Any one else frustrated? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Skwor

04-10-2008, 09:10 AM

To sum up:1. Casting resists increased2. Epic adjusting down3. Arrows adjusted (giving imo to large a DPS)4. Hit rates increased for melee5. Mit added to low tier fabled (this is useless to cloth so yet another love gift to melee, who are the ones that benefit significantly from mit)All in two LU's, can you (SOE) please throw cloth a bone instead of kicking us their. This much "negative adjustment" seriously affects the enjoyment I (and probably many more) can derive from this game. Don't you (SOE) think this has been a bit much and bit too often??A few tips:1. Fix the wizard mez, I have no doubt your internal parsing shows it is not used. Try making it a single target recastable mez, at least give the wizard a little control ability since you appear committed to removing us from being a DPS class I hardly think a wizard being able to mez 1 mob on a short timer having to continually recast would unbalance us.2. Make our targetable mana transfer actually worth something, even at Master level I spam it and am constantly told "Wizards feed mana" our feed is lame. Cast the master and you need a micrometer to see your targets power bar move up. That is how incredibly small an increase of mana we currently do proportional to level 80 mana pools. To make it worse it is on a 17.5 second recast; wow three pixels worth of added mana in a typical raid fight.3. How about a group invis or allow our single target invis to use multiple slots, why can we only invis 1 person at a time. I mean why can't it at least take up slots and allow a wizard to manage several invis's limited by slots? How could this possibly over power the game? If we actually are to have some utility doesn't this just make sense?4. Allow Blade of Ro to be raid targetable so we can actually proc buff (again slot dependant) effectively in the raid. This is way underused as you don't typically put a wizard in a melee group. This would add a real raid utility5. Allow some of our stuns to actually affect epics. Not as effectively as the two mage control lines but at least a little. What is wrong with a wizard being able to at least interrupt an epic briefly or allowing a smaller stun on an epic? You already tie player manaburns together so if we used it then all others would be locked out, this would prevent spamming stuns on epics and I think you already do that for the control classes anyway, again not overpowering but actually gives a wizard some other function on a raid other than DPS.6. Add a slow attack speed to our line or one of our dots, make it less than the control classes and allow it to be overwritten by theirs when they are on a raid. This would give us some utility but again not something that would be over powering.7 Oh, and why do druids get more ports? Their ports are already more effective to use. Shouldn't we at least have the same and if need be just at different places? I mean seriously what is up with giving druids 1 more port over sorcerers each time new ports come out??So please stop with the nerf bat already and give cloth a break.

simpwrx02

04-10-2008, 10:32 AM

<cite>Skwor wrote:</cite><blockquote>To sum up:1. Casting resists increased2. Epic adjusting down3. Arrows adjusted (giving imo to large a DPS)4. Hit rates increased for melee5. Mit added to low tier fabled (this is useless to cloth so yet another love gift to melee, who are the ones that benefit significantly from mit)All in two LU's, can you (SOE) please throw cloth a bone instead of kicking us their. This much "negative adjustment" seriously affects the enjoyment I (and probably many more) can derive from this game. Don't you (SOE) think this has been a bit much and bit too often??A few tips:1. Fix the wizard mez, I have no doubt your internal parsing shows it is not used. Try making it a single target recastable mez, at least give the wizard a little control ability since you appear committed to removing us from being a DPS class I hardly think a wizard being able to mez 1 mob on a short timer having to continually recast would unbalance us.A mez that we could keep on a mob woudl only allow us to more effctively solo ^^^ fights, unless they put a large power cost with the mez, which I would have no issue with make it like 300 power to cast and every 6 seconds with duration at 24 seconds.2. Make our targetable mana transfer actually worth something, even at Master level I spam it and am constantly told "Wizards feed mana" our feed is lame. Cast the master and you need a micrometer to see your targets power bar move up. That is how incredibly small an increase of mana we currently do proportional to level 80 mana pools. To make it worse it is on a 17.5 second recast; wow three pixels worth of added mana in a typical raid fight.Our mana transfer sucks many on how long it takes to cast teh power given really isnt that bad 300 power for t8, but a 4 second cast time blows, but we can do it ~3times per minute for just under 1k power per minute. the main power transfer clas is the chanter and they increase power by 10% which with the power pools is about 1k on healer, the chanter has a 30 second time between casting and power gained. Make this spell have a 1-2 second cast time woudl be great.3. How about a group invis or allow our single target invis to use multiple slots, why can we only invis 1 person at a time. I mean why can't it at least take up slots and allow a wizard to manage several invis's limited by slots? How could this possibly over power the game? If we actually are to have some utility doesn't this just make sense? We really dotn need a group invs or be able to cast it on more than 1 person unless you are tryign to do a dungeon sneak attack and then just have your group members use totems or bring a fury/rogue/illy.4. Allow Blade of Ro to be raid targetable so we can actually proc buff (again slot dependant) effectively in the raid. This is way underused as you don't typically put a wizard in a melee group. This would add a real raid utilityI agree thsi would be much better than me putting it on myself and well that is it because the warlock in group gets the troub.5. Allow some of our stuns to actually affect epics. Not as effectively as the two mage control lines but at least a little. What is wrong with a wizard being able to at least interrupt an epic briefly or allowing a smaller stun on an epic? You already tie player manaburns together so if we used it then all others would be locked out, this would prevent spamming stuns on epics and I think you already do that for the control classes anyway, again not overpowering but actually gives a wizard some other function on a raid other than DPS.This i can not agree with as any CC effect trigger an immunity and with how SoE calculates the duration the stun woudl last for ~.5 seconds and triiger about a 6 sec immunity which coudl mess up a chanter. Also as it sits now a single chanter can keep the max amount of control effects on an epic, adding in other classes that can use them will just mess up the small CC ability that the cahnters have in raids.6. Add a slow attack speed to our line or one of our dots, make it less than the control classes and allow it to be overwritten by theirs when they are on a raid. This would give us some utility but again not something that would be over powering.While I would be fine with this why have it get overwritten by other classes just add a small 5haste 5dps redcution to Ro's coil.7 Oh, and why do druids get more ports? Their ports are already more effective to use. Shouldn't we at least have the same and if need be just at different places? I mean seriously what is up with giving druids 1 more port over sorcerers each time new ports come out??This isnt going to change so I woudlnt even argue the point we get a port to each of the major lands /shrug so we dont have to wait on the boats.So please stop with the nerf bat already and give cloth a break.</blockquote>I agree with part fo your post and disagree with a few other points, but the biggest F-U was lets nerf caster hit rates oh wait now lets buff melee hit rates but leave caster hit rates nerfed. My debuff still gets resisted a ton on epics make the debuff protion unresistable like most CA debuffs are. At least this would allow me to have more than a 1 in 3 chance of a nuke landing on the mob until I get my debuff to finally land.

Skwor

04-10-2008, 11:31 AM

<cite>simpwrx02 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skwor wrote:</cite><blockquote>To sum up:1. Casting resists increased2. Epic adjusting down3. Arrows adjusted (giving imo to large a DPS)4. Hit rates increased for melee5. Mit added to low tier fabled (this is useless to cloth so yet another love gift to melee, who are the ones that benefit significantly from mit)All in two LU's, can you (SOE) please throw cloth a bone instead of kicking us their. This much "negative adjustment" seriously affects the enjoyment I (and probably many more) can derive from this game. Don't you (SOE) think this has been a bit much and bit too often??A few tips:1. Fix the wizard mez, I have no doubt your internal parsing shows it is not used. Try making it a single target recastable mez, at least give the wizard a little control ability since you appear committed to removing us from being a DPS class I hardly think a wizard being able to mez 1 mob on a short timer having to continually recast would unbalance us.A mez that we could keep on a mob woudl only allow us to more effctively solo ^^^ fights, unless they put a large power cost with the mez, which I would have no issue with make it like 300 power to cast and every 6 seconds with duration at 24 seconds.It would be more than solo, it would allow us to have a small amount of cc in group. Roots for cc are silly in most group instances. the mob still beats down toons unless everyone can back away. While possible, it is also possible to win the lottery but how often does that happen? Would you count on winning the lottery? The idea behind this is to give some small utlility to sorcerers to provide limited useful crowd control when grouping.2. Make our targetable mana transfer actually worth something, even at Master level I spam it and am constantly told "Wizards feed mana" our feed is lame. Cast the master and you need a micrometer to see your targets power bar move up. That is how incredibly small an increase of mana we currently do proportional to level 80 mana pools. To make it worse it is on a 17.5 second recast; wow three pixels worth of added mana in a typical raid fight.Our mana transfer sucks many on how long it takes to cast teh power given really isnt that bad 300 power for t8, but a 4 second cast time blows, but we can do it ~3times per minute for just under 1k power per minute. the main power transfer clas is the chanter and they increase power by 10% which with the power pools is about 1k on healer, the chanter has a 30 second time between casting and power gained. Make this spell have a 1-2 second cast time woudl be great.This paragraph confuses me. I think you are agreeing with me that a sorcerers power feed needs improved3. How about a group invis or allow our single target invis to use multiple slots, why can we only invis 1 person at a time. I mean why can't it at least take up slots and allow a wizard to manage several invis's limited by slots? How could this possibly over power the game? If we actually are to have some utility doesn't this just make sense? We really dotn need a group invs or be able to cast it on more than 1 person unless you are tryign to do a dungeon sneak attack and then just have your group members use totems or bring a fury/rogue/illy.I agree we really don't need it. I just don't see any reason why it is so restrictive especially given how many items you can use to become invisable. This really goes to why anyone saying "you can invis" as a reason for wizard utility is being intellectually lazy4. Allow Blade of Ro to be raid targetable so we can actually proc buff (again slot dependant) effectively in the raid. This is way underused as you don't typically put a wizard in a melee group. This would add a real raid utilityI agree thsi would be much better than me putting it on myself and well that is it because the warlock in group gets the troub.No argument there. This really should be raid targetable.5. Allow some of our stuns to actually affect epics. Not as effectively as the two mage control lines but at least a little. What is wrong with a wizard being able to at least interrupt an epic briefly or allowing a smaller stun on an epic? You already tie player manaburns together so if we used it then all others would be locked out, this would prevent spamming stuns on epics and I think you already do that for the control classes anyway, again not overpowering but actually gives a wizard some other function on a raid other than DPS.This i can not agree with as any CC effect trigger an immunity and with how SoE calculates the duration the stun woudl last for ~.5 seconds and triiger about a 6 sec immunity which coudl mess up a chanter. Also as it sits now a single chanter can keep the max amount of control effects on an epic, adding in other classes that can use them will just mess up the small CC ability that the cahnters have in raids.It wouldn't mess it up. if a chanter is in raid and real interupts ar eneeded a sorcerer shouldn't be using it period. This just provides an alternative way to get some interupts on an epic if you don't have a cc cloth. i.e. actually adds utility to a wizard since it appears we arn't meant to be main DPS 6. Add a slow attack speed to our line or one of our dots, make it less than the control classes and allow it to be overwritten by theirs when they are on a raid. This would give us some utility but again not something that would be over powering.While I would be fine with this why have it get overwritten by other classes just add a small 5haste 5dps redcution to Ro's coil.I am open to many options on this. The general idea is provide something along this line.7 Oh, and why do druids get more ports? Their ports are already more effective to use. Shouldn't we at least have the same and if need be just at different places? I mean seriously what is up with giving druids 1 more port over sorcerers each time new ports come out??This isnt going to change so I woudlnt even argue the point we get a port to each of the major lands /shrug so we dont have to wait on the boats.It is a pet peeve. I just don't see the sense, it screams lazyness on the part of dev's. How can this possibly be a balance issue? What actual purpose is there for having this desparity? How does this even relate to eq history ( it doesn't because wizards actually had more ports in eq1) This appears to show a poor respect of eq history from the dev's and is just a slap in the face for sorcerers. Would it really have broken the game to give a skyfire port to sorcerers? It was in eq1 and for pete's sake everyone can get the overthere hammer and port to jw anyway!!! Lazy, just plain lazy and a poor understanding of the game they manage.So please stop with the nerf bat already and give cloth a break.</blockquote>I agree with part fo your post and disagree with a few other points, but the biggest F-U was lets nerf caster hit rates oh wait now lets buff melee hit rates but leave caster hit rates nerfed. My debuff still gets resisted a ton on epics make the debuff protion unresistable like most CA debuffs are. At least this would allow me to have more than a 1 in 3 chance of a nuke landing on the mob until I get my debuff to finally land.</blockquote>Yes, I also agree the caster nerf needs undone now that they have jacked up melee hits rates. If not then overall damage for everyone should be rescaled to bring hit rates relative to damage done per hit to provide some parity between caster / melee. I still haven't seen any arguement that comes close to making sense as to why any class that can tank should out dps cloth.

simpwrx02

04-10-2008, 01:03 PM

point 1: to clarify I agree that the mez shoudl not mez us, however it should have a large power cost as we are not CC mages and also to ensure we dont use it to solo any mob that can be mezzed.point 2: the power pump, yes it needs to be upgraaded, but the amoutn at t8 is ~3-4% power my major concern is that it taeks 4 seconds to cast which is ~16-20k damage for me to give some one 300 power. It woudl be hard to justify increasing the amount as then you get into instant manaflow territory, so to make it more appealing reduce the cast time.point 5: raid stuns, SoE woudl just put it on magma chamber a spell i use very often in raids, if it triggered a stun immunity right as the cahnter was stunning the mob to prevent a tank from going down, well then you just fubared the raid. CC shoudl be with chanters and chanters alon in raids... concussive dose interupt your target however I dont think epic mobs can be interupted unless with a stun/stifle that lands.

Gisallo

04-11-2008, 01:08 PM

Agree with a lot of what you said with the exception of the arrow mechanic and melee hit rate changes. Looking at the parses it actually looks like the change has caused a decrease in dps. The dev behind this has said as much stating this was doen in order to make the Ranger more CA dependant. Because of this he made the arrows scale correctly so that there is not an immediate nerf to tier 8 bow damage, but the auto attack damage of arrows has been reduced. The only change was that now it actually makes sense to equip a tier 8 bow. Prior to the change tier 7 bows did more damage than the Epic <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.Melee hit rate changes also had to be increased for the benefit of non-guardian tanks. So much of their design was based on using their attacks to maintain aggro, especially in light of the fact they had no snap aggro abilities. With the messed up melee hit rates that basically meant that a Guardian was the ONLY way to go to tank. The Guardian is still the best (even though the theory was the Zerker should be as good, just with a different methodology we can see how thats working) but at least now the other plate tanks have a prayer of being decent MA and OT and not just the Pally and that was thanks to amends working well in spite of screwy mechanics.In the end I think this is what happened. The caster classes are seen as one of the most flexible class lines when you look at them as a group (whether right or wrong). Dps, mezz, cc, buff, debuff. The mechanics are set up in such a way that if you do something to effect say the Conji, its going to have an effect on the Wiz as well a lot of the time. The dev's definitely do seem to be lazy in that they go "how do we address the fact that a conjy or even an illusionist can do more dps than X, when they have more utility, without decreasing spell damage and such since this will be WAY obvious and will make them scream from the gate? I know lets increase resists." They don't think "oops whats that going to do to the other casters?"

simpwrx02

04-11-2008, 03:18 PM

<cite>Valkenberg@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Agree with a lot of what you said with the exception of the arrow mechanic and melee hit rate changes. Looking at the parses it actually looks like the change has caused a decrease in dps. The dev behind this has said as much stating this was doen in order to make the Ranger more CA dependant. Because of this he made the arrows scale correctly so that there is not an immediate nerf to tier 8 bow damage, but the auto attack damage of arrows has been reduced. The only change was that now it actually makes sense to equip a tier 8 bow. Prior to the change tier 7 bows did more damage than the Epic <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.Melee hit rate changes also had to be increased for the benefit of non-guardian tanks. So much of their design was based on using their attacks to maintain aggro, especially in light of the fact they had no snap aggro abilities. With the messed up melee hit rates that basically meant that a Guardian was the ONLY way to go to tank. The Guardian is still the best (even though the theory was the Zerker should be as good, just with a different methodology we can see how thats working) but at least now the other plate tanks have a prayer of being decent MA and OT and not just the Pally and that was thanks to amends working well in spite of screwy mechanics.In the end I think this is what happened. The caster classes are seen as one of the most flexible class lines when you look at them as a group (whether right or wrong). Dps, mezz, cc, buff, debuff. The mechanics are set up in such a way that if you do something to effect say the Conji, its going to have an effect on the Wiz as well a lot of the time. The dev's definitely do seem to be lazy in that they go "how do we address the fact that a conjy or even an illusionist can do more dps than X, when they have more utility, without decreasing spell damage and such since this will be WAY obvious and will make them scream from the gate? I know lets increase resists." They don't think "oops whats that going to do to the other casters?" </blockquote>Thanks for the rangers didnt get a jump in dps compared to casters getting nerfed plug. Many people realized about the arrow/bow mechanics and if any one in the wizard forum really wantd to know we would have went to the ranger forum. When you say melee hit rate changes were for non guardian tanks to keep aggro... are you serious the only tank that uses melee as much as a guardian that will be used as a MT in a zerker, Pally would have no isses with decreased hit rate and Sks do 75% of thier damage via spells, and honestly brawlers are so jacked up in tryign to tank epics well, there are a few hundred threads about that. Oh and guardians are the ONLY raid MT because they are the only ones with a real chance of surving the massing random 9k double attacks as they have the most amount of survivability it isnt because of thier hit rate.Caster are teh most flexable haha are you serious all the classes are flexable, scoutts can tank, tanks can dps, healers can dps, mages can dps... well yeah mages can dps and that is it really the least flexable of the archtypes if you think about roles. Casters get almost no debuffs at all, wizards get a heat/cold debuff thats it. warlocks get a nox debuff and a smae worthless str/int debuff, illys get arcane debuff and a debuff to decrease crush/pierce/slash ofthe mob, havent played summoners or coercer, but summoners get a elemental or nox debuff and a debuff to lower defense, coercers get a arcane debuff and an int debuff, wow that is soem great debuffing from the mages, it may lower the raid mobs dps by .5% woot that 10k hit only did 9,950 I am glad we brought all thsoe debuffing mages with us or we surely would have wiped. CC in groups can be used on trash fights only sa almsot all names are totally immune to CC effects, in raids the CC effects are nerfed in duration so much they are hardly worth using except in a oh S*** situation and then the tank is norally dead by the time the spell finishes casting.Not sure why you posted here, but thank you for playing, and a conjy or illusionist are only going to be doing more damage than another support class, the 4 "tier"1 dps classes if equally geared and played will outparse them, or if the support class has a huge benefit in buffs. The caster nerf was not caused by illys/conjs outparsing pred, it was caused because all the scouts wanted to always be on top because they have it rough because they have no utility, buit can take 4 times as many hits as a caster from an epic mob and have 1/3 the amount of aggro issues.Please troll some where else with your shameless ranger plug, may i suggest the ranger forums.

Skwor

04-12-2008, 11:37 AM

<cite>Valkenberg@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Agree with a lot of what you said with the exception of the arrow mechanic and melee hit rate changes. Looking at the parses it actually looks like the change has caused a decrease in dps. The dev behind this has said as much stating this was doen in order to make the Ranger more CA dependant. Because of this he made the arrows scale correctly so that there is not an immediate nerf to tier 8 bow damage, but the auto attack damage of arrows has been reduced. The only change was that now it actually makes sense to equip a tier 8 bow. Prior to the change tier 7 bows did more damage than the Epic <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.Melee hit rate changes also had to be increased for the benefit of non-guardian tanks. So much of their design was based on using their attacks to maintain aggro, especially in light of the fact they had no snap aggro abilities. With the messed up melee hit rates that basically meant that a Guardian was the ONLY way to go to tank. The Guardian is still the best (even though the theory was the Zerker should be as good, just with a different methodology we can see how thats working) but at least now the other plate tanks have a prayer of being decent MA and OT and not just the Pally and that was thanks to amends working well in spite of screwy mechanics.In the end I think this is what happened. The caster classes are seen as one of the most flexible class lines when you look at them as a group (whether right or wrong). Dps, mezz, cc, buff, debuff. The mechanics are set up in such a way that if you do something to effect say the Conji, its going to have an effect on the Wiz as well a lot of the time. The dev's definitely do seem to be lazy in that they go "how do we address the fact that a conjy or even an illusionist can do more dps than X, when they have more utility, without decreasing spell damage and such since this will be WAY obvious and will make them scream from the gate? I know lets increase resists." They don't think "oops whats that going to do to the other casters?" </blockquote>Oh I get it, I should believe you over my lieing eyes? Unmmm NOT! I parse every raid and I raid 5 nights a week for 4 to 5 hours. Our rangers have seen an 800 to 1000 DPS increase since the last patch. Take your lies elsewhere the facts are embarrassing you atm. When they restrict rangers to cloth and make them one shoT cannons then you might have an issue. Sorcerers have no raid flexibility compared to any other class! They only reason a sorcerer has ever been recruited for raidd guilds was DPS period! suggesting anything else shows how clueless a person is on raid groups in regards to this game.

Mayl

04-13-2008, 06:40 PM

LoL, play an illusionist then.. got everything you whined about