Offensive proc working?

[Aull]

<p>Just wanted you all to see if your offensive proc is working. I watched mine the other night and all I seen was maybe was one proc in like six to eight fights. Not sure if it is intended to work like that. If I remember right my offensive stance proc would fire of on average three to four times a fight on a 40-50 fight.</p><p>Roughhousing seems to be working and depending on how long the fight I am seeing it go off about two to three times per 30 sec fight, but hardly ever seeing engulf from the offensive stance work or proc.</p><p>Thanks</p>

[Beldin_]

<p>Hm .. i'm not at home at the moment, however i posted a parser picture from soloing in PoA some days ago here :</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=415190" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=415190</a></p><p>I think that "engulf" must be "Umhüllen". </p><p>I don't know the actual procrate from the spell description at the moment, however "Keilerei" is the proc from our taunt-stance, and it seems to proc nearly 3 times as often. Also it looks as if the proc from the offensice stance is a "magic" heat proc and does not crit on melee crits <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Pnaxx]

<cite>Kendara@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hm .. i'm not at home at the moment, however i posted a parser picture from soloing in PoA some days ago here :</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=415190" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=415190</a></p><p>I think that "engulf" must be "Umhüllen". </p><p>I don't know the actual procrate from the spell description at the moment, however "Keilerei" is the proc from our <u>taunt-stance</u>, and it seems to proc nearly 3 times as often. Also it looks as if the proc from the offensice stance is a "magic" heat proc and does not crit on melee crits <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Is taunt stance our defensive stance? </p><p>Seperate but related question.....do we have greater hate generated from one stance to another? I always thought that the more damage we do the greater the hate, thus arguing for more agressive stances as we miss alot in our defensive stance. What say you all?</p>

[Aull]

<p>I always tank and solo in offensive stance with my bruiser. Being able to hit the mob(s) is very important. If I run defensive stance my hit rate drops so bad I cannot generate enough hate to hold good aggro.  Roughousing is a combat art that will proc a taunt of 520 plus a damage of 170-230 on the adept III and those numbers should be close.</p><p>At times I will use defensive stance in case I need the healer(s) to catch up but for the most part my healing friends are good so I never toggle off/def stances anymore.</p><p>The reason I started this tread is that the engulf from our offensive stance is not offering much an increase or proc rate to say that it is worth having. If it would proc more consistantly it would be a great addition to the offensive stance but from what I am seeing it really isn't procing that much according to Beldin's parse link.</p><p>Anyways just if you all would try and keep an eye on that offensive proc. It seems that it proced more in times past than it does currently.</p><p>Thanks</p>

[Beldin_]

<cite>Pnaxx wrote:</cite><blockquote>Is taunt stance our defensive stance? </blockquote>No .. i meant "manhandle" with that .. our conc-buffs that procs hate and damage. Since we can get a replacement for that through AAs that procs deaggro i call them however taunt and detaunt-stance <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Aull]

<p>Ok last night I made like eight 30-60 second fights in a row and on the eighth fight engulf finally proc'ed. Now is that working as intended or is it not? Just seems that it isn't working well like it once was or maybe I never took the time to see this.</p>

[Sardosaurus]

Noticed Engulf not seeming to work correctly for awhile, for example: 19min of combat within The Temple of Kor-Sha it only proc'd 104 times at a average of 1169.89 with a proc rate of 3.3 tpm which was 2% of my actual zone wide. Its actually been like this for a long time as I cant remember when it became such crap, far as my memory goes through back in EoF Engulf used to be a large portion of our dps in terms of being greatly more damage than any combat art we had granted it was 3.8 tpm with a dirge. Now its not only such a low amount of damage in this zone, going through lots of past parses its all about the same, but one should suffice.TYPE                DAMAGE   EXT DPS  AVERAGE   MIN HIT  MAX HIT  RESIST    HITS    CRITHITS   TO HIT %   Engulf             121668    101.14    1169.89     578        1628       heat       104      5                100.00    Wheres our class tweaks?

[Aull]

<p>Thank you Sardonis!!! That is the info I have been looking for. I agree with you that engulf seemed to proc much more during the eof expansion and was an asset to our auto attack. It has just made me wonder here lately why my auto attack seemed so weak and I started looking at the hit rates and that is when I noticed that roughhousing was procing, but I hardly ever seen engulf proc. I have been montioring this for about a month thinking it was "a just me thing", but even last night helping my mystic friend kill skelies for his epic updates it was on the 16th skeleton that the engulf finally proc'ed. That to me is not working very well, but roughousing seems to be doing ok.</p><p>It is just something that makes me concerned is all. 2% is not that much of a benefit to our auto attack damage and we should have something to make up for the loss of waiting on those long refresh timers on some of our ca's. Just my thoughts.</p><p>Thanks</p>

[Aull]

<p>Ok I am still not seeing engulf proc often enough to see that my bruiser is benefiting from this bonus to our offensive stance. Are any of you other bruisers witnessing the lack of the proc from our offensive stance or am I just silly?</p><p>Thanks.</p>

[delbranson]

<cite>Pnaxx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Seperate but related question.....do we have greater hate generated from one stance to another? I always thought that the more damage we do the greater the hate, thus arguing for more agressive stances as we miss alot in our defensive stance. What say you all?</p></blockquote><p>For determining hate generation, you are generally correct.  </p><p>1 point of damage = 1 point of threat</p><p>1 point of healing = something less than 1 point of threat</p><p>So if you can taunt the enemy for 1000 threat, or punch them in the face for 1001 damage, you would gain more hate from the punch.  </p><p>Then there are some modifiers that can affect your threat beyond that, though how much exactly isn't really known.  If you are the current target of the enemy, your threat generation is increased.  Being of lower level can increase your threat generation.  Proximity to the enemy can affect your threat generation.  Your class archetype can affect your threat generation.</p><p>The stance you choose is not a modifier in the sense those things are, and its affect on your threat generation is really only in how much it affects your dps output.  Yes, you will miss more often in defensive stance, but bring classes with you that boost your weapon skills and/or lower enemy avoidance skills, and the threat generation of both stances can become comparable again (excepting the loss of dps from the off. stance proc).  This makes wardens, dirges and troubadors excellent groupmates when content is so difficult that you'd need your defensive stance, as they all can boost your weapons skills considerably.  Additionally, your defensive stance increases your Aggression skill.  Aggression affects the resist rates of your taunts, and so some threat from damage lost through poor accuracy is augmented with more reliable taunting and Manhandle procing.</p><p>As for the original concern about how often our offensive stance proc is occuring... I'd not really looked at it closely lately, since I've been playing my guardian, but I can maybe offer a tip that could be affecting it.  As far as I know, it will only proc on melee autoattack.  Many would know this already, but if not... Be sure you are not chaining your combat arts directly together so you can be sure not to miss any autoattacks in between.  Queuing another combat art while one is still firing, it will move directly on to the next combat art without autoattacking in between, lowering your overall autoattack damage and opportunities for proc'ing.  Time it out best you can to avoid this.  The brawler agility AA line also will affect your recovery time between arts, so it can be easier to make sure your autoattacks are getting through and you are getting the most out of your weapons and your procs.</p>

[Aull]

<p>Thank you for your response! What I have been doing is going to kylong plains up by teren's grasp and fighting the brutes in the mountain area using just auto attack. My weapons are 4.0 sec delays one is a pristine imbued incardine pitchka and the other the delkium cudgel.</p><p> Just using auto attack I am seeing roughhousing and the gleaming strike from my weapon proc in my combat window procing at least three to four times per fight. However I am not seeing engulf fire off for stretches of six to eight fights before it even procs and when it does it is only for one time. If I am correct engulf should average about 2.0 times per min, and gleaming strike is like 1.8 which is a tad lower than engulf but from what I am witnessing gleaming strike is working at least in every fight where engulf is not.</p><p>Anyways was just wanting some of you all "if you have the time" just give attention to this matter. I could totally be in the wrong on this. It seems that engulf was procing more back in eof days but again I could be wrong.</p><p>Thanks</p>

[Morghus]

I don't know if this is it, but I have noticed the combat window have reported engulf as being resisted quite often since kunark came out. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure it used to almost never be resisted in the eof/kos days.

[Aull]

<p>I read a thread that is a few years old that mentioned that the offensive proc from the bruiser offensive stance should proc off auto attack and combat art damage. That however wasn't offically stated by SOE though. There was a problem back then with engulf firing off three or four times in combination with one hundred hands being used and would also proc engulf from the dot we have on our kick ability but soe did correct the problem. So if I am understanding this correctly now engulf can proc off auto attack and combat arts, but it only has the chance to proc off the initial damage and not any following damage such as one hundred hands or the dot.</p><p>That being said it shouldn't matter if combat arts are being spammed they each should give opportunity for engulf to proc not to mention any exsisting auto attacks in between the combat arts as well. I my mind serves me correctly this was the compensation a bruiser has in relation to monks getting haste from their offensive stance.</p><p>Thanks again.</p>

[Aull]

Ok been doing some reading and this seems to be an issue for a few years now since about 3/10/06 with the tread "offensive stance issues". I couldn't find anything about this issue being fixed or looked into since that posting.

[Sardosaurus]

I am not exactly sure when it 'broke', but the fact is that currently it's not working as it should be in my opinion. Still not sure whats wrong with it even, because it still lands 100% of the time like it did in EoF, but what I have noticed is that it hardly ever crits with 55.5 crit on raids along with a robe and proc'ing not often enough.Comparing Engulf to the Sash of Pain proc it did less through the second half of VP.TYPE                        DAMAGE    EXT DPS  AVERAGE   MIN HIT  MAX HIT  RESIST    HITS    CRITHITS  MISSES   SWINGS  TO HIT %  Bane of Slain Pain   246330     84.53      1492.91     0            2201       mental   165      5               0            200         82.50     Engulf                      221983     76.18     1077.59     598         1744       heat      206      9               0            206         100.00    Even with hitting 41 times less the belt did more damage. The belt is 2.8tpm and only proc'd 6 times less. Obviously the average hit is higher on the belt, but it just shows how much our offensive stance is lacking.Forgot to add that Roughhousing does appear to be working properly, and with the comparison to that I believe the problem lies with how Engulf's damage scales between its teirs and also its crit chance seems to be way off aswell as Roughhousing is almost even able to match its dps.

[Aull]

<p>Thanks for sharing that info! For me I thought that engulf would help us more than it currently does in giving bruiser auto attack with some umph! The only problem is that it is not a consistant buff or reliable buff to depend on like a monks haste. My berserkers "chance to go berserk proc" is much better than my bruisers chance for engulf to proc. I hope that this can be modified or at least given some attention soon. Roughhousing still seems to be doing a good job and so does my weapons gleaming strike when I am using that weapon. I mean engulf only procing a possible eight to ten times per 10-15 fights is just not what I call a benefit to our offensive stance.</p><p>I did read on another forum that since the last update gleaming strike is not procing properly or something like that and that it would be looked into. So I am not sure if that would have anthing to do with the bruiser offensive stance or not.</p><p>Thanks again for you time and your post.</p>