Coercer broke in raids only?

[Renavat]

<p>I have spent alot of time checking out this forum trying to decide if I wanted to try a coercer.  I completely understand that the coercer has major issues with the end game content and the devs are either to stupid or lazy to fix things.  My question though is if a coercer is worth playing from a non-raiding standpoint?  I have a brigand that I raid with on a regular basis but wanted to try to roll an alt.  I wont be raiding with this toon at all and just want to enjoy some nice small groups.  My two picks at this point are a fury or coercer.  I don't want to play an illusionist as I wanted to keep my toon evil.</p><p>So.....what do you guys think?  Coercer good for groups only?  Are they broke for all the end game stuff even if not raiding?</p><p>Thanks so much guys.</p>

[Brook]

Coercer has been hit with the nerfbat probably more than any class, yet through all this they are still a blast to play.Takes lots of patience to learn what you can and cant get away with, very frustrating at times and also very rewarding at others. If you like a challenge then yea this class has it, gives a sense of accomplishment but really does need some dev love.

[Rominian]

Coercers are broken in many ways, spells that are useless, low dps for the most part.  We do ok in groups, but for the most part arent a sought after class simply because crowd control can usually be substituted with roots or the other 3 or 4 classes that have some sort of mez spell (heck, when I group with the templar in my guild, he is always casting his mez even though I am there).  Only place that I have seen coercers shine is in new content/zones.  We are wanted when things are unfamiliar and difficult, but as soon as people have been through zones a few times, we get put off to the side.  That goes for raid zones as well.  As a T8 raiding coercer I am finding myself sitting out of raids now because my utility/dps just doesnt cut it any more.  Oh I still get DKP for being able to raid, but I am only brought in now if I need to get a kill to advance to the next raid tier.  In terms of solo play, yeah we can solo just about anything that we can root, but we arent the most efficient at it by any means.  Basically the same complaints that we have had for the last few years still apply:  Low dps, spells that proc only when tank gets hit, power drains that are useless, many mobs being immune to our abilities specifically (such as mez, stun, stifle).  You can read the forums and easily find more. 

[Aurumn]

<p>Coercers are a challenge, but can be great fun. I started my coercer as an alt and she eventually became my main because she was simply fun and oddly addictive to play (what can I say, I'm a stubborn one). While I hope to at least try raiding (I've never been a raider in any game so I'm curious) I've played her probably 70% solo and 30% grouped. Solo can get sticky, but if you can laugh at a death streak and get a little creative you can pull off some pretty cool things. Your success will be HIGHLY dependant on your ability to keep your spells upgraded and AA setup. </p><p>A coercer (or an enchanter in general) is really appreciated in small or sub-optimal groups where we can help manage the chaos and mitigate the incoming damage. Especially when there's only one healer and pulls get messy. In a well stacked group you'll feel the lack of DPS more as the CC abilities become less important. This is one place where Illy's have it better because they can dish out more damage. Also groups are more likely to let an illy run with a pet whereas they're usually wary of a coercer charming something that might turn on the group at a bad time. </p><p>You won't really know if the class is for you unless you give it a test drive. If you do that I'd suggest you play one until you get sybillant (low 20's I think.. been a while) which is the first reactive. That way you'll get a better picture of the tools available. </p><p>Furies can be quite fun as well especially since you can dps, heal, cast ports, etc. The drawback though is that there are gobs of them everywhere so you might eventually have to deal with competition in getting groups because they don't want to double up on druids. Not a deal breaker, but a consideration. Coercers are pretty low in population so you're not likely to be jockeying for a spot there. </p>

[Alfgand]

<p>Excellent points made by the previous responders. Read them carefully and you will be ahead of the game.</p><p>Coercers are broken and have a number of serious issues that apply mostly to raiding, less to grouping and least to soloing.</p><p>As far as grouping goes most groups do not want a Coercer to have a pet but there are always exceptions. </p><p>Almost all pickup groups do not know how to use a chanter properly and a Coercer even less so. However if you group with a regular group who folks who take the time to understand chanters and how they work you can have a blast and accomplish things and leave other groups wondering how you guys make it look so easy. </p><p>So if you are in a pickup group ask them if they want you to mez adds as needed or not. Don't be a Mezz tyrant and hollar at every person who breaks mez even though it may annoy the heck out you. An AE heavy group may not need to mezz depending on circumstances. Just go with the flow.</p><p>Soloing: Get a master level charm. <u>Sell your soul to get one</u>. A master level charm is much better than the next level higher adept III. Get the very best mezz  and roots you can. Once you hit 20 start getting better gear and spells, dont worry too much before that. Charm will break often and you will die allot.</p><p>But as you get higher and learn the class, which is not the easiest, you will be able to do quests and solo mobs that others need help with and when you can do this don't snicker at them too much. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> Well maybe a little....</p>

[Rijacki]

<cite>Svenghali@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>So if you are in a pickup group ask them if they want you to mez adds as needed or not. Don't be a Mezz tyrant and hollar at every person who breaks mez even though it may annoy the heck out you. An AE heavy group may not need to mezz depending on circumstances. Just go with the flow.</blockquote>When you're in the lower levels (or even higher), tell them you're just working on your quick response timing and skills and not to worry too much about breaking your mezzes.  And then do that.  Mez stuff in groups or that's coming in as an add. Work on getting quick enough to lock something down before anyone even notices you have an add at all. Just like everyone else needs to hone their skills and abilities, so do you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Lleinen]

<p>in response to the title, most our problems are in raid, and we arnt a high desire in groups (unless mez is needed, even then take illus first) due to our lack of utility/dps in this area as well, but we are kings of CC (imo) when it comes to heroic content, so thats why grouping isnt as bad as raiding.</p><p>in raids you cant CC (hardly), so all you have is crappy utility and dps.  Gratz, GL on getting MT spot or nothing at all pretty much.</p>

[XFnarX]

Coercer's I would like to say "are broken" but honestly we are like the [Removed for Content] child of the game. I won't go off on a limb and repeat everything everyone is saying here because most of it is true. Probably the main thing that you should know is that we are probably the hardest and most frustrating class in the game to learn and play. Yes we are useful and can be great, but we are very player skill dependent for snap reaction and extremely gear / casting order dependent if you intend on making the parse.Is it possible.... yes... Is it easy?... hell no.We can bring a lot to a raid... not nearly as much as our counterparts, but by throwing our explosive corpse at a mob we can make them forget about everyone else. *nods* And for that there will always be one of us on a raid. =p

[Grimlux]

If it wasnt for needing CC in VoES (sorta) and MC. Coercer's would be up [Removed for Content] creek. As for raiding. I parse about 1k-1.4k if I am trying my hardest.

[XFnarX]

My DPS really varies. It is dependent on gear / mob / if it AEs so on and so on.First tip, make an illu friend in the guild. Offer a pack trade, Tandem for Dehate... and put a few of those AA into the Dehate to sweeten the deal. Ok now that you have Tandem... cast... a lot. If it takes more than 2sec to cast and doesnt' do more than 1,500 damage (overall) it's not worth casting. It's better to cast a 0.5sec spell and hope Tandem goes off.Know your mobs! If you know the mob is coming in with an AE that will hit at least 6 people open with Spell Curse. Yes this is dangerous... but this is why I have my 0.5sec 1 hate position drop right next to it. =pDoesn't AE? Ok go for Hostage ASAP! Get those debuffs on and start playing wack a mole with your DoTs and DDs.if you follow this method you'll parse above 1,300. Eventually you'll learn mobs and how to suck up to other mages / shamans for buffs and learn that your class is very gear and other player dependent for DPS. Eventually you too will be able to break 2k consistently! (only took me since game launch =D)But just make sure once you start parsing over 2k... like after you get your epic... and +50% or higher crits... with 700+ or more spell damage mod... oh did I mention proc gear?... dont' forget tandem!... oh right back to my point. Once you get all of that just to break 2k and push 3k from time to time, don't get upset when you are beaten by tanks and healers randomly because their epics actually do stuff. Wait... did I say that out loud... huh.

[Dravendar]

<p>To OP:</p><p>I first started my toon as an illusionist before the big bump that they got and switched to the dark side when they still had some value in raids back in T6.  </p><p>I'll tell you right now that heroic content wise (heck..raid wise too), coercers just do not measure up to an illy.  I had more fun, got more compliments and was wanted in groups much more as an illy.  </p><p>You are crazy to pick a coercer for ANY reason at this point.  You state that you want to stay evil and that is your reason for picking a coercer?  Heh.  If your alignment choice is the major factor in deciding what you play, you probably belong on a pvp or RP server.  If you don't, then I don't know what to say about your mindset.    </p><p>If I hadn't invested so much into my coercer, I would be on the illy boards right now.</p>

[roces9]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svenghali@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>So if you are in a pickup group ask them if they want you to mez adds as needed or not. Don't be a Mezz tyrant and hollar at every person who breaks mez even though it may annoy the heck out you. An AE heavy group may not need to mezz depending on circumstances. Just go with the flow.</blockquote>When you're in the lower levels (or even higher), tell them you're just working on your quick response timing and skills and not to worry too much about breaking your mezzes.  And then do that.  Mez stuff in groups or that's coming in as an add. Work on getting quick enough to lock something down before anyone even notices you have an add at all. Just like everyone else needs to hone their skills and abilities, so do you <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>This is so true. Mezes get broken so less frequently once you get good enough to lock them down before they even reach the group. Also hot keys do wonders for Mezzing, so get something unique. I use an emote (/control iirc) that says "Ofaelol let's everyone know he has %t under control!" and has a voiceover with it in addition to my group message. Some people use messages in /say because they stand out more.

[XFnarX]

<cite>Dravendar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>To OP:</p><p>I first started my toon as an illusionist before the big bump that they got and switched to the dark side when they still had some value in raids back in T6.  </p><p>I'll tell you right now that heroic content wise (heck..raid wise too), coercers just do not measure up to an illy.  I had more fun, got more compliments and was wanted in groups much more as an illy.  </p><p>You are crazy to pick a coercer for ANY reason at this point.  You state that you want to stay evil and that is your reason for picking a coercer?  Heh.  If your alignment choice is the major factor in deciding what you play, you probably belong on a pvp or RP server.  If you don't, then I don't know what to say about your mindset.    </p><p>If I hadn't invested so much into my coercer, I would be on the illy boards right now.</p></blockquote>I feel the same honestly. If I hadn't been playing since launch with my Coercer and seen all the BS we've been through then I'd probably switched a long time ago. You have to an amazing Coercer just to stand beside your sub-par Illu. There's something seriously wrong with this picture...

[Oriax]

<p>To the OP:</p><p>I myself have played my 80 Coercer from 1-80 solo about 99% of the time. The other 1% going to groups. Yes that's 100% and no I have never raided with him. I would definately say that we are not broken for solo play. On the road to 80 I tried my hand in just about all of the dungeons and instances I could. Now with the addition of RoK and their attempt to take away a soloers ability to do dungeons and instances. They may have succeeded with probably all other classes except for the Coercer. You know the Coercer must be the superior class if one can go into a T8 dungeon or instance and come out alive with some loot.</p>

[standupwookie]

One of the main design problems with EQ2 as it relates to EQ1 is this:EQ1 was designed within the realms of what classes COULD do.EQ2 was specifically designed within the realms of what classes should NOT do.In EQ1 you could pull off some amazing things.  You could solo dungeons even at lower levels, you had to know your class but you could do it.  I remember taking my monk (with average equipment) to Sol A when the mobs were yellow and white and FDing to the bar.  Then sneaking to the goblin merchant.  Sure, death could happen at any instance but it was possible.  Most classes could do those types of things.In EQ2, that stuff was not allowed.  No classes should be able to do heroic things.  That is why they made the encounter system, so you could never ever spilt mobs like the monk or necro in EQ1.  That is why when you charm a mob it turns into a lowbie mob as opposed to the mobs you could charm in EQ1.  Of course, there is very few if any encounters in EQ2 that need mobs to be mezzed...because encounters are encounters and are designed for groups, not classes.

[XFnarX]

Congratz for pointing out the obvious? Tho on a serious note I agree with you 100% That's why I liked EQ1 WAY better than this game. Given it got really bad after PoP, but if you knew your class really really well you were an amazing player that could do amazing things. In EQ2 you are limited by the games created and slowly growing restrictions. Even if you are the BEST in your class you can only go so far. What causes this? People that don't know how to play complaining about other classes that are "better" than their's thus ruining the game for everyone else. Doesn't this sound familiar? Oh yeah this happens everyday in life too... People who excel or are better than others and think ahead of the game are normally restricted by the rules and boundaries set in place by the mass populous of morons. Yup... I went there...

[Jeepned2]

<cite>Renavatio wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have spent alot of time checking out this forum trying to decide if I wanted to try a coercer.  I completely understand that the coercer has major issues with the end game content and the devs are either to stupid or lazy to fix things.  My question though is if a coercer is worth playing from a non-raiding standpoint?  I have a brigand that I raid with on a regular basis but wanted to try to roll an alt.  I wont be raiding with this toon at all and just want to enjoy some nice small groups.  My two picks at this point are a fury or coercer.  I don't want to play an illusionist as I wanted to keep my toon evil.</p></blockquote><p>Ah my young evil Jedi..... the class is still fun..... the class for now still has some usefullness in raids..... but we are a sinking ship.  The SoE team has made it clear that they hate Crowd Control. I guess when you play an Assassin you don't want anyone around who could force you to lower your dps due to mezzed mobs in the area.  So think hard about being a Coercer.  Between those who have quit, those who have betrayed and those who just can't play a Coercer, we are becoming a smaller and smaller community. We are one of the hardest classes to play. We also are about the squishiest so be prepare to die..... A LOT! Comes with the territory.  Not trying to tell you not to pick the Coercer, cause I truely believe, Nerfs and all, that is the class that is the most fun to play.  Plus if you are truely evil you get to do a lot of really evil things, like that a ^^^ mob as a pet, go to a zone in point or evac point and wait for an assassin to zone in then type /Quit. Let the assassin play with that ^^^. There are other ways to mess with people too. Depends on if you want to be know as a guy who does these things. Of course you could be like me and be very selective : ) .</p><p>Ok, joking aside, the class still has it's appeal for those who love serious challenges.  We can still do amazing things with our toons, it just takes us longer to do them now and not in raid zones.  The class has some serious problems that I'm not counting on ever being fixed. If you look at all the problems and can still say I like what I see, then good luck with your new Coercer.</p>

[Alienor]

<cite>Jeepned2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>We can still do amazing things with our toons, it just takes us longer to do them now and not in raid zones.  </p><p><i>personally i would prefer not being able to do those things (which I do not do anyways as I cannot find any joy in slowly reaching some named by charmkill and taking 20mins to fight it down) but would like to trade this for better dps and better survivability. Obviously I am a solo player. And opposed to some other guy stating the class is hardly broken for solo, it is broken for me as I am using the same reactives and mezzes to do (or rather not do) dps. Just my personal feeling, ymmv. </i></p><p>The class has some serious problems that I'm not counting on ever being fixed. </p><i>Me too.</i></blockquote>

[roces9]

I have a lowbie Corercer and I just want to say that I'm having a blast playing him in groups. Solo is okay, but it is definitely hard. Like the other day, I was in a Stormhold group where I was the highest level toon (27 and the next closest was like 23). For some reason we ended up in this "Well" place that I had never been with a bunch of 26 dragon thingies. I charmed one, we Evaced to the front and it ran show for the rest of the time we were in there. It out DPS'd a few of the groupies and it even stole aggro from the tank (who still had my aggro buff). Plus I was keeping the sub-par group together with stuns, dazes and mezzes... which always feel good.

[Aurumn]

<p>Groups can present unexpected fun. I've often been the last one standing only to scramble around spamming mezz and root until I pinned the last mob down long enough to whittle it down. The mage mob in DFC that I honestly think is a coercer is pretty good for making me tank it. (the one that always charms your tank at the start of the fight). I've gotten into mezz-wars with coercer mobs... somewhat amusing as long as something else isn't wailing on you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I've learned to cringe when I realize I'm fighting another coercer. </p><p>My favorite was once in RoV when we accidentally pulled a mean heroic with the encounter we meant to pull... wiped the whole group but me. I was rooting and mezzing my fingers off through a chain of resists as the tank was saying " run for it!... " but I kept at it. Then the tank says "unless you think you can charm that thing, lol" ... and I did with a sliver of health left. THAT was hilarious. Used a feather to rezz the healer then invised myself while the healer picked the rest up off the floor. Then I turned the pet loose so everyone could have their revenge. Priceless... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>