Are SK [Removed for Content] as a read ? [Archive]

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yzyh

03-13-2008, 01:26 PM

When I come ehre and read about the SK I am wondering why I didnt roll anything else but a SK.if what I read is true SK:1) have the lowest aggro of all tank2) lower avoidance3) lowest dmg mitigation of all plate tank4) bring near to no utility while tanking5) have the hardest time in /lfg compared to all other 5tank.Even the brawler seems more attractive then a SK when I read those forums.....Is it true ? is the SK in EQ2 is that far from the SK in EQ1 ? (sometimes I wonder why is that game even named EQ2)

Grol

03-13-2008, 01:27 PM

It's not a tank. It's a caster-tank. A hybrid.

Soefje

03-13-2008, 02:17 PM

<cite>yzyh wrote:</cite><blockquote>When I come ehre and read about the SK I am wondering why I didnt roll anything else but a SK.if what I read is true SK:1) have the lowest aggro of all tank2) lower avoidance3) lowest dmg mitigation of all plate tank4) bring near to no utility while tanking5) have the hardest time in /lfg compared to all other 5tank.Even the brawler seems more attractive then a SK when I read those forums.....Is it true ? is the SK in EQ2 is that far from the SK in EQ1 ? (sometimes I wonder why is that game even named EQ2)</blockquote>My replies would be:1. We have to work harder to maintain aggro, esp. in a pickup group, than a Guard will. Basically, you can't guild chat and tank, you have to pay attention and work a little harder. That being said, so far, the only zones (I don't raid) I have had problems with are the ones in which the DPS or the healers were not good. I find it annoying that most of the time it takes 2 healers to clear an instance, but that can be worked around.2. True3. Not sure this is true. When I have been in groups with equal level guardians and zerkers, I seem to have similiar MIT. At least it is close enough that I believe the lifetaps will compensate enough not to matter. To me MIT is about gear more than class, and with the diminishing returns, it really is not that much different.4. I think we bring some utility,but not great and I would like to see some of our buffs change to help a generalized group more. In the right type of group, the disease debuffs work well. Death touch needs to be seriously increased. I was grouping with my nephews brusiser and he was 2 hitting green con MOBs. I would have to get a fairly low level mob before I can 2 hit it. I would like to see Death Touch be a % of the MOBs health, and perhaps an instant kill if the MOB is below a certain health level. I would like to see FD dropped to a 2-3 min recast timer that can be decreased to a 1 min with AA points.5. I am not sure. I do know that I have had nights where I put my LFG tag up and started doing quests and 2 to 3 hours later stopped without ever getting a tell or random invite. I do think that as the game moves on and many of the primary tanks start working on alts, groups get easier to find. This is what happened on my server for EOF. I have begun to group with the same people on multiple occasions and will now get tells to come tank for them. So, I think this can be as much about reputation as about class. Now that being said, if a Guardian or a SK is LFG and the group needs a tank, I bet the Guard gets first tell.Those are my thought. I like my SK, even when I play alts for a while, I keep coming back. I know many of the people that are complaining on these boards are raiders. So there perspectives might be different. I have only been on 1 or 2 raids in the entire game, and they were to complete HQs. My guild is not a raiding guild and I don't see prospects of ever getting into an established raiding guild.My thoughts.

Mathafern

03-13-2008, 02:28 PM

jagermonsta

03-13-2008, 03:56 PM

A SK is only as good as the person playing it...

Cadi

03-13-2008, 11:24 PM

SKs have good dps potential! =D But a little weak in the aggro department without their special abilities up

Noxxia

03-14-2008, 02:14 AM

My SK has the best items plat can buy and they are adorned in the same way. Most of my spells are M1, I have a destrier mount that adds +s for attacks in outdoor zones and I parked the toon hoping for better abilities in the future. My AA's are tweaked for aggro and DPS and my 44 zerk would eat this toon for lunch.

Mathafern

03-14-2008, 09:08 AM

<cite>Barakijal@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>My SK has the best items plat can buy and they are adorned in the same way. Most of my spells are M1, I have a destrier mount that adds +s for attacks in outdoor zones and I parked the toon hoping for better abilities in the future. My AA's are tweaked for aggro and DPS and my 44 zerk would eat this toon for lunch.</blockquote>SK can do melee, spell, or both. You're not tweaked for any of those three- you've boosted stats for spells with your gear, but left them lacking in your AAs. Going down the str line is good, but you're wasting points on str stat (only need 4) and Idolic Axe- go int for damage before Idolic Axe. 4-4-8 int is important if you're going to go the spell route- which your armor has. Since you've gone str, I'd swap gear to vanguard and lose int to agi- which works for SKs at lower levels, avoidance tanking and doing more melee damage. Remember for aggro you've got three rescues. Rescue, Harm Touch, and Death March. Idolic Axe is wasted till your AAs are almost maxxed.

jagermonsta

03-14-2008, 09:20 AM

I really don't understand the complaints... maybe it's just me but I have no problem ranking high for DPS and keeping aggro. Not sure what other people are doing wrong...

Margen

03-14-2008, 10:26 AM

Its not so much Shadow Knights are Gimped when looking at them in a vacum, but its when comparing them to the other tank classes that things become more problomatic.When comparitivly geared to another tank, we have the lowest HPs. We also have the lowest avoidance of any of the plate tanks. Our agro is the weakest also when compared to other tanks, yes we can keep agro, but its much more difficult. If your in a group without a good hate transfer and have brigands/monks/wizards or warlocks it can become frustrating. Granted any of these classes can peel agro from any tank, but we don't really have a built in hate decrease/transfer like Guardians and pallys have.Dps, we used to be able to own Guardians in this department and could possibly put out some fairly impressive dps, but Guardians have been getting more and more dps while we have remained stagnent in that department. We always have had difficulty keeping up with beserkers in dps, especially when tanking, with beserkers having better agro and surviabilty. We still beat pallys by a fair amount, but with all the agro tools, and utilitly they can bring that really isn't a minus for pallys.Our lifetaps haven't kept up with the amount of damage ROK mobs do. So people look at the HP pool vs life taps, because the HP's differantial makes it easier for healers to handle spike damage.As for raiding, we need help. The number of raiding SKs get fewer and fewer each week. They either are betraying <blahh> or playing "alts" for raiding. Our dps isn't going to compare with true dps classes and we aren't built for being either the best MT (guaridans have dominated that postion) or off tank (Guaridans and Pallys are holding that postion). Our utilitly isn't that awsome, a 98 spell plus damage was good in EOF, but with all the spell pluses on gear in ROK, it deminishes the use of that buff. DM is a nice spell, but its tier six, with out an update, and since almost every fight is a single mob in raids, it really is only a ten second buff every two minutes.As for the argument that we have three rescues, you really can't count Death Touch any more in that, I've used it many times, and the mobs don't budge.The argument that its the player behind the toon, doesn't wash, that argument can be made for ANY class, but its SK that are listed last for raid desriability. Yeah a awsome player with a SK can do a better job then a horrible Guardian, but if both players are competant then the Guardian is much better at filling our main role. Are Sk broken, No, but they do need to be looked at and tweaked.

xandez

03-14-2008, 10:29 AM

nm, previous poster kinda already said what i wanted anyway <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />++Xan

Mathafern

03-14-2008, 10:54 AM

<cite>Blackoath@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>... When comparitivly geared to another tank, we have the lowest HPs. ... As for the argument that we have three rescues, you really can't count Death Touch any more in that, I've used it many times, and the mobs don't budge....</blockquote> I've got 10.5k hps self-buffed. Plus, I've got pools of blood, which my group's healer LOVES- remember, that negative hitpoint range counts, only death matters. And lastly I've got bloodletter. So when I'm tanking a group with decent buffs I can take about 28k damage straight up before I'm dead. Show me a guardian who can do that. I've got a lot of +spell damage on. My Death Touch takes full advantage of ALL of it. I also make a point of actually debuffing at some point during the fight- so that it works even better. A lot of people skip debuffing in favor of DPS, HUGE MISTAKE. At any rate, I've never had Death Touch fail to get me aggro back, at least momentarily.

Margen

03-14-2008, 11:41 AM

I have around 10.2k myself, but that doesn't change the fact that in equal gear the other tanks will have more.Bloodletter is a nice spell, but it is limited, one proc (which it should be) and it can be debuffed (which IMO it shouldn't be) and can not be recast in combat. I have pools also, which is nice, but it doesnt make up for raw hps.I always debuff, but so, debuff agro is weak to say the least, always has been.As for DT, I sit at almost 500 INT in defensive with 70 spell crit and around 300spell plus and I've had it numerous times it will not budge the mob.

yzyh

03-14-2008, 12:15 PM

<cite>Mathafern@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Blackoath@Kithicor wrote:</cite>I've got 10.5k hps self-buffed. Plus, I've got pools of blood, which my group's healer LOVES- remember, that negative hitpoint range counts, only death matters. And lastly I've got bloodletter. So when I'm tanking a group with decent buffs I can take about 28k damage straight up before I'm dead. Show me a guardian who can do that.</blockquote>it does mean nothing. Yeah a guardian may cant take 28k DMG b4 diying but where you get 28k damage the guardian would have take lower damage.SoE should remind how they made EQ1 IMO.Warrior had the best ability to handle getting hit and had lower dps then sk (till end game). SK had the best AoE aggro and the best long therm aggro. They could handle beeing hit not as good as Warriors but they where on par with Paladin. (their Life tap would made it for the minor lower AC over paladin). SK FD would make them one of the best puller in game. They also had the best DPS (till end game)Paladin had the weakest long therm aggro but the best Instant aggro. They also had really nice buff to compensate their so weak dps (exept vs undead) and to make it for their lowest long therm aggro.Actualy in EQ1 you really needed all 3tank to raid. having no paladin or no SK could made some raid really messy.Now I look at the SK in EQ2. Their DPS is bleh at best (brawler and monk do betther, if I belive what poeple say wehre on tie with zerker and guardian depending on the situation). We got the lowest aggro out of all tanks. We got some utility tool (mostly buffs) but nothing to say it worth thinking about it. (paladin beat us on utility and monk/ zerker/ guardian still have buffs)Actualy in a PuG I don,t see any reason to pick a SK over another player (key word is PuG) and in raid I have not yet heard anything that would make poeple think they will have it easier with a SK. (its a chance that I wont raid).Personaly I will still play my SK bcuz I like it to duo with my brother. But i feel sad for thsoe fo you who play SK as Main.

Nocifer Deathblade

03-14-2008, 12:21 PM

My lvl 80 SK is about similar geared as my lvl 80 bruiser.. Yet.. my bruiser has about 1,100 more hp than my Sk. How sad....Sk gear set up is way too divided into 4 stats while bruiser only worry about 3 stats.. Plus, SK gear is too divided into two camps: CA and Spells while bruisers only worry about boosting CA and melee-related stats enjoying full benefit of those stats while SK only enjoy "half" benefit from either stat camps.. Sad...For so many years that I devoted my time playing SK since day one of EQ1 and also EQ2.. I found myself having blast time playing bruiser over SK realizing how weak SK had gotten especially latest itemization and the heart of Sk's mechanic system. We didn't have CA bonus or spell bonus and we didn't have AA upon launch so SK wasn't bad. Now, it is more noticable over expansions that set the gap bigger from other tanks. When I played bruiser and joined groups, I HARDLY saw crusaders to tank. We kept getting warriors as main choice for group tank so far.. When we finally got SK to tank, I saw problems and I had to switch to deaggro proc so I won't take aggro off SK cuz I totally understand how he feels.. I had no problem keeping aggro+DD procing buff on if I have warrior as tank in group. SAD!!!I am basically putting Nocifer SK in "statis chamber" til later when SK class finally receive what it deserves.. SK class in EQ1 had improved greatly to desired class that I throughoutly enjoying it..I often tempted to unretire Nocifer in EQ1 just to play Sk class once again cuz it's design is RIGHT.. Compared to EQ2 SK... But I am enjoying bruiser alot so far hehe. Nice change of scenary after so many years.. He is Hulksmasher and he is ogre but his size is already at 70%. SO freaking huge and standing female human head is already below his waist level if you get an idea... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />Bottonline.. I am not satisfied with SK class at this time. You would have to work HARDER to be equal to other average tanks.. We are not supposed to work harder than other classes to achieve same thing.. That is not a proper class balance..

CHIMPNOODLE.

03-14-2008, 04:42 PM

<cite>yzyh wrote:</cite> <blockquote>1) have the lowest aggro of all tankPerhaps on singles, on multis and non linked....no.2) lower avoidanceYes. Does it matter? Not much really, and the difference is very small vs stronger mobs, particularly vs raid mobs (due to only uncontested avoidance being of much use). Tap backs to consider as well here.3) lowest dmg mitigation of all plate tankFalse against multis (SKs have the higest potenttial MIT of all tanks), competitive enough vs singles with SA and mists. Tapbacks to consider as well here. Not diificult to hit dim returns anyway.4) bring near to no utility while tankingFalse (though bards we are not lol).5) have the hardest time in /lfg compared to all other 5tank.The opposite really. Sks are top choice, with Pallys, usually. Crusaders excel in group content.</blockquote>

novafluxx

03-14-2008, 05:57 PM

If you read the forums...every class sucks. No one is happy. They ALL claim to have the lowest DPS, lowest utility, etc.Honestly, just play [Removed for Content] ya like...because trying to get a straight answer on these forums is like trying to negotiate with a termite.Nothing against any of you, but I have been looking at the class forums trying to figure out whats really right for me, and every class forum I visit. THEY are the WORST class and MOST nerfed in the game!Rangers claim it, Monks claim it, Bruisers claim it, SK claim it...Honestly I should stick to my Necro... lol

Harvash

03-14-2008, 10:05 PM

I am beginning to think SoE's plan to make this game appeal to every simpleton with a wallet is a success. This is not directed at the OP btw, just a statement about how some of the player base views SK's as well as, in my opinion, how the less informed SK see's their own class. The issues are always the same: SK's don't have go aggro skills, they don't do good dps, they don't have utility...wha wha wha, etc.These make me truely saddened that it has come to this.Just the other night, I asked in WW SK how many people were still running arounded in that rtard defensive stance - I got many people who said (rightfully imho) that it is worthless. Some however gave many reasons they are using it - none truely valid. I think people don't read their skills sometimes - oh, this buff says defensive, I must use it when tanking..../sigh. To place a disclaimer here, I am not saying it does not have its uses, I am saying that it is a very poor choice of default stance.On to aggro, holy nooblets batman - with all the AE's, drains, health taps, etc. you would have to being try NOT to have aggro for this to be issue - or once again, you don't read the skill, don't ask questions and don't seek advice. Oh, btw - INT boost + weapons skills > the silly butt aggression modifier on def. stance (See Above)Mitigation, not sure what the arguement here is: we wear plate, warriors wear plate, how the heck can u have that much difference. Another disclaimer, yes itemization for us can be somewhat difficult and not all Plate drops are for all Plate wears. Side note, we do have a mit siphon - I know its a little craptastic, but it does boost the mit.Avoidance - ok, ya got me here, our avoidance is on the lower end - usually because I am weilding a big honking 2H with all the INT and STR I can find and tbh, I don't feel a real need to have to "avoid" a dead mob - which is how they all end up. Utililty: little weak here but we do have some mentionables. Group Proc for damage & health (nice), Spell damage mod (very nice if not capped in current group), STA buff (err..nm, with T8, stat buffs are junk) and a little known secret called Death March, which I simply havent heard anyone complain about when I toss it up.Finally, Grouping: This is the weakest of all arguments, there are many, many reasons people don't find groups and I am not going into them here - proly covered in another thread doing it justice anyways. I can say that most of the LFM chat I see is for a tank/healer....dps is half the player base (maybe more)...also, there is the default answer to this - assemble your group! BTW, if that doesnt work very well, its unlikely that anything else you were playing was going to find a group either. Parting Thought: Learn your class fully, research it, find a mentor to help you get better - in the end, play what you like, don't worry about the other guy so much and try to have fun, after all...this is a game!G

yzyh

03-14-2008, 11:19 PM

<cite>novafluxx wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you read the forums...every class sucks. No one is happy. They ALL claim to have the lowest DPS, lowest utility, etc.Honestly, just play [I cannot control my vocabulary] ya like...because trying to get a straight answer on these forums is like trying to negotiate with a termite.Nothing against any of you, but I have been looking at the class forums trying to figure out whats really right for me, and every class forum I visit. THEY are the WORST class and MOST nerfed in the game!Rangers claim it, Monks claim it, Bruisers claim it, SK claim it...Honestly I should stick to my Necro... lol</blockquote>Actualy if you read the forums those class seems to be happy.Paladin/ Guardian/ Illusionist/ Necromancer/ conjuror (wiz and warlock seems somewhat happy)/ all the 6priest class seems somewhate happy/ Swashy seems to be happy also and Brigand deeply love their toons.So its 16class out of 24 that I see not really complaining.It is not as bad as WoW where even the OP class whine.

TheSpin

03-15-2008, 04:09 PM

Every single problem you mentioned about SKs can be overcome except for 1, and that is the lack of avoidence. Instead of Avoidence SKs get lifetaps to help heal themselves and they work well for most heroic stuff, but when it comes to raid tanking the avoidence is much more preferable and SKs lose favor.It's also true that SKs need to workt he hardest on their gear because they have a lot more areas to focus on. It's really hard to balance stats with both combat art increases and spell increases, and then you have to add avoidence gear into all that as well. Current itemization makes it almost impossible to give the class stats that put him up on par with the warriors who don't need to worry about Int or +spell damage etc.