How do we get attention....?

[Bruener]

<p>Ok, so I just read Aeriliks post in the Coercer forums about his plan for LU45.  Basically giving tons of loving to Coercers.</p><p>I am fine with that.  I think Coercers need lots of loving...BUT, the SK class has had just as many issues for just as long as the Coercers, if not longer.  And not once can I remember a LU that was largely for our class, nor can I think of anytime when a Dev has actually made a post in our forums acknowledging our issues and talking about possible fixes.</p><p>I mean come on, seriously.  [Removed for Content] do you have to do to get the Dev's ear?  I mean on the post in the Dev's Roundtable about what classes they should play on test the 3 top "BROKEN" classes were Bezerker, Coercer, and SK.  Again I would be fine and dandy with this, but I guarantee our class has had issues for a lot longer than the Coercer class...it is only recently that the Illusionist has become so tempting versus the Coercer that a lot of them betrayed.</p><p>IDK, I am kind of at the end of my rope I guess.  Each day I look more forward to AoC simply for the fact that Dev's won't even take the time to acknowledge that SK's have some serious issues when it comes to end game content.  A few of you can argue this all you want, but the fact of the matter is that SK's are not actively recruited at all because there is nothing that they can really bring to the table that another good player in a different class can.</p>

[KamidariTuibumbi]

I think it actually seems hopeful.  The #1 voted class to look at just got some attention, so hopefully that means we're in the near future, since we were near the top.I play both classes, with my SK as my main (lucky me, two of the top 3!), and I definitely think the Coercer had larger issues, so I have no problems with them getting some loving first.

[Naithachal]

<p>How get the DEV's attention?</p><p>Praise them or be a Fanboy. Check out Posts where someone praise DEV's for something well done and u see often 2-3 of them answering. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Jurmoon]

<p> Not to be a negative nelly, but SK's are done.  I have never seen a dev even acknowledge the problems the class faces, let alone attempt to fix them.  I can see two bright spots in this however...</p><p> 1. Age of Conan has a shadowknight style character that actually works quite well.</p><p> 2. You can pretty much say whatever you want in the shadowknight forums cause the devs and moderators don't come here. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Nakash]

The generell Problem with getting attention to the Problems SK classhas that there arent not many Main Char SKs left, but everyone and hisroommaid has an SK Alt. So the nummbers for SK are OK forSony. But the Problems in the class in the raid end game for the classslip through their attention. If sometimes some of the problems arestated by the few left Mainchar SKs that are confronted with this problemsthen enough other people show up and say it is not so, but talking aboutthe game expirience they had when they rock with their Sk for examplein group play (wich is fine btw). So the focus a reader must get is "opinions differs but all in all the class is in balance. It would help very much if everyone that brings up a concern or opinionwould shortly discribe of wich part of the game hes talking about :   eg: Crusader>Paladin>                                         >Shadowknight>Soloplay                                               >Grpplay                                              >Raid>T2-T7                                               >T8>Raid Tier 1-3                                                    >Raid Tier 4-5                                                     >Avatars>Aggro                                                                   >Spells                                                                   >Damage< Not nessesary to use exact this but to specify what you are talkingabout would maybe help very much to avoid missunderstandingsabout what is talked. And maybe would point out to the devs wherea problem is that has to be adressed. Its unlike Coercerswhere they maybe just get knowlegde about the Problem because thenumber of coercers goes back. But with more SK Alts then Mainchars theywill not see it by the number. Dont get me wrong i have nothing against Alts, its just that to that SK problem falls through the grid. An other thought that gets me is maybe the marketing department willrediscover SK if other games will bring classes that are similar. Maybethe Deathknight in WOW or the Dark Templar in AoC. But I think they would even get know if the last SK Main char would be gone to the point stated above. lets hope they will get it and there is someone who likes the class and takes more then a look.  

[Aull]

<p>I do not play a coercer, but do play a shadowknight and I am excited that the coercer class is getting a response from a dev. It is so great to see a dev actually take time to evaluate the class and make some posts giving information as to what is on his mind for that class.</p><p>Will the sk's be next? Not really sure anyone can answer that question, but I do feel that we as sk's or any class that needs attention (berserkers, bruisers, ect...) do not need to cuss or complain. Lets be positive.</p><p>Thanks</p>

[Nole]

<p>The raid game seems like it's such a small part of the game, if that's the only place SKs have a problem, then maybe we don't really have a big problem. I've certainly not run into one levelling up. Heck there's even levels where I can solo level appropriate group dungeons (talk about not having a problem in group content, lol).</p><p>If most SKs are alts as you say, than most SKs probably haven't run into problems yet.</p>

[Darkc]

<p>The difference is that Coercers are pretty gimped in every way, except a few buffs and abilities that make them wanted in MT groups.  The problem with SKs isn't really the class itself, but the fact that most raids run with tons of bards / enchanters, leaving little room for extra tanks.  Not matter what we get, Guardian WILL be the prefered raid MT.... so we're competing with 5 other fighter classes for "maybe" 2 extra spots on a raid.  Yeah, we can get a few fixes here and there... but if you look at the other non Guardian fighter boards they're pretty much a copy / paste of the "issues" we have as a class.  </p>

[Beldin_]

<cite>Jurmoon wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Not to be a negative nelly, but SK's are done.  I have never seen a dev even acknowledge the problems the class faces, let alone attempt to fix them.  I can see two bright spots in this however...</p><p> 1. Age of Conan has a shadowknight style character that actually works quite well.</p><p> 2. You can pretty much say whatever you want in the shadowknight forums cause the devs and moderators don't come here. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>I remember before EoF 2 of the biggest concerns here were that Deathmarch was totally useless, and that we need INT instead of WIS for power.</p><p>A while later Deathmarch was changed, and with EoF our powerpool was changed to depend on INT instead of WIS. </p><p>So i think, even if you don't see devs here posting, they read also this forum.</p><p>The other question however is .. do we really want a "fix" from Aeralik ? Everyone who also has a ranger may know what i mean with that <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p>

[Giral]

<p>eq2 at release = Sk not needed for raids </p><p>Dof = sk not needed for raids </p><p>Kos = sk not needed for raids </p><p>EOF = sk not needed for raids </p><p>ROK = sk not needed for raids </p><p>simple fact of the matter is that Shadowknights are already by there design a class that has many checks to keep them held back from performing there Job = to Other tanks  , tuant over time, interupts on casts, need sta,intel,str,agil, have lowest Hp's of all tanks, less survibability.defensive stance is totaly useless, agro in defensive stance is terrible, no ways to decrease incoming damage ,less aviodance, need Spell and Ca but no proper itemization, etc, etc,, etc,,,      with all of these issue's you would think Sk's would atleast have the Best agro in the game, or the Most survivabilty, or the Most Dps of the tank class, but Sk's dont have the Best of Any of them ,  and this is the reason Sk's arent needed or wanted in raids they bring Nothing any other tank can't do ALOT easier </p><p>i have raided with my sk since level 45 befor dof came out, and thru dof, and kos, and eof, and progressing thru rok currently. i like many other sk's have pretty much given up posting in the Sk forums, becuase Sk's have seen more nerfs to our class then we have seen the couple bones they have tossed us. </p><p>its not hard to see where the Sk is lacking , and small tweaks to our survivabilty,agro,dps to make us equal to other tanks would give us equal reasons to be MT or OT , but to be honest i don't care one way or the other anymore i have Ot'd and Mt'd raids in eq2 for years regardless of how bad soe has borked the sk class, and im tired of the wasting my time talking to thin air. </p><p>a skilled player will make use of a underpowered class and make it usefull, so Soe see's that a handfull of Sk's are Raiding and so the class must be ok /Major hint Dev's Sk's need Some Evil LOVE! </p><p>the 2 things shadowknights actualy were happy about were Deathmarch(and now in rok it suck's) and Reaver and they Nerfed Reaver. and atm it seems they might have Ninja nerfed our Mit syphon(you just have to laugh at someone nerfing a class that on multiple forums on mutliple message boards there are multiple posts that the class in rok is underpowered) </p><p>you have to like self torture if your going to play an sk , if you dont you wont survive! </p><p>  you saw an influx of Sk's when deathmarch and Reaver made Sk's the best Group tank in the game and a very good solo class about 8th over all, its no longer the case IN ROK(yes kos and eof sk's still are good but thats SO last year)  sk's in rok are about 15 place for soloers(actualy solo better on my inquisitor in rok)  they are 3rd or 4th in group tank (depends how bad the zerk is your grouped with : ) , they certainly arent Main tank in raids and for OT paladins are simply the easiest to use, and zerks,guards can do it and have more survivabilty. </p><p>Soe made Guardians into the Primary tanks in ROK< so instead of having 4 plate tanks to fight over MT position and 4 plate tanks fighting for OT postion , you have Guard is MT and everyone else is left to fight over just the OT postion = Bad design in a game where all tanks are suppose to tank Equaly but by differant methods(and this [Removed for Content] off alot of people not just SK's /Thumbs up Dev's way to Majorly [Removed for Content] off your long time players /course Guardians are happy and thats all that matters /snicker,, im sure i smell one coming to Post in here shortly : ) </p><p>what the Dev's should do is Over power Sk's with Survivability,Agro, and DPS then we would be Equal to a Guardian : ) and Norath would see the sky fill with the tears of guardians everywhere(and thousands of Whinny posts)  /evil laughter ,,, but the funny thing is that even if they did only a Handfull of Sk's would still ever see the MT position in Raids (dont beleive me ? give it a try Devs i Double dog dare you : P ) </p>

[Seolta]

<p>Don't hold your breath.</p>

[Jurmoon]

Is it a moot point?  How many Shadowknight mains are left by now anyway?

[Beldin_]

<cite>Giralus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>  you saw an influx of Sk's when deathmarch and Reaver made Sk's the best Group tank in the game and a very good solo class about 8th over all, its no longer the case IN ROK(yes kos and eof sk's still are good but thats SO last year)  sk's in rok are about 15 place for soloers(actualy solo better on my inquisitor in rok)  they are 3rd or 4th in group tank (depends how bad the zerk is your grouped with : ) </p></blockquote><p>I never cared much about raiding, but that is what makes me sad. But the problem here i not so much the class itself but the content in RoK.</p><p>SKs simply are Kings of AoE. But where is the sense in spells like Tap Veins, Pestilence and even Deathmarch if all we have to fight now are single triple-ups all the way.</p><p>I think maybe for bruisers and monks that would be a good thing, because they always sucked at group-aggro but were superior against single-targets (who has never lost aggro to bruisers on the main target) but for SK this content simply sucks <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>But my tip for all .. the next time if persons complain in the forums that the content is all to easy and mobs die to fast .. blabla .. say thanks to them for the content we have now. These people are the reason why there are no more AoE-encounters of no-arrow or single-up mobs, because they are to easy .. no challenge .. blabla.</p><p>However with the content in RoK SK is simply a total useless class because 40% of our best style are no near useless. Before RoK for example tap veins was often 10-12% of my zonewide damage .. last times in CoA it was 1-2%.</p>

[Nakash]

<cite>Nole wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The raid game seems like it's such a small part of the game, if that's the only place SKs have a problem, then maybe we don't really have a big problem. </p><p>If most SKs are alts as you say, than most SKs probably haven't run into problems yet.</p></blockquote> The raid game is all what is left after you are done with group content in RoK. And after you have been more or less been forced to do the group content for leveling up. There is not really an alternative. And yes i think many SK havent either come to the point where the mess starts. But running forward with the fact in mind the abyss is far away for you equal of saying so its not my problem, is not really what you are about to tell us people who have the problem or ?

[DMIstar]

<cite>Nole wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The raid game seems like it's such a small part of the game, if that's the only place SKs have a problem, then maybe we don't really have a big problem. I've certainly not run into one levelling up. Heck there's even levels where I can solo level appropriate group dungeons (talk about not having a problem in group content, lol).</p><p>If most SKs are alts as you say, than most SKs probably haven't run into problems yet.</p></blockquote>A Raiding SK has gear to trivilize Group content. Hence The SK will never have trouble With this content for he is already above it. Hence you can't determine the balance of a class by content in which he can beat with higher gear ... Now if you sit there and level out the playing field with gear and classes, with group content that is in line, then you would start seeing the same mess Raiders are seeing. Though In smaller scale, cause realize its faster to kill a group mob then it is a raid mob, due to the HP's are completly different. Hence theres more chance of the SK looseing aggro in a raid then in a group.

[Skar]

<p>Personally being low lvl, I hate not having a few creature comforts that other classes have.</p><p> 1) No Gather Shadow or invis spell...spending 60s everytime i need to invis is  stupid.</p><p>2) No perma pet, our pet sucks, sometimes dont even last through a encounter. They are already weak enough cant they be perma?</p><p>3) Too much mana consumption, our spells cost a TON, I go through mana like Hugh Hefner goes through blondes. This needs looked at.</p>

[Mathafern]

I suspect Devs get more out of short, well written posts than long rants in psuedo english. I doubt that they really care too much what we have to say, though.  What fighter doesn't want more DPS, defense, and aggro? There's a balance problem with SK just because of the split between combat arts and spell damage.  If they unsplit that I think we'd be fixed on the spot.  Since they won't, we need more SK usable gear, instead of all of this Paladin-tuned garbage. The Devs won't do a thing about it until one of them ramps an SK up to 80 and plays him a while. Good luck with that.

[Nole]

<cite>Azzaroth@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nole wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The raid game seems like it's such a small part of the game, if that's the only place SKs have a problem, then maybe we don't really have a big problem. </p><p>If most SKs are alts as you say, than most SKs probably haven't run into problems yet.</p></blockquote>The raid game is all what is left after you are done with group content in RoK.And after you have been more or less been forced to do the group content for leveling up. There is not really an alternative.And yes i think many SK havent either come to the point where the mess starts.But running forward with the fact in mind the abyss is far away for you equal of saying so its not my problem, is not really what you are about to tell us people who have the problem or ?</blockquote><p>I came back around EoF release, messed around a bit, then made my SK. I turned off exp at level 1, and I've just made 63 last week. It will be awhile before I even touch RoK stuff. I made a conscious decision to avoid getting to the raid end game, and there's more than enough low level content to keep me going here (unlike certain other games which will remain nameless.) Expansions come out pretty frequently in this game, and there will be new content then. I really don't ever anticipate getting to the point where the raids are all that's left. If you rushed towards the abyss at full speed, well, that's not my problem. </p><p>And yes, I get pretty sick of reading these boards and seeing people act like the high level game is all that exists. Take that thread where some guy asked what he should use for his ranged slot at 43, and got multiple answers saying he should use T8 items. I see all this doom and gloom on the boards, and in game I see myself being able to take out two heroic triple ups two levels under me at the same time if I use all my abilities. I mean, if we got buffs, and those buffs applied at all tiers, not just top end, how ridiculously overpowered would the class be in the mid-game? (Well, unless those were aggro buffs... that wouldn't really help much solo.)</p>

[Margen]

<p>Problem with your post is that many of us want to get end game with our SKs.  If you want to stay out of the end game or raiding more power to you, your play style and your dollars.  </p><p>But many of us want our SKs wanted in the toughest fights, where we make a difference in our guilds winning or losing.  But we are not there, and alot of us are ticked off by it.  Many SK's have either betrayed, stopped playing, or just play there SK for fun with a "alt" for raiding.  That shows a problem.</p>

[Mallfoy]

<p>First off, I hope one day we do get several positive changes to our class; however I'm not expecting it nor do I think it will be easy for the SK problems to be realized and this is why.</p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><u>Alt Perspective</u>:</span></p><p>Most likely this is where a Dev will fit in when checking out our class and from this perspective we're ok. Most people in the lower levels tend to agree the SK class rocks and is quite enjoyable to play. We solo well, we group well and so in the minds of many who hear us complain, they tend to think..... what's the problem because I don't see it.</p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><u>End Game, Raiding & RoK</u>:</span></p><p>There's been numerous issue prior to RoK, but this expansion really made the flaws highly noticible. Once again you can solo the tons of quests with no problem. Also in grouping + instances we don't have many issues - yes hate can be tricky and epic helps but this isn't where you're going to see the big issues. </p><p>To truly realize our issues you need to be lucky enough to be in a T8 raiding guild that's considers themselves slightly more than "Casual".  I do stress the term lucky enough simply because a lot of guilds who think of themselves more than "Casual" tend to scratch a SK from their roster and go with either more DPS or more support. Also these types of guilds use ACT to study strengths and weaknesses and when they see the SK lacking or not performing up to par this is just further reasoning that SKs take the back seat if even given a seat. </p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><u>Final Thoughts</u></span>:</p><p>1. Should a Dev ever decide to check out our class, they'll need to be committed to the end and by the end I mean have killed pretty much everything in the RoK T4 catagory in order to get a true feel for the SK. </p><p>2. Unfortunately it's been said before and I agree in that a Dev won't be investing the amount of time it takes to level up a SK and then get some high end T8 raiding under his belt in order to get a feel for the flaws of this class. </p><p>3. Being able to identify there's a problem with the SK class is simple. Check out most of the hardcore guilds on all the servers and you'll see very few SKs (if any) on their roster. If you'd like to take it a step further, see if they have a pally and ask that pally if he betrayed from SK simply because they wanted to be eligible to play the high end game on their character - I know a few will say yes.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Jurmoon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Is it a moot point?  How many Shadowknight mains are left by now anyway?</blockquote>Not mine. My inqy feels like my sk in basic gameplay, only I can do so much more than my sk. Its sad, since I really liked the sk.

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<cite>Blackoath@Kithicor wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>many of us want our SKs wanted in the toughest fights, where we make a difference in our guilds winning or losing. </p></blockquote><p>This is what every class wants imo. Quite a few classes are satisfied with where they stand with that as a marker. Thankfully, I still have that with my guild and my raid groups, but unfortunately, the vast majority of SKs do not. Seeing as that is the case, something should be done to make them really stand out in more encounters (currently in game). Some future encounters could easily be tailored to focus on our strenghts as well, but that doesn't change anything right now.</p><p>I think threads like this DO help get Dev attention, as do /petitions and face to faces (such as at fan Fair). From what I've seen over time, most of the most common concerns were addressed in some form or another in game changes and fixes. Some worked, soem didn't...but it seems quite obvious that the Devs (or someone dealing with them directly) does indeed read the SK forums (and the forums in general).</p>