Caster vs melee

[Death0Matic]

<p>Ok why is it that people even in master crafted gear can have 60+% resist to any given damage type yet even plate tanks solo in fabled gear might just make 60% melee resist?  But then again if you have fabled gear your spell resists are gonna be a [Removed for Content] of alot more than your melee mitagation.  </p><p>Anyways, I pvp alot and play a caster type class. With over 460 spell casting and master spells it is a regular fight to roll up on a green con, lvl 72 and get 3-5 resists in a row.  Sony might think thats cool but then if that green con is a swash, brig, or any other melee class they hit my like i'm grey to them.  50% avoidance doesn't even seem to matter vs someone 8 levels below.  After a bunch of fights with every melee class green- even (80) it seems they rarely miss, even with auto attacks, more than 3 times the whole fight while most of the fights vs blues and even their hit rate is 100%.  And with the melee dps in T8 swash/brig can drop anyone is what 3-4 seconds? </p><p>So my question is why is melee favored heavly in pvp over spell casting?</p>

[Dracot]

<cite>Death0Matic wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok why is it that people even in master crafted gear can have 60+% resist to any given damage type yet even plate tanks solo in fabled gear might just make 60% melee resist?  But then again if you have fabled gear your spell resists are gonna be a [I cannot control my vocabulary] of alot more than your melee mitagation.  </p><p>Anyways, I pvp alot and play a caster type class. With over 460 spell casting and master spells it is a regular fight to roll up on a green con, lvl 72 and get 3-5 resists in a row.  Sony might think thats cool but then if that green con is a swash, brig, or any other melee class they hit my like i'm grey to them.  50% avoidance doesn't even seem to matter vs someone 8 levels below.  After a bunch of fights with every melee class green- even (80) it seems they rarely miss, even with auto attacks, more than 3 times the whole fight while most of the fights vs blues and even their hit rate is 100%.  And with the melee dps in T8 swash/brig can drop anyone is what 3-4 seconds? </p><p>So my question is why is melee favored heavly in pvp over spell casting?</p></blockquote><p>Play a necro? 3-4 seconds? I think not....check this log out.</p><p>(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] YOU are critically hit by Sniper Arrow for 4838 crushing damage.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your stoneskin absorbed 412 points of damage!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You convert the force of the blow into pure mana, dispersing it among the group!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] YOU are hit for 0 poison damage.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] YOU are critically hit by Quick Shot for 479 crushing damage.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You were interrupted!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You are stunned!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your spell has been interrupted!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You send your pet in for the attack!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Cheesehunter hits YOU for 835 crushing damage.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your favor begins to fade.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] The Mark of the Miasmic disappears.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] The power of the Lich begins to wane.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You can no longer see invisible.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Alas, Dracot has died from pain and suffering.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] The Undead Knight decays.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your good-natured Rhino departs.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Alas, Dracot's imp pack has died from pain and suffering.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Alas, Dracot's imp pack has died from pain and suffering.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Alas, Dracot's imp pack has died from pain and suffering.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your Pack of Imps return to their graves.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] An arbor giant's Pack of Imps return to their graves.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] An arbor giant no longer looks helpless.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You are no longer stunned.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Cheesehunter has killed you.</p>

[Pumancat]

<p> Everscout FTW !<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Nyarlath</p>

[Crimmyblues]

..couldn't you have a tank taunt people away from you while you do your job?

[tallanskinnywhiteg]

well the problem is if a mage has a tank to taunt its too easy to kill a scout with a dot + fission, or a dot + bolt of ice....  whats the fun in that?

[LaoSh]

<cite>Death0Matic wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok why is it that people even in master crafted gear can have 60+% resist to any given damage type yet even plate tanks solo in fabled gear might just make 60% melee resist?  But then again if you have fabled gear your spell resists are gonna be a [I cannot control my vocabulary] of alot more than your melee mitagation.  </p><p>Anyways, I pvp alot and play a caster type class. With over 460 spell casting and master spells it is a regular fight to roll up on a green con, lvl 72 and get 3-5 resists in a row.  Sony might think thats cool but then if that green con is a swash, brig, or any other melee class they hit my like i'm grey to them.  50% avoidance doesn't even seem to matter vs someone 8 levels below.  After a bunch of fights with every melee class green- even (80) it seems they rarely miss, even with auto attacks, more than 3 times the whole fight while most of the fights vs blues and even their hit rate is 100%.  And with the melee dps in T8 swash/brig can drop anyone is what 3-4 seconds? </p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;"><u>So my question is why is melee favored heavly in pvp over spell casting?</u></span></b></p></blockquote><p>HAHA tell that to the wizzy who one shotted 3 people in my group with fission the other day, all of which had over 9k hps.</p><p>Im a monk with nearly 10k pvp kills and a Master title and I still have some really good fights against all kinds of mages, assuming they are a good pvper. I'm a firm believer that the player makes alot more difference than the class and gear.  I know alot of people who have OP toons who cannot fight there way out of a paper bag....FACT</p><p>IMO good pvpers who happen to play mages actually do very well for themselves and dont whine about it.  The problem is alot of not so good pvpers chose mages and then complain when they get spanked.  It is my opinion that they would also be mediocre at best with any melee class they chose </p>

[KatrinaDeath]

<p>This boils down to PvE design. Take the Defiler for example... Many debuffs that are <b><i><u>very </u></i></b>effictive in PvE yet in PvP most of the times the defiler will be dead if they try to debuff the PvP "mob". </p><p>Sony never adjusted some classes for PvP. They have gotten a lot better since PvP was first launched. Ever play a mage pre-EoF? "Your Abate Life hits Playerx for 300 diesese damage" A spell that hit for 1500-2000 in PvE.</p><p>In 3 seconds the mage casts 1 spell. In 3 seconds the scout can land 2 debuffs and 2 high damage ca's. Solution is to watch your back... Have your root/stun/snare/fear/mez ready. Melee classes get upset when they die 30 meters from you!!!</p><p>I think it's pretty even right now with casters vs melee. (Less mythicals) Melee has a slight edge but as a mage if you watch your back carefully you can succeed.</p><p>Or play a hybrid class... Troub, SK, Pally, Dirge, Mystic, Inquis, Warden... these 7 classes have (Or can have via AA) both ca's and spells so you can use what you need at the right times.</p>

[Zapo]

<cite>LaoShin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>HAHA tell that to the wizzy who one shotted 3 people in my group with fission the other day, all of which had over 9k hps.</p></blockquote>This is obviously not true because it is not possible to oneshot people in pvp. Doesn't matter which class.Anyway, this topic is like beating a dead horse. Not worth the time.

[KatrinaDeath]

<cite>Anthur@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>LaoShin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>HAHA tell that to the wizzy who one shotted 3 people in my group with fission the other day, all of which had over 9k hps.</p></blockquote>This is obviously not true because it is not possible to oneshot people in pvp. Doesn't matter which class.Anyway, this topic is like beating a dead horse. Not worth the time.</blockquote><p>I do not support one-shotting.</p><p>But Wizzys can oneshot nowadays... The only one that has oneshotted me has his mythical and I bet that was the case here. Fission crit plus spell double attack plus what is it freehand sorcery CAN oneshot other players... Sk's could back in the day and I still think Assassins can. Rangers can kinda. Double bow shot +crit +poison +dmg procs)</p><p>It happens...</p>

[Grimfort]

<cite>Anthur@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>LaoShin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>HAHA tell that to the wizzy who one shotted 3 people in my group with fission the other day, all of which had over 9k hps.</p></blockquote>This is obviously not true because it is not possible to oneshot people in pvp. Doesn't matter which class.Anyway, this topic is like beating a dead horse. Not worth the time.</blockquote><p>You have obviously not seen this, as you sure as hell can 1 shot people. I've seen fission hit for 11k in pvp, I as an SK fully sta specced only have 11k. In the duels on BB docks the past couple of days I have been fissioned (or fussioned <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) for 9k (which didnt kill me remarkably, but I didnt last long after) and a ice bolt for another 9k which did kill me as I had already taken dmg.</p><p>I loose more than I win against casters, generally due to manashield, debuffs and root spells. When dueling, I see scouts rip into casters, but not tanks (zerkers do well tho), yes we can do well, but it aint melee dmg thats doing it. So I would ask the OP to confirm/deny that tanks are included in his question.</p>

[Gimet]

<cite>LaoShin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Death0Matic wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok why is it that people even in master crafted gear can have 60+% resist to any given damage type yet even plate tanks solo in fabled gear might just make 60% melee resist?  But then again if you have fabled gear your spell resists are gonna be a [I cannot control my vocabulary] of alot more than your melee mitagation.  </p><p>Anyways, I pvp alot and play a caster type class. With over 460 spell casting and master spells it is a regular fight to roll up on a green con, lvl 72 and get 3-5 resists in a row.  Sony might think thats cool but then if that green con is a swash, brig, or any other melee class they hit my like i'm grey to them.  50% avoidance doesn't even seem to matter vs someone 8 levels below.  After a bunch of fights with every melee class green- even (80) it seems they rarely miss, even with auto attacks, more than 3 times the whole fight while most of the fights vs blues and even their hit rate is 100%.  And with the melee dps in T8 swash/brig can drop anyone is what 3-4 seconds? </p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;"><u>So my question is why is melee favored heavly in pvp over spell casting?</u></span></b></p></blockquote><p>HAHA tell that to the wizzy who one shotted 3 people in my group with fission the other day, all of which had over 9k hps.</p><p>Im a monk with nearly 10k pvp kills and a Master title and I still have some really good fights against all kinds of mages, assuming they are a good pvper. I'm a firm believer that the player makes alot more difference than the class and gear.  I know alot of people who have OP toons who cannot fight there way out of a paper bag....FACT</p><p>IMO good pvpers who happen to play mages actually do very well for themselves and dont whine about it.  The problem is alot of not so good pvpers chose mages and then complain when they get spanked.  It is my opinion that they would also be mediocre at best with any melee class they chose </p></blockquote><p>You're a monk huh? How many interrupts/Knockbacks do you have? How long does it take for Warlocks and Wizards to cast something? I think you were slacking, becaus eyoue asily could've stopped him.</p><p>Please, a caster is not just a mana-shield using 2 nuke throwing Sorcerer. Get this out of your head. What about Summoners and Enchanters? You really can't whine about them....</p><p>Bruiser/Monk and Scouts equals pressign easy when you play EQ2....One priority, smash DPSing buttons.</p><p>Summoners/Enchanters/Even some healers pressing meium to hard because we can't just focus on button smashing. Otherwise you be be getting .5 second fights from people.</p><p>It's amazing how people honestly think that everyone who plays a Necro or Conjy are complete idiots because they can't win and those 2 or 3 good ones actualy know how to play. 2 or 3, out of how many now?</p>

[Roald]

1) If Melee classes missed 7 times in a row against a green, this forum would explode from the number of scouts logging on to cry. 2) If you yourself, let alone 2 other people let a wizard get fission off, you need to learn to play. 3) Defending casters by saying ONE caster class 1-shotted you because you can't play properly is amazingly stupid.

[Pumancat]

<cite>Swisha@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anthur@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>LaoShin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>HAHA tell that to the wizzy who one shotted 3 people in my group with fission the other day, all of which had over 9k hps.</p></blockquote>This is obviously not true because it is not possible to oneshot people in pvp. Doesn't matter which class.Anyway, this topic is like beating a dead horse. Not worth the time.</blockquote><p>I do not support one-shotting.</p><p>But Wizzys can oneshot nowadays... The only one that has oneshotted me has his mythical and I bet that was the case here. Fission crit plus spell double attack plus what is it freehand sorcery CAN oneshot other players... Sk's could back in the day and I still think Assassins can. Rangers can kinda. Double bow shot +crit +poison +dmg procs)</p><p>It happens...</p></blockquote><p> I'm sorry, but if you're stupid enough to stand in front of a wizzy for the 4 seconnd cast time of fission, then you deserve to get one shotted. And I have never been in a fight where any melee stands still half that long. Plus, since when does a wizzy not get stunned/interrupted long enough to cast it in the first place? </p><p>Nyarlath - 78 wizard</p><p>venekor server</p>

[Pumancat]

<cite>Swisha@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anthur@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>LaoShin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>HAHA tell that to the wizzy who one shotted 3 people in my group with fission the other day, all of which had over 9k hps.</p></blockquote>This is obviously not true because it is not possible to oneshot people in pvp. Doesn't matter which class.Anyway, this topic is like beating a dead horse. Not worth the time.</blockquote><p>I do not support one-shotting.</p><p>But Wizzys can oneshot nowadays... The only one that has oneshotted me has his mythical and I bet that was the case here. Fission crit plus spell double attack plus what is it freehand sorcery CAN oneshot other players... Sk's could back in the day and I still think Assassins can. Rangers can kinda. Double bow shot +crit +poison +dmg procs)</p><p>It happens...</p></blockquote><p> I'm sorry, but if you're stupid enough to stand in front of a wizzy for the 4 seconnd cast time of fission, then you deserve to get one shotted. And I have never been in a fight where any melee stands still half that long. Plus, since when does a wizzy not get stunned/interrupted long enough to cast it in the first place? </p><p>Nyarlath - 78 wizard</p><p>venekor server</p>

[KatrinaDeath]

<cite>Pumancat wrote:</cite><blockquote><b></b><p>I'm sorry, but if you're stupid enough to stand in front of a wizzy for the 4 seconnd cast time of fission, then you deserve to get one shotted. And I have never been in a fight where any melee stands still half that long. Plus, since when does a wizzy not get stunned/interrupted long enough to cast it in the first place? </p><p>Nyarlath - 78 wizard</p><p>venekor server</p></blockquote>100% agree... Out on the open world if I see any mage trying to lit one up on me I either hit my inturrupt, mez, put up a huge ward, or get the [Removed for Content] back. I just know oneshotting first hand since in the glory hole has one nice advantage... The ability to test things on eachother.

[WasFycksir]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Death0Matic wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok why is it that people even in master crafted gear can have 60+% resist to any given damage type yet even plate tanks solo in fabled gear might just make 60% melee resist?  But then again if you have fabled gear your spell resists are gonna be a [I cannot control my vocabulary] of alot more than your melee mitagation.  </p><p>Anyways, I pvp alot and play a caster type class. With over 460 spell casting and master spells it is a regular fight to roll up on a green con, lvl 72 and get 3-5 resists in a row.  Sony might think thats cool but then if that green con is a swash, brig, or any other melee class they hit my like i'm grey to them.  50% avoidance doesn't even seem to matter vs someone 8 levels below.  After a bunch of fights with every melee class green- even (80) it seems they rarely miss, even with auto attacks, more than 3 times the whole fight while most of the fights vs blues and even their hit rate is 100%.  And with the melee dps in T8 swash/brig can drop anyone is what 3-4 seconds? </p><p>So my question is why is melee favored heavly in pvp over spell casting?</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Play a necro? 3-4 seconds? I think not....check this log out.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] YOU are critically hit by Sniper Arrow for 4838 crushing damage.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your stoneskin absorbed 412 points of damage!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You convert the force of the blow into pure mana, dispersing it among the group!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] YOU are hit for 0 poison damage.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] YOU are critically hit by Quick Shot for 479 crushing damage.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You were interrupted!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You are stunned!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your spell has been interrupted!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You send your pet in for the attack!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Cheesehunter hits YOU for 835 crushing damage.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your favor begins to fade.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] The Mark of the Miasmic disappears.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] The power of the Lich begins to wane.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You can no longer see invisible.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Alas, Dracot has died from pain and suffering.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] The Undead Knight decays.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your good-natured Rhino departs.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Alas, Dracot's imp pack has died from pain and suffering.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Alas, Dracot's imp pack has died from pain and suffering.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Alas, Dracot's imp pack has died from pain and suffering.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your Pack of Imps return to their graves.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] An arbor giant's Pack of Imps return to their graves.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] An arbor giant no longer looks helpless.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You are no longer stunned.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Cheesehunter has killed you.</span></p></blockquote><span style="font-size: small;">Good thing they tweaked things awhile back to make fights last longer or that battle would have been really fast...</span>

[Gildon]

<p>LOL the above post is both comedy and yet tragedy at the same time.</p><p>To the original poster - EQ2 does favor the scouts.  It's been that way for quite some time, and unfortunately it'll stay that way especially in PVP.  I'm a Warlock and have resigned my self to always rolling with a group.</p><p>See Scout players will say L2P and 'You should be with a group, and tank and etc and etc.'  while they roam freely solo, and they will say it with a straight face not understanding the great irony.</p><p>But I still have fun - although like the 3 second deaths I get routinely,  those are frustrating.</p><p>All classes can get 60+% resist across the board against all magic,  but the inverse is not true,  we cannot get anywhere near avoidance/mitigation against melee like that.  It is what it is.</p><p>Go look at the top PVP classes,  either Kill/death ratio,  or Titles,  or total kills,  or hell any of them.  You'll notice something everyone knows - wanna be top dog.  Go be a scout.</p><p>Peace</p><p>Caster Fodder Since 2003</p>

[Rudwick]

Obviously you were not using any kinda of see stealth item. I play both a warlock and a ranger and sniper arrow's cast time is so long if you get hit with it you deserve to die. 90% of casters I see running solo never ever have any kind of see stealth on yet raise cane when a scout owns them. If you guys would use a totem and be aware of your environment I guarantee your success ratio against scouts would be a lot better.

[Dracot]

<cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anthur@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>LaoShin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>HAHA tell that to the wizzy who one shotted 3 people in my group with fission the other day, all of which had over 9k hps.</p></blockquote>This is obviously not true because it is not possible to oneshot people in pvp. Doesn't matter which class.Anyway, this topic is like beating a dead horse. Not worth the time.</blockquote><p>You have obviously not seen this, as you sure as hell can 1 shot people. I've seen fission hit for 11k in pvp, I as an SK fully sta specced only have 11k. In the duels on BB docks the past couple of days I have been fissioned (or fussioned <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />) for 9k (which didnt kill me remarkably, but I didnt last long after) and a ice bolt for another 9k which did kill me as I had already taken dmg.</p><p>I loose more than I win against casters, generally due to manashield, debuffs and root spells. When dueling, I see scouts rip into casters, but not tanks (zerkers do well tho), yes we can do well, but it aint melee dmg thats doing it. So I would ask the OP to confirm/deny that tanks are included in his question.</p></blockquote>Ummm do you even know that ALL MAGE CLASSES DONT HAVE MANASHIELD??  Did we not read the log file i posted? that ios 6k+ dmg in less than 1 godamn second. There needs to be adressing done to NON MANASHIELDING MAGES.   I've had plenty tanks stunlock me/knockback long enough to kill me in under 5 seconds.  and sorry since our guardian on raids is parsing up with the scouts and mages, leads me to understand how they kill non manashield mages easily also.  Zerkers? forget it....last about 2 seocnds to a good zerker.

[Dracot]

<cite>Rudwick wrote:</cite><blockquote>Obviously you were not using any kinda of see stealth item. I play both a warlock and a ranger and sniper arrow's cast time is so long if you get hit with it you deserve to die. 90% of casters I see running solo never ever have any kind of see stealth on yet raise cane when a scout owns them. If you guys would use a totem and be aware of your environment I guarantee your success ratio against scouts would be a lot better. </blockquote>I have 2 bags full of potions and totems, i DID see him coming, that prevents 100% nothing. It jsut shows what is about to happen. Play a necro in pvp b4 you spout out more BS. Pet didn't even have time to react read the log file.

[Bloodfa]

<p>There's a Conjuror, I believe he's the leader of DoM, wearing 2 of the items that proc Dispersion.  Waaaaaay better than Manashield, in my opinion.  Look up the Sash of the Nathsar Tribe (I sold one about 15 minutes after putting it on the broker, very hot commodity).  Get a couple of those items and you'll be stuffing arrows down a Ranger's throat.  Just a suggestion.</p><p>And yes, I know there's a difference between caster types.</p>

[Dracot]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>There's a Conjuror, I believe he's the leader of DoM, wearing 2 of the items that proc Dispersion.  Waaaaaay better than Manashield, in my opinion.  Look up the Sash of the Nathsar Tribe (I sold one about 15 minutes after putting it on the broker, very hot commodity).  Get a couple of those items and you'll be stuffing arrows down a Ranger's throat.  Just a suggestion.</p><p>And yes, I know there's a difference between caster types.</p></blockquote><p>I have 3 of those already bud, nice try though. Notice in my log "(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your stoneskin absorbed 412 points of damage!"  When you clik on my sig, its showing my raid setup gear atm since thats what i had on last night.  I have the sash i have the faction item from outter seb and the ear, its not the answer.</p><p>also conjurors get stoneskin as a abilitiy, so he gets more.</p>

[Bloodfa]

Ummm .... ouch.  Sorry, thought I had a slam dunk on that one. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> 

[Dracot]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ummm .... ouch.  Sorry, thought I had a slam dunk on that one. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  </blockquote>Trust me ive done every possible option.  There is only one small hope left.  Our mythical epic has some very nice effeects, not that they help our survivability any, but will increase our chances of a kill her and there.  A mythical pet summon, and splurt is a good thing, only trouble is on a pvp server clearing VP isn't going to be an easy thing as a freeport guild. Really sad how the developers ignore this when its all plain as day, losing more and more respect for them on a daily basis with all the BS they've implemented in the past updates and still ahven't addressed one thing to increase a necro surviving in or out of group.

[Sightless]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rudwick wrote:</cite><blockquote>Obviously you were not using any kinda of see stealth item. I play both a warlock and a ranger and sniper arrow's cast time is so long if you get hit with it you deserve to die. 90% of casters I see running solo never ever have any kind of see stealth on yet raise cane when a scout owns them. If you guys would use a totem and be aware of your environment I guarantee your success ratio against scouts would be a lot better. </blockquote>I have 2 bags full of potions and totems, i DID see him coming, that prevents 100% nothing. It jsut shows what is about to happen. Play a necro in pvp b4 you spout out more BS. Pet didn't even have time to react read the log file.</blockquote><p>You DIDN'T SEE HIM COMING if he got off Sniper Shot. There is no possible way he could have got off Sniper Shot if you were paying attention. You could have run to him, run a circle around him, and finally cast your fastest spell before he got of Sniper Shot, IF YOU WERE PAYING ATTENTION!!! Sniper Shot has a very long casting time, and that Ranger would have to remain STEALTHED in order to use it.</p>

[Sightless]

<p>As for the Manashield debate, some of you really should talk to a Necromancer on Venekor who I fight one on one often. This guy knows his stuff, and Manashield is never a problem for him. What he lacks is the ability to do damage fast. Manashield isn't going to win you a fight against a smart player, it just isn't. Manashield is the easiest ability to overcome.</p><p>Melee are top dogs now. Bruisers, Beserkers, and even Guardians are putting out Brigand DPS. I've seen a Guardian ward/negate 9 of my spells I threw at him.</p>

[Grimfort]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I loose more than I win against casters, generally due to manashield, debuffs and root spells. When dueling, I see scouts rip into casters, but not tanks (zerkers do well tho), yes we can do well, but it aint melee dmg thats doing it. So I would ask the OP to confirm/deny that tanks are included in his question.</p></blockquote>Ummm do you even know that ALL MAGE CLASSES DONT HAVE MANASHIELD??  Did we not read the log file i posted? that ios 6k+ dmg in less than 1 godamn second. There needs to be adressing done to NON MANASHIELDING MAGES.   I've had plenty tanks stunlock me/knockback long enough to kill me in under 5 seconds.  and sorry since our guardian on raids is parsing up with the scouts and mages, leads me to understand how they kill non manashield mages easily also.  Zerkers? forget it....last about 2 seocnds to a good zerker. </blockquote><p>Well, if you removed your "My class is gimped" glasses for a second you would have noticed 2 things. First off I said generally, not all. Second off I'm an SK, I don't exactly get to fight necros very often. I believe you when you say your class is dire in pvp, but harping on about it in every post you make by bouncing off other peoples experiences won't help. Cheesehunter has taken me out in under 10 seconds numerous times, hes very good at what he does.</p><p>To add, a raid buffed MT is going to do great dps, hes has 23 people behind him, but that has no bearing on pvp whatsoever. Even if hes not MT raid buffs do wonders for tanks, my 1k dps solo  doubles when Im raid buffed and more so if I'm the one being hit.</p>

[Roald]

<p>As a mage I run around with 7.9k health, by far the most I've ever seen a mage have. At the time of this log I had 7k, still a very large amount for a Mage. I still die in 1second:</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz hits YOU for 1747 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz tries to zap YOU with Taunting Blow, but YOU resist.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] YOUR noxious reprieve absorbs 246 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz's caustic poison hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] YOUR Convulsions critically hits Boomz for 1130 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz critically hits YOU for 2446 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] There is no eligible target for this spell.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Uncanny Thrusts critically hits YOU for 853 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Convulsions hits Boomz for 916 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Uncanny Thrusts critically hits YOU for 878 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Convulsions hits Boomz for 1107 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Tyrannical Mind hits Boomz for 233 mental damage.</p><p>(</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] There is no eligible target for this spell.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Eye Point hits YOU for 999 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] The power fades from your body.</p><p>Even had I had 7.9k at that point, so what? Great I got to live another second!</p>

[Menstor]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As a mage I run around with 7.9k health, by far the most I've ever seen a mage have. At the time of this log I had 7k, still a very large amount for a Mage. I still die in 1second:</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz hits YOU for 1747 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz tries to zap YOU with Taunting Blow, but YOU resist.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] YOUR noxious reprieve absorbs 246 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz's caustic poison hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] YOUR Convulsions critically hits Boomz for 1130 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz critically hits YOU for 2446 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] There is no eligible target for this spell.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Uncanny Thrusts critically hits YOU for 853 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Convulsions hits Boomz for 916 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Uncanny Thrusts critically hits YOU for 878 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Convulsions hits Boomz for 1107 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Tyrannical Mind hits Boomz for 233 mental damage.</p><p>(</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] There is no eligible target for this spell.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Eye Point hits YOU for 999 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] The power fades from your body.</p><p>Even had I had 7.9k at that point, so what? Great I got to live another second!</p></blockquote>Sounds like Boomz really KNEW WHAT HE WAS <i>DOING!</i>

[ke'la]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rudwick wrote:</cite><blockquote>Obviously you were not using any kinda of see stealth item. I play both a warlock and a ranger and sniper arrow's cast time is so long if you get hit with it you deserve to die. 90% of casters I see running solo never ever have any kind of see stealth on yet raise cane when a scout owns them. If you guys would use a totem and be aware of your environment I guarantee your success ratio against scouts would be a lot better. </blockquote>I have 2 bags full of potions and totems, i DID see him coming, that prevents 100% nothing. It jsut shows what is about to happen. Play a necro in pvp b4 you spout out more BS. Pet didn't even have time to react read the log file.</blockquote><p>especally the part about losing See Invis, you know Last I checked you have to have it active, to lose it, as such the log proves that you had some form of see invis up. </p>

[Grimfort]

Not to take anything from boomz, but 2 melee (dual weild I assume) and then 2 CAs (i believe) does not deserve huge props, but getting the gear and setup does. 4k melee crit is sick tho, esp when he could have 1-/+ sec delay on that. With speed increase I can get a 2hnd to 1.5k+ every 3 seconds if I crit (40% ish). A zerker friend of mine was pulling 2k a sec duel wield which was probly at top end, but 4k is high. Keep the hell away from that guy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

[Dracot]

<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rudwick wrote:</cite><blockquote>Obviously you were not using any kinda of see stealth item. I play both a warlock and a ranger and sniper arrow's cast time is so long if you get hit with it you deserve to die. 90% of casters I see running solo never ever have any kind of see stealth on yet raise cane when a scout owns them. If you guys would use a totem and be aware of your environment I guarantee your success ratio against scouts would be a lot better. </blockquote>I have 2 bags full of potions and totems, i DID see him coming, that prevents 100% nothing. It jsut shows what is about to happen. Play a necro in pvp b4 you spout out more BS. Pet didn't even have time to react read the log file.</blockquote><p>You DIDN'T SEE HIM COMING if he got off Sniper Shot. There is no possible way he could have got off Sniper Shot if you were paying attention. You could have run to him, run a circle around him, and finally cast your fastest spell before he got of Sniper Shot, IF YOU WERE PAYING ATTENTION!!! Sniper Shot has a very long casting time, and that Ranger would have to remain STEALTHED in order to use it.</p></blockquote>And you know everything, gratz scout of all scouts.  Not like a person in 3rd person cannot pan around and at last possible second catch a glimpse of a ranger bout to attack.  Go troll elsewhere.

[Dracot]

<cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I loose more than I win against casters, generally due to manashield, debuffs and root spells. When dueling, I see scouts rip into casters, but not tanks (zerkers do well tho), yes we can do well, but it aint melee dmg thats doing it. So I would ask the OP to confirm/deny that tanks are included in his question.</p></blockquote>Ummm do you even know that ALL MAGE CLASSES DONT HAVE MANASHIELD??  Did we not read the log file i posted? that ios 6k+ dmg in less than 1 godamn second. There needs to be adressing done to NON MANASHIELDING MAGES.   I've had plenty tanks stunlock me/knockback long enough to kill me in under 5 seconds.  and sorry since our guardian on raids is parsing up with the scouts and mages, leads me to understand how they kill non manashield mages easily also.  Zerkers? forget it....last about 2 seocnds to a good zerker. </blockquote><p>Well, if you removed your "My class is gimped" glasses for a second you would have noticed 2 things. First off I said generally, not all. Second off I'm an SK, I don't exactly get to fight necros very often. I believe you when you say your class is dire in pvp, but harping on about it in every post you make by bouncing off other peoples experiences won't help. Cheesehunter has taken me out in under 10 seconds numerous times, hes very good at what he does.</p><p>To add, a raid buffed MT is going to do great dps, hes has 23 people behind him, but that has no bearing on pvp whatsoever. Even if hes not MT raid buffs do wonders for tanks, my 1k dps solo  doubles when Im raid buffed and more so if I'm the one being hit.</p></blockquote>I WILL HARPO about y class being broken in EVERY thread possible until the devs fix it. I pay the same amount as every other ABLE class in the game yet i spend all my time reviving and rebuffing. Your ***OPINION*** on the subject is understandable, but still won't change my mind.

[Grimfort]

You have been harping for weeks ole boy, they ain't gonna change it.

[Gimet]

<cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote>You have been harping for weeks ole boy, they ain't gonna change it.</blockquote><p>Now if everyone thought like that Rangers wouldn't have been nerfed. People crusaded against them for months. I wonder why some of those people who were against rangers are now the ones playing the "Rangers" of this situation and telling us Mages to L2P.</p><p>Nothing specific to you Grimfort, just adding this. MAY I REMIND THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SORCERER, ENCHANTER, AND SUMMONER. YOU CANNOT GENERALIZE THESE 6 CLASSES AS MAGE. IT JUST DOES NOT WORK.</p>

[LaoSh]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>1)<u> If Melee classes missed 7 times in a row against a green, this forum would explode from the number of scouts logging on to cry.</u>2<u>) If you yourself, let alone 2 other people let a wizard get fission off, you need to learn to play</u>.3) Defending casters by saying ONE caster class 1-shotted you because you can't play properly is amazingly stupid.</blockquote><p>this is hilarious!  Yeah i dont know how to play because I wasnt able to stop a wizzy in a group on group fight from casting fission.  Like I can read his mind and time a stun or interupt perfectly everytime. This would be assuming I even knew every single class I was enagaged with.  Group v group can be chaotic, its not always easy to prevent everything.  And your assuming you know every class your fighting against.  My job is to taunt people off key group members and/or assist the MA, if the MA doesnt deem the wizzy our first target then that kind of thing can happen.  So who gets the blame?  the MA for not recognizing he was a wizzy? or did he just realize that he would manashield anyways and it would be better to drop a healer or coercer first?  Either way, stuff happens and its amazingly stupid to assume someone needs to learn how to play because they let a wizzy get fission off.  </p><p>PS i got news for you, melee do complain about missing too much.  Have you read any melee forums?  Brawlers especially have this issue.  Which is why I have no choice but to MT in offensive stance, because i have no chance of holding aggro in defensive because of all the misses.  Even with Master I offensive stance and bonuses on my gear I still miss a ton.  The only way I would dream of using defensive stance is if i had a warden and/or dirge in group giving me like 100 to melee skills.  Think maybe you need to read around a bit more before opening your mouth.  If anything resists are broke in the opposite direction your complaining.  I constantly get hit for ridiculous amounts from even grey casters when i have something like 60% resists.  IMO and many other have said the same thing, I believe the resist % doesnt even work properly.  Even on my 80 warden with something like 9-10k cold resists, I will consistantly eat massive ice novas from greys and especially the upgraded version from white cons.  It doesnt seem to matter what your resists are tbh.  </p>

[LaoSh]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As a mage I run around with 7.9k health, by far the most I've ever seen a mage have. At the time of this log I had 7k, still a very large amount for a Mage. I still die in 1second:</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz hits YOU for 1747 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz tries to zap YOU with Taunting Blow, but YOU resist.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] YOUR noxious reprieve absorbs 246 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz's caustic poison hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] YOUR Convulsions critically hits Boomz for 1130 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz critically hits YOU for 2446 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] There is no eligible target for this spell.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Uncanny Thrusts critically hits YOU for 853 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Convulsions hits Boomz for 916 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Uncanny Thrusts critically hits YOU for 878 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Convulsions hits Boomz for 1107 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Tyrannical Mind hits Boomz for 233 mental damage.</p><p>(</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] There is no eligible target for this spell.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Eye Point hits YOU for 999 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] The power fades from your body.</p><p>Even had I had 7.9k at that point, so what? Great I got to live another second!</p></blockquote>This is funny coming from the ONE SHOT PET class, not to mention your one spell...."convulsions" did like 4k damage to him in that same amount of time.  Im assuming you didnt have a pet during this fight, so its no wonder you lost.  Maybe if you did you could have mezzed him, stifled/stunned him while your pet one or two shotted him. 

[MokiCh]

You obviously have no idea how Coercers are played, so why don't you go read up about them before you embarrass yourself in public again. And give it a rest with the one-shot pet business. That was 1 pet in 1 zone and only if you had a master charm spell, and most of the coercers on pvp didn't use them. There were even a few high level / high profile coercers that actively campaigned against their use. None of that changes the fact that we've regressed back to KOS in terms of caster resist rates and melee damage and hit rates being ridiculously over the top in comparison.

[Death0Matic]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #cc0000;"><span style="font-size: small;">1) If Melee classes missed 7 times in a row against a green, this forum would explode from the number of scouts logging on to cry.</span></span>2) If you yourself, let alone 2 other people let a wizard get fission off, you need to learn to play.3) Defending casters by saying ONE caster class 1-shotted you because you can't play properly is amazingly stupid.</blockquote><p>That about says it all.  Yet this is a regular fight in my books.  And that is why i started the post.  </p><p>So do claster get the short end of the stick of resists because when they get a resist they can just cast the spell 1-2 secs later when if melee misses the reuse timer start?  Because if that is the case i would trade it in it for 95%+ chance that all my spell would hit no matter what their resists is.  I'm getting sick of looking in the "My hits" tab and seeing "You try to......but they resist" then looking in the "Hits Taken" tab and seeing a 100% hit from greens or evens, seems con doesn't even matter.  </p><p>Another look is with 50% avoidance, this is what i have, rarely do i see melee miss.  I know they all have +melee skills and maybe a debuff or 2 but seriously even if its 30% avoidance after its all factored in like you would think something would miss or get blocked.  Seems like avoidance = spell resist not melee avoidance.</p>

[Roald]

<cite>LaoShin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As a mage I run around with 7.9k health, by far the most I've ever seen a mage have. At the time of this log I had 7k, still a very large amount for a Mage. I still die in 1second:</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz hits YOU for 1747 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz tries to zap YOU with Taunting Blow, but YOU resist.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] YOUR noxious reprieve absorbs 246 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz's caustic poison hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] YOUR Convulsions critically hits Boomz for 1130 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz critically hits YOU for 2446 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] There is no eligible target for this spell.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Uncanny Thrusts critically hits YOU for 853 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Convulsions hits Boomz for 916 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Uncanny Thrusts critically hits YOU for 878 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Convulsions hits Boomz for 1107 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Tyrannical Mind hits Boomz for 233 mental damage.</p><p>(</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] There is no eligible target for this spell.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Eye Point hits YOU for 999 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] The power fades from your body.</p><p>Even had I had 7.9k at that point, so what? Great I got to live another second!</p></blockquote>This is funny coming from the ONE SHOT PET class, not to mention your one spell...."convulsions" did like 4k damage to him in that same amount of time.  Im assuming you didnt have a pet during this fight, so its no wonder you lost.  Maybe if you did you could have mezzed him, stifled/stunned him while your pet one or two shotted him.  </blockquote><p>Once again proving how stupid you are. Firstly, 1 shot pets don't exist anymore (said pets now hit for 1.5k). Secondly, ALL pets were nerfed, so Im yet to see one hit for over 2.5kish, and if they do that's REALLY lucky. </p><p>Secondly, learn to count.</p><p>Thirdly, as soon as i broke mezz with a stun, he popped freedom of mind, and then preceeded to kill me in 1 second, as shown above.</p><p>If I knew as little about Coercers are you seemly do, I definately wouldn't be posting like you do.</p>

[Grimfort]

<cite>Gimet@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote>You have been harping for weeks ole boy, they ain't gonna change it.</blockquote><p>Now if everyone thought like that Rangers wouldn't have been nerfed. People crusaded against them for months. I wonder why some of those people who were against rangers are now the ones playing the "Rangers" of this situation and telling us Mages to L2P.</p><p>Nothing specific to you Grimfort, just adding this. MAY I REMIND THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SORCERER, ENCHANTER, AND SUMMONER. YOU CANNOT GENERALIZE THESE 6 CLASSES AS MAGE. IT JUST DOES NOT WORK.</p></blockquote><p>Idd, I don't know everything about caster classes, but 3/4 caster types I fought over the weekend had access to manashield, the other classes that exist are very seldom seem tbh. Everybody had issues with rangers being OP, unfortunatly the only person I see posting about necros is Dracot. This particular thread has some merit as it effects a bigger range of classes but I still stand by my original statement, is this just not another scouts are OP (which I believe they are btw, but I don't care if they are changed) as opposed to ALL melee classes.</p>

[Raidyen]

<cite>LaoShin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Death0Matic wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok why is it that people even in master crafted gear can have 60+% resist to any given damage type yet even plate tanks solo in fabled gear might just make 60% melee resist?  But then again if you have fabled gear your spell resists are gonna be a [I cannot control my vocabulary] of alot more than your melee mitagation.  </p><p>Anyways, I pvp alot and play a caster type class. With over 460 spell casting and master spells it is a regular fight to roll up on a green con, lvl 72 and get 3-5 resists in a row.  Sony might think thats cool but then if that green con is a swash, brig, or any other melee class they hit my like i'm grey to them.  50% avoidance doesn't even seem to matter vs someone 8 levels below.  After a bunch of fights with every melee class green- even (80) it seems they rarely miss, even with auto attacks, more than 3 times the whole fight while most of the fights vs blues and even their hit rate is 100%.  And with the melee dps in T8 swash/brig can drop anyone is what 3-4 seconds? </p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;"><u>So my question is why is melee favored heavly in pvp over spell casting?</u></span></b></p></blockquote><p>HAHA tell that to the wizzy who one shotted 3 people in my group with fission the other day, all of which had over 9k hps.</p><p>Im a monk with nearly 10k pvp kills and a Master title and I still have some really good fights against all kinds of mages, assuming they are a good pvper. I'm a firm believer that the player makes alot more difference than the class and gear.  I know alot of people who have OP toons who cannot fight there way out of a paper bag....FACT</p><p>IMO good pvpers who happen to play mages actually do very well for themselves and dont whine about it.  The problem is alot of not so good pvpers chose mages and then complain when they get spanked.  It is my opinion that they would also be mediocre at best with any melee class they chose </p></blockquote><p>I had to stop at this one.  First off, if 3 people in your group got hit with fission, they deserved to die.  Fission is a very difficult spell to get off in pvp, particularly against melee classes that move around.  Its got a pretty obvious casting   graphic if your settings are high enough, learn that graphic and when you see it, get yourself 10+ meters away from wizard.  Fussion will get resisted just as easy as any other spell.</p><p>Now on the flip side, A zerker with a Nathsar shortsword, a very easy weapon to get, can walk up, hit autoattack, and instantly do 2.5k, and if he gets a double attack, which isnt hard to do, kick that up to 5k dmg.  Thats instant, before anything else happens, your now 2k-5k less hitpoints, and nothing has even happened yet.</p><p>That is where the melee vs caster balance problem is.  It takes casting time for a mage/healer to start a pvp fight, where as Rangers/Melee types hit one button, and with the right weapon can instantly do half your damage+ before the fight even starts.</p><p>If they changed Auto attack to delay with the weapon, meaning you hit autoattack, and you dont get your first swing till the delay of the weapon counts down, it might be a bit more balanced.  But as of right now Melee types really have it easy.  Get a 6sec delay weapon, hit auto attack.</p>

[Dracot]

<cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gimet@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote>You have been harping for weeks ole boy, they ain't gonna change it.</blockquote><p>Now if everyone thought like that Rangers wouldn't have been nerfed. People crusaded against them for months. I wonder why some of those people who were against rangers are now the ones playing the "Rangers" of this situation and telling us Mages to L2P.</p><p>Nothing specific to you Grimfort, just adding this. MAY I REMIND THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SORCERER, ENCHANTER, AND SUMMONER. YOU CANNOT GENERALIZE THESE 6 CLASSES AS MAGE. IT JUST DOES NOT WORK.</p></blockquote><p>Idd, I don't know everything about caster classes, but 3/4 caster types I fought over the weekend had access to manashield, the other classes that exist are very seldom seem tbh. Everybody had issues with rangers being OP, unfortunatly the only person I see posting about necros is Dracot. This particular thread has some merit as it effects a bigger range of classes but I still stand by my original statement, is this just not another scouts are OP (which I believe they are btw, but I don't care if they are changed) as opposed to ALL melee classes.</p></blockquote>Grimfort, log on tonight, and count jsut how many PVP'n necros are on Venekor at 80, then maybe your GENIUS will prevail. NOONE Plays the [Removed for Content] class cause everyone knows they are broken.  On venekor, we have me, lenthar, Mortdujour(sp?), and 1 other i cannot remember name of atm.  From that list, we see me out in the wild more than anyone else, and i wonder why?  Maybe if you would instyead of trying to de-rail us getting some help, and learning the issues, and the reasoning just WHY you don't see 100's of necrmancers posting , you would understand.  In the lower tiers you will find  an average amount of lower lvl necro's which in those tiers were pretty [Removed for Content] good in pvp. T7 and above is all downhill. And no this is NOT jsut another scouts OP rant, this is with all classes we encounter, we can kill conjies pretty easily, thats about it.   Any manashieleded sorcerer is a very tough fight for a dot dmg based class, then jump us into healer fights and since they get cures alot of our dots don't do much, so it relies more on melee pets to do the work, then they get heals and its easy to outheal a dot ticking for 300-600 every couple seconds. Tanks, too many hp's to deal with while being stunned the entrie fight.  Monks, = perma stun, dead in 5 seconds.  Please stop worrying so much about my posting for help since its obviously not your forte,a nd you obviously are very naive about the class itself.   

[Dracot]

<cite>Drocca@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>LaoShin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Death0Matic wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok why is it that people even in master crafted gear can have 60+% resist to any given damage type yet even plate tanks solo in fabled gear might just make 60% melee resist?  But then again if you have fabled gear your spell resists are gonna be a [I cannot control my vocabulary] of alot more than your melee mitagation.  </p><p>Anyways, I pvp alot and play a caster type class. With over 460 spell casting and master spells it is a regular fight to roll up on a green con, lvl 72 and get 3-5 resists in a row.  Sony might think thats cool but then if that green con is a swash, brig, or any other melee class they hit my like i'm grey to them.  50% avoidance doesn't even seem to matter vs someone 8 levels below.  After a bunch of fights with every melee class green- even (80) it seems they rarely miss, even with auto attacks, more than 3 times the whole fight while most of the fights vs blues and even their hit rate is 100%.  And with the melee dps in T8 swash/brig can drop anyone is what 3-4 seconds? </p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;"><u>So my question is why is melee favored heavly in pvp over spell casting?</u></span></b></p></blockquote><p>HAHA tell that to the wizzy who one shotted 3 people in my group with fission the other day, all of which had over 9k hps.</p><p>Im a monk with nearly 10k pvp kills and a Master title and I still have some really good fights against all kinds of mages, assuming they are a good pvper. I'm a firm believer that the player makes alot more difference than the class and gear.  I know alot of people who have OP toons who cannot fight there way out of a paper bag....FACT</p><p>IMO good pvpers who happen to play mages actually do very well for themselves and dont whine about it.  The problem is alot of not so good pvpers chose mages and then complain when they get spanked.  It is my opinion that they would also be mediocre at best with any melee class they chose </p></blockquote><p>I had to stop at this one.  First off, if 3 people in your group got hit with fission, they deserved to die.  Fission is a very difficult spell to get off in pvp, particularly against melee classes that move around.  Its got a pretty obvious casting   graphic if your settings are high enough, learn that graphic and when you see it, get yourself 10+ meters away from wizard.  Fussion will get resisted just as easy as any other spell.</p><p>Now on the flip side, A zerker with a Nathsar shortsword, a very easy weapon to get, can walk up, hit autoattack, and instantly do 2.5k, and if he gets a double attack, which isnt hard to do, kick that up to 5k dmg.  Thats instant, before anything else happens, your now 2k-5k less hitpoints, and nothing has even happened yet.</p><p>That is where the melee vs caster balance problem is.  It takes casting time for a mage/healer to start a pvp fight, where as Rangers/Melee types hit one button, and with the right weapon can instantly do half your damage+ before the fight even starts.</p><p>If they changed Auto attack to delay with the weapon, meaning you hit autoattack, and you dont get your first swing till the delay of the weapon counts down, it might be a bit more balanced.  But as of right now Melee types really have it easy.  Get a 6sec delay weapon, hit auto attack.</p></blockquote>I guess he can't understand the log i originally posted vs Cheesehunter. less than 1 second he does almost 7k dmg, including interupts.    That's how most fights I encounter end up.  I don't see what is so [Removed for Content] hard to understand with logged proof right in front of their faces. 

[Grimfort]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Grimfort, log on tonight, and count jsut how many PVP'n necros are on Venekor at 80, then maybe your GENIUS will prevail. NOONE Plays the [I cannot control my vocabulary] class cause everyone knows they are broken.  On venekor, we have me, lenthar, Mortdujour(sp?), and 1 other i cannot remember name of atm.  From that list, we see me out in the wild more than anyone else, and i wonder why?  Maybe if you would instyead of trying to de-rail us getting some help, and learning the issues, and the reasoning just WHY you don't see 100's of necrmancers posting , you would understand.  In the lower tiers you will find  an average amount of lower lvl necro's which in those tiers were pretty [I cannot control my vocabulary] good in pvp. T7 and above is all downhill. And no this is NOT jsut another scouts OP rant, this is with all classes we encounter, we can kill conjies pretty easily, thats about it.   Any manashieleded sorcerer is a very tough fight for a dot dmg based class, then jump us into healer fights and since they get cures alot of our dots don't do much, so it relies more on melee pets to do the work, then they get heals and its easy to outheal a dot ticking for 300-600 every couple seconds. Tanks, too many hp's to deal with while being stunned the entrie fight.  Monks, = perma stun, dead in 5 seconds.  Please stop worrying so much about my posting for help since its obviously not your forte,a nd you obviously are very naive about the class itself.    </blockquote><p>I did not say I was a genius. SGD have 2 T8 necros, lenthar as you have said (who hasnt been seen for ages) and my brother who does not even bother playing his necro anymore. I am not trying to derail "your cause", but why on earth would I bother investigating why your class is gimped when I'm fairly certain SoE wont do jack for "you". I've read your posts and believe your statements, doesn't mean I want SoE to stop developing my class and help yours out <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Btw, I dont see an us anywhere, just you, you and... ooo look you!</p><p>I don't care that you want to make every post about your class, you pay your bill, thats your choice, but don't drag everyone (ie me) into your righteous cause by quoting players and trying to tell them how wrong they are because your class is tripe in pvp. Thats all I ask.</p><p>To quote you about being naive, SKs are also dot based <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. A necro is probly the best support class for an SK due to both using disease based spells, I've grouped with both SGD necros many a time in PvE and they are very useful. PvP, I feel for ya buddy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>I just started to play pvp with my t8 Necro "Guld" and yeah sometimes I have no chance against melee classes such as a good brusier or swash (if use pots) Otherwise I can kill most of the classes that I meet, rangers is one of the easy classes. See em first sen Scoutpet with teleport then taunt from the STA line after that you pull back your pet to fear the melee class, root, slow, LB, gluttony (DMG is seen as Consume) then kite the on your are figthing. </p><p> I have no good gear or spells, and it´s not that hard to know where the scouts are and see em. Yes I die alot to the "good" pvpers with rigth classes but they do aboblutley dont "own" me. And Necros can kill mages with Manashiled easy too.</p><p> Necro are not as bad as everyone said but sure they could use some help from SoE to get better. </p>

[Grimfort]

I think I've seen you on bb docks recently, I can't do a thing against scouts or monks either. I've given up accepting duels from such classes unless I'm feeling like dying.

[Enoe]

Guld you play your class much better then avg necro. You have totally different tactic - this is why i died on 1st 2 times. Anyway you gave me best 4-5 fights i have with necro since RoK. And this is why i dont understand ppl moaning about their class. Every class have their strong and weak sides. Every class when played well can be dangerous. Grimfort i dueled with you a lot on every duels session. Every week you progress. Every week you are harder to beat. As i remember last week you killed Ragefist and me too (well 1 of 4 trys but still you can do it). I think you are on good way to be good and dangerous SK. I havent seen Trison for a while - this guy was best SK i ve seen - vs him i had no chance at all.So just a thought. SK  can be deadly in PVP vs most of class - maybe you just need more good gear/masters and little more pvp expirience.

[Faenril]

I heard Trison got retired a while ago. We used to have great fights end of T7, he was by far the toughest SK I knew. I think in tier 8 they are a bit less powerful against pure melee classes, but probably a good SK can still own his share of faces <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Guld, you are probably the best T8 necro on venekor currently, hands down. You gave me the "[Removed for Content] he's gonna kill me" feeling several times, when all your spells land and your DPS starts rolling...The problem is you are so squishy than one resist at the wrong time and it's over. It's gonna be very interesting when you gear up, keep on trying plz <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> PS: in case you didn't notice, I wouldn't mind fighting Ulrish once in a while btw <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Grimfort]

<p>Trison moved to naggy, however hes just hung up his boots this week. Just spoke to him the other night actually, hes running outta targets on naggy as well and is off to conan. He was always v-well kitted out and knew how to fight different classes, thats where I'm lacking as I'm nicely geared now but still loose more often than win (I didnt bother pvping until I was 70), I did however take down my first sqashy in T8 the other night in duels. </p><p>When you are at the top of your game, its amazing how different classes can be played. I find scout classes generally good to excelllent most of the time (OP lol!), healers the same (but thats my class type tbh) but everyone else can make a big difference. I was fighting an illusionist (er... forget his name) and due to new tactics beat him twice, then another illusionist came on (and again, I forget name, but hes GOOD) and I got pwned, absolutly pwned. Same with paladins, I beat one in the duels and it was a close fight, then fought another out in the open and nothing worked the same as the first time around.  Thats why I like the duels, you learn loads, esp if your crap <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>Yeah Trison is on Naga, and he is quiting and moving to AoC. I was thinking about that too. Haha Ulrish is so weak now he can´t realy do anything against melee classes. He was awsome in t7 but not on t8 since no big uppdraged on the heals or dps. But I had some nice figths against you at the start of RoK</p><p>Aye when I get some M1 and pvp gear I can proly kill moast "good" pvpers. the only weakness I see with Necro is the lack of Defence. Just look when you come in melee range to me Faerie I die in max 2-5 sek. </p>

[Sightless]

<p>Guld you always give Cyst a run for his money, and I love fighting you. Unfortunately, you've shown me how to beat other classes. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>P.S. I don't think I've resisted your fear yet, have I? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

Hmm you have resisted some but I have 5 AAs to lower resist in my Fear. But if my fear resists I´m so dead. But I have a new tactic for you if you use pots now :p

[Sightless]

<cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm you have resisted some but I have 5 AAs to lower resist in my Fear. But if my fear resists I´m so dead. But I have a new tactic for you if you use pots now :p </blockquote><p>I look forward to seeing it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>You're the best Necromancer I've ever fought, and you make the class challenging to fight. The one time I didn't use a pot to remove your fear, you beat me.</p>

[Dracot]

<cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Grimfort, log on tonight, and count jsut how many PVP'n necros are on Venekor at 80, then maybe your GENIUS will prevail. NOONE Plays the [I cannot control my vocabulary] class cause everyone knows they are broken.  On venekor, we have me, lenthar, Mortdujour(sp?), and 1 other i cannot remember name of atm.  From that list, we see me out in the wild more than anyone else, and i wonder why?  Maybe if you would instyead of trying to de-rail us getting some help, and learning the issues, and the reasoning just WHY you don't see 100's of necrmancers posting , you would understand.  In the lower tiers you will find  an average amount of lower lvl necro's which in those tiers were pretty [I cannot control my vocabulary] good in pvp. T7 and above is all downhill. And no this is NOT jsut another scouts OP rant, this is with all classes we encounter, we can kill conjies pretty easily, thats about it.   Any manashieleded sorcerer is a very tough fight for a dot dmg based class, then jump us into healer fights and since they get cures alot of our dots don't do much, so it relies more on melee pets to do the work, then they get heals and its easy to outheal a dot ticking for 300-600 every couple seconds. Tanks, too many hp's to deal with while being stunned the entrie fight.  Monks, = perma stun, dead in 5 seconds.  Please stop worrying so much about my posting for help since its obviously not your forte,a nd you obviously are very naive about the class itself.    </blockquote><p>I did not say I was a genius. SGD have 2 T8 necros, lenthar as you have said (who hasnt been seen for ages) and my brother who does not even bother playing his necro anymore. I am not trying to derail "your cause", but why on earth would I bother investigating why your class is gimped when I'm fairly certain SoE wont do jack for "you". I've read your posts and believe your statements, doesn't mean I want SoE to stop developing my class and help yours out <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />. Btw, I dont see an us anywhere, just you, you and... ooo look you!</p><p>I don't care that you want to make every post about your class, you pay your bill, thats your choice, but don't drag everyone (ie me) into your righteous cause by quoting players and trying to tell them how wrong they are because your class is tripe in pvp. Thats all I ask.</p><p>To quote you about being naive, SKs are also dot based <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />. A necro is probly the best support class for an SK due to both using disease based spells, I've grouped with both SGD necros many a time in PvE and they are very useful. PvP, I feel for ya buddy <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />.</p></blockquote>Wow you just answered the whole question in the first line.  2 necros lenthar hasnt been on and your own brother who won't bother playing it anymore.  Now if the people who DO play the necros would chime in and we have had a few threads derailed into oblivion over and over again by scouts disagreeing when we explain whats wrong, maybe WE would get some help. As for your Dot based sk, HT + plate armor, plus Aa ability to make jsut about every spell actually heal you, and so on, would be a dream come true for a necro. Its no comparison.  In pve we rock 100% i won't agrue it ever, the problem is this is a pvp based server, and since NONE of those abilities do jack in pvp they need to be addressed.

[Dracot]

<p>Guld do me a favor, PM me your pvp AA setup, and a bit of your strategy, cause even Madevil gave up after ROK went live.  I've noticed your'e talking about killing mages mostly here, whats your scout tactics?  I've looked up your profile and yes you got a bit more kills than me but the ratio doesn't seem all that impressive vs what most other clsses are able.</p><p>and in total agreeanc with you, if anyone has ever read what i was saying about our class is ive simply asked for DEFENSE, not op powers , jsut defense enough to use our abilities b4 we die or at least try.</p><p>Oh and if rangers are so EASY as you stated, how do you deal with Cheeshunters .5second kills?</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

haha sure I can PM you, and I´m sure that moast pvpers I figth can admit that i dont care about my KpD ratio or Title. I go to Qetnos and figth all Qs I can find and often gets ganked alot of more then 1 Q. I figth ppl if the want rematch even if I´m sure to loose.

[Grimfort]

<p>Fair statement. I would mention tho that at T8 PT does not a useful spell make, its a 1k heal. Instant casting is useful and its a GREAT thing to use against the greys trying to leech fame at the bb docks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p>

[Dracot]

<cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fair statement. I would mention tho that at T8 PT does not a useful spell make, its a 1k heal. Instant casting is useful and its a GREAT thing to use against the greys trying to leech fame at the bb docks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />.</p></blockquote>I'll trade that for my 1kcritical dmg lifetap that reverts about 600 health back to me.

[Sightless]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Guld do me a favor, PM me your pvp AA setup, and a bit of your strategy, cause even Madevil gave up after ROK went live.  I've noticed your'e talking about killing mages mostly here, whats your scout tactics?  I've looked up your profile and yes you got a bit more kills than me but the ratio doesn't seem all that impressive vs what most other clsses are able.</p><p>and in total agreeanc with you, if anyone has ever read what i was saying about our class is ive simply asked for DEFENSE, not op powers , jsut defense enough to use our abilities b4 we die or at least try.</p><p>Oh and if rangers are so EASY as you stated, how do you deal with Cheeshunters .5second kills?</p></blockquote>Guld goes INTO Qeynos and fights people and often gets jumped by a mob of Qeynosians. So don't go harping on his KvD without knowing this guy fights against all odds.

[Guld_Ulrish]

First of all never let a ranger get his Sniper Arrow of. Then I have killed Cheeshunster or what his name was. And IF they get Sniper Arrow of fear and use the heal Neck, Life tap and the heal from WIS and you have full hp agian. and use taunt so he dont kill you rigth afther Sniper arrow.

[Enoe]

DracotGuld killed me- guardian, gave very hard time faerie- swashy so it is not about casters only.So you see there is way to fight other classes with what necro has now. But you seem to not understand it. I tried to tell it in 101 topics u made to moan how weak necro is. Agree there are class easier to play and one harder. Necro is the 2nd one but with good skilled player behind keyboard it is still very dangerous class. Maybe you need some love from sony with defence. But you want to nerf all and improve your class <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />You are on good path now - learn from Guld how to pvp. This guy really knows how to play his class. And running constantly below 50% hp doesn't help pvp either <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>One thing for the defence to necros could be that under 30 sek you pet takes all CA/spells that would be like an "Manashield" if you used the tank pet <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Aithanarid]

I don't have any problems with PvP and the damage output from the melees or caster. Sometimes u will win, sometimes not, but what really sucks after the last LU is that the DPS on raids from the casters is more than bad...i know how to play my wizard and i know what is possible, but....to get resist after resist and to see that u about 600 - 1200 dps after the melees that <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Its hard enough to raid on a pvp server, but now its more than hard to be with the melees on the dps list...

[Guld_Ulrish]

I dont have that problem as necro, I do about 2 - 3,5k Zone. Use to be atleast top 3 Zone.

[Grimfort]

<cite>Enoe wrote Necro is the 2nd one but with good skilled player behind keyboard it is still very dangerous class. Whats the 1st <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Gimet]

<p>Scouts- Imbued and Poison Procs</p><p>Fighters- Imbued Procs</p><p>Priests- Imbued Procs (Only if they sit there melee'ing)</p><p>Mages- Imbued Procs (Once again, only if they sit there melee'ing)</p><p>Maybe Casters (Priests and Mages) should get items that proc on spell casting instead of melee...or keep the same procs and make them proc with spell casting. And scouts only get ONE or the OTHER when it comes to Imbued and poison.</p><p>Just a thought.</p>

[Dracot]

<cite>Enoe wrote:</cite><blockquote>DracotGuld killed me- guardian, gave very hard time faerie- swashy so it is not about casters only.So you see there is way to fight other classes with what necro has now. But you seem to not understand it. I tried to tell it in 101 topics u made to moan how weak necro is. Agree there are class easier to play and one harder. Necro is the 2nd one but with good skilled player behind keyboard it is still very dangerous class. Maybe you need some love from sony with defence. But you want to nerf all and improve your class <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />">You are on good path now - learn from Guld how to pvp. This guy really knows how to play his class. And running constantly below 50% hp doesn't help pvp either <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></blockquote><p>Where the [I cannot control my vocabulary] did i call for nerf mr i raid everynight vs solo's?  And lets get onto a new subject of your little friend on the docks tonight who blew my immunity so you and your godamn x2 could get a free kill, do me a faovr Enoe, I had respect for you during duels, it was fun, but if your'e going to come here and post BS to the community about 1 player who's KvD isnt all that great and claim the class is working, don't bother. </p><p>the info Guld gave me is the exact stuf we been using for months.  Probel is YES a necro CAn kill things.  Thing is other classes ahve it so godamn easy it takes a split second to kill a necro, a necro ahs to use actual strats vs EVERY other class in game.  Ranger for example= stealth/track/pick/choose target, fire off 3 ca's in under 2 seconds and player dies.  Wizard, 2 high hitting nukes can drop anyone ina  split second if done right, swashie (we all know) the list goes on, but tell me what is the PERFECT necro outline that your'e claiming this person has? ther isn't one, its all luck of the draw on fears, snares, roots reacting correctly the time of the fight. He isn't doing one thing differently than myslef or madevil ever did in the past, it doesn't account to make the class playable in pvp.  Your'e a good solo guard i won't take that from you, but really man when u run with a x2 popping immunities, it really blows respect lvl's and its really ahrd to discuss anyhting cilvily anymore.</p><p>Oh if i choose to keep myself below 50% health to prevent u so skilled x2's from killing me solo, tough, find another to deal with, i don't give free updates if i can prevent it.</p>

[Dracot]

<cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont have that problem as necro, I do about 2 - 3,5k Zone. Use to be atleast top 3 Zone. </blockquote>PVE we kick as still guld, it hard to take away our raid dps.  Wish i could use some of that in pvp to be honest.  Good point u make here though, we have incredible sustaine dps.  Thats due to our constant dots and abilities, which u know however is our downfall in pvp.  We'd be gods in pvp if we had TIME to do anything.

[Dracot]

<cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enoe wroteNecro is the 2nd one but with good skilled player behind keyboard it is still very dangerous class.Whats the 1st <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />I'm curious also what is the 1st?</cite></blockquote>

[Sightless]

<p>Every time I've seen other necro's tell you they have a lot of success, and others have seen their success, you go on about how they're really not that good, yada, yada. That's down right insulting. Have you even LOOKED at the Necromancer PvP leader boards, seriously? There are some numbers that are easily comparable to any other class in the game.</p><p>Guld is a very tough fight for me on my Ranger, and my Warlock. I think you could learn something from Guld, if you wanted to. If you were doing the exact same thing Guld does, I would be able to say you're hard to kill, but I can't. So Guld HAS to be doing something different than you, or better. This is your chance to learn, but you are not wanting to take it, and that is painful to see. Instead you're throwing around insults.</p><p>Now I'm not saying Necromancers don't need some kind of help, but for crying out loud. Guld knows his stuff, and shows the class has some potential.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One thing for the defence to necros could be that under 30 sek you pet takes all CA/spells that would be like an "Manashield" if you used the tank pet <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p></blockquote>OR just make the tank pets actually taunt.

[R]

<p>Playing a necro in his late 40's and lately only got those 3 seconds fights when the opponent been a full group of equals or someone 10 levels above me. Had a run with a swashy who was 48 against my lvl 43 and I stod my grounds, unfortunatly I had just defeated a mob and had less than 50% health left when he attacked.</p><p> It took him some 20 seconds to dispose of my char. I had him to red when I died ... so all this talk about melee always wins over casters isnt true. It all boils down to how you play and if you know your caster</p>

[KatrinaDeath]

<cite>Rob wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Playing a necro in his late 40's and lately only got those 3 seconds fights when the opponent been a full group of equals or someone 10 levels above me. Had a run with a swashy who was 48 against my lvl 43 and I stod my grounds, unfortunatly I had just defeated a mob and had less than 50% health left when he attacked.</p><p> It took him some 20 seconds to dispose of my char. I had him to red when I died ... so all this talk about melee always wins over casters isnt true. It all boils down to how you play and if you know your caster</p></blockquote><p>I will forewarn you... necros grory tiers are 4-6 after than it does infact take a turn for the worse.</p><p>I do agree that melee owns caster is not always true. Just need to be on your toes if you are a mage.</p>

[Faenril]

<cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One thing for the defence to necros could be that under 30 sek you pet takes all CA/spells that would be like an "Manashield" if you used the tank pet <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p></blockquote>Yes it would be a good idea, and would match well the lore of the class: your pet is ready to sacrifice itself to save you...

[KatrinaDeath]

<cite>Faerie@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes it would be a good idea, and would match well the lore of the class: your pet is ready to sacrifice itself to save you...</blockquote><p>Yes it would be a good idea, and would match well the current state of the class: you're ready to sacrifice yourself for a writ update...</p><p>FIFY!!!</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

Who is your ranger? Or that is maybe a secret? :p

[Sightless]

<cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite><blockquote>Who is your ranger? Or that is maybe a secret? :p</blockquote><p>It's a secret for now. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I'll give you a hint though.. I was stalking you in Terens when a Swashie jumped you.. I was hoping you wouldn't use see stealth totems, and you did, so I was using elevation on the pyramids to stalk you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

haha I have no ide :p Was is you when that Biffles attacked me?

[Hummelch]

Its Demron, he doesnt pvp alot so you might not know him.

[Gimet]

<p>Can I just remind you guys that Necromancers and Conjurors don't suck because we don't know what to do? If we weren't so out of practice of dieing in the first 4 seconds of a fight, or not beign able to cast or even get off of our KB's butts, maybe then we could review our strategies.</p><p>The issue here is not our lack of knowledge, but our lack in the ability to show that knowledge because one CA knocks us into oblivion before we even knew the fight started. If we get the jump, I say we have a 50/50% chance of winning seeing as to how our roots, stuns, and mezzes have potions for them. Scouts and Fighters simply move too fast in a fight when it comes to damage, and it takes us a while to get off 1 spell with you guys beating on us with KBs and interrupts.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

and use chamred pets!! they are relly good combined with Gulttony.

[Roald]

Sure, <a href="http://files.filefront.com/denyonagafenpvpwmv/;9844216;/fileinfo.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Melee</a> classes aren't OP at all....

[Shadow_Viper]

<p>If a caster is having difficulty defeating a melee class in PVP, I highly suggest that they visit their class boards and do a bit of research as well as asking for advice. The class boards a really a great resource for information. I frequently use them for AA spec ideas(as an example). </p><p>Despite what some casters seem to believe. Your spells should not land 100% of the time, with the enemy having no change to counter or react. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Your roots should not hold people 100% of the time with not chance of being resisted or breaking. Nor should your damage spells hit 100% of the time. Debuffs should also not be affecting a player 100% of the time.</p><p>Spell resists are in the game for a reason. Melee classes get resists as well, they're called parries, dodges, and blocks. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  </p><p>So if spell resists are changed, parry, dodge and block chances will need to be changed in the same manner.</p><p>Please remember that each class has it's own special abilities, advantages and disadvantages. If someone is having a problem with a certain class they should visit their class boards and search for information/ask for advice and attempt to improve their skills as a player. Not every class is going to be a good soloer, nor is every class going to shine in a group situation, likewise some classes perform better than others in raids. </p>

[Shadow_Viper]

<cite>Crimmyblues wrote:</cite><blockquote>..couldn't you have a tank taunt people away from you while you do your job?</blockquote>QFE <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Gimet]

<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If a caster is having difficulty defeating a melee class in PVP, I highly suggest that they visit their class boards and do a bit of research as well as asking for advice. The class boards a really a great resource for information. I frequently use them for AA spec ideas(as an example). </p><p>Despite what some casters seem to believe. Your spells should not land 100% of the time, with the enemy having no change to counter or react. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Your roots should not hold people 100% of the time with not chance of being resisted or breaking. Nor should your damage spells hit 100% of the time. Debuffs should also not be affecting a player 100% of the time.</p><p>Spell resists are in the game for a reason. Melee classes get resists as well, they're called parries, dodges, and blocks. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  </p><p>So if spell resists are changed, parry, dodge and block chances will need to be changed in the same manner.</p><p>Please remember that each class has it's own special abilities, advantages and disadvantages. If someone is having a problem with a certain class they should visit their class boards and search for information/ask for advice and attempt to improve their skills as a player. Not every class is going to be a good soloer, nor is every class going to shine in a group situation, likewise some classes perform better than others in raids. </p></blockquote><p>I don't know if you're ignorant, or just blind. The problem is not our tactics, but the time we have to use them. Tell me, have you seen any class boards with topics that say "WHat strategy to use in a one second fight?"</p><p>You seem to be ignoring the parses, and you obviously have never played a Mage before with how you always lecture L2P to Mages. This is only level 80, there will be far more level caps beyond this, and if it's not fixed now resists will only get worse.</p><p>Everything you said in this post is completely useless when it comes to mages dieing in 1 second.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

I agree, there is like 1 parry on 10 resists too. And we only have spells no Autoattack wich does 800-1,5k with melee weapons and 1k-2,5k range on a mage.

[Sightless]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sure, <a rel="nofollow" href="http://files.filefront.com/denyonagafenpvpwmv/;9844216;/fileinfo.html" target="_blank">Melee</a> classes aren't OP at all....</blockquote>I've seen the same thing from Brigands, but I have never seen you show a Freeport fraps, and claim something is overpowered. A Fraps doesn't tell the truth either, generally it's only a persons wins, rarely their losses.

[Roald]

<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sure, <a rel="nofollow" href="http://files.filefront.com/denyonagafenpvpwmv/;9844216;/fileinfo.html" target="_blank">Melee</a> classes aren't OP at all....</blockquote>I've seen the same thing from Brigands, but I have never seen you show a Freeport fraps, and claim something is overpowered. A Fraps doesn't tell the truth either, generally it's only a persons wins, rarely their losses.</blockquote>Odd, Im pretty sure this was a Caster vs Melee thread. Now I could be wrong, but isnt brigand a melee class too?

[DeathLizard]

<p>I've suggested this before and I'll suggest it again. Have all classes available to people on test server at level 80. That way someone who can't see why necros are so frustrated can try one out and see how rediculous class balance is in eq2. I used to pvp alot solo when the level cap was 70, and they simply are a joke. I've tried it in group settings since then, and its always the same, an opposing scout just 2 or 3 shots me, and the healers have no chance of keeping up with it. The imbalance is so bad I hardly even log the toon on anymore, which is kinda sad since I enjoy the class. </p><p>Please sony, do something about the imbalance. Try tweaks on test servers, either giving a way for casters to avoid the extreme burst dps of certain classes, or fix resists rate so they can do comperable damage in return. I'm a firm beliver that a fight shouldnt be pre determined by what classes are fighting each other, but by the players skill levels. Give me a reason to log my necro back on.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>Ide for a new Necro ability.</p><p>Caster will be teleported 15m from target in random direction.</p><p>Casters physical mitigation will be increased by 1000 for 15 seconds.</p><p>Caster will absorb 2 attacks.</p><p>Target will be stuned for 5 seconds.</p><p>This spell can´t be resited.</p><p>Instant Casting.</p><p>1 minute recast.</p>

[Jacquotte]

<cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ide for a new Necro ability.</p><p>Caster will be teleported 15m from target in random direction.</p><p>Casters physical mitigation will be increased by 1000</p><p>Caster will absorb 2 attacks</p><p>Target will be stuned for 5 seconds</p><p>This spell can´t be resited</p><p>Instant Casting.</p><p>1 minute recast.</p></blockquote><p>/applaud</p><p> ... and the rangers duck back into the woods ...</p>

[KatrinaDeath]

You're taking the wrong approach... Just give Necros Harm Touch and Evac.

[Eblis]

Would this be too much to ask for? (summoners in general) A 'Blink' spell that actually works.  Maybe a short range random teleport that makes you invisible. It could give the mage enough time to get a spell off, plan their next move, or just survive the onslaught for a few moments. Something that actually works like magic, since we are a 'Mage' class. A scout pet that might fire off a bow randomly when an enemy gets out of a certain melee range. Perhaps with a snare, blur/knockdown effect. It dosent even have to work 100% of  the time, I would just like to see my scout pet shoot something. Of course everything is resistable. Taunts for the tank pet that work, maybe some kind of pet intercept ability would be cool. Being able to move a few steps while casting. The more focus, maybe the better we can cast on the move. I'm not asking to run 100 yards and cast spells...Just a few steps in any direction.  Let all mage classes be able to move while casting invis. If bows can be fired while moving, certainly magicians can move a little while casting! Call servant spell for all pet classes that is instant cast on a short timer...30 secs or whatever it is now is ridiculous. Finally I would like Gnomes to be able to appear older with more WRINKLES! Either way I'll still be playing my Necro and having fun with it...

[Shadow_Viper]

<p>Also, for casters that are having problems with melee classes: I would highly suggest asking your tank to taunt a little more and your healer to throw a few more heals your way. Should solve the problem <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>There's a reason mages are called glass cannons.</p>

[Shadow_Viper]

<cite>Gimet@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If a caster is having difficulty defeating a melee class in PVP, I highly suggest that they visit their class boards and do a bit of research as well as asking for advice. The class boards a really a great resource for information. I frequently use them for AA spec ideas(as an example). </p><p>Despite what some casters seem to believe. Your spells should not land 100% of the time, with the enemy having no change to counter or react. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Your roots should not hold people 100% of the time with not chance of being resisted or breaking. Nor should your damage spells hit 100% of the time. Debuffs should also not be affecting a player 100% of the time.</p><p>Spell resists are in the game for a reason. Melee classes get resists as well, they're called parries, dodges, and blocks. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  </p><p>So if spell resists are changed, parry, dodge and block chances will need to be changed in the same manner.</p><p>Please remember that each class has it's own special abilities, advantages and disadvantages. If someone is having a problem with a certain class they should visit their class boards and search for information/ask for advice and attempt to improve their skills as a player. Not every class is going to be a good soloer, nor is every class going to shine in a group situation, likewise some classes perform better than others in raids. </p></blockquote><p>I don't know if you're ignorant, or just blind. The problem is not our tactics, but the time we have to use them. Tell me, have you seen any class boards with topics that say "WHat strategy to use in a one second fight?"</p><p>You seem to be ignoring the parses, and you obviously have never played a Mage before with how you always lecture L2P to Mages. This is only level 80, there will be far more level caps beyond this, and if it's not fixed now resists will only get worse.</p><p>Everything you said in this post is completely useless when it comes to mages dieing in 1 second.</p></blockquote><p>So because you disagree with my opinions that makes me ignorant and/or blind. Right... <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Please post some logs/fraps of these "one-second fights" </p><p>Right, everything I said in that post is useless because you're unwilling to do a bit of a research and improve your skills as a player. My apologies. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Dracot]

<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Every time I've seen other necro's tell you they have a lot of success, and others have seen their success, you go on about how they're really not that good, yada, yada. That's down right insulting. Have you even LOOKED at the Necromancer PvP leader boards, seriously? There are some numbers that are easily comparable to any other class in the game.</p><p>Guld is a very tough fight for me on my Ranger, and my Warlock. I think you could learn something from Guld, if you wanted to. If you were doing the exact same thing Guld does, I would be able to say you're hard to kill, but I can't. So Guld HAS to be doing something different than you, or better. This is your chance to learn, but you are not wanting to take it, and that is painful to see. Instead you're throwing around insults.</p><p>Now I'm not saying Necromancers don't need some kind of help, but for crying out loud. Guld knows his stuff, and shows the class has some potential.</p></blockquote>Look at his kill bud, only one necro posted has tons of kills and thats cause he's DOM and they just anhilate everyone in the path as a raid.  Of course a necro ina  x2+ raid willa ccumulate a lot of kills.  show me at least 1 dozen necros at 80 with a 8k+ kill lsit, they don't exist.  Its not about learning, its about the class being [Removed for Content] up.  Guld might be in your opinion a better player but he has less than 3k kills in almost 2 years, same as myself, yet the average pvp'r has well over 4k+ kills at 80.  Me and Guld have talked in PM's his AA spec is jsut about identical to mine, his tactics same as every necro out there, maybe sitting around in QH is a better idea, more chance of a 1 vs 1 there i guess, and less chances of runners.  Really honestly until you play the [Removed for Content] clas in t8 you have NO idea [Removed for Content] your talking about, theres no possible way to understand.

[Dracot]

<cite>Rob wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Playing a necro in his late 40's and lately only got those 3 seconds fights when the opponent been a full group of equals or someone 10 levels above me. Had a run with a swashy who was 48 against my lvl 43 and I stod my grounds, unfortunatly I had just defeated a mob and had less than 50% health left when he attacked.</p><p> It took him some 20 seconds to dispose of my char. I had him to red when I died ... so all this talk about melee always wins over casters isnt true. It all boils down to how you play and if you know your caster</p></blockquote>get to 80 then lets talk.

[Dracot]

<cite>Faerie@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One thing for the defence to necros could be that under 30 sek you pet takes all CA/spells that would be like an "Manashield" if you used the tank pet <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></p></blockquote>Yes it would be a good idea, and would match well the lore of the class: your pet is ready to sacrifice itself to save you...</blockquote>Really ive been suggesting this for almost 2 years now, cept his is alter version that honestly i like better.  But i been saying give the tankpet the skill to abosrb 50% inc dmg, that way you don't have a 11k hp pet and a 6k+ caster to kill.  But you would fire dmg into the caster and pet would take 50% the dmg. Worked perfectly for warlocks inWoW when the calss was considered broken, after that and a bit of skill though with splitting health, made all the difference, not OP, jsut gave them time to work.

[Shadow_Viper]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Every time I've seen other necro's tell you they have a lot of success, and others have seen their success, you go on about how they're really not that good, yada, yada. That's down right insulting. Have you even LOOKED at the Necromancer PvP leader boards, seriously? There are some numbers that are easily comparable to any other class in the game.</p><p>Guld is a very tough fight for me on my Ranger, and my Warlock. I think you could learn something from Guld, if you wanted to. If you were doing the exact same thing Guld does, I would be able to say you're hard to kill, but I can't. So Guld HAS to be doing something different than you, or better. This is your chance to learn, but you are not wanting to take it, and that is painful to see. Instead you're throwing around insults.</p><p>Now I'm not saying Necromancers don't need some kind of help, but for crying out loud. Guld knows his stuff, and shows the class has some potential.</p></blockquote>Look at his kill bud, only one necro posted has tons of kills and thats cause he's DOM and they just anhilate everyone in the path as a raid.  Of course a necro ina  x2+ raid willa ccumulate a lot of kills.  show me at least 1 dozen necros at 80 with a 8k+ kill lsit, they don't exist.  Its not about learning, its about the class being [I cannot control my vocabulary] up.  Guld might be in your opinion a better player but he has less than 3k kills in almost 2 years, same as myself, yet the average pvp'r has well over 4k+ kills at 80.  Me and Guld have talked in PM's his AA spec is jsut about identical to mine, his tactics same as every necro out there, maybe sitting around in QH is a better idea, more chance of a 1 vs 1 there i guess, and less chances of runners.  Really honestly until you play the [I cannot control my vocabulary] clas in t8 you have NO idea [I cannot control my vocabulary] your talking about, theres no possible way to understand.</blockquote>Try grouping up and raiding more <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Shadow_Viper]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Faerie@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One thing for the defence to necros could be that under 30 sek you pet takes all CA/spells that would be like an "Manashield" if you used the tank pet <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></p></blockquote>Yes it would be a good idea, and would match well the lore of the class: your pet is ready to sacrifice itself to save you...</blockquote>Really ive been suggesting this for almost 2 years now, cept his is alter version that honestly i like better.  But i been saying give the tankpet the skill to abosrb 50% inc dmg, that way you don't have a 11k hp pet and a 6k+ caster to kill.  But you would fire dmg into the caster and pet would take 50% the dmg. Worked perfectly for warlocks inWoW when the calss was considered broken, after that and a bit of skill though with splitting health, made all the difference, not OP, jsut gave them time to work.</blockquote>That is actually a great idea.

[Dracot]

<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If a caster is having difficulty defeating a melee class in PVP, I highly suggest that they visit their class boards and do a bit of research as well as asking for advice. The class boards a really a great resource for information. I frequently use them for AA spec ideas(as an example). <span style="color: #cc0000;">Your hotkeyed response to ANY thread from a caster, which sorry bud, is WRONG, we've checked the necro boards last month and proved you wrong then wanna go again?</span></p><p>Despite what some casters seem to believe. Your spells should not land 100% of the time, with the enemy having no change to counter or react. <span style="color: #cc0000;">And your melee skills should? No chance to counter? This should be the award winning statement of the year in eq2 pvp.</span></p><p>Your roots should not hold people 100% of the time with not chance of being resisted or breaking. Nor should your damage spells hit 100% of the time. Debuffs should also not be affecting a player 100% of the time.<span style="color: #cc0000;"> How bout 1% the time? That enough for you, since your stuff is still hitting for 100% ALL THE TIME?</span></p><p>Spell resists are in the game for a reason. Melee classes get resists as well, they're called parries, dodges, and blocks. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  <span style="color: #cc0000;">I get AA fopr this to boost it also, up to almost 45% now, never works in pvp, but DOES work in pve, next try, wrong on 4 accoutns in this thread so far bud.</span></p><p>So if spell resists are changed, parry, dodge and block chances will need to be changed in the same manner.<span style="color: #cc0000;">You mean they might actually WORK now in pvp?</span></p><p>Please remember that each class has it's own special abilities, advantages and disadvantages. If someone is having a problem with a certain class they should visit their class boards and search for information/ask for advice and attempt to improve their skills as a player. Not every class is going to be a good soloer, nor is every class going to shine in a group situation, likewise some classes perform better than others in raids. <span style="color: #cc0000;">Go in and tell this to the encromancer forums bud, they will laff you into oblivion, with statements liek aummm "A necro isn't suposed to be a solo class.  Jesus dude do you even have a clue about necrmancer lore and jsut WHY we might have a pet and EVERY tool in the book to ALLOW solo play?</span></p></blockquote>

[Dracot]

<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crimmyblues wrote:</cite><blockquote>..couldn't you have a tank taunt people away from you while you do your job?</blockquote>QFE <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>1 time every 10 seconds and very resistable, nice try scout shoo.</p>

[Dracot]

<cite>Gimet@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If a caster is having difficulty defeating a melee class in PVP, I highly suggest that they visit their class boards and do a bit of research as well as asking for advice. The class boards a really a great resource for information. I frequently use them for AA spec ideas(as an example). </p><p>Despite what some casters seem to believe. Your spells should not land 100% of the time, with the enemy having no change to counter or react. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Your roots should not hold people 100% of the time with not chance of being resisted or breaking. Nor should your damage spells hit 100% of the time. Debuffs should also not be affecting a player 100% of the time.</p><p>Spell resists are in the game for a reason. Melee classes get resists as well, they're called parries, dodges, and blocks. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  </p><p>So if spell resists are changed, parry, dodge and block chances will need to be changed in the same manner.</p><p>Please remember that each class has it's own special abilities, advantages and disadvantages. If someone is having a problem with a certain class they should visit their class boards and search for information/ask for advice and attempt to improve their skills as a player. Not every class is going to be a good soloer, nor is every class going to shine in a group situation, likewise some classes perform better than others in raids. </p></blockquote><p>I don't know if you're ignorant, or just blind. The problem is not our tactics, but the time we have to use them. Tell me, have you seen any class boards with topics that say "WHat strategy to use in a one second fight?"</p><p>You seem to be ignoring the parses, and you obviously have never played a Mage before with how you always lecture L2P to Mages. This is only level 80, there will be far more level caps beyond this, and if it's not fixed now resists will only get worse.</p><p>Everything you said in this post is completely useless when it comes to mages dieing in 1 second.</p></blockquote>He follows every class fix thread and posts the same [Removed for Content] day in day out bud.  NExt he will link to the SCOUT authored "Welcome to the Jungle" sticky to show you how a scout views how eq2 pvp is, even though sony hasnt posted it as fact in the EULA.

[Dracot]

<cite>DeathLizard wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I've suggested this before and I'll suggest it again. Have all classes available to people on test server at level 80. That way someone who can't see why necros are so frustrated can try one out and see how rediculous class balance is in eq2. I used to pvp alot solo when the level cap was 70, and they simply are a joke. I've tried it in group settings since then, and its always the same, an opposing scout just 2 or 3 shots me, and the healers have no chance of keeping up with it. The imbalance is so bad I hardly even log the toon on anymore, which is kinda sad since I enjoy the class. </p><p>Please sony, do something about the imbalance. Try tweaks on test servers, either giving a way for casters to avoid the extreme burst dps of certain classes, or fix resists rate so they can do comperable damage in return. I'm a firm beliver that a fight shouldnt be pre determined by what classes are fighting each other, but by the players skill levels. Give me a reason to log my necro back on.</p></blockquote>3 days of posts to catch up on /sigh, pika your 100% correct. I've done it and with aeralik in zone at the time, his response to the 1 second deaths is simply "Welcome to PVP."

[Dracot]

<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Every time I've seen other necro's tell you they have a lot of success, and others have seen their success, you go on about how they're really not that good, yada, yada. That's down right insulting. Have you even LOOKED at the Necromancer PvP leader boards, seriously? There are some numbers that are easily comparable to any other class in the game.</p><p>Guld is a very tough fight for me on my Ranger, and my Warlock. I think you could learn something from Guld, if you wanted to. If you were doing the exact same thing Guld does, I would be able to say you're hard to kill, but I can't. So Guld HAS to be doing something different than you, or better. This is your chance to learn, but you are not wanting to take it, and that is painful to see. Instead you're throwing around insults.</p><p>Now I'm not saying Necromancers don't need some kind of help, but for crying out loud. Guld knows his stuff, and shows the class has some potential.</p></blockquote>Look at his kill bud, only one necro posted has tons of kills and thats cause he's DOM and they just anhilate everyone in the path as a raid.  Of course a necro ina  x2+ raid willa ccumulate a lot of kills.  show me at least 1 dozen necros at 80 with a 8k+ kill lsit, they don't exist.  Its not about learning, its about the class being [I cannot control my vocabulary] up.  Guld might be in your opinion a better player but he has less than 3k kills in almost 2 years, same as myself, yet the average pvp'r has well over 4k+ kills at 80.  Me and Guld have talked in PM's his AA spec is jsut about identical to mine, his tactics same as every necro out there, maybe sitting around in QH is a better idea, more chance of a 1 vs 1 there i guess, and less chances of runners.  Really honestly until you play the [I cannot control my vocabulary] clas in t8 you have NO idea [I cannot control my vocabulary] your talking about, theres no possible way to understand.</blockquote>Try grouping up and raiding more <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Try less trolling and more learning scout.

[Guld_Ulrish]

haha lol no I dont have 4k+ in pvp kills, maybe cause this was not my main until t8. And I did not pvp before t8.

[Gimet]

<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gimet@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If a caster is having difficulty defeating a melee class in PVP, I highly suggest that they visit their class boards and do a bit of research as well as asking for advice. The class boards a really a great resource for information. I frequently use them for AA spec ideas(as an example). </p><p>Despite what some casters seem to believe. Your spells should not land 100% of the time, with the enemy having no change to counter or react. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Your roots should not hold people 100% of the time with not chance of being resisted or breaking. Nor should your damage spells hit 100% of the time. Debuffs should also not be affecting a player 100% of the time.</p><p>Spell resists are in the game for a reason. Melee classes get resists as well, they're called parries, dodges, and blocks. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  </p><p>So if spell resists are changed, parry, dodge and block chances will need to be changed in the same manner.</p><p>Please remember that each class has it's own special abilities, advantages and disadvantages. If someone is having a problem with a certain class they should visit their class boards and search for information/ask for advice and attempt to improve their skills as a player. Not every class is going to be a good soloer, nor is every class going to shine in a group situation, likewise some classes perform better than others in raids. </p></blockquote><p>I don't know if you're ignorant, or just blind. The problem is not our tactics, but the time we have to use them. Tell me, have you seen any class boards with topics that say "WHat strategy to use in a one second fight?"</p><p>You seem to be ignoring the parses, and you obviously have never played a Mage before with how you always lecture L2P to Mages. This is only level 80, there will be far more level caps beyond this, and if it's not fixed now resists will only get worse.</p><p>Everything you said in this post is completely useless when it comes to mages dieing in 1 second.</p></blockquote><p>So because you disagree with my opinions that makes me ignorant and/or blind. Right... <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Please post some logs/fraps of these "one-second fights" </p><p>Right, everything I said in that post is useless because you're unwilling to do a bit of a research and improve your skills as a player. My apologies. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>I'm going with you're blind. There are like 2 logs in this thread alone, and then tons of videos showing casters being owned by scouts, seeing them coming or not. Resists, AND not even beign able to get spells off.</p><p>Once again, what research is there for me to do when casters are getting killed in one second flat? In scout terms, you can't even press and get away with evac if that were to happen, what do you suggest a Mage do?</p><p>I think you need to stop telling people L2P and stop smelling your sweet "I'm a scout, everything's great coffee" and look around you. There are more threads with logs about this issue than you may realize...and if you're still not convinced then I'm going that you're not blind, or ignorant....but love having your easy-mode that much.</p>

[Gimet]

<p>Log on the first page fo rya, blind man. Provided by Dracot (whether you like what he says or not)</p><p>(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] YOU are critically hit by Sniper Arrow for 4838 crushing damage.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your stoneskin absorbed 412 points of damage!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You convert the force of the blow into pure mana, dispersing it among the group!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] YOU are hit for 0 poison damage.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] YOU are critically hit by Quick Shot for 479 crushing damage.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You were interrupted!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You are stunned!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your spell has been interrupted!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You send your pet in for the attack!(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Cheesehunter hits YOU for 835 crushing damage.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your favor begins to fade.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] The Mark of the Miasmic disappears.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] The power of the Lich begins to wane.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You can no longer see invisible.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Alas, Dracot has died from pain and suffering.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] The Undead Knight decays.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your good-natured Rhino departs.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Alas, Dracot's imp pack has died from pain and suffering.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Alas, Dracot's imp pack has died from pain and suffering.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Alas, Dracot's imp pack has died from pain and suffering.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Your Pack of Imps return to their graves.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] An arbor giant's Pack of Imps return to their graves.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] An arbor giant no longer looks helpless.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] You are no longer stunned.(1205621592)[Sat Mar 15 18:53:12 2008] Cheesehunter has killed you.</p><p>Time the whole fight? 18:53:12 One second.</p>

[Gimet]

<p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz hits YOU for 1747 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz tries to zap YOU with Taunting Blow, but YOU resist.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] YOUR noxious reprieve absorbs 246 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz's caustic poison hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] YOUR Convulsions critically hits Boomz for 1130 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz critically hits YOU for 2446 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] There is no eligible target for this spell.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Uncanny Thrusts critically hits YOU for 853 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Convulsions hits Boomz for 916 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Uncanny Thrusts critically hits YOU for 878 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Convulsions hits Boomz for 1107 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Tyrannical Mind hits Boomz for 233 mental damage.</p><p>(</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] There is no eligible target for this spell.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Eye Point hits YOU for 999 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] The power fades from your body.</p><p>This one by Milambers. Time the whole fight, 21:54:23. Now, why is it that when scouts kill people in one second you guys think you're "well played" But when mages kill people in one second we're "overpowering." I smell people trying to defend their class easy-mode, that would still own very much at PvP with damage taken aay from them.</p>

[Gimet]

<p>One more thing for you, a whole place where videos are clustered in happiness. These often only show their wins and their flawless fights, but compare the number of flawless fights the scouts have compared to the slow damage Enchanters and Summoners, and also observe how fast ANY mage goes down in the PvP fights of any of the scouts. Hell, even the wanna-be scout the Monk.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.arctura.net/Pvp/PvP-Videos.html" target="_blank">http://www.arctura.net/Pvp/PvP-Videos.html</a></p>

[Dracot]

<cite>Gimet@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One more thing for you, a whole place where videos are clustered in happiness. These often only show their wins and their flawless fights, but compare the number of flawless fights the scouts have compared to the slow damage Enchanters and Summoners, and also observe how fast ANY mage goes down in the PvP fights of any of the scouts. Hell, even the wanna-be scout the Monk.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.arctura.net/Pvp/PvP-Videos.html" target="_blank">http://www.arctura.net/Pvp/PvP-Videos.html</a></p></blockquote>i think ya PWNED them dude, notice the no respsonses since heheh...

[Roald]

<p>Boy am I glad I spent all that time and effort to get 8.1k Health as a mage, look how much improvement its made!:</p><p>(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith critically hits YOU for 2377 crushing damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith's caustic poison critically hits YOU for 391 poison damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 489 crushing damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith critically hits YOU for 2377 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 460 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Quick Shot hits YOU for 376 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 708 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 1152 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith has killed you.</p>

[caliburns]

<p>I have a 80 Brigand, 78 wizard, 80 SK and 77 warden, i see it from ALL points of view:</p><p>Scouts and fighters (dps fighters) are seriously overpowered, i can kill any thing on my brigand with in  4 sec, poisons proc all the time, proc AA skills like pirate stab proc every hit, weapons proc all the time, and the DPS is so out of whack that nothing can last for long, now throw in debuffs and stuns my class has with the hate focus and dps buffs and you have a near insta gib.</p><p>Casters dont get enough melee mitigation or health, and they have next to no way to defend them self, unless they are a sorcerer, but then we just pumice stone them..</p><p>People complain about the huge burst damage of caster, that is such BS, I CAN tell you for a fact that i can do more damage in less time then they can with their largest aa boosted spell.</p><p>Also PEOPLE ONLY REMEMBER THE SPELLS THAT HIT, says anything about the 100 spell that resisted before them..... and all it takes is one resists and the caster is dead.</p><p>Roots are potions or pvp trink, snares are cured, stuns are potion damage is warden with potions manna shield is pumiced what ever we have is negated by an easy to get item that has little to no cast time, can casters say the same for melee?</p>

[Dracot]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Boy am I glad I spent all that time and effort to get 8.1k Health as a mage, look how much improvement its made!:</p><p>(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith critically hits YOU for 2377 crushing damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith's caustic poison critically hits YOU for 391 poison damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 489 crushing damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith critically hits YOU for 2377 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 460 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Quick Shot hits YOU for 376 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 708 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 1152 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith has killed you.</p></blockquote>Shhh dude u lasted almost 2 seconds, now they never gunna help us.

[Sightless]

<cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Boy am I glad I spent all that time and effort to get 8.1k Health as a mage, look how much improvement its made!:</p><p>(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith critically hits YOU for 2377 crushing damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith's caustic poison critically hits YOU for 391 poison damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 489 crushing damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith critically hits YOU for 2377 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 460 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Quick Shot hits YOU for 376 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 708 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 1152 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith has killed you.</p></blockquote>Shhh dude u lasted almost 2 seconds, now they never gunna help us.</blockquote>Get some dispersion gear, in fact ALL FOUR PIECES! I looked at both of your gear, and quite frankly it's not PvP gear, it's instance gear. Your decent PvE gear will not help you in PvP.

[Gimet]

<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Boy am I glad I spent all that time and effort to get 8.1k Health as a mage, look how much improvement its made!:</p><p>(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith critically hits YOU for 2377 crushing damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith's caustic poison critically hits YOU for 391 poison damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 489 crushing damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith critically hits YOU for 2377 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 460 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Quick Shot hits YOU for 376 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 708 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 1152 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith has killed you.</p></blockquote>Shhh dude u lasted almost 2 seconds, now they never gunna help us.</blockquote>Get some dispersion gear, in fact ALL FOUR PIECES! I looked at both of your gear, and quite frankly it's not PvP gear, it's instance gear. Your decent PvE gear will not help you in PvP.</blockquote><p>And you don't believe that mages who ARE geared for PvP (without dispersion gear) aren't getting dropped in less that 4 seconds?</p><p>Firstly: The biggest of all MAGE nukes comes from a Sorcerer. The casting time I believe is 4 seconds or so, (if not interrupted), and the damage is big. The lower damaged attacks of Enchanters and Summoners are also hard to get off with casting times, and don't nearly damage as much...that is if resists aren't thrown in the mix.</p><p>Secondly: What gear is used isn't important as you may think for a Mage in these types of situations. We're not going to get awesome mitigation even with great gear...and you're right the dispersion gear will help, but the people wearing them happen to be getting dropped in the end as well. (Logs with people wearing dispersion gear also floating around, I can attempt to find if you'd like) Milambers has lots of health for an 80 Mage...for an extra second in a fight. Only thing I can get off in one second as a conjuror is evocation spec'd spells...which aren't one-shots at al, nowhere near.</p><p>I guess I'm not makign my point clear exactly....but once again I'll say this is level 80. There will be many more levels past 80, and if things aren't fixed now they will only get worse and worse. Even noobs shouldn't be killed in 1 second in PvP, I don't know how anyone can say 1 second kill damage ISN'T Overpowered. It's just like the Ranger, except this time other scouts aren't victims of it. If Mages parried everything Scouts dished out, and we were granted 1 second casting one shot nukes, people would be outraged!</p><p>Where's the equality, hell, even semi-equality in the player-base between Mages and Scouts? Fighters are even beatign on us like never before.</p>

[Sightless]

<p>Gimet</p><p>I also play a Warlock, and in my PvP set, I rarely have to hit Manashield. IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE WHEN YOU HAVE THE APPROPRIATE GEAR FOR PVP. In my instance gear, I always have to trigger manashield to stay alive.</p><p>Even with 7k HP, nearly 10k power (For manashield) there are Brigands I can't possibly beat. Yet Brigands are fine, aren't they?</p><p>It isn't a one second kill either, but I won't get into that. In order for Milambers and Dracot to keep having this happen to them, they're not paying attention, seriously. I ALWAYS wear see stealth goggles and see invis goggles, ALWAYS and I'd wager these two wouldn't do that because they might lose a little of their stats. When I fight Guld with my Warlock the fights are always close, but I've never had a challenge from Dracot so he could use my advice or SOMEONES. Guld can also beat my Ranger.</p>

[Gimet]

<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Gimet</p><p>I also play a Warlock, and in my PvP set, I rarely have to hit Manashield. IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE WHEN YOU HAVE THE APPROPRIATE GEAR FOR PVP. In my instance gear, I always have to trigger manashield to stay alive.</p><p>Even with 7k HP, nearly 10k power (For manashield) there are Brigands I can't possibly beat. Yet Brigands are fine, aren't they?</p><p>It isn't a one second kill either, but I won't get into that. In order for Milambers and Dracot to keep having this happen to them, they're not paying attention, seriously. I ALWAYS wear see stealth goggles and see invis goggles, ALWAYS and I'd wager these two wouldn't do that because they might lose a little of their stats.</p></blockquote><p>My point is not the stupidity or lack of realization of their surroundings, but the fact they're going down in one second. You don't think that alone is an issue coming from ANY class? If you're honestly telling me that you believe Scouts are fine, and not overpowered at the moment, then fine...no way I can convince you to think otherwise. But you can't tell me, whether a class gets a jump on someone or not, that 1 second without time to react isn't fair especially when Mages, always being accused of being the heavy nukers, can't do this with our "nukes." I would gladly trade a nuke in for 6 buttons that have to be pressed and more damage efficient.</p><p>And the problem still stands, you're a Warlock. Milambers and Dracot aren't. You have wards and mana-shield, they don't...in fact you have TONS of things that they don't. The difference in PvP between Summoners & Enchanters to Sorcerers is varied significantly. Yes, Warlocks have it hard like all mages, but you can't tell me that you don't have it easy as well.</p><p>1 second fights should be non-existant at 80. So at 90 are thye going to be .5? Then 100 .25? It's going to get worse, fix it now or have it ruined further.</p>

[Roald]

<cite>Gimet@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dracot72 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Boy am I glad I spent all that time and effort to get 8.1k Health as a mage, look how much improvement its made!:</p><p>(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith critically hits YOU for 2377 crushing damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith's caustic poison critically hits YOU for 391 poison damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 489 crushing damage.(1206461084)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:44 2008] Leonith critically hits YOU for 2377 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 460 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Quick Shot hits YOU for 376 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 708 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith's Triple Burst critically hits YOU for 1152 crushing damage.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.(1206461085)[Tue Mar 25 16:04:45 2008] Leonith has killed you.</p></blockquote>Shhh dude u lasted almost 2 seconds, now they never gunna help us.</blockquote>Get some dispersion gear, in fact ALL FOUR PIECES! I looked at both of your gear, and quite frankly it's not PvP gear, it's instance gear. Your decent PvE gear will not help you in PvP.</blockquote><p>And you don't believe that mages who ARE geared for PvP (without dispersion gear) aren't getting dropped in less that 4 seconds?</p><p>Firstly: The biggest of all MAGE nukes comes from a Sorcerer. The casting time I believe is 4 seconds or so, (if not interrupted), and the damage is big. The lower damaged attacks of Enchanters and Summoners are also hard to get off with casting times, and don't nearly damage as much...that is if resists aren't thrown in the mix.</p><p>Secondly: What gear is used isn't important as you may think for a Mage in these types of situations. We're not going to get awesome mitigation even with great gear...and you're right the dispersion gear will help, but the people wearing them happen to be getting dropped in the end as well. (Logs with people wearing dispersion gear also floating around, I can attempt to find if you'd like) Milambers has lots of health for an 80 Mage...for an extra second in a fight. Only thing I can get off in one second as a conjuror is evocation spec'd spells...which aren't one-shots at al, nowhere near.</p><p>I guess I'm not makign my point clear exactly....but once again I'll say this is level 80. There will be many more levels past 80, and if things aren't fixed now they will only get worse and worse. Even noobs shouldn't be killed in 1 second in PvP, I don't know how anyone can say 1 second kill damage ISN'T Overpowered. It's just like the Ranger, except this time other scouts aren't victims of it. If Mages parried everything Scouts dished out, and we were granted 1 second casting one shot nukes, people would be outraged!</p><p>Where's the equality, hell, even semi-equality in the player-base between Mages and Scouts? Fighters are even beatign on us like never before.</p></blockquote><p>QFE. Scouts seem to miss the point entirely. </p><p>Firstly, dispersion gear may have added, what?, 1-2 seconds more? Yippee. Just enough time for me to do...nothing. </p><p>And secondly, I have just gotten my first piece of dispersion gear, and will probably get my first PvP piece this weekend, but so what? I shouldn't have to be the best geared mage (which I nearly am in terms of HP) to ensure I last more than 2 seconds in PvP to melee classes.</p><p>Something is fundamentally wrong with how quickly some mages can be killed. Combine that with insane resists and its not even funny, its blatantly rediculous.</p>

[DeathLizard]

<p>If I had to bet on the outcome of a fight between a lv 80 ranger vs a lv 80 Necromancer AND a lv 80 conjurer....my moneys on the ranger. </p>

[Sightless]

<p>Milambers</p><p>If you think dispersion only adds 1-2 seconds to your life, you're sadly mistaken. It's the difference between life and death, seriously. Coupled with the faction book from Sel'Nok which increases the proc rate, you'll find yourself having much, much more survival in PvP.</p><p>So no, you're not the best geared caster for PvP, you're PvP gear is lacking tremendously.</p>

[Death0Matic]

<p>Alright i see this post took off and now i want to ask you this:</p><p>With 50% avoidance why do i fight green scouts, warriors, brawlers, any melee class any level that cons to 80s and EVERY melee attack hits? </p><p>Like i know there is +melee skills and debuffs but seriously here, avoidance is [Removed for Content] junk.  Like 50% should mean 50% not 0%.</p>

[Sightless]

<cite>Death0Matic wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Alright i see this post took off and now i want to ask you this:</p><p>With 50% avoidance why do i fight green scouts, warriors, brawlers, any melee class any level that cons to 80s and EVERY melee attack hits? </p><p>Like i know there is +melee skills and debuffs but seriously here, avoidance is [I cannot control my vocabulary] junk.  Like 50% should mean 50% not 0%.</p></blockquote>This is an answer I don't know.. And one of the reasons Agility have no use in PvP. I've had as much as 70% avoidance and every single CA my opponent used, hit. Doesn't make sense, but it happens.

[Roald]

<p>Here you go Demron, i found log where they took longer than 20 seconds to kill me, you'll be happy to hear.</p><p>I have 10% Stoneskin at the time of this log, earlier today. With this item I have managed to keep my HP exceedingly high at 8076. About 13 seconds before this long log, he hit me for 1.6k, but I had regened to around 92% so Didnt think I should keep 12 seconds of log in for the sake of 6% HP.</p><p>We are just beside the docks in KP, he resists my fast cast stun (Adept III) and Mezz (M1). My second mezz lands. After that I manage to land 2 spells, a root and a resistance debuff. The ranger simply waits for my mezz to break, and doesn't even cure my root. He just stands there with his epic and auto attacks me to death, the whole time he resists every spell I cast, and more often that not parries my pets auto attack.</p><p>Read this log and tell me there is nothing wrong with Caster v Melee. </p><p>(120663663<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />[Thu Mar 27 16:50:38 2008] You have entered into combat by casting Anesthesia on Sripo.(120663663<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />[Thu Mar 27 16:50:38 2008] YOU try to confound Sripo with Anesthesia, but Sripo resists.(1206636641)[Thu Mar 27 16:50:41 2008] YOU try to confound Sripo with Enrapture, but Sripo resists.(1206636643)[Thu Mar 27 16:50:43 2008] Sripo's Blame Arrow hits YOU for 926 crushing damage. (1206636643)[Thu Mar 27 16:50:43 2008] Sripo critically hits YOU for 2156 crushing damage.(1206636643)[Thu Mar 27 16:50:43 2008] Sripo's mental breach poisons YOU draining 311 points of power.(1206636643)[Thu Mar 27 16:50:43 2008] Sripo tries to slash YOU with Talon Strike, but YOU resist.(1206636643)[Thu Mar 27 16:50:43 2008] Sripo's Quick Shot hits YOU for 360 crushing damage.(1206636644)[Thu Mar 27 16:50:44 2008] Your spell has been interrupted!(1206636645)[Thu Mar 27 16:50:45 2008] You gather your mental energy.(1206636645)[Thu Mar 27 16:50:45 2008] Milambers appears to have less interest in you.(1206636647)[Thu Mar 27 16:50:47 2008] You are not in a group(1206636649)[Thu Mar 27 16:50:49 2008] You hit Sripo with a mesmerizing blast of psionic energy!(1206636653)[Thu Mar 27 16:50:53 2008] One at a time!  You are already casting a spell.(1206636655)[Thu Mar 27 16:50:55 2008] YOUR Black Phylactery heals YOU for 2351 hit points.(120663665<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />[Thu Mar 27 16:50:58 2008] Your spell has been interrupted!(1206636660)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:00 2008] You concentrate on the power of Forced Hesitation.(1206636660)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:00 2008] Sripo is mesmerized!(1206636662)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:02 2008] YOU try to confound Sripo with Spell Scourge, but Sripo resists.(1206636664)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:04 2008] YOU try to confound Sripo with Auspex, but Sripo resists.(1206636665)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:05 2008] You tear at Sripo's psyche with your mind!(1206636665)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:05 2008] Sripo feels a stabbing pain in His head!(120663666<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />[Thu Mar 27 16:51:08 2008] YOU try to confound Sripo with Spell Scourge, but Sripo resists.(1206636669)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:09 2008] Sripo snaps out of it.(1206636669)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:09 2008] Sripo hits YOU for 1258 crushing damage.(1206636669)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:09 2008] Sripo's gracelessness afflicts you.(1206636669)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:09 2008] Sripo's mental breach poisons YOU draining 404 points of power.(1206636669)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:09 2008] Sripo tries to slash YOU with Talon Strike, but YOU resist.(1206636669)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:09 2008] Sripo's Quick Shot hits YOU for 360 crushing damage.(1206636669)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:09 2008] You foretell the doom of Sripo.(1206636669)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:09 2008] Sripo's doom has been foretold.(1206636670)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:10 2008] You send your pet in for the attack!(1206636670)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:10 2008] a Sathirian arcanist tries to crush Sripo, but misses.(1206636670)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:10 2008] You send your pet in for the attack!(1206636672)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:12 2008] a Sathirian arcanist tries to crush Sripo, but Sripo parries.(1206636673)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:13 2008] YOU try to confound Sripo with Spell Scourge, but Sripo resists.(1206636674)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:14 2008] a Sathirian arcanist tries to crush Sripo, but Sripo parries.(1206636674)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:14 2008] Sripo hits YOU for 1856 crushing damage.(1206636674)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:14 2008] Sripo's gracelessness afflicts you.(1206636674)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:14 2008] Sripo's mental breach poisons YOU draining 311 points of power.(1206636674)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:14 2008] Sripo's Talon Strike hits YOU for 217 slashing damage.(1206636674)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:14 2008] Sripo's Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 467 crushing damage.(1206636676)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:16 2008] a Sathirian arcanist tries to crush Sripo, but misses.(1206636676)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:16 2008] YOU try to confound Sripo with Shock Wave, but Sripo resists.(120663667<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />[Thu Mar 27 16:51:18 2008] a Sathirian arcanist hits Sripo for 474 crushing damage.(120663667<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />[Thu Mar 27 16:51:18 2008] YOU try to confound Sripo with Hemorrhage, but Sripo resists.(120663667<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />[Thu Mar 27 16:51:18 2008] Sripo can move again.(1206636679)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:19 2008] Sripo critically hits YOU for 2156 crushing damage.(1206636679)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:19 2008] Sripo's gracelessness afflicts you.(1206636679)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:19 2008] Sripo's mental breach poisons YOU draining 404 points of power.(1206636679)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:19 2008] Sripo tries to slash YOU with Talon Strike, but YOU resist.(1206636679)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:19 2008] Sripo's Quick Shot hits YOU for 360 crushing damage.(1206636679)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:19 2008] You lose consciousness!(1206636679)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:19 2008] You are down for the count...  You cannot cast a spell at this time.(1206636683)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:23 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.(1206636684)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:24 2008] Sripo critically hits YOU for 2156 crushing damage.(1206636684)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:24 2008] You are no longer using the Signet of Reason.(1206636684)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:24 2008] Your added refreshment is depleted.(1206636684)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:24 2008] The power fades from your body.(1206636684)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:24 2008] You can no longer see invisible.(1206636684)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:24 2008] A Sathirian arcanist is no longer Beguiled.(1206636684)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:24 2008] Your inner sight fades.(1206636684)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:24 2008] The pain in Sripo's head subsides.(1206636684)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:24 2008] Sripo's feeling of impending doom fades.(1206636684)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:24 2008] Sripo has killed you.(1206636684)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:24 2008] You lost 1 Gold, 32 Silver, 69 Copper for losing the battle.(1206636684)[Thu Mar 27 16:51:24 2008] Your death has decreased your infamy.</p><p>Stoneskin proc'd 0 times. He poison proced every attack. Funnily enough, with 4 attacks he drained more that I can with my power drains spells. I stood right on top of him, but the ranger epic means you can auto attack from 0 metres. He probably went afk when I mezzed him and left auto attack on, because that's ALL he did. I stood there for nearly 40 seconds, and damaged him ONCE, and even that was my pets work.</p>

[Sightless]

<p>Milambers</p><p>First, I'm not saying there is nothing wrong with Caster vs. Melee, I'm disagreeing with you turning this thread into another nerf Rangers thread.</p><p>You need all three of the 10% dispersion pieces and the Sel'Nok faction book for them to matter much.</p><p>How many spells did you stack on him after you mez'd him? I've had Coercors stack a god awful amount of spells on me, and if I did ANYTHING after that, I died. But I agree, resist rates are insanely high.</p>

[Roald]

<cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Milambers</p><p>First, I'm not saying there is nothing wrong with Caster vs. Melee, I'm disagreeing with you turning this thread into another nerf Rangers thread.</p><p>You need all three of the 10% dispersion pieces and the Sel'Nok faction book for them to matter much.</p><p>How many spells did you stack on him after you mez'd him? I've had Coercors stack a god awful amount of spells on me, and if I did ANYTHING after that, I died. But I agree, resist rates are insanely high.</p></blockquote><p>I tried to stack every single reactive I had, focusing on the main 2 (auspex and spell scourge). While they can be very deadly to rangers if they melee attack me, ranged auto attack procs neither, and ranged CAs only proc one. Unfortunately, its gotten to the point where classes like swashies and zerkers can simply burst through my reactives, they can kill me before I kill them. That's if I can manage to land my mezz before I die, or If I can actually get them to land once I get my mezz to land.</p><p>I am currently in the process of camping the named for the stoneskin forearms in KC, and I have nearly enough faction for the shoulders. As for the sel'nok faction book, you're the first person I've heard mention that. Im guessing it adds to proc chances on gear?</p><p>Either way, I don't believe rangers are that OP, and I don't think they should be nerfed themselves. I think resists should be fixed, enchanters/summoners given more defence (be that mit, HP or maybe a selfbuff that procs stoneskin itself) and that ALL auto attacks should be looked into. </p>

[Sightless]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sightless wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Milambers</p><p>First, I'm not saying there is nothing wrong with Caster vs. Melee, I'm disagreeing with you turning this thread into another nerf Rangers thread.</p><p>You need all three of the 10% dispersion pieces and the Sel'Nok faction book for them to matter much.</p><p>How many spells did you stack on him after you mez'd him? I've had Coercors stack a god awful amount of spells on me, and if I did ANYTHING after that, I died. But I agree, resist rates are insanely high.</p></blockquote><p>I tried to stack every single reactive I had, focusing on the main 2 (auspex and spell scourge). While they can be very deadly to rangers if they melee attack me, ranged auto attack procs neither, and ranged CAs only proc one. Unfortunately, its gotten to the point where classes like swashies and zerkers can simply burst through my reactives, they can kill me before I kill them. That's if I can manage to land my mezz before I die, or If I can actually get them to land once I get my mezz to land.</p><p>I am currently in the process of camping the named for the stoneskin forearms in KC, and I have nearly enough faction for the shoulders. As for the sel'nok faction book, you're the first person I've heard mention that. Im guessing it adds to proc chances on gear?</p><p>Either way, I don't believe rangers are that OP, and I don't think they should be nerfed themselves. I think resists should be fixed, enchanters/summoners given more defence (be that mit, HP or maybe a selfbuff that procs stoneskin itself) and that ALL auto attacks should be looked into. </p></blockquote>That I can agree with, and yes the book adds to your proc rate.

[DeathLizard]

How it was explained to me is base avoidance was removed from pvp. Check your avoidance- it should be split into Block, Parry, Deflection, and Base avoidance. As a caster, you get no block or deflection, and parry from aa's is about the only avoidance you get in pvp as a caster. With hit bonuses on most ca's and the high availability of +c/s/p/r, even grey cons usually hit (within 15 levels or so.) As a caster, you have a higher chance to hit lower cons with your advantage on casting skill to there level, but gear with plus to casting skills are harder to find, and I'm sure a greenie hits you twice as often as you land a spell on them anyways with the current mechanics. I'm generally not in favor of nerfing classes unless they are considerably above the curve, but something needs to be done with pvp avoidance and resists.

[Fazzelen]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As a mage I run around with 7.9k health, by far the most I've ever seen a mage have. At the time of this log I had 7k, still a very large amount for a Mage. I still die in 1second:</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz hits YOU for 1747 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz tries to zap YOU with Taunting Blow, but YOU resist.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] YOUR noxious reprieve absorbs 246 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz's caustic poison hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] YOUR Convulsions critically hits Boomz for 1130 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz critically hits YOU for 2446 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] There is no eligible target for this spell.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Uncanny Thrusts critically hits YOU for 853 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Convulsions hits Boomz for 916 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Uncanny Thrusts critically hits YOU for 878 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Convulsions hits Boomz for 1107 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Tyrannical Mind hits Boomz for 233 mental damage.</p><p>(</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] There is no eligible target for this spell.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Eye Point hits YOU for 999 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] The power fades from your body.</p><p>Even had I had 7.9k at that point, so what? Great I got to live another second!</p></blockquote>Not trying to degrade anyone, im just curious on the time span of this fight. Considering Tyrannical Mind is what a 1 second cast? I dunno just wondering how this fight lasted 2 seconds yet Convulsions hit him 3 times and you casted Tyrannical Mind. Not that a 5 second fight would make things any better, and I agree with the debate on the melee vs caster class. Something does need to change. But logic tells me this fight shoulda lasted longer then the times posted.

[Roald]

<cite>Fazzelen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As a mage I run around with 7.9k health, by far the most I've ever seen a mage have. At the time of this log I had 7k, still a very large amount for a Mage. I still die in 1second:</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz hits YOU for 1747 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz tries to zap YOU with Taunting Blow, but YOU resist.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] YOUR noxious reprieve absorbs 246 points of damage from being done to YOURSELF.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz's caustic poison hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] YOUR Convulsions critically hits Boomz for 1130 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] Boomz critically hits YOU for 2446 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877262)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:22 2008] There is no eligible target for this spell.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Uncanny Thrusts critically hits YOU for 853 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Convulsions hits Boomz for 916 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Uncanny Thrusts critically hits YOU for 878 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Convulsions hits Boomz for 1107 mental damage.</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz convulses in agony!</p><p>(1205877263)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] YOUR Tyrannical Mind hits Boomz for 233 mental damage.</p><p>(</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] There is no eligible target for this spell.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Boomz's Eye Point hits YOU for 999 slashing damage.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] Your magical shield begins to fade.</p><p>(1205877264)[Tue Mar 18 21:54:23 2008] The power fades from your body.</p><p>Even had I had 7.9k at that point, so what? Great I got to live another second!</p></blockquote>Not trying to degrade anyone, im just curious on the time span of this fight. Considering Tyrannical Mind is what a 1 second cast? I dunno just wondering how this fight lasted 2 seconds yet Convulsions hit him 3 times and you casted Tyrannical Mind. Not that a 5 second fight would make things any better, and I agree with the debate on the melee vs caster class. Something does need to change. But logic tells me this fight shoulda lasted longer then the times posted.</blockquote>Convulsions are nothing to do with tyrannical mind. They are to do with the spells Auspex and Spell Scourge I managed to get on him before he was able to attack me.

[Shadow_Viper]

<p>People need to accept the fact that mages aren't the best PVP soloers, if you want to spend most of your time PVPing solo, you really should pick a different class. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>As I've said before: If a mage is having problems with a scout engaging them in melee, ask your tank to taunt more. If you're taking some damage, ask your healer to throw a few more heals your way. </p><p>If a mage is having problems with their spells being resisted they should find gear that adds to their casting skills(disruption, ordination, etc). Likewise if you're having problems being hit in melee(and your tank isn't taunting as much as he should), try to find gear with bonuses to parry, defense, vs slahsing, vs piercing, vs crushing. Try carrying cure truama(sp) and cure noxious potions. </p><p>The only thing the posted logs show is what we already know: Mages have a difficult time in solo PVP, congratulations.</p>

[Roald]

<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>People need to accept the fact that mages aren't the best PVP soloers, if you want to spend most of your time PVPing solo, you really should pick a different class. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>As I've said before: If a mage is having problems with a scout engaging them in melee, ask your tank to taunt more. If you're taking some damage, ask your healer to throw a few more heals your way. </p><p>If a mage is having problems with their spells being resisted they should find gear that adds to their casting skills(disruption, ordination, etc). Likewise if you're having problems being hit in melee(and your tank isn't taunting as much as he should), try to find gear with bonuses to parry, defense, vs slahsing, vs piercing, vs crushing. Try carrying cure truama(sp) and cure noxious potions. </p><p>The only thing the posted logs show is what we already know: Mages have a difficult time in solo PVP, congratulations.</p></blockquote><p>Sadly, this is incorrect. The reason mages aren't a great solo class is because, simply they die the fastest off all classes when jumped, and have little or no means of escape (only 1 of 6 has evac, and that's very easily interruptable) or evasion (none have track). They can however, make up for this with DPS or utility.</p><p>This is where spell resists come in.</p><p>Resists stop them from doing what they were designed to do. Mages classes aren't built around having 50-80% of spells they cast resisted. Just like Brigand or Ranger or Swashie aren't designed around having 50-80% of their CAs miss.</p><p>Mages aren't good solo classes, due to the way the archtype was designed, for example, low mit and health. However, Sony sure as hell didn't design them to get resisted as much as they do in PvP, therefore resists ARE BROKEN and DO NEED FIXING.</p>

[Gimet]

<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>People need to accept the fact that mages aren't the best PVP soloers, if you want to spend most of your time PVPing solo, you really should pick a different class. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>As I've said before: If a mage is having problems with a scout engaging them in melee, ask your tank to taunt more. If you're taking some damage, ask your healer to throw a few more heals your way. </p><p>If a mage is having problems with their spells being resisted they should find gear that adds to their casting skills(disruption, ordination, etc). Likewise if you're having problems being hit in melee(and your tank isn't taunting as much as he should), try to find gear with bonuses to parry, defense, vs slahsing, vs piercing, vs crushing. Try carrying cure truama(sp) and cure noxious potions. </p><p>The only thing the posted logs show is what we already know: Mages have a difficult time in solo PVP, congratulations.</p></blockquote><p>Scouts are good for soloing, but are you required to solo? Do people tell you no when you ask to group or raid?</p><p>Mages are good for goruping, but just as a Scout why MUST we group?</p><p>Your argument holds no water. Stop holding us down as we try to improve things that are down right wrong. GO AWAY, honestly.</p><p>Oh yeah, and taunts don't save mages from getting dropped in one second when suprised.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

LOL Shadow cant you read? and If we go for parry, defenc gear we loose disruption and get more restst. And cure us selfe? in what time? cause we die too fast. And if everyone should pick a solo pvp class, where would Necro,Conju,Defiler,Mystic,Trouba and Dirges go? Then there would be no good raids at all.

[caliburns]

<cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>People need to accept the fact that mages aren't the best PVP soloers, if you want to spend most of your time PVPing solo, you really should pick a different class. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>As I've said before: If a mage is having problems with a scout engaging them in melee, ask your tank to taunt more. If you're taking some damage, ask your healer to throw a few more heals your way. </p><p><b><u>If a mage is having problems with their spells being resisted they should find gear that adds to their casting skills(disruption, ordination, etc).</u></b> Likewise if you're having problems being hit in melee(and your tank isn't taunting as much as he should), try to find gear with bonuses to parry, defense, vs slahsing, vs piercing, vs crushing. Try carrying cure truama(sp) and cure noxious potions. </p><p>The only thing the posted logs show is what we already know: Mages have a difficult time in solo PVP, congratulations.</p></blockquote><p>The part i mark, SERIOUSLY P---- me off, you are so freaking cluless. I have my Disr gear, it is 190 over my level, almost, and yet  i still  get 7/10 spell resists.  I could run up to an AFK level 80, hell, even a green player and cast 10 spells and have over half resists, in a REAL player vs player fight the resist rate would have killed me? why?</p><p>I see the scout> i root, it resists > i use stun > it hits > i freehand catylist ice bolt > it resists> i use snare > it resists > i use AOE snare > i'm interupted > i use escaping dive > i use snare it hits > i try to get range >snare cured > i caste free hand catalyst ice bolt > it resists (i am now out of options and get interupted to death while double snared and unable to get range, manna shield will i'ver be DPS'd down in 4 sec or pumice stoned.</p><p>This was an actual fight i had, and it lasted all of 5 secs with me doing next to no damage.</p><p>Resists are screwed, Don't you ever tell a caster to get Disp gear, because you are seriously risking a punch in the face. (Disp or any other spell damage skill does not work at all)</p>

[Sightless]

<cite>caliburns wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shadow_Viper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>People need to accept the fact that mages aren't the best PVP soloers, if you want to spend most of your time PVPing solo, you really should pick a different class. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>As I've said before: If a mage is having problems with a scout engaging them in melee, ask your tank to taunt more. If you're taking some damage, ask your healer to throw a few more heals your way. </p><p><b><u>If a mage is having problems with their spells being resisted they should find gear that adds to their casting skills(disruption, ordination, etc).</u></b> Likewise if you're having problems being hit in melee(and your tank isn't taunting as much as he should), try to find gear with bonuses to parry, defense, vs slahsing, vs piercing, vs crushing. Try carrying cure truama(sp) and cure noxious potions. </p><p>The only thing the posted logs show is what we already know: Mages have a difficult time in solo PVP, congratulations.</p></blockquote><p>The part i mark, SERIOUSLY P---- me off, you are so freaking cluless. I have my Disp gear, it is 190 over my level, almost, and yet  i still  get 7/10 spell resists.  I could run up to an AFK level 80, hell, even a green player and cast 10 spells and have over half resists, in a REAL player vs player fight the resist rate would have killed me? why?</p><p>I see the scout> i root, it resists > i use stun > it hits > i freehand catylist ice bolt > it resists> i use snare > it resists > i use AOE snare > i'm interupted > i use escaping dive > i use snare it hits > i try to get range >snare cured > i caste free hand catalyst ice bolt > it resists (i am now out of options and get interupted to death while double snared and unable to get range, manna shield will i'ver be DPS'd down in 4 sec or pumice stoned.</p><p>This was an actual fight i had, and it lasted all of 5 secs with me doing next to no damage.</p><p>Resists are screwed, Don't you ever tell a caster to get Disp gear, because you are seriously risking a punch in the face. (Disp or any other spell damage skill does not work at all)</p></blockquote><p>I also play a 80 Warlock, and I'm telling you; "GET DISPERSION GEAR AND THE SEL'NOK FACTION BOOK"! I'm half tempted to spec out of Manashield so I can go Strength, Agility, for a higher casting speed, since a smart player can easily counter Manashield.</p><p>Resists are a problem though and I do hope they get fixed.</p>

[Roald]

<p>From what I've seen, dispersion gear does make a difference. Resist rates are still insane sometimes, but get the dispersion gear.</p>

[simpwrx02]

<p>I think the poster meant disuption gear, ofcourse he has dispersion gear, but what this mean if he was talkign about dispersion?  I have my Disp gear, it is 190 over my level   .    Clearly he is refering to disruption and used the wrong abreviation. </p>

[caliburns]

lol yeah in my rant i didnt check what i wrote, i did mean disruption gear.

[Roald]

<cite>simpwrx02 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think the poster meant disuption gear, ofcourse he has dispersion gear, but what this mean if he was talkign about dispersion?  I have my Disp gear, it is 190 over my level   .    Clearly he is refering to disruption and used the wrong abreviation. </p></blockquote>I was making a general statement, not refering to him.

[Death0Matic]

<p>Yes disruption gear does help but still, any scouts out there have +190 to melee skills? Most likely not.  All they seem to need is the the offensive stance with +50 some and they hit [Removed for Content] near 100%.  Casters even in a troubs group that is spec'd intel for the +casting skills, which gives the group over +50 some, still get more resists than you you would think.</p><p>But all in all i know disruption gear helps but not to the point were +melee skills help melee.</p><p>By the way, fighting a green sk (lvl72) today and 6/6 spells resisted of the first 6 i casted.  4 masters, other 2 adept 3's, 466 casting skill at the time of the fight.</p>