Is it me, or is warrior dps abnormally high ?

[Dray02]

I'm mostly a casual player, and don't obcessivly look at parses, but the other day for poops and grins I downloaded and installed ACT.  Later that night our guild went on a status raid.  Now this was nothing special, the groups weren't optomized for generating dps, but zonewide the pally and monk did incredibly well on the parse.  I read these boards, and dps seems to be a favorite topic.  Did I miss something posted where the folks at SoE are just going to mostly normalize everyone's dps to around the same number?  I full well realize that dps is gear dependent, but it seems to me that if there is any dps tier system that the tank types should not have consistantly parses so well.  Just wondering if I missed a change.

[satyr-icon]

<p>As people get better gear, better spell quality and learns how to play their class to the max, their dps will increase with that. There are many factors that matters, but it is not unlikely to see warriors parse 2-3k, at the same time you can find warlocks that has a hard time beating 1200. I would say 20% is your gear, 20% is your spell quality and 60% comes from your playstyle and groupsetup. </p><p> Some people will cast a spell or use a combat art every now and then, some people will que them up so they are always casting something for the entire duration of the fight, these things will make an impact. Also, for a tank it is good to do a lot of dps, because dps = hate. </p>

[Windowlicker]

It's not that warrior DPS is high, it's that Sony keeps beating us senseless with nerfs.  I seriously can't remember the last boost we were given beyond "Fixing" Broodlings.

[Xedex]

<cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's not that warrior DPS is high, it's that Sony keeps beating us senseless with nerfs.  I seriously can't remember the last boost we were given beyond "Fixing" Broodlings.</blockquote>dont know what boosts we need honestly. I believe the class is pretty much fine the way it is. AE fights we shine and single target fights we still are near the top. Don't know what more you want really.

[satyr-icon]

<cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's not that warrior DPS is high, it's that Sony keeps beating us senseless with nerfs.  I seriously can't remember the last boost we were given beyond "Fixing" Broodlings.</blockquote>What nerfs are you refering to?

[Deathspell]

<cite>Xedex wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's not that warrior DPS is high, it's that Sony keeps beating us senseless with nerfs.  I seriously can't remember the last boost we were given beyond "Fixing" Broodlings.</blockquote>dont know what boosts we need honestly. I believe the class is pretty much fine the way it is. AE fights we shine and single target fights we still are near the top. Don't know what more you want really.</blockquote>I beg to differ. A lot depends on your group setup and the mobs, but a Berserker that knows his stuff can easily keep up with a Warlock's dps, even in a zone like VOES with linked mobs.I've seen Guardians and Bruisers dish out massive dps. Granted those players had good gear, but so do most of us in our guild.Fact is, every class has DPS now really coz "everybody has to be equal in soloing content" and that's where it went wrong imo, this is an MMO, not a FPS game.

[Xedex]

<cite>Deathspell wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xedex wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's not that warrior DPS is high, it's that Sony keeps beating us senseless with nerfs.  I seriously can't remember the last boost we were given beyond "Fixing" Broodlings.</blockquote>dont know what boosts we need honestly. I believe the class is pretty much fine the way it is. AE fights we shine and single target fights we still are near the top. Don't know what more you want really.</blockquote>I beg to differ. A lot depends on your group setup and the mobs, but a Berserker that knows his stuff can easily keep up with a Warlock's dps, even in a zone like VOES with linked mobs.I've seen Guardians and Bruisers dish out massive dps. Granted those players had good gear, but so do most of us in our guild.Fact is, every class has DPS now really coz "everybody has to be equal in soloing content" and that's where it went wrong imo, this is an MMO, not a FPS game.</blockquote>well honestly in a raid setting we are just fine as it is. I don't do instances or solo, so honestly i could give a rats [Removed for Content] what the class is like to solo or group, but when i have i've always been at or near top of the parses in group instances and soloing is just too easy in this game.

[Wildmage]

<cite>Deathspell wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xedex wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's not that warrior DPS is high, it's that Sony keeps beating us senseless with nerfs.  I seriously can't remember the last boost we were given beyond "Fixing" Broodlings.</blockquote>dont know what boosts we need honestly. I believe the class is pretty much fine the way it is. AE fights we shine and single target fights we still are near the top. Don't know what more you want really.</blockquote>I beg to differ. A lot depends on your group setup and the mobs, but a Berserker that knows his stuff can easily keep up with a Warlock's dps, even in a zone like VOES with linked mobs.I've seen Guardians and Bruisers dish out massive dps. Granted those players had good gear, but so do most of us in our guild.Fact is, every class has DPS now really coz "everybody has to be equal in soloing content" and that's where it went wrong imo, this is an MMO, not a FPS game.</blockquote>Untrue the real reason why tanks are showing up as having high dps is that they have to do high dps because the tanking mechanics in this game are borked taunts are worthless and 1 point of damage equals 1 point of hate so that tank has to be able to put out comparable dps numbers to the dps classes in a group or he can't tank.  Thats why most tanks are off stancing even in raids now.  Also the Stamina Warrior line is overpowered  compared to the other lines and all the warriors are going cookie cutter build because of it.  Also keep in mind tanks dps is a lil easier to do as currently their boosting their auto-attack like crazy with double attack procs and crit increases  while the lock has only his spells to create his dps really so any kind of lag occurring will vastly impact your dps over theirs as some of it is automated.  basically high end gear benefits non casters more than it ever benefits casters comparatively which is why casters need to prioritize spell quality over equipment.  And now that 80 tanks are picking up their epics their dps is going to go up way way higher now while ours uhh...yeah thats another thread.

[Deathspell]

<cite>Wildmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deathspell wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xedex wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's not that warrior DPS is high, it's that Sony keeps beating us senseless with nerfs.  I seriously can't remember the last boost we were given beyond "Fixing" Broodlings.</blockquote>dont know what boosts we need honestly. I believe the class is pretty much fine the way it is. AE fights we shine and single target fights we still are near the top. Don't know what more you want really.</blockquote>I beg to differ. A lot depends on your group setup and the mobs, but a Berserker that knows his stuff can easily keep up with a Warlock's dps, even in a zone like VOES with linked mobs.I've seen Guardians and Bruisers dish out massive dps. Granted those players had good gear, but so do most of us in our guild.Fact is, every class has DPS now really coz "everybody has to be equal in soloing content" and that's where it went wrong imo, this is an MMO, not a FPS game.</blockquote>Untrue the real reason why tanks are showing up as having high dps is that they have to do high dps because the tanking mechanics in this game are borked taunts are worthless and 1 point of damage equals 1 point of hate so that tank has to be able to put out comparable dps numbers to the dps classes in a group or he can't tank.  Thats why most tanks are off stancing even in raids now.  Also the Stamina Warrior line is overpowered  compared to the other lines and all the warriors are going cookie cutter build because of it.  Also keep in mind tanks dps is a lil easier to do as currently their boosting their auto-attack like crazy with double attack procs and crit increases  while the lock has only his spells to create his dps really so any kind of lag occurring will vastly impact your dps over theirs as some of it is automated.  basically high end gear benefits non casters more than it ever benefits casters comparatively which is why casters need to prioritize spell quality over equipment.  And now that 80 tanks are picking up their epics their dps is going to go up way way higher now while ours uhh...yeah thats another thread.</blockquote>Why is what I said untrue?English is not my first language,  but to me you're saying the same thing.Making use of the current status of the game, be it borked or overpowered AA-lines, weapons, gear.... is considered knowing your class and knowing what you're doing.

[Wildmage]

Its untrue in that the soloing aspect of this game has nothing to do with why warrior dps is high. its for the reasons I stated above they have nothing to do with soloing ability guardians are the worst soloing fighter but their still doing high dps in raids.  Key word is Raids where their in a group set up to maximize their dps/aggro management.  Don't Trust Parsers their a flawed tool.

[Bardrick]

Buffs, Buffs, Buffs.A HUGE difference in DPS for a tank class is the buffs.  The main tank has every (or better have) buff, damage shield, proc, etc on them.  I play a Shadowknight, and my solo DPS vs my raid DPS, has a big gap.  I do better then 2x damage with all the buffs on me.In reguards to the other poster, I assume it is all personal preference, but I do use all my taunts, and specials.  I just try to time them every other second or so, then they go off in between auto attack as well.  Not right, not wrong, just my style.

[Windowlicker]

It's easy to see we're broken.  Why pickup a Warlock for DPS these days in anything but a raid?  You might as well fill those slots with Guardian's, Berserker's or any other melee that can kick out burst damage.They'll do more damage then we will, and actually perform the job better then us.We're not really much in the way of DPS in any situation but raiding these days. 

[Latpow]

<p>My old friend Zahne, I think grouping with Grum too much is making you bitter.  A trend I've seen in grouping now is that there are so many scouts + Dirges in the high end game now that they are usually found in most groups.  With Scouts + Dirges in the group the warriors are getting a stacked group... while it's rare that casters get a stacked group for them.  Warriors also get "first strike" at mobs with burst DPS, so that inflates the parse as well.  </p><p> You know as well as I do, unless things have changed drastically lately... that even if a warrior WAS the best option, there's not enough of them around LFG to be stealing group slots.  It's hard enough to find just ONE to tank for you.   Warlocks do great on raids and unless we have a very skilled Wizard (which is RARE or is it a tank that can keep aggro off a good wizard rare?) you guys usually beat out Wizards on both single and multiple targets.   The only think I see really inflated right now is Assassin raid DPS (should they really be doing 1k+ more than everyone else?)... but that's another issue.  </p>

[Windowlicker]

<cite>Latpow wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>My old friend Zahne, I think grouping with Grum too much is making you bitter.  A trend I've seen in grouping now is that there are so many scouts + Dirges in the high end game now that they are usually found in most groups.  With Scouts + Dirges in the group the warriors are getting a stacked group... while it's rare that casters get a stacked group for them.  Warriors also get "first strike" at mobs with burst DPS, so that inflates the parse as well.  </p><p> You know as well as I do, unless things have changed drastically lately... that even if a warrior WAS the best option, there's not enough of them around LFG to be stealing group slots.  It's hard enough to find just ONE to tank for you.   Warlocks do great on raids and unless we have a very skilled Wizard (which is RARE or is it a tank that can keep aggro off a good wizard rare?) you guys usually beat out Wizards on both single and multiple targets.   The only think I see really inflated right now is Assassin raid DPS (should they really be doing 1k+ more than everyone else?)... but that's another issue.  </p></blockquote>Any Guard with the right AA spec can kick out solid numbers.  Grum is a fine example of wtfguard-dps though.  When he's coming in second or third on an epic in a raidzone ... there's a problem.  Especially when I know the players on the parse are fairly skilled wearing decent gear.To be honest, it's more the fact that KoS was designed with AE classes in mind.  Even in EoF, the zones had been designed in such a way we functioned as T1 dps in most any setting.With RoK, they've designed everything differently.  Whoever was in charge of the zone layouts seems to have completely forgotten the multi-mob encounters, and made the game primarily single-target.  None of the mobs have nearly enough HP in some of the zones.We were given boosts to our old spells, which frankly had been balanced for a respectable volume of multi-mob encounters. (As with the older expansions)The problem isn't so much in the *raid* zones, as it is in the remaining content.  During KoS or EoF, I personally can't think of a single zone where plate tanks would be giving the Warlock a run on the parser. I do have a problem with that.  It's not on a "I should be first all the time" level, it's more on a "You can't have your cake and eat it too" level.By playing a cloth DPS class like the Warlock, you understand that your sacrificing certain things like survivability or utility .  You do this for the extra DPS.  When you pick a tank like a Guardian, you understand that your electing to take a defensively strong class who isn't exactly going to be the source of the best DPS.That isn't the case right now, and that's where I see things broken.Edit: I'm also not saying this as just a Warlock.  I'm saying this as a Warlock with a Guard.  My 80 Guard *alt* can break 2k dps easily.

[Cicilia]

<cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>By playing a cloth DPS class like the Warlock, you understand that your sacrificing certain things like survivability or utility .  You do this for the extra DPS.  When you pick a tank like a Guardian, you understand that your electing to take a defensively strong class who isn't exactly going to be the source of the best DPS.That isn't the case right now, and that's where I see things broken.</blockquote><img src="http://www.drachentaenzer.de/forum/html/emoticons/up_applaus.gif" alt="" border="0" />

[CelebornXI]

if your tanks are parsing in second or third on your RAID parses you need to hire some new dps... even if the MT has a stacked group, which they should, there is no possible reason for the rest of the dps to slack. Unless your raid builds are terrible, in that event I can see it happening.For those arguing about short heroic fights where tanks are topping the parses, we have 20second epic fights where the tank hits 4.5k... but the top 6 dps are at or above 7k. The classes are fairly balanced, it ay just be your groups and players that have issues. I agree on the heroic grouping issue of why would you ever pick up a warlock, we are as situational as possible, and it has almost always been the case that melee dps in heroic content is preferable, why bring a slow casting dps when fights last 15seconds?

[Windowlicker]

<cite>CelebornXI wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree on the heroic grouping issue of why would you ever pick up a warlock, we are as situational as possible, and it has almost always been the case that melee dps in heroic content is preferable, why bring a slow casting dps when fights last 15seconds?</blockquote>And this is where things are broken right now.  In DoF, KoS, EoF instances this was never the case.  It was always a boon to the group to have a good Warlock providing the hate was setup correctly.Now?  Now we're basicly doing the same damage as Plate tanks and Support classes.No, that's not working correctly.  Unless they've decided to change how the Warlock should be working.

[CelebornXI]

I don't think we are broken, at least not in that sense. The only way the would be able to bring some need to the warlock class is to have more than single target fights, and they won't change current content so it will be new dungeons/expansions away, and even then you would only be good for a few places. EoF really didn't need a warlock for anything, and only a few places in DoF and KoS were warlocks anything but single target damage.

[Windowlicker]

<cite>CelebornXI wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think we are broken, at least not in that sense. The only way the would be able to bring some need to the warlock class is to have more than single target fights, and they won't change current content so it will be new dungeons/expansions away, and even then you would only be good for a few places. EoF really didn't need a warlock for anything, and only a few places in DoF and KoS were warlocks anything but single target damage.</blockquote>Wow ... I"m not quite sure what game your playing.<b>DoF</b> - Jam packed full of encounters.  Raid zones AND instances.  Have you ever been in Poets?  How about the associated raid zone?  Have you seen any of the instances OR raids in that expansion?  - Warlock?  Extremely needed.<b>KoS</b> - Labs, LoA, ToS, Deathtoll - FULL OF ENCOUNTERS.  Instances?  HoF, Blackscale, Vaults, Nest, Den ... etc  - Jam packed full of encounters. - Warlock?  Extremely needed.<b>EoF</b> - Most of the raidzones did have mainly single target mobs, but there were an ample supply of encounters in instances, and overall our DPS was fine.  During EoF, KoS content was still raided and cleared.  - Warlock?  Extremely needed.<b>RoK</b> - We absolutely suck in instances on everything but about two pulls in Maidens, and about 3 or 4 encounters in Vaults.  So far, up to T2 we have roughly three pulls where people look at the Warlock for encounter DPS.  That's about the truth of the matter.

[CelebornXI]

I have raided every instance in t6, most of the contestedt7 KoS every instance, every contested    EoF every instance, all contested but three avatarst8 Every instance, and every every contested we have seenDoF, group mobs yes, need warlock hardly.. Poets was a deathrace think i tallied 22 deaths for one group of minotaurs, and again warlocks weren't needed, nice, but definitly not needed.KoS group mobs, sure, need a warlock? hell no, swashbuckler or conjurer could fill what we did for dps EoF avatars were really the only thing that could have been thought of needing a warlock, maybe cmayongRoK = single mobs not arguing that, but I can guarentee they aren't changing current content.and heroic instances of any tier do not need any class to complete.

[Leshrac Gol]

My main is a level 80 guardian. I do not as yet have my epic but on most solo mobs i parse about 1800 to 2300 depending on how many double attacks i land. mostly legendary rok gear and a few fables. my aa spec is set for dps sta agi str. to the OP, you are correct, our dps has increased  very much with this expansion.