Is it pvp or just class v class?

[bongolongo]

<p>Does it really make a difference who the person is thats pressing the buttons behind the God classes that SOE have developed in this game, is there any skill involved in playing on a pvp server, if you choose one of the God classes that now exist?</p><p>And, more importantly, has soe made it this way to bring an end to pvp in EQ2?</p><p>The reason i ask is a simple, each day i see more and more people leave, not becuase they hate the game, but because when they rolled their Characters 2 -3 yrs ago, pvp was, shall we say, slighty more balanced than it is now.</p><p>Lvl locking used to be a way to pvp, for those casters that couldnt compete in pvp at higher lvls, as it seems that the game was more balanced between the classes at lower lvl, now with the advent of non locking and no exp debt, are we seeing these people leave the game?</p><p>Its obvious to anyone who doesnt have blinkers on, that there is certainly a complete lack of pvp development and im wondering what all this is leading up to, ive heard a few rumours from people that claim to have read interviews and reports in the press that soe is moving away from mmo all together within the next 5 yrs and hoping to develop other online media revenues from sources , other than mmo. At the rate at which people are deserting pvp servers in favour of blue servers and "other" online games with maybe a more balanced pvp system in which people can enjoy a pvp experience that isnt ruled by the two or three god classes it seems need to be rolled to stand a chance of being succeful.</p><p>The ignorance of those that develop these classes being such that they surely must have either no interest, or simply dont care if the pvp aspects of the game are even vaguely balanced. One can only assume, that the way the game is being driven, pvp wise, well it seems that they are literally trying to kill these servers. </p>

[Oneira]

<cite>Jinky@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Does it really make a difference who the person is thats pressing the buttons behind the God classes that SOE have developed in this game, is there any skill involved in playing on a pvp server, if you choose one of the God classes that now exist?</p><p>And, more importantly, has soe made it this way to bring an end to pvp in EQ2?</p><p>The reason i ask is a simple, each day i see more and more people leave, not becuase they hate the game, but because when they rolled their Characters 2 -3 yrs ago, pvp was, shall we say, slighty more balanced than it is now.</p><p>Lvl locking used to be a way to pvp, for those casters that couldnt compete in pvp at higher lvls, as it seems that the game was more balanced between the classes at lower lvl, now with the advent of non locking and no exp debt, are we seeing these people leave the game?</p><p>I<span style="color: #ff0000;">ts obvious to anyone who doesnt have blinkers on, that there is certainly a complete lack of pvp development and im wondering what all this is leading up to, ive heard a few rumours from people that claim to have read interviews and reports in the press that soe is moving away from mmo all together within the next 5 yrs and hoping to develop other online media revenues from sources , other than mmo. At the rate at which people are deserting pvp servers in favour of blue servers and "other" online games with maybe a more balanced pvp system in which people can enjoy a pvp experience that isnt ruled by the two or three god classes it seems need to be rolled to stand a chance of being succeful.</span></p><p>The ignorance of those that develop these classes being such that they surely must have either no interest, or simply dont care if the pvp aspects of the game are even vaguely balanced. O<span style="color: #ff0000;">ne can only assume, that the way the game is being driven, pvp wise, well it seems that they are literally trying to kill these servers.</span> </p></blockquote>Sadly, I have come to a similar conclusion.  The handwriting has been on the wall for some time and now it's becoming more and more an undeniable fact.  PvP is dying of negligence.This may have been a conscious business decision on their part, and perhaps a wise one.  With other games coming out like AoC and Warhammer, SOE may have rightly thought that they are better off concentrating their resources on the PvE game.Anyway, speaking of those two games and the now quite evident lack of support for PvP here, I'm predicting that by the end of the year there will be one pvp server, Nagafen, and that EQ2 pvp will be pretty much dead.  As a PvE game EQ2 is fine and will continue to have its share of players, probably.  If AoC has a good launch and if the pvp there is taken more seriously, which it seems that it already is, then I could see anywhere from 25-50% of the pvp player base leaving within a month.  And when Warhammer launches, unless it's a flop, which is highly unlikely, EQ2 pvp will be a ghost town.

[Brimestar]

Sounds like someone who didn't make it or enjoy T8 pvp so created a twinked locked toon who is slowly leveling....And I have also heard that Venekor is in its death throws again....

[bongolongo]

<cite>Brimestar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like someone who didn't make it or enjoy T8 pvp so created a twinked locked toon who is slowly leveling....And I have also heard that Venekor is in its death throws again....</blockquote><p>no mate, ive got a 74 necro and a 78 Defiler, as well as several other classes, i never locked any of my toons, but i have just returned from a break of several months, to discover, that whilst 12-16 months ago, classes, although out of balance, genrally had a decent chance against any of the the other classes, now , this is not the case.</p><p>Monks out running bards, ==== A joke</p><p>fighter classes out dpsing wizzards===== A joke</p><p>Scouts generally out dpsing everyone ==== a joke</p><p>And, over the last few weeks, resist rates have gone through the roof , generally.</p><p>I would say that pvp is un-balanced, i would also say, with regards to ROK, pve is also becoming un-balanced, where some classes cant solo mobs their on lvl, becuase of the interupts and scout like auto attacks they have gained.</p><p>For pvp to be fun, there has to be at minimum a chance of surviving the first few seconds of pvp, sadly for many, this isnt the case. Whilst it does seem that the majority of the population may have to roll these God Classes to compete, many simply will not, and what are you going to do when you have no "softer" classes to kill, prolly spend all day running about evacing from each other, like most scouts generally do when they pick up another scout on track.</p><p>Many good players are simply lost to others games, not just because, as you say, some servers are light on population, but also because the developers seem not to address the issues concerned with the classes they play.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Jinky@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Brimestar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like someone who didn't make it or enjoy T8 pvp so created a twinked locked toon who is slowly leveling....And I have also heard that Venekor is in its death throws again....</blockquote><p>no mate, ive got a 74 necro and a 78 Defiler, as well as several other classes, i never locked any of my toons, but i have just returned from a break of several months, to discover, that whilst 12-16 months ago, classes, although out of balance, genrally had a decent chance against any of the the other classes, now , this is not the case.</p><p>Monks out running bards, ==== A joke</p><p>fighter classes out dpsing wizzards===== A joke</p><p>Scouts generally out dpsing everyone ==== a joke</p><p>And, over the last few weeks, resist rates have gone through the roof , generally.</p><p>I would say that pvp is un-balanced, i would also say, with regards to ROK, pve is also becoming un-balanced, where some classes cant solo mobs their on lvl, becuase of the interupts and scout like auto attacks they have gained.</p><p>For pvp to be fun, there has to be at minimum a chance of surviving the first few seconds of pvp, sadly for many, this isnt the case. Whilst it does seem that the majority of the population may have to roll these God Classes to compete, many simply will not, and what are you going to do when you have no "softer" classes to kill, prolly spend all day running about evacing from each other, like most scouts generally do when they pick up another scout on track.</p><p>Many good players are simply lost to others games, not just because, as you say, some servers are light on population, but also because the developers seem not to address the issues concerned with the classes they play.</p></blockquote>you know, my necro could solo mobs above his level before rok. triple up heroic nameds. That part of pve aint new. Might just have shifted classes that can do it. Other than that, why must bards be the fastest other than legacy?CAnd is it in pvp or pve that tanks are outdpsing wizards? Because if its pve the wizzy needs to learn to pres sbuttons tbh. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>Tbh I think they just try to fix the classes with gear atm, There are many good iteams for mages that make them own in pvp and same for priest, try to out dps a good priest with that fear iteam. </p><p>Give me the rigth gear on my necro and he would pawn moast classes. And mages with manashield should not have that much problems. To be sucsessful in pvp at t8 is all about iteams and sure the class has a big part in it too.</p>

[Slow]

The only things i hate whit eq2 pvp is: Evac,Immunity,Running,Hugging,TRACK [Removed for Content] BIG TIME!, and alot more, and yea its kinda sad wizzys get out dpsed by fighters doesnt make much sense to me. and scouts being the strongest class in pve and pvp? whit track and evac? 1k autoattack? 2k range autoattack? crit some more and its double !? REMOVE TRACK,EVAC,IMMUNITY (even city immnunity but if u die in a city u wont loose any coin or items. only imo dont care about city immune if u dont like the idea) AND FIX THE RESISTS!!!!

[Amphibia]

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Other than that, why must bards be the fastest other than legacy?</blockquote>I've wondered that too. Why should bards be faster than everyone else? Just because they were super-fast in EQ1? This isn't EQ1. Reminds me of that tired, old "Bring back the beastlords!" -debate.... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[convict]

<cite>Jinky@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Brimestar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like someone who didn't make it or enjoy T8 pvp so created a twinked locked toon who is slowly leveling....And I have also heard that Venekor is in its death throws again....</blockquote><p>no mate, ive got a 74 necro and a 78 Defiler, as well as several other classes, i never locked any of my toons, but i have just returned from a break of several months, to discover, that whilst 12-16 months ago, classes, although out of balance, genrally had a decent chance against any of the the other classes, now , this is not the case.</p><p>Monks out running bards, ==== A joke</p><p>fighter classes out dpsing wizzards===== A joke</p><p>Scouts generally out dpsing everyone ==== a joke</p><p>And, over the last few weeks, resist rates have gone through the roof , generally.</p><p>I would say that pvp is un-balanced, i would also say, with regards to ROK, pve is also becoming un-balanced, where some classes cant solo mobs their on lvl, becuase of the interupts and scout like auto attacks they have gained.</p><p>For pvp to be fun, there has to be at minimum a chance of surviving the first few seconds of pvp, sadly for many, this isnt the case. Whilst it does seem that the majority of the population may have to roll these God Classes to compete, many simply will not, and what are you going to do when you have no "softer" classes to kill, prolly spend all day running about evacing from each other, like most scouts generally do when they pick up another scout on track.</p><p>Many good players are simply lost to others games, not just because, as you say, some servers are light on population, but also because the developers seem not to address the issues concerned with the classes they play.</p></blockquote>wow.. Good post..

[Norrsken]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Other than that, why must bards be the fastest other than legacy?</blockquote>I've wondered that too. Why should bards be faster than everyone else? Just because they were super-fast in EQ1? This isn't EQ1. Reminds me of that tired, old "Bring back the beastlords!" -debate.... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </blockquote>I would laugh so hard if they brought them back and made them the gimpiest class int he game, but their one class defining ability were that they were fastest in norrath. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Slow]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Other than that, why must bards be the fastest other than legacy?</blockquote>I've wondered that too. Why should bards be faster than everyone else? Just because they were super-fast in EQ1? This isn't EQ1. Reminds me of that tired, old "Bring back the beastlords!" -debate.... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </blockquote> Cus its harder to catch us <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Guillati]

Coming from an eq1, VG, DaOc perspective....<div>I don't see a reason why bards ARENT the fastest class in the game. Also considering that this is still part of the EverQuest timeline.</div><div></div>

[valkyriepc]

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jinky@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Brimestar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like someone who didn't make it or enjoy T8 pvp so created a twinked locked toon who is slowly leveling....And I have also heard that Venekor is in its death throws again....</blockquote><p>no mate, ive got a 74 necro and a 78 Defiler, as well as several other classes, i never locked any of my toons, but i have just returned from a break of several months, to discover, that whilst 12-16 months ago, classes, although out of balance, genrally had a decent chance against any of the the other classes, now , this is not the case.</p><p>Monks out running bards, ==== A joke</p><p>fighter classes out dpsing wizzards===== A joke</p><p>Scouts generally out dpsing everyone ==== a joke</p><p>And, over the last few weeks, resist rates have gone through the roof , generally.</p><p>I would say that pvp is un-balanced, i would also say, with regards to ROK, pve is also becoming un-balanced, where some classes cant solo mobs their on lvl, becuase of the interupts and scout like auto attacks they have gained.</p><p>For pvp to be fun, there has to be at minimum a chance of surviving the first few seconds of pvp, sadly for many, this isnt the case. Whilst it does seem that the majority of the population may have to roll these God Classes to compete, many simply will not, and what are you going to do when you have no "softer" classes to kill, prolly spend all day running about evacing from each other, like most scouts generally do when they pick up another scout on track.</p><p>Many good players are simply lost to others games, not just because, as you say, some servers are light on population, but also because the developers seem not to address the issues concerned with the classes they play.</p></blockquote>you know, my necro could solo mobs above his level before rok. triple up heroic nameds. That part of pve aint new. Might just have shifted classes that can do it. Other than that, why must bards be the fastest other than legacy?CAnd is it in pvp or pve that tanks are outdpsing wizards? Because if its pve the wizzy needs to learn to pres sbuttons tbh. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>The soothing calm of a delightful melody whilst traveling upon the roughest of roads can take months off the travel time. Or so it seems atleast. Ok enough [Removed for Content] aside. Bards are bards are bards. Magical lute and music, not much else they really have going for em. So travel speed has always been a defining ability of a bard. Sure, this isn't vanguard, eq1 or w/e else game that has super fast bards. But even in eq2, really what other utility in group pvp or even pve do bards really bring to the table? some increase to dps for melee, maybe a charm or mez? You know what bards bring to the table in eq2? A pretty nice rez and a health transfer.<div></div><div>And the same question, why should any class have access to a totem that runs faster than a bard that to compete with a mere totem has to spend atleast 8 aa points in a specific tree. And why should a monk run faster than a bard?</div>

[Norrsken]

<cite>valkyriepc wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jinky@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Brimestar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like someone who didn't make it or enjoy T8 pvp so created a twinked locked toon who is slowly leveling....And I have also heard that Venekor is in its death throws again....</blockquote><p>no mate, ive got a 74 necro and a 78 Defiler, as well as several other classes, i never locked any of my toons, but i have just returned from a break of several months, to discover, that whilst 12-16 months ago, classes, although out of balance, genrally had a decent chance against any of the the other classes, now , this is not the case.</p><p>Monks out running bards, ==== A joke</p><p>fighter classes out dpsing wizzards===== A joke</p><p>Scouts generally out dpsing everyone ==== a joke</p><p>And, over the last few weeks, resist rates have gone through the roof , generally.</p><p>I would say that pvp is un-balanced, i would also say, with regards to ROK, pve is also becoming un-balanced, where some classes cant solo mobs their on lvl, becuase of the interupts and scout like auto attacks they have gained.</p><p>For pvp to be fun, there has to be at minimum a chance of surviving the first few seconds of pvp, sadly for many, this isnt the case. Whilst it does seem that the majority of the population may have to roll these God Classes to compete, many simply will not, and what are you going to do when you have no "softer" classes to kill, prolly spend all day running about evacing from each other, like most scouts generally do when they pick up another scout on track.</p><p>Many good players are simply lost to others games, not just because, as you say, some servers are light on population, but also because the developers seem not to address the issues concerned with the classes they play.</p></blockquote>you know, my necro could solo mobs above his level before rok. triple up heroic nameds. That part of pve aint new. Might just have shifted classes that can do it. Other than that, why must bards be the fastest other than legacy?CAnd is it in pvp or pve that tanks are outdpsing wizards? Because if its pve the wizzy needs to learn to pres sbuttons tbh. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>The soothing calm of a delightful melody whilst traveling upon the roughest of roads can take months off the travel time. Or so it seems atleast. Ok enough [Removed for Content] aside. Bards are bards are bards. Magical lute and music, not much else they really have going for em. So travel speed has always been a defining ability of a bard. Sure, this isn't vanguard, eq1 or w/e else game that has super fast bards. But even in eq2, really what other utility in group pvp or even pve do bards really bring to the table? some increase to dps for melee, maybe a charm or mez? You know what bards bring to the table in eq2? A pretty nice rez and a health transfer.<div></div><div>And the same question, why should any class have access to a totem that runs faster than a bard that to compete with a mere totem has to spend atleast 8 aa points in a specific tree. And why should a monk run faster than a bard?</div></blockquote>Completely disregarding the DnD (and other RPGs) legacy  I would say bards would have a lot of other things they could do that were rather surprising and lethal if they felt like it, tricksters and storytellers as they were. Apart from capable of playing a variety of instruments and singing. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Faenril]

Regarding bards... From a lore perspective I think their class defining ability is probably singing/playing music, not running fast (or at least running "the fastest"). So what can you do with songs in general ? - Probably buffing 1st (songs motivate troups) - Probably debuffing too, in a symmetrical way. - Some DPS ? Some songs are a pain to hear, I could imagine they physically hurt <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Crowd control ? Easy to imagine you can mesmerize somebody with a song (ever heard of sirens?) - Running fast would probably come last in that list... That being said I agree it is a bit stupid that you can outrun most classes bufs, or even the best mounts, with a simple totem...I run faster with Chokidai totem and a few run speed items/AAs/traits stacked, than with the best mount I could get ... Why pay 20 plats or more for the mount then ?

[Norrsken]

<cite>Faerie@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Regarding bards... From a lore perspective I think their class defining ability is probably singing/playing music, not running fast (or at least running "the fastest&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. So what can you do with songs in general ? - Probably buffing 1st (songs motivate troups) - Probably debuffing too, in a symmetrical way. - Some DPS ? Some songs are a pain to hear, I could imagine they physically hurt <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> - Crowd control ? Easy to imagine you can mesmerize somebody with a song (ever heard of sirens?) - Running fast would probably come last in that list... That being said I agree it is a bit stupid that you can outrun most classes bufs, or even the best mounts, with a simple totem...I run faster with Chokidai totem and a few run speed items/AAs/traits stacked, than with the best mount I could get ... Why pay 20 plats or more for the mount then ?</blockquote>especially when mounts dont work in dungeons, so, why pay plats for inferior runspeed buffs that arent as fast? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />