Casting Order

[Raahl]

<p>Hello everyone,</p><p>I've started to think about what order I need to cast my CA's and Spells in when solo'ing and grouped.  I couldn't really find much on this subject through search so I thought I'd start something up.  Having mostly solo'd to 58 I've had more experience with my solo casting order.  Please let me know what you think and offer suggestions and comments, especially for the Group/Raid casting orders.</p><p>Being at work I cannot give the exact names, so I will be a bit vague, sorry.</p><p>Solo Order - Debuffs, Cheap Shot/Back Attacks, PotM, JC (when I get it), Repeating HO's throwing in a Cheap Shot/Back Attacks and PotM when they come up.</p><p>Normal/Raid Groups - Debuffs, PotM, Cheap Shot/Back Attacks, Repeating HO's throwing in a Cheap Shot/Back Attacks and PotM when they come up.</p><p>Any comments on using JC and PotM?  These are our two main buffs for raids and I'd like to make sure I get the most out of them.  </p><p>JC raid casting order - MT on the pull then Brigand next then Wizard/Warlock/Necro.   I've seen postings talking about casting JC on yourself to speed up the PotM casting, any comments on this?  In a non-raid group probably skip the MT.</p>

[Banditman]

Soloing:AE Shrill for pull, Stifling Missile while incoming, Steal Essence, Snare (w/HO Starter macro'ed), Incursion/Rhythm Blade macro, Noble Blade, Cheap Shot, Bump / Night Strike macro, Flanking debuff, Shrill, Steal Essence.  Next mob plz.Group:AE Shrill, Stifling Missile while incoming.  Snare (w/HO Starter macro'ed), Flanking debuff, Incursion/Rhythm Blade macro, Noble Blade, Bump/Night Strike macro, Shrill, Steal Essence.  Next mob plz.

[Jehannum]

<p>Solo... Usually I forget about JC.  My bad.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>PotM, bowshot, Shrill, debuffs (while moving), stun and a few seconds of melee; drop dots and mez if it's ^ or bigger and I need, or finish it off.  Without PotM, it just takes a little longer.</p><p>Grouping... Depends on how good the group's dps is (usually very) and on what we're killing.</p><p>Tougher stuff/lower dps: PotM, JC, debuffs (often inc Night/Bright despite lack of procs), stun, shrill, AE knock, AE damage, then when they're all refreshing, start in on the other CAs.</p><p>Standard heroic mobs:</p><p>PotM if it's up, Chaos, Rebuff, Snare, nuke and knockdown and it's usually already dead.  Bump/night/bright if PotM isn't up, sometimes even if it is.</p><p>Really tough stuff (raids):</p><p>debuffs and spam appropriate abilities (depending on ranged requirements), Jester on necros as they announce burns and PotM when the mob's at 30% or so (usually, though this is encounter-dependent)</p><p>Key things to remember:</p><p>When Rebuff is up, <b>all</b> our spells (and those of every other caster in the party, and the procs we provide them, etc etc) do more damage.</p><p>When Anthem is up, <b>all</b> our spells do more damage and have a greater chance to land.  Same for every other caster attacking the same encounter group.</p><p>When Sinister Strike is up, all our melee does more damage, as does everyone else's.</p><p>When Lore's is up, all our melee has a greater chance of landing.  Ditto for the rest of the melee attackers.</p><p>The sooner you can get the best damage-enhancing debuffs on the mob, the more damage the rest of your spells will do.</p>

[Banditman]

While I agree that debuffs are important, I think that really only applies in situations where the mob has a life expectancy greater than 30 seconds.  For most Solo and Heroic content, I just don't think debuffs add enough.No, let me rephrase that.I *know* debuffs don't add enough.  Yes, against mobs in deep Chardok / Sebilis, it's worthwhile.  Tough orange names?  Sure.  In raids?  Absolutely.  In most situations, Heroic and Group though, you're far better off just opening up that can of whup@(* right at pull and knocking the mob down.And yea, in Solo and Heroic content, I don't typically use JC / PotM.  Sure, I'll use it for a tough solo named, the rare group of Heroics.

[Raahl]

<p>Interesting thought's on the debuffs.  And there are a few CA's/Spells that don't look familiar to me, so I may be missing some.  I'll double check tonight.</p><p>Keep the thoughts coming.</p>

[Jehannum]

<p>@bandit - absolutely agreed - most mobs up to about the bridge in Chardok, the extreme south of upper Seb or its lower floor, don't require any more than a few smacks to down (also include most non-named instance mobs).  Even there I like to lead with Chaos to soften things up, since it's additive dps + dot dps, and hit it with my Bump'n'Grind macro if it's positioned quick enough, but bump/night add a lot of dps in addition to the debuff too.</p>

[Spelchek]

Great advice so far.  I'm still getting adjusted myself to having enough aa's and the spell line up that people need, so all this advice is great.whats working for me so far in groups is JC the mage  or healer on incoming with PotM just before.  If mobs are being a bit tough for the group I thow in a debuf, only taking time to cast one or two debuffs so depends on what your group is having most problem with.  Other than that I'm trying to get as many bump/night attacks and flanking attacks as possible.  Usually dont have time to use JC more than once a fight so nobody really notices if you skip it altogether.  I do find myself in the cc business in areas with wanderers and finding that charm helps out more than mez so i keep that aa maxed to help out.  Raids I'm stuck with the casters and loving it.  I JC MT on incoming and sometimes one of the main healers next (not sure if this does much though... just do it outta  blind faith that it helps).  After Incoming its racing to get as many debuffs on as possible while using ranged until I find myself close enough to strike then I just keep refreshing debuffs and PotM.  I'm still stuck in eq1 raid mindframe of holding off max dps till MT has enough hate to hold it so i generally apply JC with that mind frame in the beginning and waiting till mob is past 50% and still fully debuffed before hitting the person doing the most dps in the raid, before that though I'm hitting my mage groupmates.  Not sure if it's because i'm not maxed aa or not fully raid geared, but my dps does not warrent hitting myself with JC in raids or groups, would rather bump up the guy doing the most dps than to give me a couple more hits. 

[Jehannum]

<cite>Spelchek wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not sure if it's because i'm not maxed aa or not fully raid geared, but my dps does not warrent hitting myself with JC in raids or groups, would rather bump up the guy doing the most dps than to give me a couple more hits.  </blockquote><p>Relative to most classes, most of the time, it's not worth Jester's Capping yourself.  There are a some notable exceptions:</p><p>1. To speed the rate at which you're supplying PotM.  Remember that this is enormous additive dps, potentially; the more frequently it can be provided, the better.  Be careful of your immunity timer.</p><p>2. To permit somewhat more frequent Bladedance, or provide 50 seconds of personal immunity to AE.</p><p>3. When you need to do 45 minutes of harvesting and then recall again, burn a JC/recall to reduce the timer, or do the same with Evac in a similar situation dealing with 10 minutes or less.</p><p>More commonly, it's most useful to reduce the refresh timers on Life- and Mana-burns, as well as affecting any other spells the target casts in the meantime.  I've seen it have an effect on healers but unless your raid is low on healing power it's pretty marginal, and had better not be the strategy's lynchpin.</p>

[RanmaBoyType]

<p>i agree on jcap on yourself.  i use it on myself every other POTM, as that is when immunity is off.   This helps assure i can pop off POTM as often as possible, which is much much more dps raidwide, (especially once i get my mythical completed)</p><p>even when i am soloing, ill jcap myself after a POTM, for exactly the same reason.  getting POTM back faster = deder mobbers quicker.</p>

[Pogopuschel]

<cite>Jehannum wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> or provide 50 seconds of personal immunity to AE.</p></blockquote>Uhm? Maybe it's too late atm but I don't quite understand what you mean by that, please explain.

[Jehannum]

<p>Jester's cap, turnstrike, (10 second pause), Bladedance, (30 second pause), turnstrike.</p><p> With a little luck and a few minor gaps in coverage, that amounts to potentially 50 seconds (out of almost a full minute, granted) of immunity to AE for the bladedancer, plus 30 seconds in the middle where the rest of the group is likewise protected.  For those level 80, firing off a countersong to (hope to) mitigate the AE is also an option, but complete AE immunity tends to be more reliable in my experience.</p>

[RanmaBoyType]

<p>that would be once every 7 minutes then.  and for 50 seconds, even if turnstrike lands each time, that is 50 seconds out of a t8 raid mob.  this means you will probably block 1, at the most 2 aoe's in that time, and what are you gonna do for the other 3 minutes of the fight. (unless your raid force is putting out over 200k raidwide dps on t8 named)</p><p>just not worth it IMO to go all the way to bladedance.  timing turnstrike for the aoe's is a much better choice IMO, and better use of the aa's.  Furies get a better AoE block anyway, and 90% of the time a troub is grouped with a fury on raids.</p>

[Jehannum]

<p>I've found that when the fury's dead it comes in pretty handy but I'm not going to make any effort to defend Bladedance as a truly useful raiding ability; it's just a specific scenario which is one of a vanishingly small number of situations in which casting JC on oneself is actually (marginally) worthwhile.</p><p>I certainly didn't mean to imply that there were any T8 targets against which it'd be particularly useful, especially in a general sense.  Bladedance is typically a spell I reserve for specific situations; most of them are when the fertiliser has already hit the ventilator.  Such as when the fury drops against a mob with harsh AE; it's nice to be able to call for a dirge res, and immunise the druid from AE for 30 seconds while they get their feet back under them.</p><p>Definitely a very specialised utility, but it does have its moments in which to shine.  And as I've mentioned before, it reduces the Chelsith tentacle encounters to annoyances; they're not even really what I'd consider 'named' encounters with Bladedance available.  And in Chelsith, with a quick group it's better to have a 7-minute timer than 10.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Bewts]

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Soloing:AE Shrill for pull, Stifling Missile while incoming, Steal Essence, Snare (w/HO Starter macro'ed), Incursion/Rhythm Blade macro, Noble Blade, Cheap Shot, Bump / Night Strike macro, Flanking debuff, Shrill, Steal Essence.  Next mob plz.Group:AE Shrill, Stifling Missile while incoming.  Snare (w/HO Starter macro'ed), Flanking debuff, Incursion/Rhythm Blade macro, Noble Blade, Bump/Night Strike macro, Shrill, Steal Essence.  Next mob plz.</blockquote><p>I'm only 73... but I get owned going toe to toe even in MC gear and a combination of AD1/AD3 spells.  I typically run with incombat health regen, defense, aria's, haste and Raxxyls for conc buffs with allego, dont kill the messanger, and fortissimo from my AA's.  Obviously I run with self int buff and runbuff as well.  Max AA's in Bard tree with notables in Troub Tree of 5 into Aria's, Shrill, AE Shrill, Eli's Thunderous Drumming and soon to be cheap shot.  I don't sword and board... DW MC 4.0 delay imbued and Axe of the Blood Beast.  Approx 400 extra spell damage, 10% crit melee, spell and DA with 41% haste.</p><p>I start with spell rebuff, HO starter, Kian's (Dot), Snare/AE Shrill to complete HO (still kiting atm).  HO/Evade/Shrill.  Charge mob, Cheap Shot, Run past mob dancing blade as I go by followed by Bump/Night strike once behind.  Finish mob off with Eli's Thunderous Drumming, Steal Essence, HO/Snare/Shrill.</p><p>Thats about the only way I can solo most of the yellows in Fens atm and even then a couple resists and I'm fighting for my life.</p><p>I use PotM whenever its up and typically ignore JC because the fights are short enough I'm not really going to need to have faster recasts to get more spells off because they will be up by the time I engage the next encounter anyways.</p><p>Duo... HIGHLY recommend Duo... its a lot easier I just nuke while the necro pet does the work.</p>

[Banditman]

<cite>Bewts wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I'm only 73... but I get owned going toe to toe even in MC gear and a combination of AD1/AD3 spells.  I typically run with incombat health regen, defense, aria's, haste and Raxxyls for conc buffs with allego, dont kill the messanger, and fortissimo from my AA's.  Obviously I run with self int buff and runbuff as well.  Max AA's in Bard tree with notables in Troub Tree of 5 into Aria's, Shrill, AE Shrill, Eli's Thunderous Drumming and soon to be cheap shot.  I don't sword and board... DW MC 4.0 delay imbued and Axe of the Blood Beast.  Approx 400 extra spell damage, 10% crit melee, spell and DA with 41% haste.<p>I start with spell rebuff, HO starter, Kian's (Dot), Snare/AE Shrill to complete HO (still kiting atm).  HO/Evade/Shrill.  Charge mob, Cheap Shot, Run past mob dancing blade as I go by followed by Bump/Night strike once behind.  Finish mob off with Eli's Thunderous Drumming, Steal Essence, HO/Snare/Shrill.</p><p>Thats about the only way I can solo most of the yellows in Fens atm and even then a couple resists and I'm fighting for my life.</p><p>I use PotM whenever its up and typically ignore JC because the fights are short enough I'm not really going to need to have faster recasts to get more spells off because they will be up by the time I engage the next encounter anyways.</p><p>Duo... HIGHLY recommend Duo... its a lot easier I just nuke while the necro pet does the work.</p></blockquote>It's pretty easy to see why you're getting owned in MC armor.  You aren't going all out from the start.Spell Rebuff and Kian's?  On solo mobs?  Come on.  Eli's?  Even fully upgraded Eli's is far too slow to cast unless it's the ONLY thing you have up.My gear is *all* MC . . . well, it was at that point.  I may have a few other pieces now.  Two 4.0 delay Incarnadine weapons and a full set of Melodic.  Mahogany MC bow.Don't write off how important the Stifle on Stifling Missile is.  Don't write off the added stun time from Cheap Shot upgrade.  Done properly, most mobs only get to fire off one special attack per fight, sometimes they don't even get that.