Wow. the nerf bat already? April 6th changes.

[cxp1]

<p>I really don't like the longer recasts for Hostage and Spell Curse.  It is sorta sad to get so excited and then get nerfed down so drastically.  Having an upgrade to Cataclysmic Mind is trival in comparison Aerelik.</p><p>I don't think we are close to parsing like an illusionist now.  We can't use the pet on raids since our mythical doesn't remove the concentration slot.  So do not expect raiding Coercers to be able to use it.</p><p>I've gone from excited to disappointed about our changes.  Are we better than before? Yes.  Are we competitive with illusionist on dps. No.  Do we have more utility than illu? No.</p><p>Recap.</p><p>Tashiana:  Makes it to apply to all magic but reduced significantly and recast doubled.  The mage resists nerf implemented a few months ago was [Removed for Content].  So the resist issue is really just a fix not an improvement.</p><p>Manaward:  Not terribly useful.  Loosing all your power without being able to pre-ward...  for one heal.. I don't think I'll use that much.  I would use to pre-ward, but it can't be cast out of combat.</p><p>Hostage and Spell Curse:  Why can't we have our old spells that just work?  I really hate waiting twice as long to cast.</p><p>Puppetmaster:  Still a fluff spell with little dps.</p><p>Possess Essence:  Takes three conc slots and does not justify the conc slots vs. dps buff or link for raids.  Useless for raiding players.  This is very disappointing considering the whole point was to give us a pet like illusionist in raids where we can't charm anything.</p><p>Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. I'm very disappointed.</p><p> Vixn</p><p>80 Coercer Befallen</p><p>ps.  all the other classes that are trolling our threads.. shoo you've done your damage go away.</p>

[chily]

<p>Did you tested it too?</p>

[pebyr]

well its hard to say exactly what effect this will have.  This is with my current gearon testspell curse power 213 cast 1.59 recovery .37 recast 18.2 hostage power 211cast 1.2 recovery .37 recast 18.2on livespell cursepower 213cast 1.59recovery .4recast 13.6hostagepower 213 cast 1.2 recovery .4 recast 9.1as you can see, not really much change from the test to live in regards to spell curse.  That being said, the recast timer to hostage has been doubled.  However, by the time all 5 triggers fired before, it was probably this long anyways.  however the equivalent illusionist spell, the t5 version of the prismatic line(my illy isn't t8 yet), has a recast of 15 seconds, which most likely translates to about 13.6 seconds.  Ok, this may seem like we are getting nerfed in comparison, but please remember that we have spell curse AND hostage.  All this really does is keep us in line.  I want parity, because if we are too far in advance, we'll just get nerfed.  Frankly our worst nemesis isn't SoE, its other players complaining about our dps.  Pluse they have aa's to reduce that recast, but we have aa's to give us more triggers.  Now that those triggers will indeed proc, its a little hard to see who is doing better.  I would like to see our recast timers be in line though, since I have a feeling that being able to recast that faster will over all be better.  If i am wrong in this assertion, please correct me.  I dont feel like trying to run that math.

[Strange]

Indeed, worst of all they wasted our spells by changing Possession into pet, which we ALREADY have charm spell in the first place! Aerlik is messing up with Coercer, if I see that goes on live then I would kill my character definitely. Weakling evil copy of Illy, vomit! Disappointed big time. I am not into DPS parser, but game playing uniqueness that I am looking for. I found Coercer, yea it needs some work and NOW here we got fix. On the contrary its DISGUST fix. Change to CM, that I don't give any @$(*% because it once useful and they NERFED back then and now they just fixed what they nerfed; come on reap what ur sow! What about Signet spell?What I have seen on test server, I'M NOT REALLY HAPPY ABOUT IT! What is really the FIX to Coercer? I think its NOTHING, just another set back for us to play. They really wasted my time and money on this game.

[Jesdyr]

<cite>cxp1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I really don't like the longer recasts for Hostage and Spell Curse.  It is sorta sad to get so excited and then get nerfed down so drastically.  Having an upgrade to Cataclysmic Mind is trival in comparison Aerelik.</p>Hostage and Spell Curse:  Why can't we have our old spells that just work?  I really hate waiting twice as long to cast. </blockquote>The old spells where the problem and people have been complaing about the "punish" mechanic that they used for a LONG TIME. The old versions almost never proc'd before the recast timer was up the new versions will. This means the spell will actually have used up all it's triggers before you can recast it (which is a HUGE boost). I dont understand why people cannot get past looking at damage numbers in the info window and actually think about what the changes really do for the the spells and the class overall.

[cxp1]

<p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Times New Roman;">I've cooled down a little since my first post.  I've gone from mad to just disappointed.  I'm disappointed about the nerf changes, but mostly disappointed about the nerf of Lash.  40% and lengthier recast seems excessive.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Times New Roman;">If you do the math, we are unlikely to be at parity with illusionist.  But it will be much closer than before the changes.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Times New Roman;">I would categorize LU45 in three categories:</span></p><p><b>Positive:</b></p><p>Coercive Healing:  Perfect, increase in utiliity and more useful to clerics.</p><p>Cataclysmic Mind:  Don't like the longer recast, but still very useful to what was otherwise a broken spell.</p><p>Stun and Stifle damage:  Since power drain is worthless, nice to have.. not much dps but betten than nothing.</p><p>Call pet / shrink pet:  Nice.. very useful.</p><p>Hostage change to disruption:  Thank you on this.  Ordination resists caused problems.</p><p>Hostage change to melee:  Fine (and irrelavant) to raiding players.  Not so hot for solo/group.  But frankly we are fine for most solo group play..</p><p>Mechanics of Hostage and Lash:  Positive in that in changed from triggering on player action vs. mob landing on tank/players.</p><p> <b>Ok but not exciting:</b></p><p>Tashiana:  This is an improvement.  But when you consider that mage resists nerf are ill-founded it is not so great.  At least it doesnt get resisted as much.</p><p>Manaward:  Better than before, but doubt I can see using it for reasons posted above.</p><p><b>Poor.  Needs Work:</b></p><p> Possess Essence:  Nice idea, fails for two reasons.  First, concentration slots use.  It will never in its current form be used by any raiding player that is not an idiot.  You could never justify the trade off for link and or impetus buffs for the pet.  Since it is unlikely our mythicals will get changed to match illusionist.  (I have one).  We still have a dps bias against us.  The 20m range idea is completely [I cannot control my vocabulary].  It would only be usefull in raids where you couldn't charm a pet.  Otherwise, solo/group coerces will charm a mob.  There is no reason why I should ever have to be in the aggro range of an epic to use.  We also should be able to copy named for fun, since this is essentially a fluff spell.  IF YOU FIX ANYTHING PLEASE FIX THIS SPELL.</p><p>Puppetmaster:  The extra pet is irrelevant to dps.  Maybe be a debuff pet(s) instead of dps?</p><p>Invis AE avoid for chanters:  Needs to work more effectively.</p><p>Impetus/ Enrag. Demeanor:  We need upgrade spells for T8 tier.  Fine use the same % but give a trivial proc. </p><p>Vixn</p>

[chily]

<cite>cxp1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Puppetmaster:  The extra pet is irrelevant to dps.  Maybe be a debuff pet(s) instead of dps?</p></blockquote>It's not the extra pet that makes the change big (nice too), it's the fact that the hit rate got upgraded off the pet's.

[pebyr]

well i'm happy about the changes.  Possession was a non issue for me in the past, because it was less than useless.  Ok, so it isn't that useful now.  But its still cool to possess stuff you wouldn't normally make as a pet.  It would be nice to have it do more damage though.  I probably wont be using it a whole lot.  Yes our dps will go up a huge amount over all, if not for consistancy sake.  Right now, I have to go nuts to get 2 to 3k, and its almost like voodoo, considering you have to know the mob, and know what it will fire, etc.  The changes to hostage and spell curse alone will mean consistant dps, because if we can land the spell, it will fire immediately from an entire raid hammering on the mob.Hostage - the change to disruption alone will make a ton of difference for me, because I get resisted alot in vp.  considering how long it takes for all the triggers to fire on 90% of the mobs out there, and hostage will be firing about the same amount of time as it is now.Tashiana - this is a huge improvement for me.  When I can't even land the existing one, due to it being resisted, just being able to get this onto the mob and hopefully land my reactives in the first second of the fight, will be monstrous.All in all, yes this is not gonna give us 10k dps.  We are not being given tactical nukes, we are not going to be given the ability to charm epic raid mobs and have our way with it.  But after working my [Removed for Content] off to hit 2k, it will be really nice to be able to do substantially better than that, and have it be consistent.  Instead of 1200 on one mob, and maybe 2900 on another, have it consistently be more.The problem with this, is that is hard to group on testcopy, and the real test is going to be when coercers start grouping and raiding.  Only then can we see exactly what our dps numbers will be.  Till then, i'd reserve a ton of my complaints until we know for sure what all the final results will be.

[Maroger]

<cite>cxp1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I really don't like the longer recasts for Hostage and Spell Curse.  It is sorta sad to get so excited and then get nerfed down so drastically.  Having an upgrade to Cataclysmic Mind is trival in comparison Aerelik.</p><p>I've gone from excited to disappointed about our changes.  Are we better than before? Yes.  Are we competitive with illusionist on dps. No.  Do we have more utility than illu? No.</p></blockquote><p>I really don't like the longer recasts -- I think that is in the nature of a nerf. I agree with what you have said. </p><p>I don't think that we got the sort of changes we need. We are still low in the DPS line and the fact that after the first changes went to test, someone whined we were overpowered and Aeralik hit the Nerf Button. </p><p>Why does SOE have such a problem with Coercer's having DPS and being powerful. Are they trying to avoid the power of the enchanter in EQLIVE? I think the EQLIVE enchanter must have firightened them. </p>

[Roald]

<p>Not only did they increase the Reuse time, they LOWERED the damage on this spells dramatically.</p><p>Its a pretty huge nerf for solo PvP, and this will probably lower my DPS for the raid I do go on occasionally. Hostage always triggers completely when i'm fighting epic mobs before I can recast it. Probably because, due to a heavy focus on PvP, our tanks aren't raid equipped at all.</p><p>So for me, this is going to be a nerf for what I spend the majority of time doing (PvP) and a nerf to the small amount of PvE raiding I do. Sweet.</p>