Making the Dev's Lives Easier - EQ2 SDK for Models

[DamianTV]

<p>As a whole, we put a great deal of pressure on the Developers to create new content, ask for this, that has a bug, change this, get rid of that, etc.  Sometimes I think we put too much pressure and dont really get what we would like because of that pressure.  I know it takes a great deal of skill, time, and patience to create all of the models for all of the content that we have and want.  So use it to the Dev's advantage, and work SMART not HARD!  So why dont we change things around a little bit, and put some of that weight on the Players with talent!  Players, after all, do have time to play, but if they are interested, they can model too!  And time is a limited resource of the EQ Devs...</p><p>Basically what Im thinking is a public Studio Developer Kit for players with modeling talents to create some of the model content.  Of course I couldnt expect a full on modelling software package such as 3D Studio Max, Lightwave, ZBrush, so players would have to own a copy of those programs already, but being able to generate and submit model content hopefully might take some of the workload off of the art department and allow for more content in general to be created for the game.  Of course models would probably be created and textured in other programs, but once they were imported into an EQ2 Model SDK, from there, they would have to be set up properly, textured, collison boxes, poly count, mip maps, etc, to be considered for submission.  Maybe turn it into a contest, winner gets a free month or something.</p><p>As much content as there is in EQ2, a lot of the content itself is the players.  Why not let the players make some of the model content?  If there is enough interest from people willing to actually create new wine racks, tables, chairs, couches, plants, textures, paintings, etc.  How do you guys feel about this?</p>

[Wyrmypops]

<p>I've heard it said that non-in-house people modelling could be problematic. They may make items that look great but wouldn't work in-game. They may not understand the issues the in-house staff do. Models may be made with too few or too many of those little triangle face thingummies. Could use too many fancy effects or have clipping issues. </p><p>Though I've often thought why not give some of the more talented of the playerbase provide inspiration. Sketches of new outfits/weapons/buildings, or modelled knock ups, quest ideas even, whatever. It could be a fun feature for the community as well as providing additional content. </p><p>The flip side to that is that such things can still take up dev time. They have to check them. Um and ah over how to make them an in-game reality. By focusing the input through a competition though, that could mitigate the randomness of input that needs taking a look at. </p>

[MysticTrunks01]

More likely than not, the legal issues of property would be the problem.  Compensation and such another.  Many players would be happy i think just knowing that was there models but then that's where the legal part comes up.It would be nice and it's not a bad idea but with a company as big as SOE, that whole intillectual property line is very blurry when it comes to virtual things.

[Apocroph]

Submission rules are pretty good for fixing that problem.<i>-Submissions will not be returned.-All artwork received will become property of SOE.-Accepted submissions will be used in future content, and acknowledged on EQ2Players.-Accepted submissions may not be used commercially.</i>It's a very simple Work-For-Hire arrangement, with stipulations for acknowledgment and future use.  If your submission is accepted for use, you get an email notifying you that you're now bound to the agreement.

[Killerbee3000]

technically possible? yes. could the legal issues be resolved by clearly stating who will own what rights and so on? yes.would soe allow for it to hapen? probably not... the dev's would fear loosing their jobs, so they would most likely be against it. and what would happen if there are no / not enough useful (over the top, doesnt fit in with lore, whatever reason why its wrong) submissions? and whats with the fact that soe wont be able to rely on it / plan based on it due to unknown quantity / quality?

[TorturedOne21]

<p>My time playing Second Life told me that not only is it possible, but it is preferable, and it is explosively popular. </p><p> Granted, SL runs on a completely different engine, but I don't think it would be entirely unreasonable to think that a similar building tool could be implemented in EQ2 to allow users to create their own armor. People will run with even a simplistic item creator and create some truly fantastic armor which, in the long run, would alleviate a tremendous burden off of the shoulders of the developers. This is web 2.0, putting the user in control is the fundamental reason behind its success, and SL has subscription rates comparable to the heavy hitters of MMOS. Not bad for a game that literally has no point.</p><p>Obviously, there are issues that would need to be addressed</p><p> copywrite infringement is certainly a major concern, but I don't see how this is any different than people who name their characters "Lleggollass" or some other pop culture reference. Just make it clear in the terms and conditions that reports of armor that uses copywritten material will be deleted. The people police themselves. End of story.</p><p>Of course, there is always fear that people are going to make stupid or ridiculous armor, but I think with just a little bit of regulation, you can prevent that. Maybe have them release a set number of textures so we aren't seeing latex bodysuits. A color palette so we aren't seeing bright pink armor. A size limitation for objects so people aren't making ridiculously oversized armor. Modesty covers over crotch and female breasts so people aren't making armor that makes a person look nude.</p><p>Clearly, such a system would have to be built around a more efficient system then the one that is currently being used, but the skeleton module currently employed by the Sarnak models shows promise.</p><p> A stitch in time saves nine. Do the work now, put power in the hands of the people, and we won't be dealing with worse issues later.</p>

[Armawk]

<p>Second life is.. well the content isnt exactly EQ2 standard is it? And its popular because you make it, you put it in, it belongs to you. If you made it, submitted it, and 99.5% of it was rejected and never seen the it wouldnt be popular at all, and thats what would happen.</p><p>If they let you put anything you made in the game would be awful.</p>

[Aurumn]

<p>I don't know if SoE would necessarily jump on the bandwagon, but a loyal playerbase can often make excellent contributions with player-made mods and objects. The Elder Scrolls games made allowing players to tinker with the game environment an integral part of the game. Another successful example are the Sims/Sims 2 games. There are massive amounts of user created or modified objects, clothing, textures and so forth for Sims2. Some stuff is just a minor recolor or touch up of the original items, but other folks really run with it and create some beautiful things. </p><p>Perhaps throwing out some basic meshes and making a contest out of soliciting player submissions might bring in some fresh ideas. Say limit things to a few objects at first... a couple of furniture pieces or maybe a mesh for a one or two piece outfit. Post mesh files for download and contest rules... let the players tinker to their hearts' content and submit their creations. They might only get a few "good" ones out of the bunch, but it might start something positive. </p><p>Also, just look at the pure creativity of a lot of our resident home decorators. They manage to do quite a lot with the existing objects. Give those creative minds some building blocks to work with, an objective with a deadline, and let em go crazy. You might like what you get. Of course anything player submitted will need to be tinkered with to make it work and fit seamlessly into the existing world, but you wouldn't have to start from scratch at least. </p><p>Now SoE providing any sort of modding interface/software I don't see happening. </p>

[Truck]

<cite>DamianTV wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As a whole, we put a great deal of pressure on the Developers to create new content, ask for this, that has a bug, change this, get rid of that, etc.  Sometimes I think we put too much pressure and dont really get what we would like because of that pressure.  I know it takes a great deal of skill, time, and patience to create all of the models for all of the content that we have and want.  So use it to the Dev's advantage, and work SMART not HARD!  So why dont we change things around a little bit, and put some of that weight on the Players with talent!  Players, after all, do have time to play, but if they are interested, they can model too!  And time is a limited resource of the EQ Devs...</p><p>Basically what Im thinking is a public Studio Developer Kit for players with modeling talents to create some of the model content.  Of course I couldnt expect a full on modelling software package such as 3D Studio Max, Lightwave, ZBrush, so players would have to own a copy of those programs already, but being able to generate and submit model content hopefully might take some of the workload off of the art department and allow for more content in general to be created for the game.  Of course models would probably be created and textured in other programs, but once they were imported into an EQ2 Model SDK, from there, they would have to be set up properly, textured, collison boxes, poly count, mip maps, etc, to be considered for submission.  Maybe turn it into a contest, winner gets a free month or something.</p><p>As much content as there is in EQ2, a lot of the content itself is the players.  Why not let the players make some of the model content?  If there is enough interest from people willing to actually create new wine racks, tables, chairs, couches, plants, textures, paintings, etc.  How do you guys feel about this?</p></blockquote><p>Alright, which dev paid you? I WANT NAMES.</p>

[DamianTV]

<p>They didnt tell me their names, just said to meet them in a dark alley...</p><p>I can see there is a potential for copyright infringement that they wouldnt want to deal with.  It would suck to have to replace the art department with flat out legal department that does nothing but defense.  It would be a crying shame to have someone try to claim someone elses models as their own and submit them to Sony as now being their content.</p><p>But like you guys said its very popular in 2nd Life, albeit the content in 2nd Life is mosty crap, but thats not the peoples faults, its limitations of the design tools to work with.  Now that being the case I wouldnt want to have people only have limited tools and only able to make crap models, so it would really have to be created in other modelling programs, 3DS Max Lightwave Maya, etc but the TOOL for EQ2 Model generation would be more for IMPORTING model content from externally, and setting up said imported content to be EQ2 compatible.  Actually I think I'll explain this different.  These tools already exist, as they are the very tools the Dev's use to make the content for the game already.  Refining these tools so they use to make it accessible to us is what I think might make their lives easier.  </p><p>We dont have restrictions on the types of styles we can create, and Im sure there will be a ton of user generated content that isnt used.  But thats not to say that it might not be used later as said item has the right style for said expansion.  Thing about an MMO is its not just creating a world, its creating a world and ALL of the content in it.  Not just one coffee cup but one of thousands of styles of coffee cups that exist in the real world.  And thats just coffee cups, not even talking plates or silverware.  Does anyone want to pay an artist x ammt of money to sit around and create digital coffee cups for an MMO?  Not effective use of ones resources.  So what do you do for a living?  Oh I model different model styles of coffee cups for everquest 2.  My friend models plates.  Not gonna happen.  So what we get is ok, but basically, "heres one generic coffee cup, one plate, now lets generate more common content in players houses".  </p><p>But with player generated content, a Dev says I need a model for a new sword, so they pull up models submitted for a sword category.  First one, dont like the style, looks good but style doesnt fit with where it will be used, this one I dont like, this one too simple, and on and on till they find one they like, or say we will just make it in house if they had to.  Or hey I like this sword, this is perfect fit for this!  The model is tested, tweaked and bug fixed, and then used in the next expansion for so and so bosses sword.  It still takes an artists touch to place models properly and maintain styles of the game.  Look in peoples houses for 20 minutes, you'll figure out quickly there are two problems:  A:  Not enough content to personalize your house and B: open houses seem to be mostly crap.  I have 400 pets.  Yeah thats not a style.  400 pets tho I could only imagine how bad that room would smell.  But with access to a wider variety of content, players customize their own experiences.</p><p>Personally theres just so much content I would want to use, Im not great at creating it, but it makes stylizing and customizing my experience of the game that much more for me.</p>