Wizzy class

[greatchange]

<p>Would it be possible to think about testing bumping the wizy damage up but making them more squishy?  Everything EQ has published seems to single them out as the highest DPS'ers and i think we know that isn't really true anymore.  Just looking at their skills you would think they would be much more damage orientated and be able to easily out DPS anyone on a single target.  Granted that single target walking up to them and going melee would clean their clock, but getting there while being ravaged with spells should be a pain.</p><p> I don't even think i have a specific request on how to do this.  Just a series of small tweeks so you can fell out the balance as you go.</p><p>By the way, first time really playing on the test server with my 80 wiz.  Is it just me or are the details in the game WAY better.  Everything seems to have so much more detail.  I am sure it has to do with the pending upgrade i heard was coming.  If so,  i like it.</p>

[greatchange]

ooppps, graphics might have been my settings on my other account...lol.  Playing on a 55' HD screen so they all look pretty good.  I think i accidently switched something while raiding and just got use to it. 

[Sabutai]

<cite>Darkdeus@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Would it be possible to think about testing bumping the wizy damage up but making them more squishy?  Everything EQ has published seems to single them out as the highest DPS'ers and i think we know that isn't really true anymore.  Just looking at their skills you would think they would be much more damage orientated and be able to easily out DPS anyone on a single target.  Granted that single target walking up to them and going melee would clean their clock, but getting there while being ravaged with spells should be a pain.</p><p> I don't even think i have a specific request on how to do this.  Just a series of small tweeks so you can fell out the balance as you go.</p><p>By the way, first time really playing on the test server with my 80 wiz.  Is it just me or are the details in the game WAY better.  Everything seems to have so much more detail.  I am sure it has to do with the pending upgrade i heard was coming.  If so,  i like it.</p></blockquote>so being the single best dps class in the game isn't enough, you want more?

[Dracot]

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkdeus@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Would it be possible to think about testing bumping the wizy damage up but making them more squishy?  Everything EQ has published seems to single them out as the highest DPS'ers and i think we know that isn't really true anymore.  Just looking at their skills you would think they would be much more damage orientated and be able to easily out DPS anyone on a single target.  Granted that single target walking up to them and going melee would clean their clock, but getting there while being ravaged with spells should be a pain.</p><p> I don't even think i have a specific request on how to do this.  Just a series of small tweeks so you can fell out the balance as you go.</p><p>By the way, first time really playing on the test server with my 80 wiz.  Is it just me or are the details in the game WAY better.  Everything seems to have so much more detail.  I am sure it has to do with the pending upgrade i heard was coming.  If so,  i like it.</p></blockquote>so being the single best dps class in the game isn't enough, you want more?</blockquote>amazing isn't it?

[Sinful One]

I'm sorry but even i thought ... Eh?If you want more DPS perfect your casting order, get more spellcrit, spell damage and proccing items.Wizards are insane DPS as it is.

[Freliant]

<p>Well, wizzies are very good dps... but right now, we are still getting pummeled by scout classes.  Ex.: Wizzie parses 3k, assassin parses 3.5k... Wizzy gets a 4% threat transfer, assassin gets much more. Wizzie gets cloth and little avoidance, Assassin gets chain and when they want to, a little shield to hide behind.</p><p> Just a few things that I have noticed <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Anyways, once the wizzy is raid equipped and with his mythical epic, things tend to be right where they should be... just not before this point. </p>

[Illine]

<p>if wizzards need fixing, I would like first SOE to look at classes that are really broken, wizzies are still T1 dps even if sometimes they are not THE best.</p>

[Sabutai]

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well, wizzies are very good dps... but right now, we are still getting pummeled by scout classes.  Ex.: Wizzie parses 3k, assassin parses 3.5k... Wizzy gets a 4% threat transfer, assassin gets much more. Wizzie gets cloth and little avoidance, Assassin gets chain and when they want to, a little shield to hide behind.</p><p> Just a few things that I have noticed <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p><p>Anyways, once the wizzy is raid equipped and with his mythical epic, things tend to be right where they should be... just not before this point. </p></blockquote>sorry, but before you get your epic, wizards are still the #1 dps class in the game, you're just doing something wrong.

[Tamo]

<cite>Earar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>if wizzards need fixing, I would like first SOE to look at classes that are really broken, wizzies are still T1 dps even if sometimes they are not THE best.</p></blockquote><p>What's this T1/T2 DPS people keep refering to? Last time I checked DPS wasn't divided into tiers... if you suck your DPS will be low. If you know what your doing the parse will show it. </p><p>As for wizards being or not being the best DPS it all counts on player skill tbh.</p>

[Windowlicker]

Wizards and Warlocks have taken NUMEROUS hits over the past several months and our DPS is lower then it should be.

[Leucippus]

"so being the single best dps class in the game isn't enough, you want more?"Hmm, while grouped anyway, and with similar equipment, buffs, etc.Assassins, rangers, and swashybucklers beyond any doubt out dps us.Coercers, illusionists, necromancers, conjurers, and warlocks out dps us.Don't be at all surprised if a Fury dishes out more damage than a wizard.I am not surprised when a Bezerker around matches a wizard's dpsI think we do just somewhat better at damaging a mob than a Brigand, Guardian, Monk, or Bruiser (well, zone wide at lea st) We usually can out dps a dirgeWe can out dps a troubador.I think wizards can out dps the other five healer classes.If a battle runs long, a wizard might just as well sit down. A wizard is a mana lush.If there is chain pulling, good luck being a wizard, well any mage actually. You see, combat arts and auto attack are generally castable while moving, spells are not.So, unless you have a tank that is pulling mob s back to you, so you can remain stationary, a mag e's dps suffers greatly! Do not underestimate how much this situat ion lowers wizard, and all mage, dps. Conjurers and necromancers have an inherent advantage with aggro, since their aggro is split between the mage and the mage's pet, until the pet dies.Single player against solo mobs? Well, wizards do quite well there, no doubt about that. Not awe inspiring, but wizards can hold their own.Since top dps in the game was mentioned, a wizard's level 80 spell should get mentioned. Casting the spell Rays of Disintegration is sufficient to show the wizard casting it needs to get a clue; that spell lowers the wizard's dps, the dps of all other mages in the group, and annoys all the other mages in the group. What a fine spell it is, not!Solusek Ro surely is most displeased with that spell. For the non-mythical epic, the legendary dagger from maiden's is at least comparible (is better most likely) dps wise, along with a couple other choices. (And then there is the issue with the epic's graphics ...)Wizards can generate some huge single hits from time to time, whoop-de-do!Also, even those hits pale in comparison to som e others, we all know what those other spells a re. Wizards are the top dps in the game? Sure we are.-Leucippus

[EasternKing]

<cite>Leucippus wrote:</cite><blockquote>"so being the single best dps class in the game isn't enough, you want more?"Hmm, while grouped anyway, and with similar equipment, buffs, etc.Assassins, rangers, and swashybucklers beyond any doubt out dps us.Coercers, illusionists, necromancers, conjurers, and warlocks out dps us.Don't be at all surprised if a Fury dishes out more damage than a wizard.I am not surprised when a Bezerker around matches a wizard's dpsI think we do just somewhat better at damaging a mob than a Brigand, Guardian, Monk, or Bruiser (well, zone wide at lea st) We usually can out dps a dirgeWe can out dps a troubador.I think wizards can out dps the other five healer classes.If a battle runs long, a wizard might just as well sit down. A wizard is a mana lush.If there is chain pulling, good luck being a wizard, well any mage actually. You see, combat arts and auto attack are generally castable while moving, spells are not.So, unless you have a tank that is pulling mob s back to you, so you can remain stationary, a mag e's dps suffers greatly! Do not underestimate how much this situat ion lowers wizard, and all mage, dps. Conjurers and necromancers have an inherent advantage with aggro, since their aggro is split between the mage and the mage's pet, until the pet dies.Single player against solo mobs? Well, wizards do quite well there, no doubt about that. Not awe inspiring, but wizards can hold their own.Since top dps in the game was mentioned, a wizard's level 80 spell should get mentioned. Casting the spell Rays of Disintegration is sufficient to show the wizard casting it needs to get a clue; that spell lowers the wizard's dps, the dps of all other mages in the group, and annoys all the other mages in the group. What a fine spell it is, not!Solusek Ro surely is most displeased with that spell. For the non-mythical epic, the legendary dagger from maiden's is at least comparible (is better most likely) dps wise, along with a couple other choices. (And then there is the issue with the epic's graphics ...)Wizards can generate some huge single hits from time to time, whoop-de-do!Also, even those hits pale in comparison to som e others, we all know what those other spells a re. Wizards are the top dps in the game? Sure we are.-Leucippus</blockquote>Dude Wizards flat out beat just about everyone on a parser at high end raiding. your smoking crack if you think wizards and warlocks need a dps booster.

[Leucippus]

<cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote></blockquote>Dude Wizards flat out beat just about everyone on a parser at high end raiding. your smoking crack if you think wizards and warlocks need a dps booster.</blockquote>Grouped play, not raids. A super elite equipped wizard, in a perfect group, with perfect buffs, all setup to maximize that one wizard's dps. Well maybe that wizard can hold one's own. But you know what, I still don't belive it. Simply put, in all cases I suspect, a raid would be better off with a second scout dps group instead of a mage dps group. And in a mage dps group, I am not convinced have a wizard present is better than doubling up on one of the other mage classes.But I am not a hardcore raider, so really,  I am not sure. Did you wonder why they changed the legs in the wizard's RoK VP set on test? I will tell you why: because the EoF fabled set legs were still the best wizard legs in the game before that change; i.e. the level 80 wizard spell Bolt of Ice was worse than the level 70 wizard spell Ice Nova before that change, assuming a wizard had both. I suspect there is a "perfect" set of equipment and conditions that lets a wizard hold one's old. Without that pe rfect setup, a wizard is gimped. The game should not be balanced against that one perfect setup!Even your statement has one rather huge loop-hole in it doesn't it, the "just about" in your phrase above?This thread's topic is about wizards not warlocks. The nature of this post shows part of the problem with wizard dps. Assuming one has taken time to study this rather complex combat system in EQ2, and optimizes one's actions to take that combat system into account: a wizard in a solo setting can hold one's own. However, in a group setting that situation changes. It seems the interaction between classes is such that wizards get out dpsed by almost every other class. Maybe, maybe, there is some perfect setup that lets a wizard hold one's own, but at this point I am beginning to doubt it. Relying on 100% recast reduction on the RoK VP fabled set for a wizard's most power spell, Bolt of Ice, is not acceptable balancing! One particular setup that one might be able to achieve to see this situation would be to have the raiding guilds take a group into the RoK instances. Compare how long it takes to complete the instance using various class setups. It that situation, the dps senerio I describe should become appparent.Another interesting situation that arises, that could explain the conflicting replies, could be seen by having one toon from a raiding guild and the rest non raiders in a RoK in stance group. If that one raider is a dps class, e xpect cases where that toon's dps is 1000 dps or h igher above the next highest dps in the group. Thi s rather huge descrepency in dps is what  I perceive to be the death of pick-up-groups in RoK. Certain encounters seem to be balanced such that is is all but impossible for a pick-up-group to complete the zone, even if those encounters are trivial for a group of raiders; i.e. Sandstorm in Maiden's.It would be nice if the log files attributed procs generated by other players, to the player casting the proc and not the player  triggering the proc. In that way, ACT would be eas ier to interpret. (A troubador would benefit emmen sely from this change too btw.)  -LeucippusP.S. The wierd formatting in the post is partly do to the word wrap not functioning properly while I try to type this post.

[noetici]

<p>Well. I am pretty surprised by this being asked for. I have done a LOT of grouping, with the l337 raid fabled equipped guild groups, the semi fabled typical guild group, and the random joe-shmo pickup group. As a tank (guard), as two types of casters (warlock and illusionist), and on my warden. There is one thing I have noticed about the pure-DPS classes... either you are REALLY bad, or you are decent/up to expectation. Group setup isn't everything. If you are a sorcerer (even a warlock) and are not on top of the parse or very close to it (I've seen plenty of times where the sorcerer would be about equal to the scout, but in those circumstances it's usually effort and/or gear/buffs creating the difference). There are SO many bad sorcerers out there it shocks me sometimes, especially considering how amazing the RoK gear is for them.</p><p>I am very sympathetic to cries for buffage to classes that feel [Removed for Content], being an 'old school' warlock. But the only class that I see regularly coming close to sorcerers is assassins, and that's where they should be.</p>

[Leucippus]

<cite>noeticity wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well. I am pretty surprised by this being asked for. I have done a LOT of grouping, with the l337 raid fabled equipped guild groups, the semi fabled typical guild group, and the random joe-shmo pickup group. As a tank (guard), as two types of casters (warlock and illusionist), and on my warden. There is one thing I have noticed about the pure-DPS classes... either you are REALLY bad, or you are decent/up to expectation. Group setup isn't everything. If you are a sorcerer (even a warlock) and are not on top of the parse or very close to it (I've seen plenty of times where the sorcerer would be about equal to the scout, but in those circumstances it's usually effort and/or gear/buffs creating the difference). There are SO many bad sorcerers out there it shocks me sometimes, especially considering how amazing the RoK gear is for them.</p><p>I am very sympathetic to cries for buffage to classes that feel [Removed for Content], being an 'old school' warlock. But the only class that I see regularly coming close to sorcerers is assassins, and that's where they should be.</p></blockquote>Undoubtably, there are some very, very bad wizards out there very bad. The situation is quite sad actually.Watch a well played scout group with a dirge in it sometime, the results are amazing. Mages have no chance whatsoever of keeping up. I am tempted to say brigand too; however, brigands do boost mage dps also, so I do not think that class is making the difference.Try spinning mobs in place, instead of pulling back to a "safe" spot. When you do the former, two things occur: first, mage dps drops drastically in relation to scout dps because the mages can not cast while running; it seems scouts can cast while running. The longer cast times mages have do not help the situation either; in many cases, the mobs are dead before the mages can finish casting. The mage long cast times do not have as much of an effect on longer battles, and I suspect they help with aggro control. The hate transfer classes (assassin and swashbuckler) hit hard soon, then drop in dps, the mages (well wizards at least) do not start hitting hard until a few seconds into the battle. Second, mages do not have time to prebuff; i.e., well wizards at least (and I believe the warlock you mention), need some time just prior to the pull to cast a couple self, short duration prebuffs that help quite a bit, which is also why a tank with consist timing of pulls is needed to get decent dps from a wizard.Also, warlocks are NOT wizards. They are very different classes.Be sure to look at zone wide parses when done with the zone when making comparisons. Some classes have very high burst damage (bruiser and monk come to mind), but their zone wide damage is quite a bit lower.From what I have seen swashbucklers seem to consistently out dps assassins.Rangers seem to be a bit like wizards, a wide range in the dps they produce.I suspect all the conflicting observations  is due to buff/debuff stacking, or some other interaction between  classes. When soloing, wizards do seem to hold their own, to say the least. Although I do have to agree, there are some very sad wizards out there.-Leucippus

[Lady Uaelr]

Wizards are on the parse but very seldom top it.<div></div><div>#1-Ranger around 2400 - 3400 dps</div><div>#2-Necro around 2500 - 3200 dps</div><div>#3-Illusionist around 2800- 3000 dps</div><div>#4-Wizard around 2400 - 2900 dps</div><div></div><div>This is what I usually see on the parse with the top 3 taking turns on top.</div><div></div><div>Wizard is almost always #3 or 4.</div><div></div><div>This is everyone with a couple of masters, a couple of fabled pieces and all legendary gear.</div><div></div><div>Not super elite but your average decent players that raid.</div><div></div><div>I got up to 3000 dps maybe twice but was I really casting and button mashing like crazy - and I know the others were not putting that much effort into it.</div><div></div><div>If there are any top wiz that are always on top of the parse please share your casting order so we may all let this matter rest once and for all.</div>

[Elephanton]

<cite>Lady Uaelrea wrote:</cite><blockquote><div>#1-Ranger around 2400 - 3400 dps</div><div>#2-Necro around 2500 - 3200 dps</div><div>#3-Illusionist around 2800- 3000 dps</div><div>#4-Wizard around 2400 - 2900 dps</div></blockquote>How come I don't see assasins in the first 4?

[Prrasha]

<cite>Lady Uaelrea wrote:</cite><blockquote> <div>#3-Illusionist around 2800- 3000 dps</div><div>#4-Wizard around 2400 - 2900 dps</div> <div>I got up to 3000 dps maybe twice but was I really casting and button mashing like crazy - and I know the others were not putting that much effort into it.</div> </blockquote>You got outparsed by a "not putting that much effort into it" Illusionist as a "button mashing like crazy" Wizard? I would <b>love</b> to see that zonewide parse... (Bet the illy "out-mashed" you at least 3 to 1.)

[Jasuo]

LOL, if you are a wizard and losing to anyone you're definitely doing something very wrong, I suggest comparing your cast cycle and gear to other notable raiding wizards, and warlocks should be just below wizards due to lack of grouped encounters this expansion.  But there is no reason to boost dps even more, that's about as ridiculous as the dark elves asking for their racial trait to be improved.  Even my lowbie warlock is dominating scouts 5 levels above him.

[Artalis the Elder]

As an 80 wiz who doesn't raid but has put a fair amount of effort into learning how to optimize dps and who has worked fairly hard on getting decent gear as well, I can say that there are certain things to keep in mind when talking about something as widely varied as Wizzy dps.The length of the fight can be a real major factor. Sometimes it's hard to squeeze more than a ball of magma and couple other spells into a fight, and in those quickies scouts, with their instacast CA's usually come out on top.I haven't run out of mana except when soloing ^^^ heroics in a long long time. (unless you count dying and getting rezzed to resume the fight)I did a run into Chardok recently and I was about 40 dps zonewide behind an assassin who was semi-comparably equipped (actually I think my gear was a little better) So I'm looking for ways to optimize it a bit further. Read the wizzy forums. Check your AA spec (Personally I recommend Wis line to the end, Agi line to the end and max out crits on Str line) Get Adept 3's at a minimum. Stack Disruption and spell damage and Crit everywhere you can. Go down the Iceshape tree on the EoF AA tree and abuse the heck out of that thing. Iceshape + Extended Frigid Gift (or whatever its called now)Remember that Wizzy's (and Warlocks to a lesser extent) get things that Scout DPS dont' get. Namely great AOE dps.If you work hard you can hang out in T1 dps. You might not be the top every time but you can be a good solid damage dealer.I would assume, that once a Wiz gets ahold of that Mythical Epic they will be the top dps or close to it, but not all of us are raiding VP (or raiding at all)

[XFnarX]

For high end DPS your top Parsers should be;Wizard / Warlock / AssassinSecondary and spike parsers;Swash / Ranger / Conj / Necro / Illus / BrigIf your Wizard isn't parsing over 3k zone wide, even for T1 & 2 try working on your gear and casting order. Wizards should be owning the parse even with the recent resistance changes. So I'm gonna have to agree with the populous here. Wizards are one of the best DPSers in game currently.Example of T2 DPS parse I took from my guild a while back (names were changed to protect the innocent.)<span style="font-size: small;color: #c6b647;"><b>Zonewide Trash DPS (20 encounters)</b></span><span style="color: #c6b647;"><b>Allies: (15:39) 49456649 | 52669 DPS [Assassin-Execute-35336]</b></span><b><span style="color: #c6b647;">Warlock 4305814 | 4586 DPS 8% 14:29Assassin 3339622 | 3557 DPS 6% 14:19Wizard 3333861 | 3550 DPS 6% 14:42Illusionist 3317015 | 3532 DPS 6% 14:19Swashbuckler 3242655 | 3453 DPS 6% 14:31Assassin 2900429 | 3089 DPS 5% 13:17Necromancer 2872193 | 3059 DPS 5% 14:25</span></b>

[theriatis]

<p>Hi,</p><p>just wanted to add a word or two to the discussion...</p><p>Yes, Wizards DO great DPS.... IF they are in the right group setup.</p><p>My DPS wanders between 2,5k and 4,5k and depends HEAVILY on the other classes (i'm talking about a raid situation).</p><p>What do i need in the Group ?</p><p>- An Illusionist. Gets me 800-1000 DPS if i get TC (which i rarely get) and if the Illy has all the shiny Mage Buffs on. Need Mana !! Forget that when i'm put in a Scout group, then i get effectively "Savante" and 1-2 other grouptempbuffs.</p><p>- A Troubadour. Gets me 400-700 DPS. The most if all the Wizard Support Buffs are on and i get JC regularly (which i get rarely, because there are other classes which get it too). I <i>definitely</i> need the Rose (Serenes Tranquill Serenade, ~35% deaggro) to survive, the Castskill buff to hit and the Manasong.</p><p>- An Inqui or a Templer. Better the Templer, has nice buffs and the Divine Restoration gets me a very good boost in DPS. I get them seldom, because the Plate Healers are put in to the Maintankgroup :-/</p><p>- Debuff-Classes in the Raid. A LOT OF. Brigands, Dirges, Swashis, Defilers... if there are less to none, i get resisted on 81+++ x4 Epics  with a lot of Castskillgear on (talking about 440 disruption / 420 subjugation without buffs).</p><p>Nice to have are a SK (Deathmarch) or a Paladin (Amends)</p><p>So, with a perfect group setup i can shell out a heluvalot Damage... but that rarely happens.</p><p>A colleague of mine asked me: "Why take a wizard who needs a perfect group setup which is built around him, when i can achieve the same damage if i use another class which i can put just somewhere in any group ?"</p><p>Regards, theriatis.</p>

[Yarginis]

Really it just all depends on the player. A good Wizzy can easily live up to where they should be on the parse. Although I could address the raid parses, I'm going to look at the group ones instead because the extremely short fights are often blamed for the Wizzy's "sub-par" performance.Last night we did an instance run with a group built for max burn speed. Guard, Fury, Toub, Illy, Swashy, Wizzy. 4 of whom had their mythical, and all of which were played by extremely skilled players. Group setup meant all the dps were buffed to insane levels, so as you'd expect mobs were dying probably faster than you have ever seen before. Everyone was going back and forth on the parses from fight to fight, as mobs were literally dying a well under 10 seconds apiece (sometimes literally in  5 seconds). A perfect situation for when according to most people the Wizzy would be expected to fall well behind. Even in these senarios however, which should be the hardest for the Wizzy to parse in, he came out on top of all the zonewide parses. Everyone was lower than what they were capable of because the mobs dropped so quick, but oveerall each of us were in the mid 3k to low 4k dps range on the zonewides, with even the guard comming in well over 2k zw.Clearly if there were any instance for the pace of fighting to drag the Wizzy behind, this would have been it, yet he still remaind on top of the overall parses. it wasn't that we were giving him a chance to start pre-casting his attacks either to make up for it either. Each of CoA, VoES, and Maidens lasted less than 15 minutes total (not 15 min engaged time, 15 min total 1st pull to last kill) so he had no breaks to catch up and prepare for the next fight either. If he was able to contine to top the parse in this environment, which should be 1 of the most hostile to his dps capabilities, while competing against other well skilled/equipped players of classes whom should (espesially the swashy) be better equipped to handle the quick nature of the fights, then Wizzy dps is perfectly capable of standing up to where it should be when placed in more reasonable and normal conditions that other players will usually face. (Btw to counter your issue about Wizards being screwed in long fights due to power, our Wizzy has at times gotten 3 or more full power manaburns off during 1 encounter, meaning he completely drained and refilled his power (which is in the WW top 10 i believe) at least twice during the encounter while in combat)

[theriatis]

<p>Yeah,</p><p>as i was just saying... get me a Troub and an Illu which FULLY Support me and thats a 1,5k - 2k DPS plus on my side. Put me in a group where i don't know what the .... i am doing here and i will outparse a healer (which much luck). The most other classes (even an Illusionist) are not that dependant as a Wizard to get their Damage out...</p><p>Put me in the wrong group: 2-2,5k dps</p><p>Put me in a good group: 2,5k-3k dps</p><p>Put me in a we-love-our-wizzy support group & single target & perfect fight (no resists, just long enough): 3,5-4,5k dps (without mythical).</p><p>Regards, theriatis.</p>

[ailees]

Of course Theriatis, you are perfectly with the right idea.Alexiiya - like so many wizards in this forum - is speaking about people who are able to get mythical. This means less than 10% of the players, let's say 15, 20 wizards for a server.It has been discussed already a lot : a wizard is totally unable to be a top DPS if he does not have the right equipment AND the right group. We all know that. <b>you will be a top DPSer if, and only if, you have a lot of time to play </b>to get equipment and be member of the less than the mere 10 guilds of your server able to enter VP and kill big named in there. If you cannot, and still want to be in the top DPS, reroll for an assassin. Or a brigand.I'm in a casual guild not too bad (we're starting VP), but I don't have the shark's shoulder, or Vault praetors or the choker and the robe from Terror, and very often in my group there is not even a troub.  No way to overDPS our assassin. I did that.. in T7, yes, I was top parser, never ever after 3d place.Now I'm far and will stay. I don't even whine or cry, but I admit that I will never be anymore in the 5 first.

[Skwor]

<cite>XFnarX wrote:</cite><blockquote>For high end DPS your top Parsers should be;Wizard / Warlock / AssassinSecondary and spike parsers;Swash / Ranger / Conj / Necro / Illus / BrigIf your Wizard isn't parsing over 3k zone wide, even for T1 & 2 try working on your gear and casting order. Wizards should be owning the parse even with the recent resistance changes. So I'm gonna have to agree with the populous here. Wizards are one of the best DPSers in game currently.Example of T2 DPS parse I took from my guild a while back (names were changed to protect the innocent.)<span style="font-size: small;color: #c6b647;"><b>Zonewide Trash DPS (20 encounters)</b></span><span style="color: #c6b647;"><b>Allies: (15:39) 49456649 | 52669 DPS [Assassin-Execute-35336]</b></span><b><span style="color: #c6b647;">Warlock 4305814 | 4586 DPS 8% 14:29Assassin 3339622 | 3557 DPS 6% 14:19Wizard 3333861 | 3550 DPS 6% 14:42Illusionist 3317015 | 3532 DPS 6% 14:19Swashbuckler 3242655 | 3453 DPS 6% 14:31Assassin 2900429 | 3089 DPS 5% 13:17Necromancer 2872193 | 3059 DPS 5% 14:25</span></b></blockquote><p>I can't find anything to agree with in your post. I easily get 3k zonewide t1 and t2 however Assassins, Rangers, Brigs are easily getting close and sometimes above 4k. So it doesn't matter that a wzard does 3+k. Also Swashies and Conj's and Necros are easily even parse with me. Nope wizards are not currently TIER 1 DPS. Not when other classes are getting 4 k in zones you think 3k as acceptable for a wizard.</p><p>As far as agreeing with the populous please check out the MAGE DPS thread or the Caster resist thread. The populous of tier 1 CLOTH dps believes we are seriously lacking on the parse in the current state of the game.</p><p>And enough with the better player / spell order. If you don't change your spell order and two patches reduce your DPS by nearly 20% that is a nerf plain and simple. There was no f'n way wizards where 20% overpowered! Period! Assasssins are doing more raid DPS than wizards ever where. FYI if you use EQ Flames wizard spell order as listed in the wizard DPS thread you will never top a parse but it is a good start to understanding what is required.</p>

[Tanit]

<cite>ailees wrote:</cite><blockquote>Of course Theriatis, you are perfectly with the right idea.Alexiiya - like so many wizards in this forum - is speaking about people who are able to get mythical. This means less than 10% of the players, let's say 15, 20 wizards for a server.It has been discussed already a lot : a wizard is totally unable to be a top DPS if he does not have the right equipment AND the right group. We all know that. <b>you will be a top DPSer if, and only if, you have a lot of time to play </b>to get equipment and be member of the less than the mere 10 guilds of your server able to enter VP and kill big named in there. If you cannot, and still want to be in the top DPS, reroll for an assassin. Or a brigand.I'm in a casual guild not too bad (we're starting VP), but I don't have the shark's shoulder, or Vault praetors or the choker and the robe from Terror, and very often in my group there is not even a troub.  No way to overDPS our assassin. I did that.. in T7, yes, I was top parser, never ever after 3d place.Now I'm far and will stay. I don't even whine or cry, but I admit that I will never be anymore in the 5 first.</blockquote>While it is true that gear helps a lot, a wizard will most likely have the same quality of gear as, for example, the scouts. So that's not really a good excuse for being low on the parser tbh. Although, i suppose not having a troub is.

[Gorkk00]

<cite>Tanith_ wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ailees wrote:</cite><blockquote>Of course Theriatis, you are perfectly with the right idea.Alexiiya - like so many wizards in this forum - is speaking about people who are able to get mythical. This means less than 10% of the players, let's say 15, 20 wizards for a server.It has been discussed already a lot : a wizard is totally unable to be a top DPS if he does not have the right equipment AND the right group. We all know that. <b>you will be a top DPSer if, and only if, you have a lot of time to play </b>to get equipment and be member of the less than the mere 10 guilds of your server able to enter VP and kill big named in there. If you cannot, and still want to be in the top DPS, reroll for an assassin. Or a brigand.I'm in a casual guild not too bad (we're starting VP), but I don't have the shark's shoulder, or Vault praetors or the choker and the robe from Terror, and very often in my group there is not even a troub.  No way to overDPS our assassin. I did that.. in T7, yes, I was top parser, never ever after 3d place.Now I'm far and will stay. I don't even whine or cry, but I admit that I will never be anymore in the 5 first.</blockquote>While it is true that gear helps a lot, a wizard will most likely have the same quality of gear as, for example, the scouts. So that's not really a good excuse for being low on the parser tbh. Although, i suppose not having a troub is.</blockquote>Don't forget "not having an illu casting TC on you". From the parse XFnarX posted, I could bet easily that the illy had put his TC on the Warlock, hence why the warlock is on T1 (and the fact that it was an area with mostly multiple mobs encounter I'd say). More, all examples of wizards that top DPS provide an illy and only one other mage, the wizard, and hence the illy casting TC on the wizard. Most provide a troub to further boost the wizard, and most again provide the wizard with his mythical. As for resists, well... Maybe people should try to get to lower tier zones with a brand new wizard a see for themselves the insane resists there, as it seems the resists changes on raid zones affected pretty much everything around there for wizards <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />PS: and no, i don't play a wizard (well i've one level 25 i don't plan to play as an adventurer, but only as a crafter), and i'm not high end either; my main characters are an illy (61) and a dirge (52). And in all groups i ever get, wizzy gets on top (or close to top) only when I get to cast TC on them (sometimes there's two dps mages and i cast it on another one, sometimes I cast it on the healer when the group is low on healing ability and the healer has long recasts/casts on heals - e.g. an inquis - although it doesn't happen that much).Edit: seeing people say "wizzies are perfectly OK because they can actually be top DPS when having their mythical, and when in a group geared towards buffing them" reminds me of people who used to say "illys are fine, they are much desired, you don't do a raid without an illy" before the first expansion, when illys were completely useless solo, and were good only as breeze bots in groups (mostly later on in levels)/raids. That the wizzy needs his mythical and a perfect group setting to be T1 DPS is wrong, and says the following: wizzies should be made less dependant of other classes buffs, and they should be buffed for the 1-79 range - and it may require then, and only then, to nerf their mythical so that wizzies with perfect group + mythical don't become overpowered).Honestly, try to level again a new wizzy, and you'll see by yourself the issues of the class (and you'll see as well that everybody who plays other things than high end raids has noticed that wizzies are no longer T1 DPS, and are not as much resistant as the new T1 DPS - ranger, swash, etc., and hence usually don't want a wizzy in their group - and yes, wizzies tend to have more troubles to get pickup groups than others from what I saw recently).

[iceriven2]

Wizards are T1 dps... whether u all agree or not.  One thing most sorcerers dont take into account is there isnt an easy way to get that dps.  Takes a lot, there is no easy "button" takes casting order.. gear and knowing your grp/raid to get those numbers, and all that will change depending on the grp and mobs u fight.  so what works in one grp wont necessarily work in another.Key to high dps is your casting order.... casting your nukes.. dots in a certain order can mean the difference of over 1k dps.  in raids and grps. As a casual raider with only one piece of raid loot... in grp i can average 2-2.5k, in raids 3.5-5k.  I dont have a ton of masters or uber loot... want to take a look its liam on najena server, actually missing a lot of good  instance loot , whichi have no luck in getting.  if your having trouble... look at your casting order... if things die too fast dont cast the long dots or dumbfires... adapt to your grp/raid.  Next thing that will add a [Removed for Content] load of dps is a illy and troub... they are your bbf's in raid... lie cheat and steel to get them in your grp.   But also be active and get the good gear and try for master that all helps... just not as much as the casting order illy/troub though. Also the raids over all dps will effect yours.  if your the only good dpser and the raids zonewide is like 20k then u wont be doing the numbers i mentions... if the raid does over 40k then u can.... and most hardcore raids do even more..Just try to remember it all take work to be t1 dps, u have to put a lot of thought and effort into it. 

[Creyzee]

<p> I have seen some sweet dps from our brigands.     </p>

[SacDaddy420]

Wizard DPS is fine.  I recently joined the best guild on my server and I am in the top 3 of the Zonewides almost every night.  Everyone here has pretty much all the loot you could ask for.  Avatar...trak...full VP sets...I have like T1 gear.   oh   AND my new set pants  (huzzah!)The assassin is a beast who usually tops the zonewide.   Yea, hes [Removed for Content] good....and hes got the new resplendant rainment and all the sweetest gear possible.  I'd say hes ~ 6K at the end of every nightThe other scouts are all [Removed for Content] good as well...and almost equally geared.   2 rangers, swash, brig..etc..pretty much everyone here lives up to the hype.Then theres me with my heroic instance gear rockin 5K zonewides.And it will only go up.  All i need is time, baby <3Dont mess with the wizards, we are where we want to be.  It takes time, skill, knowledge, a million deaths, gear and love to be the best.  You reap what you sow.

[Skwor]

<cite>SacDaddy420 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wizard DPS is fine.  I recently joined the best guild on my server and I am in the top 3 of the Zonewides almost every night.  Everyone here has pretty much all the loot you could ask for.  Avatar...trak...full VP sets...I have like T1 gear.   oh   AND my new set pants  (huzzah!)The assassin is a beast who usually tops the zonewide.   Yea, hes [I cannot control my vocabulary] good....and hes got the new resplendant rainment and all the sweetest gear possible.  I'd say hes ~ 6K at the end of every nightThe other scouts are all [I cannot control my vocabulary] good as well...and almost equally geared.   2 rangers, swash, brig..etc..pretty much everyone here lives up to the hype.Then theres me with my heroic instance gear rockin 5K zonewides.And it will only go up.  All i need is time, baby <3Dont mess with the wizards, we are where we want to be.  It takes time, skill, knowledge, a million deaths, gear and love to be the best.  You reap what you sow.</blockquote><p>SO let me get this right, becuase you usually make the 3rd slot on the parse therefore all wizards are perfect and there is no problem. Uhmmm ok, well that settles it, SoE don't bother gathing any cross server thoundreds of toons data becuase, well one wizard has somehow managed to be representitive of all wizards in the game and has the absolute best most perfect understanding of where the class should be. </p><p>Sorry I disagree, for one thing you should be competiting with the Assassin not always third place!! Assassin's and wizards are supposed to be the top of tier one. So placing third routinely either supports a fix that is needed or an improvement needed on your part. <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">No single class should always top the parse in all situations for all applicable raid levels</span></b>, at this point in the game one class actually does and that class is the assassin. Therefore, YES something is broke and as I don't believe in nerfs that only leaves fixing the wizard.</p>

[G'ville]

<p>One of my friends plays a wizzy.  IMO plays the class very well.  The other night in raid all things being equal, a ranger friend consistently out DPSed her.  Got to the point where the ranger asked her if anything was wrong.  Nothing wrong she just did not get the chance to have Illy buffs or a troub, but then again neither did the ranger.  </p><p>The well out fitted Brig and Swash were consistently the best DPS with 4 wizards in raid.  Even the Guard MT stayed in the top six of the parse.</p><p>Occaisionally getting beat by the Illy in raid for DPS.  There is something wrong when a utility class beats a DPS class on the parse.</p><p>Our guild has gotten to the point that if they had the option to replace all the wizards for scouts they would.</p><p>I ask SOE to please look at how you can tweak the class, maybe with self buffs of some kind, (shorten cast times, hate transfers, or anything else you can think of) .  Get them back to where they compete with Rog consistently.  </p><p>My friend is getting a really strong feeling that she is no longer wanted for raids or groups and thinking of retiring the her Wiz.  I am pretty sure she will retire from the game when that happens. </p>

[SacDaddy420]

Dont think you fully understand what i said there. Might want to work on your reading comprehension. Also, I have been playing and posting about this class since 05. Yea, i feel i can talk freely and competantly about wizards and where they stand. However i will agree with you about the assassins, I am envious. Though I look forward to the time we have equal gear since I am right on his heals in my half-good / half lousy setup. Also, you need to cut it with the placing third bit you've interjected into almost every sentence. Did I say that? no. I said top three consistantly. You understand the difference? SOE doesnt need to do anything to our class. Thanks for trying to get an easy button however to make up for your lack of skill.  And grats on not realizing that other players can be extremely skilled themselves playing different classes than you.  But hey, we're wizards...we should just win automatically....AMIRITE?!Get your head straight fool.

[iceriven2]

just to give you guys an idea on how IMPORTANT casting order is... let me tell u a story....In my former guild we had 5 raid rdy wizards, we raided casually... 3 nites a week,.  During the days of EOF I and one other wizard held the highest raid attendance with me.  Lets say I am wizard A other wizard  is wizard B.  Now we had one other who was luckier then us both. She... great women, had all the luck and managed to have the most eof raid loot among wizards in our guild, while I had the least...only 2 eof raid items. she had 6-7 items.  Wizard A... me parsed 2-3k during eof....  She wizard C parsed 600-1k.   while wizard B had a slightly off casting order and MB instead of fire/ice AA's parsed 1.5-2k.  There the numbers...  casting order is VERY important..... if you are being outparsed by a scout for more then 1k dps.... try a new casting order... you will be amazed on the changes....

[Gorkk00]

<cite>iceriven2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>just to give you guys an idea on how IMPORTANT casting order is... let me tell u a story....In my former guild we had 5 raid rdy wizards, we raided casually... 3 nites a week,.  During the days of EOF I and one other wizard held the highest raid attendance with me.  Lets say I am wizard A other wizard  is wizard B.  Now we had one other who was luckier then us both. She... great women, had all the luck and managed to have the most eof raid loot among wizards in our guild, while I had the least...only 2 eof raid items. she had 6-7 items.  Wizard A... me parsed 2-3k during eof....  She wizard C parsed 600-1k.   while wizard B had a slightly off casting order and MB instead of fire/ice AA's parsed 1.5-2k.  There the numbers...  casting order is VERY important..... if you are being outparsed by a scout for more then 1k dps.... try a new casting order... you will be amazed on the changes....</blockquote>Though, why then rogues/pred consistently out DPS wizards? Do you suppose that there's next to no good wiz, and that next to all rogues are great players? Or maybe rogues/pred can get all those DPS without much effort put into casting order? In any way, there's something foobar considering that rogues/pred can cast on the move, and they are in leather/chain armour with much more avoidance, not cloth.Besides, here again, saying "i've no issue to compete in T8 raids, so wizzies are right accross the board" is quite narrow minded, mind you. There's things besides T8 raiding.And the fact that some guilds (and not just one isolated) is considering replacing wizards (well warlocks as well) in their raids by scouts (or rather rogues/preds) should tell something, don't you think? And what it tells is definitely not that wizards are right like they are now, but rather the opposite <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Sure, casting order is important, gear is important, and overall player skill is important. But the fact that you need a very well geared wizard played by a very competent player and with no mistakes on casting order to compare to roughly any rogue/predator who pays attention to whats going on is wrong. Give wizzies casting on the run and leather/chain armour (say leather like the ranger who is at ranged as well, at even more range than sorcerers by the way) with scouts avoidance and then it'll be ok then i could say wizzies are good as they are to have to be perfect to compete to a rogue/pred who is far from perfect.

[Skwor]

<cite>SacDaddy420 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dont think you fully understand what i said there. Might want to work on your reading comprehension. Also, I have been playing and posting about this class since 05. Yea, i feel i can talk freely and competantly about wizards and where they stand.However i will agree with you about the assassins, I am envious. Though I look forward to the time we have equal gear since I am right on his heals in my half-good / half lousy setup.Also, you need to cut it with the placing third bit you've interjected into almost every sentence. Did I say that? no. I said top three consistantly. You understand the difference? SOE doesnt need to do anything to our class. Thanks for trying to get an easy button however to make up for your lack of skill.  And grats on not realizing that other players can be extremely skilled themselves playing different classes than you.  But hey, we're wizards...we should just win automatically....AMIRITE?!Get your head straight fool.</blockquote><p>" I recently joined the best guild on my server and I am in the top 3 of the Zonewides almost every night." </p><p>Well If you place in the top three every night but not the top one or two it is very reasonable conclude you are THIRD! Try working on your writing skills, my reading is just fine [Removed for Content] (since you see it fit to call me the fool).</p><p> Number 2, I have raided since the begining of EQ1 playing high end and and since the beginning of EQ2 also playing high end  (though not continously). So I guess by your logic I am even more qualified than you to post about wizards DPS( I have always been a wizard).</p><p>From EQ Flames to many posts here it has been easily established that melee owns all raids yellow and below, now they also own orange. From your own post melee outdoes you and you will find your upgrades won't make you comnpetitive. So I say again how can it be justified that one class owns the top slot in all raid enviroments on all raid levels and be more survivable and yet be balanced?? You are in for a big surprise if you are in a high end guild. Talk is of dropping wizards (at least not recruiting them anymore) in favor for scouts. This does not speak to a working class.</p><p> Here is a shocker, I also parse in the top threee (ALL THE TIME), This isn't new to me at all, grats on finally joining a high end guild, now get some time on the pond. Wizards should be competing with assassins for the top slot and that isn't happening. That is not something I made up, that is SoE's own position when they announced tiered DPS </p>

[daray]

<cite>Skwor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Wizards should be competing with assassins for the top slot and that isn't happening. That is not something I made up, that is SoE's own position when they announced tiered DPS </blockquote>This is actually a somewhat valid point, but really, do you expect anything else considering that the dev in charge of combat mechanics plays an assassin in a raid guild?The issue here is 2-fold:1) The duration of fights. Most trash encounters now die in approx 20-30 seconds. The majority of an assassin's damage comes from their CAs, and by design, they are able to unload all of their CAs very fast for huge spike dps. This skews the parses in their favor by a huge margin (with regular 11-13k single target parses), and this obviously reflects on the zonewides.2) The recent changes to spell mitigation (WIS) on mobs, and the subsequent boost to melee hit rates in the update after. GU43 broke hit rates for mages, and reduced the average damage that our spells deal when they do land by a significant margin. This was to try to bring our dps in-line with melee dps on orange mobs. GU44 then saw a boost to melee hit rates across the board and it does not appear that mob mitigation vs spell damage was changed to compensate. So now we are in a situation where we see 50/50 hit rates in the opening ~10-15s of a fight (at capped disruption) until sufficient debuffs can be applied, and even then, our average damage is down due to higher WIS/spell mitigation on the mobs. For a class that needs to be continually casting and dealing damage from the outset, this isnt a very good combination for us - and something is obviously not right when i see our assassins with higher overall hit rates than me.Melee hit rates > Spell hit rates on orange con mobs now, and this difference only grows as you fight yellow, white, blue, green con encounters because of the way the 2 hit-rate types scale across level con ranges - and SoH trash highlights this.The only scenario you start to see some better balance is on long duration fights - where spike dps potential affects the overall parse to a lesser degree, and there are sufficient debuffs stacked and maintained on the encounter for the full duration.

[SacDaddy420]

I aint argueing with you skwor, and i sure as hell aint needing to prove myself anywhere.   I do actually agree with you....melee owns right now.  But I'm not gonna scream and shout at the moment, cuz like you should know too, having played longer than me, the pendulum swings both ways.    Melee has their time right now.  We will have ours again soon.Edit, sorry about the angry tone in my previous posts.  Lets stick to the issues here.

[ailees]

I can't agree more.In last expansion I was every time in the top 3, sometimes first, sometimes 3.Right now I'm no more, <u>of course in my own guild</u> ; I went to <b>PU group</b>s those last days with players from guild raiding T1/T2 and I could easily be top DPS even against an assassin ; with the horrible task to be obliged to slow down because even if I have been training a lot for a long time, I'm not really good at tanking in ROK instances <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I hope (and bet) that one day the pendulum will come back on our side. P.S. for the first time in my life I've been invited with a group of 5 players from 2 top guilds of our server. We ain't playing at all in the same world ... I was like a little girl with adults...

[theriatis]

<cite>SacDaddy420 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wizard DPS is fine.  I recently joined the best guild on my server and I am in the top 3 of the Zonewides almost every night.  Everyone here has pretty much all the loot you could ask for.  Avatar...trak...full VP sets...I have like T1 gear.   oh   AND my new set pants  (huzzah!)The assassin is a beast who usually tops the zonewide.   Yea, hes [I cannot control my vocabulary] good....and hes got the new resplendant rainment and all the sweetest gear possible.  I'd say hes ~ 6K at the end of every nightThe other scouts are all [I cannot control my vocabulary] good as well...and almost equally geared.   2 rangers, swash, brig..etc..pretty much everyone here lives up to the hype.Then theres me with my heroic instance gear rockin 5K zonewides.And it will only go up.  All i need is time, baby <3Dont mess with the wizards, we are where we want to be.  It takes time, skill, knowledge, a million deaths, gear and love to be the best.  You reap what you sow.</blockquote><p>Hi,</p><p>I'm always eager to learn, how do you do a 5k zonewide with Heroic Gear ? I struggle with 3,5k (TPR) if i have Illy and Troub, 4k if i get those exclusively, a plate tank with Divine Restoration and a SK with Deathmarch / Paladin with Amends...</p><p>Just have a look at my Gear (Server: Valor, Name: Mandragore) in eq2players and tell me what i can do more. We're just raiding T3 (not killed Leviathan yet, but soon <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> with a little SoH once in a while.You can also PM me or just reply in the Thread.</p><p>Casting Order:</p><p>(Single Mobs) Starting with the Debuff (Ice Spears A3) and trying to keep it up, for longer Fights i try to get the most of Ice Nova (yes, M1 /w T7 Set Pants), Ball of Magma (M1), Heatwave (A3) and Storming Tempest (M1). Sometimes i use the Ice Transform / Ice Proc Combo (don't know the exact names). In between as Time permits I'll Fission (M1) and get the DoT (Ro's Spiral ? A3) out, and if i have even more time on the hands, Ro's Furnace (A3) and Exothermicity (M1). No Protofire, because on Raids it does absolutely nothing for DPS (says ACT!).</p><p>Regards, theriatis.</p>

[Leucippus]

Sigh-Leucippus

[Creyzee]

<p>Wizards are too high maintenance and require too many other classes to be on top. If the raid is equally equiped, regardless of tier, you better hope you have a troub and illy if you want to be in the top 3. Where are all the troubs? How about SOE make that class more fun to play! How many guilds have troub bots? /raise hand</p><p>Lately our top 2 have been an Assassin (no problem) and a brigand. They are all good players but when the brigand consistanly has 6-7k zw something is out of whack. Our Bringand tanks too. He is our 3rd tank most nights. Yeah, he is an excellent player however... that is just crazy. </p><p>Temple of Kor-Sha 05/18/08</p><p>50118884 | 73704ASSASSIN 4525799 | 6656 | hit% 95.24 | deaths 1BRIGAND 4459521 | 6558 | hit% 94.18 | deaths 0WARLOCK 3905142 | 5743 | hit% 98.25 | deaths 1SWASHY 3805194 | 5596 | hit% 94.84 | deaths 0</p><p>His hit rate is even lower than the others. </p>

[SacDaddy420]

Theritis it sounds like your casting order is similiar to mine.   couple tips:   after GC'n the tank before inc toss up protoferno AS SOON as you can, followed by ST THEN go into you debuff, Novam BoM ...combo.   Your personal DPS is gonna be very reliant on the rest of the raids, however.  i.e. my 5K in a 50K raid would be 3K in a 30K.yea brigs can do really well, but in my experience its only every 5th pull or so...so there must be some long cool down timers goin on there.Scouts got some major lovin lately, but hopefully we'll be balanced soon.

[simpwrx02]

<p>I find the class I am most dependant on in raids to be a brig, if he is slacking /ninja as he does for about 20% of the start of trash fights, it is horrible resists as too few other classes debuff heat/cold, and my normal raid makes me cry for heat/cold debuffs, no mystic, no conj, warden about 50% of the time and almost never a ranger...  I barely stay above the warlock, as raid is full of nox debuffers, drige,SK( abou 85%), necro, warlock,assassin,defiler in OT group so they normally do some DPS and debuff nox.   I dont count trouby either way as they debuff against all magic, I also dont know all of the classes that debuff heat/cold or more specifically heat as most spells are heat based, it is sad when i can see a damage difference on Velium flames between the heat/cold aspects when i use Furnace of Ro. </p><p>Not really complaining other than that as I am normally 2nd on the parse even with debuffs lacking, the assn on top is simply killer and he has to slow down to not get aggro from the MT to whom he is passing hate.</p><p>But the class feels about right after the mob is fully debuffed 10+seconds into the fight, lower the wis back down to pre GU 43 and the class would be money or a bit closer anyways.  My parses vary between 5k and 6.5k and highest single target was 9800, however the 2 assns in guild have each broke 10k and can do it often.</p>

[Terreciel]

<p>Inquisitors have a small heat debuff too. Not sure why, they have one heat dot and the rest of their damage is divine. Also, Inkys aren't real common so that's probably not much of a help for you.</p>

[G'ville]

<p>SOE please figure out a way to gie wizards that are unfortunate enough to be one of a few sorcers in the raid more DPS.  </p><p>My friend who I know for a fact has tried changing spec, casts sequence, and gear.  Is regularly being out parsed by the Swash, Brig, Guard, Coer, and Illusionist.  Unfortunately my friend almost neer gets the troub, fury, or Ill/Coer for TC.  So they are always at the bottom of the barrel for DPS.</p><p>My friend feels like the only reason they get into the raid sometimes is because I won't raid without em, and I am one of their healers.</p><p>There are oer 3k 80 wizzards please pay attention to them.</p>

[Zyphius]

<p>I have to disagree with the "populous" here. All of you saying assassins are hitting 3k dps have some crappy assassins. In our "rag tag group of raiders", our assassin and ranger ROUTINELY and CONSISTANTLY hit 4k+. I routinely hit 2k+. NEITHER of us every have the "perfect" group.</p><p>The ONLY way for a wizard to "own the parse" as you put it is to have the PERFECT group every raid. Assassins do it on their own, as do rangers. I haven't been getting beat as much by necros as I used to, but they still beat me about half the time. Conjurers rarely beat me, and swashies and brigs either dont touch me (mediocre players) or sore past me (excellent ones) - and again, without the "perfect group".</p><p>There is NO REASON for wizards to only every compete with the "perfect group" while they can do it "just because SOE loves them". That is STILL imbalance. I should be able to match our assassin ROUTINELY, but I can't. Oh, and ALL my spells are A3 or better. And I'm halfway decently equipped (and I know what I'm doing - I beat most wizards that raid with us pretty consistently).</p><p>Finally, the new resist changes just made it worse.</p><p>Our damage needs to be adjusted up, not much, but a little. Resists need to be brought down slightly, not as much as before the nerf, but somewhere in the middle, and our cast timers need to be reduced slightly. Do those three things, and we will parse 4k+ right along with the assassins and rangers. Then all the bickering will stop.</p>

[mcavellero]

<p>Hey all, </p><p>I agree with the general vibe here.  </p><p>Does wizards dps suck?  No  </p><p>Are you going to be in the top 5? yes  </p><p>Can you ever beat the assassin or trade the top parse spot with him every so often?  No..</p><p>              -have a feeling this is where the class is headed...using GU 43/44 as an indicator.</p><p>And I am not sure we are suppose to be up there with the assa anymore, everyone is telling me that tier 1 dps standard no longer holds true.</p><p>Will things ever change for this class?  Nope...and I think Ive accepted that now and am leveling my 64 assa up now and also seeing what happends with AoC raid wise, or perhaps Aion...who knows maybe Ill fall in love with the assa class too(I prefer magic over stabbing people in the back though-/)  Hard thing is I love the community in EQ2 especially my guildmates and those are my shackles.</p>