If tradeskill aa's were caught caught up to Adv aa's what would they be? [Archive]

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Oakum

04-02-2008, 09:51 AM

Just a question to see what people think. Class aa tree would have scholar, craftsman, and outfitter which would be a lot easier then the 12 classes the adv side has, lol. Subclass would be ww, alchie, armorer, ect. I think that generic buffs increased output of a recipie for consumables. For endline abilities in the generic class i would think increased chances to get rare reactions. For subclass I could see special recipies as the end line items. Arrows with special damage types like taunt arrows for tanks, potions that do double heal/power regen amount but take rare dust to make, ect.

04-02-2008, 12:29 PM

I personally don't like the premis of having to spend ap points to improve my tradeskills, if you read any of the ROK threads about tradeskills and how "unfair" (tm) it was to the pure crafter you will find that i am not alone in not liking the idea. Although mostlikely for completly different reasons.

Rashaak

04-02-2008, 12:42 PM

<cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote>I personally don't like the premis of having to spend ap points to improve my tradeskills, if you read any of the ROK threads about tradeskills and how "unfair" (tm) it was to the pure crafter you will find that i am not alone in not liking the idea. Although mostlikely for completly different reasons.</blockquote>*roll's eyes after reading 'pure' crafter comment*Domino, can I please have some type of Pure Crafter of Smiting mallet...Get off the whole pure crafter kick will ya! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> It's a tired subject....really...it isI do not think the person was looking at tieing Crafting into Adventuring by making it an AA tree....I think he meant an AA tree for the crafter.

04-02-2008, 12:52 PM

Obviously you have never read any of my comments in those threads.. My point was simply I don't like the premis of having to spend ap points on having to improve my crafting. ME personally i just don't like the idea, others whom are "pure crafters" will also not like it but cause they are pure crafters. It while might be a very tired subject in your mind is one of the different types of playstyles in this game.I think he meant an AA tree for the crafter.Soo how does one get these "aa"? i assume by adventuring.. SOo again back to my comment I personally detest the premis of having to spend ap points for my crafting.

Rashaak

04-02-2008, 12:58 PM

<cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote>Obviously you have never read any of my comments in those threads.. My point was simply I don't like the premis of having to spend ap points on having to improve my crafting. ME personally i just don't like the idea, others whom are "pure crafters" will also not like it but cause they are pure crafters. It while might be a very tired subject in your mind is one of the different types of playstyles in this game.</blockquote>Look, take the piece of coal squeezed between you cheeks out for a sec, and READHe was talking about having an AP tree for CRAFTERS!!!!!!!!So, your first time pristine would award in AP points as well as exp. Quests tailored to...um...crafters (this would include pure crafters too *pats his head*). Would award in AP exp for CRAFTING!

Kitsune286

04-02-2008, 01:08 PM

I tried giving this some thought. Most trade skills don't really do consumables, so something that would give +10% increased output would only really work on poisons/potions/food/ranged ammo. I could sort of see it if we were still making bars, pins, hilts, ect, but we are not. Thus, imo, it would be a waste of developer time when they could be adding more recipies or ts-related quests (or anything else for that matter =p )

Rattfa

04-02-2008, 01:08 PM

Crafting is already a rather trivial experience, and the addition of crafting AAs would only enhance that. Anyway, I cannot even think of a single thing that would possibly benifit a crafter that isn't already in game in some way or another.

04-02-2008, 01:09 PM

<cite>Rashaak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote>Obviously you have never read any of my comments in those threads.. My point was simply I don't like the premis of having to spend ap points on having to improve my crafting. ME personally i just don't like the idea, others whom are "pure crafters" will also not like it but cause they are pure crafters. It while might be a very tired subject in your mind is one of the different types of playstyles in this game.</blockquote>Look, take the piece of coal squeezed between you cheeks out for a sec, and READHe was talking about having an AP tree for CRAFTERS!!!!!!!!So, your first time pristine would award in AP points as well as exp. Quests tailored to...um...crafters (this would include pure crafters too *pats his head*). Would award in AP exp for CRAFTING! </blockquote>There is no reason to insult or be rude to me or anyone else in this forum. If you need time to take a break please do. What you propose is NOT mentioned by the OP, now what you propose sounds like a neat idea, although how would you handle all of those that are already max level TS?

Jal

04-02-2008, 01:17 PM

Same as current AA system, all crafting xp gets converted to crafting AA xp.

04-02-2008, 01:25 PM

<cite>Kallarn@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Same as current AA system, all crafting xp gets converted to crafting AA xp.</blockquote>I like as you suggest, but this is definatly NOT how normal AP's work. Only a portion of the xp earned goes to AP's. Although to be honest I guess i lied I don't like it, i would have to grind out AP's on my tradeskill cause i am now behind the curve for everyone else. I guess i could crank out writs for something, assuming that the tradeskill xp also covers lets say RoK writs and also the "bonus" tradeskill xp from writs also went directly to this.. Since they use geowhateveritscalledthingies versus real tradeskill stuff.

Rashaak

04-02-2008, 01:27 PM

<cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rashaak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote>Obviously you have never read any of my comments in those threads.. My point was simply I don't like the premis of having to spend ap points on having to improve my crafting. ME personally i just don't like the idea, others whom are "pure crafters" will also not like it but cause they are pure crafters. It while might be a very tired subject in your mind is one of the different types of playstyles in this game.</blockquote>Look, take the piece of coal squeezed between you cheeks out for a sec, and READHe was talking about having an AP tree for CRAFTERS!!!!!!!!So, your first time pristine would award in AP points as well as exp. Quests tailored to...um...crafters (this would include pure crafters too *pats his head*). Would award in AP exp for CRAFTING! </blockquote>There is no reason to insult or be rude to me or anyone else in this forum. If you need time to take a break please do. What you propose is NOT mentioned by the OP, now what you propose sounds like a neat idea, although how would you handle all of those that are already max level TS?</blockquote>Not being rude, just I detest the ignornace of people who don't know how to ask questions about a subject they obviously do not fully understand, and then assume it means something else that is not to their particular liking. If you had read the idea more clearly you would of come to the conclusion this idea would be an AP tree for crafters, therefore anything crafted related would result in AP exp to advance the tree line.

Rashaak

04-02-2008, 01:36 PM

<cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kallarn@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Same as current AA system, all crafting xp gets converted to crafting AA xp.</blockquote>I like as you suggest, but this is definatly NOT how normal AP's work. Only a portion of the xp earned goes to AP's. Although to be honest I guess i lied I don't like it, i would have to grind out AP's on my tradeskill cause i am now behind the curve for everyone else. I guess i could crank out writs for something, assuming that the tradeskill xp also covers lets say RoK writs and also the "bonus" tradeskill xp from writs also went directly to this.. Since they use geowhateveritscalledthingies versus real tradeskill stuff.</blockquote>Considering crafting would not need as many different tree's as say an adventurer, there most likely wouldn't be many points to put in it. Also...just because your behind the curve currently doesn't mean you won't be able to get there. Just like when AP's were introduced when KoS was introduced. Many were level 60 already, and as such missed out on previous tier disco as well as named mobs outside of their level range. However, they quickly overcame it and were maxed out by lvl 70. So, if your at end game crafting all exp would be converted to this AP for crafting, just as an adventurer who is maxed out will have all exp gained sent to their AP's.

04-02-2008, 01:42 PM

<cite>Rashaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not being rude, just I detest the ignornace of people who don't know how to ask questions about a subject they obviously do not fully understand, and then assume it means something else that is not to their particular liking. If you had read the idea more clearly you would of come to the conclusion this idea would be an AP tree for crafters, therefore anything crafted related would result in AP exp to advance the tree line. </blockquote>You personally made the assumption that ap's was to be gained from crafting. Currently this mechanic is not in the game, and the original poster did not make any mention to using this new mechanic. SOOO i went with what was in the game which apparently you have little tolerance for folks using that sort of a logic.As to asking questions you might try a different approach when trying to artiqulate a response since folks will use what is in the game to work with the idea when it is specifically mentioned that a different approach might be done.ANyways back to the whole original thread. I personally would have to agree with a previous poster, there really is no need for all of this extra dev time to implement something like this when crafting as it is today is very easy and so far for aa tree's folks are grasping at straws to try and justify them.

Umee

04-02-2008, 01:52 PM

There is NO reason for tearing each other apart. Please stay on topic! Derailed topics where all posters do is tear each other apart not only makes me a grumpy knee-biting Halfling, but it generally gets threads locked.Edit: Forgot the part about not taking bait. Just because someone says something about you (Hey Umee, your hair looks like you have a mushroom on your head!) doesn't mean you have to acknowledge that or reply back to them.

Rashaak

04-02-2008, 02:02 PM

<cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rashaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not being rude, just I detest the ignornace of people who don't know how to ask questions about a subject they obviously do not fully understand, and then assume it means something else that is not to their particular liking. If you had read the idea more clearly you would of come to the conclusion this idea would be an AP tree for crafters, therefore anything crafted related would result in AP exp to advance the tree line. </blockquote>You personally made the assumption that ap's was to be gained from crafting. Currently this mechanic is not in the game, and the original poster did not make any mention to using this new mechanic. SOOO i went with what was in the game which apparently you have little tolerance for folks using that sort of a logic.As to asking questions you might try a different approach when trying to artiqulate a response since folks will use what is in the game to work with the idea when it is specifically mentioned that a different approach might be done.Actually, this topic has been talked about in some length, many times ever since KoS came out, so there was nothing to assume. Attempting to justify what's already in-game to justify your ignorance is funny though, because any AP tree where crafting would be involved is...well...NOT IN GAME, therefore it wouldn't take one long to understand this would be something entirely new and would not be based off what mechanics are currently in-game. quote from OP: Class aa tree would have scholar, craftsman, and outfitter which would be a lot easier then the 12 classes the adv side has, lol. Subclass would be ww, alchie, armorer, ect. I think that generic buffs increased output of a recipie for consumables. For endline abilities in the generic class i would think increased chances to get rare reactions. For subclass I could see special recipies as the end line items. Arrows with special damage types like taunt arrows for tanks, potions that do double heal/power regen amount but take rare dust to make, ect. Where in any of that states mechanics currently in-game??? ANyways back to the whole original thread. I personally would have to agree with a previous poster, there really is no need for all of this extra dev time to implement something like this when crafting as it is today is very easy and so far for aa tree's folks are grasping at straws to try and justify them.</blockquote>back on topic:An AP tree will work if the development team wants it to work, and anything is possible...especially in an MMO.

04-02-2008, 02:13 PM

Rashaak, your assumtion is based on "common knowledge" common knowledge makes the assumtion everyone has had a common experience. I did not play eq2 before RoK came out, heck I didn't start playing till after RoK had been released for a while. SOOO now how am i to know this "common knowledge" about all of these "same/similar" suggestions? Again i gave my logic on how i jumped to my conclusion when i wasn't presented with a full picutre. The conversion then moved what i thought was forward filling in gaps that were missing except for you personally wanting to attack me.As to "new features" for this "ap tree" what would you suggest since you seem to be more adaminate about it? Since really that is what this thread is about then trying to attack me personally.

Bette

04-02-2008, 06:05 PM

Pretty sure this would never go in but you could spend points for levels of tradeskill classes you don't currently have. Although it would have to be either a lot of exp per point or a lot of points to get a level. Personally I'd want something like that to take a long time. Longer than it does to get regular tradeskill esp.Give you something to do once you've maxxed level and maxxed all the faction recipes.You could get bonus on your crafted stuff (if they would be willing to clutter the item database) That would also be a good way for the crafted stuff to be a bit more competitive with the RoK stuff.Provisioners could get + incombat health/mana regenCarpenters +% increase of status reduction or maybe some coin reductionArmorers/Tailors could get things like the rok quested gear has +spell damage,crit, heal crit etcI dont know much about the other classes but you get the idea.You could get the ap's for doing writs, the harvesting quests, those faction writs from kunark. Since there are not that many "first times" on those you'd have to get for each one just small amounts. As someone else mentioned the Pristine bonus would work. Maybe on rare harvests if its not too much lower than you are.Speaking of harvesting and the Aprils fools joke played by one of the red names why NOT a small increase in the chance of harvesting a rare for the end of a line of ap's.I'd personally like it to be similiar to the way adventure points work you have more options than you can gain points to spend. That would give the crafted stuff a little variety. Ah well probably never happen but its fun to think about .

Meirril

04-02-2008, 07:30 PM

Since this has been talked to death in other threads, lets bring up some of the good objections:First, to get any increases in equipment would require a whole new recipe for each possibly changed item. Lets just say armorers have a line that provides a +1 int mod per AA in it up to +5 for chain armor. This means in t3 and up adding (3 suits of chain x 7 peices for a suit x5 for the int mod) 105 new recipes. That would just be for one bubble in an entire tree. At a time in which development wishes to reduce the database clutter (evident in a lot of other tradeskill changes like pristine only combines) this makes no sense.Second, if there is a "better" version of something out there it will become the new normal. So if alchemists can choose to make 2 of 5 different super poisions available through AA then every scout will move to the 5 new super poisons and you'd only be able to compete as an alchemist if you can make them. If your segment of the market dries up, you have to re-do your AA trees to match. Third, this would create a situations similar to crafting the AA mirror. New crafters getting pristines all over the place would have a huge advantage over established crafters. All in all, while such a system sounds like a good idea it doesn't work with the crafting system we have. The parts that could work with the system we have wouldn't work for every trade skill. Quite frankly, I can't see how anything would work with Carpenters other than special recipes. Just being special recipes it doesn't make sense to exclude people from making them all if it is for their class. If you can lay out an entire AA system instead of just a thumbnail sketch or a root idea maybe you can come up with something that would actually work. However, just saying "wouldn't it be nice" leaves too much doubt in my mind that this could work at all.

Besual

04-03-2008, 12:03 PM

I doubt we will see more then one crafter AA tree (if we will see one at all).Let us assume we could get one. What lines could it have?One line could be for harvesting. Skill H1 gives you a "sense node" skill similar to the tinkered rod (but 100% restricted to harvest nodes). The second skill H2 could decrease the harvesting time (stacking with the bonus of the tools. More resources with each pull you could get from the 3rd skill H3. And H4 increases your chance to harvest a rare.An other line could be for the crafting skills. The 1st skill S1 increases the success chance. S2 could reduce the penalties of the crafting skills while S3 increases the bonuses. More rare events we could get with S4.But what other lines could be offered? Lines affecting crafted items... I doubt it will work in EQ2 (SOE would have to create an entry in it's item database for each variation of the crafted item used). More consumable items per craft? Sounds good but not all crafter classes have consumable items that could benefit from higher output. It's easy to get 120 arrows instead of 100 or 5 drinks instead of 4 or 7 poison instead of 5. But totems or the new short time adornments? You can't get 1.2 adornments... May be a line around the resources used while crafting (having a chance getting some / more resources back or not to use the primary component). Beside these lines I don't know what else would fit.The next problem is how would we earn the points to place in this tree? Not from adventuring for sure. The AA-XP for the craftr tree should be different from the adventure one.How do we can get the AA XP in the adventure tree? From quests... hm, by far not enough crafter quests exists. Killing nameds... we don't kill nameds while crafting. Area / item discovery... not fitting for crafting AA tree too. Converting adventure XP into AA XP when at max level... this could work for crafters too (of course converting crafter XP into AA).One option could be to skip crafter-AA-XP and jump straight to crafter AA points. You could get 1 point at the end of each tier (every level x0). At level 80 you would have 8 points. May be you have to "prove" yourself to a master crafter (NPC) by doing a quest to get this AA point. You could get 1 (or more) point(s) for doing quest series in different crafter centers all around Norrath. Or do special writs for tokes and you can get a crafter AA point for every 25 tokes.That are my 1.2cent <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Donilla

04-03-2008, 12:45 PM

Not that I think this will happen either, but the last post would seem to have the idea that would work. One ladder, for crafter, not bty profession. The line you choose to go down would depend on which profession you chose adn how youi craft. Make potions? Theres an increase yeild line. Do nothing but make adepts? Increase your chance at rares line. Award AA xp for the first pristine, for each level, for the journey and trade quests. Maybe for the halflings food quest (first time only). I'd think 20 AA max would be all you'd have to shoot for. You couldn't increase yield AND increase chances at rares.

Avanya

04-03-2008, 11:44 PM

<cite>Besual wrote:</cite><blockquote>I doubt we will see more then one crafter AA tree (if we will see one at all).Let us assume we could get one. What lines could it have?One line could be for harvesting. Skill H1 gives you a "sense node" skill similar to the tinkered rod (but 100% restricted to harvest nodes). The second skill H2 could decrease the harvesting time (stacking with the bonus of the tools. More resources with each pull you could get from the 3rd skill H3. And H4 increases your chance to harvest a rare.An other line could be for the crafting skills. The 1st skill S1 increases the success chance. S2 could reduce the penalties of the crafting skills while S3 increases the bonuses. More rare events we could get with S4.But what other lines could be offered? Lines affecting crafted items... I doubt it will work in EQ2 (SOE would have to create an entry in it's item database for each variation of the crafted item used). More consumable items per craft? Sounds good but not all crafter classes have consumable items that could benefit from higher output. It's easy to get 120 arrows instead of 100 or 5 drinks instead of 4 or 7 poison instead of 5. But totems or the new short time adornments? You can't get 1.2 adornments... May be a line around the resources used while crafting (having a chance getting some / more resources back or not to use the primary component). Beside these lines I don't know what else would fit.The next problem is how would we earn the points to place in this tree? Not from adventuring for sure. The AA-XP for the craftr tree should be different from the adventure one.How do we can get the AA XP in the adventure tree? From quests... hm, by far not enough crafter quests exists. Killing nameds... we don't kill nameds while crafting. Area / item discovery... not fitting for crafting AA tree too. Converting adventure XP into AA XP when at max level... this could work for crafters too (of course converting crafter XP into AA).One option could be to skip crafter-AA-XP and jump straight to crafter AA points. You could get 1 point at the end of each tier (every level x0). At level 80 you would have 8 points. May be you have to "prove" yourself to a master crafter (NPC) by doing a quest to get this AA point. You could get 1 (or more) point(s) for doing quest series in different crafter centers all around Norrath. Or do special writs for tokes and you can get a crafter AA point for every 25 tokes.That are my 1.2cent <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>These are some neat ideas. There could be lines that you could go down for each class, some of them receiving at the last of the line, more items per combine. This would be good for provs, ww, etc.. Classes with no consumables would get a different benefit appropiate for their class. As for the very last one (like in the adv AA lines) maybe you could be awarded a new recipe for your class.I think it could be fun, especially if they added some more crafter quests for the exp.

Lasai

04-04-2008, 02:00 AM

I am dumbfounded by what people ask for.Adventuring is complex, and there are many many attributes, skills, spells, etc that can be enhanced by Achievements. In turn, as the player base becomes more heavy with AA points, mobs can be adjusted so that the player isn't overly powerful, much as the mobs were adjusted upwards in difficulty for Kunark as a whole.Crafting is not complex, those days are gone. A crafter has very little to enhance by way of Achievements.. and face it, its not psuedo-adventuring, as much as so many seem to want it to be. Crafting in this game is too bloody simple to enhance. You would have to create something TO ENHANCE, because, right now, there isn't much.SWG has Achievements for Crafters. They aren't allowed to be anything else. Thier AAs go for experimentation, assembly, vendor and factory maintenence, self defense skills, harvester efficiency, subcomponent specialization and a myriad of things that DONT EXIST HERE.There is no way to implement APs without rewarding crafters APs for nothing more than leveling. APs for something as trivial as first combine, oh FFS give me a break. How about fixing the mess Domino inherited first. How about working on the current system so that crafters can CRAFT, and not churn out massive amounts of useless writ and vendor fodder to progress?How about standardizing itemization throughout the tiers?How about adjusting ore/loam ratios to reflect actual use?The current system is far from finished. Crafting needs to be polished and the many holes fixed. This system needs to be working throughout, and at all tiers, before anything more is added.