Commentary on a recent eye opener for this EQ2 Player [Archive]

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Harlock

03-13-2008, 04:17 AM

This game is a beautiful, well put together, Player vs Environment game with rich history set on a huge play area. That is where the buck stops though. The player vs player aspect is still an obvious afterthought that SOE has failed to impliment sucessfully even after 3 years of post launch development.The PvP player community is childish if not populated by children***. hearing how dozens of players aoe a single area with intent to bring down the server, to have SOE disable the npc in this area, the players then take it upon themselves to hit the noob zones with their twinks (these are the lower level characters that they have outfitted with the very best equipment and the very best level of skills) . ****The deduction that they are children is supported with some very simple logic. Only the child would ruin everyone elses fun for the sake of having fun themselves.***The repugnant lack of maturity I have witnessed in this game was further shown when I recently had the revealing opportunity of meeting a couple of these folks on a team speak server.The bravado they displayed in text chat, taunting others and condiscending those that would bring up a valid challenge to their behaviour, dissappeared into an ever so slight quiver in their voice when confronted by a [Removed for Content] off adult. I will tell you this, I was a little suprised to find that the voices did not infact belong to ten year olds but rather colledge kids. And that at least ten year olds would have been acting their age; did not make me feel any better towards these "punks".I write this in hopes to put a bit of perspective to the numerous arguments I see in the game, most of the people you will deal with in this game are in fact children or grownups who are unnaturally immature. (whether that immaturity be social, emotional or intellectual)Yet, there are those few exceptions, oddly enough most that I have encountered have been female, So I say this with all sincerety, if you come across a guild with a few of these gems, search no further because I promise you, the grass is not greener anywhere else.I will attempt to wrap up this quasi-rant by saying, though this community has much room for improvement, I do not remember it being so at the launch of EQ2 three years ago. So either that crowd moved onto greener pastures, or that group has de-evolved into what I have been witness to as of late. If this crowd is the original, now de-evolved crowd, then I can only blame SOE for griefing its customers to such an extent that they have given up playing a game for the enjoyment of all but rather to inflict their frustration on others via the game vehicle itself.If this crowd is a new crowd, then I wish SOE would start disciplining these trouble makers through suspensions and account bans.Either way, I believe SOE has the power and ability to rectify what is wrong with this game and bring all levels of the product to the excellence we see reflected in the PVE aspects. I am not so convinced that the will to excercise this change is within the hearts and minds of SOE.thank you for your time (and please forgive the spelling)

03-13-2008, 04:35 AM

Unfortunatly IN my experience your general observation is true for all PvP enviroments. Now that being said, yes there are adults that play and also play maturely how common that is i have no clue in eq2 but frankly the whole "pvp" thing got on my nerves so much i just said the heck with all pvp in all games anymore. It's not that I'm not skilled it's the "childish" attidudes i see so much that repulse me. As to PvP for this game, I have seen others make similar posts about it being an after thought, I truely can't answer that because ... I don't pvp in eq2. Maybe posting on the pvp boards might get you some response but mostlikely it will be the "childish" crowd that will respond. Although the one suggestion I have read many times is GET A GUILD on a pvp server, if your solo you are really F*ed. At least that is what I've read I truely can't answer if that is or isn't the case.Note: when I say "childish" i an not referencing anyones age, i am refering to their mental capacity. I have seen childish folks who were older then me, and yet way more mature folks who are very young.

Screengu

03-13-2008, 06:00 AM

Both posts hit the nail on the head. I would much rather have people like that all on one or two servers then to have them spread out among other servers. Unfortunately while most of them fight each other to become king of the [Removed for Content] you get a couple that reign uncontested on normal servers.

Teyaha

03-13-2008, 06:34 AM

you get no sympathy from me, OPnot every mmorpg on the planet HAS to have pvp. in fact this genre was builts from games that didnt even have dueling or arenas for the most partthere are currently over 140 running mmorpg's in english. most of th em are free to play. most of them offer free for all pvp. go play one

Rattfa

03-13-2008, 06:53 AM

Thank you for tarring the entire population with the same brush. I also LOL at the PvEers who jump in and tell everyone how horrible PvP is, and how horrible and childish all the PvPers are...when they have no idea what they are talking about. Grats to all of you!I have characters on both PvP and PvE servers, and the general maturity level is pretty much the same. Of course now everyone is going to read the OPs post and come to the conclusion that PvP servers are that much different based on his observations of a few idiots (which there are on every server fyi).

Loolee

03-13-2008, 07:26 AM

I tried pvp, and the very reasons I don't anymore are listed in the op's statement.And I gladly accept the mantle of "care bear." thankyouverymuch

Screengu

03-13-2008, 07:29 AM

He stated that PvP servers at one point weren't as they are today, so obviously he does have an idea. I LOL at the people that post before they read everything when they have no idea what they are talking about. Grats to you!

Rattfa

03-13-2008, 07:59 AM

<cite>Screengurl wrote:</cite><blockquote>He stated that PvP servers at one point weren't as they are today, so obviously he does have an idea. I LOL at the people that post before they read everything when they have no idea what they are talking about. Grats to you!</blockquote>Grats to you, I know full well that the OP has played on PvP. He has also tarred the entire community with the same very large brush. Falsely.My 'lol @ PvEers' statement was aimed at the first 2 replies, not the OP. Including you I hasten to add, because you have no idea what you're talking about.

Kellin

03-13-2008, 10:38 AM

I've played both PvE and PvP, and I make no bones about preferring PvE. I just don't get the thrill from besting another player that so many others get, so the whole concept leaves me kind of cold.The competitiveness of PvP is what attracts the trash-talking, childish types. PvE just doesn't offer the same rush, so they tend to be more concentrated in PvP environments, and since EQ2 only has a very few of those, they tend to be far more noticeable. They also tend to be obnoxious and mouthy, another trait that only endears them to their own kind.My own theory is that the ones on PvE servers are the ones that couldn't hack it in PvP. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Anyway, it seems to be just another manifestation of the "you can't actually see or reach me in real life, so I can be as obnoxious as I please" type of personality. You know it well - they cut you off in traffic and then flip you off.Anyway, while there may be more of these treasures on the PvP servers, that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of nice people. They just aren't as attention-seeking and annoying. But unfortunately, there's no way to control who plays the game, and as long as they follow the rules, there's no way to stop them. If they prefer shooting fish in a barrel to actually working for those player kills, well, it's unfortunate, but also is a fact of PvP life.As for PvP in EQ2 feeling like an afterthought, well, it is. They didn't even implement it until the game had been out for a year or so, and it's common knowledge that SOE had said they didn't even want PvP in the game. As a result, it's going to feel a bit thrown-together, and since most of the playerbase is PvE, it's going to receive less attention from the devs.

03-13-2008, 11:06 AM

<cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Screengurl wrote:</cite><blockquote>He stated that PvP servers at one point weren't as they are today, so obviously he does have an idea. I LOL at the people that post before they read everything when they have no idea what they are talking about. Grats to you!</blockquote>Grats to you, I know full well that the OP has played on PvP. He has also tarred the entire community with the same very large brush. Falsely.My 'lol @ PvEers' statement was aimed at the first 2 replies, not the OP. Including you I hasten to add, because you have no idea what you're talking about.</blockquote>And yet you have to actually pull your head out of your <censor>to actually read what i posted. I have PvP'd in many games before eq2, I choose due to folks and personalites that really just rake on my nerves to STOP playing pvp. It has nothing to do with skill it has everything to do with the "childish" mentality that you are currently displaying. ANyways laugh all you want, I still get my enjoyment just like YOU get your enjoyment out of this or other games. I simply wish you good journeys and consider this done even if you don't which you probably won't.

Harlock

03-13-2008, 12:17 PM

<cite> Well Tayaha, wasn't looking for your sympathy so go troll for a fight somewhere else....</cite><cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thank you for tarring the entire population with the same brush. I also LOL at the PvEers who jump in and tell everyone how horrible PvP is, and how horrible and childish all the PvPers are...when they have no idea what they are talking about. Grats to all of you!I have characters on both PvP and PvE servers, and the general maturity level is pretty much the same. Of course now everyone is going to read the OPs post and come to the conclusion that PvP servers are that much different based on his observations of a few idiots (which there are on every server fyi).</blockquote>Rattface my post clearly shows that I am not tarring the entire community, but after reading the little spat you and another poster got into on my thread I would definately include you in the tarring.Now that being said, instead of playing some kind of blame game, lets try and come up with some solution to an issue that clearly a majority of us recognise. We are all reading the forum hence we have seen the best and worst this game has and are sticking it out (hopefully for better days to come).As for myself, if I haven't been clear with what I would like seen done, let me demonstrate; If a renter of my property decied to take it upon himself to cause grief of any kind with my other renters, I would evict him so fast that his [I cannot control my vocabulary] would have skid marks from the curb where I bounced him. Just as this property is mine, so is EQ2 SOE's property. if they took the kind of ownership that many of us need to see in order to enjoy this game to its fullest then perhapse we would see the truely superb pvp comunity that this game deserves.So to get a little more finite; if I were SOE and a few dozen people started AOEing the pvp writ giver after the server has already crashed from this action. I would give them all 1 warning via the system message, after that each account involved would not only be suspended but the characters would be deleted and the accounts terminated. I would do this even if it cost 1/2 the population of the pvp server in question. its kind of like weeding in a guarden, if you leave the guarden with weeds yes it will be a full guarden but it will look like crap. if you weed it flowers can grow where weeds once flourished.Next I would impliment 'distractions' for the pvpers. Not the WoW style battle grounds but rather non instance zones on the server where open warfare is going on betwen 2-3 factions of npc's where pvp writs and other pvp quests are distributed, I would make the rewards attractive enough to a pvper to hopefully encourage the ganker / griefer community to focus on this new aspect. Now mind you the rewards would not be successfully usable in pvp outside of the pvp zones, instead we are talking about special rewards like castle and ship style housing and maybe even small comunities to help increase the pvper's wealth. (not to metnion rank style tytles showing that this guy is the 'pvpdoodlemaster' of the curent moment.So as you can see the basic idea I have is to reward those that play to bring something constructive and enjoyable for all, and punish those that would seek to take away from the community.For those of you who find this idea offensive to your play style, I suggest in this case YOU go find another game to play because we the grownups are tired of your temper tantrum fuled game style.Good day.

Mychel

03-13-2008, 02:34 PM

<cite>I'm just gonna summerize the OP's post, break it down for those not wanting to read the entire thing </cite><cite>"You Kids get off my Lawn!"</cite><cite>/shakes Fist </cite><cite></cite><cite></cite>

skerry

03-13-2008, 04:31 PM

To the OP.You are absolutely correct in your assertation of the state of PVP. This is mainly because PVP here IS in fact an afterthought <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> When this game first came out they actually were pretty sure with their words at least that there would be no PVP. That of course changed later on.As for the PVP community, well as others have said that is the PVP world as a whole sadly. Until they come up with a way for accountability to be added into the PVP world you will always have the childish and the immature run rampant - unchecked.Enjoy!

Harlock

03-13-2008, 05:06 PM

<cite>Mychel@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>I'm just gonna summerize the OP's post, break it down for those not wanting to read the entire thing </cite><cite>"You Kids get off my Lawn!"</cite><cite>/shakes Fist </cite><cite></cite><cite></cite></blockquote> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIZ-SGljHik" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIZ-SGljHik</a><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Runestone

03-13-2008, 06:05 PM

PVP happened on a PVP server? Imagine for a moment they had forums a few thousand years ago. I just know the OP would be the first to post "Some jackholes just razed my village!". When in fact he could have simply sent a stern letter to his landlord King Something III.

Te'ana

03-13-2008, 06:16 PM

My husband and I actually came to EQ2 as refugees from another MMO that went PvP. The change there was horrendous. EQ2 initially promised there would NEVER be PvP. In a sense they have kept their word because there are separate PvP servers. There was a huge outcry from a very few people that if "done right" PvP was exhilerating and added that "extra something" to gameplay. They begged for PvP and got it.Unfortunately, human nature is such that PvP inevitably leads to gangs and encourages Mafia type behaviors. I have even heard a dad in a PvE chat channel proudly talk about how his kid and another would trick crafters into certain areas where they could "roll" them! How disgusting!Most of the people who play EQ2 prefer PvE. SOE even shut down the PvP test servers for a very long time. They recently reopened and are begging people to join up by offering to copy thier high level characters over to PvP test.

StormCinder

03-13-2008, 06:51 PM

I have to agree with the responses that say the OP is complaining because "PvP happened on a PvP server."What you describe is what PvP is. That's what happens in PvP games/servers. It's obviously a bad fit. It's the same reason I don't play Counterstrike, Halo or any of those other FPS PvP games. As the great A.P. once said, "That's not my bag, baby." It sounds like it's not the OP, either.There's nothing to "fix." What you described is/has been the playstyle for some time. Others have adapted to it. Many have started quite recently and are quite successful, despite this "game-breaking" griefing you point out. If you cannot, then move along. But don't try to change the rules to make others play the way YOU want them to play.SC

Teyaha

03-13-2008, 08:29 PM

when an mmorpg - please note the RPG part, as guild wars is NOT AN RPG - is built from the ground up with pvp in mind, it does well. dark age of camelot was a brilliant success until they made RvR overly complicated with the New Frontiers patch. of course it didnt help them that they released taht patch the same month city of heroes launched (april '04) and while not having pvp, was a unique game that brought a lot of players to it if even for a short while.and of course 7 months later WoW and EQ2 launched, with the former having pvp servers at launchin order for pvp to appeal to more than a niche or asian players, it needs to reward you. DAoC had the best rewards system, and keeping all RvR in places that had absolutely NO pve value but were not instanced also was brilliant and to this day you can not name me another pvp mmorpg that say the 300k-at-its-peak subscriber numberf of DAoC (eve only recently broke 100k active accounts) of course the one-two punch of artifacts from atlantis and new frontiers killed daoc off, with most of it's population now on the classic servers. this game had no pvp at first. neither did eq1. that's because the mud the game is based on likewise had no pvp. the mud had split about 6 years previous and has a hardcore-pvp version where when i kill you, i get to take EVERYTHING off yoru corpse and keep it. that's a game for real men. for real pvp'ers. unless you've spent a year or more there you really arent any less of a care-bear th an the pve'ers you toss that label on. pvp should always have consequences.