Ports and Crashing to Character Select

[Spontz]

Ever since GU42, I've been having a rather serious problem.  I will periodically crash to the character select screen; when I return, I have to relog, as groups, items, and the like will be extremely buggy until I do.  This happens without pattern or warning.  Sometimes it happens so often that the game is effectively unplayable.  Before GU42, EQ2 worked perfectly for a full year, and no settings on my end have changed in any way.I've tried contacting Sony tech support, but they have been utterly useless.  Before someone cautions me about speaking unkindly of the tech support people, "useless" is a <i>very</i> kind and polite way of describing the situation.  They have been trying to tell me that it's all my fault for using a router.  The usual "solution" is to stop using a router and firewall and connect to the Internet with no protection whatsoever.  The next best "solution" is to open a port range on my router... the port range given was 1000 to 64400!  The latest insane response from tech support was that I'd only need to do this <i>once</i>, and then go back to normal settings.  Admittedly, I'm not a computer science degree-holder, but that seems to make no sense whatsoever.  If a lack of open ports were causing the problem, then it would cause the problem whether or not the ports had briefly been opened.Sony tech support steadfastly refuses to escalate my support ticket, so I'm turning to you folks for help.Is there a solution to this problem?  Does it have to do with open ports?  If so, which ones?  Every response from Sony has listed different ports, and one person even claimed that the ports change with every patch or game update.This problem, and the way Sony tech support has treated me, has me so infuriated that I'm close to quitting the game.  So if anyone knows of a solution, I'd be most grateful.

[Spontz]

Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

[Ticien]

Since GU42 I have been randomly crashing all the way to desktop.  Don't know if it is caused by the same issue but I havent been able to figure it out either.  I get a message saying the application ran out of memory when requesting "1093049534893" (rough estimate) bytes of memory.  I had read something a long time ago about someone who had issues with crashing and fixed it by changing the sound options.  I tried that but then the game sounded crappy.  I know this isn't much help, just wanted you to know you aren't alone.

[Jal]

I had a similar issue with crashing to character select on zoning a while back, the fix was getting a new cable modem as it turned out that was the problem.

[Wingrider01]

<cite>Ilmarinen@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ever since GU42, I've been having a rather serious problem.  I will periodically crash to the character select screen; when I return, I have to relog, as groups, items, and the like will be extremely buggy until I do.  This happens without pattern or warning.  Sometimes it happens so often that the game is effectively unplayable.  Before GU42, EQ2 worked perfectly for a full year, and no settings on my end have changed in any way.I've tried contacting Sony tech support, but they have been utterly useless.  Before someone cautions me about speaking unkindly of the tech support people, "useless" is a <i>very</i> kind and polite way of describing the situation.  They have been trying to tell me that it's all my fault for using a router.  The usual "solution" is to stop using a router and firewall and connect to the Internet with no protection whatsoever.  The next best "solution" is to open a port range on my router... the port range given was 1000 to 64400!  The latest insane response from tech support was that I'd only need to do this <i>once</i>, and then go back to normal settings.  Admittedly, I'm not a computer science degree-holder, but that seems to make no sense whatsoever.  If a lack of open ports were causing the problem, then it would cause the problem whether or not the ports had briefly been opened.Sony tech support steadfastly refuses to escalate my support ticket, so I'm turning to you folks for help.Is there a solution to this problem?  Does it have to do with open ports?  If so, which ones?  Every response from Sony has listed different ports, and one person even claimed that the ports change with every patch or game update.This problem, and the way Sony tech support has treated me, has me so infuriated that I'm close to quitting the game.  So if anyone knows of a solution, I'd be most grateful.</blockquote><p>From the knowledge base on configuring firewalls</p><hr />  <p>EQ II Firewall Information Sony Online Entertainment does not support the use of firewalls and proxies, including cable/DSL NAT routers, campus and office networks, or any type of Internet connection sharing services. However, in an effort to assist you in configuring your systems on your own, we would like to provide the following information which may help you in setting up your firewall to work with EverQuest II. EverQuest II LaunchPad and Patch Servers A TCP connection is initiated to patch.station.sony.com at port 7000. A UDP connection is initiated to port range 3016-3021 and 9700-9703. EverQuest II Patch: A TCP connection is initiated at port 7010. EverQuest II Game Client: UDP connections are initiated from the EverQuest II client on UDP ports 9100, and UDP ports in the range 32800-33000. Additionally, ICMP messages type 0 (echo reply), 3 (unreachable), 8 (echo request) and 11 (expired) should be permitted bi-directionally between the client PC and the EverQuest II servers. EverQuest II Servers Subnets: There are multiple IP addresses for the Patch and LaunchPad clusters, and they may change as the network demands, so check often using a DNS lookup tool if you provide a specific firewall rule for these services. The EverQuest II server IP addresses are currently in these subnets: 64.37.158.*, 199.108.2.*, 199.108.12.*, 199.108.202.*, 199.108.203.*, 195.33.135.* </p><hr />It is not a "solution" it is a requirement for the game to play. This is not unusual for internet based applications. The only standard ports in use at the home level are normally web browsing - 80 for unsecure, 443 for ssl. The eq2 world is made up of a server farm, each box in that farm hosts one or more static zones, other boxes host the various instances. Hence the need for non-standard ports to be opened. <p>Routers/firewalls/av's are considered CPE (customer Provided equipment) and as such are up for the end user to configure correctly, companies will provide the required information for ports, ip's, etc but will not assist the end user in configuration of the equipment, this is a liability if the support person or the end user misinterperts the command and enters it in correctly causing a security breech.  The end user has two options - read the manual that came with the equipment or contract out to a local support company that will take responsiblity for any errors in configuration.</p><p>Post changing with every patch - this is correct, when a server with in the farm or the entire farm is reset, it will get a different UDP port from the range that is assigned to it, in this case the port range is 3016-3021 and 9700-9703 UDP. Nothing new, there are various other games on the market that utilize the same type of server farm technology.</p><p>As far as the out of memory, have seen this mainly occur with Vista, there is a series of 4 hotfixes that are not normally downloaded in the Microsoft Update that help aleviate the issue with eq2 and various other games, in addition these and other memory/graphics fixes are included in the newly released SP1 for Vista.</p><p>Basicly the game will run behind a properly configured router,firewall, internet security package and even on Vista with the UAC configured properly. The keyword here is properly configured, that is up to the end user to accomplish, all any company will officially supply is what is needed to accomplish it, not how to do it. If they supplied the how, that would make them liable for security breaches in the eye of the end user and suject to legal ramifications in todays society.</p>

[MisterE]

So if the problem is with folks using routers and what not.  Can a person with savvy perhaps recommend some good links for reading material on how to setup those ports?  and to allow these things?

[Spontz]

Wingrider01 -- thanks, but I can't imagine that will help.  For one thing, the techs all gave different port ranges than the one listed there, and one tech said the ports change every time there's a patch.  For another, the game worked perfectly for a full year with exactly the same settings I have now.  For a third, opening those ports didn't improve the problem.  For a fourth, opening the router completely to the Internet and making it fully vulnerable did nothing to help.That's basically what the technicians have been quoting at me: Sony doesn't support routers or firewalls, you have to get every possible Internet worm and virus if you want to play, etc.  But it worked perfectly for a <i>full year</i> before this happened.  So obviously, routers can work with EQ2.

[tigerstripe29]

<p>Don't bother trying to port forward.  I attempted literally everything to solve this problem including forwarding to all the provided port forwarding ranges and even adding my comcast router to the demilitarized zone (literally no router protection whatsoever).  The game still continually crashed to the character selection screen.</p><p>The problem comes from a certain type of Netgear router that Comcast installs that for some strange reason is completely incompatible with Everquest 2.  I have not met one person with the same router that I have that has managed to fix this problem.  Once I talked to my neighbors and asked if I could use their wireless router during certain hours (which is a different type of netgear), I could play again.</p><p>Good luck solving your problem - private message me if you want more specifics.</p>

[Wingrider01]

<cite>Ilmarinen@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wingrider01 -- thanks, but I can't imagine that will help.  For one thing, the techs all gave different port ranges than the one listed there, and one tech said the ports change every time there's a patch.  For another, the game worked perfectly for a full year with exactly the same settings I have now.  For a third, opening those ports didn't improve the problem.  For a fourth, opening the router completely to the Internet and making it fully vulnerable did nothing to help.That's basically what the technicians have been quoting at me: Sony doesn't support routers or firewalls, you have to get every possible Internet worm and virus if you want to play, etc.  But it worked perfectly for a <i>full year</i> before this happened.  So obviously, routers can work with EQ2.</blockquote><p>MisterE</p><p>The first recommendation would be the manual for your router. Another great location for non-technical information on equipment and providers is <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.dslreports.com/" target="_blank">http://www.dslreports.com/</a> Configuration of home level equipment is not that complex in 90 percent of the cases, it is normally just filling in a web page that is on the router with the proper parameters.</p><p><cite>Ilmarinen</cite></p><p>Yes the ports do change after every reboot of the server, but the key statements that where left out is they change to something within the posted range, they do not change to something that is outside the referenced range of ports. If you open the range in the Port Triggering panelof the router that is given in the knowledge base for the correct protocal then you are covered for that issue.</p><p>SOE does not support routers - correct in a way, they do not support the <u>configuration</u> of the end users routers - that would be a liability in the making if they did. Very few companies supply support to configure a end users routers, those that do better have huge liablity insurance policies, or a signerd statemnet of work releasing them form any liability showed anything occur to compromise the integrety of the network due to their modifications. SOE supplies the list of required ports for router configuration, it is up to the end user to get it correctly configured, this is SOP. The game will run behind a properly configuried security setup</p><p>No one ever said that any of SOE's games will not work with a router, have been playing behind home level routers/firewalls (aka Linksys, Nethear, etc) since 1998 for EQ1 beta, currenlty playing behind a commercial level Cisco PIC 5XX series router/firewall. The key words here are "Properly Configured". The suggestions to disable firewalls, remove routers are standard troubleshooting steps, if you disable or remove something in the network configuration and everything automagicly starts working then you know where the configuration issue is and where to concentrate the resolution steps. At that point a call to the router manufacturer is probably in order for the correct configuration steps.</p><p>Have started seeing a trend in some of the ISP provided equipment, a few cable broadband providers with names that start with C have started providing locked down routers and firewalls that only they can control, this includes bandwidth throttling and strict SPI rules engaged that cause problems with online gaming, this is to protect themselves from RIAA, if you look at the post from tigerstripe29 you will see come verification of this.</p><p>Can you post your router brand, broadband supplier, if it is broadband supplied equipment, and router firmware level, might help a little to get you back up and running.</p>

[Spontz]

Wingrider01, I know you aren't saying that EQ2 will not work with a router, but that is absolutely what the Sony techs are saying. They don't support routers, and EQ2 will not work with routers. They're quite specific about that. Regarding the port changes, what you say makes sense... the techs didn't explain it that way, but rather used it as a reason why I should open my router completely, all ports. My router is a LinkSys BEFSR81, firmware version 2.44.2. I tried to upgrade the firmware a while ago, but LinkSys didn't have anything for this model. The router is mine, the cable modem was provided by Comcast. Thank you very much for being willing to help with this! Sony should be paying you, instead of their technical disservice reps. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Wingrider01]

<cite>Ilmarinen@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wingrider01, I know you aren't saying that EQ2 will not work with a router, but that is absolutely what the Sony techs are saying. They don't support routers, and EQ2 will not work with routers. They're quite specific about that.Regarding the port changes, what you say makes sense... the techs didn't explain it that way, but rather used it as a reason why I should open my router completely, all ports.My router is a LinkSys BEFSR81, firmware version 2.44.2. I tried to upgrade the firmware a while ago, but LinkSys didn't have anything for this model. The router is mine, the cable modem was provided by Comcast.Thank you very much for being willing to help with this! Sony should be paying you, instead of their technical disservice reps. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>There is a major difference between SUPPORTING routers and WORKING with routers. They are correct - they will not support a router configuration, it is up to you enter the correct parameters in the router to get it to work. It will work, used the BEFSR41 for a number of years before I upgraded to a commercial level PIX firewall.</p><p>There are 3 different BEFSR81's out, version 1.0, version 3.0 and version 3.1</p><p>Take a look in the router documentation that references port triggering - chapter 7, page 29, add this to the knowledge base article your commands would be:</p><p>Application everquest2_1 start port = 7000 end port = 7000</p><p>Application everquest2_2 start port = 3016 end port = 3021</p><p>Application everquest2_3 start port = 9700 end port = 9703</p><p>Application everquest2_4 start port = 7010 end port = 7010</p><p>Application everquest2_5 start port = 9100 end port = 9100</p><p>Application everquest2_6 start port = 32800 end port = 33000</p><p>Unfortunately the Linksys router is older home level device so that is the limit of configuration possible on that particular device. There is no way to enter any more rules to drop it to the granular level for restricting the incoming IP addresses or the protocals allowed, in addtion you cannot open the router fo the ICMP type 0, 3, 8 or 11. Those requirments are new since I used the Linksys, I can enter them into the IOS for the PIX I am using and it might be possible in some of the newer home level devices. </p><p>My payment is simple, if I can get a configuration working for someone then that is enough - you really do not want to know what we charge for support at my company<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Spontz]

Thank you very, <i>very</i> much, Wingrider01!  I've made these changes, and tomorrow I'll find out whether or not they do the trick.

[Wingrider01]

<cite>Ilmarinen@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thank you very, <i>very</i> much, Wingrider01!  I've made these changes, and tomorrow I'll find out whether or not they do the trick.</blockquote>If they don't then will need to look deeper in the full system configuration and get some diagnostic text

[Spontz]

It didn't work. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I was afraid that would be the case.  I think it's significant that EQ2 worked perfectly with no port forwarding or triggering for a full year before this started.  And I had already opened some of those ports (only the single ones were new) in trying to resolve this.Thank you, Wingrider01.  I really appreciate your help.  It may not have worked, but you were much more helpful than the Sony techs have been. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Wingrider01]

<cite>Ilmarinen@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>It didn't work. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />I was afraid that would be the case.  I think it's significant that EQ2 worked perfectly with no port forwarding or triggering for a full year before this started.  And I had already opened some of those ports (only the single ones were new) in trying to resolve this.Thank you, Wingrider01.  I really appreciate your help.  It may not have worked, but you were much more helpful than the Sony techs have been. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Can you post system details please, need to see the DXDIAG and MSInfo on the system - particularly interested in the MSInfo. There is a stickied post on the forum telling you how to run it and what portions to post. Do not need to see all of it but do need to see the portions that are listed in that stickied post. If you don;t mind start with the MSInfo, the solution maybe there and th DXDiag may not be needed.

[Spontz]

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[Spontz]

Does anything in all that mess suggest a problem?

[Wingrider01]

<cite>Ilmarinen@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Does anything in all that mess suggest a problem?</blockquote><p>Couple of things to try, one step at a time, I know it is a PIA but trying to narrow it down. Want to do a little digging into the DM2.exe that is running, a quick search shows 5 or 6 different applications that it could be.</p><p>1. As a test, uninstall Spybot, have seen teatimer cause rare port issues. see if the issue goes away after that</p><p>2. If step 1 does not solve it, disable Itunes on startup and see what happens</p><p>Do not see a AV running, or you are running one I am not familiar with as far as the executables to look for, what do you have installed?</p><p>I apologize for not getting back to you earlier have been out of touch with the internet for a few day and just got back today.</p>

[Spontz]

Not to worry, not to worry.  You're being far more helpful than the techs who are getting paid for this.  I'm not about to complain if you don't manage to spend every minute of every day checking the forum. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I've tried disabling Spybot -- and everything, in fact, through msconfig -- and it didn't help.  I'll try uninstalling it next, just in case it's like ZoneAlarm and leaves bits active even when turned off.  I'm not running any antivirus, because it always causes more problems than it solves (I do periodically install one, update it, scan, and uninstall, and so far I haven't had a virus since I intentionally gave my computer the Michelangelo virus about twenty years ago).I'll uninstall Spybot tonight, and post if anything changes.