Fay Wings and Illusions

[Andok]

It may be silly that such a small change could affect my enjoyment of a character so much, but ever since fay wings were removed from their illusion forms, I lost almost all interest in playing my fay alt.  I loved running around as an ugly ogre or troll with butterfly wings.  It was so fun that I purchased the bones to complete all of the race bone collections so I could turn into different races with wings.  Now, after the ‘fix’, I just have a collection of boring illusions. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Please give us the option to turn the wings back on. 

[Miladi]

<cite>Andok wrote:</cite><blockquote>It may be silly that such a small change could affect my enjoyment of a character so much, but ever since fay wings were removed from their illusion forms, I lost almost all interest in playing my fay alt.  I loved running around as an ugly ogre or troll with butterfly wings.  It was so fun that I purchased the bones to complete all of the race bone collections so I could turn into different races with wings.  Now, after the ‘fix’, I just have a collection of boring illusions. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Please give us the option to turn the wings back on.  </blockquote><p>Then its no longer an "illusion" its a costume. Dictionary.com defines illusion like this:</p><p>1. something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality. 2. the state or condition of being deceived; misapprehension. 3. an instance of being deceived. 4. Psychology. a perception, as of visual stimuli (optical illusion), that represents what is perceived in a way different from the way it is in reality. </p><p>What you want isn't an illusion under those definitions. </p>

[CorpseGoddess]

Probably should look at more than one source:<span style="font-family: arial;"> <b>NOUN:</b> </span> <ol><li> <ol><li><b> An erroneous perception of reality.</b></li><li><b> An erroneous concept or belief.</b></li></ol> </li><li> The condition of being deceived by a false perception or belief.</li><li> Something, such as a fantastic plan or desire, that causes an erroneous belief or perception.</li><li> Illusionism in art.</li><li> A fine transparent cloth, used for dresses or trimmings.</li></ol>Dunno about you, but an ogre with fae wings is a pretty erroneous concept, if you ask me.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Andok]

<cite>Miladian wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Andok wrote:</cite><blockquote>It may be silly that such a small change could affect my enjoyment of a character so much, but ever since fay wings were removed from their illusion forms, I lost almost all interest in playing my fay alt.  I loved running around as an ugly ogre or troll with butterfly wings.  It was so fun that I purchased the bones to complete all of the race bone collections so I could turn into different races with wings.  Now, after the ‘fix’, I just have a collection of boring illusions. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Please give us the option to turn the wings back on.  </blockquote><p>Then its no longer an "illusion" its a costume. Dictionary.com defines illusion like this:</p><p>1. something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality. 2. the state or condition of being deceived; misapprehension. 3. an instance of being deceived. 4. Psychology. a perception, as of visual stimuli (optical illusion), that represents what is perceived in a way different from the way it is in reality. </p><p>What you want isn't an illusion under those definitions. </p></blockquote>First of all, it <i>is </i>an illusion, even with the definition you selected.Second, if that's the argument against, just one of semantics, then we definitely need those wings turned back on (make it an option for those who don't like the wings).

[Transen]

How bout appearance-slot only cloaks that allow both fae and non-fae folk to display wings (if that be your sort of thing).  Then those of us who think illusions should actually do their job regardless of what race you are in actuality can keep to our beguiling ways and you freakin' dust-tossers can have your damnable wings!!!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Wilde_Night]

If I recall correctly, the wings were taken away because in such a large form they became a hinderance to others who were grouped with them.

[Chay]

i always thought they looked incredibly tacky on other races. greatly scaled down one might not on some races.

[Dreamaria]

If fae's in illusions showed their wings, then I want my ratonga tail on an ogre illusion!! And I want a kerra tail and ears on a high elf illusion!!! Sarnak and Iksar tails and horns/head decoration on gnome illusions!!!!And if they put the wings on illusion again... I want the ability to turn rendering off for them... I love raids with giant ogres with fae/arasai wing covering my entire screen... did the tank just pull....where's the mob...?At least when fae/arasai are in their normal form you can see over the fluttering wings.....with all the freedom of these illusions now... can we get a fae illusion too... I want to be a fae with a ratonga tail.

[ArivenGemini]

<cite>Aeviel@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>If I recall correctly, the wings were taken away because in such a large form they became a hinderance to others who were grouped with them.</blockquote>By that logic they should take away warg mounts from large characters.. like ogres...  sometimes it is a hassle to target things through the warg thats as big as a small bus.I want the wings back too <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[SilkenKidden]

<cite>Elincia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>If fae's in illusions showed their wings, then I want my ratonga tail on an ogre illusion!! And I want a kerra tail and ears on a high elf illusion!!! Sarnak and Iksar tails and horns/head decoration on gnome illusions!!!!And if they put the wings on illusion again... I want the ability to turn rendering off for them... I love raids with giant ogres with fae/arasai wing covering my entire screen... did the tank just pull....where's the mob...?At least when fae/arasai are in their normal form you can see over the fluttering wings.....with all the freedom of these illusions now... can we get a fae illusion too... I want to be a fae with a ratonga tail.</blockquote>Exactly.  When my kerra takes on a high elf illusion, she does it so she looks like a high elf.  I don't want a high elf with whiskers and tail.  It seems the developers fixed a bug with fae illusions.  Perhaps other fays didn't like their wings giving away their original form.  Can't please everybody. 

[Miladi]

<cite>Andok wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Miladian wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Andok wrote:</cite><blockquote>It may be silly that such a small change could affect my enjoyment of a character so much, but ever since fay wings were removed from their illusion forms, I lost almost all interest in playing my fay alt.  I loved running around as an ugly ogre or troll with butterfly wings.  It was so fun that I purchased the bones to complete all of the race bone collections so I could turn into different races with wings.  Now, after the ‘fix’, I just have a collection of boring illusions. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Please give us the option to turn the wings back on.  </blockquote><p>Then its no longer an "illusion" its a costume. Dictionary.com defines illusion like this:</p><p>1. something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality. 2. the state or condition of being deceived; misapprehension. 3. an instance of being deceived. 4. Psychology. a perception, as of visual stimuli (optical illusion), that represents what is perceived in a way different from the way it is in reality. </p><p>What you want isn't an illusion under those definitions. </p></blockquote>First of all, it <i>is </i>an illusion, even with the definition you selected.Second, if that's the argument against, just one of semantics, then we definitely need those wings turned back on (make it an option for those who don't like the wings).</blockquote>First of all, it isn't an illusion if you're showing the wings, its a bug. None of my definitions cited show that an rat with wings is an illusion of a Ratonga, its a mistake if they show. When you show the wings, you are no longer able to deceive the viewer because they know you're just a butterfly with a costume on. Showing the wings is just not an illusion no matter how you cut it. Its a bug that was <b>corrected.</b> I thought it was interesting to run around with my Fae's wings showing, but I was glad when the fixed it and got rid of them in illusion forms.

[Andok]

To recap, here are the arguments against giving us an option to put or fae wings back on illusions –1. For semantic reasons with the definition of ‘illusion’  2. Because my ratonga tail (or other race trait) doesn’t show up on my illusions, AKA if I can’t have something, then I don’t want you to have something.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />3. Because fae wings get in the way of targeting (just like mounts and everything else that’s still visible)4. I don’t like themI have yet to hear a good argument against putting back what has been in the game for a long time (fae wings on illusions).  Just give us an option so that the faes that prefer it the new way can keep their wings off.

[Transen]

There are more people who don't want them put back in than those that do.  Sony wants to keep the majority of their customers happy so that they can get paid....Just because it's not what you personally would consider a good reason doesn't mean it's not a good enough reason for everyone else. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Andok]

<cite>Transen wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are more people who don't want them put back in than those that do.  </blockquote>Really?  I would love to see your data that proves this.

[Andok]

<cite>Miladian wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>First of all, it isn't an illusion if you're showing the wings, its a bug. None of my definitions cited show that an rat with wings is an illusion of a Ratonga, its a mistake if they show. When you show the wings, you are no longer able to deceive the viewer because they know you're just a butterfly with a costume on. Showing the wings is just not an illusion no matter how you cut it. Its a bug that was <b>corrected.</b> I thought it was interesting to run around with my Fae's wings showing, but I was glad when the fixed it and got rid of them in illusion forms.</blockquote>It was still an illusion, bugged or not.  Either way, it was that way in the game for a long time, and a lot of people liked it.  Assuming that SoE fixed the bug - great, I'm glad that it was fixed for the people who didn't like keeping their wings; however, a lot of people liked it the old way.  Why not let people choose?  You can hide your wings and other people can show them.  Everyone is happy.

[Rainmare]

<cite>Andok wrote:</cite><blockquote>To recap, here are the arguments against giving us an option to put or fae wings back on illusions –<b>1. For semantic reasons with the definition of ‘illusion’ </b> 2. Because my ratonga tail (or other race trait) doesn’t show up on my illusions, AKA if I can’t have something, then I don’t want you to have something.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />3. Because fae wings get in the way of targeting (just like mounts and everything else that’s still visible)4. I don’t like themI have yet to hear a good argument against putting back what has been in the game for a long time (fae wings on illusions).  Just give us an option so that the faes that prefer it the new way can keep their wings off.</blockquote>it's not semantics. it's a plain fact. an illusion is meant to hide the truth behind a usually elaborate deception. if your an ogre with butterfly wings, your not fooling anyone as to what you actually are, which is the entire point of an illusion.As to the large mounts as such. I don't know about you, but if I'm grouped with an ogre that is riding a warg, he can either get off the warg, or find another group if it's a hinderance.the erroneous perception of reality/concept or belief semantic thing is again, entirely false. I would have NO erroneous perception of reality in seeing an Ogre with fairy wing. a perception of <b>reality</b> would be me seeing that winged ogre and still thinking it's an ogre. when any norrathian with a brain and has lived longer than an hour would know it's an fae with a costume on, which is essentially what it becomes when it's obvious that you are not what you appear to be.it was a bug, and I think even stated as a bug, that a fae with an illusion showed wings. and if your only enjoyment in a fae character was to get a giggle out of putting it in ogre form with wings, you shouldn't probably be playing it in the first place. you obviously have no interest in the character other then mild humor value.

[ArivenGemini]

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>and if your only enjoyment in a fae character was to get a giggle out of putting it in ogre form with wings, you shouldn't probably be playing it in the first place. you obviously have no interest in the character other then mild humor value.</blockquote>What really gets me about a notable subset of the eq2 community is the arrogance of people who have the belief that if they don't approve of or enjoy something, then no-one should...If someone gets happiness from fae wings?  why does it torque YOUR unmentionables enough to tell them that they shouldnt be playing how they want to play, its not like you are paying for <b>their</b> subscription.At the core of what i am saying, what does it hurt you, honestly, for people to have the option to show wings if they want to?

[Sayne]

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Andok wrote:</cite><blockquote>To recap, here are the arguments against giving us an option to put or fae wings back on illusions –<b>1. For semantic reasons with the definition of ‘illusion’ </b> 2. Because my ratonga tail (or other race trait) doesn’t show up on my illusions, AKA if I can’t have something, then I don’t want you to have something.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />3. Because fae wings get in the way of targeting (just like mounts and everything else that’s still visible)4. I don’t like themI have yet to hear a good argument against putting back what has been in the game for a long time (fae wings on illusions).  Just give us an option so that the faes that prefer it the new way can keep their wings off.</blockquote>it's not semantics. it's a plain fact. an illusion is meant to hide the truth behind a usually elaborate deception. if your an ogre with butterfly wings, your not fooling anyone as to what you actually are, which is the entire point of an illusion.As to the large mounts as such. I don't know about you, but if I'm grouped with an ogre that is riding a warg, he can either get off the warg, or find another group if it's a hinderance.the erroneous perception of reality/concept or belief semantic thing is again, entirely false. I would have NO erroneous perception of reality in seeing an Ogre with fairy wing. a perception of <b>reality</b> would be me seeing that winged ogre and still thinking it's an ogre. when any norrathian with a brain and has lived longer than an hour would know it's an fae with a costume on, which is essentially what it becomes when it's obvious that you are not what you appear to be.it was a bug, and I think even stated as a bug, that a fae with an illusion showed wings. <i><b>and if your only enjoyment in a fae character was to get a giggle out of putting it in ogre form with wings, you shouldn't probably be playing it in the first place. you obviously have no interest in the character other then mild humor value.</b></i></blockquote>So let me get this straight.  Someone enjoying some particular aspect of the game means that they shouldn't be playing it because they don't focus on the entire game?  I personally enjoy decorating, but I suppose since I don't raid I should just quite entirely.  I get a lot of enjoyment out of the aesthetics  of the game and the things I can do with house items, but I don't know if that's enough to satisfy your idea of what it should take to play a game.  For entertainment.I don't particularly have a strong opinion on this.  I thought the wings were cute, and I think it would be a great thing if people could choose to have them turned on so they could have fun with it if they wanted, but I also know it isn't game-breaking.  I'm happy either way, and I still get the intended effect when my arasai troubador uses her High Elf illusion and runs around as a High Elf with blue hair (which High Elves just don't do, as it wouldn't be proper).  Let me say that I still believe it is an illusion, even though she has blue hair, because she is still taking on the form of a high elf.  In fact, it is even <i>more</i> of an illusion because she does have it, which would inspire disbelief in people.  It's not that she has her "costume" on because my arasai is in no way over 5 feet tall, and simply couldn't have that amount of biomass.  Just as a fae using an ogre illusion is still wearing an illusion, not a costume.  They transform so much in size and shape that it changes the way people perceive them in an entirely different way.  I think you would find that fits perfectly well with your definition of an illusion.

[Transen]

<cite>Andok wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Transen wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are more people who don't want them put back in than those that do.  </blockquote>Really?  I would love to see your data that proves this.</blockquote>Alright, let me rephrase it:IN MY OPINION, there seemed to be more people who didn't want them in the first place than those that did...at the very least, there were more people who seemed to be griping about it when discussions were being made in that regard....as far as I can recall.Then again, I could be wrong.Happy now?

[Andok]

<cite>ArivenGemini wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Andok wrote:</cite>and if your only enjoyment in a fae character was to get a giggle out of putting it in ogre form with wings, you shouldn't probably be playing it in the first place. you obviously have no interest in the character other then mild humor value.</blockquote>What really gets me about a notable subset of the eq2 community is the arrogance of people who have the belief that if they don't approve of or enjoy something, then no-one should...If someone gets happiness from fae wings?  why does it torque YOUR unmentionables enough to tell them that they shouldnt be playing how they want to play, its not like you are paying for <b>their</b> subscription.At the core of what i am saying, what does it hurt you, honestly, for people to have the option to show wings if they want to?</blockquote>Amen to that!  (even though your posts makes it look like you're quoting me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />)I can understand why people may not like the wings on their illusions, but why they are against people having a choice is beyond me.  I didn't even know that people were complaining about the wings before it was changed.  Everyone I knew thought it was fun.

[Tchazzar]

<p>I want the option to turn them on/off. I can understand the need not to have them or to have them. Its a RolePlay value to me. I wanted to rp a ogre with demon looking wings..oh well, guess I'll have to wait for them to give us an option. Please do sony, wouldnt be hard to do.</p>

[Tsunai]

<p>Surgeon General's note: The dead should never be dug up and attempts to be resuscitated made. It's very gooey and icky and there would probably be worms harmed which would get the animal rights people involved then it just gets ugly.</p><p>So, just say no. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>