Hex Dolls: scale needs to be adjusted

[Meirril]

<p>I've thought this occasionally off and on since t7. In t8 it becomes even more apparent. Heck, even in t2 I thought this. </p><p>The progression of Hex dolls doesn't fit in with itemization for any other item. In t2 the rare dolls are way over powered. Well, they were overpowered until the armor was re-itemized. Being 5 points better than the more properly itemized handcrafted made the rare hex dolls too good. Slowly from t3 to t6 the stats caught up until they fit in the curve (the rare dolls that is). At t6 the dolls are perfectly alligned with the rest of your equipment. </p><p>Then in t7 following the same upgrade scheme (1 point per tier, plus more powerful version of the same effect) the dolls start to fall behind itemization for other slots. In t8 it becomes much, much weaker than other slot items that have scaled up significantly higher in stats and effects. This is made even more glaringly obvious by the other charm slot items found in RoK. They have significantly higher stats and effects. </p><p>So, should anything be done about this? I'm thinking we call t8 a wash and focus on t9 now to prevent the situation from becomming worse. So, what should a hex doll's progression be based on if it isn't +1 per tier?</p><p>If you compair charm slot items to armor, in t6-t8 the legendary charm slot items have about half the total stat bonus of an equivellent armor peice in one stat plus an effect on some items. So if t8 hex dolls were adjusted similarly the master crafted doll should have half the combine stats of master crafted armor. (30+25+25)/2 = 40. So master crafted dolls would be +40 to a single stat, and handcrafted half as powerful at +20 with the same clicky effect they have now. </p><p>I'd also like to propose that there be an imbued version of the dolls. Instead of simply adding a new effect onto the existing item, I'd propose that the stat bonus on the doll be halved and a new effect given to the doll. I'm thinking proc effects as the long casting times on the hex dolls make them difficult to use. Int dolls could be given a damage on hostile spell cast. Wis dolls could be given a de-agro on spells cast. Agility dolls could be given a +DPS proc on melee attack. Strength dolls could be given a power proc on melee attack. Stamina dolls could be given a +max HP/healing reactive proc on taking damage. Possibly the dolls could also give some +hp/power.</p><p>Anyways, these are my thoughts on future hex dolls.</p>

[Noaani]

<p>I started a post about how hex dolls were falling behind statwise back at the start of EoF, but that was before Domino was the TS dev.</p><p>That thread had a few good ideas, such as inproving the debuf on the dolls (although this would need to be done in conjunction with a reduced cast timer), or adding a secondary effect to the rare version of hex dolls.</p><p>one thing is sure though, in RoK (or maybe just after release) charm slots were suddenly alocated more itemisation points than they were allowed beforehand. Items for this slot are now almost as powerful as items in most other slots, and hex dolls should reflect this.</p><p>IMO it is not good enough to simply wait for T9, as the current hex dolls need re-itemisation (much like as has been done with crafted armour).</p>

[Meirril]

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I started a post about how hex dolls were falling behind statwise back at the start of EoF, but that was before Domino was the TS dev.</p><p>That thread had a few good ideas, such as inproving the debuf on the dolls (although this would need to be done in conjunction with a reduced cast timer), or adding a secondary effect to the rare version of hex dolls.</p><p>one thing is sure though, in RoK (or maybe just after release) charm slots were suddenly alocated more itemisation points than they were allowed beforehand. Items for this slot are now almost as powerful as items in most other slots, and hex dolls should reflect this.</p><p>IMO it is not good enough to simply wait for T9, as the current hex dolls need re-itemisation (much like as has been done with crafted armour).</p></blockquote><p>I'm thinking that if development plans on releasing their next expansion in November (like the last two) they are getting towards the point they need to focus on the next expansion. Also there are the chicken parts for this tier already. I'd say let the prov made charm slot items really shine this tier and fix tailor made charm items next tier. Its already a bit late for tailors to really cash in on hex dolls already. The market has simply outleveled any reasonable upgrade at this point. </p><p>So, I say focus on t9 and make sure we're good to go on day 1.</p>

[Illmarr]

All well and good when working from the premise that the November expansion will being us T9, which I do not believe will be the case at all.

[Lasai]

<p>I recall the other post on hex dolls, they have been suffering in progression for a long time.</p><p>Long cast clickies really are a thing of the past, and it is kinda sad that a relative newbie quest out of BB yields a better item people are using up to t8.</p><p>The could use the Gorowynn charm items as a model, and go from that possibly, those are 2 stat, health and power, along with another effect or two.  If they have the capability to itemize that at level 30 it seems they could at least go up from there with Hex dolls.</p><p>I have a tailor, and it is sad that a lot of times making sales armor with the root was far more sensible to me than gaining a point of stat from a new doll.  Telling when I didn't use a product I could make for myself.</p>

[Rqron]

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I started a post about how hex dolls were falling behind statwise back at the start of EoF, but that was before Domino was the TS dev.</p><p>That thread had a few good ideas, such as inproving the debuf on the dolls (although this would need to be done in conjunction with a reduced cast timer), or adding a secondary effect to the rare version of hex dolls.</p><p>one thing is sure though, in RoK (or maybe just after release) charm slots were suddenly alocated more itemisation points than they were allowed beforehand. Items for this slot are now almost as powerful as items in most other slots, and hex dolls should reflect this.</p><p>IMO it is not good enough to simply wait for T9, as the current hex dolls need re-itemisation (much like as has been done with crafted armour).</p></blockquote>/start of sarcasmJust wait until the next LoN upgrade chances are there will be no more need for hex dolls in the future or any crafter made items.  Playing devils advocate here, what makes you believe that with all the items comming out of LoN and the amount of cash SOE is making from it  that crafting is still considered a viable venue in future expansions? If the trent goes on like what we have seen since LoN was released even Domino may have to look for something different then being the crafting Dev./end of sarcasm

[Domino]

Sarcasm does not suit you :pI addressed the hex doll stats shortly after RoK came out.  Originally charm slot items did not have stats, so hex dolls were among the best options for those slots.  Over time, the decision has changed so that now charm slot items other than hex dolls are being given stats.  This is making the hex dolls less competitive, obviously.Yes, they need to be looked at.  No, it won't be this month, I can't put a time frame on this with a lot of other things still needing to be addressed sooner, and a new expansion in the planning.  Sorry, that's all the information I have to give at the moment.

[Noaani]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sarcasm does not suit you :pI addressed the hex doll stats shortly after RoK came out.  Originally charm slot items did not have stats, so hex dolls were among the best options for those slots.  Over time, the decision has changed so that now charm slot items other than hex dolls are being given stats.  This is making the hex dolls less competitive, obviously.Yes, they need to be looked at.  No, it won't be this month, I can't put a time frame on this with a lot of other things still needing to be addressed sooner, and a new expansion in the planning.  Sorry, that's all the information I have to give at the moment.</blockquote><p>I'll save you a bit of time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Reduce the cast timer of the dolls to 1 second.</p><p>Add a skill modifier or effect to each rare doll, based on the following. </p><p>Str, + 5 combat art damage per tier (round up)Agi, + 0.5 parry per tier (round up)Sta, + 0.5 defense per tier (round up)Wis, + 5 healing per tierInt, + 5 spell damage  per tier</p><p>That will make them desired by most players, will make it so some people will want multiple sets of dolls, yet will not make them in any way overpowered.</p>

[evhallion]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, they need to be looked at.  No, it won't be this month, I can't put a time frame on this with a lot of other things still needing to be addressed sooner, and <b>a new expansion in the planning</b>.  Sorry, that's all the information I have to give at the moment.</blockquote>Kinda off topic and not trying to be a smart butt here, but won't there <b>always</b> be "a new expansion in the planning" or in the works, or needs finishing, or needing some post expansion polishing? Not trying to pick on you Dom as you are awesome and wonderful but I have seen a few other Devs cite this as a reason they can't get started on something. I just see it as (even though true) a poor reason to give as it is a neverending thing and always valid in a MMO. Anyhow just wanted to throw that out there.

[Powers]

I tend to agree; the final polish and bugs for Kunark are just being finished up and already there's a new expansion in the works.  Used to be (at least in EQL) there were separate live and expansion teams so that the live game didn't suffer from expansion development.Powers  &8^]

[Meirril]

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sarcasm does not suit you :pI addressed the hex doll stats shortly after RoK came out.  Originally charm slot items did not have stats, so hex dolls were among the best options for those slots.  Over time, the decision has changed so that now charm slot items other than hex dolls are being given stats.  This is making the hex dolls less competitive, obviously.Yes, they need to be looked at.  No, it won't be this month, I can't put a time frame on this with a lot of other things still needing to be addressed sooner, and a new expansion in the planning.  Sorry, that's all the information I have to give at the moment.</blockquote><p>I'll save you a bit of time <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Reduce the cast timer of the dolls to 1 second.</p><p>Add a skill modifier or effect to each rare doll, based on the following. </p><p>Str, + 5 combat art damage per tier (round up)Agi, + 0.5 parry per tier (round up)Sta, + 0.5 defense per tier (round up)Wis, + 5 healing per tierInt, + 5 spell damage  per tier</p><p>That will make them desired by most players, will make it so some people will want multiple sets of dolls, yet will not make them in any way overpowered.</p></blockquote><p>You do realize that spell/healing bonuses in t7 were +10 to +20 on legendary and fabled items, right? That they don't exist in previous tiers at all. Defense really doesn't exist before t6, but they give you lots of it then and hardly any later on. You very rarely see +parry except on weapons and even then on mostly fabled weapons. </p><p>At t2 your talking about adding +10 damage per doll. Looking at my eqplayer's stats for a 13 monk (max damage 79) and a level 9 wizard (max damage 4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> that would represent a 20% and 40% damage increase respectively. You have a strange idea of "not in any way overpowered".</p>

[Noaani]

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite> <blockquote>You do realize that spell/healing bonuses in t7 were +10 to +20 on legendary and fabled items, right? That they don't exist in previous tiers at all. Defense really doesn't exist before t6, but they give you lots of it then and hardly any later on. You very rarely see +parry except on weapons and even then on mostly fabled weapons. <p>At t2 your talking about adding +10 damage per doll. Looking at my eqplayer's stats for a 13 monk (max damage 79) and a level 9 wizard (max damage 4<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> that would represent a 20% and 40% damage increase respectively. You have a strange idea of "not in any way overpowered".</p></blockquote><p>I guess I should have stated that since there are no tier 1 hex dolls, it would be 5 spell damage, healing and combat art damage per teir after teir 2, so at level 13, you would be getting an extra 5 per combat art (i thought it was common knowledge that there were no T1 dolls...).</p><p>As for the rest of your post, just because you don't know about an item, doesn't mean it does not exist.</p><p>First, defense and parry are not at all hard to find, in small quantities, even at low levels...</p><p>aITEM 108413497 815416674:Heroic Clay Breastplate/aaITEM -888058609 -1865014519:Helm of the Packleader/a</p><p>Parry, is a little harder, but not much...</p><p>aITEM -2146560961 -1918061126:Bladewarder/aaITEM 204592003 -1555698352:Lureclaws Favorite Pants/a</p><p>Spell damage only from T7 up? these 2 items would disagree...</p><p>aITEM -2112886292 -1101954483:Crushbone Thaumaturgist Cloak/aaITEM 647041376 -854409183:Fay Arcanist's Cape/a</p><p>And... to top it all off...</p><p>aITEM 1024166041 991401065:Gorowynian Rune of Indemnity/aaITEM -1080757213 -1182209837:Gorowynian Rune of Intellect/aaITEM -1109864192 -1117426962:Gorowynian Rune of Intrepidity/aaITEM 1560437503 1108899997:Gorowynian Rune of Intent/a</p><p>So, yeah, my post above would not make hex dolls overpowered at all.</p>

[denmom]

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite> <blockquote>You do realize that spell/healing bonuses in t7 were +10 to +20 on legendary and fabled items, right? That they don't exist in previous tiers at all. Defense really doesn't exist before t6, but they give you lots of it then and hardly any later on. You very rarely see +parry except on weapons and even then on mostly fabled weapons. <p>At t2 your talking about adding +10 damage per doll. Looking at my eqplayer's stats for a 13 monk (max damage 79) and a level 9 wizard (max damage 4<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /> that would represent a 20% and 40% damage increase respectively. You have a strange idea of "not in any way overpowered".</p></blockquote><p>I guess I should have stated that since there are no tier 1 hex dolls, it would be 5 spell damage, healing and combat art damage per teir after teir 2, so at level 13, you would be getting an extra 5 per combat art (i thought it was common knowledge that there were no T1 dolls...).</p></blockquote>Not as common as you'd might think.  I've had a few new players as well as veterans ask about T1 dolls.Aren't any because they use imbue materials for construction.  Tho there is a rare root in T1, no imbue materials.  Not until T2 with glowing.