Are the Nayad and the Shadowed Men linked?

[goldfeesh641]

I've been piddling around in the Fallen Dynasty stuff (finally) and the paperwork I am gathering for some of the quests really seems to me like the Nayad are either ancestors of the shadowed men, or prime candidates for some relation.  It mainly occurred to me whenever I read in one of thenotes.  Primarily the folded letter that reads:"I chose not to disturb you during your delicate incantations so I have quickly penned this note for you.  Ralca, we have done it!  We have deciphered the means by which we can open rifts within the manatheric ether!  These holes have allowed us to make limited connections to nether realms within the void.  It is now being discussed where we should focus this new knowledge in order to make contact with other beings.  I told the others that you have been in contact with a peaceful people whom you call the Nizari for some time now.  We believe that your friends, the Nizari, should be the first extra-dimensional people thatwe attempt to reach by way of these portals.  This is very good news for Tanaan.  Our city will have something positive to discuss for a change, instead of the dreadful demise of Vondrax and his group...I shall speak to you at length once you arise from your incantations.Gloronus"Now, it may just be that I haven't progressed far enough.  But this definitely seems VERY closely tied to the void.  Perhaps even Vondrax could be tied in somehow?  Is he in any of the Remembrances?

[Cusashorn]

<p>As far as in-game evidence goes, there is no relation between the two.... At least, nothing that is revealed in Fallen Dynasty. Note: They said "These holes have.......... within the void."</p><p>Not "Within the Void."</p><p>They mention void as just being an empty unknown space, not The Void, as in the realm of nothingness.</p>

[Ama]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As far as in-game evidence goes, there is no relation between the two.... At least, nothing that is revealed in Fallen Dynasty. Note: They said "These holes have.......... within the void."</p><p>Not "Within the Void."</p><p>They mention void as just being an empty unknown space, not The Void, as in the realm of nothingness.</p></blockquote><p>I don't know about that Cusashorn the way it sounds they tapped into "one portion" of a dimensional pocket within Norrath.  For all we know there could be hundreds if not thousands of these tiny dimensional pockets.  </p><p>Here's the interesting bit: "It is now being discussed where we should focus this new knowledge in order to make contact with <b>other beings</b>.  I told the others that you have been in contact with a peaceful people whom you call <b>the Nizari</b> for some time now.  We believe that your friends, the Nizari, <b>should be the first extra-dimensional people</b> that we attempt to reach by way of <b>these portals</b>. "</p><p>Course my question now is how do dimensions work within Norrath.  Is it like (plane here)void(plane here)? </p><p>Perhaps the Shadowedman race was banished to a dimensional pocket within Norrath that was devoid of life.  However over time the Shadowedman race learned arcane magic allowing them to escape.  </p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>There are the physical differences to consider as well.</p><p>The Nizari are nagas (real nagas from the mythology that I've always been used to, not those cheap hindu-based knockoffs in DoF), completely female in appearance, vibrant and colorful in appearance, and have arn't entirely focused with universal destruction. They are malevolent, and have enslaved the Tanaanites, but have otherwise not shown any relation to how the shadowmen act. We don't see any evidence of the evil eyes, Lamia, Nightblood, or Void Beasts anywhere in Nizara.</p><p>I really think they arn't related. I still believe there are voids, just simple pockets of space seperating different dimensions and realms, and then there's The Void, which is where the shadowmen came from.</p>

[Gukkor2]

Dare I mention the resemblance between the Nizari and the Ikaav...?

[goldfeesh641]

One thing to point out is that Nizara, the City of the Nayad, has the EXACT same layout as the Forsaken City (Tanaan).  This to me points to it being a parallel dimension.For some reason I feel like the chance of making a sweet layout of a city to group up against and attack wouldn't be bypassed by SOE unless there is some importance that it is the same as Tanaan...

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dare I mention the resemblance between the Nizari and the Ikaav...?</blockquote><p>As I said, they are Nagas, a monster who's upper half looks like a woman, and who's lower half is entirely a snake.</p><p>Besides,<a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=18862" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> the Ikaav have 2 other snake-like tendrils protruding from thier lower regions</a>. Doesn't exactly fit the description, but maybe they decided to just give it that more alien-like appearance to go with the theme.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>goldfeesh641 wrote:</cite><blockquote>One thing to point out is that Nizara, the City of the Nayad, has the EXACT same layout as the Forsaken City (Tanaan).  This to me points to it being a parallel dimension.For some reason I feel like the chance of making a sweet layout of a city to group up against and attack wouldn't be bypassed by SOE unless there is some importance that it is the same as Tanaan...</blockquote>If I remember correctly, there is an explanation given during the Fallen Dynasty questline that explains why that is. The Parallel universe theory holds some water.

[Ama]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>There are the physical differences to consider as well.</p><p>The Nizari are nagas (real nagas from the mythology that I've always been used to, not those cheap hindu-based knockoffs in DoF), completely female in appearance, vibrant and colorful in appearance, and have arn't entirely focused with universal destruction. They are malevolent, and have enslaved the Tanaanites, but have otherwise not shown any relation to how the shadowmen act. We don't see any evidence of the evil eyes, Lamia, Nightblood, or Void Beasts anywhere in Nizara.</p><p>I really think they arn't related. I still believe there are voids, just simple pockets of space seperating different dimensions and realms, and then there's The Void, which is where the shadowmen came from.</p></blockquote><p>Well i'm not saying they are "related" to the shadowed me, but I do believe they hail from a dimensional pocket. </p><p>Again what intrigues me is this scentence "We believe that your friends, the Nizari, <b>should be the first extra-dimensional people</b> that we attempt to reach by way of <b>these portals</b>. "</p><p>The way it is said gives me the impression there are more than 1 race of beings per dimension.  However going into greater depth perhaps there are Dimensional beings then there are Extra-Dimensional beings. </p><p>Perhaps what we have is the diety planes then something inbetween those planes then Norrath itself.  So what we have is (dimension)void/extra-dimensionalplane(dimension).  Now it is plausible that there are parallel planes to that of our own that are completely seperate from the 1st theory. </p><p>(Dimension)void(dimension.A)||(Dimension.B)</p><p>So in essence the Nizari live in Dimension.B while the Forsaken City lives in dimension.A .  Sadly there are multiple possibilities to be considered and it would be hard to confirm which one is the more likely answer.  </p>

[Gukkor2]

<p>It seems more likely to me that each alternate dimension (if that is indeed the truth of this matter) is an entire cosmology of its own, with its own material world, its own planes, and its own gods, or perhaps just alternate versions of the gods we're familiar with (Solusek Ro with a goatee...?).  </p><p>A plane, then, would be more like a "layer" within a dimension, the material plane being one of those layers.  The Void, on the other hand, wouldn't be tied to any particular dimension at all, but would be the emptiness outside of and/or inbetween the dimensions.</p>

[AllaK_Bludwyng]

Folks, I need to point out that extra-dimensional does not mean "in an extra dimension other that the normal dimensions we usually talk about"It means "outside of OUR dimension", just as extra-terrestrial means "anything not from Earth".Beyond that, it is totally consistent with traditional RPG cosmology that the Nizari could be from a parallel dimension, tangent to Tanaan so that it has the same layout and other similarities, but the farther you get from that point the greater the differences become. Extra-dimensional physics is NOT limited to just fourth-dimensional or fifth-dimensional constructs. You can literally have a dimension that is at right angles to all the others... or parallel to all.

[ZexisStryfe]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>The Nizari are nagas (real nagas from the mythology that I've always been used to, not those cheap hindu-based knockoffs in DoF), completely female in appearance, vibrant and colorful in appearance, and have arn't entirely focused with universal destruction. </p></blockquote><p>The nagas you speak of are actually the hindu versions. The snake with a human head version of the naga is actually cambodian . There is actually also a buddhist version of the naga, which is simply a seven hearded serpent (the cambodian naga's also often have 7 heads).</p><p>It funny, because in fantasy games (D&D, final fantasy games, etc.), the cambodian version is almost always referred to as the naga (or nagha) where as the half woman-half snake version is usually refered to as a gorgon or a lamia, further confusing things in EQ2 because the creatures called lamias in EQ2 are traditionally called succubi. :sigh: oh well...</p><p>On topic, I believe that the Nayads are simply extra-dimensional (likely parallel-dimensional) versions of the Tanaans. Just because they are extra-dimensional doesn't mean they are connected to Shadowedmen and the like. I believe the reference to "the void", not being capitalized, is synonomous with how we refer to space, akin to "the great unknown".</p>

[Gukkor2]

<cite>Vulkoor@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>The Nizari are nagas (real nagas from the mythology that I've always been used to, not those cheap hindu-based knockoffs in DoF), completely female in appearance, vibrant and colorful in appearance, and have arn't entirely focused with universal destruction. </p></blockquote><p>The nagas you speak of are actually the hindu versions. The snake with a human head version of the naga is actually cambodian . There is actually also a buddhist version of the naga, which is simply a seven hearded serpent (the cambodian naga's also often have 7 heads).</p><p>It funny, because in fantasy games (D&D, final fantasy games, etc.), the cambodian version is almost always referred to as the naga (or nagha) where as the half woman-half snake version is usually refered to as a gorgon or a lamia, further confusing things in EQ2 because the creatures called lamias in EQ2 are traditionally called succubi. :sigh: oh well...</p><p>On topic, I believe that the Nayads are simply extra-dimensional (likely parallel-dimensional) versions of the Tanaans. Just because they are extra-dimensional doesn't mean they are connected to Shadowedmen and the like. I believe the reference to "the void", not being capitalized, is synonomous with how we refer to space, akin to "the great unknown".</p></blockquote>The lamias were originally referred to as succubi on the official website and a few other places, but I guess the devs decided that was too suggestive, given what a succubus actually does.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vulkoor@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>The Nizari are nagas (real nagas from the mythology that I've always been used to, not those cheap hindu-based knockoffs in DoF), completely female in appearance, vibrant and colorful in appearance, and have arn't entirely focused with universal destruction. </p></blockquote><p>The nagas you speak of are actually the hindu versions. The snake with a human head version of the naga is actually cambodian . There is actually also a buddhist version of the naga, which is simply a seven hearded serpent (the cambodian naga's also often have 7 heads).</p><p>It funny, because in fantasy games (D&D, final fantasy games, etc.), the cambodian version is almost always referred to as the naga (or nagha) where as the half woman-half snake version is usually refered to as a gorgon or a lamia, further confusing things in EQ2 because the creatures called lamias in EQ2 are traditionally called succubi. :sigh: oh well...</p><p>On topic, I believe that the Nayads are simply extra-dimensional (likely parallel-dimensional) versions of the Tanaans. Just because they are extra-dimensional doesn't mean they are connected to Shadowedmen and the like. I believe the reference to "the void", not being capitalized, is synonomous with how we refer to space, akin to "the great unknown".</p></blockquote>The lamias were originally referred to as succubi on the official website and a few other places, but I guess the devs decided that was too suggestive, given what a succubus actually does.</blockquote><p>Hindu? Cambodian? Blah. Whatever. I was told the Half-snake Half-woman version was Hindu. Regardless, it's the version I always see in Japanese RPGs and such.</p><p>The Succubus name change is understandable, but from what I understand, Lamias do sort of the same thing. They hunt out males in particular, whether for thier soul or just as a snack.</p>

[Trepan]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As far as in-game evidence goes, there is no relation between the two.... At least, nothing that is revealed in Fallen Dynasty. Note: They said "These holes have.......... within the void."</p><p>Not "Within the Void."</p><p>They mention void as just being an empty unknown space, not The Void, as in the realm of nothingness.</p></blockquote>Like a hamster crawling through a habitrail from one tank to another.   Did they leave their first tank?  Yes.  Were they in the living room?  No, but they passed through it via habitrail to get to the next tank.   TECHNICALLY, both tanks are in the living room, therefore the hamster and the habitrail tunnel are too... but "in the living room" connotes a freedom to roam around in it; whereas the hamster's reality has them bound into a space described by the habitrail's dimensions.Thus are our worlds habitrails and our Void, the 'space' in which they exist.