Looky whats on test

[KatrinaDeath]

<p>This is the solution <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=410803" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">!!!!!!!!!!</a></p><p>I 100% disagree with this!</p><p>Discuss</p>

[Rxmedic]

They could've found a better way to fix it.Increasing the /recent list to be unlimited so people can't just mass zerg and cycle each other off recent is one way.Also, fixing the server lag that is occurring on EVERY SERVER (not just Nagafen) would be a good start.inb4 excessive negativity b&hammer

[Edavi]

Sigh, so many better ways they could have fixed itWhy oh why oh why dont they listen to anyones /feedback that doesnt have "the Exiled" at the end of their name?

[Magic8Ba]

How does a cool down theoretically stop hundreds of people from camping  the writ giver?  Because after we complete the writ the idea is we all log off for 20mins?  Because at the heart of this idea is we ONLY pvp for the tokens.  Though this may be true to some level, what will they do if the server still crashes because so many people just want to pvp?So basically there is now a cap of 15 tokens an hr (still a good number, just  so unimaginative....)- Blink

[Brimestar]

For the love of all that is warm and fuzzy in this world, go back to body drops.

[Balbas]

<cite>Brimestar wrote:</cite><blockquote>For the love of all that is warm and fuzzy in this world, go back to body drops.</blockquote><span style="color: #ff0099;"><span style="font-size: xx-large;">QFT (QUOTED FOR TRUTH)</span></span>

[Geoff]

<cite>Magic8Ball wrote:</cite><blockquote>How does a cool down theoretically stop hundreds of people from camping  the writ giver? </blockquote>I don't know that it does...what it does stop is the farming of tokens, which it looks like SOE did not intend.  But no one is gonna camp the writ giver, people are going to go look for the updates, and then instead of evacing and waiting 15 minutes for evac to be up, they'll wait 20.

[Amatheon]

Lol way to not upgrade the servers to handle it and throw in some bandage fix.  This is just stupid.  This is what we are waiting for to go in?  This takes all weekend plus to figure out?  Gimme a break, this game is going down the tubes.  Evac and immunity is already way overused in this game and now it will be utilized even more.   Groups are going to fight once get their updates then sit in immunity while waiting for their timers to tick down.  Now yes you can go out and keep pvping but we know 95 percent of the people are not going to do it.  This is completely the worst possible idea that could be implemented.

[Norrsken]

<cite>Amatheon@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol way to not upgrade the servers to handle it and throw in some bandage fix.  This is just stupid.  This is what we are waiting for to go in?  This takes all weekend plus to figure out?  Gimme a break, this game is going down the tubes.  </blockquote>No, this probably took the morning of monday to figure out.the weekend holiday for writ givers were just to keep the servers from crashing.

[Sightless]

<p>This cool down timer is just TOO LONG!!! It isn't feasible, or even reasonable. A better cooldown timer would be 5-10 minutes.</p><p>With a 20 minute cool down timer IF YOU CAN FINISH A WRIT EVERY 20 MINUTES would mean 27 hours of straight PvP, to get one piece of armor. Sometimes PvP comes in spikes, you have it going strong for 1 hour, then it's gone for 3 hours. This is not a good fix.</p>

[Exzile]

Such a shame, Im undecided whether to continue playing until AoC/Warhammer comes, Im gone by then thats for sure, unacceptable solution, failed to acknowledge the main problem with unbalanced factions completely - let alone comment on it. PVE is PVE, PVP is dead to me, shouldve stayed on Guk and gotten tired of the game over time instead - feel so much time has been wasted playing on this crappy server now.

[seahawk]

<p>The reality is putting a 20 minute cool down timer on the writ giver is the <b><i>simpliest</i></b> fix.  </p><p>Any suggestions on how to actually make the writs work requires much more work.  Simply put, they took the easy way out.</p><p>** side note -- I am usually a half glass full kind of person, but tbh .. the way SoE has handled tokens, writs and pvp of late is really starting to wear on me.  There was a time when I couldn't envision I would ever stop playing this game, .....</p><p> ... that was a long time ago. =/</p>

[Roald]

Meh

[Damurderer]

I am done with this game, i have three accounts, i am canceling all of them.  Sony should just stick to dvd players and blu-ray.   Exiles are getting there mythicals and we cant even pvp  to get gear anymore.

[Amphibia]

Meh. Oh well, I guess it could have been worse. Not crazy about a 20 minute cooldown, but there is always evac and perma immunity....Why not just have 1 writ giver pr. city, make all writs require 400 kills and all gear pieces require 400 tokens, and get it over with?

[Bloodfa]

What the hell is with the insane attachment to tokens?  They're not even needed.  Implement something that doesn't use tokens.  Implement something that doesn't involve gangbanging the writgiver.  Seriously, guys, when something doesn't work, and you patch it, and you fix it, and it still isn't what you're looking for, go back to the damned drawingboard.  Admit that maybe there's a better way to implement it than you originally thought.  There are a dozen better suggestions on the various threads, from the people actually PvPing for PvP gear rewards of the freaking PvP server, you'd think that maybe one of those might ... oh, I don't know, reward people for PvPing?  Get writ ... zone into last zone the 70-79 chat said there was a group of enemies ... run in ... kill the enemies ... go back to town for the cooldown.  You don't think it's going to be raids all over again?  Or that raids won't try to time it with other raids to maximize effectiveness against the enemy raids?  And that having <b><i>everybody hit the writgiver at the same time </i></b>is <i>not</i> going to crash the server?  The server's going to crash again with this change.  Only now it'll be with less tokens.

[Dimgl]

<span style="color: #00cc99;">Hahahaha.Absolute abject failure.The SIMPLEST FIX is to just let the PVP merchants be FACTION merchants and consume faction like god merchants. Tokens are the most unnecessary complication ever.They take up pack space. They're random. They're a terrible idea.But this idea? This is even worse.PEOPLE WILL SIT IN IMMUNITY NOW UNTIL THEIR WRITS COOL DOWN.Both evac points will be clusters of STUPIDITY, and then a group will go out, get their one writ, evac and be AFK for 20 minutes. Heck evac even cools down before the writs.This will only DISCOURAGE PVP. If PVP was crashing servers and hogging resources then PROVIDE INSTANCED PVP where people can complete objectives, be isolated from the world, and earn their rewards.</span>

[Damurderer]

Only chance of getting this fixed is if everyone and I mean everyone who is opposed to it does /feedback and posts on this thread<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=410825�" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...25�</a>

[Butcher]

<p>I previously posted this on another thread.  I apologize if I am being redundant.  I prefer to use these forums to offer solutions, rather than to just complain.  I realize that the devs will probably never read this and will probably just ignore it if they do but I am ever hopeful.</p><p>My suggestions for fixing faction pvp on Nagafen:</p><p>Put the writ givers only in the faction cities and increase the number of kills required (opposing faction or exile) and increase the number of tokens rewarded.  Only allow Freeps to turn in at the Freeport writ giver and the same for the Q's in Qeynos.  This would stop the constant battles at the writ givers and end the need to constantly return to the writ giver for turn ins.  The kill to token ratio can be adjusted easily if it turns out that people are earning tokens too easily or quickly.  I would think this would reduce the number of multi raid battles that caused the crashes and end the skillless and too quick accumulation of tokens that had been happening.  Raid level pvp would be nice but the servers just cant handle it.  As a result the battles that were happening involved very little skill and almost no strategy.  It was just lag out and aoe and wait to hear the kills "ding" off.  Profitable from a token sense but not fun and certainly not what the designers intended or true pvpers would want. </p><p>Another solution would be to do away with the writ givers and tokens altogether.  Simply have the pvp merchants offer a quest to kill a certain (large) number of hostiles (exile or opposing faction) with the reward being a choice of certain, class appropriate pvp pieces.  More kills for the better pieces (like chest and legs), less for the lesser items. </p><p>Of course an upgrade to the servers so that they could handle large scale pvp battles when they do happen would be nice but I doubt we will ever see that. </p>

[Menstor]

<cite>Balbasur wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Brimestar wrote:</cite><blockquote>For the love of all that is warm and fuzzy in this world, go back to body drops.</blockquote><span style="color: #ff0099;"><span style="font-size: xx-large;">QFT (QUOTED FOR TRUTH)</span></span></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: xx-large;">QFP (QOUTED FOR PINK)</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;">Seriously though, I've never been for changing from body drops.  PvP writs are fine and all... and boosting your faction with the city PvP factions is great (cause, lets be honest... doing it with just PvP would take... well... its takes forever), but body dropped tokens is, by far, the best way to do the tokens.  Hell, I can't remember the last time I received one on any of my charcters... and I have a toon dedicated to nothing but solo pvp that I play all the time.  Hell, I've even completed PvP writs with him and STILL haven't gotten any tokens.  I'm sure SOE had good intentions at heart when they listened to the whiners and criers, but seriously... tears don't mean the system's broken.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;">BRING BACK BODY DROPS!!!</span></p>

[stormBringerJim]

<p>i agree with everyone mostly who posted an idea, the cool down system is stupid.</p><p>people are  100% correct thee town with a writ giver will be packed it will be the same as  b4 ppl wont leave town and this time theyll just have good reason not to...</p><p>i dont understand the few days the writs were out was great i nver seen so much pvp out it was great and alot of ppl agree...</p><p>why not fix whats broken the writ system isnt, the servers are they can't handle the load of player so why not make em able to?</p>

[Buttcliffe]

SOE, here's an idea.... LISTEN TO YOUR PLAYERS.  Or... you could continually come out with poorly designed and implemented ideas that drive customers away (great strategy).

[Buttcliffe]

And by the way, the writ system wasn't broken.  The 4 year old Dell servers that SOE tries to support this resource-hog of a game with.  Replace your [Removed for Content] servers dickheads.

[Radigazt]

<p>so we're supposed to kill 5 people then wait 20 mins .... and that's somehow supposed to be an incentive for group pvp?  What are the Devs thinking?  No scouts are going to sit around for 20 mins when they can complete a writ solo in 5 mins.  It just undoes all the good they had by having writs.  </p><p>IMHO, they should put writ givers in immunity areas, change the writs to 20 kills (and 4 times as many tokens) and 2 classes.  </p><p>This cool down thing just makes it almost impossible to keep a PvP group together, so it'll go back to Scouts soloing and everyone else being victims.  Personally, I hope this "fix" never sees the light of day.  They've got to go back to the drawing board because the community gave a lot of good suggestions that they left there.  </p>

[BrainCandy]

<cite>Kemt@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc99;">Hahahaha.Absolute abject failure.The SIMPLEST FIX is to just let the PVP merchants be FACTION merchants and consume faction like god merchants. Tokens are the most unnecessary complication ever.They take up pack space. They're random. They're a terrible idea.But this idea? This is even worse.PEOPLE WILL SIT IN IMMUNITY NOW UNTIL THEIR WRITS COOL DOWN.Both evac points will be clusters of STUPIDITY, and then a group will go out, get their one writ, evac and be AFK for 20 minutes. Heck evac even cools down before the writs.This will only DISCOURAGE PVP. If PVP was crashing servers and hogging resources then PROVIDE INSTANCED PVP where people can complete objectives, be isolated from the world, and earn their rewards.</span></p></blockquote><p>Yeah along the lines of you kill someone, you earn a certain amount of kill points.. When you earn enough you go to a faction merchant and spend them just like plat.  And if you are in a group the points are divided amongst your group just like when you kill a mob and it drops coin.  If you kill the mob solo you get all the coin, grouped it's divided.   It pretty friggen simple..</p><p>-BC</p>

[Amphibia]

It might be possible that the 20min cool down starts when you get the writ, and not after turning it in? In that case it wouldn't be so bad, because most people would spend more than 20 minutes completing it anyways. I think you would hardly notice any difference if you are in a group or solo, so it would only be a factor if you're doing raid PvP at the Kylong docks tbh. But if the timer starts ticking <i>after</i> you turn the writ in, then it would indeed not be such a great idea....

[Butcher]

<p>I totally agree with Amphibia (see previous post).  If the timer runs from when you pick the writ up and you cant turn in for 20 mins, or cant pick up another writ for 20 mins that would probably be acceptable.  If it starts at turn in, and does not allow you to get another writ to start working on for 20 mins that would be totally unacceptable.  People would have nothing to do and would log or evac for immunity and sit for 20 mins.  Groups would break up when some people have writs to complete and others have nothng to do.  That would not work.</p>

[Amphibia]

Ok, I logged onto test to check it out. It would appear as the timer starts ticking right after you get the writ, because I got a writ, deleted it - and when I tried to get a new one, she asked me to come back later. I have no idea what happens after you complete a writ, as I wasn't able to test that. But I would assume you can get a new one right away, unless it took you less than 20 minutes to complete the previous one.

[Enoe]

1. We pvp for tokens - we need this rewards!!! since raiding RoK zones are getting harder and harder to do with every patch.2. When  PvP you will encounter many situations - you will kill 1 grp - finish writ- and second after u give it back another grp might engage you.  In this case any kind of cool down will be unfair.3. PvP raids are plague - especially on Naggy as i heard - 300 tokens a day for lagg-ganking next to writ-giver is not pvp. It's just a tokens factory. I agree something needs to be done to stop it. Extend recent list? Remove writ-givers from zones? These are a lot better ideas then one guys from Sony are testing.4. Bloody Chest drop was unfair to all but scouts so stop crying - writs are move in good direction!!!5. I still wonder why Sony added +faction to Royal Antonica Guard to t8 writs? For t8 this faction is useless and most of us had it on 50k anyway on t7.So just maybe try to think how to extend and use this faction on t8?in the end:<span style="font-size: medium;"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">NO for writ cool down - worst idea possible!!!</span></b></span>

[-Arctura-]

(( there was a time once when Nagafen players were boasting about having the most people, and telling everyone to 'come join nagafen where its actually fun'...After all that hard work to convince people to join your server, what did it amount to? insane 24/7 lag-raid-zerg-grief-ganks..... exiles out of control with insane raid gear and mythicals, server crashing due to overpopulation and people going nuts threatening to quit unless it can be fixed? heh...  I will agree though it DOES sound like 'hardcore' pvp <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[ulleulle]

I would say 10 min seems more in line with the current volume of pvp fights at rok zones pre srv crashes.It was not uncommon to complete a writ under normally playing conditions in 10 min +-5.By uncommon i mean maybe 1-3 writs during an avg day of pvp.And by normal i mean solo or grouped.And besides at 10 min you can still not do anyway near the same token farming as before the writ givers where removed.Oh and the timer better start from when you get the quest.Other then that and we are stuck at playing evercamp all over again..But more info on when timers start would be higly appreciated.Cheers

[Raznor2]

<p>Well, if what Amphibia said is right and it starts from the moment you pick up the writ, that wouldn't be bad, maybe if you get the occasional quick kill you may end up waiting but more often you'd get those kills in 20 min or more.  But if it's starting from the completion of the writ, that's bad, you'll have people parking it for 20 min each time they get one done.  You want to encourage people to go out and pvp not take away alot of the incentive for a third of an hour at a time.</p><p>~Raithan</p>

[Kram337]

Well I play on venekor so there isn't a lot of writ camping that I can tell. I think 20 minutes is excessive. But I think writs in general is a bad idea. Having to run back to the docks to talk to an NPC every 5 kills totally takes away from the emersiveness of pvp.  Now if I'm between writs I'll probably avoid pvp. I wouldn't want someone on my recent list to not count against my next writ because I killed them between writs.I am VERY fond of the "kill 400" and get an item.

[KniteShayd]

<p>WoW, PvP just keeps getting worse and worse.</p><p>I've said it before, and I'll say it yet once more. SOE, listen to your player base. </p><p>I'm not fooled by the tactic of <i>lets do a half @$$ed job and then we fix it later and say, "Hey, look! New feature! Improved [insert game mechanic that should have been fixed/implemented long ago]!"</i></p><p>I could slap some people for their insolence! In the time it took to make the majority of the player base happy, you coulda fixed the issue 20 times!</p><p>Just take a deep breath devs, and do it. save us and yourselves all the mudslinging, crying, whining, criticism, name calling, and what ever else may come and just fix the faction thing so we can get the gear.</p><p>You all have done surveys in the past, why not do one now? All accounts that have a PvP toon can participate. That way we can all have a say and majority rules.  End of all the flame threads.</p><p>If the majority Want token drops, put em back. </p>

[Faenril]

I'm in line with most of the posts here. Like Amphibia I guess the cooldown will start as soon as you pick the writ, not when you turn in (otherwise it's really killing PVP I agree). though there are several problems with this approach: - PVP is not regularly active, especially on low pop servers. If I get a good group and ennemy groups are out sometimes I can make 4/5 writs in half an hour. But if pvp is low it can take 1 hour without completing a single writ. Cooldown concept kills the possibility to make many writs in a row when pvp is active. - Honnestly, as a solo efficient class, this decreases the incentive to pvp in a group. On good days I can easily get the 5 kills in 20 minutes solo, so what's the point in grouping now ? I mean grouping is token wise efficient currently because I can finish a writ in 2 minutes if I get a group vs group fight. Now if I have to wait 18 minutes to do it again it's not worth it... If they really want to put the cooldown then they should make it much shorter, say 5-10 minutes. But I still believe the recent list would have been a better and natural "cooldown" for the writs. Well, thb I'm disappointed that many suggestions and potential good idea have been ignored, once again. After all the changes we have gone through over the last months, I honnestly do not expect much from pvp in this game any longer.

[Rattfa]

Worst change ever. Even worse than having subclasses in the writ. Epic fail.

[BWLeeEllison]

<p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">A 20 minute cool down timer as a solution? <blink></span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Okay so we are going to be guaranteed at least 20 minutes between server crashes? [Removed for Content]  Just take raids out of the equation.  Raids should not be allowed to complete writs that were intended for solo and group use, just as a Raid force CANNOT earn Achievement Point experience for killing a Heroic Named.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;color: #0099ff;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Do not even cater to raid sized PvP forces, because that is what is causing all the difficulty in the first place.</span></b></p>

[Armironhead]

<cite>Swisha@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is the solution <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=410803" target="_blank">!!!!!!!!!!</a></p><p>I 100% disagree with this!</p><p>Discuss</p></blockquote><p>God this suxs! So now because soe's servers are run by hamsters --- i'm not suppose to pvp for 20 mins after I complete my writ?  Pls -- this is the pvp server.  PVP is its only reason to exist.  Why not just call this the "no pvp for you" fix.</p><p>It would be better just to scratch out the writs and go back to body drps.</p>

[Intercede]

<p>Honestly i am having a hard time seeing what the problem with a cool down timer with the writ system is, Assuming it would start from the time you obtain a writ 20 minutes is nothing. Think about how long it would take you to complete a class specific writ? maybe an hour or more depending on the pvp activity that day.</p><p>I really don't have a clue what you people are wanting from SOE in this regard, Take a look @ the pvp armor then compare it against the relic gear in Danak, It is almost the same (Slightly better in cretin regards). Did you just want SOE to hand you 450 tokens a day for farming each other?</p><p>If you think you would spend less time working your way up to getting Relic gear then you should getting 15 tokens every 60 minutes you are sadly mistaken.</p><p>Personally I think if the only reason you pvp is in order to get the gear that you probably belong on a blue server where gear is everything. Sure you can complain about exiles and what they have for gear etc. But they put in the time to get it all, Yet no one on the faction sides is willing to put in even what 30 hours to get a piece of pvp gear?. You are not meant to hammer out one piece of gear per day seriously now stop wishing they would put token drops back onto bodies because it is a one in a million shot they would go back and reverse all the development time and loose all the money they have invested in the writ system (Which most of you were asking for)</p><p>If you hate the pvp system that much leave. Go play AoC or warhammer online, The pvp is not even comparable it is all about button mashing in those games.</p><p>This is not meant to be a flame or to bash anyone but after reading thread after thread of people crying about the writ system (in some cases the same people who pushed for it) Just grow up and play the game to have fun, and pvp for the purpose of beating the [Removed for Content] out of an opposing player and stop looking at what you get out of it.</p>

[Harbringer Doom]

<cite>Fizantalus@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magic8Ball wrote:</cite><blockquote>How does a cool down theoretically stop hundreds of people from camping  the writ giver? </blockquote>I don't know that it does...what it does stop is the farming of tokens, which it looks like SOE did not intend.  But no one is gonna camp the writ giver, people are going to go look for the updates, and then instead of evacing and waiting 15 minutes for evac to be up, they'll wait 20.</blockquote>We get it.  EVERYONE but you evacs/sits in immunity...  Everyone is terrified of Den of Madness....Srsly, you can stop typing it every time.

[carlSako]

Two solutions to this: restore it to the way it was and make tokens be body drops once again, or take raids out of the equation. To me this seems simple... and honestly all that this is doing is frustrating people and driving them from the game. People that have been playing for an awfully long time. This is ridiculous, do they not listen? Can they not hear the outcry from the people that have been playing this game for so long? Do they not realize that no matter what they do people will always find a way to exploit the situation in some manner? People suck, just ask anyone!The solution is not to make the game less fun or even stupid (this 20 min timer is indeed stupid). I really wish I felt like all of our venting was making a difference here, but sadly I feel like it's all wasted effort... ~ Sako

[Nimbrithil]

<cite>BrainCandy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kemt@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc99;">Hahahaha.Absolute abject failure.The SIMPLEST FIX is to just let the PVP merchants be FACTION merchants and consume faction like god merchants. Tokens are the most unnecessary complication ever.They take up pack space. They're random. They're a terrible idea.But this idea? This is even worse.PEOPLE WILL SIT IN IMMUNITY NOW UNTIL THEIR WRITS COOL DOWN.Both evac points will be clusters of STUPIDITY, and then a group will go out, get their one writ, evac and be AFK for 20 minutes. Heck evac even cools down before the writs.This will only DISCOURAGE PVP. If PVP was crashing servers and hogging resources then PROVIDE INSTANCED PVP where people can complete objectives, be isolated from the world, and earn their rewards.</span></p></blockquote><p>Yeah along the lines of you kill someone, you earn a certain amount of kill points.. When you earn enough you go to a faction merchant and spend them just like plat.  And if you are in a group the points are divided amongst your group just like when you kill a mob and it drops coin.  If you kill the mob solo you get all the coin, grouped it's divided.   It pretty friggen simple..</p><p>-BC</p></blockquote>Which leads to all the scout or I win button classes going out single and amassing things fastest. The writ system and group PVP is the only way SOME classes have a shot at thier PVP gear. I know this, I play a Conji.

[yellowbelly08]

<p>Dear SOE, your proposed writ system is flawed. Let me explain:</p><p>A group will get a writ, then go out in search of another grp. Typically they will find it quickly in the KP docks area. They will have their update within 5 minutes. Now comes the problem. They will not NOT fight anymore pvp for 15 mins because it will put said players on the recent list thus not making them eligable for the next writ update. They will thus sit in immunity for 15 mins, its the only possible thing to do...Comprende?? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>So what do you suggest o wise one, you ask..Well simple. Have a 5 MIN writ cooldown AND make the writ givers NOT hailable in combat. Fixed? Yup..... -/tap /tap..you guys listening??..</p><p>Galoro</p>

[Armironhead]

<cite>Intercede wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Honestly i am having a hard time seeing what the problem with a cool down timer with the writ system is, Assuming it would start from the time you obtain a writ 20 minutes is nothing. Think about how long it would take you to complete a class specific writ? maybe an hour or more depending on the pvp activity that day.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0033;">ur assumption appears to be wrong.  The "cool dow" time appears to start from the end of the writ -- either by completion or deletion.  Which means that if you get a bad writ you can't delete it and get another for 20 minutes.  Also, it means that after you complete a writ there is no incentive to pvp for another 20mins, which in turn implies less pvp since there are plenty of folk who will camp, stay immune, etc . . . to wait for the timer to run down.</span></p><p>I really don't have a clue what you people are wanting from SOE in this regard, Take a look @ the pvp armor then compare it against the relic gear in Danak, It is almost the same (Slightly better in cretin regards). Did you just want SOE to hand you 450 tokens a day for farming each other?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Um . . . all i want is not a borked system that stampeeds folk to one style of play vs another, and rewards (incentivizes) pvp play.</span></p><p>If you think you would spend less time working your way up to getting Relic gear then you should getting 15 tokens every 60 minutes you are sadly mistaken.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300;">Raid gear shouldnt be allowed in a pvp system since it takes people out of pvp -- they're in instances doing their raids rather then pvp'ing.  To promote pvp, pvp gear should therefore be much better then raid gear.  That way people will pvp more and raid less.</span></p><p>Personally I think if the only reason you pvp is in order to get the gear that you probably belong on a blue server where gear is everything. Sure you can complain about exiles and what they have for gear etc. But they put in the time to get it all, Yet no one on the faction sides is willing to put in even what 30 hours to get a piece of pvp gear?. You are not meant to hammer out one piece of gear per day seriously now stop wishing they would put token drops back onto bodies because it is a one in a million shot they would go back and reverse all the development time and loose all the money they have invested in the writ system (Which most of you were asking for)</p><p><span style="color: #ff0033;">Please . . . Gear is everything here.  That's why most people raid -- to get better gear to pvp.  Also this is the core argument against exile -- exiles have it easier getting raid gear (allegedly) and are therefore more (and again allegedly) successful at pvp.</span></p><p>If you hate the pvp system that much leave. Go play AoC or warhammer online, The pvp is not even comparable it is all about button mashing in those games.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;">How could you possible trully know?  Those games aren't out yet -- did you beta test them?  AoC at least is advertising itself as much more then button mashing -- something about a "real combat system."  The reason why people are angry here -- is because alot of folk put alot of time into their toons -- sometimes many years worth of effort.  Now SOE is taking a system that was overall pretty good and which in my opion just needed some twiking and is twisting it in such ways as to first deemphasis pvp.</span></p><p>This is not meant to be a flame or to bash anyone but after reading thread after thread of people crying about the writ system (in some cases the same people who pushed for it) Just grow up and play the game to have fun, and pvp for the purpose of beating the [Removed for Content] out of an opposing player and stop looking at what you get out of i</p></blockquote>

[MuliganVanJurai]

<p>This must be a temporary fix... I think everyone understands that the issue was large raids and equal opposing forces fighting, killing, and attempting to spam the writ-giver for turn-in / receive new writ.  I'm assuming they are trying to avoid the turn-in spam and the receive writ spams generated from stacked raids of both factions.</p><p>This obviously isn't a fantastic idea but hopefully this is merely giving them some time.  However, I really think communication is needed.  We have no idea if they are looking at other options or is this really the fix?  I believe they could avoid the disgruntal groups if they would work a little with us.  They don't even have to listen but we could give some hindsight.</p><p>Here's hoping...</p>

[Enoe]

cool down for one more reason is not acceptable on Venekor:- from my expirience system insist on taking a writ with mage in it. On Venekor it is real problem. You can run around as a grp and kill 1 caster ever 2-3 h unless u fight x4 vs x4 raids. This is why writs with mage inside are not popular. Most of us just delete writs until we get fighter/scout, fighter/priest combo. With 20 min cooldown you will have to rethink if is it better to keep mage and hope for luck or just wait in immunity for 20 min and try our lock on next writ draw.so once again:<span style="font-size: large;"><b><span style="color: #cc3300;">NO FOR 20 MIN COOL DOWN ON WRITS!!!</span></b></span>

[Intercede]

<cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Intercede wrote:</cite><blockquote>I really don't have a clue what you people are wanting from SOE in this regard, Take a look @ the pvp armor then compare it against the relic gear in Danak, It is almost the same (Slightly better in cretin regards). Did you just want SOE to hand you 450 tokens a day for farming each other? <p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Um . . . all i want is not a borked system that stampeeds folk to one style of play vs another, and rewards (incentivizes) pvp play.</span></p><p>If you think you would spend less time working your way up to getting Relic gear then you should getting 15 tokens every 60 minutes you are sadly mistaken.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300;">Raid gear shouldnt be allowed in a pvp system since it takes people out of pvp -- they're in instances doing their raids rather then pvp'ing.  To promote pvp, pvp gear should therefore be much better then raid gear.  That way people will pvp more and raid less.</span></p><p>If you hate the pvp system that much leave. Go play AoC or warhammer online, The pvp is not even comparable it is all about button mashing in those games.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;">How could you possible trully know?  Those games aren't out yet -- did you beta test them?  AoC at least is advertising itself as much more then button mashing -- something about a "real combat system."  The reason why people are angry here -- is because alot of folk put alot of time into their toons -- sometimes many years worth of effort.  Now SOE is taking a system that was overall pretty good and which in my opion just needed some twiking and is twisting it in such ways as to first deemphasis pvp.</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><cite><p><cite>Armironhead-</cite></p><p><cite>Not sure where to start, I agree if the cool down timer is 20 min from the time you hand it in then yes it will suck, Howver personally i pvp for fun. because i want a challenge.</cite></p><p><cite>In regards to your comment about raid gear not being allowed in pvp. I totally disagree with that fact. People who raid put alot of time into it and effort so they should be allowed to use raid gear in pvp, I am going to go out on a limb and assume the reason there is pvp to start with is because SOE knows that it is much harder for factions to raid the high lvl content. (if even possible @ this point) so we get stuck with pvp armor which is nearly equal to relic gear which is supposed to be some of the best in the game.</cite></p><p><cite></cite></p><p><cite>As for warhammer online and AoC yes I currently have beta accounts to both of the games. Without breaking the NDA i can tell you that the "Revolutionary Combat" system in AoC is nothing even close to what it appears to be on paper. It ends up just being annoying</cite></p><p><cite>Warhammer online on the other hand is a button mashing game all the way, You can consider it to be "Easy Mode" version of WoW. With better grahpics (way way better) </cite></p><p><cite></cite></p><p><cite></cite></p></cite>

[Shadow_Viper]

<cite>Swisha@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is the solution <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=410803" target="_blank">!!!!!!!!!!</a></p><p>I 100% disagree with this!</p><p>Discuss</p></blockquote><p>I do as well, it's just SOE listening to the complainers. Some people don't like raid PVP, so instead of just being mature and taking the simple steps to avoid it(like most people who dislike it do, me included), they run to the forums and start calling for nerfs.</p><p>Best thing we can do is just make our voices heard and request that SOE stop listening to the needless complaints.</p>

[Owa]

<cite>Intercede wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Personally I think if the only reason you pvp is in order to get the gear that you probably belong on a blue server where gear is everything. Sure you can complain about exiles and what they have for gear etc. But they put in the time to get it all, Yet no one on the faction sides is willing to put in even what 30 hours to get a piece of pvp gear?. </p></blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;font-family: times new roman,times;">No offense but you're out of your mind if you think that gear matters only on a blue server.  It matters <i>more</i> on a PvP server because not only do we have all the same mobs to kill (and for most of us that means killing the same mobs with restricted classes) but we also have to survive against each other.Outside of raiding, gear doesn't matter at all in PvE. I can tank any instance in the game and I'm in all quested gear with no PvP items and no masters. Plus I'm a Brawler. <i>Plus</i> I'm not even that good.But when I come up against a player with masters or fabled raid gear or PvP gear I'm almost definitely going to lose -  unless my opponent is spectacularly bad or makes a stupid mistake. The only way to survive in PvP (numbers being equal) is gear. And for people like me who work every night, raiding is not an option (plus it's [Removed for Content] dull as dishwater tbh) and PvP tokens are the only way to get gear. Frankly I'd prefer it if they did away with <i>all</i> PvP items and made raid gear not equipable in PvP. <i>Then</i> we'd see who's good and who's just gear-good. But that will never happen and so, if it's alright with you, I'm going to try and level the playing field as much as possible by trying to get some PvP gear - the quicker the better.</span>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Owain wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Intercede wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Personally I think if the only reason you pvp is in order to get the gear that you probably belong on a blue server where gear is everything. Sure you can complain about exiles and what they have for gear etc. But they put in the time to get it all, Yet no one on the faction sides is willing to put in even what 30 hours to get a piece of pvp gear?. </p></blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;font-family: times new roman,times;">No offense but you're out of your mind if you think that gear matters only on a blue server.  It matters <i>more</i> on a PvP server because not only do we have all the same mobs to kill (and for most of us that means killing the same mobs with restricted classes) but we also have to survive against each other.Outside of raiding, gear doesn't matter at all in PvE. I can tank any instance in the game and I'm in all quested gear with no PvP items and no masters. Plus I'm a Brawler. <i>Plus</i> I'm not even that good.But when I come up against a player with masters or fabled raid gear or PvP gear I'm almost definitely going to lose -  unless my opponent is spectacularly bad or makes a stupid mistake. The only way to survive in PvP (numbers being equal) is gear. And for people like me who work every night, raiding is not an option (plus it's [I cannot control my vocabulary] dull as dishwater tbh) and PvP tokens are the only way to get gear. Frankly I'd prefer it if they did away with <i>all</i> PvP items and made raid gear not equipable in PvP. <i>Then</i> we'd see who's good and who's just gear-good. But that will never happen and so, if it's alright with you, I'm going to try and level the playing field as much as possible by trying to get some PvP gear - the quicker the better.</span></blockquote>I'd prefer if they completely separated pvp and pve gear.PvP gear is attained through pvp, and only usable in pvp. PvE gear is gottenby killing pixel monsters all day, and only usable in pve.Make them equipped in two completely different tabs in the inventory window, much like how the two existing tabs are.That way, they can make how uber and OP PvE gear they want.Doesnt matter. Since it cant touch pvp balance in any way.And as far as pvp gear, its easily balanced in pvp, with nothing else than pvp in mind.get pieces of gear by doing pvp quests. (Kill so and so class that many times, participate in a raid on the enemy city and so on)Also, either give TSers more recepies for basic pvp gear, or just let people use handcrafted/mastercrafted for pvp gear. (Its a fairly well balanced gear anyway)

[Csky]

<p>quote</p><p>I'd prefer if they completely separated pvp and pve gear.PvP gear is attained through pvp, and only usable in pvp. PvE gear is gottenby killing pixel monsters all day, and only usable in pve.Make them equipped in two completely different tabs in the inventory window, much like how the two existing tabs are.That way, they can make how uber and OP PvE gear they want.Doesnt matter. Since it cant touch pvp balance in any way.And as far as pvp gear, its easily balanced in pvp, with nothing else than pvp in mind.get pieces of gear by doing pvp quests. (Kill so and so class that many times, participate in a raid on the enemy city and so on)Also, either give TSers more recepies for basic pvp gear, or just let people use handcrafted/mastercrafted for pvp gear. (Its a fairly well balanced gear anyway)</p><p> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</p><p>then why not have PVP bonuses on PVP gear and make it best for PVP and PVE bonuses on PVE gear making it best for PVE?</p><p>you know that little box we click that lessens damage on PVE gear for PVP on examination? do the opposite with PVP gear</p><p>they could be usable for either situation but pvp gear would be better for pvp</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Csky wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>quote</p><p>I'd prefer if they completely separated pvp and pve gear.PvP gear is attained through pvp, and only usable in pvp. PvE gear is gottenby killing pixel monsters all day, and only usable in pve.Make them equipped in two completely different tabs in the inventory window, much like how the two existing tabs are.That way, they can make how uber and OP PvE gear they want.Doesnt matter. Since it cant touch pvp balance in any way.And as far as pvp gear, its easily balanced in pvp, with nothing else than pvp in mind.get pieces of gear by doing pvp quests. (Kill so and so class that many times, participate in a raid on the enemy city and so on)Also, either give TSers more recepies for basic pvp gear, or just let people use handcrafted/mastercrafted for pvp gear. (Its a fairly well balanced gear anyway)</p><p> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</p><p>then why not have PVP bonuses on PVP gear and make it best for PVP and PVE bonuses on PVE gear making it best for PVE?</p><p>you know that little box we click that lessens damage on PVE gear for PVP on examination? do the opposite with PVP gear</p><p>they could be usable for either situation but pvp gear would be better for pvp</p></blockquote>Well,the devs of this game never could get itemisation right so giving them less things to think about should reduce the amount of broken items. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Gorgamorph]

<cite>Bump for the best solution I've read. The 20 minute cool down is a terrible idea. It lacks creativity and fails to demonstrate that SoE has taken this problem seriously. Instead, we've gotten a band aid solution to a gapping wound. Listen to Butcher, he's done half the work for you.Butcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I previously posted this on another thread.  I apologize if I am being redundant.  I prefer to use these forums to offer solutions, rather than to just complain.  I realize that the devs will probably never read this and will probably just ignore it if they do but I am ever hopeful.</p><p>My suggestions for fixing faction pvp on Nagafen:</p><p>Put the writ givers only in the faction cities and increase the number of kills required (opposing faction or exile) and increase the number of tokens rewarded.  Only allow Freeps to turn in at the Freeport writ giver and the same for the Q's in Qeynos.  This would stop the constant battles at the writ givers and end the need to constantly return to the writ giver for turn ins.  The kill to token ratio can be adjusted easily if it turns out that people are earning tokens too easily or quickly.  I would think this would reduce the number of multi raid battles that caused the crashes and end the skillless and too quick accumulation of tokens that had been happening.  Raid level pvp would be nice but the servers just cant handle it.  As a result the battles that were happening involved very little skill and almost no strategy.  It was just lag out and aoe and wait to hear the kills "ding" off.  Profitable from a token sense but not fun and certainly not what the designers intended or true pvpers would want. </p><p>Another solution would be to do away with the writ givers and tokens altogether.  Simply have the pvp merchants offer a quest to kill a certain (large) number of hostiles (exile or opposing faction) with the reward being a choice of certain, class appropriate pvp pieces.  More kills for the better pieces (like chest and legs), less for the lesser items. </p><p>Of course an upgrade to the servers so that they could handle large scale pvp battles when they do happen would be nice but I doubt we will ever see that. </p></blockquote>

[Bigmik22]

   OMG this is the worst simplest fix they could possibly make... apart from it being wrong alltogether, it is too long, and actually can be very dangerous in the long run - think on this:    If you have to wait for 20 mins to START a new writ, you can't even use those 20 mins to get the updates, you are just gonna evac and go afk or run around half bored half annoyed. (That means less than 15 tokens an hour b tw, considering you have to wait 20, then hunt, th en wait 20 again) Some people will have enough of running around for 20 mins with no updates or anything and will stop going out for pvp. That will once again kill the pvp.    If you really have to make such a long cooldown (do try a differnt fix please, like longer recent, no updates while in a raid etc), make it 20 mins to HAND IN after you handed one in, so people can use those 20 mins to get new updates. If you are not going to do that, you are killing pvp AGAIN.-Please, DON'T.

[Roald]

<p>I actually don't mind this idea</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p>Kill enemies, zone home, kill 15 minutes, head back, kill enemies ... I might finally get back to weaponsmithing in the interim.  Hell, there's even a forge on the docks, I could just tradeskill there.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p>

[Bigmik22]

   Not everyone has tradeskilling to do. After waiting 20 mins groups might disassemble, losing chances to win. People will then abandon pvp for the day, not having chances against full stacked groups. Think long term, take into account more variables. This 20 min cooldown on getting a writ is a bad idea.

[Zexxii]

<cite>Csky wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</p><p>then why not have PVP bonuses on PVP gear and make it best for PVP and PVE bonuses on PVE gear making it best for PVE?</p><p>you know that little box we click that lessens damage on PVE gear for PVP on examination? do the opposite with PVP gear</p><p>they could be usable for either situation but pvp gear would be better for pvp</p></blockquote><p>just make it so ALL raid gear is obtainable via PVP.  ALL of it, even the mythicals, there's no reason to have TWO sets of gear, why they did that in the first place is beyond me,</p><p> also, /agree with the poster, make writs 20 minutes from PICKUP to TURN IN, not TURN IN to PICKUP, we're gonna be standing around for 20 minutes with NO reason to PVP</p>

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Bigmik22 wrote:</cite><blockquote>   Not everyone has tradeskilling to do. After waiting 20 mins groups might disassemble, losing chances to win. People will then abandon pvp for the day, not having chances against full stacked groups. Think long term, take into account more variables. This 20 min cooldown on getting a writ is a bad idea.</blockquote>I was being sarcastic.  And yes, I agree, the cooldown is a bad idea.  Especially if it's for a small-scale writ. 

[Roald]

<p>You won't be waiting for 20 minutes unless you complete the writ in 0 seconds.</p>

[Bloodfa]

My understanding was a 20 minute period from turn in to getting a new one.  If I'm wrong on that ... well, that would be better.  Otherwise, it's looking like about 10 per hour, allowing 10 minutes for actual PvP, from finding to finishing.  Forty hours per piece.  About three weeks for the typical 3-hours-a-night, 5-nights-a-week player, assuming everything goes well for the most part.  But I doubt it'll be that consistent, to be honest.

[Armironhead]

<cite>Intercede wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Intercede wrote:</cite><blockquote>I really don't have a clue what you people are wanting from SOE in this regard, Take a look @ the pvp armor then compare it against the relic gear in Danak, It is almost the same (Slightly better in cretin regards). Did you just want SOE to hand you 450 tokens a day for farming each other? <p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Um . . . all i want is not a borked system that stampeeds folk to one style of play vs another, and rewards (incentivizes) pvp play.</span></p><p>If you think you would spend less time working your way up to getting Relic gear then you should getting 15 tokens every 60 minutes you are sadly mistaken.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300;">Raid gear shouldnt be allowed in a pvp system since it takes people out of pvp -- they're in instances doing their raids rather then pvp'ing.  To promote pvp, pvp gear should therefore be much better then raid gear.  That way people will pvp more and raid less.</span></p><p>If you hate the pvp system that much leave. Go play AoC or warhammer online, The pvp is not even comparable it is all about button mashing in those games.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3333;">How could you possible trully know?  Those games aren't out yet -- did you beta test them?  AoC at least is advertising itself as much more then button mashing -- something about a "real combat system."  The reason why people are angry here -- is because alot of folk put alot of time into their toons -- sometimes many years worth of effort.  Now SOE is taking a system that was overall pretty good and which in my opion just needed some twiking and is twisting it in such ways as to first deemphasis pvp.</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><cite><p><cite>Armironhead-</cite></p><p><cite>Not sure where to start, I agree if the cool down timer is 20 min from the time you hand it in then yes it will suck, Howver personally i pvp for fun. because i want a challenge.</cite></p><p><cite>In regards to your comment about raid gear not being allowed in pvp. I totally disagree with that fact. People who raid put alot of time into it and effort so they should be allowed to use raid gear in pvp, I am going to go out on a limb and assume the reason there is pvp to start with is because SOE knows that it is much harder for factions to raid the high lvl content. (if even possible @ this point) so we get stuck with pvp armor which is nearly equal to relic gear which is supposed to be some of the best in the game.</cite></p><p><cite>As for warhammer online and AoC yes I currently have beta accounts to both of the games. Without breaking the NDA i can tell you that the "Revolutionary Combat" system in AoC is nothing even close to what it appears to be on paper. It ends up just being annoying</cite></p><p><cite>Warhammer online on the other hand is a button mashing game all the way, You can consider it to be "Easy Mode" version of WoW. With better grahpics (way way better) </cite></p><p><cite></cite></p><p><cite></cite></p></cite></blockquote>I didnt mean to suggest that once raid gear is obtained it shouldn't be allowed to be used.  But only that it is a bad idea for a pvp sever to have instance zones where people can go to obtain gear and thereby escape pvp.  To combat people from going after raid gear etc, the pvp gear should be significantly better.  That way people will pvp more and raid for gear less.

[LaoSh]

<p>Here is a funny idea, how about SOE doesnt punish its playerbase by limited rewards in pvp because of their own lame servers who cannot handle a large amount of pvp.   </p><p>Im do done with this game, bring on AoC!!!!!     3 more accounts cancelled for ya SOE COngratz!!</p>