and str buff's - better buffs available from the true utility classes and easily hard cap limited in raid such that what gets added by it has no effect RAID UTILITY BUSTED (if your taking a wizard for these buffs you are taking the wrong class)Eh, what do you want for a stat buff? It's not a busted spell, as i said, you are trying to imply we should be a troub where every group buff we have is incredibly and highly desired. Were not troubs, just wizzies. Lots of classes get a simple +stat/stat buff. I would totally take +STA over +STR though.Wizards Fire and Ice buffs - Moderate use, haven't seen this actually be a raid issue in a while though, considering how useless resists have become CURRENTLY RAID UTILITY BUSTED ( though this could change if SOE actually makes resists useful again)Maybe your logic is busted, these buffs have nothing to do with helping resists. Although word on the streets is mages can proc frigid gift without ice shape...but its been like over a year since I've casted frigid gift without ice shape, so i don't know. The fireshape buff assertion has me thinking you are not very bright. The fireshape was created so we can take advantage of Ro temp damage proc, that only procs off HEAT spells. So if the fight is still going or Iceshape is down, I que up fireshape/fire dmg proc to gain a little dps boost. Fireshape is a solo buff because it was made for us, and the fire proc is solo. Iceshape was made group to go hand-in-hand with frigid gift, a group dmg proc. What exactly do you not understand about these spells? It is not busted and it pisses me off when people say such silly things like this because they have no idea what they are talking about. The fact that you separated our fire/ice buffs and frigid gift into 2 catagories make me think your a do-do head. (I might use it to help resists if I duel someone...but I don't see a blob of ice coming and spam fireshape.)Velium + Ice Gift - Nice DPS purely burst and are not near as effective as the above poster tried to oversate I persoanlly do not consider this utility but DPS, I guess some could call this Utility though. RAID USEFULLWizards are pretty highly desired by the other mages for this dps boost. This might be the only part of the whole post you hit the nail on, this is a very desireable buff.RoD HAHAHAHHAHAHAH uhm no really .. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHH RAID UTILITY BUSTED (see my above post on RoD)This is just hog-wash and untrue. Not even going to waste my time to school you on this. Summoners/Enchanters beg me to cast this in raid so they can boost their own dps. Also as far as our spells go and dps they provide. Fission > bolt of ice > Ball of magma > RoD > Magma Chamber. Magma Chamber and RoD are verrryyy close, but RoD just barley slips ahead last time I calculated it.There, now considering an assassin can use different types of poisons which can help the raid it seems at best a wash when comparing RAID utility between a wizard and assassin, given an assassin can take a hit which allows them time to survive for a heal and a wizard is pretty much toilet paper stamina with any raid mob, in my opinion the assassin is unfairly advantaged in both survivability, DPS, and overall raid use compared to a wiz. No we are not more usuefull, we cannot conmpete with and we have less survivability than an assassin and as gear improves several other melee are actually competeing with wizard DPS. This is a poor state for the class considering SoE's supposed position that we share tier 1 dps WHICH ATM WE DO NOT!Umm, our wizards pretty much end up on top of the zonewide. Don't know what you're talking about. Our wizards usually top zonewides, period. Maybe you don't but, fact is wizards are still fully capable zonewide dominators. I mean i can't help but read that paragraph and think its just utter BS because it totally conflicts my personal experience for the last couple months. You need to open your eyes and learn how to suit a wizard. I have my VP 2 piece bonus and on brutal fights where survivability becomes an issue, I can add 3 more legendary stoneskin procs. Sure if we pull aggro in VP we'll prolly get face owned, but in general the amount of stoneskin we can use (notice its tagged mage only) is borderline overpowered. Heck in duels I put on stoneskin gear and manashield and actually stood toe to toe and defeated a mythical brusier/gaurdian and also a brigand. There are certainly routes a wizard can take if survivability is needed.Wizard is the only class i've ever leveled to cap and it upsets me to see such slander and BS about this class that is just flat out not true. Or people trying to make us something we arn't. We are balls to wall dps and are capable of totally smashing a zonewide. Other classes can to but I beleive all classes at their max potential a wizard/warlock is pretty tough to knock.</blockquote>

simpwrx02

05-29-2008, 12:07 PM

Sorry but if you have an assn in raid and he isnt toppinghte parse, then he needs to figure out how to play his class. Wizards do respectable dps, and assns do rediculous dps plain and simple. Only time I have a good chance of beating the assn on a parse is when i have manaburn up, other than that the assn is almsot always top of the parse.If a healer in your raid gets drained to zero odds are your raid fubared something and is going to struggle to recover, so wizzy power transfer is basically a joke with extremely minimal use.the mez [Removed for Content] solo use are you serious wow i can mez the mob and myself, only sueful when in a group and the tank is already struggling and there is no other CC avail.Blade of Ro- woot if near perma proc adds ~100 dps, but being in a mage group who really uses it even troub, maybee a str specced chanter. it really adds up to nothing.invs, well honestly this is about wizards being t1 dps whotf cares about solo dps, either you live or you die, this can be accomplished with a few different methods, invs is a non issue and since it is comparing to assns who can stealth in combat and neither is a utlity imho.str/int buff yup slightly useful of course 4 of the 6 mages get a int buff and the str is nice because it allows you to carry strongboxes for gear...heat/cold resist buff- very situational always up because well we have nothign else to buff, with resists on diminishing returns the 1k to each means jack, not sure why listed as fire/ice instead of heat/cold but w/e.gift/iceshape- useful to raise dps, ice shape onyl helps a wizard/conj proc gift, all others proc it reguardless.RoD varies a lot on raid setup if it is used, once you get the master and it averages over 10k per cast peeps like it, untill then not many will ask for it as it takes a long time to cast and interupts thier spell.I put up about 5-6k ZW on trash in VP, assn is about 500-1k above me, go to SoH lol I am happy to break 4k and assn drops a little due to his posions hittign for a littel less damage, but he is now 2-3k above me in dps.Add in the fact that nox is really the only spell damage type that gets fully debuffed all the time in a raid, and it is a wonder that wizards can even parse. Added the fact that the wizard debuff is our most resisted spell when it shoudl be our least resisted spell. Well i take that back Glacial shield is our most resisted because it uses ordination.... not really sure why, it I guess it may have use to be a buff would love if this was disruption based ability.

theriatis

05-30-2008, 04:32 AM

<cite>thajoka wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pretty Blue text = teh answersSkwor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Wizard Mez HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA nough said RAID UTILITY BUSTEDlolz meh, like a solo bonus. Keep in mind toons were made solo/raid ready, the game isn't made to just go raid 100%.</blockquote></blockquote>Hi thajoka,with this Answer you have pretty disqualified yourself, because you have NO IDEA and NEVER PLAYED a Wizard.Why ? The answer to that accusation is simple: You don't know how the Wizard Mezz works, because it mezzes the Target AND THE CASTER for the Duration of the Spell. Every Wizard knows that.If you show me how useful that is in Soloplay, you're welcome.For the Rest: We were discussing the RAID UTILITY usability and DPS on RAIDS, Solo or groupplay was not an issue in this thread. So, stop telling us how useful something is in solo or groupplay, but you may open a new thread about solo or groupplay issues (or the lack thereof) of wizards.Regards, Theriatis.

Trilarian-2

05-30-2008, 01:28 PM

<cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Hi thajoka,with this Answer you have pretty disqualified yourself, because you have NO IDEA and NEVER PLAYED a Wizard.Why ? The answer to that accusation is simple: You don't know how the Wizard Mezz works, because it mezzes the Target AND THE CASTER for the Duration of the Spell. Every Wizard knows that.If you show me how useful that is in Soloplay, you're welcome.</blockquote>I use the mez solo all the time. The idea of the mez is to let your spell timers reset. So imagine this situation, you take on an encounter of 3 mobs. You group root and mow down the first mob. Move on to the second and manage to defeat it, but now all your big hitters are recovering and the mob breaks root. This is the ideal time, hit the mez and now both of your are locked in position, but you are not taking damage. Wait, wait, there it is! Ice Comet/Nova/Bolt is ready to go again! Break mez, stun or reroot and blast away.In group, it is very limited and situational. The only time in group I've used the mez is if I'm out of power and there are more than one mobs left for the group to take out. Then I'll make an attempt to mez. In reality, I think I've done this group mez maybe twice in my career as a wizard.

theriatis

05-30-2008, 02:39 PM

<cite>Trilarian-2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Hi thajoka,with this Answer you have pretty disqualified yourself, because you have NO IDEA and NEVER PLAYED a Wizard.Why ? The answer to that accusation is simple: You don't know how the Wizard Mezz works, because it mezzes the Target AND THE CASTER for the Duration of the Spell. Every Wizard knows that.If you show me how useful that is in Soloplay, you're welcome.</blockquote>I use the mez solo all the time. The idea of the mez is to let your spell timers reset. So imagine this situation, you take on an encounter of 3 mobs. You group root and mow down the first mob. Move on to the second and manage to defeat it, but now all your big hitters are recovering and the mob breaks root. This is the ideal time, hit the mez and now both of your are locked in position, but you are not taking damage. Wait, wait, there it is! Ice Comet/Nova/Bolt is ready to go again! Break mez, stun or reroot and blast away.In group, it is very limited and situational. The only time in group I've used the mez is if I'm out of power and there are more than one mobs left for the group to take out. Then I'll make an attempt to mez. In reality, I think I've done this group mez maybe twice in my career as a wizard.</blockquote>Ok, so the Mez is useful for certain situations. I did never user the Mez, because there was never really the need of, even in Soloplay, if the root breaks i'm normally a dead mage, but it refreshes fast enough and i'm a careful soloer with lots of castskill gear on.So, i was wrong, but i can admit that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Now, back to the topic... Raid Utility, Raid DPS... i would also say something to the Rest, but all is said about that in upper posts...Regards, Theriatis.

KNINE

05-30-2008, 10:31 PM

my guild has cleared VP and working on trak and in almost all the raids our assassin is number one , hands down... wizzie usually number 3 or 4 but they get beat easily be 2k dps...which okay by all means let that be but in raids most wizzies are about 3k less HP/and wear cloth/and have what 3 ways to get rid of aggro, a buff with 3% hate transfer (woo-hoo) and two deaggros.. which aren't that instant cast so takes away from dps lol... assasins wear chain, have instant hate reducers for when they pull aggro (and they will) and get crazy with all the double attack gear.. etc they get from ROK... so give wizzies some more mit or make scouts wear some leather like it should have been the entire time in the first place lol, hell most scouts can tank and hvae to in certain raids lol.... lets make it a little bit more balanced one or the other ...

mcavellero

05-30-2008, 11:18 PM

I've been saying it for soooo long!!! There is something wrong with how wizards are parsing on raids.Take tonight, have a trouby+time compression in lev raid zone(single target). Assassin is parsing 5.4-6.5k unbuffed I am doing 3.5-4.2k...every spell is casted, nothing is left unchecked using the best combos avail...I researched, experimented, tried everything cannot get up to par with the assassin(been playing this class for 4+ years).To reinforce what others have said: wizards rely on buffs(without they cant even get close...), cloth armor(scouts chain armor), casting timers for deaggros(scouts insta cast), 3 % hate transfer(15-24% for assa/swash).Something is very wrong with this picture... I don't think scouts should get nerfed, they should however make some changes to wizards.Thoughts: Solution 1: they really need to boost our dps significantly via casting/recast timers or increase damage of spells(to compensate for chain armor and insta cast deaggros/higher hate transfer %)Solution 2: Bring our dps up to par of assassin and give us a slightly higher hate deaggros(make em insta too) and higher hate transfers Why...? to compensate for chain armor...

daray

06-01-2008, 10:20 PM

<cite>mcavellero wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thoughts: Solution 1: they really need to boost our dps significantly via casting/recast timers or increase damage of spells(to compensate for chain armor and insta cast deaggros/higher hate transfer %)Solution 2: Bring our dps up to par of assassin and give us a slightly higher hate deaggros(make em insta too) and higher hate transfers Why...? to compensate for chain armor...</blockquote>Or they should just fix epic mob WIS and spell mitigations to their pre-GU43 levels. While melee hit rates were fixed in GU44, it seems apparent that spell damage / mit changes were left at their Gu43 levels.

Burnout

06-02-2008, 05:08 AM

as a warlock - after reading this thread - i had to laugh and cry sametime... wizzards, the sorc class with evac,mezz,str/int grpbuff,velium gift complain on lack of uttil? wizzards, the sorc class that soe favours on 99% of raidenc. = singel enc. complain on dps?if you're behind anything else than scouts on parse, you slack - have bad gear - or are crapy buffed. but surely it's no question of your classs. even we outdmg anything than scouts....

simpwrx02

06-02-2008, 12:29 PM

<cite>Burnout wrote:</cite><blockquote>as a warlock - after reading this thread - i had to laugh and cry sametime... wizzards, the sorc class with evac,mezz,str/int grpbuff,velium gift complain on lack of uttil? wizzards, the sorc class that soe favours on 99% of raidenc. = singel enc. complain on dps?if you're behind anything else than scouts on parse, you slack - have bad gear - or are crapy buffed. but surely it's no question of your classs. even we outdmg anything than scouts....</blockquote>DO you laugh at yourself as well?evac woot use it every raid.... oh wait i dont.mezz hahaha are you serious it mezzer the wizard if you count that as utlity pass me some of what you are smoking and it dosent affect epics...str/int buff... woot my auto attack goes up by 30 damage per swing, int is already far into the soft capVelium gift, yup that is what we bring and that is it.Locks the sorcs that bring tones of utility to teh raid casting skillz buffs... about 25 tiems better than an int buff as it lets you get fewer resists especially after GU 43.str/int debuff allows for less damage to the MT.. honestly a non real utility, but you pointed out worthless ones so i will as well.decrease targets max health/power woot allows for verdict to be cast slightly sooner as it lower how much 2% of a mobs health is 2%... once agin see above.Grasp of Berttoxx.. DS that can be placed on MT to help him maintain aggro as it gives the damage credit to teh tank. So this is a okay piece of utlity, nothing special, but better than the wizard group buff/mezz/evac...If you really think of a sorc as utility you need to wake up and smell the coffe. They are there to dps, nothing else... as for more single target mobs.... guess what wizards have the same damage/AEs as your 3 fast recasts, absolution is basically Solar Wind, radiation is basically electron storm, and your 4 tick out of encounter, ( cant remember the name) is exothermocity... So while you say the encounters are desinged for wizards once again wake up and realize they are more designed for assns. Wizards like AE fights as well oh and fission if it hits 3 mobs it dose as much if not moer than upheaval hittign 5 mobs... just saying wizards are AE friendly.Also warlock single target nukes are very simliar to all teh fast recast wizard nukes... distrotion = ball of magma in damage, acid is a little bit harder hittign that RO's Coil, Vacuum field is same damage as heatwave only it has 1 more tick, aura of pain does a littel less than glacial shield, but you get all 3 triggers every time. the [Removed for Content] starting nuke is the exact same solar flare for wizzy, dissolve for locks I htink, Flames of velious is the same.... Warlock mythical gives 30% damage bonus to AE spells and makes then single target meanign you have more single target big nukes that wizards have. Yes wizards do a bit more single target dps and locks do a bit more AE dps, but the gap is not as large as you make it out to be, fiction can be fun.And i woudl say more liekly that the expansion has been designed around scouts and the GU 43 caster nerf si a prime example of "balancing dps" to put scouts on top.

mcavellero

06-02-2008, 02:10 PM

/agree *Wizard Utility is pretty much useless. Groups burn stuff down and losing the dps is not worth keeping 1 mob mezzed *Str/Int due to rok gear int/str is pretty much capped out to a point of having no effect for someone decently geared*Velium Gift is useful in grps for a brief period of dps(not as good as dispatch though) *Deaggros not instant and evacs have casting times tooWarlocks +Disruption skill rules!!!

Kule

06-02-2008, 07:29 PM

The only thing I can fully agree in this thread is that: Wizards rely heavily on group and group only single target buffs.It's this reason that you will often see a bias towards some other DPS classes in certain settings.Casual raids, pickup groups, groups without hate/aggro mods, etc.I can somewhat agree that melee DPS progress through gear much earlier than casters in general. Although, Sorcerers are pretty low on the list of people being screwed by itemization at the moment.Personally, on a lighter note, I'm glad wizards only have a couple things that use broken mechanics. There are some classes that need some actual fixing, as opposed to tweaking.

mcavellero

06-02-2008, 10:58 PM

cadd do you own a wizard? Most likely you dont or your dont care about getting on top of the parse once in a while(not always). See I have seen a few types of people that take issues with are rational argument about wizard problem areas.#1 Another class that wants to consistantly stay at the top or have other dps classes that are not able to compete with them.#2 Wizards that A) have serious dissonance issues("Ive invested loads of time into this toon...everything must be right...everything is right"<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> or B) don't raid or don't know what ACT is....Itemization, resists, whatever the cause is...the problem comes down to dps output; we cannot compete currently with assassin and even brigands at times, not OWN key word=compete. I don't care if there is better itemization for scouts or earlier itemization for scouts; what I care about is dps output. And it pretty embarassing when you have all the buffs in the world, good gear, and put out the best cast order/dps output and are still shy 2-4k of an assassin with chain armor, hate transfer, instant deaggro, and no buffs.

Kule

06-02-2008, 11:37 PM

<cite></cite>Yes, Mcavellero, I do have a Wizard. Yes, he is my main; he is the only character I have at 80 and the only one I play. I don't think I have "serious dissonance issues". I raid and have ACT running even when I am doing solo quests.You have a few good points, and contrary to your implication, I have yet to refute anything in this thread. After trying my best to translate your sorry post into something that remotely makes sense, it seems you have concluded that I refute the fact that Wizards are not top DPS. I have, in fact, said nothing of the sort.I do not appreciate your calling me out in such a childish manner. Next time you try to lecture somebody in such an aggressive fashion, make sure you are addressing something the person has actually said or done.<cite>mcavellero wrote:</cite><blockquote>cadd do you own a wizard? Most likely you dont or your dont care about getting on top of the parse once in a while(not always). See I have seen a few types of people that take issues with are rational argument about wizard problem areas.#1 Another class that wants to consistantly stay at the top or have other dps classes that are not able to compete with them.#2 Wizards that A) have serious dissonance issues("Ive invested loads of time into this toon...everything must be right...everything is right"<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /> or B) don't raid or don't know what ACT is....Itemization, resists, whatever the cause is...the problem comes down to dps output; we cannot compete currently with assassin and even brigands at times, not OWN key word=compete. I don't care if there is better itemization for scouts or earlier itemization for scouts; what I care about is dps output. And it pretty embarassing when you have all the buffs in the world, good gear, and put out the best cast order/dps output and are still shy 2-4k of an assassin with chain armor, hate transfer, instant deaggro, and no buffs. </blockquote>

mcavellero

06-02-2008, 11:59 PM

<cite> Sorry cadd you started off with "The only thing I can fully agree in this thread is that" which is kind of argumentive/in disagreement. I thought you were another forum troll. To me, it did sound like you felt wizards were fine except with the issue of them being dependent of buffs which I totally disagree with because there are lots of dire wizard issues they should address; there's def some balance issues!</cite><cite>I did not mean to offend you in any way and don't think I came off childish but Im sorry you felt that way and once again that's not my intention. My intention is to however send a clear message to devs. And perhaps from their view when the message is inconsistant, especially from the class, it does not seem like an issue at all...</cite><cite></cite><cite>Cadd@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Yes, Mcavellero, I do have a Wizard. Yes, he is my main; he is the only character I have at 80 and the only one I play. I don't think I have "serious dissonance issues". I raid and have ACT running even when I am doing solo quests.You have a few good points, and contrary to your implication, I have yet to refute anything in this thread. After trying my best to translate your sorry post into something that remotely makes sense, it seems you have concluded that I refute the fact that Wizards are not top DPS. I have, in fact, said nothing of the sort.I do not appreciate your calling me out in such a childish manner. Next time you try to lecture somebody in such an aggressive fashion, make sure you are addressing something the person has actually said or done.<cite>mcavellero wrote:</cite><blockquote>cadd do you own a wizard? Most likely you dont or your dont care about getting on top of the parse once in a while(not always). See I have seen a few types of people that take issues with are rational argument about wizard problem areas.#1 Another class that wants to consistantly stay at the top or have other dps classes that are not able to compete with them.#2 Wizards that A) have serious dissonance issues("Ive invested loads of time into this toon...everything must be right...everything is right"<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15" /> or B) don't raid or don't know what ACT is....Itemization, resists, whatever the cause is...the problem comes down to dps output; we cannot compete currently with assassin and even brigands at times, not OWN key word=compete. I don't care if there is better itemization for scouts or earlier itemization for scouts; what I care about is dps output. And it pretty embarassing when you have all the buffs in the world, good gear, and put out the best cast order/dps output and are still shy 2-4k of an assassin with chain armor, hate transfer, instant deaggro, and no buffs. </blockquote></blockquote>

Shanth

06-06-2008, 12:43 PM

All wizards that say that wizard is going good and others have to learn how to play is better that they try do same without personal Troubador, illusionist etc that buff them!!!Why there aren't any raid parse where there are 2 wizard in the first 2 place???Easy, cause 1 Trouba or 1 Illu cannot buff 2 Wizards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!U never see 2 wizard at the top istead a 2-3-4-5 Assassins or bruisers or coercers...Assassins etc can be at the top without nobody that buff them!![Removed for Content] mean that I as a Wizard, can compete only if have 30 others players that are there only buffing me??????????? and also.. if Assassins or others dps are buffed same as me, they made again double than my damage and i cannot do nothing!!! And for luck that the Wizard should be the DPS reference......Wanna do a caster DPS??? Wanna do a Wizard??? nah, do a Coercer, that is a realy DPS!!!! At least soe think so.....

Mahaya

06-07-2008, 07:03 PM

<cite>Shanthya@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>And for luck that the Wizard should be the DPS reference......Wanna do a caster DPS??? Wanna do a Wizard??? nah, do a Coercer, that is a realy DPS!!!! At least soe think so.....</blockquote>Go to the coercer boards, they are complaining they currently do 25% less damage on average in raids than Illusionists, and Im sure they (Illusionists) are complaining about something as well.

KNINE

06-08-2008, 10:47 PM

Its funny.. visit this visit that etc.. other people complaining.. yes everyone complains about something, but this has been this way forever... wizzie's wear cloth.. no mit... 3-4 sec casts.. little to no deaggros.... scouts wear chain...pretty quick cast CA's... couple deaggros, not threat reducers, but hate list droppers.. why they have this? because they can pump out tons of DPS... not saying nerf this or that... but [Removed for Content] if wizzies have to wear cloth give them more damage or if u donm't want to change damamge then make scouts wear leather...but yea all this would mess up the game with bugs lol so we'll never see a change and you'll always see and assassin at the top of the parse.. no matter what hands down !! only time a wizzi ewill be there is if a few people are ninja afk [Removed for Content]

Jasuo

06-09-2008, 12:11 AM

Wizards can pump out amazing dps, more than scouts and still keep from getting aggro. Our wizards [I cannot control my vocabulary] the parse and die alot less than even I do, unless you count the one with [Removed for Content] hp dying to ae's. Wizards definitely do not need more of a boost in damage that's for sure. It's the hit rate/wisdom/mitigation changes that screwed every caster over.Edit - To the ones saying thajoka has no idea about how to play a wizard just go delete your accounts now please, or just go check out <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=793219105" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this person</a> and [Removed for Content].

thajo

06-09-2008, 02:21 AM

<cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>thajoka wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pretty Blue text = teh answersSkwor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Wizard Mez HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA nough said RAID UTILITY BUSTEDlolz meh, like a solo bonus. Keep in mind toons were made solo/raid ready, the game isn't made to just go raid 100%.</blockquote></blockquote>Hi thajoka,with this Answer you have pretty disqualified yourself, because you have NO IDEA and NEVER PLAYED a Wizard.Why ? The answer to that accusation is simple: You don't know how the Wizard Mezz works, because it mezzes the Target AND THE CASTER for the Duration of the Spell. Every Wizard knows that.If you show me how useful that is in Soloplay, you're welcome.For the Rest: We were discussing the RAID UTILITY usability and DPS on RAIDS, Solo or groupplay was not an issue in this thread. So, stop telling us how useful something is in solo or groupplay, but you may open a new thread about solo or groupplay issues (or the lack thereof) of wizards.Regards, Theriatis.</blockquote>Gonna try to ignore the fact that you were a blatent jerk and are being quite assuming and overzealous about things. Obviously mezzing myself is pretty useless solo. In a group of 6 if 1 inc add is going to wipe some tank/group, mezzing it for 20 seconds could be enuf. As I said, i've done this maybe 3 times. I never praised it or said it was sweet - just sayin' don't knock it just cause you don't personally see a viable use for it - even if its a small chance of ever having that occur. I understand your talking about raid utility so, listing every spell on our hot-bar then critisizing the ones that were not meant for raid play is just stupid. Toons are not made to be strict raid machines otherwise we would all have cures. Critisize our raid/group related buffs - don't pull irrelavent things that were simply given for purposes outside of raiding and slam it like its incorrect.I'd think twice though before saying I have no idea about a wizard <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />ps. omg how a convo changes direction! Were goin new places now <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

DCarnage2

06-09-2008, 12:18 PM

Here's a very in depth wizard guide. Use it, live by it and stop fing complaining. Could be worse, you could dps like a Defiler. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/wizards/11961-maximizing-dps-raid-wizard-guide.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/wizards/11...zard-guide.html</a> or <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=418277" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=418277</a>

G'ville

06-13-2008, 02:13 PM

Skwor

06-13-2008, 02:58 PM

<cite>DCarnage2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's a very in depth wizard guide. Use it, live by it and stop fing complaining. Could be worse, you could dps like a Defiler. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/wizards/11961-maximizing-dps-raid-wizard-guide.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/wizards/11...zard-guide.html</a> or <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=418277" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=418277</a></blockquote>Congradulations on trivializing yourself. If you use those guides it is only a start. If you think they are the "be all" then your DPS will never pass that of a troub!DPS like a defilier? Wow again you look silly. Uhm they are healers why would you use them as a DPS standard, as if they are not doing DPS they should be? If I was a defilier I would be worried about my healing and NOT my DPS. In case you forgot:Defilers are a <a href="http://www.eq2daily.com/eq2wiki/Classes" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">class</a> under the <a href="http://www.eq2daily.com/wiki/index.php?title=Priest&action=edit" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">priest</a> archetype. Shaman (<a href="http://www.eq2daily.com/eq2wiki/Mystic" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mystics</a> and defilers) heal in an unusal sense; they lean more toward prevention of damage as opposed to restoring health. You are nothing more than a "Defiler wanna be dps" on kithcor server. As such you don't know jack about mage high end DPS. Even if you have a mage (can't be sure as you have access to your alts blocked on eqplayers) it is obvious you are clueless about cloth DPS issues, go be a jerk elsewhere. Enough melee keep this up and mages just may decide to start "crying for a nerf" as opposed to asking for balance. Ya, I know it doesn't do any good but it is very annoying to have other classes screaming to have your main nerfed or dismissing real issues they have little understanding of.

Skwor

06-13-2008, 03:26 PM

<cite>thajoka wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>thajoka wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pretty Blue text = teh answersSkwor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Wizard Mez HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA nough said RAID UTILITY BUSTEDlolz meh, like a solo bonus. Keep in mind toons were made solo/raid ready, the game isn't made to just go raid 100%.</blockquote></blockquote>Hi thajoka,with this Answer you have pretty disqualified yourself, because you have NO IDEA and NEVER PLAYED a Wizard.Why ? The answer to that accusation is simple: You don't know how the Wizard Mezz works, because it mezzes the Target AND THE CASTER for the Duration of the Spell. Every Wizard knows that.If you show me how useful that is in Soloplay, you're welcome.For the Rest: We were discussing the RAID UTILITY usability and DPS on RAIDS, Solo or groupplay was not an issue in this thread. So, stop telling us how useful something is in solo or groupplay, but you may open a new thread about solo or groupplay issues (or the lack thereof) of wizards.Regards, Theriatis.</blockquote>Gonna try to ignore the fact that you were a blatent jerk and are being quite assuming and overzealous about things. Obviously mezzing myself is pretty useless solo. In a group of 6 if 1 inc add is going to wipe some tank/group, mezzing it for 20 seconds could be enuf. As I said, i've done this maybe 3 times. I never praised it or said it was sweet - just sayin' don't knock it just cause you don't personally see a viable use for it - even if its a small chance of ever having that occur. I understand your talking about raid utility so, listing every spell on our hot-bar then critisizing the ones that were not meant for raid play is just stupid. Toons are not made to be strict raid machines otherwise we would all have cures. Critisize our raid/group related buffs - don't pull irrelavent things that were simply given for purposes outside of raiding and slam it like its incorrect.I'd think twice though before saying I have no idea about a wizard <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />">ps. omg how a convo changes direction! Were goin new places now <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>No, it is not. Why would I address them all? It is simple. Posted in the forum was a generic statement that wizards get more utility and it was left at that. The poster did not say what utility nor under what circumstances. As such, I tired to post a comprehensive look at wizard utility from the raid perspective and this you call stupid? Classic screwed if you do or do not scenario. I leave mez out and someone tries to use it as utility, I put it in and you say it is not raid utility (which by the nature of my post is actually pointing this out albeit in an aggressive manner). It is not irrelevant when it is included to address all buffs and how they affect raid play. What was irrelevant was how you interjected it as a useful utility for something other than raids. The topic is clearly about raid utility and interjecting how something can be useful outside of a raid (though I will still argue it is not as there are more useful spells that can be used in its place) is irrelevantConsidering that everytime utility comes up the person stating it talks about "all the utility" a wizard has and then lists all the percieved utlilty spells on the hot bar. As such listing all the possible utility spells and debunking or validating them actually makes sense. Also using mez 3 times in a career as a wizard makes it next to useless imo. I would argue rooting them then pulling back makes a heck of a lot more sense. You have more time to react ( as such more time to regen if you need mana) and are still group functional. Why is that mez better than a root? The root lasts longer and your not locked down. So you can regen longer or get away. Seems a poor choice when soloing to choose mez over root.

DCarnage2

06-13-2008, 07:06 PM

<cite>Skwor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DCarnage2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's a very in depth wizard guide. Use it, live by it and stop fing complaining. Could be worse, you could dps like a Defiler. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/wizards/11961-maximizing-dps-raid-wizard-guide.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/wizards/11...zard-guide.html</a> or <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=418277" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=418277</a></blockquote>Congradulations on trivializing yourself. If you use those guides it is only a start. If you think they are the "be all" then your DPS will never pass that of a troub!DPS like a defilier? Wow again you look silly. Uhm they are healers why would you use them as a DPS standard, as if they are not doing DPS they should be? If I was a defilier I would be worried about my healing and NOT my DPS. In case you forgot:Defilers are a <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2daily.com/eq2wiki/Classes" target="_blank">class</a> under the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2daily.com/wiki/index.php?title=Priest&action=edit" target="_blank">priest</a> archetype. Shaman (<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2daily.com/eq2wiki/Mystic" target="_blank">mystics</a> and defilers) heal in an unusal sense; they lean more toward prevention of damage as opposed to restoring health. You are nothing more than a "Defiler wanna be dps" on kithcor server. As such you don't know jack about mage high end DPS. Even if you have a mage (can't be sure as you have access to your alts blocked on eqplayers) it is obvious you are clueless about cloth DPS issues, go be a jerk elsewhere. Enough melee keep this up and mages just may decide to start "crying for a nerf" as opposed to asking for balance. Ya, I know it doesn't do any good but it is very annoying to have other classes screaming to have your main nerfed or dismissing real issues they have little understanding of.</blockquote>lol chill, I'm just bustin your balls. About 90% of the population of mages aren't even effected by the dps problem. Yes I know what's going on. It has to do with the devs upping the resists on endgame raid mobs. (second time they "tried" to fix the scout/mage hit % rates)In KoS my main was a Wizzy but the resists were insanely jacked up so I changed mains. Yes, it affects me (as a defiler) as well. Not dps wise but as far as my debuffs go. They're all master, I took the AAs to make them less resistable and guess what?! On the pull, resist, resist, resist, resist untill the scouts slap some debuffs on the mob.I agree that things are jacked up. Scouts need next to no buffs to put out optimal dps where as a sorc needs all the planets to be in perfect alignment to do the same amount of dps. In addition to that scouts have chain and mages have cloth. [Removed for Content]?! Scouts will argue "well, we need to be next to the mob to do dps. mages can range it so we need to have better armor." F that. Mages trade off for lower HP and Armor Class for more dps.... but not in this game.Anyways, I understand more than you think. The Defiler-DPS thing was a joke, so you might want to turn around, pull the stick out of your [Removed for Content] and lighten the [Removed for Content] up. Not like this game is real life...

thajo

06-13-2008, 08:09 PM

Obviously root is better. You can solo the first 2 names in VoES with a root! Numbing cold and root is all you should ever need =O. I think the abilities we have are adequate. Were pretty much a pure dps class, most people I don't think would expect a wizard to be very effective with group oriented buffs. Of course our ice lash proc is something alone that gets us priority spots in mage groups.ps. It's a good thing you didn't joke about fury dps. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

liveja

07-10-2008, 12:19 PM

<cite>Skwor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Now show me where a wizard can can do even small percentage of what poisons enable ALL scouts to do? .</blockquote>Just to be technical, here: Bards are part of "all scouts." However, unless they go down the Agility AA line, they are not allowed to use poisons at all.

Skwor

07-11-2008, 12:54 PM

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skwor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Now show me where a wizard can can do even small percentage of what poisons enable ALL scouts to do? .</blockquote>Just to be technical, here: Bards are part of "all scouts." However, unless they go down the Agility AA line, they are not allowed to use poisons at all.</blockquote>Technical or not you are right. I still think my point about scouts in general having an advantage over pure cloth DPS in utility because of poisons is valid. Yes a bard less so, but bards already have so much utility that they hardly need poisons to make them raid desirable.

Yourgoddess

07-15-2008, 06:07 PM

My main is a wizzy. In Eq 1 wizzies don't need other class's to do good dps So why should they in eq2? this makes it a lot harder for us to get groups in eq2.So assains good for all groups wizzy only good for 1 or 2 make up's this puts us in a spot and will make us excluded from a lot of groups. Soe needs to make wizzy dps dependent on them selfs and not other class'sPlease do the same for other dps class's make them dependent on other class's to do dps.

DerFunkBlaster

07-16-2008, 09:41 AM

I just wanted to add that I defiantely think there is some issues post-GU43. However, I don't know if nerfing wis/resist values is the best solution. The developers intended to give this check to mages in order to balance it with their melee counterpart dps. I honestly believe that the problem can be taken to the core of each mage class. They need to revisit everyone and tweak individual classes to balance this one. Or, they need to nerf the melee hit rates. If they set resist values to pre-gu43 we will just sit at 100% hit rates, which really shouldn't be happening and should have never happened. Basically, SOE didn't calculate how the resist chagnes would effect mages in the long run. It needs to be fixed at the core design of the mage dps.Edit:I just wanted to add that I was monitoring our spell double attacks the other day in VP. For the first wing I had TC and the other wizard didn't. He was able to return aroudn 280 DPS from double spell attacks while I was able to return 230. I thought that was interesting.

Mr. Dawki

07-18-2008, 12:19 PM

Disclamer- I am not a caster, I do not have a caster alt, I am an assassin.The wizzard in my guild ( a guild that has cleared VP many a time ) is consistantly second on the parse, right under me. While some may say "sure second on the parse is fine" what is not fine is that he may be second, he is still 2-3k dps under me. After speaking with him about how wizzard DPS works, spell order, whatnot, the conclusion I came up with is that caster temp buffs in genearal do not hold a candle to scout temp buffs. For example I as an assassin have 4 temp buffs, 1 melee haste buff 1 min dur 3 min reus,2 DPS mod 30 sec dur 3 min reus, 3 30 sec 30%recast to anything under a 1 min reus with added 30% dmg 3 min rues,4 13 sec 50% to all trigger chances 3 min reusNow generaly I couple 1&2 or 3&4 together and with a normal paced raid there is never a fight that I do not have 2 temp buffs going at a time. Buff 1 and 2 are prety standard nothing too special about them, buff 3 and 4 add significantly more.From my understanding, and I can be wrong, wizards get velium gift, and thats about it in terms of a long duration temp buff. I would say an easy way to boost wizzard or caster DPS in general is to add more temp buffs to the caster classes. I can say with near 100% accuracy that whenever I go into a fight with no temp buffs the wizzard will beat me, unless he dies or screws up in some fashion. I dont think the assassin mythical is OP, I think it is fine the way it is as it caters to the class it was ment for. I dont think any of the other mythicals, save the guard and a few healers truly cater to their classes. A simple change to the wizzy mythical would be to change the spell dbl attack from a proc to a clicky with say a 30-60 sec reuse and then make it proc spell or reuse hasteAgain I don't play a caster I am just trying to bring a bit more insight to those screaming nerf assassins. Hopefully you will see that it is mearly 1 thing that brings our dps over yours (the wizzards) and rather than crying for nerfs, because no on likes a nerf. Create up some insightfull temp buffs that would help your class in the long run.my 2c

Skwor

07-19-2008, 09:49 AM

<cite>Mr. Dawkins wrote:</cite><blockquote>Disclamer- I am not a caster, I do not have a caster alt, I am an assassin.The wizzard in my guild ( a guild that has cleared VP many a time ) is consistantly second on the parse, right under me. While some may say "sure second on the parse is fine" what is not fine is that he may be second, he is still 2-3k dps under me. After speaking with him about how wizzard DPS works, spell order, whatnot, the conclusion I came up with is that caster temp buffs in genearal do not hold a candle to scout temp buffs. For example I as an assassin have 4 temp buffs, 1 melee haste buff 1 min dur 3 min reus,2 DPS mod 30 sec dur 3 min reus, 3 30 sec 30%recast to anything under a 1 min reus with added 30% dmg 3 min rues,4 13 sec 50% to all trigger chances 3 min reusNow generaly I couple 1&2 or 3&4 together and with a normal paced raid there is never a fight that I do not have 2 temp buffs going at a time. Buff 1 and 2 are prety standard nothing too special about them, buff 3 and 4 add significantly more.From my understanding, and I can be wrong, wizards get velium gift, and thats about it in terms of a long duration temp buff. I would say an easy way to boost wizzard or caster DPS in general is to add more temp buffs to the caster classes. I can say with near 100% accuracy that whenever I go into a fight with no temp buffs the wizzard will beat me, unless he dies or screws up in some fashion. I dont think the assassin mythical is OP, I think it is fine the way it is as it caters to the class it was ment for. I dont think any of the other mythicals, save the guard and a few healers truly cater to their classes. A simple change to the wizzy mythical would be to change the spell dbl attack from a proc to a clicky with say a 30-60 sec reuse and then make it proc spell or reuse hasteAgain I don't play a caster I am just trying to bring a bit more insight to those screaming nerf assassins. Hopefully you will see that it is mearly 1 thing that brings our dps over yours (the wizzards) and rather than crying for nerfs, because no on likes a nerf. Create up some insightfull temp buffs that would help your class in the long run.my 2c</blockquote>The highlighterd part in red sums it up completly. Being 2k behind the top parser is NOT competitive. Cloth is saying it, Melee is saying it and appearantly SOE is ignoring it. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Soluss2

07-19-2008, 01:45 PM

<cite>Skwor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mr. Dawkins wrote:</cite><blockquote>Disclamer- I am not a caster, I do not have a caster alt, I am an assassin.The wizzard in my guild ( a guild that has cleared VP many a time ) is consistantly second on the parse, right under me. While some may say "sure second on the parse is fine" what is not fine is that he may be second, he is still 2-3k dps under me. After speaking with him about how wizzard DPS works, spell order, whatnot, the conclusion I came up with is that caster temp buffs in genearal do not hold a candle to scout temp buffs. For example I as an assassin have 4 temp buffs, 1 melee haste buff 1 min dur 3 min reus,2 DPS mod 30 sec dur 3 min reus, 3 30 sec 30%recast to anything under a 1 min reus with added 30% dmg 3 min rues,4 13 sec 50% to all trigger chances 3 min reusNow generaly I couple 1&2 or 3&4 together and with a normal paced raid there is never a fight that I do not have 2 temp buffs going at a time. Buff 1 and 2 are prety standard nothing too special about them, buff 3 and 4 add significantly more.From my understanding, and I can be wrong, wizards get velium gift, and thats about it in terms of a long duration temp buff. I would say an easy way to boost wizzard or caster DPS in general is to add more temp buffs to the caster classes. I can say with near 100% accuracy that whenever I go into a fight with no temp buffs the wizzard will beat me, unless he dies or screws up in some fashion. I dont think the assassin mythical is OP, I think it is fine the way it is as it caters to the class it was ment for. I dont think any of the other mythicals, save the guard and a few healers truly cater to their classes. A simple change to the wizzy mythical would be to change the spell dbl attack from a proc to a clicky with say a 30-60 sec reuse and then make it proc spell or reuse hasteAgain I don't play a caster I am just trying to bring a bit more insight to those screaming nerf assassins. Hopefully you will see that it is mearly 1 thing that brings our dps over yours (the wizzards) and rather than crying for nerfs, because no on likes a nerf. Create up some insightfull temp buffs that would help your class in the long run.my 2c</blockquote>The highlighterd part in red sums it up completly. Being 2k behind the top parser is NOT competitive. Cloth is saying it, Melee is saying it and appearantly SOE is ignoring it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>Its about to get worse...Brigands are getting the nerf bat.

Lady Uaelr

10-15-2008, 09:08 PM

<cite>Soluss2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skwor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mr. Dawkins wrote:</cite><blockquote>Disclamer- I am not a caster, I do not have a caster alt, I am an assassin.The wizzard in my guild ( a guild that has cleared VP many a time ) is consistantly second on the parse, right under me. While some may say "sure second on the parse is fine" what is not fine is that he may be second, he is still 2-3k dps under me. After speaking with him about how wizzard DPS works, spell order, whatnot, the conclusion I came up with is that caster temp buffs in genearal do not hold a candle to scout temp buffs. For example I as an assassin have 4 temp buffs, 1 melee haste buff 1 min dur 3 min reus,2 DPS mod 30 sec dur 3 min reus, 3 30 sec 30%recast to anything under a 1 min reus with added 30% dmg 3 min rues,4 13 sec 50% to all trigger chances 3 min reusNow generaly I couple 1&2 or 3&4 together and with a normal paced raid there is never a fight that I do not have 2 temp buffs going at a time. Buff 1 and 2 are prety standard nothing too special about them, buff 3 and 4 add significantly more.From my understanding, and I can be wrong, wizards get velium gift, and thats about it in terms of a long duration temp buff. I would say an easy way to boost wizzard or caster DPS in general is to add more temp buffs to the caster classes. I can say with near 100% accuracy that whenever I go into a fight with no temp buffs the wizzard will beat me, unless he dies or screws up in some fashion. I dont think the assassin mythical is OP, I think it is fine the way it is as it caters to the class it was ment for. I dont think any of the other mythicals, save the guard and a few healers truly cater to their classes. A simple change to the wizzy mythical would be to change the spell dbl attack from a proc to a clicky with say a 30-60 sec reuse and then make it proc spell or reuse hasteAgain I don't play a caster I am just trying to bring a bit more insight to those screaming nerf assassins. Hopefully you will see that it is mearly 1 thing that brings our dps over yours (the wizzards) and rather than crying for nerfs, because no on likes a nerf. Create up some insightfull temp buffs that would help your class in the long run.my 2c</blockquote>The highlighterd part in red sums it up completly. Being 2k behind the top parser is NOT competitive. Cloth is saying it, Melee is saying it and appearantly SOE is ignoring it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>Its about to get worse...Brigands are getting the nerf bat.</blockquote>Assassin's will always top the parse and it is tough when you think you are well geared and have everything mastered to still be 2k-4k below the assassin.Assassin without full fabled, with mythical can do 13k-14kdps - I have only managed 9k-10k with a manaburn spec and that is once in a blue moon.So my suggestion is instead of ranting everyone on the wizard forums should ask designers "in a non-flaming - constructive way" to help our dps out and that we want to be able to parse at least closer to how the scouts parse. I will put up a thread and if everyone is mature and provide good ideas the designers will look at it even though they may not respond.

brhead

10-25-2008, 10:44 AM

When I look at my zone wide I leave everything in names and all. I think you'd be suprised by how much we do win zone wides by. Our one advantage is we dont need positioning to cast outside of how far we stand from the mob. There are fights when you can only go ranged, that hurts the assin. Fights where you can't truely position mob due to roots, that hurts the rangers. Trash mobs are the salad, Named mobs are the steak and I've never had a salad fill me up.

Twinbladed

10-25-2008, 08:59 PM

The guy who threw the wizard max dps guide above you knows what he is talkin about he can hit 14k easily and he uses slightly not hard to get items, yes he is capped int,mastered 20 point below capped disruption, and has a 1k dmg mod, but he still rely's on base damage gear. Base damage is more important than any damage. if you are spect for wis agi and 8 into crit plus all the extra base damage gear then your parce will go up extremely

WSDragon

11-02-2008, 08:06 PM

I see alot of people thowing around false information not sure if it's other classes or alts trying to pipe up however wizards dps has trailed off in the end game over all. Point in fact run a hate run with equil buffs on caster group and then a melee group at the end of the run do a zone wide. We tend to pull fast and hard clearing in about an hour. Your assassins will always be on top for this run unless they suck aass.Second perform the above again in VP / Trak and you will come up with slightly better results however the casters will always be below the melee (assassins) over all. Start of the zone mobs resist a lot less so you will spike here, close to end you will tank compared to the melee due to mob resistability. It's not uncommon to see assassins parsing 10-14K consistantly on trash fights in our guild.With all that I still ussaly perform close to the top of the parse without any other caster coming close however in the last month or so I have noticed a gap starting to appear for scouts and casters where casters are being left behind consistantly and sometimes even brutally in DPS. I thought having almost full VP + hate gear would help myself but honestly its a struggle to stay close to the assassins and they only need a dirge to blow away people the majority of the time.Calculations are simple for this game to perform (excel is your friend) to find your optimal casting cycles so thats not a problem and if you have a Brig just make sure they call out in raid using a constant time into a fight so you can time the big hits without worrying to much. I don't do a MB spec so my damage is a very smooth pattern though I do have tons of power regen items over the expansions I may have to try mixing up AA sets again. I just hope the expansion puts wizards and assassins on equal footing where they should be, these classes should be neck n neck on the race...

valious

11-04-2008, 12:38 PM

<cite>WSDragon wrote:</cite><blockquote> I just hope the expansion puts wizards and assassins on equal footing where they should be, these classes should be neck n neck on the race...</blockquote>don't forget rangers 8D

simpwrx02

11-09-2008, 03:58 AM

<cite>brhead wrote:</cite><blockquote>When I look at my zone wide I leave everything in names and all. I think you'd be suprised by how much we do win zone wides by. Our one advantage is we dont need positioning to cast outside of how far we stand from the mob. There are fights when you can only go ranged, that hurts the assin. Fights where you can't truely position mob due to roots, that hurts the rangers. Trash mobs are the salad, Named mobs are the steak and I've never had a salad fill me up.</blockquote>Then your scouts suck if you completely dominate then on the parse.

bunnykiller69

12-14-2008, 11:53 AM

#1 Learn to play your class. #2 Yes I have noticed with the stupid silly gear the idiots at soe have been handing out in each expansion the top days of dps are no longer gone but you better be on your toes and twinked out in your l33t gear or your screwed as wizard in the parse. #3 Wizards have two duties Damage and porter, that being said they should parse at the top every time and can with a lot of work it seems more work than an assassin or ranger has to do these days. I don’t agree that the dps class wizard should have to work harder than other classes that have many other utilities roles and buffs. #4 Ray of what soe ? Really? How stupid are you ? Just remake the spell into something useful. Wizards are not co-op dps they are single target dps that spell makes no sense for a wizard it might make some sense for warlock who is aoe dps. It should have been increases in dps for the wizard not a co-op spell, how many co-op direct damage spells dose a wizard have? None before that idiot mistake exactly… Soe gets the (censored word) award on that one. #5 This really is pointless you know all they care about is [Removed for Content] their dumb (censored word) card game and trying to sell you vet reward items in game to make more money. Soe still hasn’t figured out that after 5 years eq2 has been in serious need of an upgrade graphics wise to get the attention of new players not (censored word) on pos dells who already play this game. The wow syndrome works when your player base is stupid and want to grind on simple paths of advancement, You should create a premium graphics interface for those of us who want eq2 to look and run like a current game of today and those on dells can run the classic one, I’d pay 40 bucks for that expansion happily right now. Look at Aoc there is a market for decent graphic games this game is getting that old and busted feel and thus why new player subs are at an all time low. Be under no delusion soe this game is not cutting edge by any stretch of the imagination any more 5 years ago it was but you fell behind the curve. <span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #33cccc; font-family: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> #6 over all this is the last few swirls down the bowl for eq2 its player base has dropped so much in the past year they should really start considering server merges soon, and updating the graphics and not that dumb card game. It urks the crap out of me I have to download the patches for that crap I wont ever play it and i am sure many others like me agree they didn’t want a card game they wanted eq2 upgraded to be on par with other games of today or eq3 again soe seems to be on the roll for stupid mistakes.

thajo

12-14-2008, 02:40 PM

<cite>bunnykiller69 wrote:</cite><blockquote> #4 Ray of what soe ? Really? How stupid are you ? Just remake the spell into something useful. Wizards are not co-op dps they are single target dps that spell makes no sense for a wizard it might make some sense for warlock who is aoe dps. It should have been increases in dps for the wizard not a co-op spell, how many co-op direct damage spells dose a wizard have? None before that idiot mistake exactly… Soe gets the (censored word) award on that one. </blockquote>Theres no spell in the game that works like Rays, so nobody has any of its type. And why would it make sense to give a warlock a DD nuke? Well, they did at the end of their TSO aa line, so maybe your onto something ;pAnd also, who cares about graphics. Quake 3 came out in 1999 and i LOVED the game to death until 2008. Graphics mean nada, gameplay is everything.