Hybrids

[DeBasilisk]

Here's something I've always wondered:We know that elves and humans can have children together. What about other races?I would think that High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves and Half Elves all would have enough in common physically, that is, if they could get over their cultural differences.And Humans were "created," from the Barbarians, and Erudites originated as Humans who wanted to get away from it all and practice their magic...So it seems to me that the three of them should be able to have children together.So, humans and elves....Dark Elves and Barbarians? Wood Elves and Erudites? In any event, I certainly could never imagine a Kerra/Ratonga lovechild. hehe. (edit) scratch that, anyone remember the starcrossed Kerran/Ratongan lovers in CL? *shakes head...Thoughts? Any historical accounts of this nature?

[Ama]

<p>I have wondered a bit about this myself.  There is the halloween tale of the Erudite marrying a Dark Elf and having children.  Question is what would those children be exactly? Would they be half-elves? </p><p>Course there are some questions that shouldn't be asked.  A gnome marrying a troll and having a child or an ogre having a baby with a troll *shivers*.  </p>

[Cusashorn]

I remember a developer once mentioning something along the line that Barbarians and Erudites are just as compatable with elves as Humans are, though examples of this are non-existant in the game. Other races have some compatability with others close to them, but a gnome-ogre or halfling-troll one just isn't possible no matter how you take it.

[Ama]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember a developer once mentioning something along the line that Barbarians and Erudites are just as compatable with elves as Humans are, though examples of this are non-existant in the game. Other races have some compatability with others close to them, but a gnome-ogre or halfling-troll one just isn't possible no matter how you take it.</blockquote>Well I would say inplausible, but not not impossible since we have the sarnak race. 

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Amana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember a developer once mentioning something along the line that Barbarians and Erudites are just as compatable with elves as Humans are, though examples of this are non-existant in the game. Other races have some compatability with others close to them, but a gnome-ogre or halfling-troll one just isn't possible no matter how you take it.</blockquote>Well I would say inplausible, but not not impossible since we have the sarnak race.  </blockquote>Magical infusion of iksar and dragon. Nothing sexual about it.

[Moltove]

Didn't they breed a tiger and a lion together back in the day, and it kinda worked well, but rendered the offspring infertile? If something like that is the case, then...*cringe* But I'm sure theres a little more to it than that.For Human races, ie Eru, Barb, Human, and then the Elves it would depend. The genes of the humans are still technically human, though Erus are more magic infused, so offspring would have markings/strange eyes/creepy skin. Barbs would have just a huge frame and the more "primitive" way to thinking, and taking action, along with the common ancestral shamanic roots, as well. So mixing with elves you get a regular half elf, a dark skinned half elf who is magically inclined (more than likely special markings, maybe even eyes...the eyes seem more genetically feasible), and a really beefy half elf.Other races...well, it all depends. I think you'd have to break it down to true genetics. These are, after all,  races and not next door neighbors, and a lot of them are different species. Obviously, a bird and a dog cannot produce offspring; however, two identical cats within the same Genus, with a lot of similar genes, can produce an offspring of their own, to an extent.What we would have to find out where exactly that line in that separates specie from specie, and if magic can have a say in changing the laws of science.And then those short races...Obviously in rl we have dwarfism and the like, but these guys are permanently short, so obviously rendering them their separate race...but are they still close enough for breeding. Personally I think so.Ogre-Troll...that's kinda gross...but since they look entirely different and are made from separate gods (I think) it's safe to say they're a bit far off from each other. Ogre and Human could even be closer, and even more so with Barbarians. I can almost see an evolutionary chain: Ogre to Barbarian to Human to Erudite.Iksar? Sarnak? I'll leave that floating in Kunark.Frogloks? That's just creepy, too..Not to mention, frogs mate differently, too, and iirc, Iksar lay eggs.Fairy Bugs? I forget the lore on them, but aren't they born from some...seed from a tree, or something? and their evil counterparts I'm not sure at all.Kerra and Ratonga... I'm pretty sure my cat never took the rodents out in the field to the local hotel to...conduct a "business meeting"I just think it's all about drawing that species line, and deciding what exactly can mate with what.Of course...the opposite races can love and...conduct business meetings...but to actually be able to produce offspring is a totally different matter, which, I'm sure, will not prove easy to figure out so well. Oh and correct me if I'm wrong on the science stuff, heh. Been a while since my science class.

[Moltove]

I made a quick little chart thing of my own views.--------------<b><span style="color: #cc9900;">Humans</span></b>= Barbarian, Human, <span style="color: #3300ff;">Erudite*</span>, <span style="color: #33ff00;">{Half Elf}</span> <span style="color: #ccff33;">(Gnome, Dwarf, Halfling)</span><b><span style="color: #003300;">Elves</span></b>= High Elf, Wood Elf, Dark Elf <span style="color: #33ff00;">{Half Elf}</span> <b><span style="color: #330033;">Fairy</span></b>= Arisai and Fae<b><span style="color: #ff0000;">Odd</span></b>= Iksar, Froglok, Troll, Ogre, Sarnak, Kerra, Ratonga.--------------<span style="color: #ccff33;">Humans and their (shorter cousins) seem to be perfectly able to breed, I think. The only split in the genetic code would be size I think. But then that brings up...*cringe* a Barbarian and a Halfling. Could it be too far apart? That is why I separated the shorter races from the regular humans</span><span style="color: #3300cc;">Erudites*; As explained in the above post of mine, I consider them very close to Humans, however their genetic material has been, more or less, sugar coated with magic. Depending on lore, this could make or break the connection. Erudite and Human I think is possible, but they might be in the same boat as Barbarians, but with different variables. Also it would make sense to assume that they could mate with Elves because of the magic between them.</span><span style="color: #33ff00;">Humans and Elves can mix in between themselves without a problem. {Half Elves}, however, are a technical genetic mutation rather than their own race, I think. But, what happens if you mix Half Elf with Elf? and with Human? Are the offspring still Half? And if Humans and Elves were able to mate, is that because of genetics, or is that a magical thing? If it's magical, then that can totally change the whole situation, suggesting more breeding freedom.</span><span style="color: #330033;">The Fairies a little harder to figure out. I don't think they can mate outside of this area. If anyone, it would be the (short Human) races and perhaps Elves. But that seems to be stretching it a bit. this also brings up the fact of sex even possible, or the <i>small</i> factors that come into play (like sperm count, and well..the size of the little guys themselves, then having to travel a lot farther to the eggs, giving them even less of a chance). This goes not only for the Fairies, but also any oddly-mixed pairs of parents.</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">--------------------------------------------------</span>And the Odd Races. These guys can't mate with eachother intermixingly, just with the same races. The only races I bring to question abotu this are the Kerra and Ratonga. They seem to be close to part human, but I think a bit too far away for breeding standards. They are superior, intellegent creatures, with human characeristics, yet of a different race.  There's no lore saying that they learned/mated with humans to get the way they are today, and as far as I understand were just always...cat people. I think it's safe to assume breeding Kerra or Sha'Vir with Humans isn't possible. the same goes for Ratonga, except instead of Humans, think more Dwarf and Gnome. But...if they're so close to Humans...could it be possible that it's another Human/Elf combo? and if they were able to mate, what would their offspring be? Too mutated, me thinks, or a less hairy rodent/cat.this goes for the scales, too. But that's ok...most Iksar are too mean nd bitter to even WANT to mate with anyone else but another Iksar, so I think they're out of the experiment all together.Due to the Frogloks and Iksars egg laying thing...I do not think any Human or Elf can not be born under a female of these races. Out of behavior and anatomy, I think this cancels out the Males impregnating anything but their own race, at least as Frogloks go...but, I could be wrong.Ogres and Trolls seem to be two separate races that are just too far apart for me to see anything to really get close enough to mate successfully.<span style="color: #ff0000;">--------------------------------------------------</span>Now...I just thought of something...These are all considered Humanoid creatures (save Fairy and Scales/Frogs), so could this bring them close enough, as I mentioned in the Kerra post? Personally, I don't think so, but I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong, if it was considered about the same space between a Human and Elf.

[Dreyco]

Iksar + Iksar = Iksar.Iksar + Anything Else = Anything else probably being in much pain. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Let's face it.  Iksar lay eggs.  I've seen some pretty strange couples in my roleplay career.  I've even see a scaled elf before.  Quite strange.  But from old dev posts regarding Iksar? They're compatable with nothing else other than... Iksar.

[DeBasilisk]

Here's how I see it:Iksar+Iksar: No other real way about it.Sarnak+Sarnak: Now, I can see an argument here about Iksar+Sarnak being viable, since Sarnak are half Iksar to begin with. However, I don't think it's possible for an Iksar and a PC sarnak to have a child. After all, the PC Sarnak are not the same as those that the Iksar created; they've had their genetics further meddled with by the "Di'Zok," (true) Sarnak. In my opinion, Di'Zok Sarnak and Iksar might (but I doubt it,) be able to produce fertile offspring, but definitely not Iksar+PC Sarnak.Froglock: No questions here. froglok+froglok only. Shoot, PC Frogs aren't even true frogloks, they're Marr-infused Guktans.Kerra: Only Kerra I think.Ratonga: Only with other Ratonga.Ogre+Ogre only.Troll+Troll only.Now, I think it's fair to mix and match any human/elf combo. I suspect that Erudites and Woodelves are just as compatible as humans and high elves. They're all "half elves," if it's one of each, and I say that if it's amongst eachother (Barbarian+Erudite or High Elf+Dark,) they'd just be humans and Elves respectively. They'd just be different Elves/Humans from the character creation standards. And if, say, a half-elf marries an elf, then the child would be quarter/elf, or, to be simpler, mostly elf. After a while the genes matter little.As for the half-pint races, I think it would work. Especially gnomes/dwarves, but I'm willing the guess Halfling/Dwarve/Gnome combos as well. Two of them are even of the same God. So I predict; yes.Small humanoid+big humanoid? Like Dwarve/Elves....My gut says no.~Now, all of this precludes the idea of magic, Who knows what twisted evil is creating a demented slave-race of Troll/Elves out there, waiting to be unleashed upon Norrath! Half-Orcs anyone? (worked in D&D...) Maybe Najena is biding her time, waiting to out-do Mayong's Drachnids with her own new race. Maybe she's taking a page from Innoruuk, who twisted the first elves into dark elves, and is work hard to twist a group of pure Erudites with the elementals she's so good at summoning.An army of Erumentals anyone?

[therodge]

<p>well one day i was looking for eq2 art, and i stumbled upon the most horrific thing i ever seen, if you can look up dark nekogami (artitist name) now i give fair warning you may very well have 1 of two reactions</p><p>1. puke</p><p>2. find you are a slight oddity and later seek councling, and yes i do beileve this is on topic rofl.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>therodge wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>well one day i was looking for eq2 art, and i stumbled upon the most horrific thing i ever seen, if you can look up dark nekogami (artitist name) now i give fair warning you may very well have 1 of two reactions</p><p>1. puke</p><p>2. find you are a slight oddity and later seek councling, and yes i do beileve this is on topic rofl.</p></blockquote><p>****ing Furrys >_<</p><p>Though, I have to admit, the Ratonga Monk and swimming Iksar pictures were pretty dang good. I didn't find anything else related to EQ2 though.</p>

[Ama]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember a developer once mentioning something along the line that Barbarians and Erudites are just as compatable with elves as Humans are, though examples of this are non-existant in the game. Other races have some compatability with others close to them, but a gnome-ogre or halfling-troll one just isn't possible no matter how you take it.</blockquote>Well I would say inplausible, but not not impossible since we have the sarnak race.  </blockquote>Magical infusion of iksar and dragon. Nothing sexual about it.</blockquote><p>Ahh that's the thing Cusashorn because you don't worry about the 1st generation, but the 2nd generation.  The 2nd generation is what counts and as someone said Sarnaks could possibly breed with Iksar because of the genetics.  </p><p>Halflings and Barbarians *shrug* kinda weird, but not totally out there.  Arasai and Fae can breed since they are in the same league.  However if a Fae tried to go to the "human" range it might present a problem.  </p><p>Did Owlchick ever say if 2 faes can have a child? </p>

[Ozymundas]

I was under the impression that all the fae were created by Tunare and they dont reproduce.  They just die and their spirit bud is reborn in a new form.

[Cusashorn]

One can only hope that they do have some form of reproduction. Otherwise the numbers will dwindle down over the years with other creatures and races interfering with the spirit buds.

[Ozymundas]

Well there is a Queen and a Princess, so that would lead one to think that they are mother and daughter.  Unless they decide such titles some other way....

[DocFlareon]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>therodge wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>well one day i was looking for eq2 art, and i stumbled upon the most horrific thing i ever seen, if you can look up dark nekogami (artitist name) now i give fair warning you may very well have 1 of two reactions</p><p>1. puke</p><p>2. find you are a slight oddity and later seek councling, and yes i do beileve this is on topic rofl.</p></blockquote><p>****ing Furrys >_<</p><p>Though, I have to admit, the Ratonga Monk and swimming Iksar pictures were pretty dang good. I didn't find anything else related to EQ2 though.</p></blockquote>I'll have you know that most furries, myself included, are not fairly represented by Nekogami's style.One thing that I do have to say is that there certainly is some original [Removed for Content] to be found in(inspired by) Japan and Korea.Back on subject.  I think the iksar could produce hybrids with Alliz Ew and both sarnak sub-races.  Said hybrids might very well be sterile, of course.

[Illmarr]

<cite>Ozymundas wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was under the impression that all the fae were created by Tunare and they dont reproduce.  They just die and their spirit bud is reborn in a new form.</blockquote><p>That impression is incorrect. Fae/Arasai reproduce biologically in the standard mammalian way. Children are born, and at a point in their young lives they experience a "calling" to a nursery where the spirit buds float around (We see them as the wisps fluttering around the Nursery and Cristanos's area in Neriak) There is a comprehensive Fae/Arasai origins thread compiled by Sapphirius somewhere in this Lore forum, just scroll back a couple of pages to find it.</p><p>Edit: Thread link: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=392114" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=392114</a></p>

[KniteShayd]

<p>I think half-orcs and half-ogres are feasable. As they are in any other fantasy setting.</p><p>I don't think they have been metioned in game yet though.</p><p>Because Elves have a different creator, they are considered half elf when bred with another race.</p><p>We must remember that Barbarians were first, then the Humans appeared, and then the Erudites. Although these are considered different races, they are only just sub-species from the same ancestors.  So that's why there are no half erudites/barbarian/humans when these sub-species interbreed.  The only time it is stated when someone is half barbarian/human/erudite is when one is describing heritage. </p><p>There is precedent of Barbarians and Elves partnering.  Remember goin into the Frostfell Present zone? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>As far as halflings, dwarves, and gnomes are concerned, I find it feasable that they could intermix with eachother too, along with the human-ish races.</p><p>Now why we don't see them running about is most likely because:A. They are too xenophobic or "self-respecting" in the breeding aspect to mate, or even partner, with another raceorB. One races features are more dominant giving them the appearance of only one race</p><p>Intermixing races, we've seen, does not render them infertile.</p><p>Some races are more likely to get it on than others.  Say drunk dwarves, wiley half elves, horny humans and lusty barbarians.</p><p>We know of stories in game where unlikely pairs have been seen; rat and kerra in CL, Human male and Dark Elf female story when luclin exploded, the match ups for Erollissi day.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Bandorn@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>There is precedent of Barbarians and Elves partnering.  Remember goin into the Frostfell Present zone? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>whut?

[Eriol]

Just remember, there's always <a href="http://www.wtfcomics.com/archive.html?323_127" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this interpretation</a> of how Sarnaks came into being.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[KniteShayd]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bandorn@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>There is precedent of Barbarians and Elves partnering.  Remember goin into the Frostfell Present zone? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>whut?</blockquote>In Frostfell present, Grandpa Jack is a barbarian. I forgot the wifes name, but she is a high elf. Their offspring is a half-elf, Bob's wife.

[therodge]

<cite>Ekaunek@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>therodge wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>well one day i was looking for eq2 art, and i stumbled upon the most horrific thing i ever seen, if you can look up dark nekogami (artitist name) now i give fair warning you may very well have 1 of two reactions</p><p>1. puke</p><p>2. find you are a slight oddity and later seek councling, and yes i do beileve this is on topic rofl.</p></blockquote><p>****ing Furrys >_<</p><p>Though, I have to admit, the Ratonga Monk and swimming Iksar pictures were pretty dang good. I didn't find anything else related to EQ2 though.</p></blockquote>I'll have you know that most furries, myself included, are not fairly represented by Nekogami's style.One thing that I do have to say is that there certainly is some original [Removed for Content] to be found in(inspired by) Japan and Korea.Back on subject.  I think the iksar could produce hybrids with Alliz Ew and both sarnak sub-races.  Said hybrids might very well be sterile, of course.</blockquote>a niche i may naever understand, but suppose not my place to judge, anyway i would doubt the alliz Ew mainly do to their physical attributes being so much diffrent then iksar, it would be like a human and a monkey

[Ama]

<cite>Bandorn@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bandorn@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>There is precedent of Barbarians and Elves partnering.  Remember goin into the Frostfell Present zone? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>whut?</blockquote>In Frostfell present, Grandpa Jack is a barbarian. I forgot the wifes name, but she is a high elf. Their offspring is a half-elf, Bob's wife.</blockquote>Yup now that you mention it I do remember that from the "Present" portion of the scrooge event.  Course all this does is reinforce the fact barbarians and humans are related.  Humans are just "evolved/devolved" barbarians so a high elf + barbarian producing half-elfs isn't unheard of. 

[Kursa]

this thread delights me! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[TheKons]

Patches!

[PlagueofAngels]

<p>I would suggest Ogres would be capable of breeding with some of the larger human/elven races, esp barbs. (an old character of mine had dual halasian-ogre heritage).</p><p> Trolls (prolly the same reproductive gear but way to dissimilar), iksar, sarnak, froglok, ratonga, kerra and the fae races wouldn't really be able to join in the hot tub party tho, IMO.</p>

[Zarafein]

if there is no translation bug, half orcs are pretty common(Agtak), but most of them are used as slaves or food.

[Moltove]

<cite>Bandorn wrote something like</cite><cite>:</cite> <blockquote><i>Something something something...</i>Half-Orcs.<b> EWWWWW!!</b><b> </b></blockquote> <cite>PlagueofAngels  wrote something silly about:</cite> <blockquote>Half-Ogres<b>That's gross toooo! </b></blockquote><cite>DeBasilisk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Small humanoid+big humanoid? Like Dwarve/Elves....My gut says no.<b>But my heart says YES!</b></blockquote><cite>------Furrys are silly...</cite>

[Illmarr]

Whenever I think about big/small relations I can't help but think of that scene in Austin Powers 2 where he finds out Queen Antonia (Heather Graham) did Fat Bastish and says how could you... and she has some whiney response...and he says something like No, how could you? The mechanics of it alone...

[KniteShayd]

<cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whenever I think about big/small relations I can't help but think of that scene in Austin Powers 2 where he finds out Queen Antonia (Heather Graham) did Fat Bastish and says how could you... and she has some whiney response...and he says something like No, how could you? The mechanics of it alone...</blockquote><p>/ponders if Brushwhittle did questionable portrait scenes in his early career, or just for fun.</p><p>/shudders at the thought of a halfling/ogre scene</p>

[Caelen]

So far that I know, there is at least one example of a half-race in the game that we can't play as. In Darklight wood, at the Wanderlust Fair you can find a half-dark elf:<img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb205/sdobresk/EQ2_000047.jpg" alt="" border="0" />Now, this particular shade of color isn't available to us players. Trust me, it's been tested over and over, heh. But it's too bad, I think a lot of people would enjoy being able to branch out into other half-races.

[Katook]

<cite>Caelen@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>So far that I know, there is at least one example of a half-race in the game that we can't play as. In Darklight wood, at the Wanderlust Fair you can find a half-dark elf:Now, this particular shade of color isn't available to us players. Trust me, it's been tested over and over, heh. But it's too bad, I think a lot of people would enjoy being able to branch out into other half-races.</blockquote><p>I'd respectfully disagree - you can get pretty dark skinned half-elves in character creation.  Maybe not that exact shade but close enough for role-playing purposes.  In fact, I seem to recall some sort of dialogue I had with an NPC where they asked me whether my parentage was High Elf, Wood Elf, or Dark Elf.  I had a dark-complected half elf so I went with Dark Elf I believe.   As a disclaimer this would have been ages ago so it could be totally off-base.  </p><p> OH YES I just remembered!  The racial mentors that give you the racial quest in the starting zones.  They ask you that or did at one point.  I believe it assumes human (as opposed to Erudite/Barb) but leaves which branch of elf open to interpretation.  So go out and be proud my Half-Dark Elf brethren <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </p>

[KniteShayd]

<p>I also must disagree.</p><p>My alt wizzy Is quite darker than this guy.</p>

[Arianah]

<cite>Bandorn@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I also must disagree.</p><p>My alt wizzy Is quite darker than this guy.</p></blockquote>The problem isn't getting a dark tone, of course you can do that, the problem is getting a blueish hue to your skin tone.

[Xada]

^ Seconded. Half dark elves need ashier, cooler skintone choices.

[KniteShayd]

<cite>Arianah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bandorn@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I also must disagree.</p><p>My alt wizzy Is quite darker than this guy.</p></blockquote>The problem isn't getting a dark tone, of course you can do that, the problem is getting a blueish hue to your skin tone.</blockquote><p>Oooh.  I never really looked at him closely, was to concerned with my safety.  That Zone is hugely Freep populated...</p><p>If you click the 4 corners of character create, on is a rich coppery tone, one has a reddish tone, one has a greyer tone and one has a darker brown tone to the darkest tones that are offered.  Yeah, I would have liked greys blues and purples added to half elf skin tone though.  And colors should be added to the hair colors too, like the fae's, since they want half elves to have that punkish look to em.</p>

[Kitsune286]

Some people need to learn grammar. =)Singular - FurryPlural - Furries (Change the Y to I and add ES)CSI and MTV did wonderful *cough* not *cough* impressions on us.All of my character are interconnected in some way. Though, I often wonder, should a Ratonga and Kerra get into it it, would one be disappointed in size, or be afraid that one may be barbed?Ooh boy, I'm gonna get it for this one.

[KniteShayd]

<cite>Kittsune@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000;">Some people need to learn grammar. =)</span>Singular - FurryPlural - Furries (Change the Y to I and add ES)CSI and MTV did wonderful *cough* not *cough* impressions on us.All of my character<span style="color: #ff0000;">s</span> are interconnected in some way. Though, I often wonder, should a Ratonga and Kerra get into it<span style="color: #ff0000;">,</span> it would one be disappoint<span style="color: #ff0000;">ing</span> in size <span style="color: #ff0000;">(or disappointed in it's), </span>or be afraid that one may be barbed?<span style="color: #ffff00;">Ooh boy, I'm gonna get it for this one.</span></blockquote>Hehe, you did... <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Kitsune286]

Hey now, I had that comma in red. =)

[KniteShayd]

/chuckle

[Meirril]

<p>There is actually a little bit of lore from one of the old quests in EQ1.</p><p>The quest Honeybugger Assassin given by Pazin Punox has the player assassinate Lil Honeybugger telling you it is work for the Thex crown. When you return he then tells you something to the effect of "Foolish young elf. This was no contract from King Naythox. I wanted Lil Honeybugger killed before she gave birth to my child. Only a naive dark elf would set foot in Halfling territory. Here's your great reward, garbage from other guild exploits."</p><p>(parts of the text shamelessly ripped from Allakhazam.com's EQ1 page)</p><p>So apparently back in the beginning days of EQ1 Dark elves and halflings could reproduce. The old joke back in those days was that halflings could apparently produce offspring from any pairing. </p><p>That might not be true but at least this confirms dark elves, and by extention the rest of the elves. If halflings and barbarians (humand and euradites being subraces) mated, the children would probably be short barbarians/humans. Functionally, dwarf and gnome children would probably look like halflings with slight changes to the frame. Or not, halflings tend to be chubby due to all of the good eating. I'm not aware of any evidence that halflings can mate successfully with either barbarians, dwarves, or gnomes.</p><p>Something else to consider, isn't it vaugely possible that some of the racial pairings in the city villages could stem from "compatability"? Not 100% of course, I really can't imagine Froglok and High Elf weddings. </p><p>Its also possible that some of the compatability between races has to do with how the gods were relating when the race was created. While Bristlebane isn't exactly buddy-buddy with the other gods, none hold animosity towards him except inny. Innoruk hasn't spawned a single race that I'm aware of, just corrupting other god's creations.</p><p>Cazic created all of the scally races except for the sarnak who were created from his creation plus Veshan's brood. There is a good chance it is possible to cross breed the races, though by attitude they never willingly would. Too much fear, mistrust, and xenophobia like a good cazic worshiper should feel. </p><p>Technically, I suppose any of the egg laying races might have a chance of fertalizing the eggs of another race. It might require some magical intervention. Half frog races.../shiver</p><p>Brell created...wow...a lot of races. Dwarves, gnomes, gnolls, goblins, bugbear, kobalts, and maybe ratonga. I'm not sure who created Ratonga to be perfectly honest. Its fairly easy to imagine Drarves and gnomes. Bugbear, gnolls and kobalts are easy to imagine as well. Other pairings? Ewww...Oh and I forgot Bunyai.</p><p>Tunare created the Elves (high elf, wood elf). Inny corrupted high elves to make dark elves. Strangely, the share more physical features with wood elves than high elves. Tunare seems to get along well with the Marr twins as their races have joined to create the prolific half-elves. Maybe it has something to do with being Tunare's children. After all, she seems to be the mother of half the EQ1 patheon...and yes I'm exagurating.</p><p>She also created the Fae, but as a new race (and really, really tiny) not much is said about them in Lore. She created brownies too but you don't see anyone thinking about them! (delicious fresh baked brownies, covered in frosting...mmm...)</p><p>The Marr twins are responsable for the Barbarians, who in turned produced the humans and euradites. Not via experiments but instead as an evolved response to increasing amounts of civilization apparently. Frogloks were origionally the creation of Mithanial, corrupted by Inny again, and some "liberated" by Marr later and made into a player race who in turn "liberated" the Troll home city and move the trolls into Neriak's forign quarter permantently. Poor trolls!</p><p>Rallos created the orcs, ogres, and giants as an army to serve him on Norrath. As such they all love fighting. One can imagine orcs and ogres being compatable. Giants...the technical difficulties boggle the mind. Also, the giants are generally more interested in making a meal out of other races than anything else. The same could be said of ogres, though they get along the best with other races. Of the other races, barbarians would be the most likely as they share a similar build and the barbarians would probably be able to survive proving they were as tough as ogres, day after day. There is no evidence to support this that I am aware of.</p><p>I suppose that leaves Trolls and Keran. Unfortunately I don't know enough about the lore of either to have any insight at all.</p><p>Oh, Veshan. Apparently her brood can perty much do anything they want to do. Half dragon? Sure, why not?</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its also possible that some of the compatability between races has to do with how the gods were relating when the race was created. While Bristlebane isn't exactly buddy-buddy with the other gods, none hold animosity towards him except inny. Innoruk hasn't spawned a single race that I'm aware of, just corrupting other god's creations. <p>The Marr twins are responsable for the Barbarians, who in turned produced the humans and euradites. Not via experiments but instead as an evolved response to increasing amounts of civilization apparently. Frogloks were origionally the creation of Mithanial, corrupted by Inny again, and some "liberated" by Marr later and made into a player race who in turn "liberated" the Troll home city and move the trolls into Neriak's forign quarter permantently. Poor trolls!</p><p>I suppose that leaves Trolls and Keran. Unfortunately I don't know enough about the lore of either to have any insight at all.</p></blockquote><p>Innoruuk created the Luggalds. Part of the Legacy of Ykesha expansion pack has him come directly down from the Plane of Hate in order to protect the Luggald Broodmother from getting killed. He stated that he was extremely disappointed with his chosen race, the Dark Elves, because they put aside thier hatred of everyone else just enough to work with the other races. Even going so far as to invade his own realm and destroy his physical presence. He created the Luggalds from scratch and declaired them his new chosen race.</p><p>The Frogloks were indeed created by Mithanial Marr. Half of his spirit was imparted into the local frogs that lived in Innothule Swamp, back when he was captured, tortured, and eventually killed by Cazic and Terris Thule. The other half of his spirit went inside Erollisi, where if I remember right, she eventually gave birth to him... (yeah... [Removed for Content] in the pantheon...) Innoruuk only managed to corrupt some of them. He's the reason for the undead frogloks in lower Guk, but the great troll leader Ykesha also had a hand in that accomplishment.</p><p>Cazic Thule created the Trolls, though there's very little detail about it that didn't survive Everquest's early alpha and beta stages before the game went live.</p><p>Kerrens: ....... Really do not know. We know thier cultures like to worship spiritual dieties more than the actual gods themselves. The theory that they're the result of evolution could be true, but I do not believe it's ever been revealed just who precisely created them.</p><p>Also: For what it's worth, the Sarnak acknowledge Cazic as thier main diety, even though they know they were created as military experiments from the Di'Zok sarnak, who in turn know they were created by the iksar.</p>

[Arianah]

Here's something I found on the (possibly) Kerran deity: Talysra Upon a lush isolated savannah island within the Plane of Tranquility can be found this feline deity. She is said to be involved in the creation of all felines and oversees the valorous prides of her plane. Very few cat races know of her existence outside of the Plane of Tranquility. Her peaceful and humble ways mask the ferocity that she can exact when in defense of harmony.

[Apocroph]

<cite>Arianah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's something I found on the (possibly) Kerran deity: Talysra Upon a lush isolated savannah island within the Plane of Tranquility can be found this feline deity. She is said to be involved in the creation of all felines and oversees the valorous prides of her plane. Very few cat races know of her existence outside of the Plane of Tranquility. Her peaceful and humble ways mask the ferocity that she can exact when in defense of harmony.</blockquote>Oooooooh, where <i><b>did</b></i> you find that?

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Arianah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's something I found on the (possibly) Kerran deity:TalysraUpon a lush isolated savannah island within the Plane of Tranquility can be found this feline deity. She is said to be involved in the creation of all felines and oversees the valorous prides of her plane. Very few cat races know of her existence outside of the Plane of Tranquility. Her peaceful and humble ways mask the ferocity that she can exact when in defense of harmony.</blockquote>Yeah, where did you find that? I'd like to see a source on that. All we really know about Talysra is that she was a diety created by a sect of Kerran Society called the Laahr, who moved to Erud's Crossing because the other Kerran's didn't approve of this worship. Whether or not she's an actual diety has yet to be proven.

[PsiaMeese]

Yes. But did Laahr Pride create Talysra or <i>could</i> it have been the other way around?  <i>purr...</i>The details of Talysra are not in the game that I have found.  Though I can always wish that one day it is.  Because it is intriguing to consider. Until then, the Kerra roleplayers will continue to speculate on our own.

[Gukkor2]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its also possible that some of the compatability between races has to do with how the gods were relating when the race was created. While Bristlebane isn't exactly buddy-buddy with the other gods, none hold animosity towards him except inny. Innoruk hasn't spawned a single race that I'm aware of, just corrupting other god's creations. <p>The Marr twins are responsable for the Barbarians, who in turned produced the humans and euradites. Not via experiments but instead as an evolved response to increasing amounts of civilization apparently. Frogloks were origionally the creation of Mithanial, corrupted by Inny again, and some "liberated" by Marr later and made into a player race who in turn "liberated" the Troll home city and move the trolls into Neriak's forign quarter permantently. Poor trolls!</p><p>I suppose that leaves Trolls and Keran. Unfortunately I don't know enough about the lore of either to have any insight at all.</p></blockquote><p>Innoruuk created the Luggalds. Part of the Legacy of Ykesha expansion pack has him come directly down from the Plane of Hate in order to protect the Luggald Broodmother from getting killed. He stated that he was extremely disappointed with his chosen race, the Dark Elves, because they put aside thier hatred of everyone else just enough to work with the other races. Even going so far as to invade his own realm and destroy his physical presence. He created the Luggalds from scratch and declaired them his new chosen race.</p><p>The Frogloks were indeed created by Mithanial Marr. Half of his spirit was imparted into the local frogs that lived in Innothule Swamp, back when he was captured, tortured, and eventually killed by Cazic and Terris Thule. The other half of his spirit went inside Erollisi, where if I remember right, she eventually gave birth to him... (yeah... [Removed for Content] in the pantheon...) Innoruuk only managed to corrupt some of them. He's the reason for the undead frogloks in lower Guk, but the great troll leader Ykesha also had a hand in that accomplishment.</p><p>Cazic Thule created the Trolls, though there's very little detail about it that didn't survive Everquest's early alpha and beta stages before the game went live.</p><p>Kerrens: ....... Really do not know. We know thier cultures like to worship spiritual dieties more than the actual gods themselves. The theory that they're the result of evolution could be true, but I do not believe it's ever been revealed just who precisely created them.</p><p>Also: For what it's worth, the Sarnak acknowledge Cazic as thier main diety, even though they know they were created as military experiments from the Di'Zok sarnak, who in turn know they were created by the iksar.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, Mithaniel Marr never died during his imprisonment.  It says he fell into a "deep sleep," but since he had dreams during this sleep, I doubt that's a metaphor for death.  In any case, during these dreams, Terris Thule tricked him into giving her his Gift of Life (this, too, seems very suggestive to me...), but Morell Thule stole it from her and split it in two.  He scattered one half over Innothule, which is how the frogloks were born, and he used the other half to impregnate Erollisi Marr, who soon gave birth to the first barbarians.  Sometime later, the frogloks began trying to rescue Mithaniel, but couldn't break through Cazic-Thule's defenses alone.  Eventually, though, an army of barbarians arrived from the north and teamed up with the frogloks to defeat Thule's forces and rescue their father, who, inspired by their courage, took on valor as his domain.</p><p>Arianah: Fascinating.  I'm inclined to accept its validity, but I, too, would like to know the source of that before I officially add her to my deity catalogue.</p>

[Arianah]

Let me see if I can find the post, but I think I found it somewhere on here, in the History and Lore forum...When I was compiling my list of deities for the EQ2 part of my site I found some mention of lesser or not as well known deities in this forum, so I'm pretty sure it was <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=187460" target="_blank">this</a> post... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />

[Cusashorn]

<p>Ahh. Nocturnal said it was from a private message from Vhalen.</p><p> I'm surprised he didn't ask Noc to keep it a secret. When I asked him for a bit of lore a long time ago, he asked me to keep his info from private tells a secret, which I have and will.</p>

[Rezikai]

meh back to color hues.....  yes. it'd be awesome if Half elves could get a "blueish" hue to choose from when in the character creation area. Any chance on the red names getting that put in?

[shadowscale]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ahh. Nocturnal said it was from a private message from Vhalen.</p><p> I'm surprised he didn't ask Noc to keep it a secret. When I asked him for a bit of lore a long time ago, he asked me to keep his info from private tells a secret, which I have and will.</p></blockquote>how did you convence vhalen to tell you stuff without being vague? i must know that secret atleast.

[Klaktar]

Hmmmm...maybe EQ3's character creation will involve choosing the races of both your parents (within set limits) to alter the appearance of your character. I like the runes on erudites but think they look really stupid, having those runes on another race that doesn't look like it was born in the back of the short bus would indeed be nice. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/47941865eb7bbc2a777305b46cc059a2.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />high elf + erudite, dark elf = barbarian, maybe...lol.

[Nocturnal Aby]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ahh. Nocturnal said it was from a private message from Vhalen.</p><p> I'm surprised he didn't ask Noc to keep it a secret. When I asked him for a bit of lore a long time ago, he asked me to keep his info from private tells a secret, which I have and will.</p></blockquote><p>Hi, been quiet for a while, but since you are talking about me, I thought I'd pipe up a bit.  First and foremost, I'd like to thank Vhalen for any and all information regarding the deities that he has so generously and freely given.  What?  Something on my nose?  Oh, sorry.  Anyways, before I post anything Vhalen tells me, I make sure it is alright with him before hand.  That said, what makes you think I've revealed everything he's told me?  And to that fact, Vhalen, I've been looking and waiting, and still haven't found anything more on our old friend, Dr. Fine, though the appearence of his old nemesis is fun!</p><p>Onto topic, this is all very, very interesting to me, since biologically, one of the defining definitions of a species, is that it is able to procreate fertile offspring.  It is by this token that all dogs are the same species (canis), and that the "breeds" we have labelled them are simply for our own benefit.  It is also why humans and other great apes are different species.  We cannot mate with them and have offspring (or at least fertile offspring).  Now in EQ, the fact that elves and humans, created by two very different creators, which brings us back around to a very, very important point.  It's a game.  A game set in a fantasy world.  By that same token, it's possible that in this realm, there do exist half dwarves, kerra-barbarian hybrids, and ratonga-gnome love children, we don't see them because of the restrictions of game mechanics.</p><p>While I'm inclined to agree that a union between an iksar and an elf is not only unfruitful (different chromosomes) but nigh impossible (different parts), it's also important to remember that this is a game, and players have the freedom to RP any way they'd like.</p><p>As for rational explanations as to the absence of certain unions, the afore mentioned "different parts" explanation would work for several species (iksar, frogloks, and sarnak), we can also add "different sizes" to some of them (let's face it, an ogre would rip most races apart, or in other cases, would be like feeding a tic tac to a whale).  That said, the comparison of ogre-barbarian unions, or ogre-troll unions (in some limited circles, the odd dialect of ogres was attributed to a group of younger males who couldn't win ogre mates adopted the accent to pick up troll women.  Talk about things that make you go "Buuggghhh&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, I imagine would be quite possible, though often less probable.  In other circumstances, I imagine the progeny of a dwarf-gnome union would look...well, like either a hairy gnome, or skinnier dwarf.  Either way, they'd probably look more like one than the other, and be able to fit somewhat with that race.</p><p>All in all, an interesting topic.</p>

[Moltove]

As much as I agree with you on some parts <span class="name"><b>Nocturnal</b></span>, I still feel that, though this is a fantasy game, and players can do whatever they want....that there should still be certain restrictions and structure. I mean, we can't bypass every law of the world by saying "lulz, I can floatz and ignorz da gravity cause I'm a castorxes!"That's why there's the naming rules, to prevent silly-heads logging onto our beautiful child of a server, named Antonia Bayle, and stinking it up with, "lulz, I keeled you cauz I'm super 1337!!"*cough* ok, ok, I'm exaggerating a bit with that, but the point remains. Within every world, dimension, or planar existence that you enter, there are rules that are set in place. Norrath has done a pretty good job of being realistic, yet flexible to those rpers who wish it. If you think about it, I think this whole discussion, though, is really not just about a "what happens if you cross a Gnome with a Troll", but more of a, "How far as players, can we test this specific role play function and game play mechanics?"Sex and relationships is obviously not the aim of any developer's goal to implement in this game. Heck, half the relationships we find in quests end up making us laugh! The Errolisi's Day quests for example. That silly man who hits on all the chicks and orders me to go around and hit on all those other people-- then the fact that some of the chars that I had to deliver a pickup line to, thought I was coming onto them-- and that included a male Dwarf! *cringe* Or was he a she? I can never tell-- the beards always throw me off >.<It's only natural for us to really be questioning these limits of Norrath, to provoke the wanted attention of the Devs to fill our brains with delicious lore. The fact that it's "just a fantasy game" means nothing now. It's our game, our perfect worls where we pay only one bill-- the reaccuring EQRent. By us creating posts like these, it's us role players opening up and shouting for structure and reassurance! And really, once those rules and those beams of solid structure are placed...don't we just find ways around them? And does it not add a fun challenge to try and find ways to contradict or just work around them, perhaps finding something more delightful about our characters, or even ourselves? I think so.My name is Moltove...and I am a ROLE PLAYER!! Rawr! =3------Ok...maybe it IS also mostly about wondering what would happen if a Gnome and Troll "sealed the deal"...but I hope I sparked an interesting point! hehe.

[Nocturnal Aby]

<p>Lol, Moltove, nice little speech, but you missed the point of me saying "It's a game."  I had hoped to illustrate that, while in a world similar to ours, the sheer anatomy of several of the races (iksar, frogloks, sarnak, ogres, all in the ways I had eluded too previously) would prevent the possibility of mating or at the very least, of producing viable offspring, the fact that this is a fantasy game means that these characteristics may not be problems.  As I am fond of saying, the devs can do anything they want.  If a dev were to say, "Yes, an iksar and a dark elf can have a weird, scaley love child with odd horns and purple scales," then nature be damned, it could happen!</p><p>Also, no matter what the dev response on this (though with a thread of this sort, I doubt we'll hear anything concrete from the devs), there will be players who ignore the standard, and push on with the way they want to play, in some respects, making whatever rules that are established fairly moot.</p><p>PS, I really dislike it when RPers do that, but that's my own issues</p>

[Moltove]

hehe, ty...But my point remains; just because it's a game doesn't mean it can't go without some form of stucture. In this case, genetics and what not. It's up to the devs to really say "genetics" or "magic (lulz lookit that Gnomish Troll!)". And, granted it's player's choice, even if the Dev-Gods say thou shall not reproduce with thy Ogre, some players will find that loophole or...unfortunately completely ignore the ruling altogether and go ahead and produce a bountiful of kids. And really, I don't think that there is *too* much of a problem with that. I think there's a Dark Elf daughter who is somehow related enough to an Iksar that she has diamond shaped scales on her hands or palms or something. I dunno how that went down, nor do I really want to know, but it doesn't interfere with my rp, so as long as she doesn't shoot lazer beams out of them scale things. Otherwise she still acts just like a snooty Teir'Dal, just magnified x10 since she has an Iksar attitude and hates any soft skin that walks near her.Maybe then, we seek confirmation? Well, either way, magic or genetics, having solid lore helps us define the characters who we create. If you're into the whole defying science and physics and whatnot, there's a good chance that your offspring wasn't the first thing that offended lore and game mechanic rules. I've seen it every day in the Haze, there's -someone- who just wants to be the BA. And well...it wouldn't be my Blood Haze Inn without them =)(not trying to lump all those who may have bended the rules a bit into a single category of, say "cheaters" or anything like that. I'm notorious for exaggerating, as you see, hehe. Heck, I bent the rules plenty of times along the line-- only to find I was wrong, then took up the challenge to correct myself, lol. But there are still some things about my char I would never change, even with lore saying otherwise. I just beleive that some lore things can be broken, so as long as they don't directly affect other players and the like.)

[Apocroph]

I'm sure there are plenty of reasonable inferences you can easily make from looking at which races would make a habit of associating with each other.For example, the only relationship I've ever heard of Trolls and Gnomes having is that of predator and prey.Half Elf... Well that leaves a little more room for creative interpretation, doesn't it?  Which half is elf, and what kind of elf?This isn't something that really merits a Developer thinking for you, you can do it yourself.  Xenophobic races like the Iksar, and now even the High Elves, don't associate with, let alone mate with, other races.Just ask yourself, "What would Gary Gygax say to this?"

[Meirril]

<cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just ask yourself, "What would Gary Gygax say to this?"</blockquote><p>Have you ever herd of mongrel-men?</p><p>Lets not take this genetic cross breeding thing too far. We don't want some trolls and Iksar to get the idea that just because they were both created by Cazic that they should mate. After all that would result in a prismatic terror that could vie with Cazic himself and has been outlawed. Imagine the unnatural horror...</p><p>Or you could have Dark elves and High elves getting together to make Grey elves, masters of apathy and the new chosen race of Quillious. Yeah, that could work.</p>

[KniteShayd]

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just ask yourself, "What would Gary Gygax say to this?"</blockquote><p>Have you ever herd of mongrel-men?</p><p>Lets not take this genetic cross breeding thing too far. We don't want some trolls and Iksar to get the idea that just because they were both created by Cazic that they should mate. After all that would result in a prismatic terror that could vie with Cazic himself and has been outlawed. Imagine the unnatural horror...</p><p>Or you could have Dark elves and High elves getting together to make Grey elves, masters of apathy and the new chosen race of Quillious. Yeah, that could work.</p></blockquote>/giggle

[valkry]

<cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just ask yourself, "What would Gary Gygax say to this?"</blockquote><p>Actually, my house D&D group had a chance to have dinner with Mr. Gygax in '00 (nice Italian resturant in Virginia Beach, VA). We did ask Mr. Gygax about "Role Playing" as he developed the game (Chainmail, the pre D&D game. It had a fighter, a mage, a elf and a dwarf for character class/races you could play.) and we all had to laugh when he said "Well, we did have Elves." You need to remember, Gygax started gaming from his experience replaying historical battles with minatures...he was much more interested in the game mechanics then the near LARPish role-playing aspects. </p><p>So while I've had great fun building back stories to my characters (multiple-personalities) over the years...I'm pretty sure Mr. Gygax would just be the encouraging mentor he was (to everyone who's lives he touched)... and let the individual gamers continue the evolution of 'gaming' as we know it, be that the mechanics of fighting, or the 'mechanics' of what the offspring of a Barbarian & a 1/2 Dark Elf 1/2 Human would be.</p><p>RIP G. Gygax (Wishing you could just roll up a new toon).</p>