Help with choosing a CPU

[DragonMaster2385]

I'm sure that there are a million threads asking which CPU to use, but I haven't seen anything that addresses this problem.  I am building a new computer and I am deciding between a quad core and a duel core.  The duel core has a faster op frequency, but the quad core obviously has two more cores.  I know that EQ2 is super processor intensive and doesn't use all cores to its potential, but I also play new games coming out that will be designed for multi threading.  My question is: What are you thoughts on which I should buy?  CPUs I am looking at:<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103228" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819103228</a><a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103244" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819103244</a>Thanks for any help.

[Kaliguwra]

Dual-Core ftw. Higher clock speed, higher FSB without spending +800 more dollars for the extreme version that will be equal to a Dualcore CPU. But I wouldnt know about AMD, I stopped using them years ago. I've had alot of good results with Intel. It just seems that AMD is about .7 Ghz behind. I'd throw together a decent 680i mobo with 1066mhz ram, dual core cpu @ 3.0ghz, with some decent cooling and you got a win. Throw a simple 8800gt or the latest ATI on there and it'll be killer.

[Rench]

<p>Personally, I went higher clocked dual core over quad. I went with intel tho, got the e6850 which is stock 3.0 overclocks to 3.6 easily on auto voltage and air cooling.  The last cpl points sold me as I was doin research, I was/still am an overclockin noob and knew I could get the 3.6 without having to mess with voltages and whatnot trying to make it stable (I did play around with makin it faster but thats another story heheh).  And coming from the old athlon single core 2800+ (clocked at like 2.0 or 2.2 I think) its sick.</p>

[DragonMaster2385]

I think I will look into Intel, as it seems a lot of people prefer that.  I didn't want to get the 8800 or anything in the 8*** series since there are a lot of posts about problems with that video card.  I was looking at :<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814241070" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814241070</a>It has two GPUs built into one card, so it looks pretty nice.

[DragonMaster2385]

alright, here is my setup: <a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811124115" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16811124115</a><a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136012" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16822136012</a><a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814241070" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814241070</a><a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16820231166</a><a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127033" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16813127033</a><a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115028" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819115028</a>The only thing I am missing at this point is a PSU.  Any thoughts on voltage?  Other opinions on my current setup?

[Kaliguwra]

I'd run a PSU of atleast 600+ I run an 850w for SLI for two 8800 GT's and it works fine. It's gonna be a tight fit with a mid-tower case, so I'd suggest getting an exhaust/intake fan to go with it. Apparently the case doesn't come with those fans. Also, a good heatsink/fan for the CPU, I suggest a Zalman 9700, I have the 9500 and it's freakin' sweet.

[Tokam]

<cite>Diknak@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>alright, here is my setup: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811124115" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16811124115</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136012" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16822136012</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814241070" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814241070</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16820231166</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127033" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16813127033</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115028" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819115028</a></blockquote><p>Using my leet price converter mental arithmetic (my IQ < 60 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) I came up with some alternatives. Biggest of all being, dont get that cpu.</p><p><a href="http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-191-IN" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">new cpu </a>(if you can find it around 270$ in the US) - do some google searches for decent heatsinks (I like noctua nh-u12p) and you should overclock higher than the 6750, will have more cache, will consume less power, and will run quieter. Win!</p><p><a href="http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/04/02/asus_p5k_pro/1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">other motherboard for you to consider</a> (links to a couple more in that article too) Personally anything supporting DDR2 and 1333 cpu. Ive always had good stuff from asus personally.</p><p>That hard drive, um, £85? Id get something <a href="http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=708681" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">like this </a>and save a bit of dosh, and have loads more storage space too! The samsung drives I use are nice and quiet too, always good when you zone.</p><p>For the PSU Im a firm believer that you can never spend too much money (within reason) so I would go for <a href="http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=446787" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this</a> or <a href="http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=631246" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this</a>.</p><p>Hope this helps some.</p>

[DragonMaster2385]

Thanks for the input.  I have decided to go with this CPU instead:<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819115037</a>This GPU:<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121228" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814121228</a>The PSUs linked above only have 650 or 700w to them and that seems a little low for a gaming rig.  I plan on overclocking my GPU and eventually get a second one for crossfire.  I have been looking at this PSU:<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817814006" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16817814006</a>I'm don't know if 800w is even enough.

[Trilarian-2]

One thing I thought worth mentioning about the quad core(assuming 2.4GHz Q6600 model as it is cheaper than extreme version), is it overclocks very easily to 3.0GHz without even needing to upgrade your cooling.  If you upgrade your cooling (about $60 for a high end air system), you can reach 3.6GHz.  If you really want to push the limits, I've seen many people reach a stable 4.0GHz with water cooling.  Maybe someone else can comment on how well the dual cores OC.My point being, is 3.0GHz is a very modest OC that doesn't put your CPU in harms way and so can match the dual cores with just a few changes in the BIOS.  You also have the added advantage of 4 cores for other programs(don't think you'll ever see EQ2 go threaded - prob EQ3 :p ).EDIT => Just saw your question on a PSU.  Really, high wattage numbers are not everything.  First find a decent brand name instead of just picking the best price.  Then consider 500W your min if you plan on using two video cards.  And lastly, find one that has the proper connections natively.  What I mean by that is does it have two of the special video card plugs, or do you have to adapter two traditional plugs together(former obviously better).  Check your motherboard for the second power plug, does it have a 4 or 8 prong connector?  Whichever you have, get a PSU that matches that so you are not plugging a 4 into the compatable slot on the 8 prong plug.

[Kaliguwra]

You can reach 3.6ghz, but I wouldn't recommend it. You would have to spend more money on a case with superb air flow, because of the vast amounts of heat you will end up building up overtime. I run a Q6600 + Zalman 9500 with two exhaust fans behind it and I get some interesting temps when I OC, got it to 3.2ghz and stopped, because I didnt feel like pushing the temperatures over 75C. I'd honestly just go with a dualcore that is rated at 3.0ghz base and use that, it'll perform better for EQ2 then that quad would. Currently I'm purchasing a water cooling setup with various parts, Dangerden, EK VGA wb, etc... it's gonna cost an arm and a leg, but I want to push the CPU to 3.6ghz stable with a good solid temp.

[yzyh]

<p>EQ2 si the worst designed game. They don,t support multipe core and can,t use half of the utility a nvidia 8800 have.</p><p>So jump to another game.</p>

[Rench]

<cite>yzyh wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EQ2 si the worst designed game. They don,t support multipe core and can,t use half of the utility a nvidia 8800 have.</p><p>So jump to another game.</p></blockquote>Yet here you are trolling in unrelated posts.... take your own advice and leave our forums alone too.  I don't wanna stick up for eq2's engine as it does have problems, but that is unrelated to this post.

[DragonMaster2385]

<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811124115" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16811124115</a> is the case that I have selected because so many people have said that it has an awesome air flow.  Thanks for the help <span class="name"><b>yzyh</b>, you have contributed a lot to this post.  I am excited about building this machine and I appreciate all of your input.</span>

[jagermonsta]

For optimal EQ2 performance find yourself a 8 Ghz CPU. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Tyndaleon]

<cite>Trilarian-2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>One thing I thought worth mentioning about the quad core(assuming 2.4GHz Q6600 model as it is cheaper than extreme version), is it overclocks very easily to 3.0GHz without even needing to upgrade your cooling. </blockquote>That may be true, but the new Wolfdale Core 2 Duo's (the E8000 series processors) are by far the easiest to overclock of anything out there since they hit the market.  I have an E8400 that I initially could overclock from 3 to 3.6 GHZ (w/400MHz FSB) and run stably even on the stock HSF from Intel (though I wouldn't recommend it longterm as it did become hot enough sometimes to become worrisome even though it still ran without a hitch).  Added in an Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro and now idling I sit in the 55-58 range and at full load I rarely crack above 70c (its threshold is 105 fyi).

[Trilarian-2]

Seems the duo can OC to 3.6GHz at about the same ease as the quad hits the 3.0-3.2GHz range (as far as air cooled temps go), so it really just comes down to what are you going to use your PC for outside of EQ2.  You won't see a huge increase in performance - the main reason I opted for lower temps and sit around the 3.0-3.2GHz range.If you are not planning that much outside of EQ2 then the duo can give you that little extra in game.  If you use your pc a lot outside of EQ2, then I find the quad core offers better response for multi-tasking.  For me, it was nice to have a few intensive processes running (video encode/decode, virus scan, etc.) and still get the response of having nothing running.

[jagermonsta]

Hrmm... I'm on air and my quad is set to 3.6 Ghz and it's known to be one of the hottest running CPUs on the market too. I idle around 47-50c and load around 66-70c. (Ambient room temp of 65f-70f)(CPU is lapped as well as the heat sink)Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme<span class="big_title"> </span><span class="big_title">Scythe </span><span class="big_title">S-FLEX S-FDB 120mm (1600 RPM, </span>63.7CFM)Antec P182 with added two front case 120mm S-FLEX fans to draw in new air and replaced stock case with 120mm S-FLEX fans on top, back, bottom to push old air out.Keep in mind I also have two over clocked 8800 GTX cards in the machine. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Trilarian-2]

Sounds about right for what I got OC'ing to 3.6GHz.  However, if I lower to 3.0-3.2GHz, I never peak over 60c which is my ideal marker.  70c isn't an instant kill, but it is shortening the life of your cpu.

[jagermonsta]

Not really. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />These aren't CPUs from 1995 remember... it's just been archived knowledge that a temp of 70c is going to damage your CPU over time which is no longer true for the most part with today's technology. Remember, this is load times not, idle. Idle temp of 70c has more of a chance to damage your CPU.

[Trilarian-2]

<a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/221745-29-core-quad-temperature-guide" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Here</a> is a good explanation on CPU temps.You really need to use the numbering system at the bottom of the post to get a good idea of if you are in the safe zone or not, instead of just the core temp.  However, for a quick reference this is what they listed for Core 2 Quad.<span class="u"><b>Scale 3: Quad</b></span> <b>QX6x50</b>: <b><span style="color: #0000ff;">Tcase</span></b> Max <b>65</b>c, Stepping <b>G0</b>, TDP 130w <b>QX6800</b>: <b><span style="color: #0000ff;">Tcase</span></b> Max <b>65</b>c, Stepping <b>G0</b>, TDP 130w <b>QX6700</b>: <b><span style="color: #0000ff;">Tcase</span></b> Max <b>65</b>c, Stepping <b>B3</b>, TDP 130w <b>QX9650</b>: <b><span style="color: #0000ff;">Tcase</span></b> Max <b>64</b>c, Stepping <b>C0</b>, TDP 130w <b>QX9775</b>: <b><span style="color: #0000ff;">Tcase</span></b> Max <b>63</b>c, Stepping <b>C0</b>, TDP 150w  <span class="u"><b><span style="color: #0000ff;">-Tcase</span></b>/<b><span style="color: #0000ff;">Tjunction-</span></b></span> <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">--65--/--70--70--70--70-- Hot</span></b> <b><span style="color: #ffb800;">--60--/--65--65--65--65-- Warm</span></b> <b><span style="color: #00d42a;">--55--/--60--60--60--60-- Safe</span></b> <b><span style="color: #0000ff;">--25--/--30--30--30--30-- Cool</span></b>

[jagermonsta]

It's really not that hot... 70c load is fine. CPU will last many years. They're tougher then you think...

[Miladi]

It also depends highly upon the CPU you're using. My Athlon XP+ runs at about 55-65C when running the game, which is really hot for this CPU. Others can run at much higher and/or lower temps. You can't just go by a temperature chart unless the chart is specific to one model of CPU. There are general guidelines, but they don't mean much in the real world.

[Tyndaleon]

<cite>Trilarian-2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>  70c isn't an instant kill, but it is shortening the life of your cpu.</blockquote>Not in the case of the Wolfdale procs, which was a huge part of my point above.

[bluefish]

<cite>Kaliguwra@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can reach 3.6ghz, but I wouldn't recommend it. You would have to spend more money on a case with superb air flow, because of the vast amounts of heat you will end up building up overtime. I run a Q6600 + Zalman 9500 with two exhaust fans behind it and I get some interesting temps when I OC, got it to 3.2ghz and stopped, because I didnt feel like pushing the temperatures over 75C. I'd honestly just go with a dualcore that is rated at 3.0ghz base and use that, it'll perform better for EQ2 then that quad would. Currently I'm purchasing a water cooling setup with various parts, Dangerden, EK VGA wb, etc... it's gonna cost an arm and a leg, but I want to push the CPU to 3.6ghz stable with a good solid temp. </blockquote>didnt cost me an arm and a leg .. e6600 @ 3.6 ghz rock stable playing eq2 using antec 900 case ( all fans on low setting) and a scythe infinity cooler with stock fan .. temps never go above 62 deg C

[Trilarian-2]

<cite>Miladian wrote:</cite><blockquote>It also depends highly upon the CPU you're using. My Athlon XP+ runs at about 55-65C when running the game, which is really hot for this CPU. Others can run at much higher and/or lower temps. You can't just go by a temperature chart unless the chart is specific to one model of CPU. There are general guidelines, but they don't mean much in the real world.</blockquote>I was copying and pasting the chart specific for that cpu(see the QX tags).  I really don't feel like arguing a moot point though.  I'm happy with mine at 3.2GHz with the temps I have.  You guys are happy where you are - so all is good.  The released max temps are most likely set conservatively knowing that people will try and push the envelope.In my particular case, I did not see any noticable gain from 3.2 to 3.6 within EQ2(if not stuttering with 8800 probs I'm capped at 60 fps on vsync regardless) so opted to keep my temps within released spec for longevity.

[Galeden]

<cite>Diknak@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think I will look into Intel, as it seems a lot of people prefer that.  I didn't want to get the 8800 or anything in the 8*** series since there are a lot of posts about problems with that video card.  I was looking at :<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814241070" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814241070</a>It has two GPUs built into one card, so it looks pretty nice.</blockquote>That is the card I got for my new computer (except mine is from Sapphire).  Except for running hot in a couple of games (not EQ2, EQ2 doesn't raise the temperature much even on full, except on the character select for some reason).  I really like it, and after reading the Nvidia reviews on their HD 1g, it is a much better deal, and will last longer do to using the new directx and shader systems.  Only 2 games btw that ran hot, and I mean into 75C were Lord of the rings online and Supreme Commander.

[LoneGreyWolf20]

Here is the rig I just bought and built last month.Case<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021&Tpk=Antec%2b900" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...Tpk=Antec%2b900</a>PSU<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341001" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16817341001</a>Motherboard<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188013" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16813188013</a> (Newegg says it's a deactivated item now)CPU<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115030" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819115030</a>Ram<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16820231122</a>GPU<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127306" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814127306</a>The motherboard if you can find it is a very good motherboard. I would suggest going to EVGA's forums as you can extend it's life by doing simple mods to it that will not void it's warranty with EVGA. I have the CPU overclocked to 3.2 ghz right now on stock cooling. Under load it only goes up into the 40 degree Celsius range. It's also extremely stable. The graphics card isn't that great, but with everything else that I bought, it's what I could afford at the time. I will be getting an 8800GT in a few months.The ram is Overclocked to 900mhz. Basically it's linked and synced with the processor.It's a little hot in here right now (probably above 75 F) but my temps are currently:motherboard - 31 degrees CelsiusCPU - 28 degrees CelsiusCPU 1 - 31 degrees CelsiusCPU 2 - 31 degrees CelsiusMCP (Northbridge) 46 degrees CelsiusGPU - 41 degrees CelsiusEvrything (except the video card) that had thermal paste was cleaned and given AS Ceramique or AS5. I think part of my awesome system temps has to do with the case as well.

[DragonMaster2385]

I have played this game since launch and I have never been in a group that told me that I needed to join a vent/ts server.  There was one group that I was in that it was offered and I more than happily joined, but the one guy that didn't join wasn't booted or even harassed.  As far as raids go, I can understand why a raid force would require vent or ts, as it takes a hell of a lot more strategy to take down named mobs than it does heroic ones.  Either way, if a raid force is going to require ts/vent, then adding this feature won't change anything, as it would just make picking up outsiders even easier since a third party program wouldn't have to be configured.