Befallen

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>I know that before the arrival of Gynok Moltar, that Befallen had been an outpost for the Order of Marr's Fist.  </p><p>What I am curious about is just what it's name was *before* it was cursed and became what we now call Befallen?</p><p>I have scoured the EQ Live lore boards for any clues, and can find none.  Likewise, I have bought the EQ pen and paper RPG module that deals with Befallen, and found nothing there either.</p><p>EQoA has a large structure that looks to be roughly in the correct spot for where Befallen is located, and in that game they refer to it as The Temple of Light.</p><p>Does anyone have any more precise information on Befallen's original name?</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Hmmm... You know, I don't believe it has ever been stated.</p><p>According to the Maps of Myrist, many elves believe it to be the ancient city of Takish'Hiz. Others believe it to be an ancient citadel of Mithanial Marr. There is no evidence to prove one way or the other.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>Well, we know from the LDoN expansion where the ruins of Takish 'Hiz are located, so it couldn't be the ruins of Takish 'Hiz.  It may at one time have been an outpost along the northern edge of the Elddar Forest and therefore technically a part of the Takish 'Hiz Empire, but certainly not a part of the capital city.</p><p>I seem to remember some official lore revolving around the Bone-Bladed Claymore that states that it was the Paladins of Marr that found Gynok wandering about the Commonlands, mad as a hatter, and brought him (and the curse) into their citadel.</p><p>The back story about Stormhold might provide a clue though.  </p><p>If Lord Chesgard became *SO* obsessed with Befallen as to copy it's architecture (down to the grafetti) for the building of Stormhold (yes, I know it's a weak premise invented to 'justify' the inclusion of Stormhold in Antonica), might he also have copied some form of the name?</p><p>Perhaps 'Valorhold' or some other Marr related theme? </p><p>[and please, folks, I really don't want to hear any suggestions about it being referred to as the 'LoveShack'!!--- pretty please??--with sugar/--and a cherry?]</p>

[Rabid-Othmir]

<img src="http://www.lvmarathon.com/uploads/pics/loveshack.jpg" alt="" border="0" />

[teddyboy4]

There is MUCH speculation as to what the structure now known as Befallen was used for before the curse fell upon it. I don't think it's full history has ever been revealed, but the most prevalent stories and theories say that it was either a Temple of, one or both of, the Marr Twins OR an outpost/fort of the Elven kingdom of Takish'Hiz. I personally think that the truth is probably a mix of both. I think that the structure started out as a Northern outpost for the Elves of Takish'Hiz to watch their borders, but after the fall of that kingdom and the death of the forest it was probably abandoned and restored some years later as an outpost of the Knights of Truth or Love.

[Wilde_Night]

<p>Actually, official lore of Stormhold is that Lord Chesgard seized the Bone Bladed Claymore from Befallen during an excursion, that eventually lead to the cave-in of the dungeon, which is cursed with Gynok's spirit.</p><p>The sword and Gynok eventually drove the Lord insane and in the process of this slow insanity, he build Stormhold.  Later he was totally taken over by the spirit of Gynok (hence the reason the name is written on various walls around the dungeon) and became trapped in his own creation, much like Gynok.</p>

[Dragonir]

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I know that before the arrival of Gynok Moltar, that Befallen had been an outpost for the Order of Marr's Fist.  </p><p>What I am curious about is just what it's name was *before* it was cursed and became what we now call Befallen?</p><p>I have scoured the EQ Live lore boards for any clues, and can find none.  Likewise, I have bought the EQ pen and paper RPG module that deals with Befallen, and found nothing there either.</p><p>EQoA has a large structure that looks to be roughly in the correct spot for where Befallen is located, and in that game they refer to it as The Temple of Light.</p><p>Does anyone have any more precise information on Befallen's original name?</p></blockquote>Hmmm I remember talking to others from the Age of Enlightenment it does seem that the Old Temple of Light "The Marr's Fist", is near the correct spot. It was known as both names... Marr's Fist and the Temple of Light.. some called it one title others called it another.From playing EQoA I remember traveling there and to the ruins (above ground) of Takish'Hiz, and the 2 ruined out posts of Al-Farak, and Al-Karad, from if i remember the old Elddar Empire. The Marrs Fist (temple of light) looked much different more of the fortress much as we see Stormhold today. So while its possible it was an old outpost of the Elddar age, I'd have to see proof before i buy into that theory.

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>My *theory* is that when Ardathium fell, (as related in the 6 volumes on Ardathium from EQ Live), that the refugees from that place made their way north through the shrivilling Elddar Forest to the area of Aros 'Thalinor (the Rosethorn Spire).</p><p>This was, (according to EQoA lore), a Tower of Wizardry that pre-dated the Elddar Empire of Takish 'Hiz, but was found abandoned taken over and used by them.  During this period of time it too fell and became the Spectre Tower in Oasis that we know from EQ Live and EQ2.</p><p>Likely it was also the arrival of the refugees from Ardathium that also gave Oasis it's namesake, The Oasis of Marr.</p><p>Either these followers of Marr, or a different group from Ardathium, (or both--or they were the same group), eventually made their way north to the edge of the Commonlands where they established a new base, (this time at the northern edge of what had been the Elddar Forest), which is the Befallen we know.</p><p>When Befallen became cursed by taking in Gynok, the survivors were once again forced to relocate (this time to the Castle Val 'Marr in the Commonlands.</p><p>Either by force or by choice, (probably the former considering the ruins are haunted by the restless spirits of the dead), Castle Val 'Marr was also abandoned.</p><p>As Freeport evolved from Landing, the followers of Marr relocated once more to North Freeport.  While on the Crusade of Tears to Faydwer (to lift the curse laid upon the Hills of Shade by Erollisi),  Sir Lucan was left in charge, and began to enlist mercenaries into the Freeport militia to help protect the city.</p><p>It was also during this time that the outpost at Tearfall was established.</p><p>[As an aside, does the Crusade of Tears take it's name from the Ocean of Tears, or does the Ocean of Tears take it's name from the Crusade, or from the Hejira of the Elves out of Tunaria to Faydwer?]</p><p>He was opposed in this action by some of the other remaining Knights, and killed one in anger, thereby causing Mithaniel Marr to withdraw his blessing from Lucan.</p><p>The rest of the story is fairly well known.</p><p>It does seem as if the followers of Marr have been hounded and harried their entire existence.  From Ardathium to the Oasis of Marr.  From the Oasis of Marr to Befallen.  From Befallen to Castle Val 'Marr.  From Castle Val 'Marr to Freeport.  And now from Freeport to Qeynos and Lionheart.</p><p>Of course all of this is just an educated guess, and really does not address the original question, What was Befallen called before it became cursed.</p><p>I think probably it will have to fall to Vahlar to make the final choice.</p>

[goldfeesh641]

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>My *theory* is that when Ardathium fell, (as related in the 6 volumes on Ardathium from EQ Live), that the refugees from that place made their way north through the shrivilling Elddar Forest to the area of Aros 'Thalinor (the Rosethorn Spire).</p><p>This was, (according to EQoA lore), a Tower of Wizardry that pre-dated the Elddar Empire of Takish 'Hiz, but was found abandoned taken over and used by them.  During this period of time it too fell and became the Spectre Tower in Oasis that we know from EQ Live and EQ2.</p><p>Likely it was also the arrival of the refugees from Ardathium that also gave Oasis it's namesake, The Oasis of Marr.</p><p>Either these followers of Marr, or a different group from Ardathium, (or both--or they were the same group), eventually made their way north to the edge of the Commonlands where they established a new base, (this time at the northern edge of what had been the Elddar Forest), which is the Befallen we know.</p><p>When Befallen became cursed by taking in Gynok, the survivors were once again forced to relocate (this time to the Castle Val 'Marr in the Commonlands.</p><p>Either by force or by choice, (probably the former considering the ruins are haunted by the restless spirits of the dead), Castle Val 'Marr was also abandoned.</p><p>As Freeport evolved from Landing, the followers of Marr relocated once more to North Freeport.  While on the Crusade of Tears to Faydwer (to lift the curse laid upon the Hills of Shade by Erollisi),  Sir Lucan was left in charge, and began to enlist mercenaries into the Freeport militia to help protect the city.</p><p>It was also during this time that the outpost at Tearfall was established.</p><p>[As an aside, does the Crusade of Tears take it's name from the Ocean of Tears, or does the Ocean of Tears take it's name from the Crusade, or from the Hejira of the Elves out of Tunaria to Faydwer?]</p><p>He was opposed in this action by some of the other remaining Knights, and killed one in anger, thereby causing Mithaniel Marr to withdraw his blessing from Lucan.</p><p>The rest of the story is fairly well known.</p><p>It does seem as if the followers of Marr have been hounded and harried their entire existence.  From Ardathium to the Oasis of Marr.  From the Oasis of Marr to Befallen.  From Befallen to Castle Val 'Marr.  From Castle Val 'Marr to Freeport.  And now from Freeport to Qeynos and Lionheart.</p><p>Of course all of this is just an educated guess, and really does not address the original question, What was Befallen called before it became cursed.</p><p>I think probably it will have to fall to Vahlar to make the final choice.</p></blockquote>Just a bit of an aside, the Oasis of Marr is named for Tarew Marr, the member of the Triumverate of water who holds dominion over liquid water...

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>I have heard that Oasis was named after Tarew Marr as well, but do not know if this is based on some lore source, or is merely conjecture.</p><p>Absent any evidence to the contrary, I tend to reject that explanation, as an Oasis in the midst of a desert, (that used to be a forest), seems an unlikely area for one of the Triumvirate of Water to bless.</p>

[Miladi]

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have heard that Oasis was named after Tarew Marr as well, but do not know if this is based on some lore source, or is merely conjecture.</p><p>Absent any evidence to the contrary, I tend to reject that explanation, as an Oasis in the midst of a desert, (that used to be a forest), seems an unlikely area for one of the Triumvirate of Water to bless.</p></blockquote>Oasis may have been in the desert, but it was also located next to the ocean in EQ1, so it might have standing as to being named after Tarew Marr. As this could have also been a fresh water oasis for sea-going travellers as well as land based ones.

[Jindrack]

The original name for Befallen was Marrsfist Keep, built by Lord William Taros and The Order of Marr's Fist, a sub caste of the Knights of Truth.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Jindrack wrote:</cite><blockquote>The original name for Befallen was Marrsfist Keep, built by Lord William Taros and The Order of Marr's Fist, a sub caste of the Knights of Truth.</blockquote>Yay! Thank you Jindrack. We've been wondering about that since EQlive started.

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>I had hoped to fill in some missing pieces, and this is wonderful!  Thank-you so much, it is truly appreciated!</p><p>/bows</p>

[Mayl]

<p>Side note, but still.   What is with the locked door on the top flight of the dungeon?  It is on the left side as you first walk in.   I know in eq1, you need a rogue to pick locks and travel thru the zone.  Wonder if this is just a little shout out to eq1 or an old plan where scouts would be used to open doors in eq2.   I know they inserted the made up lore to cover for how SH is now Befallen, but still..</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>I've always wondered about that myself.  </p><p>I think it was placed there (originally) to be used for some future content like an adventure pack.</p><p>Back when Stormhold was originally supposed to be Befallen, there were stories of the Knights of Truth going to Befallen after the Battle of Defiance.</p><p>Vhalen or Jindrack hinted around that *something*was going on at Befallen that involved the Knights.  Perhaps that door would have answered the question.</p><p>Now that Befallen is no longer slated for inclusion in the game, (that I know of), the door will have to serve some other purpose related to Stormhold.</p><p>At any rate I doubt we will get a peek behind it any time soon; we're still missing Odus, Velious, and the Underfoot.  I am sure that they will take precedence over our mysterious locked door. </p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>There were 4 doors in the first floor of Befallen in EQlive. I remember the one that is sealed up in Stormhold was one of the 4 rooms you had to clear in order to get a key to advance to the lower levels.</p><p>Obviously, there's nothing behind it in Stormhold, or there was something designed to be put there, but at least the door is there as it was in Befallen.</p>

[Powers]

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It does seem as if the followers of Marr have been hounded and harried their entire existence.  From Ardathium to the Oasis of Marr.  From the Oasis of Marr to Befallen.  From Befallen to Castle Val 'Marr.  From Castle Val 'Marr to Freeport.  And now from Freeport to Qeynos and Lionheart. </p></blockquote>I know where the Ruins of Val'Marr are in EQ2, but I don't remember seeing them in EQL.  Are they visible at all?  I'd been thinking that Val'Marr was a temporary place that the followers of the twins regrouped before having to move on to Qeynos.And what's Lionheart?Powers  &8^]

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Powers wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It does seem as if the followers of Marr have been hounded and harried their entire existence.  From Ardathium to the Oasis of Marr.  From the Oasis of Marr to Befallen.  From Befallen to Castle Val 'Marr.  From Castle Val 'Marr to Freeport.  And now from Freeport to Qeynos and Lionheart. </p></blockquote>I know where the Ruins of Val'Marr are in EQ2, but I don't remember seeing them in EQL.  Are they visible at all?  I'd been thinking that Val'Marr was a temporary place that the followers of the twins regrouped before having to move on to Qeynos.And what's Lionheart?Powers  &8^]</blockquote><p>I need to brush up on my Commonlands history, but I think Val'Marr was the fortress that what few remaining members of the Knights of Marr established after Lucan took over the city in the last 500 years.</p><p>At any rate, it is mentioned that there are landmarks in EQ2 that were around during EQlive, but were not visually present in EQlive.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>From Bootstrutter's Guide to the Commonlands:</p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;"><b><u>The Wall of Taros:</u></b> </span></p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;">The Wall of Taros is one of the most ancient monuments that can be found in the Commonlands. Built ages ago in the Age of Enlightenment by the Order of Marr's Fist the wall once proudly ran the entirety of the midsection of the region, defending against the hostile eastern borderland. It was built to assist the knights in either defending the land or as I theorize, lay claim to this territory. It was named after the High Lord William Taros and stood proudly until the end of the age when the Order of Marr's Fist vanished from existence. Ruins of the great wall can be found just west of Lucan's Mount.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;"><b><u>The Ruins of Val 'Marr:</u></b> </span></p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;">The Ruins of Val 'Marr are all that is left of Castle Val 'Marr, built during the Age of Enlightenment to house the various orders of Erollisi and Mithaniel Marr disciples. From this castle sprang the Church of the Marr Twins, The Order of Marr's Fist and others. Much of the ruins has been stripped for it's resources, but you can still see the shape of the once mighty nest of valor. A new addition has been the 'Cavalier' statue that has been dragged here by knights no doubt who consider this to be a most sacred place bordering the dark city of Freeport.</span></p><p>This may be considered official lore since it comes from both developers and an in-game source.  In addition, because these structures date all the way back to the Age of Enlightenment, they predate EQ Live and therefore must be considered to have been there during that era as well.  And yet they certainly were nowhere to be seen in EQ Live.</p><p>This is one of the traps that occurs when lore is retro-conned from one game to the other.  How can it have existed for centuries (perhaps millenia) prior to Eq Live, go missing from EQ Live, and then re-appear in EQ2.  Similar occurances happenwd with EQoA and EQ2.  Some bit of lore will firsrt appear (chronologically speaking) in EQoA, be lost in EQ Live, and then reappear in EQ2.</p><p>There are other examples as well.  All we can do as players, is suspend disbelief, and accept the contradictions.  Over an extended period of time, as both games, (as well as other quasi-official spin-offs), add more content, these types of things will probably continue and perhaps escalate.</p><p>There is really no way to avoid it I fear.  I am willing to accept the new content (even if it seems contradictory) and try to find a rationale explanation, (or perhaps a 'reasonable' explanation is a better word), than to have the designers feel boxed in and afraid to deal with past story lines for fear of stepping onto one of these little 'lore landmines'</p>

[Cusashorn]

Despite the inconsistencies, I find it plausible that we would never find some of these locations. After all, the zones themselves only represent a portion of how large the geographic area really could be as according to the designers.

[Jindrack]

To clarify a bit on the inconsistencies, there was tons of information and lore created when EverQuest was first designed.  Because of various normal reasons that game design regulary encounters (time, tech constraints, gameplay, etc.) many things that appeared in documents didn't make it into the actual game.  EQ2 brought with it the opportunity to add in some of these elements that were left out but alluded to in EQ1.  Historic landmarks in Commonlands and Nektropos Castle are a few examples, the Loping Plains was a chance to add in a region to Faydwer that appears on the original map and put Castle Mistmoore in the proper location.

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>In truth, I find it remarkable just how well the lore from all the various games about Norrath mesh together.  </p><p>Partly this is due to the fact that there was some continuity between the developers of EQ Live and EQ2, partly it is due to the solid story/lore foundation that EQ Live first laid down, and partly it is due to the professionalism of all those involved in the development process.  </p><p>Despite having their own projects and separate games dealing with separate eras and story lines, great pains seem to be taken not to box one or the other team in, and in truth, to try to validate their contributions when it is practical to do so.  </p><p>For this we players are most grateful.</p>

[Chips]

<cite>Mayl wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Side note, but still.   What is with the locked door on the top flight of the dungeon?  It is on the left side as you first walk in.   I know in eq1, you need a rogue to pick locks and travel thru the zone.  Wonder if this is just a little shout out to eq1 or an old plan where scouts would be used to open doors in eq2.   I know they inserted the made up lore to cover for how SH is now Befallen, but still..</p></blockquote><p>i never played everquest or any of its other forms other than eq2 , but when i started reading these lore forum posts i started thinking that</p><p> whatever direction the lore went it would ALL lead back to the two main cities of Qeynos and Freeport , quite literally , and like a stretched</p><p> rubber band the lore has spread over continents not fully pushed to its limits , but when it does hit that limit it will all rush right back to where</p><p> we started from and on its way back those areas left unopened or explored will hold zones and quests that will clarify mysteries even further</p><p>that door in my theory may be one of those mystery locations. the end zone i predict in this game wont be some far off epic encounter on a lost</p><p> moon or in the void. but perhaps right under our noses in the castle in Qeynos , and the floating citadel in Freeport.   </p>

[Vanisher123]

in reference to the EQ2 world map where is Befallen? Did it sink into the ocean?

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Vanisher123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>in reference to the EQ2 world map where is Befallen? Did it sink into the ocean?</blockquote><p>It *WOULD* be where Fallen Gate is located, if they hadn't goofed up and realized that they were putting two level 20 undead dungeons in the Commonlands and nothing in Antonica.</p>

[teddyboy4]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vanisher123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>in reference to the EQ2 world map where is Befallen? Did it sink into the ocean?</blockquote><p>It *<b>SHOULD</b>* be where Fallen Gate is located, if they hadn't goofed up and realized that they were putting two level 20 undead dungeons in the Commonlands and nothing in Antonica.</p></blockquote>fixed <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />

[Wilin]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vanisher123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>in reference to the EQ2 world map where is Befallen? Did it sink into the ocean?</blockquote><p>It *WOULD* be where Fallen Gate is located, if they hadn't goofed up and realized that they were putting two level 20 undead dungeons in the Commonlands and nothing in Antonica.</p></blockquote>I just wanted to add that might not seem like a big deal nowadays to some. But, everyone should remember that when the game released, it was a PITA to get people together from FP and Qeynos because they had to travel through Nek. There was no mariners bell to the Nek/TS docks. And Nek was a death trap for most people, full of heroics that blanketed the zone more or less and fish that would jump out of the water and chase you across the zone. And there was no where to mend or sell your gear on the opposite side so you had to call all the way back to town whenever you needed to mend or sell. That's why alot of the early guilds were all FP or all Qeynos.

[Meirril]

<cite>Wilin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vanisher123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>in reference to the EQ2 world map where is Befallen? Did it sink into the ocean?</blockquote><p>It *WOULD* be where Fallen Gate is located, if they hadn't goofed up and realized that they were putting two level 20 undead dungeons in the Commonlands and nothing in Antonica.</p></blockquote>I just wanted to add that might not seem like a big deal nowadays to some. But, everyone should remember that when the game released, it was a PITA to get people together from FP and Qeynos because they had to travel through Nek. There was no mariners bell to the Nek/TS docks. And Nek was a death trap for most people, full of heroics that blanketed the zone more or less and fish that would jump out of the water and chase you across the zone. And there was no where to mend or sell your gear on the opposite side so you had to call all the way back to town whenever you needed to mend or sell. That's why alot of the early guilds were all FP or all Qeynos.</blockquote><p>Not to mention that in the early days you could only contribute status to a guild if you belong to the city it was founded in. Which is better than beta, where you initially couldn't belong to a guild that didn't match your alignment.</p><p>It also stresses how hard it was to betray in the beginning. You had to be level 19 or below to start the betrayal quest. So you had to take a generally level 14-17 toon and march it through TS and Nek forest when there were still heroics wandering these zones!</p>

[Wilde_Night]

<p>Funny, I recall the entrance to Befallen being up on the side of a hill/mountain not on the ground.  I also recall it being closer to a wasp hill than Fallen Gate is which leads me to think it should be over near the orc area/Val'marr.</p><p>I think it is still out there, waiting for someone to reopen it.</p><p>It would be a really cool way to upgrade the Bone Bladed Claymore in a future update or expansion.</p>

[Apocroph]

<cite>Aeviel@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Funny, I recall the entrance to Befallen being up on the side of a hill/mountain not on the ground.  I also recall it being closer to a wasp hill than Fallen Gate is which leads me to think it should be over near the orc area/Val'marr.</p></blockquote><a href="http://www.eqatlas.com/westcommonsmap.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.eqatlas.com/westcommonsmap.html</a>