T8 raiding and sorcerer dps vs Melee

[caliburns]

<p>i've been a wizzard since i started this game, i have alts all level 70+ Brig,Sk,Fury/warden,brusier i play my wizard the most, why? because they need the most talent to play pvp, you need to think, its like a game of chess if you are afew steps ahead you will win.</p><p>Ever since the new gear there has been no way for me to even come close to melee dps, their damage is just insane, who would want a caster in the group when they could take another assassin/swashy/brigand or better yet a ranger, I dont know what SoE are doing but i feel that some thing is amiss, this melee damage output cant be as intended..</p><p>Caster spell seem to scale really poorly compared to high damage fast casting combat arts, Are any other sorcerer have issues beating melee dps or even coming close to their damage?</p>

[iceriven2]

Melee own this expansion for sure.  I am an 80 wizard that has been raiding since kos,not hardcore but still raid lots.  as one of the tops dpser in my guild i noticed it takes a lot more then usual for me to beat the melee peeps in my guild in T8.  I have only come close with the entire grp in raid build for me, which isnt practical (consisted of fury, troub, warlock, SK, ME, illy, best to place a melee dps in the sk spot, usually)   Best thing i can tell ya is if your close or within 500 dps on grps your not doing bad.  Takes the best none raid fabled items plus a ton of masters to keep up with them.No expert on why but yes there is an adept 3 scaling issue that has been present since launch,  t7 to t8 adept 3's only scale by 1% if lucky 3% while master go 7% to 12%.  Its a huge difference.   unfortunately i dont see them fixing it anytime soon.

[millfac]

if a wizard has a troub and illy and he's losing a parse to rogue's and rangers... either pay attention when you raid (i.e. quit slacking) or just rethink your setup, you're not a good wizard. (yet)check the EQ2 Flames forums too, wizzies are outparsing assassins by quite a bit on average in the end game. All things even, a good wizzy and a good assassin will be neck and neck, a good swashy and brigand will be behind them. Any sorc or rogue worth a copper should be topping a ranger right now... (since dev's seem to hate them with a passion.)Raids will still want you even if you don't outparse rogue's though, you have Velium gift, and that makes other mages happy.

[ailees]

Without asking what is your spell order, and how you play, don't forget one big thing :If you read topics from here and from EQ2flame, you discovered that our DPS is depending a lot on 2 things : WHO is in your group (troub...) and what gear you have.In my guild, we have an assassin who is THE top DPS, he beats everyone by a lot. Sometimes when I have a bad group, I would need 50% more to be at his level !I had a look at his gear, and spoke with him : he's got a very very nice one, with almost <u>100% crit</u>. My gear is far from his, i'm at 45% crit ; My main spells are still adept3 ; I have no way to compete with him.  Last raid (PAW, zone wide before named) I had a troub and TC, and was still 20% under him.Oh, BTW, we are raiding ROK 1/2 will start 3 soon, but we ain't at all uber, I don't even dream with the 4/5 K (or 7 !!) average of the guys who parse in "new parse"

[Telcontari71]

<p>Hello,</p><p>Yes Melee class do insane DPS... but wizards aren't bad either.   Mind you, I can never keep up with the brigands and swashys on T8 instances &  EoF raids.... but...  I am usually 300-400 behind them.</p><p>Our raid force bursts about 28-30K dps at x4 EoF raid zones.   Swashy/Brig do about   2.5K to 3K,  I do about 2K to 2.5K.   But so much of DPS depends on:</p><p> Groups, Gearing, AA, Casting Sequence and skill.   I thought I was having problems...   I was parsing about 1.2K to 1.5K and was having issues... so I posted on the forum.</p><p> I changed my AAs.  Dropped silly things like manaburn and instead focused on pure raid DPS dps build.   Second I played very close attention to items I have...  Expecially items that boost critcicals, add spell damamge, reduce reuse time, and hasten casting times.    I improved from 8% cricts to 37%.   Finally improved the casting order...  macro chaining spells...  and working with other classes within the group / raid to ensure that you get the right buffs cast on you our usually raid setup is all the mages with a fury...and sometimes a toub.   I usually have VIM and time compression.  If the troub is in our group, jesters cap as much as possible and precision whenever up.</p><p>Yes melee may still do more dps than you... and maybe that issue will be addressed... but so long as you are within touching distance (400-600) of the top DPS, just playing well and enjoying...  I would not worry.</p><p>Nims</p>

[Telcontari71]

<p>Dupe - Edited</p>

[iceriven2]

Not sure how the dps is since the recent updates changed resists.  BUT in the lower tiers, 1-3 of raiding from what i read in eq2flames scouts own while VP casters ruled.  I am in t2- t3 raiding.  I can get 3-4.5k single target. While the assassin and brigand in my guild get 4-6k depending.Also who is in your grp and spell order mean everything.  Troub, illy, fury and warlock even after props nerf.  if your missing just one of those classes your dps takes a dive.  And the t7 spell order on eq2flames still applies to t8 for the most part.

[Griffinhart]

<p>IMHO, Wizard DPS is more dependant on other classes than most classes.  I realize all other classes benefit from key classes, but I often see noticable differences in DPS with minor changes.  The guild group I play in most of the time as an example:  Normally a warden is part of the group.  She is aa speced so that she can use her spells as combat arts.  One of the side effects of that is her Cold and Heat debuff drops by about 200.  It's very easy to tell when she is using the combat art version vs the spell.  Without fail, I can tell when she is using one or the other.  When I'm in a group without even that kind of debuff the DPS goes down even more.  Bolt of Ice (adept 3) will average closer to 15K (with catalyst) without a debuffer.  With the Warden using Combat Arts it averages closer to 17K.  With the spell version closer to 18K.  Add a brig to the group and it shoots up to 21K+ on average.</p><p>The difference isn't quite as noticable on smaller spells, but Wizard spells in general are a bit larger single hits than most other classes.  As a result, these differences are more noticable than other classes that would get off 2 or three hits durring the same time period.</p>

[iceriven2]

<cite>Griffinhart wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>IMHO, Wizard DPS is more dependant on other classes than most classes.  I realize all other classes benefit from key classes, but I often see noticable differences in DPS with minor changes.  The guild group I play in most of the time as an example:  Normally a warden is part of the group.  She is aa speced so that she can use her spells as combat arts.  One of the side effects of that is her Cold and Heat debuff drops by about 200.  It's very easy to tell when she is using the combat art version vs the spell.  Without fail, I can tell when she is using one or the other.  When I'm in a group without even that kind of debuff the DPS goes down even more.  Bolt of Ice (adept 3) will average closer to 15K (with catalyst) without a debuffer.  With the Warden using Combat Arts it averages closer to 17K.  With the spell version closer to 18K.  Add a brig to the group and it shoots up to 21K+ on average.</p><p>The difference isn't quite as noticable on smaller spells, but Wizard spells in general are a bit larger single hits than most other classes.  As a result, these differences are more noticable than other classes that would get off 2 or three hits durring the same time period.</p></blockquote>/agreeraid tonite wasnt the normal setup.  Had a SK, fury, conjy, bruiser another wizard.  Dps was 1.5 k lower at times.  that was the extreme but it averaged about 900-1k less dps then normal.

[suroktheslayer5]

I've been playing EQ2 since day one and I can tell that wizzys got shafted when RoK came out. I used to be a stalwart supporter of knowing your class and knowing how to play to squeeze every bit of dps out of your toon. But something has changed <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> It used to be that a very good scout could beat me by 20 or 30 percent on the parse. Now without hyperbole, they're getting close to 200% more in some cases. I'm really trying to figure out what the hell is going on, either my gear sucks really bad, everyone else is fully mastered or somehow wizzys really do suck atm. It kinda reminds me of time when there was a problem with wizzy dps way long ago when the cap was lv 50. Back then they increased our damage output by 50%, seems we need a similar increase to make up the difference again.

[simpwrx02]

A good place to get helpful information from peeps that really understand the game is eq2 fla mes

[Pathin Merrithay]

<cite>simpwrx02 wrote:</cite><blockquote>A good place to get helpful information from peeps that really understand the game is eq2 fla mes</blockquote><p>Agreed. A few things:</p><p>You should never be in a group without a troubador. Never. Never ever. If you dont have one, recruit one. To a lesser extent, illusionists and Time Compression. beg borrow and steal for it. Our group setup defines how much DPS we can put out. Caster DPS benefitsd hugely depending on the other group members.</p><p>In general: It depends on the mob's level. My guild's melee and myself will trade off alot depending on the fight. In RoK raids, I can get outparsed but never out of the top 3-4 spots. In VP, I am -never- outparsed unless I pulled agro and died. Wizards rule supreme among orange and up mobs.</p>

[iceriven2]

From the chatter in eq2flames about dps i here wizards rule in VP and higher raid guilds.  they do much better at the end of the end game then in the beginning of the endgame....did that make sense lol

[Pathin Merrithay]

<cite>iceriven2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>From the chatter in eq2flames about dps i here wizards rule in VP and higher raid guilds.  they do much better at the end of the end game then in the beginning of the endgame....did that make sense lol</blockquote>This is correct. It's harder for us to top DPS parses against lower level mobs then against higher level ones.