/ooc Thoughts From a (Mostly) Retired Writer…or Care & Feeding of Your Thread Authors

[valkry]

<p><u>Thoughts From a (Mostly) Retired Writer...or Care & Feeding of Your Thread Authors</u></p><p>It is with disappointment I read Ekkuth's last post on his thread, but I can understand his frustration. I decided not to search too hard for the missing flash drive with the unfinished "The Sisters" chapters, because I was feed up with writing.</p><p>While I will mention my interaction with other authors on this forum, all of the ideas here are solely mine. I do hope that this might allow regular forum readers, to see from the authors' view points, and understand reasons why we quit writing. </p><p>If you look at the "Recommended Reading" thread (stickied at the top of the board), you will see that a good percentage of the stories I listed are "unfinished" works. I specifically chose stories that had solid fan-bases and at least 50 replies before I would include an unfinished work. There were many, many more stories that died before reaching the ripe old age of 50 posts.</p><p>So why did these threads get abandoned? </p><p><i>We have lost authors because they left the game</i>. Even if you love the characters you have created and the way your story is going...if you don't have an account, you aren't going to be posting here. Not much we as the residence of this forum can do about that.</p><p><i>We lose many ‘Baby threads' that never fully get started</i>. It takes a pretty big leap of faith to post your first story. Epic, full-length or short story, it takes emotional guts to put your idea out where everyone can see it, and to wait for a reaction. I was only brave enough to attempt it during a very slow X-mas holiday, and after Ekkuth had finished his first book. While he will hate that I call him this, Ekkuth was the clear Poet Laureate of the forum, and I was chicken to have my tale compared directly his work.</p><p>It seems to take about 4-5 posts before there is any response for a new thread. Not knowing that at the times I started my tale, I kept writing after the first gut-wrenching days with no apparent interest at all. I lied to myself that it was the holidays & no one was reading the board, and with Ekkuth's tale finished...at least I was keeping the board from being totally dead.</p><p>It is scary to share your vision, and hear nothing...not even chirping crickets in response. If you scan back through pages of the forum, you will see lots of authors who post under 10 posts of a thread, hear nothing from the readers and the author disappears off the board. By failing to understand how critical a time the very beginning is to the author, we lose many good thread off this board, when just a tiny bit of encouragement, or even a neutral post..."Waiting to see where your story is going," would allow us to have more threads to follow.</p><p><i>Once the threads become fully established, we lose thread because the story stops writing itself.</i> I know there have been plenty of times when the dreaded writers block hits. I've e-mailed other forum authors to talk through ideas and tried to encourage them when their stories became difficult to write. Yep, we had a little author support group going on in the background to control our collective nerves & to stimulate ideas, so we could keep posting. </p><p>This is where you the reader, again, can help by giving feedback. Asks us questions (I use to beat Ekkuth up on his views on EQ2 biology, medicine and physics.), tell us the details that really stuck in your head. Little things that you notice encourage us to flesh out the story even more. When people noticed I was including NPCs from the Freeport area in my story, I started looking for more NPCs to include. Whole chapters/characters were developed simply because I saw an interesting NPC I could work with. Often that transition chapter was enough to move the story along to a place where the writing became easier.</p><p><i>With longer stories, the author can't handle the time involved, and the thread dies...</i>Writing is work, pure and simple. You might be able read a post in 10 mins, and even with re-readings manage to fill up a ½ an hour of time, but the post took the author closer to 10-20 times that to write it. </p><p>I write very ‘stream-of-consciousness,' yet I would average 3-7 rewrites per chapter. A sentence won't flow right in the story, but has a detail you need to foreshadow future events, so you have to rewrite the order of the paragraphs. You know what you want to say, but the language filter would obliterate ½ of the chapter, so you have to filter-proof your language. The chapter you are writing has details you personally don't know enough about, so you have to do research...you get your vet buddy to proof-read the chapter to get the military jargon to sound right, or in my case, I totally confused my husband when he tried to figure out why (for a week straight) I was suddenly watching "Pride Fighting" on the TV. Finally there are the technical issues to work through: spelling, punctuation, sentence structure, grammar, and typing-skills. I would reread my chapters over & over searching for the typo & the misspelled words even the spell-checker couldn't deal with...and there are still plenty that made it into the story.</p><p>A professional writer literally has hours set aside for writing. We don't. If we are lucky we can write during work hours, so it doesn't kill family time. If not you have to make the decisions, should I cook a real meal...or just throw together some mac & cheese, so I can write for a bit?.. should I be reading to my kids instead of writing?... maybe I should actually use some of my EQ time to <u>play</u> the game?... What we do get is only so many hours in the day...we get sick (bronchitis, heart-attacks), we change jobs or get new responsibilities, we spend time with our families, we fight through daily homework temper-tantrums, juggle household chores with our mates, get jury duty, fight nasty weather & bad commutes, spend time on things that are important to us (politics, church, scouting, D&D, SCA), we've had kids & buried relatives...in short we have lives that, like yours I'm sure, get complicated and we steal time where we can</p><p>So why do we write, if it takes so much time? The story is there. Its in your head, sometimes for years, and a bit like performing an exocism, you have to get it out of your mind-chatter. Maybe it's a way to deal with your own unresolved issues, without having to look to closely at them. So why post the stories? It builds the cyber-community we call Traveller's, and helps make the game so much more then just a game. It lets you see your self clearer by allowing you to see how other react to your thoughts and ideas. (It forces me to practice my spelling/punctuation by exposing me to ridicule if I don't make an effort to correct myself.)</p><p><i>Or the author becomes demoralized...</i> I am in this camp. I started to realize that I was getting fewer and fewer feedback posts. Why was I spending hours and hours working on something that only a few friends cared about reading?</p><p>Now maybe I'm not that great of an author, but I know there have been stories on this thread that are as good as, or better, then books I've seen in print. Instead of paying $10-20 for a book at Barnes & Noble or Borders, I get to read good stories right here, about the game I enjoy. So what do I give the author for payment...? Do you bother to stop and say thank you for something you enjoy? The small ego-stroke is the only payment these authors will get from this work...SOE won't even reprint the stories in their magazine, because they are ‘previously published' works.</p><p>I use to post often on individual threads, but once I realized I had one of the three most active stories on the forum, I stopped posting as many comments on the other writers' threads. I didn't want Traveler's to start to feel like ‘The Valkry Show.' But I e-mailed the other authors and PM'd new folks trying to give them encouragement privately.</p><p>By the time my flash-drive went missing, it felt like the only people commenting on my thread were the other authors. So I haven't bothered to search that hard for the drive. If my story wasn't worth a comment or two, it's not worth writing. If I do happen to randomly find the flash-drive, I'm thinking I might finish the story, but e-mail it to Niko, Ekkuth, and Kass...because they seemed to be the only ones who still cared about the tale.</p><p><i>Or the author feels unappreciated because of what is said in the comments</i>. We are sharing a glimpse into our souls. Positive comments encourage us to continue sharing, but remember we are SHARING, this is not something we OWE to anyone, but our own selves. You can tease, if you have shown you are a friend...but for someone who has not been supportive (and no, just reading the thread for months doesn't count if you have never bothered to /delurk and post a positive comment) to get demanding is wrong. Is your first thought when you realize an author has gone MIA..."gee, I hope everything is OK with <author's name>" or is it "No posts for a month, where is that guy/chick...I NEED MY STORY"? Are you willing to support the author, or are you just leeching and reading the thread?</p><p>Maybe a few people will read this and be able to see through the rant. I hope a few folks can realize this board works best with give and take. Hopefully we can support each other better in the future, I hate to see more good authors just give up.</p><p>/Gnome hops off the storage case for cleaning-powder, bends down to grab her soap-box, tucks it under her arm & walks off into the sunset (the home-decorating thread).</p>

[niko_teen]

<p>Niko's feeling grumpy and removing posts</p>

[Kahlef]

Ok. I never read any thread here despite being an avid reader. Don't ask me why.I only started to read this thread because the title caught my attention while seeing if there was a new message on the other forums I usually post.Anyhoo, as someone who likes to create stories and, when all the planets are aligned, try to write one I can understand perfectly the feelings both of you are trying to explain.I was going to say a few things about it as well but it was starting to sound too melodramatic so I will leave it to both of you who explained it much better.I will try to make this one of the regular forums I read and if I see a story I like to comment on it. Who knows, I might end up paying more attention to the NPCs around the city or all those details I am usually oblivious to unless someones point it out. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Ferunnia]

    Aye, it can get disappointing to look in on your latest chapter and see two, maybe three comments. I personally have been working on my El's story for a couple of years, and while it's nice to get a comment or two, a personal message or even constructive criticism would be nice.     Saying you like something isn't as encouraging as showing your interest by doing something above and beyond saying 'Woohooooo! Storrriiieeeee!' We all get that, and it's copy/paste after a while.     But yeah, I can see where Ekuth is coming from with his final post on Kinslayer's. The guy's put up with more pushiness than I believe I could have stood.     Whelp, I'll eventually finish my story, since there's only a few chapters left most likely, but doubt I'll ever post another one on these forums, it's a bit too much drudgery for me.

[Slask]

<p>We hardly get any comments on ours (Shadows of the Past), though I keep at it simply because I am enjoying writing it and it's a story about my main character (Asri) I really want to get out of my head and onto 'paper' so to speak.  So the 'lack' of comments don't really bother me and it's a pleasent surprise when we do get one.</p><p>I think it's due to developing 'thickened skin' from having dismul amounts of comments on my deviantart account. lol</p>

[niko_teen]

<p>Niko's feeling grumpy and removing posts</p>

[Alycs]

I like writing.  I am so-so at it, but I still enjoy it.  I enjoy reading what others write.  I do not EVER expect a post from any authors.  I try to put in feedback, yet...when it was so enjoyable and I can only write oh..YES!...*sighs*My current thread is something I've been doing for one of my characters for several months now. Something I'd wish I'd started two years ago when she was created.I am also re-writing a story I started a while back.But..this is for me and I share with others in the off chance they might be interested.Feedback is nice, pm's are nice.  Yet, it's not why I do it.  I do this for ME. *smiles*Dejenchri Seamstress - Venekor

[Jnom]

<p>I am guilty as one of the folks that can take a long time between posts. The transposition on a story from my head to the paper takes a certain mood at time. What I feel to be the right words, the right sentences, and right frame to express what my characters feel can be a hassle, but when that muse strikes, they can flow in torrents. Yet, despite being one of the longer stories on this forum with the fewest feedbacks, somehow eventually despite my lags between posts, I still crawl back here. I guess what it comes down to for me is that I really wanted to do this, to put down a creation to paper that I've had rattling in my head for the longest time. I love feedback, from authors and readers alike. Even just the happy dance Niko does makes me smile (you should see the one he does in kilts) or a pastry offer from Valk, but since I first started posting here I've learned that demanding feedback seldom gives the results you're looking for. So in the end I figured, if they like it, they like it. They don't, they stop reading. No point forcing the issue. The flip side of the coin is, write when you feel like it, and stop when you don't. </p><p>I think we pretty much all agree on the same thing.</p><p>1) We work hard on these stories, and we're quite attached to them as a result. They're our pets.</p><p>2) Feedback is nice, because it tells us our works are being read, which makes us happy and energized.</p><p>3) We do this because we want to, though, not because we're being forced to. Feedback or not, we're not doing this for money or for fame (well, ok, maybe some of us for fame...). In the end, this forum is both to entertain the authors and the readers. We're all SOE customers, and they're the ones making the money.</p><p>Best wishes to all you authors and readers out there.</p><p>-Jnom</p>

[valkry]

<p>Niko, hon, luv ya...but please stop confusing this thread with your issues... this is NOT about revenge.</p><p>What this was suppose to be was a gentle (ok, might have missed that part a bit) reminder to everyone to use your manners. Good old simple lessons that I am teaching my 5 & 6 yr olds.</p><p>1) If someone gives you a gift...it's polite to say thank you.</p><p>2) No one 'owes' you a gift. Grandma & Grandpa care about you, so they give you X-mas gifts...they don't owe you gifts.</p><p>3) Be happy with the gift you recieve. Even if it isn't the Wii (or whatever uber gift) you wanted, they still took time to think about you.</p><p>4) Try to be helpful. Mommy is more likely to bake cookies if you offer to help her (even if it is lil kid uneffective help, it shows you care too).</p><p>5) Be understanding. If Daddy says he can't take you to the park, there is probably a good reason he can't, even if he doesn't tell you the reason.</p><p>6) Be nice & think how the other person feels. If you think it is 'just playing,' but your lil sis comes crying to me...it's TEASING & don't do.</p><p>My sincere hope in writing this was to help everyone remember that these storys do require effort. It is easy to quit writting, but if we want to keep the stories alive and the board active, we need to keep having people willing to share their tales. I guess my hope is everyone will honestly ask themselves "What do I get from visiting this thread and what am I doing to make it even better?" Does it really take THAT much effort to be kind to each other?</p>

[niko_teen]

<p>Niko's feeling grumpy and removing posts</p><p>I'll jsut leave mt opinion authors do not owe lurkers anything same as the lurkers do not owe authors anything. BUT if you're enjoying one of the author's gifts to teh comunity it would be polite to let them know.</p>

[Deadwrong]

<p>I don't normally post in Traveler's Tales, the main reason being is, the lack of feedback here. I have found that I get more comments in the Fan Art section. Even there however, I don't get a lot of feedback.  If it wasn't for my website traffic tracker, I wouldn't have a clue to how many people are enjoying Jeriah every month. </p><p>What I have learned since I started writing Jeriah almost two years ago was,  if what you create what makes you happy, then, try not to live and die by the web postings of other people, just keep doing what you enjoy. </p><p>And that is what I intend on doing.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.jeriahbook.com" target="_blank">www.jeriahbook.com</a></p>

[valkry]

<p>To all the authors who do not want/need feedback from fans... thanks, I appriciate your input. (I don't think this is exactly the right thread for that topic as I did explicitly claim in the first post these were SOLELY my ideas and observations, but I appriciate the need you feel to make sure others know my impressions are completely my own.)</p><p>So I will try to refocus this topic by asking all the other writers....</p><p>If a reader wanted to know what they personaly could do to prevent more authors from abandoning threads, what suggestions would you give them?</p>

[Ekuthh]

<cite>valkry wrote:</cite><blockquote>If a reader wanted to know what they personaly could do to prevent more authors from abandoning threads, what suggestions would you give them?</blockquote>Easy.  Read <i>everything </i>you wrote at the top of this thread twice.

[niko_teen]

<p>I agree and disagree with Ekuthh's statement at the same time but the fact that there has not been an influx of feedback, leaves my ranting in PMs.</p><p>Feedback is not going to magically appear, Real life is going to happen and people are not going to pay 15$ a month to use the forums (after leaving the game). So we've got a bunch of people with their feelings hurt and nothing has changed. This will die out and those of us still writing can get back into a more productive (for writing) mind set and TT will still remain.</p>

[Mourti]

<p>So I decided to reactivate my account just to post on this topic. First off a big THANK YOU to all the authors, big, small, repeat posters, and one time posters. It makes my day so much better at work when i can look forward to reading your stories on my breaks. I have been a lurker for about 6 months and havnt posted for 2 reasons. One i have very limited time at work for the forums and i usually spend it trying to relax reading some small bit of escapism, and second because i am only a sporatic EQ2 player and inbetweeen binges i halt my account. During this month i will try to post when appropriate. I also hope you will accept my posts as the represenitive for what i imagine are the many people who are in a similar situation as myself who enjoy your stories but dont have a way to respond or may even be just to shy. Like all hobbies i hope you all will remember that when the hobby isnt fun and/or is causing more stress than release, take a break and ignore the posts that whine or insist, do your writing for yourself first, your close friends and peers second, and adoring/critical/pushy public last.</p><p>Thank You</p>

[Sordia]

I have to say, that one of the things that did keep me writing here was the feedback when it was gotten. Then the one story that made it to the recommended reading list. That and the one time one of my stories ended up in the Treasure Chest.It felt good to see that people actually read them, and took the time to comment on them.  My stories never made it even close to the 50th post mark.  I don't think I ever got that much feedback or response to them, and writers block and inspiration plays a huge part on if I write or I don't.When I write its because I have a story that needs to be written or it won't leave my head.  I am more inclined to share it when I write when I feel that someone else is reading what I write.I keep thinking I'll get back to writing, but then somehow be it time, or lack of inspiration or life in general I don't do it.I do want to thank everyone who ever posted positive feedback or constructive criticism on any post I've made here.  Also, I'd like to thank the other authors who keep posting and writing for people to read their works.  I know its a lot to ask to put yourself out there, and I think the worst part of that for me is silence when you don't know how something is received.  So thank you.

[Kassabba]

Ask any writer if they wish they could quit and be a dentist or carpenter and most of them will tell you YES!  You only have to read Val's list to see why.  I assure you forum authors that you are not alone in your laments, every proffesional writer has gone through the same thing, even the established ones.  When I first started writing and gave serious thoughts of doing it for a living I sought the advice of a very well known writer that I respected and he told me to RUN AWAY!  Smash the typewriter, delete Word, throw away the pens and take up bowling as a hobby. Anything other that writing.You write because you have to.  You write because the story demands it. You write because your characters deserve it.  You write because no matter which way you start out your mind always returns to the story.The good news is that there is no feeling like the completion of a story.  I cant vouch for painters or poets but taking a fleeting daydream or fragment of thought and fleshing it out into a coherent tale is an experiance like none other.The bad news is that eventually your story has to leave the notebook and be presented to readers and trying to please readers is like trying to please a sugar stoked three year old in a toy store.  Readers can never understand what goes into crafting even a short story let alone a longer tome.  I could fill reams on the fickle nature of reader but let it suffice to say that they are not to be trusted for encouragement.  Readers are under the impression that you as the writer have entered a compact with them that you will supply them with entertainment and they will either take it or leave it.  Get used to it.All I can say is that you should not let the lack of feedback discourage you.  Write for the right reasons and the rest of it becomes unimportant.

[Pyra Shineflame]

<p>A very good post Val, I understand completely. I usually limit myself to stories I think I'll enjoy writing but unfortunately that's more than one and balancing time between everything else catches up to people. I really have nothing to say other than that I don't think writers can just go cold turkey from being an author</p><p>It's in your blood, heart and mind. Foolishness and harsh feedback (or none) might kill your fire but you'll remember your writing accomplishments and that makes even trying worth while, in my opinion.</p>

[Xada]

I think lack of feedback is a big problem. It's probably one of the reasons I haven't posted anything to begin with. I don't want to take the step of putting myself out there, just to have almost no one acknowledge me. I can think of a certain author that I know, and think is very talented, that this happened to on two stories now. It's a shame.

[gi]

<p>For me I don't get a lot of time to read the stories , and generally post suggestion/opinions on the gameplay forums. I take on board what the OP says here, taking a minute after you read the story to leave somes comments should not be that hard. I will certainly make an effort next time I read something in the story section.</p><p>I posted my first part of my Story earlier this year "Diary of an Epic journey", and I have made several additions since, but not completed it yet, even though my epic has been done and dusted for sometime now. Although I came up with the idea of my story to chronicle the journey of my character for my own amusement. Something I could read back in a few years about the game I love playing. I posted it here because I thought it was interesting and something other eq2 players might find interesting, reading an account of another classes epic journey, and maybe even remind them of there own. Although I don't expect comments, I agree its nice to get them for sure, at least then you know someone has taken the time to read it.</p>

[Carnedge]

<p>wow... i didnt read that whole thing.... i think i made it through the first sentence. I dont like reading. Hurt my brains. Need to go pick up something heavy.</p>

[Chips]

<p>well the last time i read this forum i was reading ekuth's story about scratch the ratonga and his dark elf buddy who</p><p>wanted to study multiple forms of magic in freeport. it was a while ago and i forget the details BUT i simply stopped</p><p>reading this forum cause no other story caught my attention the way his did. and RL issues like landing a full time job</p><p>after being unemployed for almost 2 years, rebuilding a home after water damage,and trying to become my old self after</p><p>holed up playing a MMO for those 2 years. my advice to authors would be to write your stuff on multiple web sites and</p><p>you will get a bigger audience, and if it a cool enough story you may draw in more people from other MMO's to eq2.      </p>

[MysticTrunks01]

<p>When I do my writing  it's first and foremost for me.  I keep in mind that others may or may not read it, friends or strangers.   Getting a response from anything i post in Eternal Drifter is always fantastic and nice, good or constructive. </p><p>Not getting one kind of stinks but the fact that i wrote and know someone has read it, even just one kid in Ohio, with out leaving feedback is still plenty more and flattering to boot.</p><p>Myself, i rarely have the time to do more than skim the stories here with RL and my own guild, and that's not really fair to leave feedback on something i don't fully read.  RL stinks btw gets in the way of fun stuff.</p><p>Anyone however, that posts a story here, has Kudos from me.  It takes a lot to post something you did yourself and created leaving it out there for everyone to see.  It takes a lot more from some than others but still, anyone that posts a story or series is doing good.</p>