DPS Mod broken on Test for Ranged - Validate plz

[Entilor]

<p>DPS Mod indcates a %increase to auto attack damage in the persona window.  This value is accurate for melee and in-accurate for ranged.</p><p>Any others available on Live and/or test please validate the following data:</p><p>Data - 04/06/08-04/07/08 - Test Pvp Server - /testcopy character from Live Server</p><p><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2245/2395792711_5794cd8ac1_o.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="726" height="494" /></p><p>Further numerical analysis results in the following DPS mod curves </p><p><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2314/2396551034_47b0ae14eb_o.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="834" height="501" /></p><p>Hence - Persona window values for DPS mod are incorrect for ranged weapons and therfore misleading.</p><p>Ent Aka Etesith L80 Ranger</p>

[Freliant]

Forgive my noobness... I like numbers, but personally, I don't know what I am looking at. Can you give me a layman's term of what that graph shows?

[44Dragon]

<cite></cite><p><b><i>Edited because I'm too cranky to type.</i></b></p><p><b><i><--- needs a snack</i></b></p>

[Entilor]

<p>Sure  ..</p><p>Graph indicates the %increase to Base damage (Min and to Max on seperate lines for Melee and for ranged on Test) Vs DPS mod.</p><p>For example @ 47 Dps Mod - </p><p>Melee Base Min Damage Increase = 50% (Cartoid Min Line)</p><p>Melee Base Max Damage Increase = 49.16% (Cartoid Max Line)</p><p>Ranged Base Min Damage Increase = 26.73% (ET Min Line)</p><p>Ranged Base Max Damage Increase = 40.96% (ET Max Line)</p><p>The table provides a simpler view, the graph is provided to see the "larger picture"</p><p>Values in the Persona window are accurate when compared to melee results and not so when applied to ranged</p><p>Ent aka Etesith L80 Ranger</p>

[Freliant]

<p>Ahhhh I think I understand. You are saying that the persona display is not updating properly that what is really going on! Thank you, I think I get it now. My fault was in not realizing that you were mentioning the persona screen. For some reason I was thinking actual in game numbers <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p>

[Freliant]

<p><cite>Edited per request. ^_^</cite></p><p><cite> Good gaming to all.</cite></p>

[Entilor]

<p>Maybe the persona numbers are wrong </p><p>Maybe the DPS mod mechanics for ranged are wrong</p><p>Can not say ... given that there is no "official reference"</p><p>Perhaps this is a 1H vs 2H mechanic and has impact across many classes  .. perhaps its a bug .. no clue</p><p>and ... this may explain in part why there are reports of melee auto dps > ranged auto dps despite better ranged stats</p><p>What I do know is that it is misleading to players trying to improve there play for an already complicated class.</p><p>Ent aka Etesith L80 ranger</p>

[ZababEW]

1 more hidden thing  under the hood. That just proove more and more that they have difficulty to give the right dps to a range class. They have no clue how to balance this out. They are afraid to give T1 supposed dps class to a range class. Too easy to unbalance. They need to separate completly pvp ranger to pve ranger. And give the pve range the place they should have.

[ZababEW]

hey Entilor, do u think u do the same thing for live server before they patch to see if that a ninja change pls.

[Entilor]

<p>I think I will pass on that  ... I am simply testing to bring a better understanding of the changes on test and perhaps bring complex issues to the forefront so that they can be addressed.</p><p>the AA ability "Extension" for example .... clarified: it does not impact auto attack hit rates ... this was news to me.</p><p>Extension thread - <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=414018" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=414018</a></p><p>figuring out whats actually happening without an accurate reference model is very time intensive and the time I can commit to this is limited.</p><p>What appears as a short and simple analysis was the result of many many hrs of testing and even more spent on analysis. If I knew the "right" questions to ask and examine it would be simple .... but as it is now ... its like wandering in the dark</p><p>But .. anyone can check these things on live </p><p>Ent aka Etesith</p>

[Kenban]

I am pretty sure what we are seeing is that DPS mod does not effect the +damage from arrows. At the low end of the bow the bonus damage from arrows is huge compared to the base damage so we see a very small percentage increase in damage. At the other end though the bonus is quite small compared to the bow damage and it appears to almost scale correctly. If anything this just proves how useless anything other then field point are going to be based on the current changes. An extra couple of damage is not worth almost any loss of accuracy.

[Odawnus Haste]

<cite>ZababEW wrote:</cite><blockquote>1 more hidden thing  under the hood. That just proove more and more that they have difficulty to give the right dps to a range class. They have no clue how to balance this out. They are afraid to give T1 supposed dps class to a range class. Too easy to unbalance. They need to separate completly pvp ranger to pve ranger. And give the pve range the place they should have.</blockquote>You should know pvp already has its different stats when engaged in pvp, so it really doesn't make a difference. Any dps change on pve servers should also effect the pve aspect on a pvp server. Just because pvp is enable on those servers it is still Everquest 2, people do pve on those servers.

[Krakelkr]

<cite>Entilor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>DPS Mod indcates a %increase to auto attack damage in the persona window.  This value is accurate for melee and in-accurate for ranged.</p><p>Any others available on Live and/or test please validate the following data:</p><p>Data - 04/06/08-04/07/08 - Test Pvp Server - /testcopy character from Live Serversnip</p></blockquote>I suggest to unequip arrows before doing the test.

[Entilor]

<cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Entilor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>DPS Mod indcates a %increase to auto attack damage in the persona window.  This value is accurate for melee and in-accurate for ranged.</p><p>Any others available on Live and/or test please validate the following data:</p><p>Data - 04/06/08-04/07/08 - Test Pvp Server - /testcopy character from Live Serversnip</p></blockquote>I suggest to unequip arrows before doing the test.</blockquote><p>Thanks Krakelkrak ... this is the case and this coupled with other "discoveries" and clarifications allow for a verifiable DPS model on ranged attacks.  Sadly, it appears that rather then help rangers as I had hoped ... it will only add fuel to the fire.</p><p>Ent aka Etesith</p>

[Effidian]

I *think* this is caused by the 20% reduction to ranged auto-attack damage.  Because of this STR and DPS will both affect ranged auto-attack 20% less than they do melee auto-attack.  (I suppose that also holds true for crit and double attack as well.)

[Tyberi]

<cite>Entilor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Krakelkrak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Entilor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>DPS Mod indcates a %increase to auto attack damage in the persona window.  This value is accurate for melee and in-accurate for ranged.</p><p>Any others available on Live and/or test please validate the following data:</p><p>Data - 04/06/08-04/07/08 - Test Pvp Server - /testcopy character from Live Serversnip</p></blockquote>I suggest to unequip arrows before doing the test.</blockquote><p>Thanks Krakelkrak ... this is the case and this coupled with other "discoveries" and clarifications allow for a verifiable DPS model on ranged attacks.  Sadly, it appears that rather then help rangers as I had hoped ... it will only add fuel to the fire.</p><p>Ent aka Etesith</p></blockquote>This mechanic is the damage handicap that was placed on ranged weapons when they fixed the level handicap arrows.

[Entilor]

<p>It would appear that it goes - </p><p>Weapon Base Damage * (1 + dps Mod) + Arrow Damage = Actual Base Damage</p><p>Actual Base Damage * Haste * ((Crit Rate * (Crit Bonus - 1))+1) * (1 + Double Attack rate)</p><p>Where 'Arrow Damage'  </p><p>           = 0 for non ammo based weapons</p><p>           = +mod listed on Ammo for ranged weapons (Bodkin: +184 Pierce, so Arrow Damage = 184) </p><p>Where 'Crit Bounus' = ((((max/1.3)-min)/(max-min))*(max)+(1-(((max/1.3)-min)/(max-min)))*(1.15*max))/((max+min)/2) <Leanan 03/22/07 -http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=353709 ></p><p>So with ranged items DPS mods scale off the base weapon stats and not the actual DPS of the weapon in use ( ie actually using the weapon )</p><p>Given the multiplicative nature of these bonuses, all +mods that are applied to ranged are done so at a significantly lower effective value.</p><p>For Melee with 0 Dps Mod, 0 Crit</p><p>+1 DA on melee = +%1 to Auto DPS</p><p>For Melee with 47 Dps Mod (49%), 0 Crit</p><p>+1 DA on melee = +%1.49 to Auto DPS</p><p>+1 DA on ranged = dunno ... depends on base bow, ammo, crit rate, and what DPS mod is</p><p>for ET Bow with 0 Dps Mod, 0 Crit and Bodkin ammo </p><p>+1 DA = 1% to Auto DPS</p><p>for ET Bow with 47 Dps Mod (49%), 0 Crit  and Bodkin ammo </p><p>+1 DA ~ 1.25% to Auto DPS</p><p>I am only showing an example for DA .. but this is true for DA, Crit, Haste, Str, etc ..... </p><p>Maximizing Ranged DPS is still like "magic" and not at all obvious ...</p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><u><b>Had the implementation gone - </b></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><u><b>(Weapon Base Damage + Arrow Damage) * (1 + dps Mod) = Actual Base Damage</b></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><u><b>Actual Base Damage * Haste * ((Crit Rate * (Crit Bonus - 1))+1) * (1 + Double Attack rate)</b></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><u><b>Everything would scale the same .. ie Melee and Ranged</b></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><u><b>and Arrows would most likely be adjusted to different values on 'Arrow Damage'</b></u></span></p><p>Ent Aka Etesith</p>