Ancestral Balm change

[Effi]

Per the notes:        <span class="postbody"><span class="postbody"><span><span><span><span><span><li><i>Mystic</i>    The Ancient Balm line will now grant short duration immunities to any control effects it cures.</li></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span class="postbody"><span class="postbody"><span><span><span>In reality:Upon</span></span></span></span></span><span class="postbody"> removal of a control effect the target gets what appears to be a 9.2 second Immunity (at Master I if quality has any effect on duration) to that specific control effect (i.e. cure a stun, get stun immunity). This immunity doesn't appear to prevent a spell from applying it merely makes it so the control effect portion does not affect the target. The recast without modification is 8.0 seconds. In my opinion:</span><ul><li><span class="postbody">The duration of the immunity is too short.</span></li><li><span class="postbody">The chances that I would be using Ancestral Balm to cure anything given the new cure is minimal, I see an effect up I hit <i>Cure</i> button, it goes away.</span></li><li><span class="postbody">If I were to actively use Balm and cure a non control effect before one is applied it's therefore not going to be available to be used. So I then would cure as per usual.</span></li><li><span class="postbody">If I'm in group with another priest, they would just use their cure to strip off the effect before I even was able to finish casting Balm.</span></li><li><span class="postbody">Mesmerize is not one of the effects it provides Immunity for which I'm sure is a control effect.</span></li><li><span class="postbody">In it's current state this will be useless in 99% of the game due to lack of repetitive control effects. Notable exceptions being end-game raiding damage shield and pulling a multitude of enchanter type mobs. In order to even test this I went the the only encounter I could think of that have enough mobs with stifle effects with suitable frequency - the hypnoglobs in the ruins by Threeko in Fens of Nathsar.</span></li></ul>Does anyone know where a level 58 Mystic that just scribed their new Ancient Teachings: Ancient Balm will <i>ever</i> use this?<span class="postbody"><span class="postbody">   <img src="http://i27.tinypic.com/wguxdz.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> </span></span>

[Kinya]

I would have to totally agree with you. Another useless spell <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Maybe if the immunity will be a bit longer... But still, if I have other healer in my grp I don't think he will wait for my balm to be up and remove dots to have a possibility for gaining any kind of immunization for my target.

[Finora]

<p>On live it's been one of my frequently used spells. As it stands on test, I doubt it will ever actually be useful, except on the off chance that there are several effects of the same kind on someone important & only one of them is a control effect and that isn't the last one that was applied. (it happens sometimes now but it's not really what I'd call a frequent occurance.)</p><p>9 second immunity is pretty useless. Most mobs that use control effects don't spam them and to make use of a 9 second immunity that only goes into effect when something is cured, the mobs pretty much would have to be spamming the effect.</p><p>=(</p>

[Sputt]

It's a very good point you're making.But what do you suggest instead? How do you wish it worked for it to become useful? It's in testing now, so now is the time to give feedback. Give them an alternative and it will be a lot easier to get through.

[Mörk]

<p>Well, I have a few possible alternatives;</p><p>1. Make it a groupwide uber-cure on a longer recast/higher power cost.</p><p>2. If it's going to cure control effects, make it castable while *under* a control effect, like  Freedom of Mind/Freedom of Action potion but without the annoyingly long reuse.</p><p>3. Extend the immunity to something more useful, somewhere between 30 and 60 seconds.</p>

[Pelda]

Only mob that will be userful on is Venril.  You can pretty much keep the MT immune to the fear (or 1 other person for that matter).

[Sputt]

<cite>Rahael@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well, I have a few possible alternatives;</p><p>1. Make it a groupwide uber-cure on a longer recast/higher power cost.</p><p>2. If it's going to cure control effects, make it castable while *under* a control effect, like  Freedom of Mind/Freedom of Action potion but without the annoyingly long reuse.</p><p>3. Extend the immunity to something more useful, somewhere between 30 and 60 seconds.</p></blockquote>This is interesting. I like the first two. The third is a bit over the edge, in my opinion anyway, since an effect duration that long would extend the recast exponentially to that. The first two combined would be good. A group-wide hostile effects cure that you can use while incapacitated by a hostile effect. High power cost and a recharge that makes you assess the situation both once and twice before clicking it, but used at the right time it's a wipe saver.Would that make it useful?

[Skywarrior]

<p>To me it would be enormously useful if it were simply made a self-only, can be cast while under control effect, cure all (with or without the immunity).  This would allow me to remove control effects from myself and then get on with the business of curing the rest of my group.</p>

[Effi]

I'm all for a self-only version of the current balm that would be castable while under a control effect. Lengthen the reuse to something suitable for its potency and then consider changing the AP from a ward to a reuse timer reduction.

[Sputt]

How about if the AP was 5% / 10% / 15% / 20% / 25% (or whichever values would be reasoanble to fit the utility) to make the target immune to other hostile effects as well, assuming that at least one is removed? Would that, combined with the currently planned changes, make it less situational and make the immunity useful without extending the immunity duration?

[Effi]

So at 5 ranks you would have a 25% chance to proc full control effect immunity(similar to cure line end ability) when any control effect is removed with the cure?It would be less situational, but anything with as low of a chance as that really isn't something that can be relied on. It is also fairly rare for an encounter to mix control effects much besides mezz/stifle and mezz isn't covered by this spell in it's GU45 state.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8f7fb9dd46fb8ef86f81154a4feaada9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> I know- Just turn Ancient Balm into the same thing as the Immunization AP then trash ALL the Cure APs and give us a debuff line <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[JamesRay]

Even changing it to useable while stunned it would make a difference.  Even better if it were group wide and forget about the immunities.

[Sputt]

<cite>Effive wrote:</cite><blockquote>It would be less situational, but anything with as low of a chance as that really isn't something that can be relied on. It is also fairly rare for an encounter to mix control effects much besides mezz/stifle and mezz isn't covered by this spell in it's GU45 state.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8f7fb9dd46fb8ef86f81154a4feaada9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> I know- Just turn Ancient Balm into the same thing as the Immunization AP then trash ALL the Cure APs and give us a debuff line <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>I don't know the encounters, so it's hard for me to know what can be expected from them - thanks for that correction <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I like the idea of a debuff line, but it might be a bit of a big revamp when they have much bigger issues with other classes that I'm sure takes priority. Being able to use it while stunned may very well be a realistic change, though.

[ecoskii]

<p>GRATS to the [Removed for Content] at SOE for completely ignoring all CUSTOMER feedback again - we now have 1 useful spell less with a dumb replacement that is only any use on 1-2 mobs.  Has one single customer said this version was a good idea??</p><p>Best part is i guess no-one reads these anyway </p>

[Cawti]

With the cure changes it seems like all the priest cure lines (Mystic, Warden, Templar) became pretty useless.  I think it makes a lot of sense to remove these AA lines and replace them with something completely different.  Debuff enhancing would be most welcome here for mystics, at least.With every priest effectively getting Ancient Balm, it means that 2/3 of the mystic Ancient teaching spells from DoF are useless.  I don't think it'd step on defiler toes too much to make Balm a self-only control cure, which does what the spell does now, but is castable while controlled.  The defiler's VotA cures an entire group.  Mess with the recasts or something to balance, but without that, I can't see "regular" mystics who don't raid ever getting much use out of Balm compared with the plain vanilla cures which every priest gets.The other DoF AT spell, the nuke thing, works just like coercers old Spell Curse (pre-changes), but with a bonus (also useless) power drain.  Torpor is a nice spell, but that's only 1/3.

[ecoskii]

All the entirely negative feedback on this dumb change has been ignored.  What do we do now instead of just removing a once useful ability from our toolbars?  I have seen no sign of any Mystic dev ever.... who do we start PMing

[ecoskii]

cast this spell by accident once last night.  You've bolloxed this one completely and ignored all feedback  - just delete it or make it sprout roses out the MT's but t  - that would be more useful

[Effi]

I haven't used this spell since the change hit. I was hoping there was gonna be a rabbit pulled out of a hat with the GU46 test notes but it wasn't the case.While the intention of the new version is good, the reality is it's just not a useful spell at all. There have been some suggestions already, just do <i>something</i>.  Don't wanna give us a stun-breaker? How about full party cure-all on a long timer? How about a group buff with chance to auto-cure something? How about changing it to something completely non-cure related like a group buff that boosts all resists by 800 or something?..or the flowers <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Least it would give us a new 'fun' spell.