Soloing fighting techniques

[Pnaxx]

<p>Hey y'all. As I have been doing some fights, I wanted to fid out the best way to solo sontent that can be touch and go. So far I havn't died, but it's been close. I am only level 7 right now.</p><p>So, in general, do you all kite or just slug it out? Right now, if my memory se4rves me while I am at work, I do something like this...</p><p>1. Go stealth</p><p>2. Use stealth attack from behind</p><p>3. Snare</p><p>4. Mele attack</p><p>5. Spell for mental damage</p><p>6. Stun</p><p>7. Positional strike</p><p>8. Wait for refreshed hot keys and use as I can.</p><p>So , I am wondering, can I use stealth again during the fight? What about kiting? Can I do it, is it effective at my level? How to do it if I can.</p><p>I know that we get an in combat movemnet buff that will aid in kiting better, but until then is it viable?</p><p>Again, just looking for advise to play this the best I can.</p>

[Banditman]

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[Pnaxx]

I may be wasting your time with that request as I just saw a nice thread that didnt com eup on my search. Thank you.

[Raahl]

<p>You really must choose a patch as a troubador.  Focus on high INT or focus on high STR.    If you can get both high than more power to you.</p><p>INT increases your spell damage.</p><p>STR increases your melee damage.</p><p>Personally I went high INT and it's served me well.</p><p>Also go down the AGI AA line to get the poison proc.</p>

[Pnaxx]

<cite>Raahl wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You really must choose a patch as a troubador.  Focus on high INT or focus on high STR.    If you can get both high than more power to you.</p><p>INT increases your spell damage.</p><p>STR increases your melee damage.</p><p>Personally I went high INT and it's served me well.</p><p>Also go down the AGI AA line to get the poison proc.</p></blockquote><p>Well now, isn't that interesting. That IS something to consider, isn't. </p><p>I would say that, while I want to solo ok, my main goal will be to serve the group with buffs. On the otherhand, I can always respec when the groups are a bigger deal and I am soloing less/grouping more. However, several of our spells need the INT to be higher....which is for soloing as well. What gives the biggest bang fer your buck, Spells or CA's? This must be a Crusaders decision too. </p>

[Banditman]

Don't think of yourself as a buff bot, you aren't.  Yes, you buff groups well, but that is such a small part of what you can do that making it your focus will make you a far less complete player.Being able to solo well assures you of being able to reach those higher levels where most of the grouping actually happens.  It can be a real struggle to find a group while leveling up.  At least that was true on Kithicor while I was leveling.  Being a good solo'er meant that I wasn't standing around sitting on my thumbs waiting to buff a group so they could level me up.

[Pnaxx]

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't think of yourself as a buff bot, you aren't.  Yes, you buff groups well, but that is such a small part of what you can do that making it your focus will make you a far less complete player.Being able to solo well assures you of being able to reach those higher levels where most of the grouping actually happens.  It can be a real struggle to find a group while leveling up.  At least that was true on Kithicor while I was leveling.  Being a good solo'er meant that I wasn't standing around sitting on my thumbs waiting to buff a group so they could level me up.</blockquote>Good points.

[Kelin]

I'm not 80 yet but here is what I think after playing my troub for 69 levels for the past few months. Troubador is the only class I play, I came back to eq after being gone a few years and started from scratch on a new server. There are a few things I like to keep in mind at all times, first of all that necro in the group does so much more dps then I do that its silly to try to compete with that. Second is that just because you solo slow it does not mean that you "cant" solo. My aa's are all str and wis, blade dance does have its uses but the avoidance and stat increases from the strength line have even more use for groups. My aa's in the troub trees are regen, potm, and then  demoralizers. You can see that I am focusing on my group  utility. I soloed a whole lot during the first 50 levels, very easily. My gear has always been full master crafted and most of my spells are adept 3 are master, except for ca's, those are the last ones I bother to upgrade. After 50 I pretty much never had a problem getting a group, I'm in a guild thats working on getting a lot of toons up into the high 60's and 70's for the t7 content so there are almost always people that want to do something. I'm on kithicor as well and I cant say that its ever been to hard to find a pug. Of course 4 am on a tuesday night is slow no matter how much guildys want to level so I do solo during those times. Normally I work on quests that are green and blue to me, I normally am so bad at getting them done that there are always plenty laying around for me to finish up, those are not though enough to bother talking about here, as long as your gear is decent you should be ok. When it comes to higher mobs it usually goes something like this: 1) mez 2) debuff with everything that dosent break mez 3) pull  with debuffs that do break mez 4) spam some ca's 5) keep spamming ca's 6) if my health is low and its a long fight I will mez the thing again I stay pretty careful so I rarely get adds but if I do get one or if its a grouped mob I will mez the adds. Its really pretty easy once you get the hang of it. My debuffs are all in macros and the mob always has all  of my debuffs on it before I ever attack it with ca's. In groups or on raids (well the raids I'm high enough to do) I focus on keeping the thing debuffed, keeping potm up, and my jesters cap rotation, if between all of that there is room to throw in a ca or two in I will. I cant  stress how important gear is to you if you solo though. A necro can walk around naked and have the mob dead long before it ever hits them, if ever, we cannot. Unless you are kiteing you are going to have to tank them, and the fights can be pretty long, make sure you have decent enough gear to last a long fight. Everyone plays differently, this is just my take on it, but the way I figure it is that the only person I'm not out parsing is that healer, why should I bother using 60 aa's just to parse an additional 200 during a fight when everyone else in the group is doing 4 times that? I  think we can solo very effectively, slowly yes, but effectively, if we focus on our aa's that make our group utility stronger, remember you get the + stat increases, avoidance, mit, and whatever else help you even when you are soloing as well.

[Banditman]

15 seconds per fight is slow?

[Kelin]

Yes and no. No if its a yellow ^, yes if its a even con that any other mellee class can kill with a single hit. I have fights that last 30 seconds sometimes on single mobs and almost 2 minuets on some grouped mobs.

[Pnaxx]

<cite>Spash@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm not 80 yet but here is what I think after playing my troub for 69 levels for the past few months. Troubador is the only class I play, I came back to eq after being gone a few years and started from scratch on a new server. There are a few things I like to keep in mind at all times, first of all that necro in the group does so much more dps then I do that its silly to try to compete with that. Second is that just because you solo slow it does not mean that you "cant" solo. My aa's are all str and wis, blade dance does have its uses but the avoidance and stat increases from the strength line have even more use for groups. My aa's in the troub trees are regen, potm, and then  demoralizers. You can see that I am focusing on my group  utility. I soloed a whole lot during the first 50 levels, very easily. My gear has always been full master crafted and most of my spells are adept 3 are master, except for ca's, those are the last ones I bother to upgrade. After 50 I pretty much never had a problem getting a group, I'm in a guild thats working on getting a lot of toons up into the high 60's and 70's for the t7 content so there are almost always people that want to do something. I'm on kithicor as well and I cant say that its ever been to hard to find a pug. Of course 4 am on a tuesday night is slow no matter how much guildys want to level so I do solo during those times. Normally I work on quests that are green and blue to me, I normally am so bad at getting them done that there are always plenty laying around for me to finish up, those are not though enough to bother talking about here, as long as your gear is decent you should be ok. When it comes to higher mobs it usually goes something like this:1) mez2) debuff with everything that dosent break mez3) pull  with debuffs that do break mez4) spam some ca's 5) keep spamming ca's6) if my health is low and its a long fight I will mez the thing againI stay pretty careful so I rarely get adds but if I do get one or if its a grouped mob I will mez the adds. Its really pretty easy once you get the hang of it. My debuffs are all in macros and the mob always has all  of my debuffs on it before I ever attack it with ca's. In groups or on raids (well the raids I'm high enough to do) I focus on keeping the thing debuffed, keeping potm up, and my jesters cap rotation, if between all of that there is room to throw in a ca or two in I will. I cant  stress how important gear is to you if you solo though. A necro can walk around naked and have the mob dead long before it ever hits them, if ever, we cannot. Unless you are kiteing you are going to have to tank them, and the fights can be pretty long, make sure you have decent enough gear to last a long fight. Everyone plays differently, this is just my take on it, but the way I figure it is that the only person I'm not out parsing is that healer, why should I bother using 60 aa's just to parse an additional 200 during a fight when everyone else in the group is doing 4 times that? I  think we can solo very effectively, slowly yes, but effectively, if we focus on our aa's that make our group utility stronger, remember you get the + stat increases, avoidance, mit, and whatever else help you even when you are soloing as well.</blockquote>Good stuff. Thanks.

[Raahl]

<p>I practiced a little kiting yesterday on some mobs that were just kicking my butt.  It was very effective at keeping myself alive and with a good amount of health/power.</p><p>Here's what I was doing.  FYI it's not a perfect kite, just what worked for me last night.</p><ol><li>Pull with Bow CA.</li><li>Hit it with the other Bow CA (hate reducing one) just for some extra damage.</li><li>Cheapshot +positional attacks.</li><li>Movement speed debuff.</li><li>Move back spamming all my debuffs.</li><li> Stop spamming my quick spells.</li></ol><p>By the time I got the step 6 the mob was well into the yellow and very close to orange.  I then just duked it out in melee with them.  </p>

[Banditman]

<cite>Spash@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes and no. No if its a yellow ^, yes if its a even con that any other mellee class can kill with a single hit. I have fights that last 30 seconds sometimes on single mobs and almost 2 minuets on some grouped mobs. </blockquote>You're doing something wrong.

[RanmaBoyType]

<cite>Spash@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm not 80 yet but here is what I think after playing my troub for 69 levels for the past few months. Troubador is the only class I play, I came back to eq after being gone a few years and started from scratch on a new server. There are a few things I like to keep in mind at all times, first of all that necro in the group does so much more dps then I do that its silly to try to compete with that. Second is that just because you solo slow it does not mean that you "cant" solo. My aa's are all str and wis, blade dance does have its uses but the avoidance and stat increases from the strength line have even more use for groups. My aa's in the troub trees are regen, potm, and then  demoralizers. You can see that I am focusing on my group  utility. I soloed a whole lot during the first 50 levels, very easily. My gear has always been full master crafted and most of my spells are adept 3 are master, except for ca's, those are the last ones I bother to upgrade. After 50 I pretty much never had a problem getting a group, I'm in a guild thats working on getting a lot of toons up into the high 60's and 70's for the t7 content so there are almost always people that want to do something. I'm on kithicor as well and I cant say that its ever been to hard to find a pug. Of course 4 am on a tuesday night is slow no matter how much guildys want to level so I do solo during those times. Normally I work on quests that are green and blue to me, I normally am so bad at getting them done that there are always plenty laying around for me to finish up, those are not though enough to bother talking about here, as long as your gear is decent you should be ok. When it comes to higher mobs it usually goes something like this:1) mez2) debuff with everything that dosent break mez3) pull  with debuffs that do break mez4) spam some ca's 5) keep spamming ca's6) if my health is low and its a long fight I will mez the thing againI stay pretty careful so I rarely get adds but if I do get one or if its a grouped mob I will mez the adds. Its really pretty easy once you get the hang of it. My debuffs are all in macros and the mob always has all  of my debuffs on it before I ever attack it with ca's. In groups or on raids (well the raids I'm high enough to do) I focus on keeping the thing debuffed, keeping potm up, and my jesters cap rotation, if between all of that there is room to throw in a ca or two in I will. I cant  stress how important gear is to you if you solo though. A necro can walk around naked and have the mob dead long before it ever hits them, if ever, we cannot. Unless you are kiteing you are going to have to tank them, and the fights can be pretty long, make sure you have decent enough gear to last a long fight. Everyone plays differently, this is just my take on it, but the way I figure it is that the only person I'm not out parsing is that healer, why should I bother using 60 aa's just to parse an additional 200 during a fight when everyone else in the group is doing 4 times that? I  think we can solo very effectively, slowly yes, but effectively, if we focus on our aa's that make our group utility stronger, remember you get the + stat increases, avoidance, mit, and whatever else help you even when you are soloing as well.</blockquote><p>This may be one of the ways to solo mobs, but im going to have to disagree with its effeciency, and argue against the STR line for the avoidance buff.  Here is my reasoning.</p><p>The bonus to the avoidance from the str line is minimal at best.  This is probably more effective for a dirge in MT group, since parry is far superior to defense, but for a troub i can count on one finger the times i have ever run our avoidance buff in a group setting.  Ill run it solo, but looking straight at the stats you get a far better bonus solo from the stamina line with a good round shield and the agility line (up to  8 points in Wayfarer's Watch) plus wis for Allegro and DKTM.  I also focus my points on INT line for the bonus to haste.  In teir 8 it almost doubles our haste, which is noticible if you kite with a really hard hitting bow.</p><p>The mez and debuff routine is what i follow when i duel, but not for soloing, i find it slow and inneffective.  With a good bow and stamina line i have the mob usually to 30% before it even reaches me, just using our ranged attack + snare + thunderous (first since you need to stand still) then shrill and the aoe/dd (can't remember the name for the life of me)  If it does reach you, then not only do you have cheapshot for a stun, but you have the sheild stun ability as well.  When running writs solo in t8 im lucky if a mob ever hits me once, and they usually die in about 10 - 15 seconds using this tactic.</p><p>As far as parsing is concerned , you can really tell the difference in group/raid settings with a troub who loves their class vs a troub who just believes they are a buff bot.  Right now in a group (due to mobs dying so quick) i average about 1700 dps which ain't bad, and my raid parses are breaking 2700 now (as i gear up)  I know of troubs in VP popping 3k regularly.  Saying troubs just "can't do dps" is to me the same excuse healers use when they say they can't do any dps either, but that is another issue for a different forum.</p>

[Kelin]

<cite>RanmaBoyType wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This may be one of the ways to solo mobs, but im going to have to disagree with its effeciency, and argue against the STR line for the avoidance buff.  Here is my reasoning.<p>The bonus to the avoidance from the str line is minimal at best.  This is probably more effective for a dirge in MT group, since parry is far superior to defense, but for a troub i can count on one finger the times i have ever run our avoidance buff in a group setting.  Ill run it solo, but looking straight at the stats you get a far better bonus solo from the stamina line with a good round shield and the agility line (up to  8 points in Wayfarer's Watch) plus wis for Allegro and DKTM.  I also focus my points on INT line for the bonus to haste.  In teir 8 it almost doubles our haste, which is noticible if you kite with a really hard hitting bow.</p><p>The mez and debuff routine is what i follow when i duel, but not for soloing, i find it slow and inneffective.  With a good bow and stamina line i have the mob usually to 30% before it even reaches me, just using our ranged attack + snare + thunderous (first since you need to stand still) then shrill and the aoe/dd (can't remember the name for the life of me)  If it does reach you, then not only do you have cheapshot for a stun, but you have the sheild stun ability as well.  When running writs solo in t8 im lucky if a mob ever hits me once, and they usually die in about 10 - 15 seconds using this tactic.</p><p>As far as parsing is concerned , you can really tell the difference in group/raid settings with a troub who loves their class vs a troub who just believes they are a buff bot.  Right now in a group (due to mobs dying so quick) i average about 1700 dps which ain't bad, and my raid parses are breaking 2700 now (as i gear up)  I know of troubs in VP popping 3k regularly.  Saying troubs just "can't do dps" is to me the same excuse healers use when they say they can't do any dps either, but that is another issue for a different forum.</p></blockquote> Well as a troub I cant possibly count the number of times I run our avoidance buff because I use it pretty often, if we are having a trough time I'm going to put my defensive buffs on. The thing about the sta line is that other then fort it does nothing to help anyone other then yourself. Which is fine if you are mostly a solo player  but if you are solo player why on earth did you choose to roll a troub?Of course its slow and ineffective, I pointed out at the begging of my post that its how I take on harder mobs, not everything, regular stuff I just mellee with. You should be able to stand toe to to with a even con. The last part of your post really irked me, I love my class very much, thats why its the only class I play and for you to say that because I dont focus on our ubertatstic dps means that I dont and I think of myself as a buff bot is just stupid. I manage to keep pretty busy keeping the thing debuffed and jesters cap on everyone, if you have time to load the mob full off non autoattack damage then you are obviously not debuffing it. I would rather do my job and allow everyone else to do theres instead of trying to do a half [Removed for Content] imitation of a gimped swashy. Did you ever stop to wonder why half of our aa's are debuffs while only a handful are direct damage? If its a long fight in a group or raid then yea I do have time to do damage to the mob but that is always my very last priority.

[Banditman]

I thought we were talking about "Solo Fighting Techniques" no?  Debuffing in a solo environment?  What?Even in a grouping environment, with the lifespan of your average mob measured in slices less than 20 seconds you are far better off in most situations just laying all the damage you can on the mob than trying to "help others" do more.  Sure, you'll get the occasional named with a 40 second life expectancy and yea, debuffing might help some there.  In general though, come on, smash the mob up and move on to the next.

[RanmaBoyType]

<cite>Spash@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well as a troub I cant possibly count the number of times I run our avoidance buff because I use it pretty often, if we are having a trough time I'm going to put my defensive buffs on. The thing about the sta line is that other then fort it does nothing to help anyone other then yourself. Which is fine if you are mostly a solo player  but if you are solo player why on earth did you choose to roll a troub?</p><p><b><span style="color: #cc6600;">In Response to this, first off I rolled my troub for raiding, however gave my recomendations on my solo techniques when doing city writs in t8.  As far as the argument in STA vs STR vs what helps the group, in a "good" group the only thing your avoidance buff will help is the tank, and with this i ask you to do the following.  Have your tank tell you his avoidance without your song on, then have him tell you his avoidance WITH your song on, and notice the fraction of a different this will actually make to run.  Perhaps this is an issue we should bring up with SoE, but our avoidance buff is useless at its best in any group situation.  On the other hand fortissimo is a godsend of a buff that effects any melee in your group, including yourself.</span></b> </p><p>Of course its slow and ineffective, I pointed out at the begging of my post that its how I take on harder mobs, not everything, regular stuff I just mellee with. You should be able to stand toe to to with a even con. </p><p><b><span style="color: #cc3300;">/agree, i was just posted my strategies for tried and true solo mob killing.  I have yet to find a solo mob i needed to mez, including all the solo named in t8</span></b>The last part of your post really irked me, I love my class very much, thats why its the only class I play and for you to say that because I dont focus on our ubertatstic dps means that I dont and I think of myself as a buff bot is just stupid. I manage to keep pretty busy keeping the thing debuffed and jesters cap on everyone, if you have time to load the mob full off non autoattack damage then you are obviously not debuffing it. I would rather do my job and allow everyone else to do theres instead of trying to do a half [Removed for Content] imitation of a gimped swashy. Did you ever stop to wonder why half of our aa's are debuffs while only a handful are direct damage? </p><p><b><span style="color: #cc6600;">Not trying to irk you, however in solo, debuffs other than your snare are for the most part a waste of time.  In a good group like banditman stated the mobs die so quick anyway that anything other than resist debuff is a waste of time.  In a raid setting (please PLEASE don't take this personally) but if you are not able to lay down your debuffs, jesters and POTM and still pull a good 2k (gear pending), then you may need a little work.</span></b>If its a long fight in a group or raid then yea I do have time to do damage to the mob but that is always my very last priority. </p><p><b><span style="color: #cc6600;">You can always be damaging the mob while debuffing, just an fyi.  I have know many a troub who stay at ranged and just cast debuff after debuff after debuff and say they are doing their part.  Sure the debuffs may help, but there is alot more they could be doing, again not point the finger, just stating, is all.</span></b></p></blockquote>

[Dwergux]

I use my debuffs when I solo, mostly because of them being the first in  a HO.(Cheapshot and snare are my fovorites, defense debuff is one i use less often, depends on the duration of the fight)

[Pnaxx]

<p>I saw something today about using 2 Bows fer soloing.</p><p>The first one you use is a hard hitting, high damage bow, then once you are kiting switch to a faster bow and rinse and repeat with those as you snare. </p><p>Anyone else use this method and can speak to it?</p>

[Banditman]

I would tend to disagree.  I think you will too if you think about it.Our snare has a chance to break every time the mob receives damage.  The break chance doesn't care if you did 10 points of damage or 10,000 points of damage, the chance to break is the same.If I was going to kite something, I'd want to make sure that when I hit the mob, I hit it with the absolute biggest hits I possibly could.  Sure, I could hit it 5 times in 10 seconds for 500 HP each, or twice in 10 seconds for 1250 each.  I've done the same amount of damage, but using the faster weapon means I'm 2.5 times more likely to break snare.

[Pogopuschel]

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would tend to disagree.  I think you will too if you think about it.Our snare has a chance to break every time the mob receives damage.  The break chance doesn't care if you did 10 points of damage or 10,000 points of damage, the chance to break is the same.If I was going to kite something, I'd want to make sure that when I hit the mob, I hit it with the absolute biggest hits I possibly could.  Sure, I could hit it 5 times in 10 seconds for 500 HP each, or twice in 10 seconds for 1250 each.  I've done the same amount of damage, but using the faster weapon means I'm 2.5 times more likely to break snare.</blockquote>Indeed, switching to using a faster bow is a mistake.Unless it has a nice effect like Raincaller, that helps you with soloing.I personally don't like it, because procs are so unreliable. I'd rather use high hits from the distance and rely on my snare and mez.

[RanmaBoyType]

<p>I agree as well.  Myself i really don't "kite" when soloing, I may move back a bit while starting the fight just until snare breaks.  Once snare breaks im in melee for the rest of the fight, but id much rather have the higher hitting bow for the first hit.  I do not remember at all the name of the bow i have, but it has a 9 second delay and crits for over 5k.  I think it came from that named chokodai in seb.  It also has a power tap component to it.</p>

[Arba]

I have been doing this in my solo fights. Cheap Shot move for Taffo's hit Stealth Quick while doing Taffo and when Stealthed using Luckblade.  I see no mention of this. Is there any reason to not do this?

[Galim]

<p>You are all talking of snare as tho its the primary part of the spell.  To solo as a troub - except on the hardest of solo mobs - u should be able to stand toe to toe and kill it no probs.  </p><p> THE PRIMARY PART OF THE SNARE SPELL IS THE MENTAL DEBUFF</p><p> I wrote in capitals for emphasis - not to shout.  All a troubs damage is mental.  Firing the 'snare' right at the beginning is a priority - your dps depends on it.</p><p> For soloing go something like this.</p><p> 'Snare'</p><p>Shrill</p><p>Thunderous</p><p>ceremonial blade (cant remember low level name, but its 2 mental melee strikes)</p><p>Alins (the group DD spell)  it has a slower cast time - about the same as thunderous, but use it against solo mobs too.</p><p> If the mob is being stubborn and wont die, a good combo is Cheap Shot - run round back - Bump - Night Strike - Magic Debuff CA (name escapes me)</p><p>Loot corpse.</p><p> If you are taking on a really tricky mob, mezz and debuff is ok, but dont forget if you have aria buff up, any of your debuffs can proc aria and break mezz.  </p><p>If you are struggling dont forget to cast potm followed by jesters on yourself prior to engaging.</p><p>For solo AA lines, hit WIS, AGI, STA in any order - i have no idea which is a priority.  Try and get Bump also - useful for putting u in stealth on the fly.</p><p>BTW. I agree with RamnaBoyType.  Troubs arent just buffbots, i have been hitting 4k regularly (max buffs) in VP, although normal grouping allows me around 2.7-3.3k.  This is including casting all the good stuff such as Jesters, PotM and debuffs.</p>

[draxhellion]

<cite>Pnaxx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hey y'all. As I have been doing some fights, I wanted to fid out the best way to solo sontent that can be touch and go. So far I havn't died, but it's been close. I am only level 7 right now.</p><p>So, in general, do you all kite or just slug it out? Right now, if my memory se4rves me while I am at work, I do something like this...</p><p>1. Go stealth</p><p>2. Use stealth attack from behind</p><p>3. Snare</p><p>4. Mele attack</p><p>5. Spell for mental damage</p><p>6. Stun</p><p>7. Positional strike</p><p>8. Wait for refreshed hot keys and use as I can.</p><p>So , I am wondering, can I use stealth again during the fight? What about kiting? Can I do it, is it effective at my level? How to do it if I can.</p><p>I know that we get an in combat movemnet buff that will aid in kiting better, but until then is it viable?</p><p>Again, just looking for advise to play this the best I can.</p></blockquote><p>Is this in relation to pve or pvp? I do not treat both the same. </p><p> My game plan is this and i have no troubles on taking mobs my own level for pve which are even con ^^^ . I will open up with a nice backstab in stealth mode, and then cheap shot and then snare right away once i do this i open up the old kiting techs from eq1 people say that the twisting is gone... not for me.... i will switch my buffs if needed and at the end turn on the power regen ballard, but the whole time just avoid the mob keeping my snare(s) on using my sonnets and wis debuff dmg, etc.  </p><p>for PVP i do the same but it really depends on there class. For melee based types the old kiting trick works great (dirge reverse kiting), dot, stun, snare snare snare snare snare <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> shoot, etc.  </p><p>Also in the options make sure you turn off yer camera angles so you dont auto face. very bad for the bard.  </p><p>Unlike others as far as stats and what line to go down, do what you think is best. Us bards are talented personas meaning there is no bad stat you can choose... I get a kick out of people who stress the sta line it really depends on what your enivorment is, find what is best for you and stick with it but be open minded to trying new things.</p><p> Enjoy</p>