A new shadow knight with a few too many questions.

[Angelic]

Good evening, morning, whichever is most befitting.Currently I am a up and coming shadow knight that has been doing decently I suppose, at least while my computer allows. My gear is master crafted, and my abilities are for the most part of the master variants, which is fortunate. I am still relatively new to the game though, but have given a few of my guild mates a good impression of my ability to tank.That being said, the guild is not all that large, nor is it really an end game sort. Their current main tank evidently has not been doing so well so they have decided to try another. My name came into question, despite both my class and… newness? Anyhow, I was wonder how I might best perform within my given role, and what would be expected of me.One problem I have been having is targeting and casting, especially in the case of multiple encounters. Usually when everyone is assisting me there is not a problem, but every so often there is an off hit to something else, or simply monsters forgoing me for either a healer of someone using area of effect abilities. Damage oriented classes I can simply select them via the F# keys and see what they were attacking, and taunt/cast upon that to regain hate. Healers however tend to have someone else targeting, and it can at times be a pain to figure out just what is hitting them specifically, or even simply targeting it. Also, seeing as how people sometimes are assisting me no matter what I target tabbing through monsters has proven dangerous as well as inefficient (often times resulting in adds). What do you usually do? Is there some trick, or keys I am ignoring?Feign death is another issue. Even though I have a macro added to it explaining to use /stand to cancel it I have had all too many people lay down and remain inactive utterly confused.For variants of Intercept I tend to have one or two buttons for a couple key group mates likely to steal hate, or pullers, is there a better way of managing this without de-selecting my main target and using a F# key?Defensive stance is my primary group stance, I figured it was best to focus on negating as much damage as I can rather than doing a bit more myself, but it seems many prefer offensive stance and it seems to work well for them. As I rise in level is keeping hate going to be enough of an issue to keep me from using my defensive stances?Casting feign death on myself always seems unwise even near the brink of death, should I have faith in my healers generally to pop off that much needed heal or should I typically feign death, regain some health, and fight for hate again?Vile coil and the heal component I can add to it via alternative abilities… is it worth it? I can bypass it by investing in alternative trees, and have done so currently… does it scale better in later levels?Reaver do you tend to leave it up? Should I do so while main tanking? Seems to worry the healers some even while I am casting without end.That brings me to my last question I suppose (for now), am I going to develop mana issues eventually? I spam my abilities without end and only in the lengthier fights do I even come close to running dry (I suppose good food has done me good though).Thank you for your time and consideration, please pardon both my ignorance and my curiosity.Dee

[Razlath]

<cite>Angelic wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>That being said, the guild is not all that large, nor is it really an end game sort. Their current main tank evidently has not been doing so well so they have decided to try another. My name came into question, despite both my class and… newness? Anyhow, I was wonder how I might best perform within my given role, and what would be expected of me.</p></blockquote><p>Congratulations on making a good impression.  I am not sure if you are asking what the role of a MT is in a group or the role of a primary MT in a guild.  I will endeavour to answer both.  I am the guild leader and primary MT in my guild as well, and we are a fairly small guild though we are trying to grow.</p><p>In a group the MT usually sets the pace of the group.  Pulling techniques are very important.  Some groups like to use a diff puller, but I have found that to be annoying at times.  No one knows when your abils are up but you.  It really sucks when the puller comes running back with a mob and all your taunts are down because the last fight lasted a little longer than expected.  If you can keep the pulls coming quickly chances are no one will ask for a diff puller.  You will be expected to keep an eye on everyone's health, power, and position / status.  You have to keep track of who is AFK, what that means for move speed, how much power the healer has, how much you have, are the DPSers dry, etc.  You also have to watch what buffs are on you from the healer depending on the type.  If the group reactive / ward / regen is up on you and flashing, let it expire before pulling.  The recast timers on those could make it unfortunate if it fails just as you pull.  Other than that, basically your job is to keep the mob(s) focused on you, and the party moving.  Body pull when in doubt, and don't be afraid to range pull when necessary.  Communicate regularly with your group about where you are pulling to, or if a named is coming up.</p><p>For the guild, the primary MT for the guild is often the person asked all the questions related to tanking or running groups.  Often you also set the mood of the guild so you don't want to be a downer too much.  This may be more true because I am also leader, but guilds look to their primary tanks just like groups look to their tanks.  You will probably also end up organizing a lot of groups.  It establishes a leadership of the group right away if the tank puts it together.  The biggest thing is if everyone thinks you are a great tank, they will wnat advice on how they can be great too.  Don't be afraid to be honest if you don't know an answer and give whatever advice you can.</p><blockquote><p>One problem I have been having is targeting and casting, especially in the case of multiple encounters. Usually when everyone is assisting me there is not a problem, but every so often there is an off hit to something else, or simply monsters forgoing me for either a healer of someone using area of effect abilities. Damage oriented classes I can simply select them via the F# keys and see what they were attacking, and taunt/cast upon that to regain hate. Healers however tend to have someone else targeting, and it can at times be a pain to figure out just what is hitting them specifically, or even simply targeting it. Also, seeing as how people sometimes are assisting me no matter what I target tabbing through monsters has proven dangerous as well as inefficient (often times resulting in adds). What do you usually do? Is there some trick, or keys I am ignoring?</p></blockquote><p>When possible use your PBAoEs when you see an add come up.  Usually this will give you the intial aggro you need to get it hitting you, and after that you are building a little hate each time it strikes.  We get a LOT of PBAoEs so with good positioning keeping aggro shouldn't be a problem.  Also, be sure you are using an assist me button when there are multiple non-linked mobs.  Basically make a button that says asssist me with %t.  Hit it if you ever have to switch targets or if you think peeps are hitting the wrong thing.  This will cause most peeps to check their target and re-assist just in case.  I have often found that sometimes peeps get confused when an add comes up and I have to retarget for a short time.  The assist me button seems to help with that.  Another good thing is move so the mob is right in front of you and just target nearest.  Then wack it in the head and drag it back so that all mobs are facing you and not the party.  Once you get back, find your original mob (through target nearest, or target next) and hit that assist me button again to be sure everyone is on the same page.</p><p>In regards to your targetting a non-engaged mob problem the best thing I can say is use a short range effect such as a taunt or kick for a targetted attack.  Then if you are targetting the wrong thing at least you won't pull it.  ;}</p><p>Last of all, I usually suggest that the party not target through me.  I explain that I will often have to switch targets to maintain aggro and I want hte party to focus on what I originally target and not move with me.  If they really need to target through, designate a main assist.  If this is a person you trust and who plays well this will often keep the DPSers from nuking too early.  The MA doesn't target until the mobs are positioned and therefore the peeps targetting through have no target.  I have seen this be effective on pickup groups when I just couldn't get those DPSers to stop nuking before the mob even moved.</p><blockquote><p>Feign death is another issue. Even though I have a macro added to it explaining to use /stand to cancel it I have had all too many people lay down and remain inactive utterly confused.For variants of Intercept I tend to have one or two buttons for a couple key group mates likely to steal hate, or pullers, is there a better way of managing this without de-selecting my main target and using a F# key?</p></blockquote><p>Some peeps just don't understand.  If it has gotten to the point of me FDing someone I usually don't want them to stand back up, so haven't really had trouble.  I just explain after the fight is over that they were drawing WAY too much aggro, rescue is down, HT, is down, and I had no choice but to put them on the floor or risk further split of healing.</p><p>I rarely use intercept so I can't really add much there sorry.  Mostly I use it when the mob I am targetting has slipped and therefore it just targets through anyway.</p><blockquote><p>Defensive stance is my primary group stance, I figured it was best to focus on negating as much damage as I can rather than doing a bit more myself, but it seems many prefer offensive stance and it seems to work well for them. As I rise in level is keeping hate going to be enough of an issue to keep me from using my defensive stances?</p></blockquote>I always stand in Defensive unless I am DPSing.  I like the added absorption, though I hope some of the changes suggested here for our defensive stance go through.  Basically you are doing it for the hate mod and the armor increase not the WIS.  I try to keep armor and items that increase slashing so I dont' feel the effects of the negative too much.  I have also run the WIS line of AAs to further mitigate the penalty.  I now have green slashing skill while standing in Defensive so it has worked out well for me.  I don't have much trouble with Aggro unless someone is really trying to take it from me.<blockquote><p>Casting feign death on myself always seems unwise even near the brink of death, should I have faith in my healers generally to pop off that much needed heal or should I typically feign death, regain some health, and fight for hate again?</p></blockquote>Trust in the healer, the healer is good.  ;}  Seriously I always trust my healers.  Now if the situation is complete crap IE 5 adds mowing through the party, smack that FD on someone, and it doesn't even matter who.  If the whole thing has really gone south, I will run to a spot I remember no mobs standing and hit FD on my target.  Sometimes that is me, sometimes it is someone else.  One thing to note, if you FD someones pet you accomplish nothing, so make a quick check before smacking it.  ;}  If all esle fails hit your target self and FD.  This is esepcially true when deep in a dungeon as it can save considerable time assuming your healer handed out rez tokens.  If they didn't, kick their corpse, and evac to join the rest of your group.  ;}<blockquote><p>Vile coil and the heal component I can add to it via alternative abilities… is it worth it? I can bypass it by investing in alternative trees, and have done so currently… does it scale better in later levels?Reaver do you tend to leave it up? Should I do so while main tanking? Seems to worry the healers some even while I am casting without end.</p></blockquote><p>AAs are a real sticky point.  I would suggest reading some of the recent posts on AAs and then coming to your own conclusion.  I am not a fan of laying other's AA templates on yourself.  We all play differently with different peeps.  If you have a regular coercer in your groups then maybe the hate mod isn't useful from some of the AAs, if not, then maybe it is.  If your group tends to be DPS light then perhaps you need more DPS, or perhaps your answer is to increase surviveability.  The biggest shame to me is that we can't try out our respecs for a few days before they "stick".</p><p>To answer your specific questions.  When running the reaver line I added max amount to our self reactive, and added LT components at minimums wherever I could.  The coil LT never gets amazing, but is steady health flowing in, and it lasts after a combat as well.  It looks like crap at first due to the low return, and it will never be stellar, but those points have to go somewhere.  ;}  I leave Reaver up constantly after the most recent change to extend the time between health loss.  I have yet to run any tests to see if my HPS justifies the loss of HP, but it feels like it does.  If you have an o-crap button it might be beneficial to include a turn off of reaver in that button to stop the health siphon if you or your healers feel it is making things difficult.</p><blockquote><p>That brings me to my last question I suppose (for now), am I going to develop mana issues eventually? I spam my abilities without end and only in the lengthier fights do I even come close to running dry (I suppose good food has done me good though).Thank you for your time and consideration, please pardon both my ignorance and my curiosity.Dee</p></blockquote><p>I can't speak for others, but power is always my enemy.  I never have enough solo or duo.  In a group I have a coercer who is a regular group mate so it isn't too mcuh trouble there.  In a full group the mobs just don't last long enough to tap your power reservers.  I was in a group last night with myself, an inquis, coecer, 2 necros, and a dirge.  The mobs died so fast no one could get below 80% power on a single mob, and we never had an OOP moment even though we chained some adds with rezzes and whatnot thrown in.  A lot of that has to do with the coercer I am sure, but the DPS output of that group was insane.  And yet they never jerked aggro from me.  Was truly an amazing group especially since it was a PUG.</p><p>I hope those answers help you some, I don't claim to be an expert, but I have been playing my SK for a long time now and those are my experiences.  No pardons needed, I will probably learn something from answers given to you by others, so the questions benefit us all.</p>

[Mathafern]

Multiple encounters:  Position yourself away from the group, including other melee- one way to do this is make the pull, run to the group (to bring the mobs to the group) and then move away from the group- this will turn the mobs and keep them between you and your group- if one turns away from you you know to swap to it as a target and taunt.  On groups, use your AoEs, and have people target through you.  Once you get Death March you can use it as a group rescue as well. You shouldn't target your group members in a fight.  They should target YOU, or at least assist you with a macro. /assist mathafern This gives them YOUR target. If people can't figure out how to stand up after FD, they're better off staying down. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm level 80 running t8 instances- I use defensive stance and have no aggro problems.  If the instance is trivial enough (like CoA) I switch to offensive stance on the trash mobs. If you're main tanking you're the captain of the ship, go down with it.  Don't FD yourself.  If you're off tanking FDing yourself is a great survival strategy- though the squishies may be next on the hate list <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I've gone with the heal component in vile coil.  If nothing else the healing should give me extra aggro. Reaver- yes you can leave it up. Yes you will develop mana issues.  Illusionists are your friends.

[Hamervelder]

<cite>Mathafern@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Multiple encounters:  Position yourself away from the group, including other melee- one way to do this is make the pull, run to the group (to bring the mobs to the group) and then move away from the group- this will turn the mobs and keep them between you and your group- if one turns away from you you know to swap to it as a target and taunt.  On groups, use your AoEs, and have people target through you.  Once you get Death March you can use it as a group rescue as well. You shouldn't target your group members in a fight.  They should target YOU, or at least assist you with a macro. /assist mathafern This gives them YOUR target. If people can't figure out how to stand up after FD, they're better off staying down. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> I'm level 80 running t8 instances- I use defensive stance and have no aggro problems.  If the instance is trivial enough (like CoA) I switch to offensive stance on the trash mobs. If you're main tanking you're the captain of the ship, go down with it.  Don't FD yourself.  If you're off tanking FDing yourself is a great survival strategy- though the squishies may be next on the hate list <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> I've gone with the heal component in vile coil.  If nothing else the healing should give me extra aggro. Reaver- yes you can leave it up. Yes you will develop mana issues.  Illusionists are your friends. </blockquote>This is very, very good advice.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 

[idropdimes]

<p>I'm in offensive stance whether i'm main tank or not.  Due to the int buff in offensive stance to help with the dps of your spells.  As far as targeting goes, i change my camera angle so that my tab only targets whats on my screen, otherwise i manually click what i wanna target so i dont hit the wrong mob.  </p>