Hotfix today: Changes to Need Before Greed window

[Rothgar]

This was mentioned in the hotfix notes already, but I wanted to make sure it got a little more attention to avoid as many "mis-clicks" as possible.Based on your feedback we've swapped the "Need" and "Greed" buttons so that "Greed" appears first.  I was concerned about causing more confusion by changing it after a few weeks, but I think in the long run, this configuration is more consistent with the other loot windows.Thanks again for your feedback!

[Sapphirius]

Thanks for posting this! I would have overlooked it.

[KBern]

<p>ROFL</p><p>First we have to hand hold players so much to change the shiny to a lotto and loot options to Need Greed crap.</p><p>Now even the order of the words was confusing some people?!?!</p><p>Sad sad state of affairs.</p>

[Cracklep]

A"Greed" This new system is absolutely pointless.  If you don't like what shiny you picked up, destroy it or sell it.  Now you can just leave it there so no other better shiny spawns.   yay     This is the same kind of thing that leads to shrub nodes everywhere. The need/greed system is just stupid.   It IS sad that they had to patch the two buttons because ppl can't read what they say.  So they wasted time and money to move two buttons 1.5 inches.    Who said this was a good idea???Furthermore, we already had NBG.  It's called if you don't need it, you decline.  Problem solved. How about a new command?   /holdhand

[ChodeNode1]

<cite>Saurakk@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>ROFL</p><p>First we have to hand hold players so much to change the shiny to a lotto and loot options to Need Greed crap.</p><p>Now even the order of the words was confusing some people?!?!</p><p>Sad sad state of affairs.</p></blockquote>Thats more of an indictment of the player-base. The shiny thing was a good move. People made a lot of bonehead moves to be the first one to the shiny. Now that its random, the incentive to get them quickly is gone.As for NBG, I can't believe how hard it is for people to understand. I have extremely low patience for people who screw this up or just click Need for everything. I was in a group where a Legendary item dropped and 4 out of 6 hit Decline. When I won it on a Greed roll, they got [Removed for Content] at me. Why is this such a difficult thing for people to understand?

[Transen]

To those calling out "hand holding":Tell me, does it really bother you so much that other players can utilize these options?Trust me, they didn't put this in for you...they put it in for the people who asked for it.  And it's just an extra option to set looting to for a group.  You don't have to use it.  It's not hand holding, it's prefference. Some people like to pay attention to every little detail and some just want to burn that npc over there to a cinder. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Wildmage]

How Dare they improve the UI! how. Dare. They!/sarcasm off

[Rothgar]

<cite>Cracklepop wrote:</cite><blockquote>A"Greed" This new system is absolutely pointless.  If you don't like what shiny you picked up, destroy it or sell it.  Now you can just leave it there so no other better shiny spawns.   yay     This is the same kind of thing that leads to shrub nodes everywhere. The need/greed system is just stupid.   It IS sad that they had to patch the two buttons because ppl can't read what they say.  So they wasted time and money to move two buttons 1.5 inches.    Who said this was a good idea???Furthermore, we already had NBG.  It's called if you don't need it, you decline.  Problem solved. How about a new command?   /holdhand</blockquote>If a shiny is "opened" a timer starts on it, and if you don't pick it up, it will depop in 2 minutes and respawn somewhere else with a different collectible.NBG might not be for everyone, thats why we left Lotto in.

[Myster]

<cite>Cracklepop wrote:</cite><blockquote>It IS sad that they had to patch the two buttons because ppl can't read what they say.  So they wasted time and money to move two buttons 1.5 inches.    Who said this was a good idea???</blockquote>You know, the placement of the buttons like that annoyed me when the NBG stuff came out because i was used to clicking in a certain spot for stuff i didn't really care about winning or losing. So I fixed it for myself.... took me about 10 seconds to code the change for the window. And most of that time was spent going "what did they call that file again...". So it hardly wasted anyone's time and money to move the buttons around.

[Ver]

I think that when a player takes the "DECLINE" option, that too should be reported in the ouput ~ there should be credit to the player who declines just as much as seeing who picked NEED and who GREED.As for the window, it should have been redesigned to place NEED at the top, with GREED and DECLINE in the same positions as the LOTTO window.

[ke'la]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cracklepop wrote:</cite><blockquote>A"Greed" This new system is absolutely pointless.  If you don't like what shiny you picked up, destroy it or sell it.  Now you can just leave it there so no other better shiny spawns.   yay     This is the same kind of thing that leads to shrub nodes everywhere. The need/greed system is just stupid.   It IS sad that they had to patch the two buttons because ppl can't read what they say.  So they wasted time and money to move two buttons 1.5 inches.    Who said this was a good idea???Furthermore, we already had NBG.  It's called if you don't need it, you decline.  Problem solved. How about a new command?   /holdhand</blockquote>If a shiny is "opened" a timer starts on it, and if you don't pick it up, it will depop in 2 minutes and respawn somewhere else with a different collectible.NBG might not be for everyone, thats why we left Lotto in.</blockquote>So it works like an opened small chest then, that is nice.. I would hate to leave shrubs of ? around, so I was collecting them anyway.

[Jal]

<cite>Vered wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think that when a player takes the "DECLINE" option, that too should be reported in the ouput ~ there should be credit to the player who declines just as much as seeing who picked NEED and who GREED.As for the window, it should have been redesigned to place NEED at the top, with GREED and DECLINE in the same positions as the LOTTO window.</blockquote>If someone declines it just doesnt show output for them so no need to show it.

[Ver]

<cite>Kallarn@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vered wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think that when a player takes the "DECLINE" option, that too should be reported in the ouput ~ there should be credit to the player who declines just as much as seeing who picked NEED and who GREED.As for the window, it should have been redesigned to place NEED at the top, with GREED and DECLINE in the same positions as the LOTTO window.</blockquote>If someone declines it just doesnt show output for them so no need to show it.</blockquote>Yes. I know. And I'm saying I'd like to know who declined, and I'd like it reported to the rest of the group when I decline.How is it possible to set a good example when nobody knows what you've done?

[Jal]

Because it doesnt seem difficult to work out whos not on the need/greed lines of text if someone declines.

[ke'la]

Besides hitting Greed is just like hitting Decline if someone in the group needs it, and you don't have to wait for someone to accually say they need it, so how is it "showing a good exsample" to basicly do the exsact same thing everyone who is hitting greed is doing. I accually would say hitting Decline and wanting it reported is more a case of, I want everyone to know how good and giving I am, that I unlike you am willing to give up loot that I can't use, even though noone else can use it either.

[Ver]

Whatever.I just don't see how the inclusion of reportage on declining would adversely affect anyone, and I'd like to see at a glance who (and if anyone) declined.If you have a good reason why it shouldn't be included, I'm interested to hear it.

[Jal]

Because its more information being pumped to all clients that serves absolutely no purpose.6 people in a groupBobJohnFredJanePhilGandalfShiny item of uberness drops and people roll, loot window showsBob rolled GREEDJohn rolled NEEDFred rolled GREEDJane rolled NEEDPhil rolled GREEDJane wins 'Shiny item of uberness'Out of the 6 people 5 rolled 1 declined....who could it be.

[Sapphirius]

<p>After last night, I do have to say that the new position of the need & greed buttonsmade things easier for my group. Unfortunately, I was so used to them being the other way around that it took me some time to get used to it. Again, this is why I prefer guild groups and grouping with friends.</p><p>Also, thanks for the info about shinies. I did not know that. Now that I do, I'll save myself some bag space.</p>

[KBern]

<cite>Transen wrote:</cite><blockquote>To those calling out "hand holding":Tell me, does it really bother you so much that other players can utilize these options?Trust me, they didn't put this in for you...they put it in for the people who asked for it.  And it's just an extra option to set looting to for a group.  You don't have to use it.  It's not hand holding, it's prefference. Some people like to pay attention to every little detail and some just want to burn that npc over there to a cinder. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>What annoys me is SOE addressing ridiculous (IMO) changes as opposed to addressing the many other issues that are broken.  No, I wont list them.</p><p>And yes yes, different programmers, different people, blah blah...well assign them some different work then.</p><p>It also irks me that many people take no responsiblity for their own actions and want to be hand held so to speak.  It is an issue permeating society and it trickles into the game even.</p><p>Just makes me sad.</p>

[Kuld]

Funniest (and stupidest) change Ive ever seen.So now all of us who got used to the windows being in that order, now have to unlearn that method and relearn buttons in a new location.And less crying over NBG (notice its Need before Greed, not Need after Greed <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />). If you dont want to use it, dont! But Ive noticed that every single group I have been in has requested it be on. Saves us time and hassle stopping to ask 'do you need that, or that' or 'should I roll or does anyone need it?'Really is QQ city on these forums isnt it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Junaru]

<cite>Kuld wrote:</cite><blockquote>Funniest (and stupidest) change Ive ever seen.So now all of us who got used to the windows being in that order, now have to unlearn that method and relearn buttons in a new location.And less crying over NBG (notice its Need before Greed, not Need after Greed <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />). If you dont want to use it, dont! But Ive noticed that every single group I have been in has requested it be on. Saves us time and hassle stopping to ask 'do you need that, or that' or 'should I roll or does anyone need it?'Really is QQ city on these forums isnt it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>It's been in game for a few days. You act like the NBG system has always been in game.</p><p>Personally it scares me how many people don't understand the NBG concept. I still hear people in vent saying "Anyone need that?" or "Oh I decliend that cause I thought someone needed it." </p>

[DamianTV]

<p>Its very close to being an almost perfect idea.  Even if its not for everyone.</p><p>One complaint I've heard from a couple other ppl is that NBG is still an honesty based system and Leaders dont have the power to auto enforce except thru careful watching of what ppl have been awarded.  One person suggested showing whether they hit Need or Greed.  I can understand that point of view, and think at least Leader should be able to see this.  Maybe not everyone but Leader.  It wouldnt bother me if everyone could see it tho.  </p><p>The thing that makes this hard is enforcing the NEED rule.  Greeds easy, thats done.  But the Need part requires the ability to have enforcement or Group Leader or Raid Leader has to decide who gets what, which kills this system.  I can think of two things that players might check for, options only.  Class specific item.  Youre a Ranger and call NEED on a Paly Sword, yeah I dont think so.  Non class specific item.  Um, like a Rare.  Oh you already have one?  You dont NEED then.  Also it should be Optional on "Class Check Need" and "Already In Inventory Need" cuz well, Ranger might have a Paly that can use the sword, and some items need more than one of.  That would have to disregard No Trade Stackable items tho.</p>

[ChodeNode1]

Its funny the World of Warcraft community can handle it. Those guys are what I call the Least Common Denominator. Yet people here develop a hemorrhoid over it.

[Beldin_]

<cite>Saurakk@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>ROFL</p><p>First we have to hand hold players so much to change the shiny to a lotto and loot options to Need Greed crap.</p><p>Now even the order of the words was confusing some people?!?!</p><p>Sad sad state of affairs.</p></blockquote><p>Its because people simply get used to some things over the years. Do you think you would not be confused each time if maybe tomorrow it would be changed that you can cross the street when the traffic lights are RED instead of green.</p><p>The other thing is, even if WoW players are used to that system, for me GREED always sounds more like "i really really want to have that item" than NEED.</p>