The Dangers of Buying Plat and/or Power Leveling services

[Greeblen-]

<p>Hello again,</p><p>For those that don't know me, my name is Rich Schmelter and I am the customer service manager for the EverQuest product line (EQ, EQII, and EQOA).</p><p>Before I get into the main point of this post, I wanted to make it clear that buying plat, items, characters, power leveling, etc, from 3rd party websites is against our policies and we remove any plat, items, exp, or characters from accounts that buy them and take further disciplinary action on accounts that continue to do this or are severe offenders.</p><p>Now back to the topic at hand...</p><p>I wanted to take a moment to bring to light a concern that myself and our GMs have regarding a growing issue we are seeing occur more and more every day; Compromised Accounts.</p><p>"Compromised Accounts? [Removed for Content] is that?" you say to yourself, head tilting to the side a bit.</p><p>Let me explain.  When someone logs into someone else's account and takes all their items, their coin, deletes characters, spams obscenities, loots the guild bank, and performs any other manner of maliciousness, CS refers to that account as a Compromised Account.  Customers often petition us saying, "My account was Hacked, hepl pls!".  In a nutshell, what basically happened is that the account login and password was not kept secure by the account owner or they did not protect their computer properly from malicious access. </p><p>As many of you may know, sharing your account information (login/password) is against SOE policies and keeping your account information secure is the responsibility of the owner of the account.  I've been with SOE CS for over 6 years now and I couldn't tell you how many times I've seen a customer's ex-wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend, brother/sister, mother/father/grandparent, roommate/guildmate, child/dog/cat (yes, people have claimed their pets deleted stuff on their account ‘accidentally'), log into an account and have a field day of revenge for some unknown wrong that was done to them.  That in and of itself, should be warning enough to keep your login info to yourself and not to write it down where others can find it or post it on your super-secret guild website that only a few friends have access too.</p><p>"So how does this relate to Buying Plat and Power Leveling services?" you ask.</p><p>Very simple, and here is the crux of the concern we want to bring to the attention of our customers:  The plat selling and power leveling websites are now actively compromising accounts, stripping them of everything (and stripping guild banks too), and using the plat they gain from this malicious access to sell to players.  We've been seeing more and more instances of this over the last several weeks.</p><p>We even had a case recently where an account purchased plat from a website plat seller, the account was later accessed and stripped of all items by that very same plat seller, and on the next day was sold back the same plat that was taken from their account.  </p><p>How does CS know this?  When we investigate these issues, we can track where the money goes.  Sure the plat sellers use different techniques to try to mask what is actually happening, but our logs record what they do and with some time we can see exactly what happened and take action from there.</p><p>The plat sellers and power leveling services are likely obtaining account information in a number of possible ways, be that in a clandestine manner such as virus's, worms, and keystroke loggers imbedded in their websites, or as obvious as saving your account info for later exploitation when you give it to them for power leveling your character.</p><p>I'm sure you are thinking, "What is CS doing about the plat seller/spammer issue?"This is a bigger topic and can best be addressed in a different forum post or blog entry, but in short, CS is constantly working with our Dev, QA, and Platform teams to come up with new ways to track, remove, prevent spammers, plat sellers, etc from doing the disruptive things they do.  As the bad guys adjust their tactics to try and avoid detection, CS responds in turn and counters their activities.  Heck, we even have a team of GMs specifically dedicated to investigating and removing plat selling/spamming/hacking/illegal farming accounts from the game.</p><p>As for this specific issue, when CS receives a petition from someone that has had their account compromised and is missing all their hard earned coin, items, etc, we do our very best to assist with restoring characters and guild banks back to the way they were before they were accessed maliciously and then we go after the culprit.  These investigations can take a significant amount time to do and we cannot guarantee that we can return you back to the exact point you were before this happened.  These types of issues also take time away from answering customer petitions for other important issues involving bugged quests, items, etc.  </p><p>The bottom line is this; the plat sellers and power leveling services, while never trustworthy to begin with, are now actively double crossing the very people that trusted them and have taken this problem to another level.  This also means that if you have shared your account information with anyone at any time in the past, you have put your account at risk for losing the rewards of your long hours of game play.   In my experience with seeing Compromised Account issues time and time again, no one you share your account information with will treat it with the respect it deserves and this situation almost always ends with a petition for help. </p><p>If you have ever shared your account information with anyone in the past or have ever bought plat or used a power leveling service, I strongly suggest you do the following:- Change your account password immediately and change it often.- Update your security question.     - You can do both of these by going to <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.station.sony.com/" target="_blank">www.station.sony.com</a>           - Mouse over the My Account link at the top          - Click on Update Account Information          - Log in          - Click on the Change Password button on the right          - The Secret Question/Answer options are at the bottom of the page- Never share your account information with anyone again.- Use anti-virus software, run regular virus scans, and keep your anti-virus definitions up to date.- Never, ever, visit a plat selling / power leveling service website.</p><p>These suggestions will help you keep your account information secure and will go a long way towards preventing your account from being compromised.  Also, not buying plat or power leveling will help reduce the problem as a whole, as without a demand, they will not be able to operate.</p><p>While it is our current policy to assist with these issues and to restore characters and guild banks to the best of our ability, please remember that we may not be able to assist with repeated occurrences of compromised accounts and that we cannot guarantee that we can restore you back to exactly where you were when your account was compromised.</p><p>Thanks for reading and I hope that I was able to answer some questions and help prevent this issue from growing further.</p><p>Rich "Greeblen" SchmelterSOE Customer Service ManagerEQ-EQII-EQOA</p><p>If you are interested in finding out more info about our EULA or Account Security Policy, please see the links below.</p><p>EULA:<a rel="nofollow" href="http://help.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/soe.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=12248" target="_blank">http://help.station.sony.com/cgi-bi...p?p_faqid=12248</a></p><p>Account Security Policy:<a rel="nofollow" href="http://help.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/soe.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=16231" target="_blank">http://help.station.sony.com/cgi-bi...p?p_faqid=16231</a></p><p>Edited to disable smilies. Twice.  =P</p>

[doug452]

<p>Hi, I play EQ1 on Quellious. I've sent petitions, /reports that are time-stamped, bug reports, and emails, complaining about the spam to buy plat. I always get back the canned reply saying "we're working on it." All you have to do is log a char on thats not anon or RP, and you will soon get a spam tell. I've found that going anon or RP stops this. It seems like someone has some kind of a program to tell who's online. I sometimes put them on friends list then see its usually a level 1 char in the tutorial. Its gotten so I just about believe that Sony is doing this to make extra $$. I can't imagine how Sony wouldn't catch these people just by logging a char on and waiting. This happens to me almost every day and sometimes several times a day, if I'm not RP or anon. I normally don't want to go RP or anon, its a pain in the axx having to do so.  I really wouldn't think sony would stoop this low, but it would be so easy to catch these people, and they seem to have a way to know who's online, that I really have no reason to think otherwise.  I'm sure it would take 1 person a little time, but sony could log 1 char on numerous servers and just wait for a tell. Thats all ya gotta do to catch them. Please convince me that sony's not doing this.</p><p>Curee</p><p>Gatere   and others</p><p>Doug452</p>

[StormCinder]

<p>Since it is becoming more clear exactly how these accounts were compromised, can we get confirmation that:</p><p><b>No SOE site that requires our accountname/password (forums, guide program, etc) was compromised and has been checked against the malicious code?</b></p><p>Without this confirmation, we are taking a risk every time we log into the forums.</p><p>SC</p>

[Gnobrin]

<p>Here's your "official word":</p><p>At this time, I've heard <b>NOTHING</b> about official SOE sites being hacked with any means to find out private information.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p>

[Junaru]

After all the finger points from the users it makes me sad to see SOE do it. I had a friend who's account got hacked and believe me when you tell you he is as straight as they come and never purchased plat or power leveling. So try and push the blame all you like the truth is normal people had this happen too.

[Raven_Ancient]

Yes 'normal' people are being affected by this recently. Alot of the times from logging into other sites associated to EQ2. It seems to me it might be suspicous that the same person/people who were DDOS'ing all the sites may also be responsible for this latest little development.Greeblen isn't pointing the finger at all players. Greeblen is simply warning people about the dangers of those particular services. They also go on to explain basic security principles such as not sharing your account and using antivirus programs and so forth. Though they may be finger pointing at all the idiots dumb enough to risk account bans and so forth in using power leveling or play buying services they aren't pointing the finger at everyone.They are just trying to help.

[dawy]

One of the things that is irking me about the plat spam is that just yesterday i rolled a new toon and on the queens colony there was a nice little froggy stood by his lonesome,so i nipped on my wifes account and sure enough within a few moments a /tell came through from this toon,now of course the spam filter caught the message and it was blocked,but IIRC didnt SOE ban any communication from the starter islands a while back?It just seems a shame that while the spam filter is a good and welcome addition to let them spam willy nilly from the noob islands kind of defeats the object of it all.

[Ama]

<cite>dawy wrote:</cite><blockquote>One of the things that is irking me about the plat spam is that just yesterday i rolled a new toon and on the queens colony there was a nice little froggy stood by his lonesome,so i nipped on my wifes account and sure enough within a few moments a /tell came through from this toon,now of course the spam filter caught the message and it was blocked,but IIRC didnt SOE ban any communication from the starter islands a while back?It just seems a shame that while the spam filter is a good and welcome addition to let them spam willy nilly from the noob islands kind of defeats the object of it all.</blockquote><p>Unfortunately they banned it from the Trial of the Isle accounts.  This was done in response to plat spammers making 25-50 accounts a day to spam people from.  However this does not stop them from getting fresh accounts and spamming people before the accounts are basically permabanned. </p><p>The worst problem is players new to the MMO genre may get the impression buying plat/power leveling is alright.  They don't read the forums considering it a waste of time and end up being jacked.  </p><p>Personally to me the biggest problem right now are the Plat spammers/sellers that are now "Hacking" into beloved EQ2 fan sites injecting malicious code into them.  Personally it is that right there where I believe the FBI needs to get involved.  </p>

[dawy]

<cite>Amana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dawy wrote:</cite><blockquote>One of the things that is irking me about the plat spam is that just yesterday i rolled a new toon and on the queens colony there was a nice little froggy stood by his lonesome,so i nipped on my wifes account and sure enough within a few moments a /tell came through from this toon,now of course the spam filter caught the message and it was blocked,but IIRC didnt SOE ban any communication from the starter islands a while back?It just seems a shame that while the spam filter is a good and welcome addition to let them spam willy nilly from the noob islands kind of defeats the object of it all.</blockquote><p>Unfortunately they banned it from the Trial of the Isle accounts.  This was done in response to plat spammers making 25-50 accounts a day to spam people from.  However this does not stop them from getting fresh accounts and spamming people before the accounts are basically permabanned. </p><p>The worst problem is players new to the MMO genre may get the impression buying plat/power leveling is alright.  They don't read the forums considering it a waste of time and end up being jacked.  </p><p>Personally to me the biggest problem right now are the Plat spammers/sellers that are now "Hacking" into beloved EQ2 fan sites injecting malicious code into them.  Personally it is that right there where I believe the FBI needs to get involved.  </p></blockquote>At least you cleared it in my head there Amana <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i thought i was losing it there for a moment But yes something has to be done but how any law inforcement agency can combat this is well mind boggling to say the least,as for your other point you are of course correct if people didnt buy the plat then they wouldnt have a market to sell to its a shame that these parasites exist becuase all they do is spoil our enjoyment of our game

[StormCinder]

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Here's your "official word":</p><p>At this time, <span style="color: #ffff00;">I've heard </span><b>NOTHING</b> about official SOE sites being hacked with any means to find out private information.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote><p>TY (and I appreciate the necessity of your <span style="color: #ffff00;">fudge factor</span>)  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>SC</p>

[Vonotar]

Plat sellers or not, you put your account at risk every time you join another site or forum and use the same username and password. Personally, I use a different password for every forum, website, game, online banking etc etc that you can possibly think of. Can't remember them all? Add them to a spreadsheet (passworded too if you share computers, oh and you do have a startup password and windows password too, don't ya?) In the end if you sign up to a lot of websites, with the same details, somebody will eventually turn out to be a crook and will attempt to use those details on other sites they think you might be using. I'm globally known as magnamundian, it doesn't take much of a google search to find the other locations that I currently/used to visit. If I was daft enough to use the same password on other sites they would easily google that I have a EQ2 account, at it doesn't take long to test a password on eq2players. So regardless of plat sellers, please please please think about using different passwords for different sites. Oh and try to avoid using character names/girlfriends name/pet dog etc...

[GrutusBrutus]

<p>Greeblen,</p><p> That's a good post and I'm confident that you guys are working hard on this problem, but these plat farmer/hackers are far more sophisticated than I think most people suspect.  Mine is one of the "compromised accounts" you guys are working on right now.  I don't buy plat or power leveling services.  My EQ2 login name and password is different than any login info I use for any other site and I have never given them to anyone.  I use an award winning spyware program and a top-rated antivirus and I scan my hard drive at least once a day, but somehow, they still managed to get into my account.  </p><p> After my account was stolen, I found another trojan that these premium antivirus and spyware programs didn't pick up.  I reformatted my hard drive, abandoned my old email account and changed my login info for every site I use, but I'm still terrified by the fact that I haven't a clue where that trojan came from and the fact that my antivirus/spyware didn't find it.  Every time I visit another site, I wonder "is this where those [Removed for Content] got me?"</p><p> This is going to be really difficult problem to solve.  I'm sure you guys have some creative solutions in mind, but if it were up to me, I'd simply try and eliminate the market for plat.  You might be able to do this by coming down like a hammer on the buyers.  If the word gets out that people who buy plat are having their accounts cancelled, I suspect the market would dry up in a hurry.</p><p> Anyway, good luck to you and your team Greeblen.  I suspect these guys are just getting started.</p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>GrutusBrutus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I found another trojan that these premium antivirus and spyware programs didn't pick up.</p></blockquote>I've found that these "premium" anti virus and spyware programs are far less effective than those that are marketed less. I've used Norton, etc. over the years. But, I've found that Avast Anti-virus which is free, does the job 100 x more effectively than these "premium" software packages.Anyways, I checked out one of the sites that had this "trojan" and my anti-virus caught it before the page even stopped loading. I feel bad for people who are victims of situations like this. But, I've been virus free for over 10 years. And I've only had one account compromised.. and that was an ex-wife who still had login info for the bank we had our savings at. My bad there for not changing the login info after the divorce. :/

[GrutusBrutus]

<p>That's interesting.  You're the second person that recommended Avast to me this week.  I'd never heard of them before monday.  I'm just not sure I'm comfortable relying on an antivirus from a source that has no legal obligation to me.  Furthermore, it looks like Avast only updates once or twice a day.  The one I use (NOD32) loads new viruses every 30 minutes or so.  Then again, I'm the one with the problems that don't seem to want to go away.  So maybe I'll look into it.</p>

[Ama]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>GrutusBrutus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I found another trojan that these premium antivirus and spyware programs didn't pick up.</p></blockquote>I've found that these "premium" anti virus and spyware programs are far less effective than those that are marketed less. I've used Norton, etc. over the years. But, I've found that Avast Anti-virus which is free, does the job 100 x more effectively than these "premium" software packages.Anyways, I checked out one of the sites that had this "trojan" and my anti-virus caught it before the page even stopped loading. I feel bad for people who are victims of situations like this. But, I've been virus free for over 10 years. And I've only had one account compromised.. and that was an ex-wife who still had login info for the bank we had our savings at. My bad there for not changing the login info after the divorce. :/</blockquote><p>I used to use Macafee *sp* anti-virus scanner and bought an off the shelf anti-spyware scanner.  However Those were swapped out when I put my computer in the shop to be repaired.  Right now I have Trend Micro Anti-Virus scanner and Webroot Spyware Sweeper.  </p><p>So far they've caught alot more things than my other programs would have caught.  </p><p>Another thing people must always do is setup a bi-weekly if not weekly scan of their computer systems.  Usually what I do is once a week or every 2 weeks is unplug my computer from the internet doing full scans.  First I do an anti-Spyware scan then I do an anti-virus scan.  </p><p>So far thx to those efforts i've had little problems and caught 1-2 malicious bugs.  One thing that does keep me safe which some people may not be able to do is I have 2 computers.  My desktop which is my gaming/work computer I only go to "Trusted" website.  This means i've visited them on my other computer, checked them out thoroughly and decided they are alright.  If all of a sudden I go to the site and my computer acts funky I never go to that site again. </p><p>Now for those people out there that have Nintendo Wii's I highly recommend doing your internet browsing/searching using that.  I'll poke/prod/search/surf the web all I want on that and using that Nintendo WiFi thing i've rarely had a problem if ever on my laptop. </p>

[squeakymills]

I Have Been Soe Games for so many Years i.ve lost count to how many games of there's And not once have i got hacked yet alone i run 2 Sweepers Also run my games on a Seperate Area of my system then my browser Cause most figure you have one hard drive i use old school split The system drive use system Utilities on that drive have D: with games and other junk

[mindygoth]

<p>The situation I have seen over these "hacked" accounts, that I have never seen explained is this -</p><p>Many people who reported what happened when their accounts had been hacked, found themselves kicked off the game, and then unable to log back in because their password had been changed.</p><p>When they went into this with CS they were told that a password change request had gone through in the last 24 hrs.</p><p>Now I thought in order to change the password on an account you need the answer to your "secret" question.  Which means the hackers have somehow picked up the answer to this question.  If this is truely the case, and this information is being "picked up" by trojans or keyloggers, then surely, if you haven't been hacked so far, the *worst* thing you can do now is to rush and change your password now, because this will allow the trojans to pick up the answer to that question, if you have such a trojan and don't know it yet?</p><p>Is there any tally between accounts that have been "compromised" in this way (ie. been hacked and had their password changed so the original owner could not get back in and disturb the process), and the rightful owners having changed their password and answered the secret question in the last few months?</p>

[Ama]

<cite>mindygoth wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The situation I have seen over these "hacked" accounts, that I have never seen explained is this -</p><p>Many people who reported what happened when their accounts had been hacked, found themselves kicked off the game, and then unable to log back in because their password had been changed.</p><p>When they went into this with CS they were told that a password change request had gone through in the last 24 hrs.</p><p>Now I thought in order to change the password on an account you need the answer to your "secret" question.  Which means the hackers have somehow picked up the answer to this question.  If this is truely the case, and this information is being "picked up" by trojans or keyloggers, then surely, if you haven't been hacked so far, the *worst* thing you can do now is to rush and change your password now, because this will allow the trojans to pick up the answer to that question, if you have such a trojan and don't know it yet?</p><p>Is there any tally between accounts that have been "compromised" in this way (ie. been hacked and had their password changed so the original owner could not get back in and disturb the process), and the rightful owners having changed their password and answered the secret question in the last few months?</p></blockquote><p>Well the problem is some people just don't set their "Secret" question because they find it a pain.  Personally to me what needs to be done is when a password request goes through a phone call should be sent to the owner of said account. </p><p>If the phone number of the account is being changed then the account should be suspended/locked and the person should have to call SoE about it.  </p><p>The main problem is not the people who get hacked by accident, but the morons that continue to use plat selling services and get hacked through those means.  </p>

[NakedChef]

The only way you can 100% eliminate RWTers is by placing a value on items and limiting by level the amount of value which can be traded between player and player. Of course nobody wants to see that happen.

[Barbai]

<cite>NakedChef wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only way you can 100% eliminate RWTers is by placing a value on items and limiting by level the amount of value which can be traded between player and player. Of course nobody wants to see that happen.</blockquote>Wouldn't work to well either I am sure the gold sellers have some accounts with 80's they use for farming they could just as easily use them to do trades.

[ZThoth]

<p>I would like to see an email sent stating that information is being requested to be changed.  Click on the link below to VIEW these changes, then select Verify or Deny.</p><p>My bank account does not allow me to change anything if I'm logging in from a different IP or PC, where's this level of security from SOE?  (You can change IP/PC's with a pho0ne call and account verification that is only in internal company records).</p>

[metacell]

The problem is, ordinary consumer customers forget their account verification info, or lose their email account at the same time they lose their password.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Azag@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>My bank account does not allow me to change anything if I'm logging in from a different IP or PC, where's this level of security from SOE?  (You can change IP/PC's with a pho0ne call and account verification that is only in internal company records).</p></blockquote>Oh come on now. This is your gaming account. Not your 401k retirement account. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />That sort of security costs a lot of money to implement in to an already existing system. And, it is even more expensive to maintain as it means a huge spike in customer service calls on an ongoing basis. This sort of security is very affordable to a company which is funded by billions of dollars in deposits each day. Not a division of a company that receives $15 each month from you.Its very simple to keep your accounts safe. And, the advice has already been put out there many times which is very effective if adhered to. Do not give out your password. Do not use the same password on another website. Keep your computer secure by updating it with the latest anti-virus and spyware definitions.Anything beyond those measures and one is asking a gaming company to take extra steps just to compensate for people's lack of common sense. And, to be honest. That's not their job. It was your parent's job when they were raising you.

[StealthM0]

A good real time scanner (av) like trends pccillin or even kaspersky anti-virus are both good tools to stop those trojan banners!But accts can be compromised with something as inconspicuous as saving information in an insecure area. Or a keylogger. I think though, someone out there has made some addon/plugin (possibly a hack) and me thinks this hack hooks eq2 launchpad and records login data.They websites got hacked theory is plausible, but I think you would find every member of those sites in eq2 would then be compromised, not just a few. Below is merely an example of how this could happen....You install newest version of lootdb from lootdb.com or is it? Eq2map updater? Not saying these programs are illegitimate (they arent both addons work excellently) but addons/custom uis, etc. can ALL contain keyloggers/trojans. Make sure you KNOW what you are downloading, and WHERE you are downloading it from. Fresh files always do a scan with latest pattern defs from your av vendor.Its a dang shame when you can't even play an mmorpg without scammers/thieves stealing things.

[Bloodfa]

Avast is fantastic.  Beats Norton hands down, as well as McAfee.  The "Home User" version is free, the corporate version is where they make the money.  Home version is their "Play the Fae"; people use it and recommend it from there. 

[-Arctura-]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I checked out one of the sites that had this "trojan" and my anti-virus caught it before the page even stopped loading.</blockquote>(( AHA!!! I Knew'd joo was a pl@t Buyer!!! *points finger and ducks*<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />---<img src="http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/Arctura000/Skree-sig2008a.jpg" alt="" border="0" />

[Seriwen]

I may be new to EQII, but I'm not new to the idea of RMT and account hackings. I still play another major MMO that has been absolutely hammered by stolen accounts, and I see that a lot of the same precautions are being stated here. However, I see a few that haven't been addressed in this thread, so thought I'd toss my .02 in the ring.If you are surfing the net and using Firefox, get and use the NoScript and AdBlock add-ons. Learn to love them. Make sure NO IFRAMES is turned on in NoScript. If you're a novice PC user, this may seem like a small inconvenience for a little while, but after getting used to it, you'll be thankful for the protection it gives you. A lot of RMT hackers don't necessarily "hack" your favorite community websites. All they have to do is create an ad that is distributed throughout the gaming websites that use commercial ad placement systems like Adsense, etc. The community website may not even know that there is an infected ad on their site until it's reported to them. All it takes to get the virus/trojan/keylogger on your system is for the ad to load on your screen. With NoScript and AdBlock, you won't even see the ad on the page, and this is ONLY ONE way that the RMT hackers get you. There are many other ways, but with good protection (anti-virus, NoScript, AdBlock, AdAware, Spybot Search and Destroy, good firewalls, good surfing habits), you make it that much harder for them to get you.If you're surfing the net and not using Firefox, get it and stop using IE. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[draxhellion]

<p>You know whats funny is i get no spam at all on my email none! And nothing from plat selling services. I just returned from almost a year being gone from eq2 and i signed up again..... and upon on signing up thru the station i got spam via email (not my eq2 mailbox, my real life email) from bout 4 different services. this is no joke either or a trick to bewindle soe. Iam a soe dedicated. </p>

[Jedediah]

the only thing i have to say about this issue is the plat farmers and sellers are in business because WE (i dont mean me personally or anyone in particular) keep buying the plat and one reason people feel the need to buy plat is because the casual player cant afford any progression items on brokers nowadays,gear,spells collection items etc

[Banadux]

This seems related, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohib...e_United_States</a>Once LiveGamer is bringing their A game if all servers went over to exchange I think a lot of these problems would go away.  Just my 2 cp.

[Odalia]

<p>If all servers went to exchange I would quit, I have a hard enough time finding my masters on the broker; when I finally do they cost so much it is laughable (actually it makes me want to cry).</p><p>You make all servers exchange servers and it will just jack up the prices even more and make it so people can't stay on an even playing field.</p>

[Banadux]

It's a simple matter of supply and demand.  If the supply of masters goes up then the prices gets low, when the price of a master is too low then it will be bought and transmuted for adornment materials.In reality having your server go exchange would lower the price of your masters.  You'll have sell oriented players farming nameds and flooding the market with masters regularly.  Right now on your server you have normal players buying plat, but instead of normal players for selling plat you have illegal sellers.  Even on the exchange servers we had some of this, they grind generic trash mobs with good drops to avoid the publicity and /report of excessively camping nameds.  The exception tends to be instances where they can pop in and farm a named, which is why certain levels of masters are so much cheaper than others.

[zaltar]

I found this thread quite interesting so I thought I would add my 2 cents.There were many games I had played in the past that were overrun with problems relative to virtual currency trading what the OP is explaining is exactly how gold selling companies operate as standard procedure .If a person is a customer that interacts with a particular site they generally have some type of key logger installed in their system , often times this can happen simply by hitting the landing page of a selling site .The gold sellers are obligated to meet their quotas by a certain deadline so the way that they guarantee this is to hack into a previous customers account that they sold currency to and remove what they find , then they place it in the new customers account who recently placed an order . This practice is more common in games that have stronger prevention toward farm bots that put a kink in the supply of the farmers .In one game I used to play the GMs during an internal investigation met with a rep from a gold selling site and they sat down and he demonstrated the process . He had the account information of a former buyer , he accessed this account removed whatever virtual currency was in it and then put it in to the account of a new customer all within a few minutes time . The botton line is that people who buy are sealing their fate allready and people who might be curious could be taking a risk simply by visiting these sites . The lame thing is that sometimes you dont realize that your hitting a bad site until its to late even if you didnt have any intention of doing so .Over the years I have found that the more common anti virus / spyware products like Norton , Macafee etc are not catching things that are hidden deep in a system and they also cause a lot of bloat and use alot of resources to be running all the time , I had the same problem with Trend and Panda as far as taxing the system .2 that I would recommend are NOD32 and Kapersky , although Kapersky uses alot of system it is one of the better products for finding root kits . NOD 32 is one of the best security products on the market .I would also recommend Trend Micro`s " Hijack This " for checking your registry , this will tell you if anything is going on in there that shouldnt be .

[TREiBER666]

<u><b>solution:</b></u>just give us an option where we can choose "who can tell us".Some kind of a Chat-Filter, where i could choose:[x] My guildmates can /tell me[x] A player above (e.g.) lvl 50 can /tell me[x] A player above (e.g.) lvl 50 from other servers can /tell me[X] A player in my group can /tell me[x] A player in my raid can /tell me[x] A player in my friendlist can /tell meIf any other player /tells me something he would get a reply like this:"Sorry, but i'm not accepting tells from players below lvl 50 !"no lvl 1 plat seller can "spam" me anymore. they have to lvl up to 50,or be in my friendlist/guild/group/raid etc.  For those people who are not interested in plat selling services and are angry because of spam, this kind of a chat filter would be a really good spam assassin for eq2. When plat sellers recognize that they can't spread their URL anymore, maybe they go away (faster). If SOE can't change anything, maybe the playerbase can do something with this chat-filter.

[Segel]

<p><cite>Isengard@Innovation wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>solution:</strong></span>just give us an option where we can choose "who can tell us".Some kind of a Chat-Filter, where i could choose:<snip></blockquote><p>that's so crazy it might just work</p>

[Dacarlo]

<p>Of course you could just buy LoN boosters and flog them in game for plat. Much less risky to buy your plat from SEO eh <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Timone-SoF]

<p>So, how is this inherently different than the new "station cash", except that SOE gets the money and not some plat farmer. I mean really, when you get right down to it, with station cash you are able to buy potions for real life money that help you level...which is really kind of what the plat farmers do (granted they are a lot more seedy about it and not totally trustworthy, but come on...)</p><p>Being able to buy with real money a leveling potion is just as wrong here if SOE sponsors it as if some off-shore random plat farming house does it.</p>

[Mimosa]

<p><cite>Timone-SoF wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So, how is this inherently different than the new "station cash", except that SOE gets the money and not some plat farmer. I mean really, when you get right down to it, with station cash you are able to buy potions for real life money that help you level...which is really kind of what the plat farmers do (granted they are a lot more seedy about it and not totally trustworthy, but come on...)</p><p>Being able to buy with real money a leveling potion is just as wrong here if SOE sponsors it as if some off-shore random plat farming house does it.</p></blockquote><p>I realize you have objections to Station Cash, however, this is really a stretch, and your post isn't really relevant here. You should keep your SC feedback in the threads created for it. This topic is about the danger of giving your account and/or credit card info to third parties. You're risking having your account and credit card stolen. Thats what is different about it.</p><p>In addition, all in-game items and coin are SOE's intellectual property. For someone else to sell it is really equivalent to theft. Suppose you created a really great piece of art, and you were very proud of it so you put it up on a website to show off. Then you found that someone had taken that beautiful piece of artwork and put it on their own website and was selling it to people. Do you think they have a right to make money off your work? There's no difference in third parties selling plat and someone stealing your work to make a profit off it. Although we all feel that we've earned our in-game items and plat, it isn't actually ours. It still belongs to SOE and they have the right to be the ones making a profit from it.</p><p>I also think there is a big difference between buying a potion so YOU can level faster, and paying someone ELSE to do your leveling. At least you are the one doing the work, even if there is less work to be done.</p>

[Timone-SoF]

<p><cite>Nuadre@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Timone-SoF wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So, how is this inherently different than the new "station cash", except that SOE gets the money and not some plat farmer. I mean really, when you get right down to it, with station cash you are able to buy potions for real life money that help you level...which is really kind of what the plat farmers do (granted they are a lot more seedy about it and not totally trustworthy, but come on...)</p><p>Being able to buy with real money a leveling potion is just as wrong here if SOE sponsors it as if some off-shore random plat farming house does it.</p></blockquote><p>I realize you have objections to Station Cash, however, this is really a stretch, and your post isn't really relevant here. You should keep your SC feedback in the threads created for it. This topic is about the danger of giving your account and/or credit card info to third parties. You're risking having your account and credit card stolen. Thats what is different about it.</p><p>In addition, all in-game items and coin are SOE's intellectual property. For someone else to sell it is really equivalent to theft. Suppose you created a really great piece of art, and you were very proud of it so you put it up on a website to show off. Then you found that someone had taken that beautiful piece of artwork and put it on their own website and was selling it to people. Do you think they have a right to make money off your work? There's no difference in third parties selling plat and someone stealing your work to make a profit off it. Although we all feel that we've earned our in-game items and plat, it isn't actually ours. It still belongs to SOE and they have the right to be the ones making a profit from it.</p><p>I also think there is a big difference between buying a potion so YOU can level faster, and paying someone ELSE to do your leveling. At least you are the one doing the work, even if there is less work to be done.</p></blockquote><p>Oh, I'm sorry, didn't realize I couldn't express my views on this open forum. So sorry.</p><p>And, for the record, I think plat buying/power leveling services are wrong also...I get that. I was just making the point that in the really big scheme of things, buying your way through the game isn't quite in the spirit of the game, whether done by plat services or buying potions with RL cash through the Station Cash business.</p>

[Necrotherian]

<p><cite>Timone-SoF wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nuadre@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Timone-SoF wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So, how is this inherently different than the new "station cash", except that SOE gets the money and not some plat farmer. I mean really, when you get right down to it, with station cash you are able to buy potions for real life money that help you level...which is really kind of what the plat farmers do (granted they are a lot more seedy about it and not totally trustworthy, but come on...)</p><p>Being able to buy with real money a leveling potion is just as wrong here if SOE sponsors it as if some off-shore random plat farming house does it.</p></blockquote><p>I realize you have objections to Station Cash, however, this is really a stretch, and your post isn't really relevant here. You should keep your SC feedback in the threads created for it. This topic is about the danger of giving your account and/or credit card info to third parties. You're risking having your account and credit card stolen. Thats what is different about it.</p><p>In addition, all in-game items and coin are SOE's intellectual property. For someone else to sell it is really equivalent to theft. Suppose you created a really great piece of art, and you were very proud of it so you put it up on a website to show off. Then you found that someone had taken that beautiful piece of artwork and put it on their own website and was selling it to people. Do you think they have a right to make money off your work? There's no difference in third parties selling plat and someone stealing your work to make a profit off it. Although we all feel that we've earned our in-game items and plat, it isn't actually ours. It still belongs to SOE and they have the right to be the ones making a profit from it.</p><p>I also think there is a big difference between buying a potion so YOU can level faster, and paying someone ELSE to do your leveling. At least you are the one doing the work, even if there is less work to be done.</p></blockquote><p>Oh, I'm sorry, didn't realize I couldn't express my views on this open forum. So sorry.</p><p>And, for the record, I think plat buying/power leveling services are wrong also...I get that. I was just making the point that in the really big scheme of things, buying your way through the game isn't quite in the spirit of the game, whether done by plat services or buying potions with RL cash through the Station Cash business.</p></blockquote><p>Two points, and then I'll be quiet:</p><p>1)  They aren't saying that you can not express your views, they are saying that Station Cash issues are not relevant to<em><strong> <span style="text-decoration: underline;">this</span></strong></em> thread.  There are probably between 5-10 different threads that are devoted to Station Cash.  You don't like it, everyone understands, but <strong><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">this</span></em></strong> is not the place to post about it.  This thread is about protecting yourself from having your account hacked.</p><p>2)  SOE controls the game, and by virtue of that, they are the final arbiters on what is considered the "spirit of the game".  We, as players, have three options:  a) We can choose not to partake in the methods that allow faster advancement, and ignore the fact that others are using it, b) We can choose to utilize the available tools provided, or c) We can quit the game and find a different MMO that suits us.  Simply put: If you don't like it, don't use it; if it bothers you so much, quit.</p>

[Tsunai]

<p>As others have pointed out, this thread has absolutely nothing at all to do with Station Cash and everything to do with giving your personal information to unsecure and unknown sites leaving yourself open to internet theft and fraud. Take the Station Cash discussion to the appropriate thread and drop it here or I'll have to remove all posts that have deviated from the OP's subject.</p><p>And in case anyone has forgotten, be sure and refamiliarize yourself with the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=411000" target="_blank">Forum Rules</a> as posting off topic is covered within them.</p>

[Kitsune]

<p>I do have a question. I am definitely against Plat sellers, and farming etc. Played a Korean made game with a US branch that were basically helpless to solve the problems of Sold accounts, Illegal levelling services actually active on our Server, and Farmers camping out Quest areas and killing us. So I have no time at all for that.</p><p>We have a Link up top to  <a rel="nofollow" href="https://exchange.livegamer.com/eqii/" target="_blank">https://exchange.livegamer.com/eqii/</a></p><p>This completely baffles me. I followed it out of curiosity. Please tell me what this is since it sells EQ2 accounts, and sells items and plat all for cold out of game cash. Is it a affiliate of Sony? I assume it has official blessing since it is on our Forum pages as a Link. Is this a Sony thing, or a sanctioned 3rd party firm? And why no mention of it in all this really interesting discussion?</p><p>On the topic of good, free AV software, I use AVG and love it. It has caught potential problems before they are more than potential. It also scans Eudora email program nd web sites etc. It has a smallish footprint, and doesn't hook into all your programs like a worm/virus the way the commercial products Norton and McAffee do, and is easy to remove if you decide to do so. Also has great Forums for help. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Nuhus]

<p><cite>Kitsune wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do have a question. I am definitely against Plat sellers, and farming etc. Played a Korean made game with a US branch that were basically helpless to solve the problems of Sold accounts, Illegal levelling services actually active on our Server, and Farmers camping out Quest areas and killing us. So I have no time at all for that.</p><p>We have a Link up top to  <a rel="nofollow" href="https://exchange.livegamer.com/eqii/" target="_blank">https://exchange.livegamer.com/eqii/</a></p><p>This completely baffles me. I followed it out of curiosity. Please tell me what this is since it sells EQ2 accounts, and sells items and plat all for cold out of game cash. Is it a affiliate of Sony? I assume it has official blessing since it is on our Forum pages as a Link. Is this a Sony thing, or a sanctioned 3rd party firm? And why no mention of it in all this really interesting discussion?</p><p>On the topic of good, free AV software, I use AVG and love it. It has caught potential problems before they are more than potential. It also scans Eudora email program nd web sites etc. It has a smallish footprint, and doesn't hook into all your programs like a worm/virus the way the commercial products Norton and McAffee do, and is easy to remove if you decide to do so. Also has great Forums for help. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>SOE used to handle the transactions itself for the exchange services, but instead now, livegamer does it.</p>

[Kitsune]

<p>Thsnks, but still not sure why it happens at all - I thought it was illegal. /shrug.</p><p>I line with this topic, I found this in a regular mail I get from Zdnet. It may explain how some of the hacking of account information is happening. Certainly CERT's fix is something we can all apply, and I have.</p><p>The fix is at   <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/techalerts/TA09-020A.html" target="_blank">http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/techaler.../TA09-020A.html</a></p><p>This is the article:</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2410&tag=nl.e589" target="_blank">http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=...amp;tag=nl.e589</a></p><p>"The U.S. Computer Emergency Readiness Team (US-CERT) has issued a technical cyber-security alert to warn that Microsoft’s guidelines for disabling AutoRun in the Windows operating system “are not fully effective” and argues that this “could be considered a vulnerability.”</p> <p>The U.S. CERT warning comes on the heels of live malware/worm attacks that take advantage of the Windows AutoRun and AutoPlay features to improve propagation."</p><p>If you follow the link in that article to a more in depth one on the background of this, you get this:</p><p>Link: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2235" target="_blank">http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2235</a></p><p>"The U.S. army’s recent ban on removable storage probably says it all, though one may wonder what took them this long.The vast majority of these malware samples is originating from China. Their functionality varies. It started out with online games password-stealers targeting World of Warcraft, LineAge and others. But over the last months, we’re seeing malware being upgraded to also spread via removable devices. They all make use of Windows’ AutoRun functionality.It’s boot viruses all over again. Some ten, fifteen years ago we faced a huge problem with viruses spreading via floppies. Already infected machines would infect floppies upon insertion and infected floppies could infect clean machines by being booted from. Microsoft reacted to this threat and with the introduction of Windows95/NT boot viruses started to die out.Unfortunately the current situation is worse than the one caused by boot viruses.The main reason for that is instead of (accidentally) having to boot from an infected floppy, pretty much plugging in the USB stick or other USB device will get you infected."</p><p>So this may well be a factor in the stealing of game passwords.</p>

[Spyderbite]

<p><cite>Kitsune wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So this may well be a factor in the stealing of game passwords.</p></blockquote><p>Possibly.</p><p>Nah.. I'm still gonna run with "I gave my password to my girlfriend/wife/lover/best friend/guild mate and I'm too embarassed to admit it". At least for the majority of the cases.</p>

[Kitsune]

<p>lol, for sure, but for those that didn' t.... maybe this is the answer.  Besides, taking precaustions when an exploitable are is exposed is common sense.</p>

[StormQueen]

<p>I want to point out a reason for NOT giving out your login/password to friends, guildies etc. They may have the best of intentions; I see it all the time in my own guild and so far (cross fingers) none of them have been compromised. Now here's why I say this:</p><p>YOU may have the greatest security on YOUR computer. YOU may not run to plat sites, download iffy programs and the like.  But can you be absolutely sure your friend/acquaintance/guildie doesn't either A. visit iffy sites, B. have poor security/antivirus programs, or C. allow their own friends/family to use the same computer to do the same things?</p><p>Once you give out the information,  you are completely at the mercy of chance.</p>

[Juravael]

<p>Well said!</p>

[Quaill]

<p>I know that some people may not like this possible solution, but here it is anyways. Some people play this game more then they live their own lives, some people play this game to relax after a long day, others to keep in touch with friends and just have fun. My point in saying all this is that to this day I do not understand why SoE doesn't sell plat, Now some people might think this is stupid or unfair to whomever. But we all play this game for different reasons those people that want to strive and be the best in the game are not going to buy plat, and for that they experience a richer feeling of satisfaction for playing the game. For others, let them buy their plat and do whatever, if that's how they want to play the game, they won't experience the game as others do but then again who cares it's just a game. I feel that SoE has done a great job at balancing the currency in everquest and made it stupid to buy plat but obviously the want is still there. By SoE selling plat they would eliminate plat farmers, because plat farmers will only sell so low and then it's no longer worth their while, Soe would be getting rid of the issue of plat farmers and putting more coin in their own pockets.....which i don't think they'd mind =P</p>

[Kitsune]

<p>Bad enough there is Station Cash - and have you read any of the outcry from players over that? - if SOE sold Plat to all the Servers, there would be an absolute outcry.</p><p>It would cheapen their game, would send a message to those of us who actually <em>play </em>the game, that they consider our efforts worthless against those achieving the goals of the game by paying hard cash for them.</p><p>You want to play by buying ready-made characters and Plat so everything is achievable in the game with minimal effort on your part - go play Lineage 2 with its Plat farmers and account buyers! I played it for 2 years on a US server and we hated those players. Apart from anything else, their arrogance to the rest of us was unbelievable. We were maggots under their feet because they had Money to buy what they wanted while we struggled to get 40 million adena to buy our L 40 Sword! Yeah, 40 million for a sword.....</p><p>Also these wonderful people had no idea how to play the game! They couldn't even use the interface properly, or play the charcter, know its strengths and weknesses, what it did on a Raid or in a small group. You could spot them a mile away. And who did they annoy to show them the basics while reassuring us that no, they had not bought their L 43 toon? Yeah, us, the other players.</p><p>So, no I do not want to see that player stratification hit EQ2 ever!</p><p>You want an Exchange Server, you got one. Don't try to convince us we want it too when we do not. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Kitsune wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Bad enough there is Station Cash - and have you read any of the outcry from players over that? - if SOE sold Plat to all the Servers, there would be an absolute outcry.</blockquote><p>I don't disagree with you, but it's also true that plat is pretty meaningless in the game once you're at level cap. Coin is tight early on, but unless you're a perpetual lowbie, you end up getting plat firehosed on you with nothing to spend it on. And there's few real money sinks in the game. Mounts, titles, etc. are all trivial now.</p><p>Once you've geared and mastered up, the only thing to really spend money on is food, drink, signets and repairs. You quickly end up with hundreds of plat, and nothing to spend it on except (perhaps) collection items. And of course, that doesn't actually take coin out of the economy, it just shuffles it around from player to player.</p><p>Edit: To put it another way, anyone who feels the need to actually buy plat in this game fails at life. Both virtual <strong><em>and</em></strong> real.</p>

[Kitsune]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To put it another way, anyone who feels the need to actually buy plat in this game fails at life. Both virtual <strong><em>and</em></strong> real.</p></blockquote><p>I totally agree with that. And I ma just getting up to the higher levels now so am having Plat for the first time. Till now it has been a real struggle, but not one I resented. I have enjoyued new kit more for struggling to get it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Zorastiz]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kitsune wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Bad enough there is Station Cash - and have you read any of the outcry from players over that? - if SOE sold Plat to all the Servers, there would be an absolute outcry.</blockquote><p>you end up getting plat firehosed on you</p></blockquote><p>I've never had that much plat and I have 2 lvl 80 characters?</p><p>Or do I just suck at this?</p>

[Ikke]

<p><cite>Zorastiz@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>Kitsune wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote>Bad enough there is Station Cash - and have you read any of the outcry from players over that? - if SOE sold Plat to all the Servers, there would be an absolute outcry.</blockquote> <p>you end up getting plat firehosed on you</p></blockquote> <p> I've never had that much plat and I have 2 lvl 80 characters?</p> <p>Or do I just suck at this?</p></blockquote> <p>As a soloplayer who plays VERY casual I make a lot of plat by just gathering and collecting shinies. So yes you get the plat " firehosed" to you BUT even the simplest item on the broker costs even more plat. The inflation of the prices at the top level is rediculous.</p> <p> (Edited to correct the worst spelling mistakes (In het nederlands gaat het beter <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> &nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</p>

[Zehl_Ice-Fire]

<p><cite>Quaill wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I know that some people may not like this possible solution, but here it is anyways. Some people play this game more then they live their own lives, some people play this game to relax after a long day, others to keep in touch with friends and just have fun. My point in saying all this is that to this day I do not understand why SoE doesn't sell plat, Now some people might think this is stupid or unfair to whomever. But we all play this game for different reasons those people that</p></blockquote><p>Part of this game is about earning the gold/plat to get the gear/items you need that are not drops. That is part of the challenge of this game.  If you can buy plat for cash, why not sell levels & aa for cash? Instant gear for cash? Instant Mythicals for cash? Then it would leak to tradables like rares & shinys for cash. </p><p><strong>The game would have zero challenge for those with RL wealth</strong>, just like the real world has little challenge for the very wealthy, pixel land is supposed to be an equalizer <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. The devs (and me!) do not want anyone getting things with zero challenge, look at frostfell, they made like 60 unique raws for the crafters to have to harvest so it would have a challenge to be able to find and carry them all when it wasn't even a place that should have a challenge.</p><p>Not everyone has this disposable cash, those who do would have huge advantages if you could buy plat, like being geared before someone else who is spending the time to earn the plat to gear up, or buy 5000 plat worth of collection items to get aas faster.</p>

[Kitsune]

<p>Why play the game if there is no challenge? What's the point if you can buy your way up the ranks? I never could understand those who want to do that.  You cna't experience the game doing that. One of the things I love is entering a new area for the first time and going "Wow!" as I see the landscape and the sunsets and dawn. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> I enjoy it as much as a real world.</p><p>Our Guild is small, we do not raid, so I guess there is a lot of content I am missing in the way of drops etc. However I recently read a comic about EQ2 and saw some pix of a Raid and it looked exactly like raiding a castle on Lineage 2 did - graphics turned to the lowest possible setting and even then you see yourself move or respond to keystrokes several seconds AFTER you make them because of Lag, and you're deep in a knot of overlapping characters and can't see a damned thing for everyone else in the way.. the screeen is partially obscured by spell effects as welll.... Hmmm if this is what raiding is, I can do without it, to be honest, and try and pick up stuff on the broker from Raiders with loot to sell, or do without.</p><p>Yes I could whine about wanting that content of drops for non raiding toons, like high level Masters which apparently only drop in high end raids, but I know that making it easier for small groups and solo players is not what I signed up for to play this game. There isn't a way to compensate those players, the casual ones, the small Guilds, and those who don't like raiding, without devaluing the content for the other players, and thus devaluing the game itself. So I accept that some stuff I will not get unless I make the effort to raid despite disliking it.</p><p>It's like real life - choices have consequences. Your life style has consequences, so obviously your gaming style choices will have them. So suck it up, guys n gals, and be realistic about it, eh?</p>

[Enna]

<p>To SOE / Greeblen -</p><p>Thank you for your diligence in reminding us silly players not to grow careless with account security. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>To my fellow players -</p><p>I know I'm not the only physically disabled individual who enjoys the illusion of freedom that exists in / through Norrath. If RL $$ was permitted to become a major factor in gameplay, that would leave myself and *many* others who are on limited incomes "out in the cold" with respect to our ability to play effectively enough to enjoy returning / continuing.</p><p>That is only one of several reasons I applaud the efforts of SOE GM's to curtail all plat vendors. I'm also glad to see it verified that they especially go after the eula-violators who commit fraudulent transactions.</p><p>People, please bear in mind that part of what makes Norrath enjoyable is that the realm is *interactive.* This means we, as players, must spend time and effort to make progress. Less time and effort = less progress. It is easily possible to grow if you have less time; it's just slower than if you have more time.</p><p>Fortunately, provision has been made to cause the journey - fast or slow - to be enjoyable on its own. Unlike many entertainments of lesser durability, there is a *lot* of content in Norrath for low and intermediate levels. It's not just about being whatever the current top level is</p><p>While it does grow gradually "top-heavy" in player population as long-term players' characters reach their maximum potential, even new expansions usually provide things for younger characters.</p><p>I am increasingly convinced that EverQuest is *not* "just a game." It is also a community that includes a virtual economy. For many people, myself included, EverQuestII is also a hobby -- the same way that many people pursue sports, or a favorite [series of] book(s), or a favorite TV show. It's not just "something to do" or "a way to pass time." It is also something to learn about, and dis-cuss <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />, and inspire.</p><p>If anyone is the sort of person unwilling to exert enough effort to actually interact with Norrath, then I would imagine that person may be better off watching TV - where their entertainment is offered to them "on a silver platter" and without any effort on their part beyond choosing the appropriate channel at any given time.</p><p>If anyone merely purchases levels /  awards / items because they chance to have adequate surplus cash out in the real world, such a person has actually accomplished nothing in Norrath. Perhaps that is the reason such players are so strongly inclined to boast. Like all other bullies, they recognize the hollowness of their own lives and abhor it; so they try to compensate for their own inadequacies by putting others down. Such behavior fails to make a favorable impression on thinking people, in any realm.</p><p>EQ/EQII/EQOA, like most other situations where a virtual economy exists, quickly cease to be enjoyable when RL $ is permitted to intrude. Partly because it disrupts that economy, but mostly because it attracts personalities that are not good for the community of players.</p><p>Plat scammers have also been reported to obtain credit card information from people... and misuse that information, too.</p><p>So fraud, and other harmful behaviors, tends to extend between both the real world and the virtual ones.</p><p>I'm glad that a few exchange servers are provided for those who want to buy their way through Norrath with real $$. That keeps most of those people off in their own realm, where they need not trouble the rest of us.</p><p>If ever a day comes when plat farmers and plat vendors are fully extinct in all forms of Norrath, I will celebrate!  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[MurFalad]

<p>I totally agree with Enna here, EQ2 is not a game where you need to buy platinum to progress anyway and if it was allowed it could start the slipperly slope where game designers were encouraged to make accumulation of platinum needed for game progress to increase profits.  Shiny hunting and gathering get me enough platinum to spend on frivilous things anyway, and are enjoyable activities anyway <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>One top tip though, while its hard to guarantee that your spyware/anti-virus will pick up every malicious script if you run Firefox then its worth checking out a free util called "noscript", if basically means that you have to ok each and every script that a website runs.  So if you don't trust the website then you are least can prevent it launching any scripts onto your computer.  As a side bonus all those flashing adverts can then be stopped too <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>A bit painful to start with using since you need to ok a lot of commonly used sites, but its good for those times when you just hit a link and find the site on the other end is a bit dubious, at least this prevents that site from launching anything on your pc!</p>

[Eqsasukei]

<p>Well since SoE is so concerned with dangers they should investigate some of thier devs in EQ1 and eq2 with giving secrets and GM items to certain hack companies who exploit their own company.</p><p>No Delay in EQ1, guess how they got it to work?... A GM admin ..</p><p>Admins are like some cops, corruptable and like a bigger paycheck.</p>

[Zhadowsee]

<p>I'm sure they would if you provided some solid proof. </p>

[juggalo0385]

<p>if you think its bad here go play Aion it is spam galore and bots/farmers run the whole game.  it will take you like an hour to complete a simple quest because you have to fight the bots and farmers off.  With the spam you cant see global chat because its is all gold spam.  That is why I quit and came back here and I am happy with my choice.  EQ2 is pretty solid and will remain that way.</p><p>Good job SOE...I have been playing EQ1 for like 8 years and EQ2 for almost 2.</p>

[Nanyea]

<p>great post... you only forgot to say plat sellers are the devil <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gennifer]

<p>Isn't there any way that SOE can find out who all the plat sellers or leveling services are and just ban them from the game? Maybe that's a noob question, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't think there were THAT many people selling plat or whatever. Actually, I'm wondering why there are any plat sellers at all. If you have a level 80 toon you can make your plat hand over fist just doing those shard dailies, the other Lavastorm dailies and the crafting dailies. Maybe I'm just missing something or don't understand.</p>

[Avianna]

<p>Biggest way to stop the plat farmers is very simple, <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>CUT OFF THE DEMAND!</strong></span> <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">If you don't buy it they can't sell it!</span></strong> If they can't sell it then they will spend their time doing something else to make money and not bother with spamming us all the freggin time! So simply put, any of you out there who has bought plat are to blame for this problem. you wanna buy plat go to exchange server and buy it there. Problem solved. If your account gets hacked because you were dumb enough to buy plat from a farmer then I say SOE should return all the guild stuff and tell you too bad and make you start over as well as ban you for a period of time for breaking the EULA. I think it is too nice of SOE to take THEIR time and effort that could be better spent on other issues to deal with your stupidity.</p><p>and that's all I have to say about that!</p><p>-Avi</p>

[Brook]

<p>I think SOE has done a great job in limiting the problems with plat selling sites.</p><p>It was asked why they don't just ban all the people who practice this sort of thing..its simple, they are paying a subscription just like the rest of us. Thats money for SOE. As long as there are people that want instant gratification there will be a market for it.</p><p>Hell tbh it wouldn't surprise me if they were in on a cut of the profits from it, but at least with the measures they have put in to limit it its not much of a problem as it is in other games.</p>

[StormQueen]

<p>     Like I posted last year, sharing account information is not such a good idea. Another risk occurred to me recently and since this thread has seen new life recently, I thought I'd throw in another two cents' worth.</p><p>     Most folks have a "secret question" in case they lose their login/password, right? And a huge number of folks now have accounts on Facebook and other similar "personal interest" websites, true?  Here's a scenario:  Someone wants to hack your EQ2 account. They know who you are IRL and find you on Facebook.  Does your "secret question" have its answer in the open on your Facebook page?  Be careful of things like this. </p>

[gankinya]

<p>     This is in response to a "bringing law enforcement into the picture". First of all most of the plat sellers are not from the US. Therefore the FBI, and otehr federal law enforcement agencies have their hands tied. That said all they can  really do is bring it up with interpol. If I had to guess it was probably put on the back burner unless a Major financal company got hacked or federal agency. I am  sure that is some of the plat sellers are from the US they are being dealt with accordingly like most hackers would be.</p><p>     Granted I am  no expert on the matter, but I am a network security specialist; and will say this. To all you players out there that buy plat or act irresponsibly knock that crap off. it is only a matter of time til your actual computer gets hacked and your bank accounts cleaned out, or your parents. In closing i'll say again stop it, and use your computer properly, do not down load music, gamefiles from bit torrent, or other shady programs because you are just putting your own networks at risk. If you do continue to act as such you are keeping IT guys like my self employed. Be safe, be smart, and be careful when  it comes to online dealings, and CHANGE your passwords frequently.</p>

[Mystara]

<p>Yesterday there was a new player that sat in Gorowyn docks and sent me over 50 spam messages in three hours time. I asked the others I was grouped with and they all reported something similar.</p><p>It's great that I get the little [spam] Click to view link, but in my opinion, once a player sends 5 or more of these, it's auto-boot, auto-suspension time.</p><p>I logged off and back in two hours later to find the dude was still there.</p><p>Seriously, say all of us work. The system <strong>knows</strong> a spam message when it's sent. Now add a little hidden counter that when player sends x number of these, they get insta booted/suspended.</p>

[Tyrus Dracofire]

<p>when i came back playing eq2 since dec 2009, i rarely see any spams, that one of reasons why i left last time, 2007 were the heaviest spams flooding the chats and in-game mails.</p><p>then 3 months later, some of eq2 wiki did have virus hidden in armor section pages, it made my computer misbehaving, and i was quickly forced to reformated, lost so many pictures and my 6 months of work on my Neverwinter Night 2, module.</p><p>by wiping my work just killed my project on NWN2 module, i gave up, and now staying clear of those eq2 wiki or eq2 wikia, doesnt matter, look same to me.</p><p>so i am stuck with less informations, walk-thru on quests, i dont trust eq2zam.</p><p>Sony need a safe officail website for players to get access on armor informations, quests and lore, and updated on what quests are broken rather than visiting other host sites that may have hidden viruses.</p><p>as these red named guys said, dont even go there or visit 3rd party sites, these are the criminals in my opinion, part of crime ring. it not just 1-person operation, there are group working behind trying to gain access to other players' accounts or finding bank networks, even seeking your parents or grandparents to exploit with scams.</p><p>these 3rd party site do have keylogger tracker and can find your emails.</p><p>plain and simple, just say NO!</p>

[Katz]

<p>It would be nice if there were an official quest help site that didn't have advertisements.  Those virus containing advertisements are a pain.</p>

[Seidhkona]

<p><cite>Katz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It would be nice if there were an official quest help site that didn't have advertisements.  Those virus containing advertisements are a pain.</p></blockquote><p>For EQ2i, simply log in and you shouldn't see more ads. For any of them, use Firefox with AdBlock Plus and you see almost no ads. Add a script blocker and you can stop just about anything.</p>

[Machupa]

<p>Its a easy fix. SOE already sells all kinds of junk like house items, pets, cloaks etc via sony gold so why not just sell plat as well. 100 plat =  ? sony gold</p><p>If they did that they would accomplish 2 things. They would make more money and Players would have a safe secure place to buy plat and it would put the plat farmers out of business.</p>

[firestorck]

<p>can't the names of the account owners that are selling it. this includes the business that is making the money off the players be given to groups like the BBB?</p><p>I know that some of the scammers are overseas. but they are causing trouble for a company that is using servers based here in America. thus they are violating American laws that deal with theft.</p><p>currently last time I heard. there is a bill that is to deal with scammers and credit card theft. as in online theft. I do believe if it goes thru. that the plat scammers are eligible to be prosecuted under this law.</p>

[firestorck]

<p>in those cases. the owner will just delete the char and created a new one.</p><p>what needs to be done. is to go after the accounts the scammers use to cut them off. as well as find out the cpu addresses of these folks. and stop them there. </p><p>since you need to cut it off at the source. not just the head(character). but at the body. kill the company that is doing this. and you kill the thefts at the source.</p><p>problem is. is that some of these companies are operating at times several "front" companies at once. what is needed then. is to worm them out of hiding.  and since all digital actions are a paper trail a mile wide. even spoofs have a paper trail that can be followed to the source. just takes a bit of work to do so</p><p>and since SoE's games besides being owned by the Japanese. they have a base here in America. which then makes anyone that deals with the game. under the various laws that deal with thefts like what is going on.</p>

[Wingrider01]

<p><cite>Elialia@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>in those cases. the owner will just delete the char and created a new one.</p><p>what needs to be done. is to go after the accounts the scammers use to cut them off. as well as find out the cpu addresses of these folks. and stop them there. </p><p>since you need to cut it off at the source. not just the head(character). but at the body. kill the company that is doing this. and you kill the thefts at the source.</p><p>problem is. is that some of these companies are operating at times several "front" companies at once. what is needed then. is to worm them out of hiding.  and since all digital actions are a paper trail a mile wide. even spoofs have a paper trail that can be followed to the source. just takes a bit of work to do so</p><p>and since SoE's games besides being owned by the Japanese. they have a base here in America. which then makes anyone that deals with the game. under the various laws that deal with thefts like what is going on.</p></blockquote><p>I think you mean tcp/ip address of them not the cpu address.</p><p>would not work unless the end user pays for a dedicated ip address, to cirumnavigate a tcp/ip block all the user has to do is two simple commands</p><p>ipconfig /release</p><p>ipconfig /renew</p><p>if their machine utilizes a routable DHCP address, if they use a modem / router, just power it off for about 30 minutes and power it back on, it will obtain a new ip address, block bypassed</p><p>Now anotehr fault for blocking - providers utilze blocks of addresses that they deal out via dhcp to end user's equipment, block the ip, the end user resets gets a new one - next person that gets it if by chance they play the game they are blocked. Block at the range of ips and you block everyone on that provider that plays.</p><p>If they utilize a smal block of dedicated IP's it is just as easy as picking up the phone and asking the provider to give you another block of ip's, per monthly cost is minimal to the end user - the cost of doing business</p><p>This is not a solution at all, as far as legal processing goes - the laws that take precedence are country of origin, not county of location</p>

[Opheylia]

<p>deleted due to realizing the post date said 2008.</p>

[Raahl]

<p>Wouldn't it be more secure to offer password key protection similar to what's offered in paypal and another unamed MMO?</p>

[GekkodaWhite]

<p>I have only seen one mmo handle gold buying, power leveling services/botting correctly and that was FFXI. Banning the sellers of these services does not work you have to ban the buyers as if there are no buyers there would be no sellers. In FFXI there was not warring, or temp ban if you got caught doing something that they viewed as cheating you where banned forever! I wish EQ2 would take this kind of stance on cheating, I mean EQ2 has a station exchange server, so if ppl want to buy things they can go to that server, so there is no reason for them to cheat in this game, and if they do they should be banned FOREVER and this issue would be fixed real quick. I know I SOE will never do this but hey one can dream.</p>

[AjiaAwakener]

<p>Couple things that have changed within the time since this post was started, and even since the last post I read.</p><p>1. They are now offering key-fob secure login devices. Announced 7-7-11 at Fan Faire.</p><p>2. Sony was hacked in April 2011 and personal information was accessed.</p><p>3. Something not mentioned in the original post that should have been: Keep your OS and software up to date with all available patches. This will prevent known (fixed) security vulnerabilities from being an open invitation on your PC.</p><p>Be careful out there, it's a jungle.</p>

[SOE-MOD-07]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=502816&post_id=5633750" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50281...post_id=5633750</a> Posting links to 3rd party gold sites

[SOE-MOD-07]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=502816&post_id=5634148" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50281...post_id=5634148</a> Posting links to 3rd party gold sites

[Valdaglerion]

<p><cite>GekkodaWhite wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have only seen one mmo handle gold buying, power leveling services/botting correctly and that was FFXI. Banning the sellers of these services does not work you have to ban the buyers as if there are no buyers there would be no sellers. In FFXI there was not warring, or temp ban if you got caught doing something that they viewed as cheating you where banned forever! I wish EQ2 would take this kind of stance on cheating, I mean EQ2 has a station exchange server, so if ppl want to buy things they can go to that server, so there is no reason for them to cheat in this game, and if they do they should be banned FOREVER and this issue would be fixed real quick. I know I SOE will never do this but hey one can dream.</p></blockquote><p>An alternate solution to this was offered a few years back.</p><p>If someone is caught buying items on a non-exchange server they should have all their toons forcibly moved to the exchange enabled server with transfer rules in place and then have the account disabled to create new toons on any server but exchange.</p>

[Adegx]

<p>First let me say i'm completely 100% against gold buying. That being said any heavy handed system is just too problematic.</p><p>Most companies use programs to "spot" this behavior.  The trouble with this system is you are guilty until proven innocent.  Something that is very hard to do when all you got is email and your word vs their "infallible algorithm"  Most of the times you never get to even speak to a real person before it happens, So your left begging a CS rep who has heard it all before and really dont care. Often these programs just look for large cash transfers changing hands. In the days of buying/selling loot rights. I see large cash sums change hands often. One guild member i can think of runs 2 accounts and one has atleast 30k plat. What if he traded that to his other account? Would that be enough to set off some code? Probally</p><p>If i really wanted to i could site atleast half a dozen oops where programs have falsely banned alot of people. But I really dont have the time to do that now, But trust me it has happened. And thats just the ones we know about. How many have been banned from one game or another that the glitch wasnt discovered?</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Lawl, Why buy gold when you can buy Platinum Legally from SOE with SC Gifting? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[sirmoosealot]

<p><cite>Amana@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><cite>dawy wrote:</cite><blockquote>One of the things that is irking me about the plat spam is that just yesterday i rolled a new toon and on the queens colony there was a nice little froggy stood by his lonesome,so i nipped on my wifes account and sure enough within a few moments a /tell came through from this toon,now of course the spam filter caught the message and it was blocked,but IIRC didnt SOE ban any communication from the starter islands a while back?It just seems a shame that while the spam filter is a good and welcome addition to let them spam willy nilly from the noob islands kind of defeats the object of it all.</blockquote><p>Unfortunately they banned it from the Trial of the Isle accounts.  This was done in response to plat spammers making 25-50 accounts a day to spam people from.  However this does not stop them from getting fresh accounts and spamming people before the accounts are basically permabanned.</p><p>The worst problem is players new to the MMO genre may get the impression buying plat/power leveling is alright.  They don't read the forums considering it a waste of time and end up being jacked. </p><p>Personally to me the biggest problem right now are the Plat spammers/sellers that are now "Hacking" into beloved EQ2 fan sites injecting malicious code into them.  Personally it is that right there where I believe the FBI needs to get involved. </p></blockquote><p>true but if people actually took the time to read that long ToS before the game starts they would know plat buying is against the ToS, maybe sony should write in big letters on the launcher specifically saying, "Don't be a ******, buying plat from plat selling sites is against ToS and if you do anyways and your account is hacked or compromised, well tough luck we warned you!"</p>

[simianthief]

<p>It wouldn't help.  I can't remember the last time I actually read an ToS agreement, which is stupid on my part I realize that...but I read enough legal documents every day as it is.  And unless something of gross misconduct happens I am okay with "common" sense ruling.  </p>