Combat art sequence to maximize hate gain

[Thoral]

In groups and raids, I'm having a little trouble keeping aggro in the first few seconds of the pull.  I'm curious to see what the rest of you use for your first few combat arts to make sure you keep aggro long enough for the enemy to beat on you some.

[Rob626]

<p>In the initial rush, try using your more high damage arts.  Let the autoattack swing through.  Stay well clear of any stuns and dazes- you WANT the mob to hit you.  Sort of.</p><p> It's been said before but it bears repeating: make sure your skills- even your damage skills and not just your taunts- are at least adept iii.  the increase in overall damage is small but noticeable.</p><p>Majo, 78 Guardian of Shadow Guard, Venekor</p>

[Thoral]

I'm using the Nathsar Short Sword which has a delay of 6 seconds.  I know that my autoattack turns on when I hit my first taunt.  If the target is out of range of melee when I taunt and my autoattack starts, do I have to wait 6 seconds for my next swing, or will my first swing automatically wait to happen until the target gets in range?

[Wilin]

<cite>Thoral wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm using the Nathsar Short Sword which has a delay of 6 seconds.  <b>I know that my autoattack turns on when I hit my first taunt</b>.  If the target is out of range of melee when I taunt and my autoattack starts, do I have to wait 6 seconds for my next swing, or will my first swing automatically wait to happen until the target gets in range?</blockquote>Auto attack does not turn on when you taunt. It doesn't turn on until you hit a melee attack.

[Ferunnia]

You can macro your autoattack to turn on when you taunt, but it's not necessarily a good idea. Autoattack delays should only last until the moment you are able to attack the mob, whether that means after a CA or when you're in range of the mob.

[Thoral]

<p>My new hotbar is set up in this order:</p><p>Acceleration Strike (speed up CAs), Single Taunt, Encounter Taunt, Executioners Wrath (increase crit chance), Taunting Strike, 4 highest-damage CA's, Group Taunt (huge cast time), rest of CAs in order of max instant damage, debuffs.</p><p> Comments?</p>

[Vlahkmaak]

<cite>Thoral wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>My new hotbar is set up in this order:</p><p>Acceleration Strike (speed up CAs), Single Taunt, Encounter Taunt, Executioners Wrath (increase crit chance), Taunting Strike, 4 highest-damage CA's, Group Taunt (huge cast time), rest of CAs in order of max instant damage, debuffs.</p><p> Comments?</p></blockquote>Don't burn your encounteer taunt so early - your encounter taunt can be cast throught stun/stifle so it is a must have incase you get ht by one.   Also, before you drop your big CA make sure you use decimate first as it lowers their defensive skills - then use your big CA, unless their is a brig in the grp, use your big hits right after dispatched lands.

[Thoral]

I'll try that with Decimate.  I can save my encounter taunt for when I'm stunned during single-mob pulls, but for encounters, I'll need to use it right away or my warlock wife will pull them off me.  Thanks for the response.

[Roldor]

<p>Generally my cast order is as follows... many people do it differently but this is what works for me.</p><p>Single Mob</p><p>If safe I pull with my bow (usually hitting for around 2k so agro is established) if not safe I body pull.</p><ul><li>Impede (As the mob is running towards me, range 15 metres)</li><li>Guard (As the mob is running towards me, range 15 metres)</li><li>Reinforcement (If it's up and I think I need it, mobs now almost on top of me)</li><li>Decimate (lowers mobs defense so you hit more often)</li><li>Seperate (high parsing dot, get this ticking and burning the mob asap, also debuffs mob so you take less damage)</li><li>Trespass (Slightly lower parsing dot but good to get it ticking asap, also debuffs mob so you take less damage)</li><li>Accelleration Strike (After three successful CAs attack speed is increased)</li><li>Executioner's Wrath (+75% crit chance on next successful attack)</li><li>Mar (Huge damage CA which will crit for about 4k+ when chained with Executioner's wrath)</li><li>At this point I cycle through my CAs from highest parsing CA to lowest then rinse and repeat as CAs come up.</li></ul><p>Multiple Mobs</p><p>If safe I pull with my bow (usually hitting for around 2k so agro is established) if not safe I body pull.</p><ul><li>Impede (As the mobs run towards me and hitting which ever mob is leading the race)</li><li>Guard (As the mobs run towards me but delayed until all mobs are within 15 metres of me)</li><li>Reinforcement (If it's up)</li><li>Slanderous Assault (Mobs should now all be on top of me, group taunt + small damage)</li><li>Siege (Blue AOE)</li><li>Dragoon Spin (AGI line AA, Blue AOE)</li><li>Impede (Self root plus roots all mobs in the encounter and lowers the mobs DPS)</li><li>Decimate (lowers mobs defense so you hit more often)</li><li>Seperate (high parsing dot, get this ticking and burning the mob asap, also debuffs mob so you take less damage)</li><li>Trespass (Slightly lower parsing dot but good to get it ticking asap, also debuffs mob so you take less damage)</li><li>Accelleration Strike (After three successful CAs attack speed is increased)</li><li>Executioner's Wrath (+75% crit chance on next successful attack)</li><li>Mar (Huge damage CA which will crit for about 4k+ when chained with Executioner's wrath)</li><li>at the point I begin tabbing through each mob in the encounter hitting each mob with a taunt or CA.</li></ul><p>- Roldy</p>

[Streocoafod]

I hit Mar(Adept 3), Decimate(Master 1, only because the Adept 3 doesn't seem like a real upgrade to me) and retaliation strike(master 1, for the same reason) those 3 will follow my 2 single target taunts, plus the group taunt..all of which are adept 3s or higher.

[Vlahkmaak]

<cite>Thoral wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'll try that with Decimate.  I can save my encounter taunt for when I'm stunned during single-mob pulls, but for encounters, I'll need to use it right away or my warlock wife will pull them off me.  Thanks for the response.</blockquote>As a guardian, you ahve a greater responsibility to your group and your guild than to keep them alive.  Guardian rule #3 if the DPS is opening up at on set, especially on the pull with an aoe, let them die 1-3x until the get it.  They will learn a valuable lesson: Aggro maint is a team effort.  Watching yur wifes toon die on inc may suck but it will make her a better player for it.  Instead of your encounter taunt try reinforcement and your blue aoes.  With the AA in reinfircement i resets fairly quickly.  In most instance using your encounter taunt right away is not a prob cuase I don't recall any massive stun on inc but on raids it is imperative to ahve that one up and ready.

[Jetblackrogue]

What seems to work for me: (as mob in inc) I toss single taunt, then I use Exe strike and let my auto attack crit (and oftentimes double crit) that beats my CA's most times.  I then go into Acceleration strike followed by my three largest hits.  I then just dps saving my taunts for when I "feel" I may lose aggro.  If I lose aggro I just toss up Reinforcement asap and grab it back.

[Oo]

I think what Vlah was trying to say is you should not have problems keeping agro in the first few seconds of the pull unless your group mates are acting like idiots.  At most, you may have a shaman get agro from a body pull, but that's easy enough to get back.  If they don't know to allow you to establish hate, then tell them.  The challenge for a guard should be maintaining hate when everyone lights into the mob, not establishing it at the beginning. 

[Jimbolya]

<p>For raiding I am suprised noone has stated anything about J/C or ROA.  I typically cycle the 3 fast taunts with decimate with reinforce cast before the mob is inc to ensure huge aggro build up.  Only reason I lose aggro at the start is because of mob being stunned or rooted away from me with a noob standing beside it.</p><p>J1M</p>

[schizolic]

i almost always use bow on pull, just body pull back and when the mob is at a safe distance, hit ranged then single taunt.