Warden vs. Multiple Mobs? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Zwildstar

04-21-2008, 12:14 PM

How does a Warden handle multiple mobs? So far at level 26 I have ONE AoE attack and it is a root.Currently handling 3 greens or even blues is easy enough since warden's HoTs can keep up with the damage, but I know EQ2 was not designed as a solo game and soon I will be finding grouped mobs that my HoTs can not handle, especially in TS or Nek zones.So my question is: Preferred method to handle "tough" grouped mobs?

OldBlueDragon

04-21-2008, 03:00 PM

EQ2 may or may not be considered a solo or solo friendly but regardless there is tons of solo content. So much so that group fiends seem to complain endlessly about how solo oriented the game is.In any case, I (mostly) soloed a warden from 1 - 80 so it can be done, and done in a reasonable period of time.As far as multiple targets, root & nuke is your best tactic so preferred method would be to root the closest target then back out of range, DoT it and move to the next target. root or snare that one and back away then melee/nuke the third target while switching to re-target and drop new DoTs & nukes on the other two each time you refresh the root.But since most mobs are no longer physically connected, this shouldn't be an issue in most cases. Just watch out for the increased social aspect of MoB behavior that replaced the group connection between them.My personal preference is to never take on more than 1 or 2 at a time. I can handle an add or even two but after 3 mobs, it does get pretty dicey!

Zwildstar

04-21-2008, 03:16 PM

Thanks, that is basically how I saw it needed to be done.I just leveled a Dirge from 1-20 and loved it, but then I got my 1st add and went ... OMG, I don't have any buttons to handle a add. I am going to keep the dirge but will have to be alot more careful what I pull if I play it again.So far I am just powering through mobs as the warden. I have the three melee CAs and just started down the STR tree last night. I need more AAs. lol

branvil

04-22-2008, 05:32 PM

We really don't come with much AOE damage but good, fast burst damage can even the odds pretty fast. You know it's funny. All the way up to RoK I used to not really care to much about groups or adds, I just kinda did my thing and eventually all the mobs were dead.. But man, when RoK came out I really had to start watching what I did. They just hit so much harder and if your not paying attention and a couple of adds wonder up on you, you really have a fight ahead of you.

OldBlueDragon

04-22-2008, 09:02 PM

It's not just that the MoBs hit harder in RoK (although they surely do!), but also that so many of them have trauma DoTs that often seem to land as though their skills were maxed out and my resists were non-existent! As far as dealing with multiple adds, if the fight goes south, remember that evac is your friend... when in doubt, bail out!

valalorn

04-23-2008, 03:38 AM

Hello, this is my first post ever in a forum as well as the first time I ever really wanted to answer or participate in a discussion. The question you asked is one that has really peaked my interest so here is my attempt to possibly lends some information that is hopefully valuable to your endeavours as a Melee Warden.First, I would like to say welcome to the class. The Melee Warden is truly a fantastic char to be played because of the versatility it provides to the adventurer in how he wants to level thru the game. For me specifically it I have always tried to identify the min/max. (and that is not in terms of casual gameplay to endgame or in direct correlation to high end/low end gear to maximize dps/healing etc) For me Min/max" has been pushing the envelope with whatever gear I have against the environment I am in (ie the mobs). With that being said, my experience leveling a Melee Warden has been truly a eye opening and enjoyable experience. In respects to your specific question allow me to answer this way (I do not want to take away the fun of exploring for yourself). As I gained AA points at lvl 10 and beyond, I spent all my points into turning my combat spells into CA's, including the AoE CA. From that point on unless I was specifically taking on a specific target (Named heroics) all I ever did was pull groups of mobs. It did not matter whether it was linked group mobs or if I had to run in a circle to get non-linked single mobs together. Why did I do this, because I assessed speed of kills/xp in realtion to mana/health status and it was the most efficient (and fun-for me) means to xp. I started doing this as soon as I got AoE CA (mid twenties pre-RoK) and never looked back. My downtime was minimal pre-Spirit of the Bat (is that the name have not played my warden in awhile due to peronal life)The and after I was pulling multiple mobs (linked and not-linked) with no downtime unless I truly exceeded the number of mobs I could handle. How many mobs does this mean? The amount of mobs you can handle depends on quality of your gear aswell as your spells of course but it also depends on your ability to determine how to execute. I think this varies greatly for each player. For meas an example, using my time in Tenebrous tangle (lvl 52-58 solo) at lvl 56 I was pulling 4-8 mobs at a time (some linked pairs with 1up non linked mobs) per pull and I would rinse and repeat until all mobs were dead. This is in vic of the transport to other isles and HoS (is that right memory is soft). The bad part of that spot is that spawn rate was slower than my kill rate. I like that area because solo xp rate was unreal (less than 2hrs per lvl with vit). There is many other areas thru out T3-T7 where you can do same thing. I know you may want to know more specifics but it would ruin it for you. Just pull more and more mobs until you find what you can handle (equip/spells/ability) and enjoy the challenges of trying to do one more.For me it was a true joy. I also liked tanking and group play but I mainly soloed (95%) 1-78. I usually grouped for AA discovery or to tank. I have tanked pre-RoK most instances and that was a blast. I know it does nto answer your specific question (maybe?) but for me multi-mob pulls while soloing was the best and only way for me. FYI, Warden was my fastest lvling class (Swash, Rgr, SK, Monk) and I think all of my toons lvl very quickly in relation to peopel I played with especially when looking at playtime ratios. Have fun.HmmWarden of Kithicor

Meirril

04-23-2008, 05:13 AM

Solo mobs arn't much of a danger until you hit RoK. Then they become a serious threat.Heroic mobs in any tier are a serious threat though. While its possible for us to kill single mob heroics, taking on multiple heroic mobs is a good way to increase your repair bill.Keep rooting all of them, and burning down one. This applies to melee wardens as well as nukers. Pick one and kill it if the mobs are tough. If they arn't tough then just heal through it and kill. Healing through it generaly works until you hit RoK. Did I mention they are more dangerous in RoK? Killing 1 mob at a time is the key to victory in RoK. Roots let you do this.

Zwildstar

04-23-2008, 10:22 AM

I did the avaiak quests in BBM last night and those birds on the ramp (predators and scavangers) resisted my nukes and I had alot of misses on my attacks. It was insane.I actually was OOM after I got one add just because I had of all the misses and resists. I had to melee down a 2nd add, luckily it was green so tigerform + smallest heal got me through the long OOM fight. Good thing that came out of it was that I gained 12 points of Crush. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Druids like pretty much every class I played in EQ2 so far are great till you get a few resists or misses and it is one of the things that I am starting to hate about EQ2. So far the best combo for me has been:Fire DD > HO > Cold DoT > Fire CA > HO > Cold DD CA > Fire CA (most greens are dead or sliver of health) Rinse and repeat till mob is dead for non-greens. I throw the small HoT in between usually but not really required unless I have a add. I currently have Fire CA: 4, Cold DD CA: 4 and Cold DoT CA: 2, but next AA points are going towards topping them off. I left that at this level so I could increase my STR hoping it would help with the misses and resists. Correct me if I am wrong but it looks like the Melee CAs are using the melee ToHit chance not the Spell ToHit chance????

Torri

04-23-2008, 12:21 PM

<cite>Zwildstar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I did the avaiak quests in BBM last night and those birds on the ramp (predators and scavangers) resisted my nukes and I had alot of misses on my attacks. It was insane.I actually was OOM after I got one add just because I had of all the misses and resists. I had to melee down a 2nd add, luckily it was green so tigerform + smallest heal got me through the long OOM fight. Good thing that came out of it was that I gained 12 points of Crush. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Druids like pretty much every class I played in EQ2 so far are great till you get a few resists or misses and it is one of the things that I am starting to hate about EQ2. So far the best combo for me has been:Fire DD > HO > Cold DoT > Fire CA > HO > Cold DD CA > Fire CA (most greens are dead or sliver of health) Rinse and repeat till mob is dead for non-greens. I throw the small HoT in between usually but not really required unless I have a add. I currently have Fire CA: 4, Cold DD CA: 4 and Cold DoT CA: 2, but next AA points are going towards topping them off. I left that at this level so I could increase my STR hoping it would help with the misses and resists. Correct me if I am wrong but it looks like the Melee CAs are using the melee ToHit chance not the Spell ToHit chance????</blockquote>Well, making sure your spell casting and melee skills are maxed for your level will help with misses and resists. At level 26 you get a single target melee skill buff that will make the occasional miss seem a rare event rather than the norm. Spells I tend to get resisted more, but I did not build a casting spec myself. My effects tend toward melee bonuses or healing bonuses when I group, so I don't have much more than max level casting skills. Also at 35 you get a single target Bat spell from the Bloodlines Adventure Pack that has a nice in combat power regen effect, so it'll take a lot more than one add to run out of power.Strength has no effect on your chance to hit, all it does is determine how hard you hit when you do. Chance to hit is all weapon skill. You obviously have the skill lagging behind if you got 12 crushing skill ups in the battle you mentioned. This is a big reason you're missing so much. Melee CA do indeed use your weapon skill on their check to land, so with weak weapon skills you'll also miss your CAs more often. If you just stick with it and get them maxed (And do your best to keep both crush and slash maxed, you never know when you will loot a weapon that is an big upgrade statwise. It'd be a shame for all that increased damage potential to swing and miss because your slashing skill is 6/150 )In the spirit of keeping your skills maxed (Yes, you want to keep the casting skill maxed even if melee spec'd) I'd swap the fire DD opening for a snare to work your subjugation skill.Personally I've never had any trouble at all with groups of mobs or adds once I was in my 30's and beyond. When I was in my upper 60's I was grinding KoS mobs to conserve Achievement discovery experience because I had 95+ points already, I think the most I pulled was 12 or 13 lower 62-64's Vultaks Plat farmer style and just AE'd and melee'd them down. In fac one farmer tried repeatedly to train me without sucess because I just killed them or did not AE any more. RoK mobs do hit harder, but I was not having any problems with adds in Kylong Plains while still wearing level 62 Mastercrafted wisdon armor at 70 and 71. At 80 I can melee 3 yellow con mobs in the Skyfire section of Jarsath Wastes and survive with Battledruid faction armor and a Legendary 2 hand baton quest reward weapon.

branvil

04-23-2008, 12:38 PM

<cite>Torri@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote> RoK mobs do hit harder, but I was not having any problems with adds in Kylong Plains while still wearing level 62 Mastercrafted wisdon armor at 70 and 71. At 80 I can melee 3 yellow con mobs in the Skyfire section of Jarsath Wastes and survive with Battledruid faction armor and a Legendary 2 hand baton quest reward weapon.</blockquote>Wow.. I was running around KP in a mix of KOS/EOF fabled gear and white con adds or higher would beat me like a drum when I was 70.

valalorn

04-23-2008, 01:01 PM

Torri, great post. I agree as a warden in RoK it was pretty easy and fast soloing thru the quest. I varied from single to multi-mob pulls in KP thru the jungle while I was still playing. For a warden in RoK, if you get adds/mobs greater than 4, the concern is not about surviving, it is about winning or having to casually disengage <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Sorry for digressing from the original post Z. My god I am becoming a forum junkie lol.Hmm

Zwildstar

04-23-2008, 02:12 PM

I am only 29.2 currently, what is this "jungle"? LOLAnyways, I realized that melee skill was used for CAs AFTER I was on the aviak ramp in BBM. I purchased a new hammer when I got to 27 (The named One hander) and never used one prior so needless to say skill was pretty low. When I realized that many, many CA were being resisted, I switched to nuking instead of CAs, but mana was already gone. After slowly killing 15 of each bird I went down to the beach and auto-attacked basilisk for 30 minutes and got my crush skill up.Besides Defense, none of my skills are maxed, even Disruption that gets spammed 6 times a fight is not maxed, but maybe the CAs are not considered Disruption? (reading the description I am thinking that they are not) Which attribute effects how fast skill gains anyways? INT? I hope the heck WIS effects our spells and not INT since I barely have any.As for the Root opener, aye I use that occasionly when I am bored and want a laugh as the poor rooted mob's expense. I need to get a ranged weapon (can druids even use one?) to fill in the long pauses between DD recycle times. With the 3 HoTs, I have had no problem yet fighting multiple mobs. I even pulled 10 vvv's last night to see how I would do. No problem.

Torri

04-23-2008, 06:47 PM

<cite>Zwildstar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am only 29.2 currently, what is this "jungle"? LOLIt's a 70+ zone from RoK. Also, I did not mean to sound like I was bragging when I said I never had trouble with RoK mobs. I'm sure caster wardens can do the same thing. It's just a matter of playstyleAnyways, I realized that melee skill was used for CAs AFTER I was on the aviak ramp in BBM. I purchased a new hammer when I got to 27 (The named One hander) and never used one prior so needless to say skill was pretty low. When I realized that many, many CA were being resisted, I switched to nuking instead of CAs, but mana was already gone. After slowly killing 15 of each bird I went down to the beach and auto-attacked basilisk for 30 minutes and got my crush skill up.Besides Defense, none of my skills are maxed, even Disruption that gets spammed 6 times a fight is not maxed, but maybe the CAs are not considered Disruption? (reading the description I am thinking that they are not) Which attribute effects how fast skill gains anyways? INT? I hope the heck WIS effects our spells and not INT since I barely have any.No, CAs are not considered disruption. Like I said, CAs do not check against casting skills, they will check against your weapon skill (Crush or slash, whihchever type of weapon you have equipped. You have to cast the spell versions to increase your disruptionAs for the Root opener, aye I use that occasionly when I am bored and want a laugh as the poor rooted mob's expense. I need to get a ranged weapon (can druids even use one?) to fill in the long pauses between DD recycle times. No, Druids cannot use ranged weapons, but I can cast fire nuke, cold DoT/Debuff and cold nuke and the fire nuke is ready to go again. The cold nuke has a little longer refresh, I usually would throw in a snare for another chance at a subjugation skill up while waiting for nukes to refresh. With the 3 HoTs, I have had no problem yet fighting multiple mobs. I even pulled 10 vvv's last night to see how I would do. No problem.That's always fun to do <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>

Meirril

04-24-2008, 01:22 AM

<cite>Zwildstar wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Besides Defense, none of my skills are maxed, even Disruption that gets spammed 6 times a fight is not maxed, but maybe the CAs are not considered Disruption? (reading the description I am thinking that they are not) Which attribute effects how fast skill gains anyways? INT? I hope the heck WIS effects our spells and not INT since I barely have any.</blockquote>Stats don't affect how fast you gain skills. If you have a huge difference in your current skill level vs your max level you'll skill up slightly more often than you would otherwise. Run around killing green/grey mobs and you'll skill up fast. Take a little longer and let auto attack do more damage for more chances at skill ups. Or use the real nukes to get disruption up faster. If you want to keep leveling fast, group in blue con or lower dungeons so you'll have time to practice combat skills/spells while healing.

Arielle Nightshade

04-24-2008, 02:24 AM

<cite>Torri@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zwildstar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am only 29.2 currently, what is this "jungle"? LOLIt's a 70+ zone from RoK. Also, I did not mean to sound like I was bragging when I said I never had trouble with RoK mobs. I'm sure caster wardens can do the same thing. It's just a matter of playstyleI'm a nuking/rooting warden, and didn't have trouble with these mobs - they are HORRIBLY social though, which was the only problem. Personally, I think they are bored. Bored enough to come across the zone if you are hitting someone that even looks like them - like in Feerrott, only they hit harder. I did a combination of root/nuke,and let whatever FoTD charmed animal I had ...do all the work.Anyways, I realized that melee skill was used for CAs AFTER I was on the aviak ramp in BBM. I purchased a new hammer when I got to 27 (The named One hander) and never used one prior so needless to say skill was pretty low. When I realized that many, many CA were being resisted, I switched to nuking instead of CAs, but mana was already gone. After slowly killing 15 of each bird I went down to the beach and auto-attacked basilisk for 30 minutes and got my crush skill up.Besides Defense, none of my skills are maxed, even Disruption that gets spammed 6 times a fight is not maxed, but maybe the CAs are not considered Disruption? (reading the description I am thinking that they are not) Which attribute effects how fast skill gains anyways? INT? I hope the heck WIS effects our spells and not INT since I barely have any.No, CAs are not considered disruption. Like I said, CAs do not check against casting skills, they will check against your weapon skill (Crush or slash, whihchever type of weapon you have equipped. You have to cast the spell versions to increase your disruptionINT affects how hard your nukes hit. STR affects how hard your combat arts hit. INT only affects in melee with regard to poison users..and poison proc'ing. Skill gains happen with use of the skill. If you want better focus, forget the root a time or two and fight while getting hit, Defense skills up when you get hit, crushing when you use a crush weapon, slashing with a slash weapon. WIS is, among other things, your power pool, though..and as such is pretty important, especially at the lower levels. If you hit "P" for your persona window and mouse over each skill, it will tell you what it does, and how far below or close to your level for it you are. As for the Root opener, aye I use that occasionly when I am bored and want a laugh as the poor rooted mob's expense. I need to get a ranged weapon (can druids even use one?) to fill in the long pauses between DD recycle times. No, Druids cannot use ranged weapons, but I can cast fire nuke, cold DoT/Debuff and cold nuke and the fire nuke is ready to go again. The cold nuke has a little longer refresh, I usually would throw in a snare for another chance at a subjugation skill up while waiting for nukes to refresh. I am an elf, and think I SHOULD get a bow...but../grumble... Your only ranged is a nuke, and it will pull the mob whether resisted or not. If, however, you are finding your nukes resisted on mobs that are even con or below, make sure you work to get that skill current with your level. If you are melee, you don't need nuking skills, but if you go a bunch of levels without skilling those up very much, then decide you want to change, you have to take the time to do it or you won't be effective. Better to do it as you go, IMO. Same goes for weapons skills. Swap out between crushing and slashing, even though you are going to have a favorite, for sure.And I agree with Torri's idea of casting snare, root and wisp whenever it's available (be careful with Wisp...its AoE...), to not only keep your subjugation high, but to get used to that spell being available to you. It will save your butt one day. If you are a PvP Warden, or ever want to do well in a duel, non-maxed subjugation is going to be a problem for you. Rooting is class defining for us. We have like..5 different chances at rooting/slowing a mob (eventually)...if your subjugation isn't good you are missing out on a really awesome ability, IMO.With the 3 HoTs, I have had no problem yet fighting multiple mobs. I even pulled 10 vvv's last night to see how I would do. No problem.That's always fun to do <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Agree <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Also, remember pretty much all your heals are direct heals, with a HoT component. You will not be healing to your best advantage if you are thinking they are only regens. You do more than that! You can also do the Splitpaw quests for another heal spell that is on a separate timer from most of the ones you have currently. It's a great heal till about level 50 or so...then we have all argued whether it's still useful after that. It's called.."Blessing of the Vine"? is that right? Bah. Someone will remember. It's off my hotbar now..but was good for awhile! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Edited because if you think THIS color is obnoxious, you should have seen the one I picked first.../whistle</blockquote></blockquote>

Zwildstar

04-24-2008, 09:30 AM

Thanks for the replies.INT effects spell damage??? Ouch! I guess I better start looking for +INT jewelry because rarely do I see a +INT piece of leather.

Meirril

04-24-2008, 08:10 PM

<cite>Arielle Nightshade wrote:</cite> <blockquote><blockquote><blockquote>Edited because if you think THIS color is obnoxious, you should have seen the one I picked first.../whistle</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>It couldn't be any harder on the eyes than Win-win pink.Unless you did something silly like charcoal grey.

Arielle Nightshade

04-24-2008, 08:47 PM

I thought it was a soft, yet readable pink. It ended up one tone sharper than Win-Win pink....which already makes your eyes bleed!

Zwildstar

04-25-2008, 10:01 AM

Well I was sent to Splitpaw prison last night... opps, I learned something new about EQ2... adventure packs. LOLI did not do too well against 3 even con gnolls right outside the prison. Opps, my experience with adventure packs ended pretty quickly.Sadly I was turning in for the night when I was sent there and what was worse was that I was level 29.9 and the instance would have gotten alot easier after 2-3 kills. I even had all my level 30 gear in my bags. *cries* I was tempted to stay up and try the instance but a quick recon while camo'd showed that there were alot of gnolls to kill and it most likely would have taken me more than a hour to find my way out of the instance.

Arielle Nightshade

04-25-2008, 01:13 PM

If you are careful, you don't get in prison at all. That's not part of it, that's something to be avoided. Those mobs are a static level (outside the entrance), but once you are inside the first instance (nearest the gnoll crater, and there's one right on the other side, too) the instance scales to you. You should not be fighting 3 of anything you can't handle...once you are inside. It's not easymode, but it's not horribly uncomfortable either, IMO. If you were 29.9, you should have easily dinged, then been able to finish the instance that had set itself to your 29-ness when you entered...quite handily.My 'trick' to avoid the Abductor mobs is to go past the gnoll crater, hugging the mountains on the left side, heading toward Thundermyst Village. Once you get to the first Splitpaw Entrance by the little lake there, if you invis (using a totem of the chameleon) and approach it from behind ...you'll avoid the abductors altogether and get into "Sundered Spiltpaw, the Delving", not "Sundered Splitpaw...Abducted.." or w/e the prison one is called. You don't even have to invis if you are quick. As soon as you zone in, move yourself back into the middle of the platform you are standing on to avoid being jumped by 2 patrolling gnolls. After that, you can work your way around the instance carefully till you learn where the mobs are.Once you get to the bottom of it and kill the last guy, he drops a key that opens a box that gives you entry into the BIG Splitpaw Den...that entrance is near Coldwind Cove, over by the Skindancers. Since it's kind of out of the way, and that adventure pack is a decent place to quest, loot and level till about 50...really good for those times when you are almost about to ding but you have gone through all the quests in the area you are in, are only left with heroic quests, not big enough for the next area yet, and don't have or don't want a group. Just pop into Splitpaw, kill a few gnolls, and ding <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm more fond of the Bloodlines pack (some people say they hate it, but I like the lore of it) than Splitpaw, but it's kind of nice to have the option, and very affordable

Zwildstar

04-25-2008, 01:45 PM

I assumed after my little recon that the instance was going to take more than a hour to complete and it was already 11:00pm. I got jumped by 3 single patrols outside the cage. I did not see anything after I jumped over the wall so camo'd up one of the paths and saw 3 mobs so ran back to the cage and a even con patrol was coming into the room so I started killing him. While killing him another blue con patrol jumped in. No problem. But then another even jumped in right as I was finishing the 1st and my health took a big hit... maybe a caster patrol? Either way, I had all 3 HoTs ticking away and they were not keeping my health up, so popped the instant heal and ran up a random tunnel just to get a "look" at where the tunnel actually went before I died. I will most likely return at level 30.9 to try it again. But this time I took the "free" trip to TS docks which is where I was heading orginally before getting sent to prison.Sad part is I still need that gnoll eye. LOL

Zwildstar

05-08-2008, 09:21 AM

I am actually amazed on the sheer survivibilty of a Warden. In a sleepy trance I ran past a orc in Zek that I did not see and when I turned around to kill him, I saw he brought about 6 of his no arrow blue friends... yes I was OOM after the last one fell, but they fell and not me.I am melee CA 4/4/4/4 specced though, so that helped alot. Plus the silly wood elf AoE racial comes in handy.