Everquest reborn

[Jovie]

<p>At this point in time, it is time for a new incantation of what is fun to be born. What i personally see is the combination of the best of eq1 and eq2 combined.</p><p><u>Overview</u></p><p>-A timeline in the middle of the great war on Norrath. Rallos's troops creating havoc.</p><p>-Next gen graphical engine that uses dx10, duel/quad core, SLI technology.</p><p>-A time of chaos where the people of Norrath break from the normal traditions and begin to flex muscle and brain not normally seen (any race any class)</p><p>-A revamped Norrath using new age graphical imagry without taking away the core feel and look of the world. (reworked art but without changing the physical layout like they did in eq1's revamps)</p><p><u>Pros from eq1 being brought in/left in</u></p><p>-Large, very large game world. Unlike eq2, not nearly as linear, leaving the choice to the travelling soul.</p><p>-A mob is a mob, unless it is a named. All mobs are just that, mobs. No more solo/heroic. The difficulty is in how you approach each fight, considering the surrounding population and mobs that flee.</p><p>-Experiance modifiers that greatly enhance and promote group play.</p><p>-The grand daddy of AA systems.</p><p>-Much larger assortment of dungeons with a higher chance of survivability for those who aren't in large groups.</p><p>-The better map system.</p><p><u>Pros from eq2 being brought in/left in</u></p><p>-A food and drink system that actually mean something</p><p>-Tradeskilling that is both interactive and attractive</p><p>-Any race/any class, this time without the good vs evil restrictions from certain classes. (an evil dark elf could be a templar or illusionist, etc)</p><p>-Heroic opportunities, modified to be a bit more usefull.</p><p>-Guild bank/guild control functionality.</p><p>-Best player housing under the electronic sun.</p><p>-EQ2 quest journal system.</p><p>-Collection quests and exploration exp. </p><p>Imagine the original world of Norrath with a revamped eq2 graphical engine behind it and a new story line to follow!! Yes i know that other producers have said that they feel eq2 was a mistake to be called that, but it is a genuine fact that the Everquest NAME is widely known and thought of in a certain reverence. People would certainly enjoy it.</p><p>There are positives and negatives about both games, but most would agree that it would be nice to improve upon the negatives and create a more fun environment for people to play.</p><p>Eq2 is just too dang small. Too compartmented in solo/heroic/epic areas to offer much flow and transition. Not enough places to go and explore for any length of time.</p><p>Eq1 is just too dang old. Graphics that are outdated and ugly. A sound system that is sorely lacking. </p><p><u>Comparing game to game</u></p><p>-Soloing. Eq1 too hard, Eq2 too easy. A middle ground could be found.</p><p>-Grouping. Eq1 mostly requires cookie cutter groups, Eq2 is more multi healer orientated. This is a tough one to balance, but with thought it can be done.</p><p>-Raiding. Eq2 offers large raids and a multitude of targets, Eq2 raids are much smaller and the path for raiding very very linear.I am not raid savy, but i think if polled people would prefer the eq1 raid engine over the eq2 one.</p><p>-Land mass. Eq1 land mass is huge. Comparing initial release, the diverse starting locations, environment types and square footage, eq1 has this catagory hands down. Even as the game expanded, eq1 continually is much larger and diverse than eq2.</p><p>-Sound system. The eq1 sound system is horrid, eq2's is nice (considering music, environment, speech).</p><p>-How one looks in the world. In my opinion, eq1 is better, as you feel smaller in comparison to the world. Eq2 the characters font or size is too big, helping to make the world that much smaller.</p><p>In today's mmo world, it seems that people have gone from putting up with endless timesinks to wanting to get more done in less time. This is not too much to ask for. Time is precious and should not be spent camping the raster for 12 hours at a time <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The Everquest lore system is by and large far superiour to that of most other mmo's out there. In defence of legions of long standing fans, they deserve the Everquest name to be continued and bettered upon. The development team at soe should learn from past mistakes and strive to bring a product that they can be proud of and their playing public loves to play.</p><p>In all honesty, they should convein a round table and explore what is best and what is worst from each game, even considering other soe station pass programs, and bring us a product that is deserved of the everquest name.</p><p>This post has nothing to do with AoC, WoW or any other mmo. It is about the Everquest brand itself.</p><p>Granted, this is all my personal opinion, but i feel that eq2 is gradually slipping into obscurity out of lack of interest and eq1 is far past its prime.</p><p>I would be interested in seeing what others would bring in and leave out of an Everquest 3 game. </p><p>Please leave the negativity at the door.</p>

[LordPazuzu]

<p>I'd play it.  Sign me up.</p><p>I'd use EQ1's smaller number of classes with no restrivtive archtype system, but keep them based on alignment from EQ2, not race like EQ1.  Being a good Shadow Knight defeats the purpose of being a Shadow Knight.  And for the heck of it, I'd inlcude Beastlords just to stop that argument before it starts... :p</p><p>While we're at it, I'd include Vanguard's mount system and player made boats, since Vanguard is kinda of like EQ's [I cannot control my vocabulary] step child.</p><p>I'd make deity a choice made at character selection, with a broader choice of deity's like EQ1.  I'd also have deity choice effect other social factions like in EQ1.  However I'd use EQ2's deity system of quests, blessings, and miracles, as well as the ability to renounce deities for others.</p><p>I'd have mob leashing in overland zones, but not in dungeons where you are trespassing in someone elses home/city/fortress/lair/etc...</p>

[Fellindar]

So would I.Few but more distinct classes would definantly be good. I wont repeat all the points above again but in terms of Norrath's geography and period I would like to see something pre shattering and maybe even pre EQ1.

[dawy]

Aye same here..if only if only they would make itOr watch field of dreams a few times.."if you build it they will come" <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Deadrus]

I agree to most everything. i think each races should have its own starting city and that classes should be based on good and evil and to an excent what race can play them I enjoyed that resctrion in eq1 because it made you make choices. A fay that is a waraor class and any race can be wariors is just silly. Fay are magical creaturs they should be restricted to healers mages and maybe scouts. Maybe a middle ground not as resticting as eq1 but not nearly as open as eq2. And one thing id like to add to your list contenants pre shatering and contenants on the scale of vanguards contenants. I loved the feeling of how large the world was in vanguard (eventhought pretty much everything else about it sucked) This creates more oportunity for soe to include ruins with more lore eq2 just doesnt have much ruins in it makes the world feel like its not that old vanguard had lots of ruins all over it made the world feel like it had been around a really long time. And i really liked that feeling specialy comeing from a Fantasy setting mmo.

[Qandor]

Dump the archetype system and any race any class and I might agree with the OP. Nothing dumber than an ogre wizard or a fairy tank in my opinion. One other thing. They shouldn't even attempt to do another Everquest if they are going to send it out the door unpolished. Get your class balance substantially complete before shipping so that we can avoid these total overhauls which just lose you subscribers.

[Jovie]

<p>Thanks for the great feedback folks! Thinking about the any race any class deal makes me agree that it should be restrictive. The good SK example makes it perfectly clear.</p><p>Another great point about getting your religion out of the starting gate. It should be something you get and not have to go throug a jump through the hoops everwalk quest like it is in eq2. Sure, have quests that deal with your diety, but not getting one until much later in your career is boring.</p><p>The vanguard references are right on target. The landmasses seem great in size, taking a good while to traverse. It is part land mass and a big part of the overal size of the character in comparison. The eq2 ratio of toon size to landmass is too close. It makes the world seem that much smaller.</p><p>I think one of the reasons that sony doesn't ourright rebuild their eq1 engine is because they have to keep it within specifications previously agreed upon when people bought the game. There is probably still a portion of their paying community that would lose out if it was updated to 2008 standards.</p><p>That aside, i know that there is probably a very large chunk of players that would eagerly repurchase a totally renovated game. Still, for sanity's sake i think it would be better if it wasn't quite eq1 and not quite eq2.</p><p>Smed or whoever is in charge these days should realize that it is Norrath that is what the majority of players want. Not pirates, not secret agents, not moon kitties. </p><p>I have a pretty safe feeling that had eq2 been launched with a style closer to that of eq1 that it would have had incredibly strong numbers. </p>

[Shinreu]

<cite>Jovie@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have a pretty safe feeling that had eq2 been launched with a style closer to that of eq1 that it would have had incredibly strong numbers. </p></blockquote>I agree with this statement.  I was disappointed when I found out that they were going to be breaking up and changing the way norrath looked, when I first found out about eq2.  I would definitely play a eq3 if it was along the lines of the OP.

[vochore]

<p>you forgot to add beastlords back into the mix.....<span style="font-size: x-large;">muhahaha.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-large;">bring back the beastlords.</span></p>

[Illmarr]

<cite>vochore wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>you forgot to add beastlords back into the mix.....<span style="font-size: x-large;">muhahaha.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-large;">bring back the beastlords.</span></p></blockquote>Only if they bring back the possibility of de-leveling please. I loved dinging 70 everytime I was rezzed on a raid during OoW and DoN

[Karaya]

<p>I like a lot of the OP's ideas.  Here are some things I'd like to see:</p><p> - Certain classes restricted by diety, like EQ1 was.  Not all classes, just certain ones when it makes sense lore-wise.  Necros & SKs had to worship a god that would grant them necromantic magic (Bertoxxulous, Innoruuk, or Cazic Thule).  Priests, Rangers, & Pallys had to worship *someone* to be granted priestly magic - i.e. no agnostic clerics were allowed.</p><p>- Numerous starting cities based on race.  This is one of the most fun things about EQ1.  Plus working on faction with a racial city or using an illusion to increase faction was tons of fun, and something that was completely thrown out the window in EQ2.</p><p> - Choosing a deity and class at character creation, but having the option of changing both later in the game (even if they make you start the new class at level 1).  i.e. a high elf would not be able to start out as a Necro worshipping Bertoxxulous.  But he could start out as an agnostic Enchanter or Summoner (or even Warrior), and as he travels, he could find a prophet of Bertoxxulous and convert, then find a Necro guild who would train him (change his class and sell him spells, etc).  He'd probably wind up an outcast from Felwithe & Kelethin.  I think a process like that would be super cool.  Any race/any class, but in an interesting way that makes sense lore-wise.</p><p>     - Sub-topic:  The example above is extreme, but there could also be less extreme class changes.  For instance, Rivervale would have no mage guild, so a halfling couldn't start the game as an enchanter.  But he could start as a rogue, then travel to Qeynos and work to join the Order of Three and become an enchanter.  The journey would shape his relationship to the world and the factions involved, making the whole issue of a halfling enchanter a little more interesting and interactive.</p><p> - Meaningful penalties for dying!  I was SO afraid of dying in EQ1, and that brought a realistic level of fear to traveling alone or taking on challenging mobs.  Personally, I think that added a LOT of fun to the game.  In EQ2, I really don't care if I die.  I'll try crazy stunts because I really have nothing to lose.  I miss the fear of death from EQ1.</p>

[Iapetus]

<p>...</p>

[Shinreu]

<cite>Karaya wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> - Meaningful penalties for dying!  I was SO afraid of dying in EQ1, and that brought a realistic level of fear to traveling alone or taking on challenging mobs.  Personally, I think that added a LOT of fun to the game.  In EQ2, I really don't care if I die.  I'll try crazy stunts because I really have nothing to lose.  I miss the fear of death from EQ1.</p></blockquote>Think this is one of the things I miss the most.  I remember being scared when the [Removed for Content] hit the fan, or when the group was taking on a tough mob, because you did not want to die and have to 1) go get your corpse (but a good bit of my fond memories of eq1 were the fun, trying to get back down and dragging the groups bodies to a safe spot etc.) 2) spend another 2+ hours getting back the exp.  Made people think before they acted.  Not like here where it doesn't matter if you die.  Not sure if you can take on that full room of mobs?  Pull anyways whats the worst that can happen?? heh

[Paddyo]

<p>1. Meaningful death?  we had that originally, with group experience debt, more experience debt, and shard recovery.  granted, it was never "hey, I need to go BACk to the mob that just obliterated me, while naked, to get my stuff back? awesome" but it was more than this nothing we have now.  Why did they take it out?  I'll let you all figure that one out.</p><p>2. Multi healer groups in EQ2?  Seriously? Aside from maybe Maidens chamber, where I have a druid along solely to root one of the sisters so I don't need more than 5 people and don't have to scrounge up a mezzer, I cannot think of any zone I can't solo heal, and I'm not bragging up my healing prowess at all....just saying. </p><p>The one challenge left in this game (aside from raid content which is a different beast entirely) is how MUCH can I do with how FEW people?  I'm working on duoing COA, we can full group the zone in around 20 minutes, and trio it in about the time an average pick up group takes to do it, but duoing is TOUGH so far. </p><p>As far as anything remotely challenging for solo/group content left in this game, that is it. It occurred to me yesterday that Everquest 2 simply doesn't create great EVENTS in your memory like Everquest did.  I can talk of corpse runs, LDON runs, long camps for quests or epics (that, while everyone always complains about long camps, how many great memories occur while doing them?).  Even the very first time Paddyofurniture, as a young halfling cleric, tried to hug the zone wall through Kithicor Forest at night to make it to commonlands and all the excitement and promise that would bring?  Kithicor was EERIE!  </p><p>EQ2 is redundant and not much more.  I'm not complaining, because we have a great game universe here with great lore and we can experience it relatively bug free. (it is, when all is said and done, fairly stable). I just wish I could log on to the game and have something refreshing waiting for me to do, as opposed to doing the same instance/questline I have already done on another character. Scalable instances would help with this....what would be so bad with a normal, hard, extreme choice when zoning in to COA or Chelsith? (wasn't splitpaw kind of this way? and what about the Pirates hidden stash and the pirates hidden stash heroic?) Then toy with the drops accordingly, or even itemize more stuff to compensate.  Or tie faction or a point system into instance grinding so that if you are running COA for the seventh time this week it means you're are 7 times closer to some goal/item/title. That doesn't seem like a very hard thing to implement, other than the itemization of a reward system or such.  Then, once the system is up and working, trickle down into the other tiers.</p>

[Qandor]

Really cannot predict if there will be another Everquest game but when you think about it, Everquest is pretty much SOE's franchise. They really do not have anything else with anywhere near the name recognition that Everquest has. It would be foolish not to do another and if they got it right it could still be a highly successful game. When they made EQ2 they tossed out a lot of the bad of Everquest but they also tossed out a lot of its good features as well. They need to revisit the best ideas from both games and expand on those while adding a fresh twist.

[Elro]

<p>When I saw this post I really could only agree with many of you. I have played EQ some and not much EQ2. I was really hoping to see EQ2 as EQ gameplaywise. Tho not as hard and unforgiving as EQ can be. It dont exactly have to be survival of the fittest. The class system in EQ2 is restricted in a way. As I recall EQ it had some good opportunities for each class tho some classes had very limited abilities compared to others. In eq2 its like the classes are tied to its 4 categories , they shouldn´t have put them in categories and mirror the classes as much they did. For example a bit dissapointed that the berserker class was actually a tank and not melee dps as in EQ. But in EQ2 they made it so all the "tanks" have taunt. It gets a little stereotypical when you have  pool of classes being this with some variances. </p><p>Some thoughts and the impression of EQ2: </p><p>Btw I havent exactly tried an mmo where all the class very truly unique but it could be interesting to not having the classes mirrored but instead making the AA system larger and you could specialize 1 class as in a 1000 combinations. Or something else but to me some of the classes looks alot like. Ofc there are some contradictions like a melting a Paladin and SK or Conj and Nec. But I see fury and warden somewhat alike ,templer and inquis is like an evil and good cleric but in EQ it was just a cleric but you could invest points in aas. Mayeb this doesnt help  all and will only make things more complicated.</p><p>But the beastlord class wouldnt be out of the way . But guess what they would have to make an evil variation as well :o</p>

[DataOutlaw]

<p>Sometimes i really miss EQ1. I even played onthe progression server for a while.</p><p>I would love to see an incarnation of the game that contained classic EQ (i.e. no expansions) with the EQ2 gameplay and interface.</p><p>I think this could be done as a "time portal" that allowed a current EQ2 player to warp into the EQ1 timeline to interact with EQ1 zones and quests. I would only want the classic Eq1 zones (Odus, Antonica, and Faydwer). </p><p>As a bonus new players could choose to start in the timeline choosing races and classes not available to EQ2 but they would then be stuck there and would have to "betray" to the EQ2 timeline by choosing a current race / class combination to play in any EQ2 zones. This would make for an interesting experiment in the class balance of adding Beastlords back into the mix in an EQ2 environment. It might also provide a way for EQ1 players to "transfer" their EQ1 characters into the EQ2 universe.</p><p>I know this idea is really out there and would require a massive zone design, class balance, and itemization effort. Sometimes i jsut really miss wandering the old Qeynos Hills, the old Steamfont mountains, the old Greater Faydark, etc. and would love to take my EQ2 characters there sometimes. I wouldn't mind playing Beastlord in an EQ2 interface or having the option of transferring some of my beloved EQ1 characters into EQ2. </p>

[Razlath]

<p>I wouldn't give each race a starting city.  After all, if you do, then you basically imply that they have to be able to defend themselves in all ways.  Instead, I would form alliance cities similar to Kelethin.  Then the martial races of the alliance would cover the martial duties, and the caster types the caster duties, etc.  Basically no any class any race, but don't leave a city with nothing but magic users as well.</p><p>Within those cities, each race would have its own progression though.  None of this silly every race can do every quest as well.  Lets see some replayability in a game you expect us to play for multiple years!  ;}</p>

[Khandor]

As long as there are iksar and monks, I'd play it.

[Jovie]

<p>As with others, i would love love love love to be able to travel back in time. Even if they were limited instances, perhaps during the shattering itself.</p><p>You could almost pull off an eq2 ldon expansion done strictly through time travel. </p><p>Mr Wayfarer dude who just happens to be hanging around outside the Qeynos gate says "hail, fair traveller. Might you be interested in joining in our investigation to disturbances within the very fabric of time and space? Then join us!!"</p><p>You select the mission type, be it solo group or raid, the variety in destruction cataloguing rescue and assasination, and normal or hard.</p><p>Then you enter the void and find yourself outside the cave enterence to Befallen, with the mission to recover stolen artifacts used to poison the city of Freeport...etc etc etc....</p><p>As a developer, i do believe this would be a wonderful project to work on. It gives them freedom to redesign original zones with eq2 engine specs. It could be handled totally instanced and offer players of all types to dive head first into a lot of the old time lore.</p>

[Jeenyous]

<p>I would love to see an EQIII with many of the player friendly features of EQII and would love to see it be set in a time BEFORE EQI instead of after it.</p>

[DaFriar]

Add in Group harvesting from Vanguard and you got another gamer added to that Game. I love the Lore of EQ, always have, and always will. It's the first game I played online and I deeply immersed myself into the lore of it. Everything you have posted is great. I love it, add just that one more mechanic and I'd be happy!

[Keikoku]

The reason for having the quests for Deity's at this point in time is because they left.  When this game first started, the gods weren't around, so you weren't able to choose a god to follow.  As for the time frame, they've already got a before EQ1(EQOA).  And EQ2 is only up until PoP time line in EQ1.  There's plenty of opportunity, but I think after the time line of EQ2 would be a better time.

[Nakaru-Nitepaw]

They need to make a PC version of EQOA, just so i can make some decent screenshots and movies.

[Jovie]

Actually the eqoa idea isn't a bad one. Imagine the fun exploring a lush jungle where the desert of ro would eventually be!

[Johnhostuk1]

Everquest 2 was greenlighted in the peak of EQ1's popularity.  SOE right now (and EQ franchise) has blown it so many times with players that the majority of MMORPG players hate SOE.  SWG was supposed to be bigger then anything, bigger then WOW, yet numbers lagged, Lucas Arts was not happy and NGE was the result.Now that EQ2 has failed to bring in the number SOE hoped for (because their game design was crap compared to Brad's designs) and they changed EQ1 to crap too with their failed game mechanics.The upshot is EQ2 is not all lost and slowly but surely changing the game to be more like the original EQ.  The problem is, SOE and Sony Computer Entertainment suits probably think the EQ IP is old news.  They know they've blown it with rushed expansions and crap content.  They know they ruined it be over promising and under delivering.  They blown it with EQ, and I very much doubt they will ever make another again.SOE is focusing now on games like the Agency and Free Realms.  Smed is geeking out of Collectible Trading Card Games and basically they are banking on PS3/PC titles working together with mass market new MMO ideas (not traditional fantasy RPG's).  The hardcore crowd is older, burned out, and a bit fed up.  I think it will be more and more challenging to really find a good hardcore MMO.  It will be even more challenging to find an MMO that has the magic combinations that was found in EQ1.Blizard might make cartoony mass-market games, but they do them very well.  SOE has great ideas, and even great intentions but botches the job with really poor decisions.  The reason EQ1 succeeded, was the suits weren't involved in it's designed...it was a labour of love and passion....not mass market appeal.

[Giral]

<p>i remember reading one thing from brad with all the hype going on when vanguard was coming out where he said something like " future mmo's will be more nitche , you will have hardcore games, easy games,more hack and slash, etc,,, "  the Fantasy Mmo genre wasn't a mass market product until WOW, and now alot of companies have taken note, we have had vanguard,Lotr,AOC so far, and all have wound up turning into Nitche games, Lotr for the tolkien fans, Vanguard for the brad lovers and some eq1 nostalgia in a newer engine, AOC for the more mature audiance(can we say Boobies in or is that Filterable ) and Blood , War hammer is suppose to be a Nitch for Siege gameplay.     </p><p>we already see that coming true Fantasy MMo's are turning into there nitches so in the years to come we will get more games in these same catagories Fast paced,easy,medium,hardcore,pvp,siege,turn based, etc,, instead of what we see atm of every game trying to cater to all playstyles and ALL leaning towards the Casual play cuase Atm thats where marketing thinks the money is, but will people continue to want to just play easy/casual Mmo's forever ?     </p><p>Eq2 does a decent job of balancing between casual/medium/hardcore but the game leans heavily towards the casual and with so many of there players looking for more challanging hardcore content they must be aware that there is a market for a Hardcore Fantasy MMO ,  just read thru Vanguards forums befor release so many old eq1 and eq2 players were extremly hopefull that it would be the True follow up to eq1 , but by the time it went live and had a bunch of nerfs, it just turned into a carbon copy of eq2 , just another casual game,in a mass of other casual games </p><p>in 5 years from now if they create an eq3 and make it a Hardcore game it will be one of the only hardcore games on the Market , but that will be what is the selling point becuase all the Gamers are looking for a real Challanging MMO , they have tried Eq2,Vanguard,AOC and they just cant find anything that can satusfy that Itch .  Eq3 with the best from eq1 and eq2 thats stated form the start that it will be a Hardcore Old fashioned MMO, with Shards (becuase Shards>Corpses) Level Loss, Slow exp gain, etc,, etc,,   i'd pre-purchase it today from 5 years out , becuase by then there will be no need to Dumb down content there will be so many Mmo's out for various styles and levels of play , and the alot will be looking for a game that is a Challange by then. </p><p>or in 5 years from now we could have 50 Helly Kitty MMO's ; ) </p>

[Crothos]

<p>...</p>