Return of the Domini

[Maergoth]

All around Kunark, several iksar Domini have returned.. many of which I had thought would never be seen again..Dominus Rile - Venril's son, Wielder of Greenmist and greatest of the EmperorsDominus Atrebe - First-hatched son of Rile, Creator of the Sarnak and SokokarsDominus Ganak - The Darslayer... Slayer of Jaled-dar but killed in the process. Dominus Chottal - Last of the Iksar Emperors.. Slain at the Sathirian Palace in Sebilis by the claws of dragonkindThoughts? How? Why?

[Cusashorn]

<p>There's no explanation for why they returned. It wasn't even explained in Beta. However, Venril Sathir is a necromancer after all. It's very possible he returned thier spirits to corporeal form to haunt the lands (or be his undead slaves, or both).</p><p>They do have purple flames emanating from thier eyes, so the undead theory probably holds some water.</p>

[Maergoth]

As dire of a time as it seems to be.. I don't know if Venril would stoop to reviving his offspring for assistance.. doesn't seem to uphold his pride.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>As dire of a time as it seems to be.. I don't know if Venril would stoop to reviving his offspring for assistance.. doesn't seem to uphold his pride.</blockquote>Oh but he now controls the very child, among others, who killed him in the first place. What's more degrading than being forced to come back to life and having no control over your own actions as you work for the person you sought to destroy in life?

[Lodrelhai]

I agree with Cusa.  There's little better for a victory than to completely dominate your enemy, controlling them entirely and having them know they can't do anything about it.  Just think, they owe their very existence to their enemy.If I were them, I think I'd wish I was still rotting in my grave.

[teddyboy4]

<cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree with Cusa.  There's little better for a victory than to completely dominate your enemy, controlling them entirely and having them know they can't do anything about it.  Just think, they owe their very existence to their enemy.If I were them, I think I'd wish I was still rotting in my grave.</blockquote>I concur.Venril has always been known as a very shred lizard and him bringing his offspring back to serve him is really quite ingenious. I mean, who better to have serving under you, commanding huge chunks of your empire then former emperors who were known as great leaders, warriors, mages etc. I can definitely see his line of thought....He was probably in the process of rebuilding the empire and was looking for lizards he could trust, were strong in their own right, and were competent leaders. When he couldn't find anyone to meet his standards the thought struck him...."Why am I spending all this time searching for lizards I can trust when I have all of former emperors sitting there dead, doing nothing?"My only question is this. Do you think Rile has a hard time looking at Venril considering Venril is inhabiting Rile's former body??? lol

[Slask]

<p>I don't t hink Venril has <i>complete</i> control over them: no point in using them for their leadership skills if they don't have some free will.  This and the fact that at least Rile is a lich is confirmed when you read the completed page collection 'Orthiss and Kirkata', where Venril had to trick Orthiss into getting Rile's phylithery so he would have a means of keeping him from betraying him.</p><p>As far as what Rile thinks whenever he sees Venril in his body...I think he's burning with resentment and wants nothing more then to kill his father again.  Which is what I hinted at in my story 'Shadows of the Past'.</p>

[Sylaz]

Yeah, I don't really think Venril would have complete control over them, as there's nothing to suggest that Venril isn't proud of his offspring and the Sathir family as a whole.The only real problem he has is that Rile betrayed him once, and as was posted just before this, he's taking steps to ensure that that won't happen again.If the stories are true, Rile wasn't too happy with the way his father ruled, but once emperor, he didn't really change things much. Atrebe on the other hand seemed to really enjoy what his grandfather did, delving deep into dark magic himself. Ganak seemed more along the lines of this as well, and I don't really know a lot about Chottal. (I don't really think there's a lot to know)Not to mention, apart from the Swifttails I don't think many Iksar wouldn't jump at the chance to live forever, no matter how it had to occur. I personally would find myself fully in the service of Venril, given that he's one of the greatest leaders Norrath has ever seen, and family, to boot.That said, Venril's no idiot, and I'm sure that by having a hand in their resurrection he has ensured that should they try to usurp his power, they will be swiftly dealt with.

[teddyboy4]

<cite>Sylaz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah, I don't really think Venril would have complete control over them, as there's nothing to suggest that Venril isn't proud of his offspring and the Sathir family as a whole.The only real problem he has is that Rile betrayed him once, and as was posted just before this, he's taking steps to ensure that that won't happen again.If the stories are true, Rile wasn't too happy with the way his father ruled, but once emperor, he didn't really change things much. Atrebe on the other hand seemed to really enjoy what his grandfather did, delving deep into dark magic himself. Ganak seemed more along the lines of this as well, and I don't really know a lot about Chottal. (I don't really think there's a lot to know)Not to mention, apart from the Swifttails I don't think many Iksar wouldn't jump at the chance to live forever, no matter how it had to occur. I personally would find myself fully in the service of Venril, given that he's one of the greatest leaders Norrath has ever seen, and family, to boot.That said, Venril's no idiot, and I'm sure that by having a hand in their resurrection he has ensured that should they try to usurp his power, they will be swiftly dealt with.</blockquote>Yeah, I too doubt Venril has complete control of the resurrected Domini, but enough to keep them well in line. Although that brings up a question. I haven't personally seen any evidence as to exactly how Venril accomplished raising the rest of his sons' sons from the grave, but I would imagine that he brought them all back as Liches. If they were brought back through Necromancy I'd think that they would have been nothing more then mindless zombies, certainly not capable of leading large chunks of a flourishing empire. If they are all Liches then simply keeping their phylacteries should be enough to keep them from challenging his rule.Rile was really the only one to try betraying their father and usurp control of the empire, and the only reason he did it was b/c he wanted to be emperor and not live under his fathers control forever. Which, ironically, is exactly what ended up happening anyway. All the others became emperor through the natural deaths of their fathers so none of them had the need to do what Rile did, but you have to wonder if they all would have done the same if faces with a similar situation. I mean, they were all great, powerful, and proud rulers of a large empire, how do you think they feel about being brought back to serve?  It'd be interesting to find out.I don't know how true it is that all Iksar would jump at the opportunity of eternal life through Lichdom. As far as I know, none of the other Domini tried to live forever, although none of them really got too old and were faced w/ dieing of old age.

[Cusashorn]

As I said, each of the Domini have purple flames emanating from thier eyes. That sign of evil magic in itself is not something you normally see with most undead.

[Slask]

<cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sylaz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah, I don't really think Venril would have complete control over them, as there's nothing to suggest that Venril isn't proud of his offspring and the Sathir family as a whole.The only real problem he has is that Rile betrayed him once, and as was posted just before this, he's taking steps to ensure that that won't happen again.If the stories are true, Rile wasn't too happy with the way his father ruled, but once emperor, he didn't really change things much. Atrebe on the other hand seemed to really enjoy what his grandfather did, delving deep into dark magic himself. Ganak seemed more along the lines of this as well, and I don't really know a lot about Chottal. (I don't really think there's a lot to know)Not to mention, apart from the Swifttails I don't think many Iksar wouldn't jump at the chance to live forever, no matter how it had to occur. I personally would find myself fully in the service of Venril, given that he's one of the greatest leaders Norrath has ever seen, and family, to boot.That said, Venril's no idiot, and I'm sure that by having a hand in their resurrection he has ensured that should they try to usurp his power, they will be swiftly dealt with.</blockquote>Yeah, I too doubt Venril has complete control of the resurrected Domini, but enough to keep them well in line. Although that brings up a question. I haven't personally seen any evidence as to exactly how Venril accomplished raising the rest of his sons' sons from the grave, but I would imagine that he brought them all back as Liches. If they were brought back through Necromancy I'd think that they would have been nothing more then mindless zombies, certainly not capable of leading large chunks of a flourishing empire. If they are all Liches then simply keeping their phylacteries should be enough to keep them from challenging his rule.Rile was really the only one to try betraying their father and usurp control of the empire, and the only reason he did it was b/c he wanted to be emperor and not live under his fathers control forever. Which, ironically, is exactly what ended up happening anyway. All the others became emperor through the natural deaths of their fathers so none of them had the need to do what Rile did, but you have to wonder if they all would have done the same if faces with a similar situation. I mean, they were all great, powerful, and proud rulers of a large empire, how do you think they feel about being brought back to serve?  It'd be interesting to find out.I don't know how true it is that all Iksar would jump at the opportunity of eternal life through Lichdom. As far as I know, none of the other Domini tried to live forever, although none of them really got too old and were faced w/ dieing of old age.</blockquote><p>I was always under the impression that the main reason Rile killed Venril was because Venril made a pact with Inny (rather then their creator, Cazic) to become immortal, thus the reason many Iksar of EQ1 days (and a number in EQ2 time) considered Venril to be a blasphemous traitor.</p><p>Granted, the 'stop him so I can have a chance of ruling myself' was probably right beside that line of reasoning in Rile's head when he did it.</p>

[DeBasilisk]

I agree slaskia, the Iksar have always been very devoted to Cazic, our creator.If for no reason other than......FEAR!I mean, consider: The Shissar were a powerful race of snake-men who betrayed their God (always assumed to be CT.) Cazic Thule has never been a forgiving God when it came to his creations. If Venril had betrayed Cazic and made a pact with Inny, who's to say that the Empire of Ik may not have seen the dreaded Greenmist rising over the Field of Bone...

[Slask]

<p>Well there's one NPC (forget the name, she's in one of the buildings close to the dock) in Scale Yard whom's tale leads you to believe that CT isn't the source of the Green Mist: after all why would CT help the followers of his enemies?  </p><p>It is interesting though that CT hadn't done anything to Venril for his blasphemy (yet...you never know with gods).  I know that if <i>I</i> were CT...I be like 'so you think you are a god now?  Pffft...*SMITE*'.</p><p>There <i>is</i> the possibility though that Venril had gotten so powerful by now that it gives CT (and other gods) reason to hesitate to do anything directly to him (that the gods kept getting their [Removed for Content] handed to him in EQ1 days by 'mere mortals' doesn't help any).  Who knows though what they have up their etheral sleeves however....</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Slaskia wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well there's one NPC (forget the name, she's in one of the buildings close to the dock) in Scale Yard whom's tale leads you to believe that CT isn't the source of the Green Mist: after all why would CT help the followers of his enemies?  </p><p>It is interesting though that CT hadn't done anything to Venril for his blasphemy (yet...you never know with gods).  I know that if <i>I</i> were CT...I be like 'so you think you are a god now?  Pffft...*SMITE*'.</p><p>There <i>is</i> the possibility though that Venril had gotten so powerful by now that it gives CT (and other gods) reason to hesitate to do anything directly to him (that the gods kept getting their [Removed for Content] handed to him in EQ1 days by 'mere mortals' doesn't help any).  Who knows though what they have up their etheral sleeves however....</p></blockquote><p>The thing you need to know about both the Shissar and the 2nd Rallosian army is that both forces severely defiled the creations and property of Cazic Thule.</p><p>Drive his race to extinction through slavery and deny him as thier creator? Greenmist.</p><p>Defile and destroy his temple, enslave the beings within, and loot its treasures? Greenmist.</p><p>Make a pact with Innoruuk for one's own personal gain without hurting the other iksar as a race in it's entirety, and eventually becomming thier leader in a new empire? No Greenmist.</p><p>Granted, Venril Sathir formed up the new Sathirian Empire under the guise that Cazic Thule had abandoned them and that he was no longer thier savior, but he hasn't done anything to violate Cazic Thule's domain.</p>

[DeBasilisk]

I think we really need to get inside the head of Venril Sathir.The Overlord is always talking about the God's abandonment of Norrath as opposed to his "salvation," of Freeport at the Battle of Defiance. I'd guess that someone like that could potentially [Removed for Content] off the pantheon, but then again, I can't say so for sure. I mean, we always assume that Lucan has or had some kind of pact with Inny. Would the God of Hate give him such favor if he had something to lose? And wasn't it Innoruuk who made the initial pact with Venril?Does Venril actually intend to take worship away from CT and to transfer it towards himself? If so, I'd guess Greenmist.Anyhow, it's all a little off topic.

[Slask]

<p>Good point Cusa, I'd forgotten that the Rallosians were targeting CT's 'property' as well.</p><p>If you did the 'Pre-RoK build up' quests, you find out that not only did Venril command that all Iksar that had lived among softskins were 'blood traitors' to be slain, but that he had his forces hunt down and kill any Iksar that held fast to CT worship. Basically since o'Venril thinks he's a god now, he wants all Iksar to only worship <i>him</i>.  And if you don't....you die....</p><p>That could be grounds for Venril getting smited by CT, however it seems he hasn't done enough 'damage' yet to get CT's attention....</p>

[Apocroph]

<cite>Slaskia wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Good point Cusa, I'd forgotten that the Rallosians were targeting CT's 'property' as well.</p><p>If you did the 'Pre-RoK build up' quests, you find out that not only did Venril command that all Iksar that had lived among softskins were 'blood traitors' to be slain, but that he had his forces hunt down and kill any Iksar that held fast to CT worship. Basically since o'Venril thinks he's a god now, he wants all Iksar to only worship <i>him</i>.  And if you don't....you die....</p><p>That could be grounds for Venril getting smited by CT, however it seems he hasn't done enough 'damage' yet to get CT's attention....</p></blockquote>I just hope this isn't Venril Sathir trying his hand at the "Mistmoore makes a bid for godhood" storyline.

[DocFlareon]

<cite>Slaskia wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Good point Cusa, I'd forgotten that the Rallosians were targeting CT's 'property' as well.</p><p>If you did the 'Pre-RoK build up' quests, you find out that not only did Venril command that all Iksar that had lived among softskins were 'blood traitors' to be slain, but that he had his forces hunt down and kill any Iksar that held fast to CT worship. Basically since o'Venril thinks he's a god now, he wants all Iksar to only worship <i>him</i>.  And if you don't....you die....</p><p>That could be grounds for Venril getting smited by CT, however it seems he hasn't done enough 'damage' yet to get CT's attention....</p></blockquote>I missed the quests in GU 38 and 39, but I have a feeling that devotion to Thule on the Kunark mainland has not quite been expunged.  From my adventures in Kylong and the Fens, I have been given the impression that the Heretic's grasp on his subjects is not as tight as he would like.  I am willing to bet that Cazic's  worshipers have taken their devotion to the Lord of Fear underground, much as groups of Christians did in the Second and Third Centuries here on Earth.Though I do wonder. . .  What is going through Danak's mind right now?

[Rabid-Othmir]

<cite>Slaskia wrote:</cite><blockquote>That could be grounds for Venril getting smited by CT, however it seems he hasn't done enough 'damage' yet to get CT's attention....</blockquote>With the gods only recently returned, it could be that Cazic-Thule just doesn't have the power to go smiting betrayers.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Rabid-Othmir wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Slaskia wrote:</cite><blockquote>That could be grounds for Venril getting smited by CT, however it seems he hasn't done enough 'damage' yet to get CT's attention....</blockquote>With the gods only recently returned, it could be that Cazic-Thule just doesn't have the power to go smiting betrayers.</blockquote>He had enough power to smite the Rallosians during his absense...

[Urgol]

If it was he at all..And don't forget that a god's power depends on the faith (and number) of his followers, so by creating his own cult Venril weakens CT, too.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Urgol wrote:</cite><blockquote>And don't forget that a god's power depends on the faith (and number) of his followers, so by creating his own cult Venril weakens CT, too. </blockquote>Whut?

[Slask]

<cite>Urgol wrote:</cite><blockquote>If it was he at all..And don't forget that a god's power depends on the faith (and number) of his followers, so by creating his own cult Venril weakens CT, too. </blockquote>While that's true in certain folklore and other genre, that's not really the case when it comes to Everquest gods.  Think about it....if that were the case...why 'disappear' for centuries and risk the very source of your power 'forgetting' about you and thus possibility 'killing' you for good?

[goldfeesh641]

Aye not to mention that there are several problems with the concept of power being drawn from followers in this game.1) What about the Nameless?  No one worships him, yet he created even the gods.2) The gods were created in "divinity" hence they existed prior to any followers.3) Similar to the above, if the gods created the mortals, then obviously they were around prior to having followers of their own.Anyway, I don't know that Cazic quite cares yet about Venril's eschewing of his belief.  I mean, really, the primordial force behind Cazic (fear) is still VERY present in Kunark, and so his domain reaches there.  By scaring his followers into submission, Venril may actually only be fueling Cazic's power even further...

[Gasheron]

<p>My only real question with the return of the Domini is who or what is Rile? Who as in who's body is he inhabiting, and what as in, if he's not in someone's body, but still considered a lich, what exactly is he? A ghost of a lich? A non-physical manifestation?</p><p>It's wierd that Rile is back while Venril is inside Rile's body, unless Venril somehow switched, in which case I'd really like to know who/what he is right now.</p>