this is kinda odd sony made warlocks so close to wizards

[Yourgoddess]

iv been reading the warlock threads and they are saying they out dps us and get wizard ports as well. Iv also noticed they have about the same spells just called different name's . This i don't understand in eq1 wizards where always one out of 2 class's with ports the other was druids. We also did massive numbers in raids and normally toped the dmg charts. Is Sony trying to ruin wizards in eq2? Iv always loved this class and iv always played it for the massive dps but now i see our class being replaced by a wow class copy cat.Iv also been talking to some high end raiders on the server i play on and they are saying pet class's are toping the dmg charts?Humm i don't know if this is true or not but i do hope its not.

[Yourgoddess]

Iv just came back to eq2 after 4 years was playing other games and iv noticed one more thing our spells have became very resistant lots of resistsMy main thats a 59 wizard is no longer playable so i had to start over and iv made a new wizard

[Grol]

You could've practiced your spells if they were being resisted too much, your casting skills may have been too low. And warlocks are better with groups, wizards are better solo (The enemy I mean, not the player)

[iceriven2]

Wizards and warlocks are both sorcerers, sorcerers get ports.  Also yeah we share some spells with warlocks. And we have very similar spells.  Like they have a version of the ball of... and the high dot heat spell but its poison.  BUT they do play very very different in the later game. 50 plus mostly, even in the lower lvls they play different.  I have a 70 warlock and a 80 wizard.  So on paper they look alike but over all they have there noticeable differences.Wizards currently share the number one dps spot with several other classes.  Warlocks Assassins and at one time rangers, once there arrows are fixed there be up there again.  Even a well played summoner and rogue can do the same or even more.   So we do great dps but there isnt a class that is the undisputed KING of it. And if i recall Wizards havent been king in eq1 since ldon over 3 years ago... still visit the wizard eq1 site, forget the name, they [Removed for Content] all the time how monks zerkers and a few other classes out dps them np.  So i always thought wizards were more favored in eq2 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kelorn]

<p>I don't group with many warlocks, really. I use ACT whenever I'm in a group or raid and the few times I have had a Warlock with me, the warlock has no chance of outdpsing me unless it's a group encounter and even then they sometimes don't (yay for Fission!). And I've never had a warlock beat me on the zone-wide parse in a group or in a raid. What it comes down to is that most pulls in a group or a raid are a single pull, and for good reason, it's easier to tank and easier to heal. Yes there are some encounters, but those have been fewer and further between in RoK. </p><p> I have no real problem with where wizards are at on the DPS chart. In a group zone wide EXT Dps I'll parse around 2k. In a raid that jumps to 2.5-2.75k due to debuffs and proper group setup. When you look at DPS and no EXT DPS, I've hit in excess of 6 or 7k, but I usually don't count that, as it tends to be biased to certain classes. Since hitting 80 and filling out my gear, I've consistently topped the raid DPS chart, so I think we're right where we're supposed to be. </p><p>A few things to also mention, the "A raid wizards guide" post in this forum is particularly good and I encourage you all to read it. It has a lot of good info and will help your ability to DPS tremendously. I feel obliged to make my own list of priorities for maximum wizard DPS.</p><p>1) A tank you trust and can hold agro</p><p>2) Proper spell order for maximum DPS</p><p>3) Proper group setup</p><p>4) Gear</p><p>If you get agro from every large nuke you do (Ball of Magma/Bolt of Ice) you need a new tank. Don't laugh, it's happened to me before. There's a berserker on my server that things zerkers don't need to taunt that they do enough dps to hold agro without taunts. *shudder* Spell order is by far the next most important. If you just spam ball of magma and Bolt of Ice when they're up you'll get lots of pretty and large numbers floating over the heads of the mob, but looking at my parses, Ball of Magma and Bolt of Ice make up LESS than 50% of my total zone wide dps. Where does the rest of it come from? DoTs, Sunstrike and Fission are the next big hitters for me. Fission is very iffy for me, I don't hit it every time it's up like some wizards reccomend, I just don't find the cast time worthwhile unless you have at least two targets. It also gets me dead a lot and that's no good for DPS! =) After that, group setup is important, Furies, illusionists and troubadours are all your friends, get them as much as possible. And last and almost certainly least is gear. Yes, gear is important. Yes, gear will up your dps. But gear will not magically make a crappy wizzie a good one. You need at the VERY least 1 and 2 before gear will make a big difference. I have 56% spell crit and +852 spell damage and it makes a big difference, I can tell from the parses, so definitely get the best gear you can. Just don't expect it to work like a miracle. =)</p><p> Cheers!</p>

[iceriven2]

best guides hands down is found in eq2flames.  theres a few there but they go into great detail.

[yzyh]

<cite>Yourgoddess wrote:</cite><blockquote>iv been reading the warlock threads and they are saying they out dps us and get wizard ports as well. Iv also noticed they have about the same spells just called different name's . This i don't understand in eq1 wizards where always one out of 2 class's with ports the other was druids. We also did massive numbers in raids and normally toped the dmg charts. Is Sony trying to ruin wizards in eq2? Iv always loved this class and iv always played it for the massive dps but now i see our class being replaced by a wow class copy cat.Iv also been talking to some high end raiders on the server i play on and they are saying pet class's are toping the dmg charts?Humm i don't know if this is true or not but i do hope its not.</blockquote><p>1) 2 class where porting in EQ1 but in EQ2 they doubled each class (1 evil and 1 good) thats why you got 4 porting class here.</p><p>2) EQ1 wizard would top DMG on some specifique fight and till the OOC regen patch they where mediocre long therm DPS especialy in raids (issue aggro on some fight and just flat out out of mana in others)</p><p>3) Warlock beat wizard DPS on the AoE content. On single contant wizard beat Warlock. So they are bot very viable to a raid force and as for grouping its depend on the content but the wizard seems to be most wanted (most players mis-understand the warlock)</p><p>4) Actualy SoE had a bad idea with making 24class instead of 12.</p>

[Force Weaver]

<cite>Kelorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ffffff;">1) A tank you trust and can hold agro</span></p></blockquote><p>I've actually had to run my AA lines for grouping around the fact that I I'm shooting 1/5 for PUG's with tanks that can hold aggro.  Had a sad day once when an 80 Bsk Executioner couldn't hold my 20% flat hate reduction lvl 78 wizzy aggro after I pop IN halfway through the fight every time.  </p><p>Running 20% less hate vs 4% base damage boost wasn't a hard decision, but I just can't bring myself to drop the 12% recast reduction for the 2 position threat reducer ability yet.</p><p>To the OP, Kelorn's point may be THE most important point in this thread as the tank is the foundation for what you can do.</p>

[Kelorn]

<p>Thanks Force,</p><p>And to those with agro control problems, i highly reccomend a paladin as your tank whom you beg, borrow or steal for to give you Amends. That or a friendly (although very rare) troubador you group with constantly who will lower your hate.</p>

[Force Weaver]

<p><span style="color: #ffffff;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><u>We all can do our part to help the tanks do their job though:</u></span> </span></p><p>They've finally reached the point in T8 where the average "joe" at the end of the game be more uber DPS than<span style="color: #ffffff;"> all but the most elite Gaurd/Pally's </span>can handle w/o hate transfer classes.  Before this point in the game you really won't see the super aggro issues you now hear on this board alot.</p><p>So even if Adept III's and the odd master or two is your personal ceiling w/ all the +crit, +spell damage, +reuse time, etc. equipment is just too much heat when you're packing 125+ AA later on.</p><p>Those who <span style="color: #ffffff;">access most group content via the ole PUG</span> should seriously consider "tank-proofing" yourself by thinking hard about having both the sorcerer and wizard trees at max dps arrangements.  </p><p>Running the offensive & power reducing Fire/Ice in the wizard tree really does add the juice the tanks can't handle without a mandatory hate transfer class which just won't always be in that PUG.  Who knows maybe you'll end up with a SK w/o hate transfer on occasion.  </p><p>Everyone is always argueing over how to work the sorcerer line but the wizard line adds just as much capacity and is often overlooked because most everyone is in agreement of how it should be distrubuted.  </p><p>The concussive/cease bubbles in the wizard tree just aren't as effective as the flat hate reducer or threat reduction ability in the Int line on the sorcerer tree though.  </p><p>I'm having to run the sorcerer tree like I did back when 50 AP was the cap <i>and</i> then take my extra 20 and work 4/4/4/8 Int line plus the hate pet when grouping.  The second line ability at rank 4 is like having a 3rd deggro spell to boot.</p><p>When we hit the next cap increase for tree AA I will have to raise my hate ceiling with the full Int line unless tanks get some easy button hate control beause we will need our own rescue.  Int 4/8/4/8/2 then for sure.</p>

[iceriven2]

Agro is a huge issue for your every day wizzie.  But theres a few options you can Choose AA's that help OR only dps as much as your grp allows.  In other words, our dps is completely dependent on what class is in our grp, just learn to adjust to the grp makeup.  And realize some grps you will have a chance to do great dps while others u wont. Theres also a slew of threat decrease items, although i dont personally think there great there out there.