Guardian vs Paladin

[BiggiEQ2]

<p>I have a question, and it's comparing the pally and guardian, so fairly different playstyles and classes right?</p><p>Gonna post this in the paladin forums too to guage their response.</p><p>Firstly - I WILL NOT RAID.  I'm not against raiding, but with time constraints I will never eevr get time to raid, so please when responding bear that in mind <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>So, I want to take up the role of a tank, and wanted to be good at it (obviously i know this is largely down to the player, but I am good!).  I heard Pallies are gods at agro holding?  Due to a agro transfer type skill thingy?  If this is the case then that's half the battle won, but what about mitigation issues?  Can pallies take a good pounding?  I guess not as much as a guardian as pallies get heals and wards, but then thay sounds like they make up for it.  Only reason I ask is that I have a beserker who I was gonna betray to a guard, but recently was in a group with an amazing pally and didn't know they coudl tank quite so effectively, he was a top bloke and a better tank!  So I wanted to join the club <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>How do beserker's fit into this equation (if they do/can)?</p><p>Remember, I won't raid and want to be good at group tanking and have fun - so agro control and survivability are the things!  Also consider there wil always be a healer of sorts around, I won't solo much on this tank.</p><p> Apreciated responses guys, just hope it's feasible to argue and compare paladin vs guardian issues <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Raahl]

<p>As far as Paladin vs. Guardian vs. Beserker in a non raiding setting; IMO they are equally good tanks.  Paladin's may be a bit easier to solo, because of self healing.</p><p>You might want to ask the same thing of the Shadow Knights.  There was a large exodus of Paladin's to Shadow Knights.</p>

[Fiercemind]

<p>If you are not raiding, I would prob stay a zerker.  Pallies are nice too.</p><p>My zerker rocks in any group instance.   Just stay offensive, and use the buckler spec and agro will not be an issue.  Pop Destruction , Open wounds (even Gibe if enough room to avoid adds) and even the warlocks will have an extremely hard time taking agro from you.  The pally has awsome snap agro, but he would even have a hard time keeping agro from you unless he put amends on you (that cheater, stealing your agro).</p><p>I'm looking at converting to a Guardian for MTing the upper tier 8 raid zones.  Gaurdians have better snap agro and better defense than the zerker, plus the Tier 8 is shy on AE mobs.</p>

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<p>Paladin is the easiest tank class to play. A bad or underequipped player can still do a decent job tanking with a Paladin.</p><p>Guards and Zerkers need to work harder for aggro and need better gear, the payoff is more DPS.</p>

[Kriddle Kraddle]

<p>Paladins = slacker agro due to amends. They really dont have to do anything to hold agro other than swing at the mob.</p><p>Berserkers best DPS of the 3 and best at holding AE agro unless the paladin has amends on a class that does AE damage such as warlocks.</p><p>Guardian most survivability but agro and dps wise is the weakest. </p><p>Thats the easiest way I can think to sum the three up for comparison. Honestly all 3 tank fine and can tank anything in the game. If you never plan to raid I honestly would not play a guardian because their abilities are best used tanking raid mobs. Paladin and Berserkers in my opinion are better at tanking heroic instances as their ability to hold agro on several mobs is better.</p>

[Faelgalad]

<p>What Kriddle says is folklore, not actual Game mechanic in my opinion.  </p><p>Leading an Raid, playing Paladin, have played our Raid Guard account for a couple of weeks and we had an very good zerker MT once, my experience is completely different. </p><p>Paladin: - Selfheal is worthless against hard mobs. To often interrupted, not enough heal power to stay alive. </p><p>- Mitigation and Avoidance worse than Warriors</p><p>- Higher AE Power as the warriors (Paladin has 7 Area Attacks), worthless in T8, since there are not much Group Mobs. </p><p>- Keeping Aggro no problem, snapping back only with Sigil, Rescue and Holy Ground (Lvl 80)</p><p>Major Problem: Low DPS for playing Solo/Group content. Only Class that need all 5 Attributes, while Guards are happy with 3 (Str. Agi, Stamina)</p><p>Guardians: </p><p>With Stamina Line they make insanse DPS with the right weapons. They get arround 30-40% less damage to Paladin. I have seen this in Kunzar Djungle, with both chars with Level 74 leveling there with my hand. The damage absorb of Guards is close to cheating for me as an Crusader. AE Power much weaker than Paladin. Good Aggro snatch skills. Guards have only one weakness, Warlocks. They can not hold an Warlock (Paladin is the only one keeping Aggro with Amend on a full guns blazing Warlock). </p><p>Strongpoint: Best Achivment choices of all 6x tank classes! Best Epic Weapon. DPS close to brawler DPS (if you have better gear).</p><p>Zerker: Make more DPS than Paladin (Stamina Line, Buckler Skills), better Mitigation. Worse in AE power and Aggro snatching after loosing it. </p>

[BoneSmasher]

<cite>Kriddle Kraddle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Paladins = slacker agro due to amends. They really dont have to do anything to hold agro other than swing at the mob.</p><p>Berserkers best DPS of the 3 and best at holding AE agro unless the paladin has amends on a class that does AE damage such as warlocks.</p><p>Guardian most survivability <b>but agro and dps wise is the weakest.</b> </p><p>Thats the easiest way I can think to sum the three up for comparison. Honestly all 3 tank fine and can tank anything in the game. If you never plan to raid I honestly would not play a guardian because their abilities are best used tanking raid mobs. Paladin and Berserkers in my opinion are better at tanking heroic instances as their ability to hold agro on several mobs is better.</p></blockquote>This is incorrect information.  Paladins have the weakest DPS of all tank classes, period.  Guardians and zerkers are pretty much neck and neck except on multi-mobs encounters.  And that is only true when the zerker's specials are up.

[cs01bw]

<cite>Faelgalad wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Paladin: - Selfheal is worthless against hard mobs. To often interrupted, not enough heal power to stay alive. </p><p>- Mitigation and Avoidance worse than Warriors</p><p>- Higher AE Power as the warriors (Paladin has 7 Area Attacks), worthless in T8, since there are not much Group Mobs. </p><p>- Keeping Aggro no problem, snapping back only with Sigil, Rescue and Holy Ground (Lvl 80)</p><p>Major Problem: Low DPS for playing Solo/Group content. Only Class that need all 5 Attributes, while Guards are happy with 3 (Str. Agi, Stamina)</p><p>Guardians: </p><p>With Stamina Line they make insanse DPS with the right weapons. They get arround 30-40% less damage to Paladin. I have seen this in Kunzar Djungle, with both chars with Level 74 leveling there with my hand. The damage absorb of Guards is close to cheating for me as an Crusader. AE Power much weaker than Paladin. Good Aggro snatch skills. Guards have only one weakness, Warlocks. They can not hold an Warlock (Paladin is the only one keeping Aggro with Amend on a full guns blazing Warlock). </p><p>Strongpoint: Best Achivment choices of all 6x tank classes! Best Epic Weapon. DPS close to brawler DPS (if you have better gear).</p><p>Zerker: Make more DPS than Paladin (Stamina Line, Buckler Skills), better Mitigation. Worse in AE power and Aggro snatching after loosing it. </p></blockquote><p>I have played a Guardian for quite a while... and have MT'd all the T7 and started T8, i can say from my experience that Guard's and Zerk's perform better on the "average" raid.. though there may well be situations where Pala's are better</p><p> As for Guards not being able to hold a warlock.. well that depends on both the tank and the lock... I have grouped with some amazing warlocks, and my personal trick is to use AA enhanced "moderate" -- which practically negates almost 40% of their aggro and gives them more avoidance.</p><p> Now with my pretty good gear - and the NSS with buckler -- i was DARING my lock to do more dmg.... reinforcement and my 2 aoe's while moving through the enemy groups does the job.. Im not saying its "easy" cos its not and innexperienced guards will have a helluva time.. but i found it to be some of the most fun..</p><p> and tbh -- with Intercede, stone sphere, and the guards group prevent death a warlock can tank for about a minute against most things, which is more than enough time for you to cycle taunts and win it back (also with AA lines my rescue is down to a 6min timer, and reinforcement almost at 1.5min)</p><p>Guards FTW</p>

[txleathertx]

<p>Oh boy...the never ending question...Pally vs Guard</p><p> Here's my 2 cents...I have tanked t7 and t8 on both my Pally and Guard. For a group setting...nothing beats a GOOD pally...despite the fact that a Pally can't dps as well as a Guard, the aggro control of a Pally is second to none. I would even say from my experience that the same could be said of a raid Pally...I had a swash in my pally MT group and he could taunt right along with me or for me if stunned. Pallies can take a beating, but their prevention of their own death sucks wind...If Divine Aura was re-done to take all damage, then it wouldn't be true. Pallies seem to have issues with the spike damage if their healers aren't on their top game...I don't fear the spike damage as much on the guard. For the most part, Pally heals work great for a group...but in raid they really can't be depended on when needed the most. Pallies make the best off tanks...hands down....they can save a raid. I like both classes for what they have to offer...I haven't been a Guard long...maybe 2 months, but I enjoy the dps they spit out and continue to play him even for group...but I was a Pally for 3 years so the newness of being a guard hasn't wore off.</p><p> Since you're just looking for a group tank...roll a Pally.</p>

[Vlahkmaak]

Pally vs guard is simple - Guardian beats the holy hell outta the paladin until paladin slef heals.  guard uses neck heal to try to keep up but pally out heals guardian dps and wins.  Go go pally power.  except [Removed for Content] pallies which I pwn.  Any decent pally will destroy a guard.  Crusaders rock inpvp if they know what they are doing.  Any plate tank, scratch that, any tank, can tank the vast majority of t1-2 stuff.  Guards mit abilities make us better thereafter.

[NANEEJE]

Never posted anywhere but Pally channel, but here is my take. Pallies and guards have their place. A guard with instance gear is equally able to block/absorb a pally with raid gear. pallies will always own over guardians in most the heroic instances in rok down, due to utility of tank(block/absorb/ward), and remember a pally must be well geared to do this. Guardians are in my opinion better tanks for raids, better tanks for chardok/deep sebelis. I think guardians reinforcement is an awesome capability, as our divine aura is weak and sucks compared to that. We can definitely hold aggro way better, only cause we don't have to work at it, in a decent group, we don't even have to taunt in voes/coa/maidens. IN the end, guardians have way better survivability, you outfit a guardian in raid gear plus adornments, your set. But ask yourself how often you will raid... or how often you are going to deep seb/chardok. Guardians over pallies for survivability. Pallies over Guardians for utility / multiple mobs. IMO, roll a Pally for your case. Most who want to tank will want to raid tank, and therefore should roll a guardian. Good luck and have fun!

[Rahatmattata]

<cite>Kriddle Kraddle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Paladins = slacker agro due to amends. They really dont have to do anything to hold agro other than swing at the mob.</p><p>Berserkers best DPS of the 3 and best at holding AE agro unless the paladin has amends on a class that does AE damage such as warlocks.</p><p>Guardian most survivability but agro and dps wise is the weakest.</p><p><i><b>Paladin dps is weakest unless you roll with suck guards.</b></i> </p><p>Thats the easiest way I can think to sum the three up for comparison. Honestly all 3 tank fine and can tank anything in the game. </p><p>If you never plan to raid I honestly would not play a guardian because their abilities are best used tanking raid mobs. </p><p><i><b>Guardian abilities own for group and solo stuff. I don't see how they are "best used" for raid tanking... most of the abilities do the same thing whether you are tanking an epic heroic or solo mob... in fact you will get more out of your abilities fighting heroics/solos... the daze component on retaliation strike is best used not on epics. The root component of Immobilize is nerfed vs epics.</b></i></p><p>Paladin and Berserkers in my opinion are better at tanking heroic instances as their ability to hold agro on several mobs is better.</p><p><i><b>I disagree. IMO the 3 of them are on equal footing tanking heroics.</b></i></p></blockquote>

[Terron]

<cite>BiggiEQ2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Firstly - I WILL NOT RAID.  I'm not against raiding, but with time constraints I will never eevr get time to raid, so please when responding bear that in mind <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p></blockquote>It is slightly beside the point, but there are some quick raids.For example the first of the guild writ raids takes less that 30 minutes.

[Paleskinn]

Is there anywhere I can look up such information, Terron? I've seen bits here and there, and wikia's stuff, but not much really. And some raid zone pages are mostly empty, saying not much more than "zone in here, and brace yourself, for you're going to get a beating".