Thanks for the NERF SOE...

[bleap]

I log in and start killing with my necro, try to cast BIND SIGHT on a mob so I can pet pull the one behind it..and low and behold I get a message NO ELIGIBLE TARGET...go to read the description of the spell effect and now it only works on GROUP MEMBERS!   so it's essentially USELESS.....Mages appreciate the NERF.....thanks.

[Korpo]

It was always intended to only work on group members, you could just get around that by starting on a group member and then clicking on a mob before it finished casting.Fixing a bug is not the same as a nerf.

[bleap]

<cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote>It was always intended to only work on group members, you could just get around that by starting on a group member and then clicking on a mob before it finished casting.Fixing a bug is not the same as a nerf.</blockquote>Wrong, but thanks for playing, I have a level 80 conj and a level 80 necro. I have been using that spell on MoBs SOLO since level 5 on both....that would be something over 3 years ago? But thanks for playing.....it's a nerf....I love how after the game has been out for all these years they decide that a level 5 spell is over powered.....Typical SOE can't leave well enough alone...

[skinandbones]

<p>Umm bind sight is not meant to be casted on mobs.  Its the same spell as in EQ1 only able to be casted on group members.  its not a nerf its a fix.</p>

[bleap]

<cite>Joppa@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Umm bind sight is not meant to be casted on mobs.  Its the same spell as in EQ1 only able to be casted on group members.  its not a nerf its a fix.</p></blockquote>Bind Sight has always been able to be cast on MoBs...Unless it has been broken since I got the spell 75 levels ago, about 3 years.....So either this is a nerf or the lazy devs are just now getting around to repair it....sure looks like a nerf to me..And I played a shaman in EQ1 for 65 level and 5 years. Unless they nerfed it there after I left, we use to use it to pull and I cast it on MoBs there too.....

[bleap]

Lets look at this logically...What point would there be for a mage class to look through the eyes  of a group member? We can already invis so we could WALK to where ever a scout was....If we need to target something to pet pull, all we have to do is assist whomever has the MoB targeted....there is no reason for this spell except to look through the eyes of a MoB to see beyond it....I use to be able to cast Bind Sight on a mob, target another further away, wait seven seconds, cast it again then look through it's eyes...Theoretically I could have looked all the way across teh zone if I were patient enough....But now you can't look through a MoBs eyes and you cannot chain cast it...It's a useless spell now....a total nerf..

[Korpo]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote>It was always intended to only work on group members, you could just get around that by starting on a group member and then clicking on a mob before it finished casting.Fixing a bug is not the same as a nerf.</blockquote>Wrong, but thanks for playing, I have a level 80 conj and a level 80 necro. I have been using that spell on MoBs SOLO since level 5 on both....that would be something over 3 years ago? But thanks for playing.....it's a nerf....I love how after the game has been out for all these years they decide that a level 5 spell is over powered.....Typical SOE can't leave well enough alone...</blockquote>It has been possible to use it on pets/familiars/mobs/anything since it went in, as the spell was bugged. The spell is no longer bugged.

[Lasai]

<p>Oh Boo, you lost some unintended cheese.</p><p>Were it up to me, pets would be non aggro only in follow mode, and only because of pathing.  Pet pulling in this game is the ultimate cheese, bypassing mobs that should be KOS to them because of non aggro status.  Pets on attack should carry the same aggro rules as thier owners do, period.</p><p>Be thankful you still have that bit of nonsense.</p>

[Ildarus]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lets look at this logically...What point would there be for a mage class to look through the eyes  of a group member? We can already invis so we could WALK to where ever a scout was....If we need to target something to pet pull, all we have to do is assist whomever has the MoB targeted....there is no reason for this spell except to look through the eyes of a MoB to see beyond it....I use to be able to cast Bind Sight on a mob, target another further away, wait seven seconds, cast it again then look through it's eyes...Theoretically I could have looked all the way across teh zone if I were patient enough....But now you can't look through a MoBs eyes and you cannot chain cast it...It's a useless spell now....a total nerf..</blockquote><p>Exactly, which is why I don't know anyone that actually used it. You are the first person I ever heard of that used bind sight. Everyone I know removed it from their hot bar to make room for other useful spells. So I really don't think it is a nerf when most poeple seen it for what it was always intended, for group only, so no one used it. I don't ever recall any other mages I have grouped with saying, "wait, I will bind sight to the mob up ahead to see what is over the hill". It has always been a useless spell.</p><p> Oh, and by the way, yes there is still currently, over 4 years later, bugs that are getting fixed from game launch. Little things like this that really weren't game breaking. Things do not move very fast. I remember the bank changes being asked for two years ago when they made it so one could mail between factions. They just now finally got around to making the change.</p>

[Korpo]

<cite>Sarron@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Exactly, which is why I don't know anyone that actually used it. You are the first person I ever heard of that used bind sight.</p></blockquote>I used to use it when farming the Nest in KOS, you could put it on your buddy or pet or whatever, cast, then quickly target one of the mobs in the rooms. Instant scouting for the named on the top floor, no risk of agro.

[Rijacki]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lets look at this logically...What point would there be for a mage class to look through the eyes  of a group member? We can already invis so we could WALK to where ever a scout was....If we need to target something to pet pull, all we have to do is assist whomever has the MoB targeted....there is no reason for this spell except to look through the eyes of a MoB to see beyond it....I use to be able to cast Bind Sight on a mob, target another further away, wait seven seconds, cast it again then look through it's eyes...Theoretically I could have looked all the way across teh zone if I were patient enough....But now you can't look through a MoBs eyes and you cannot chain cast it...It's a useless spell now....a total nerf..</blockquote>So, in other words you were using it to by-pass line of sight restrictions in order to pull things, without agro, far away from where you actually were, by-passing mobs and other issues intentionally put in the way to make reaching that particular mob a challenge?It's not often I'll use the e-word, but it really does sound like your complaining about them removing an exploit.

[Wingrider01]

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Oh Boo, you lost some unintended cheese.</p><p>Were it up to me, pets would be non aggro only in follow mode, and only because of pathing.  Pet pulling in this game is the ultimate cheese, bypassing mobs that should be KOS to them because of non aggro status.  Pets on attack should carry the same aggro rules as thier owners do, period.</p><p>Be thankful you still have that bit of nonsense.</p></blockquote>thankfully it is not up to you, although if it did happen would love to see you in the group that is getting wiped out deep in Sebilis because your request for pets was implemented and the pet wandered off due to bad pathing, then pulled the entire left side of the zone on top of you. Woud be interesting to see your comments then..

[Illmarr]

I imagine the comments would be the same from anyone that played EQ1 and dealt with that mechanic. Nothing new at all, so you don't pet pull in areas with bad pathing. It's not like it didn't happen to any of us before /shrug

[Oh]

<cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Oh Boo, you lost some unintended cheese.</p><p>Were it up to me, pets would be non aggro only in follow mode, and only because of pathing.  Pet pulling in this game is the ultimate cheese, bypassing mobs that should be KOS to them because of non aggro status.  <b>Pets on attack should carry the same aggro rules as thier owners do, period</b>.</p><p>Be thankful you still have that bit of nonsense.</p></blockquote>thankfully it is not up to you, although if it did happen would love to see you in the group that is getting wiped out deep in Sebilis because your request for pets was implemented and the pet wandered off due to bad pathing, then pulled the entire left side of the zone on top of you. Woud be interesting to see your comments then..</blockquote>Considering you can't read very well either I highlighted the KEY point PETS ON ATTACK that means if they were passive at your side you wouldn't have an agro issue. Actually I personally would kick you from the group if you couldn't control your pet that badly. IT IS THE JOB OF THE CONJ/NEC to keep track of the pet at all times. I was a mage in eq1 that ment OMG I had to kill my pet alot of times due to bad pathing. Pet pulling is a mechanic in this game, can't say I agree with it, but if it was removed I surely wouldn't cry about it, I'd probably call it a bug fix.

[Pimmy]

<p>Well in a sense it is a nerf. It's been working on mobs for so long I'd call it a feature which got nerfed. You know SOE never playtested spells and abilities, thats why these things happen.</p>

[Lasai]

<cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Oh Boo, you lost some unintended cheese.</p><p>Were it up to me, pets would be non aggro only in follow mode, and only because of pathing.  Pet pulling in this game is the ultimate cheese, bypassing mobs that should be KOS to them because of non aggro status.  Pets on attack should carry the same aggro rules as thier owners do, period.</p><p>Be thankful you still have that bit of nonsense.</p></blockquote>thankfully it is not up to you, although if it did happen would love to see you in the group that is getting wiped out deep in Sebilis because your request for pets was implemented and the pet wandered off due to bad pathing, then pulled the entire left side of the zone on top of you. Woud be interesting to see your comments then..</blockquote><p>FYI I played a Creature Handler in Pre NGE SWG for several years, and made Rank 12 PvP in the old Wow system with a Hunter.  In both those games the pets had the same aggro rules as the player, full time.  Pet pulling was body pulling with the pet, took some timing on the callback.  It the old "learn to play" thing, we dealt with pathing issues all the time.  </p><p>First time I saw pet pulling in this game I was appalled.  Sending a pet through piles of aggro mobs with no consequenses is fisher price gaming and absolutely makes no sense.  That is the kind of crap that should wipe groups, and does in games with aggro rules that make sense.</p><p>Pet classes in this game are easy mode.  Only classes that can level themselves afk with no second party macros.  LOL.</p>

[Korpo]

<cite>Pimmy@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well in a sense it is a nerf. It's been working on mobs for so long I'd call it a feature which got nerfed. You know SOE never playtested spells and abilities, thats why these things happen.</p></blockquote>The length of time a bug was in place has no bearing on whether it was a bug or not. Bugs do not become "features" if they aren't fixed in a timely manner.

[Pimmy]

<cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote>The length of time a bug was in place has no bearing on whether it was a bug or not. Bugs do not become "features" if they aren't fixed in a timely manner.</blockquote><p>Thats a load of bull. It's how it has worked for three years. It's a nerf then. There is no reason why it shouldn't work like it used to. At least some use to mages and it isn't game breaking as some other "features" that are not bugs are.</p>

[Snowdonia]

There are a lot of bugs in this game that have been here since day one, are those also "features"? No, I think it would be insulting for them to be classified as such don't you think? And when they get fixed, people will rejoice that something so long standing was finally put right. This is no different except in the fact that people LIKED this bug because it worked in their favor. But a bug is still a bug whether it's one that works for you or not.

[dawy]

Since Bruce came back as producer a lot of things that are bugs are getting fixed i welcome it to be honest,the fact that its been broken for as long as i've played the game makes no odds to me

[Zwildstar]

<cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Oh Boo, you lost some unintended cheese.</p><p>Were it up to me, pets would be non aggro only in follow mode, and only because of pathing.  Pet pulling in this game is the ultimate cheese, bypassing mobs that should be KOS to them because of non aggro status.  Pets on attack should carry the same aggro rules as thier owners do, period.</p><p>Be thankful you still have that bit of nonsense.</p></blockquote>thankfully it is not up to you, although if it did happen would love to see you in the group that is getting wiped out deep in Sebilis because your request for pets was implemented and the pet wandered off due to bad pathing, then pulled the entire left side of the zone on top of you. Woud be interesting to see your comments then..</blockquote><p>@Lasai: Yes, I agree that non-aggro pets is plain silly... but...</p><p>@Wingrider01: ... this is the exact reason why SOE has pets on non-aggro status.  In EQ1, pets were not allowed on raids at all except for clear cut areas where there was no where for the pet to wander off to and then it was still iffy since the "pet dance" could still make the pet/mob wander outside the contained area.</p>

[Korpo]

<cite>Pimmy@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote>The length of time a bug was in place has no bearing on whether it was a bug or not. Bugs do not become "features" if they aren't fixed in a timely manner.</blockquote><p>Thats a load of bull. It's how it has worked for three years. It's a nerf then. There is no reason why it shouldn't work like it used to. At least some use to mages and it isn't game breaking as some other "features" that are not bugs are.</p></blockquote>It was bugged for three years. It is no longer bugged. That you (or whoever) liked to take advantage of the bug has no bearing on whether it is a nerf or not.People have been falling through the world since launch, would fixing that be a nerf?Pet pathing has been garbage since launch, would fixing that be a nerf?People have been getting bugged (or, not getting) rez windows since launch, would fixing that be a nerf?

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Pimmy@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Thats a load of bull. It's how it has worked for three years. It's a nerf then. There is no reason why it shouldn't work like it used to. At least some use to mages and it isn't game breaking as some other "features" that are not bugs are.</p></blockquote>*chuckles*You remind me of a friend of mine. The bank was accidentally direct depositing somebody else's social security check in to her account. This went on for about 3 years. So, she finally withdrew the money and went and bought herself a new car. She's still paying that money back to this day when they finally found the error.In other games, taking advantage of a known issue is considered an exploit and is a bannable offense. Count your lucky stars that SOE doesn't have a zero tolerance policy like other games.

[seamus]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pimmy@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Thats a load of bull. It's how it has worked for three years. It's a nerf then. There is no reason why it shouldn't work like it used to. At least some use to mages and it isn't game breaking as some other "features" that are not bugs are.</p></blockquote>*chuckles*You remind me of a friend of mine. The bank was accidentally direct depositing somebody else's social security check in to her account. This went on for about 3 years. So, she finally withdrew the money and went and bought herself a new car. She's still paying that money back to this day when they finally found the error.In other games, taking advantage of a known issue is considered an exploit and is a bannable offense. Count your lucky stars that SOE doesn't have a zero tolerance policy like other games.</blockquote><p>Yeah, the stance of many games is to repro it, bug it and never use it again. Some actually give out in-game rewards for catching good exploits/bugs.</p><p>BTW how much will this 'nerf' actually affect you? Necro's are already one of the best solo classes in the game and as already stated here, its completely useless in groups. Does it really matter?</p>

[Pelda]

LOL this thread makes me chuckle.

[Jovie]

<p>The eq1 version of this spell "stuns" the caster and they do in fact look out of the eyes of the mob. I remember it on my enchanter there.</p><p>Regardless, pretty much any of the spells or abilities with that little orange eye thing go into the never cast pile in my book. All the vision spells in eq2 are worthless. Utter junk.</p>

[Jai1]

<p>I'm not sure of the multitude of versions of bind sight in EQ1 but my chanter could put this on people, mobs and pats.  I could still move around with it on I believe.  Then again, I haven't played in 4ish years.</p>

[Svann]

<cite>Joppa@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Umm bind sight is not meant to be casted on mobs.  Its the same spell as in EQ1 only able to be casted on group members.  its not a nerf its a fix.</p></blockquote>Huh?  I remember using bind sight on mobs to see if trakanon was up.

[skinandbones]

<cite>Svann wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Joppa@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Umm bind sight is not meant to be casted on mobs.  Its the same spell as in EQ1 only able to be casted on group members.  its not a nerf its a fix.</p></blockquote>Huh?  I remember using bind sight on mobs to see if trakanon was up.</blockquote>I checked my chanter my necro my shaman ( all 80) last night.  This spell does not hold on mobs any more.  This was change several years ago.

[SisterTheresa]

<p>Hm, reminds me of the Smoke Bomb ability in CoH.</p><p>People loved it, made whole ways to attack with it ... and 6 months (I think) later, the devs CHANGED IT.  Saying that it didn't works as intended and wasn't supposed to.</p><p>Now ... would that be seen as a nerf (since it has been in the game for so long?) or a fix (of something that shouldn't have been there but left it for so long)</p><p>Seems the case here as well.</p>

[Illmarr]

<cite>Katryina@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hm, reminds me of the Smoke Bomb ability in CoH.</p><p>People loved it, made whole ways to attack with it ... and 6 months (I think) later, the devs CHANGED IT.  Saying that it didn't works as intended and wasn't supposed to.</p><p>Now ... would that be seen as a nerf (since it has been in the game for so long?) or a fix (of something that shouldn't have been there but left it for so long)</p><p>Seems the case here as well.</p></blockquote>It would be seen as both, depending on the individual. Just as this nerf/fix is.