SOE and it's lack of care

[Nascent]

I've been pondering canceling my account for the past 3 months and I guess I am looking for reasons to continue playing. The reasons I haven't quit:I have tons of friends in the guild and would like to see Nexona die again and get my mythical.The reasons I want to quit:SOE never produces the content they say they will. Guild halls, epics were way late, they were broken when they were released, t8 treasured replaced much of the t7 fabled, VP loot is not worth the time to do it, and Nexona is really only beatable by avatar geared guilds. When doing my epic, the day they came out, I got stuck on loading entity resources when zoning into the fourth floor of PP. I eventually closed the window so I could try to get back in. I logged back in to find myself outside of the zone and locked out for 18 hours. I petitioned and thought they may be understanding because this bug happens constantly during raids and zoning in general. But of course they didn't understand. A LEAD GM said that it was my fault that I got locked out because my internet must have cut out. He took no regard to me saying that I was in vent talking to people at the time and browsing whilst I zoned. He simply said lockouts are there for a reason and there is nothing they can do about it. Way to go customer support. You really came through on that one. As stated above, Veeshan's Peak loot is a complete joke. There are a few good pieces, but not many to make it worth re-clearing. Especially when the hardest wing is the first wing. I remember when there used to be some progression to the game. That has long since been gone. There is no way the first wing should be the hardest wing. Druushk is also bugged to the point of guilds exploiting it as the only way beating it. I play on the Unrest server, and I'm sure most of you have heard about the Unhallowed Triad fiasco. Well, I don't much like being treated like I'm a mean human being because SOE just felt like being nice to a guild that has tested the game. They rolled their characters on test and knew the transfer rules. However, SOE decided to break their own policies and <b>sneak</b> the guild to Unrest. Once the players found out, they were understandably upset, unless you were SOE. Sony basically said that we were a bane to the game. Way to go again, at making your customers feel great.RoK has been almost a complete failure. The only fun raid zones are t2 raid zones and maybe PR.-----------Tell me again why I shouldn't quit?

[Grol]

So you're complaining abuot end-game content? Simple fix, make a new alt!

[Nascent]

<cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you're complaining abuot end-game content? Simple fix, make a new alt!</blockquote>My goal of the game isn't to have 10 alts. It is to raid end game content. When there are players dropping off the server, and others, left and right because SOE doesn't care about players, there is a problem.

[Grol]

<cite>LocoRaider wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you're complaining abuot end-game content? Simple fix, make a new alt!</blockquote>My goal of the game isn't to have 10 alts. It is to raid end game content. When there are players dropping off the server, and others, left and right because SOE doesn't care about players, there is a problem.</blockquote><p>Then another simple answer. If you're here for end gae content, and the end game content isn't satisfying you, then quit. You're paying fr something that you aren't satisfied with, and that's pointless in my opinion. </p><p> And I said <b><i>a</i></b> alt. Not 10. I have 3 characters, all under 40, and I'm perfectly happy with all of them, especially my main. I'm questing, adventuring.. all that good stuff, and loving every second. But I don't raid. I don't feel the need to, and I don't feel the need to rush through the game to get to end-game, so I'm happy. Seriously, if you aren't happy with the game, don't play.</p>

[Nascent]

<cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>LocoRaider wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you're complaining abuot end-game content? Simple fix, make a new alt!</blockquote>My goal of the game isn't to have 10 alts. It is to raid end game content. When there are players dropping off the server, and others, left and right because SOE doesn't care about players, there is a problem.</blockquote><p>Then another simple answer. If you're here for end gae content, and the end game content isn't satisfying you, then quit. You're paying fr something that you aren't satisfied with, and that's pointless in my opinion. </p><p> And I said <b><i>a</i></b> alt. Not 10. I have 3 characters, all under 40, and I'm perfectly happy with all of them, especially my main. I'm questing, adventuring.. all that good stuff, and loving every second. But I don't raid. I don't feel the need to, and I don't feel the need to rush through the game to get to end-game, so I'm happy. Seriously, if you aren't happy with the game, don't play.</p></blockquote>That's why I'm thinking about quitting. I do play alts, but I'm a raider at heart and concentrate on keeping my troub up with everything he needs. I have a 72 necro and a 55 warden that I burn time with.

[Valeriena]

<p>While I agree with you what are ya gonna do really?Guess you can try the other MMOs out there but they all got the same probs.your listing for EQ2.Its just the nature of the beast</p><p>with these kind of games.Id say just hold out in hope they fix this stuff.Or at least wait till the 2 new mmos come out like everyone else and hope they have there act together.(doubtful).</p>

[bleap]

You are complaining about your Mythical epic when over 50% of players will be lucky to get the fabled version....I have said it before and I stick to it. The game has become nothing more than class envy...The haves (raiders) versus the have not (casual players) and the raiders (at least some) look down their noses at casual players like we are peons....Elietist snobs like this ruin the game for others because these are the people that SOE judges the content of the entire game by...Quit, by all means...just go play WoW or LOTRO or something...You are right...the customer service in EQ2 is terrible..that's a no brainer...but to whine because your gear isn't good enough?

[Csky]

i have a blast in the game,  i couldnt care less about raiding tho

[Nascent]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are complaining about your Mythical epic when over 50% of players will be lucky to get the fabled version....I have said it before and I stick to it. The game has become nothing more than class envy...The haves (raiders) versus the have not (casual players) and the raiders (at least some) look down their noses at casual players like we are peons....Elietist snobs like this ruin the game for others because these are the people that SOE judges the content of the entire game by...Quit, by all means...just go play WoW or LOTRO or something...You are right...the customer service in EQ2 is terrible..that's a no brainer...but to whine because your gear isn't good enough? </blockquote>I play the game to progress and getting better gear is a part of that. I'm not a casual player, of course I want better gear. The hardcore raid guilds get mythicals because they put the time and effort in for it. Why should raiders get screwed because we kill more content than casual players? My problem has nothing to do with casual players. My problem has to do with the way Sony treats the entire player base and raiders more specifically.Edit: And the whine about gear comes from the fact that the easiest raid zones in t8 drop better gear than the hardest raid zone in t8. That's not right.

[StormCinder]

<p>I think this was asked/answered/locked about 2 weeks ago.  I'm going to dig through the archives, but I think this is a cut/paste job.</p><p>I suspect some guerrilla marketing by Blizzard to discourage new players.  Note all of the references to raid content, etc.</p><p>Regardless, this is not the proper forum for this. </p><p>SC</p>

[Dasein]

<cite>StormCinder wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think this was asked/answered/locked about 2 weeks ago.  I'm going to dig through the archives, but I think this is a cut/paste job.</p><p>I suspect some guerrilla marketing by Blizzard to discourage new players.  Note all of the references to raid content, etc.</p><p>Regardless, this is not the proper forum for this. </p><p>SC</p></blockquote>These same arguments have been made since 2004. While a few are legitimate complaints, most are just your standard MMO player whining that goes on in every game. Some people need to feel persecuted, and are unable to see anything but the negative aspects of whatever they are doing. If they raid, SOE hates raiders, if they solo, SOE hate soloers, and so on. They can be safely ignored.

[Nascent]

<cite>StormCinder wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think this was asked/answered/locked about 2 weeks ago.  I'm going to dig through the archives, but I think this is a cut/paste job.</p><p>I suspect some guerrilla marketing by Blizzard to discourage new players.  Note all of the references to raid content, etc.</p><p>Regardless, this is not the proper forum for this. </p><p>SC</p></blockquote>Wow. You suspect me to be from another company? These are legit concerns that 90% of raiders have at this current time. Go check out eq2flames if you don't believe me. Blizzard, and other companies don't need to do anything to pull people away from this game. SOE is doing a great job at pushing them away. Point me to the proper forum for this concern? I expect this thread to get locked and deleted as there is no proper forum on the official boards for this type of discussion.

[Rqron]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are complaining about your Mythical epic when over 50% of players will be lucky to get the fabled version....I have said it before and I stick to it. The game has become nothing more than class envy...The haves (raiders) versus the have not (casual players) and the raiders (at least some) look down their noses at casual players like we are peons....Elietist snobs like this ruin the game for others because these are the people that SOE judges the content of the entire game by...Quit, by all means...just go play WoW or LOTRO or something...You are right...the customer service in EQ2 is terrible..that's a no brainer...but to whine because your gear isn't good enough? </blockquote>Quit, go, don't let the door hit you on your way out. If you are not satisfied by all means leave. If you are so into raiding that you don't want to be bothered with normal game play then you may want to either retire from MMOS until there is something better or learn how to design games and make one...call it ever raid and take all your raiding buddies that think like you with you.J.C.edit: bah hit the wrong quote button :=((

[Nascent]

I like EQ2, don't get me wrong. I just want to see it improve in every way and it just hasn't been happening. Content is released broken, then it's fixed until it's broken again. SOE is notorious for this. Their customer service needs improvements as most people know. They have been shady in past dealing as well. I don't want to quit because I've always liked EQ and EQ2 and I feel the raids are the most fun, up until RoK. If I were to quit EQ2, I would likely just pick up another game to fill my time and just be a casual player. I would like to continue raiding with my guildies and kill better content in a linear progression.

[Grol]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just want to see it improve in every way and it just hasn't been happening.</blockquote>There's your problem. <b>every way</b>? Seriously? You're insane.

[Nascent]

<cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just want to see it improve in every way and it just hasn't been happening.</blockquote>There's your problem. <b>every way</b>? Seriously? You're insane.</blockquote>Am I not supposed to want to see the game improve? I don't expect it to be fixed overnight. I do expect changes in patches to be game fixing changes and not useless changes that only 1% of the community will use.

[bleap]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are complaining about your Mythical epic when over 50% of players will be lucky to get the fabled version....I have said it before and I stick to it. The game has become nothing more than class envy...The haves (raiders) versus the have not (casual players) and the raiders (at least some) look down their noses at casual players like we are peons....Elietist snobs like this ruin the game for others because these are the people that SOE judges the content of the entire game by...Quit, by all means...just go play WoW or LOTRO or something...You are right...the customer service in EQ2 is terrible..that's a no brainer...but to whine because your gear isn't good enough? </blockquote>I play the game to progress and getting better gear is a part of that. I'm not a casual player, of course I want better gear. The hardcore raid guilds get mythicals because they put the time and effort in for it. Why should raiders get screwed because we kill more content than casual players? My problem has nothing to do with casual players. My problem has to do with the way Sony treats the entire player base and raiders more specifically.Edit: And the whine about gear comes from the fact that the easiest raid zones in t8 drop better gear than the hardest raid zone in t8. That's not right.</blockquote>I will grant you that itemization is screwed up....We raided DeathToll over the weekend (we are once a week raiders, and not very good at it) but the gear that dropped was not as good as the treasured junk that is given as quest rewards and treasured chests...And there are now legendary items dropping in T8,  that aren't as good as the T8 MC gear.....The entire loot table for T8 needs a rework, but it won't happen....Onward and upward...new content over fixing broken content, some of which has been broken since DoF....Can anyone say Pet Run Speed? It was fixed in the last LU...oh right....fixed meaning broken more...

[Grol]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just want to see it improve in every way and it just hasn't been happening.</blockquote>There's your problem. <b>every way</b>? Seriously? You're insane.</blockquote>Am I not supposed to want to see the game improve? I don't expect it to be fixed overnight. I do expect changes in patches to be game fixing changes and not useless changes that only 1% of the community will use.</blockquote>Now now, too late to get finicky. You already said every way, and that includes in ways that <b>you</b> aren't going to use. Play more of the game, stop complainaing, or quit. Or just keep complaining, as a fourth option....whatever.

[Nascent]

<cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just want to see it improve in every way and it just hasn't been happening.</blockquote>There's your problem. <b>every way</b>? Seriously? You're insane.</blockquote>Am I not supposed to want to see the game improve? I don't expect it to be fixed overnight. I do expect changes in patches to be game fixing changes and not useless changes that only 1% of the community will use.</blockquote>Now now, too late to get finicky. You already said every way, and that includes in ways that <b>you</b> aren't going to use. Play more of the game, stop complainaing, or quit. Or just keep complaining, as a fourth option....whatever.</blockquote>You're not getting it. I want the game to improve for everyone. Not just myself. However, if it's a fix for 1% of the population it can be put on hold until a fix for 99% of the population is in. I have played more of the game than you ever likely will. I don't simply just raid. I have played alts to 50+ and had fun doing it. However, that's not my focus. My focus is on end game raiding. You can stop putting words in my mouth now.

[LordPazuzu]

<p>Let's see now....</p><p>Devs have well admitted that Druusk was borked and had a fix in the works...</p><p>Guild Halls are still in development, however no eta was ever promised. </p><p>Epics weren't released with the expansion.. yeah that sucked.</p><p>T8 Treasured replaced t7 Fabled? When and where?  I've seen pretty much all of the generic, random generated t8 treasured crap, it did not replace any of my t7 fabled.  T8 legendary did though.  I think that's called "progression".  The t8 treasured that was released with Kunark was admittedly a bit powerful, but htye fixed that a while back.</p><p>Druusk and Nexona are supposed to be really hard.  I think the term a dev used was "gatekeepers to the epics" or something  like that.  </p><p>I can't speak for VP loot, haven't been there.  But, Kunark itemization in general has had some glaring issues.</p><p>Honestly...everything you are whining about is standard in ANY MMO. Bugs happen.  Bad design decisions happen.  They eventually get fixed.  If you can't roll with the punches, find another hobby.  It's pretty simple.  </p>

[Grol]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just want to see it improve in every way and it just hasn't been happening.</blockquote>There's your problem. <b>every way</b>? Seriously? You're insane.</blockquote>Am I not supposed to want to see the game improve? I don't expect it to be fixed overnight. I do expect changes in patches to be game fixing changes and not useless changes that only 1% of the community will use.</blockquote>Now now, too late to get finicky. You already said every way, and that includes in ways that <b>you</b> aren't going to use. Play more of the game, stop complainaing, or quit. Or just keep complaining, as a fourth option....whatever.</blockquote>You're not getting it. I want the game to improve for everyone. Not just myself. However, if it's a fix for 1% of the population it can be put on hold until a fix for 99% of the population is in. I have played more of the game than you ever likely will. I don't simply just raid. I have played alts to 50+ and had fun doing it. However, that's not my focus. My focus is on end game raiding. You can stop putting words in my mouth now.</blockquote><p>Nonono, didn't put any words in your mouth, you did. You want it to improve for everyone, so you complain about the end-game problems that only the  'uber-raiders' and the like will find, and other things that bother mostly you and your ilk. That's improving for <b>you</b> not everyone. I'm not saying you don't want it to improve for everyone, I'm saying that you want <b>your</b> fixes first, as we all do.</p><p>And please don't assume you've played 'more of this game' than I have. I've been playing almost 4 years now, and have had plenty of time to do plenty of things. I have played this game my way, which is constant questing, HQs, writs, and exploration. You have done your thing, which is.. whatever you do. I may have played 'more of this game' geographically than you have, so please don't assume things. I'm not a raider, but I get around.</p>

[Nascent]

<cite>Sulan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Let's see now....</p><p>Devs have well admitted that Druusk was borked and had a fix in the works...</p><p>Guild Halls are still in development, however no eta was ever promised. </p><p>Epics weren't released with the expansion.. yeah that sucked.</p><p>T8 Treasured replaced t7 Fabled? When and where?  I've seen pretty much all of the generic, random generated t8 treasured crap, it did not replace any of my t7 fabled.  T8 legendary did though.  I think that's called "progression".  The t8 treasured that was released with Kunark was admittedly a bit powerful, but htye fixed that a while back.</p><p>Druusk and Nexona are supposed to be really hard.  I think the term a dev used was "gatekeepers to the epics" or something  like that.  </p><p>I can't speak for VP loot, haven't been there.  But, Kunark itemization in general has had some glaring issues.</p><p>Honestly...everything you are whining about is standard in ANY MMO. Bugs happen.  Bad design decisions happen.  They eventually get fixed.  If you can't roll with the punches, find another hobby.  It's pretty simple.  </p></blockquote>t8 solo quest rewards replaced many pieces of t7 fabled for casters and even other classes. Much of the t8 legendary is better than t8 fabled drops in any of the zones. And for this problem being in any MMO, not so much anymore. Other companies release COMPLETE expansions and test their stuff before shoving it down the players throats. Other companies are also quicker on the fixing. SOE is the slowest beast to fix things I've experienced.Why should tier 1 in VP (three tiers) be the hardest tier? It's reverse progression. The argument that the dev made with them being the keepers of the epics is bosh.

[Nascent]

<cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just want to see it improve in every way and it just hasn't been happening.</blockquote>There's your problem. <b>every way</b>? Seriously? You're insane.</blockquote>Am I not supposed to want to see the game improve? I don't expect it to be fixed overnight. I do expect changes in patches to be game fixing changes and not useless changes that only 1% of the community will use.</blockquote>Now now, too late to get finicky. You already said every way, and that includes in ways that <b>you</b> aren't going to use. Play more of the game, stop complainaing, or quit. Or just keep complaining, as a fourth option....whatever.</blockquote>You're not getting it. I want the game to improve for everyone. Not just myself. However, if it's a fix for 1% of the population it can be put on hold until a fix for 99% of the population is in. I have played more of the game than you ever likely will. I don't simply just raid. I have played alts to 50+ and had fun doing it. However, that's not my focus. My focus is on end game raiding. You can stop putting words in my mouth now.</blockquote><p>Nonono, didn't put any words in your mouth, you did. You want it to improve for everyone, so you complain about the end-game problems that only the  'uber-raiders' and the like will find, and other things that bother mostly you and your ilk. That's improving for <b>you</b> not everyone. I'm not saying you don't want it to improve for everyone, I'm saying that you want <b>your</b> fixes first, as we all do.</p><p>And please don't assume you've played 'more of this game' than I have. I've been playing almost 4 years now, and have had plenty of time to do plenty of things. I have played this game my way, which is constant questing, HQs, writs, and exploration. You have done your thing, which is.. whatever you do. I may have played 'more of this game' geographically than you have, so please don't assume things. I'm not a raider, but I get around.</p></blockquote>And you also don't understand any of my qualms. I said I want the game fixed for everyone. I listed MY qualms that I have found. I never said don't fix things for the casual gamers. SOE should be concerned about the big fixes first, instead of their aesthetic fixes that always seem to be the biggest part of any LU.

[Jalanix]

Heh, its not just me! I have been farming Poet's Palace lately out of boredom and I've made it to the 4th floor twice (out of about 6 times).  I even had that happen to me while zoning to the 3rd floor the other day.  Very frustrating with a 18 hour lockout attached.  I wish there was like a grace period of maybe 15 minutes or so before you are kicked out of the dungeon. 

[Dasein]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just want to see it improve in every way and it just hasn't been happening.</blockquote>There's your problem. <b>every way</b>? Seriously? You're insane.</blockquote>Am I not supposed to want to see the game improve? I don't expect it to be fixed overnight. I do expect changes in patches to be game fixing changes and not useless changes that only 1% of the community will use.</blockquote>Now now, too late to get finicky. You already said every way, and that includes in ways that <b>you</b> aren't going to use. Play more of the game, stop complainaing, or quit. Or just keep complaining, as a fourth option....whatever.</blockquote>You're not getting it. I want the game to improve for everyone. Not just myself. However, if it's a fix for 1% of the population it can be put on hold until a fix for 99% of the population is in. I have played more of the game than you ever likely will. I don't simply just raid. I have played alts to 50+ and had fun doing it. However, that's not my focus. My focus is on end game raiding. You can stop putting words in my mouth now.</blockquote><p>Nonono, didn't put any words in your mouth, you did. You want it to improve for everyone, so you complain about the end-game problems that only the  'uber-raiders' and the like will find, and other things that bother mostly you and your ilk. That's improving for <b>you</b> not everyone. I'm not saying you don't want it to improve for everyone, I'm saying that you want <b>your</b> fixes first, as we all do.</p><p>And please don't assume you've played 'more of this game' than I have. I've been playing almost 4 years now, and have had plenty of time to do plenty of things. I have played this game my way, which is constant questing, HQs, writs, and exploration. You have done your thing, which is.. whatever you do. I may have played 'more of this game' geographically than you have, so please don't assume things. I'm not a raider, but I get around.</p></blockquote>And you also don't understand any of my qualms. I said I want the game fixed for everyone. I listed MY qualms that I have found. I never said don't fix things for the casual gamers. SOE should be concerned about the big fixes first, instead of their aesthetic fixes that always seem to be the biggest part of any LU.</blockquote>You seem to think that all devs can work on anything, so if one bug is fixed it means that devs aren't working on other bugs that you want fixed. Big fixes require lots of time and testing to fix, and may involve multiple departments, and include design-level decisions about balance and overall game direction. These things take lots of time. Like months.Small bugs that can be handled quickly by one or two developers should be taken care of. There's no reason to put all the small stuff on hold while the big fixes are worked on. This simply isn't feasible nor desirable.

[Nascent]

So you would rather have something that effects 1% of the population get fixed before something that effects 99%? That's grand.

[Dasein]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you would rather have something that effects 1% of the population get fixed before something that effects 99%? That's grand. </blockquote>Show me an issue that impacts 99% of the population that can be fixed quickly and easily - a bug, not a design issue like itemization. Now, how severe is this bug? Does it cause the game to be unplayable, or is it just a minor annoyance, or somewhere in between? What's the estimated amount of resources involved? How long will it take to fix the bug?

[Grol]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you would rather have something that effects 1% of the population get fixed before something that effects 99%? That's grand. </blockquote>I'd rather have the things that are finished faster be done faster personally.. They're working on big fixes. They're also working on small fixes.

[Nascent]

I can see how SOE puts the mirage of fixing things to good use now. Account deleted. Thanks for the confirmation on the reasons I should quit out weighing the reasons I should stay and hope for the best. [Removed for Content] you Sony.

[Grol]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can see how SOE puts the mirage of fixing things to good use now. Account deleted. Thanks for the confirmation on the reasons I should quit out weighing the reasons I should stay and hope for the best. [I cannot control my vocabulary] you Sony.</blockquote>Finally.. you'd already said you wanted to quit, took you long enough.. sheesh

[Dasein]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can see how SOE puts the mirage of fixing things to good use now. Account deleted. Thanks for the confirmation on the reasons I should quit out weighing the reasons I should stay and hope for the best. [I cannot control my vocabulary] you Sony.</blockquote>Whatever. Do you really have any idea how development departments are run? How project managers track and prioritize bug fixes?

[Yimway]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sulan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite>Why should tier 1 in VP (three tiers) be the hardest tier? It's reverse progression. The argument that the dev made with them being the keepers of the epics is bosh.</blockquote>First off Nascent,  I completely agree with your post on T8 Raid progression and itemization, however, this is nothing new.   Look at EH, short of Woushi, the hardest encounters (post nerf) were on the 1st floor.  Made zero sense to be structured that way, but the entire 2nd floor, and everything short of Woushi on the 3rd floor was trivial in comparison of post-nerf rumbler and the prince.I agree 100% the reward vs challenge of the upper tier RoK raid zones is completely out of whack.  Also the problems with only avatar geared people making it past a certain point is a HUGE problem.  SoE stated at launch some levels of gear needed for each progression point, and nothing was to require avater loot to beat.  Methinks SoE didn't actually put that statement to the test.Furthermore, do not bother even replying to these non-experienced, 'anti-raider', roll an alt, comments from people that don't actually have any experience in the content the complaint is about and have no vested interest either way.Letting your thread digress into a flame war with these people serves no purpose.  Stay on topic and find others with the experience in the content to either agree or disagree with your position.I for one, do agree with you on these points.  I think a great deal of the itemization was done last minute and not really thought thru, and there has been little changes to address this.  I'm afraid the changes would be to nerf legendary rather than up fabled quality, but my arguement would be that the fabled needs a bump across the board.  To make it an actual universal upgrade to legendary, and to in effect properly gear us for the higher tiers, and not restrict the non avatar raid guilds from advancing, or provide too significant an advantage to the t7 avatar geared people over other guilds working this content.$0.02

[cronar]

<p>I am suspect of anyone that plays this game to raid. Raiding has been a small part of the game, and never an advertised selling poing. Ok so they haven't advertised ANYTHING but that is besides the point.</p><p>If sony were truly smart and wanted to take a chance, they should really redo the eq1 engine and rerelease the game. THAT is a game centered on raiding and "end game" play.</p><p>Eq2 is flat out too small to properly satisfy all play styles. It's a shame too. </p><p>I myself am also going through a contemplation process about staying or leaving, but for different reasons.</p><p>I am a career soloer. I've done just about everything you can do as a soloer, hit max level and almost max AA. The next logical step would be to group up in some high level dungeons, but groups are pretty hard to come by, and when you do manage to get one put together you find yourself hitting a brick wall by encounters that have been retuned to make it a challenge for people who are raid geared. (specific example, the named feaster in maidens chamber has been retuned to being not fun for those who don't put out ultra high dps and whatnot)</p><p>However, i made a little trip over to wow only to be disgusted by its graphics and blatent younger core audience.</p><p>Also made a trip back to vanguard and was quite impressed with the performance in comparison to 6 months ago, but sadly found that game to be centered around group play as well, only to find it next to impossible to get a group at lower levels!!</p><p>When are mmo designers going to figure out how to satisfy the majority without leaving the niche groups out in the cold?</p><p>The short answer is never.</p>

[Dasein]

I'm curious what massive advantage Avatar loot would provide in defeating some of these encounters? Gearing up a raid force in Avatar loot will take a huge amount of time, considering the number of equipment slots, characters in a raid and availability of Avatars. It's not like killing a few Avatars will suddenly provide your entire raid force with Avatar-level loot. So, I find the argument that certain encounters will require Avatar loot to beat to be lacking, in that I do not see how a few pieces of better gear will provide this huge advantage.Further, this assumes that the problem with defeating these encounters comes down to being a bit short on DPS or HP or power or something like that - you get the encounter to 1% but need that extra oomph some better gear provides.

[Gnae]

Sorry to say this but SOE is the MMO of the month club.  Their focus isn't on EQ2 being the best game ever by hiring and retaining a large experienced staff, even the producer has left for greener fields.  SOE's plan is to hire interns to carry the load while a few new faces and some of the faithful stay on to churn out content as quickly as possible.Even though this game is really the only good game SOE has out at the moment, they are focusing on the Agency and DC Online.  Smed's pet project at the moment is Legends of Norrath as he is a TCG fan.  Unlike Blizzard who has a huge staff most likely and other MMO's just launching, EQ2 is 4 years old, mostly reinvented game that is actually growing, but the engine is showing it's age, the community is mostly top level and SOE is probably thinking maintain the game, add a bit here and there, but certainly not spend allot of money on EQ2.

[Dasein]

<cite>Gnaeus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry to say this but SOE is the MMO of the month club.  Their focus isn't on EQ2 being the best game ever by hiring and retaining a large experienced staff, even the producer has left for greener fields.  SOE's plan is to hire interns to carry the load while a few new faces and some of the faithful stay on to churn out content as quickly as possible.Even though this game is really the only good game SOE has out at the moment, they are focusing on the Agency and DC Online.  Smed's pet project at the moment is Legends of Norrath as he is a TCG fan.  Unlike Blizzard who has a huge staff most likely and other MMO's just launching, EQ2 is 4 years old, mostly reinvented game that is actually growing, but the engine is showing it's age, the community is mostly top level and SOE is probably thinking maintain the game, add a bit here and there, but certainly not spend allot of money on EQ2.</blockquote>So you're privy to top-level SOE strategy meetings?

[Frigid2000]

<p>Posts like these make me sigh.</p><p>1.) Itemization. Ok, sure. Needs some work. Especially in VP. Should T8 legendary rewards be comparable to T7 fabled? Some pieces, yes. But if you're happily dumping your fabled gear for the T8 legendary, and not keeping that fabled, you're in for one harsh backhand when you raid. Besides VP, I haven't really seen much of a problem. And if you replace ANY legendary/fabled gear with T8 treasured, I should slap you silly.</p><p>2.) Raid progression. Besides a bugged Druusk, I actually think it is pretty good. No, you do not need "Avatar-gear" to progress in VP. If you cannot progress in VP, perhaps it's people <b><i>NOT KNOWING HOW TO PLAY THEIR CLASS AND FUNCTION AS A RAID OR NOT HAVING THE RIGHT STRAT.</i></b></p><p>Doom, gloom, EQ2 is dying, omg it's terrible, Sony sucks, they don't care, blah, blah, blah, blah. Can't we just sticky one of these posts so we don't have to see them reposted over and over and people can just refer to that one?</p><p>In the MMO industry, the grass isn't greener on the other side. Sony is one of the fastest I have seen in making fixes. You want slow? Go play WoW.</p>

[Dasein]

<cite>Cyque@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Posts like these make me sigh.</p><p>1.) Itemization. Ok, sure. Needs some work. Especially in VP. Should T8 legendary rewards be comparable to T7 fabled? Some pieces, yes. But if you're happily dumping your fabled gear for the T8 legendary, and not keeping that fabled, you're in for one harsh backhand when you raid. Besides VP, I haven't really seen much of a problem. And if you replace ANY legendary/fabled gear with T8 treasured, I should slap you silly.</p></blockquote>I'd disagree here. There's some new effects that have been added, like the overloaded heal procs, which can make a big difference when stacked. One of the healers in my guild makes a point of getting as much overloaded heal gear as possible for raids, and he proc-heals the group for a huge amount. He'd gladly trade legendary gear for treasured if it has an overloaded heal proc.

[Spyderbite]

Oh goody.. I've missed this kind of thread! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />There are a thousand things you can do in this game to entertain yourself. To wait for a game company to constantly pump you entertainment on a bi-weekly basis for a measly $15/month is futile. Go to a movie theater and try to be entertained for more than 4 hours on $15.If you chose to shoot straight to end game... you got what you paid for. If you've experienced every single quest, tradeskill, class and race in game, then you got 24,000x what you paid for.Not much anyone here on the forums can do for you except make suggestions like "play an alt" or "pick up a tradeskill". SOE isn't going to rush their efforts to accommodate your boredom because you posted it here. No game manufacturer is going to for that matter.Find something else in EQ2 to do or quit. Its really that simple.. it really is. Everything you had will still be here when/if you get back after realizing that the gaming industry works the same way no matter which Login button you choose. Its how you play the game that makes it consistently fun over the years.

[Nascent]

<cite>Cyque@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Posts like these make me sigh.</p><p>1.) Itemization. Ok, sure. Needs some work. Especially in VP. Should T8 legendary rewards be comparable to T7 fabled? Some pieces, yes. But if you're happily dumping your fabled gear for the T8 legendary, and not keeping that fabled, you're in for one harsh backhand when you raid. Besides VP, I haven't really seen much of a problem. And if you replace ANY legendary/fabled gear with T8 treasured, I should slap you silly.</p><p>2.) Raid progression. Besides a bugged Druusk, I actually think it is pretty good. No, you do not need "Avatar-gear" to progress in VP. If you cannot progress in VP, perhaps it's people <b><i>NOT KNOWING HOW TO PLAY THEIR CLASS AND FUNCTION AS A RAID OR NOT HAVING THE RIGHT STRAT.</i></b></p><p>Doom, gloom, EQ2 is dying, omg it's terrible, Sony sucks, they don't care, blah, blah, blah, blah. Can't we just sticky one of these posts so we don't have to see them reposted over and over and people can just refer to that one?</p><p>In the MMO industry, the grass isn't greener on the other side. Sony is one of the fastest I have seen in making fixes. You want slow? Go play WoW.</p></blockquote><p>Your first point is trash. I keep all of my gear for those just in case moments. However, I was able to replace some t7 fabled with treasured and almost my entire t7 fabled set with mastercrafted. There are just items that are simply better than most of the t7 fabled.</p><p>2. List me all of the none avatar geared guilds to kill Nexona. We made it to silverwing before the revamp and made awesome progress on him. However, we can't get past the FIRST WING to save our butts. This is not correct progression.</p>

[Frigid2000]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cyque@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Posts like these make me sigh.</p><p>1.) Itemization. Ok, sure. Needs some work. Especially in VP. Should T8 legendary rewards be comparable to T7 fabled? Some pieces, yes. But if you're happily dumping your fabled gear for the T8 legendary, and not keeping that fabled, you're in for one harsh backhand when you raid. Besides VP, I haven't really seen much of a problem. And if you replace ANY legendary/fabled gear with T8 treasured, I should slap you silly.</p></blockquote>I'd disagree here. There's some new effects that have been added, like the overloaded heal procs, which can make a big difference when stacked. One of the healers in my guild makes a point of getting as much overloaded heal gear as possible for raids, and he proc-heals the group for a huge amount. He'd gladly trade legendary gear for treasured if it has an overloaded heal proc.</blockquote>Your healer won't last through the first RoK AE if all he has is treasured gear with overloaded heals, because his resists will be through the floor.

[Nascent]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh goody.. I've missed this kind of thread! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />There are a thousand things you can do in this game to entertain yourself. To wait for a game company to constantly pump you entertainment on a bi-weekly basis for a measly $15/month is futile. Go to a movie theater and try to be entertained for more than 4 hours on $15.If you chose to shoot straight to end game... you got what you paid for. If you've experienced every single quest, tradeskill, class and race in game, then you got 24,000x what you paid for.Not much anyone here on the forums can do for you except make suggestions like "play an alt" or "pick up a tradeskill". SOE isn't going to rush their efforts to accommodate your boredom because you posted it here. No game manufacturer is going to for that matter.Find something else in EQ2 to do or quit. Its really that simple.. it really is. Everything you had will still be here when/if you get back after realizing that the gaming industry works the same way no matter which Login button you choose. Its how you play the game that makes it consistently fun over the years.</blockquote>If you would have read the thread, I never posted I was bored.

[Dasein]

<cite>Cyque@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cyque@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Posts like these make me sigh.</p><p>1.) Itemization. Ok, sure. Needs some work. Especially in VP. Should T8 legendary rewards be comparable to T7 fabled? Some pieces, yes. But if you're happily dumping your fabled gear for the T8 legendary, and not keeping that fabled, you're in for one harsh backhand when you raid. Besides VP, I haven't really seen much of a problem. And if you replace ANY legendary/fabled gear with T8 treasured, I should slap you silly.</p></blockquote>I'd disagree here. There's some new effects that have been added, like the overloaded heal procs, which can make a big difference when stacked. One of the healers in my guild makes a point of getting as much overloaded heal gear as possible for raids, and he proc-heals the group for a huge amount. He'd gladly trade legendary gear for treasured if it has an overloaded heal proc.</blockquote>Your healer won't last through the first RoK AE if all he has is treasured gear with overloaded heals, because his resists will be through the floor.</blockquote>He has specific resist gear as needed, but so far, AOEs in general are not much of a problem. While we're not an uber raid guild by any means, he's had no trouble staying alive through all T1 raids and what we've done of T2 raids so far.

[Seffrid]

<cite>Danger@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Also made a trip back to vanguard and was quite impressed with the performance in comparison to 6 months ago, but sadly found that game to be centered around group play as well, only to find it next to impossible to get a group at lower levels!!</p></blockquote><p>I'm surprised that as a career soloer you should feel the need to get a group in VG at lower levels, I certainly haven't done so and I have a bevy of characters up to 28.</p><p>As to the OP, well I share the feeling of total disinterest towards raiding, and as for the interests of raiders they should be catered for but only as all playstyles should be, no more no less.</p><p>It was clear from the OP's first comments that he was in need of quitting the game and if he has truly done so then he will have answered his own question. </p>

[Dasein]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>2. List me all of the none avatar geared guilds to kill Nexona. We made it to silverwing before the revamp and made awesome progress on him. However, we can't get past the FIRST WING to save our butts. This is not correct progression.</blockquote>How much Avatar loot would a top-end raid guild have? I'd guess probably not more than a dozen total pieces of gear, spread out over 24 characters (or more). I fail to see how this provides a decisive advantage. Can you give me an example of a piece of Avatar gear that would be decisive in a fight against Nexona?

[dawy]

<cite>Csky wrote:</cite><blockquote>i have a blast in the game,  i couldnt care less about raiding tho</blockquote>Same here and i havent even started my epic weapon quest yet even now as much as i think RoK was badly flawed i still find things to do in the game

[Nascent]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>2. List me all of the none avatar geared guilds to kill Nexona. We made it to silverwing before the revamp and made awesome progress on him. However, we can't get past the FIRST WING to save our butts. This is not correct progression.</blockquote>How much Avatar loot would a top-end raid guild have? I'd guess probably not more than a dozen total pieces of gear, spread out over 24 characters (or more). I fail to see how this provides a decisive advantage. Can you give me an example of a piece of Avatar gear that would be decisive in a fight against Nexona?</blockquote>Are you [Removed for Content]? I never said just t8 avatars. High end t7 contested guilds have tons of avatar loot to the point where they xmuted a large majority of it by the end of EoF. All of these pieces can help with the encounter purely from a DPS standpoint.

[Dasein]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>2. List me all of the none avatar geared guilds to kill Nexona. We made it to silverwing before the revamp and made awesome progress on him. However, we can't get past the FIRST WING to save our butts. This is not correct progression.</blockquote>How much Avatar loot would a top-end raid guild have? I'd guess probably not more than a dozen total pieces of gear, spread out over 24 characters (or more). I fail to see how this provides a decisive advantage. Can you give me an example of a piece of Avatar gear that would be decisive in a fight against Nexona?</blockquote>Are you [I cannot control my vocabulary]? I never said just t8 avatars. High end t7 contested guilds have tons of avatar loot to the point where they xmuted a large majority of it by the end of EoF. All of these pieces can help with the encounter purely from a DPS standpoint. </blockquote>So the problem with Nexona is primarily a lack of DPS?

[salle]

Quote op:"omg this game has so many flaws give me reason to stay bla bla" Such a contstructive post....So people give you reasons, like "explore other sides of the game that you havn't already tried" seing as the only reason you had for staying was the bond you had with your guild I'd say that's actually pretty good suggestions.Your response to that is "omg I'm only intrested in raiding, you won't understand this because you havn't raided."Very constructive way to reply.But you know going the emo poster route of saying "I'm considering quitting, talk me out of it" is going to be met of a large amount of "don't let the door hit you on your way out" or "can I have your stuff" or simply "bye then" replies. Not knowing this and having played for 2 and a half years.... that's a bit weird.Anyhow the only reason for playing this game is "I feel that the time I spend while logged into the game is well spent" if not then leave. If you can't find the game entertaining/relaxing/escapistic(?) then stop playing it, get another hobby find another game or whatever. It's a simple realization. You might want to start playing it again later who knows. But it's not a big deal to quit this game.Lastly, I also raid, have been since eq1, but if you raid for the loot you'll always be dissapointed in the end. If you instead raid for the good feeling of cooperative achievement then you'll find that just getting the named you're stuck on down a few % more than last weeks raid rewarding. 

[Sabutai]

<cite>Cyque@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cyque@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Posts like these make me sigh.</p><p>1.) Itemization. Ok, sure. Needs some work. Especially in VP. Should T8 legendary rewards be comparable to T7 fabled? Some pieces, yes. But if you're happily dumping your fabled gear for the T8 legendary, and not keeping that fabled, you're in for one harsh backhand when you raid. Besides VP, I haven't really seen much of a problem. And if you replace ANY legendary/fabled gear with T8 treasured, I should slap you silly.</p></blockquote>I'd disagree here. There's some new effects that have been added, like the overloaded heal procs, which can make a big difference when stacked. One of the healers in my guild makes a point of getting as much overloaded heal gear as possible for raids, and he proc-heals the group for a huge amount. He'd gladly trade legendary gear for treasured if it has an overloaded heal proc.</blockquote>Your healer won't last through the first RoK AE if all he has is treasured gear with overloaded heals, because his resists will be through the floor.</blockquote>You have no idea how the game mechanics work if you think resists actually help in raids.

[Sabutai]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>2. List me all of the none avatar geared guilds to kill Nexona. We made it to silverwing before the revamp and made awesome progress on him. However, we can't get past the FIRST WING to save our butts. This is not correct progression.</blockquote>How much Avatar loot would a top-end raid guild have? I'd guess probably not more than a dozen total pieces of gear, spread out over 24 characters (or more). I fail to see how this provides a decisive advantage. Can you give me an example of a piece of Avatar gear that would be decisive in a fight against Nexona?</blockquote>Are you [I cannot control my vocabulary]? I never said just t8 avatars. High end t7 contested guilds have tons of avatar loot to the point where they xmuted a large majority of it by the end of EoF. All of these pieces can help with the encounter purely from a DPS standpoint. </blockquote>Your observation about RoK itemization is correct.  Most of the loot out of VP is transmute fodder.  Sorry you aren't having fun with the updated Nexona or Druushk, but there is some precedence to having hard mobs at the beginning of the zone.  EQ1 there a numerous examples.  Getting past the beginning of the zone opens up the loot pinatas at the end.If you looked at their ridiculous gear requirement for getting into and thru VP, your entire guild would need gear from the previous tiers (yea right).  Maybe that's the case after the revamp and you just need to get better dps gear from those zones, there are nicer loot pieces from those tiers than in VP.  Now the higher end guilds who have the 'avatar' gear from the previous tier are going to come into this expansion with a bit of an advantage.  But to say that you need it to progress?  Don't think so.  While my guild does have some people with avatar gear, about half don't have a single piece, so what does that mean?And avatar gear was not to a 'large majority' ever trasnmuted, sorry. 

[Estean1]

<p>Please talk me out of quitting the game.  This kind of thread is ridiculous.  Do you really think there is something someone will say to make you stay if you are allready posting multiple posts in a thread like this?  Go play somewhere else, if you are happy there, great!  If you aren't? Come back.   </p><p>The complaints you are talking about have been discussed at length in several different threads.  Move on or stay, but get over it and quit clogging the forums with this emo stuff. </p>

[Gnae]

No, but you can read posts from former developers who basically are privy and they lay it out pretty plain.  Plus you can also see simply how much staff and resources SOE provides these titles and you will know what is their priority and what isn't.  No one currently employed at SOE is going to come out and say we are all interns and don't know jack, they are going to tow the company line.  EQ2 has it pretty good, games like Vanguard are running on a skeleton crew, games like SWG are doomed due to NGE and many have left.  Games like EQ are running on fumes and there is virtually no access there for new players.  They downright refuse to make a classic server despite the overwhelming desire for it.Everquest II is in fact their best product right now, but much of its development isn't done in SOE San Diego anymore, it's done by SOGA.  Not saying SOGA doesn't do a great job, but they don't put their AAA devs on this game anymore.

[Dasein]

<cite>Gnaeus wrote:</cite><blockquote>No, but you can read posts from former developers who basically are privy and they lay it out pretty plain.  Plus you can also see simply how much staff and resources SOE provides these titles and you will know what is their priority and what isn't.  No one currently employed at SOE is going to come out and say we are all interns and don't know jack, they are going to tow the company line.  EQ2 has it pretty good, games like Vanguard are running on a skeleton crew, games like SWG are doomed due to NGE and many have left.  Games like EQ are running on fumes and there is virtually no access there for new players.  They downright refuse to make a classic server despite the overwhelming desire for it.Everquest II is in fact their best product right now, but much of its development isn't done in SOE San Diego anymore, it's done by SOGA.  Not saying SOGA doesn't do a great job, but they don't put their AAA devs on this game anymore.</blockquote>SOGA only develops art assets, and does a rather good job at it, too.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Gnaeus wrote:</cite><blockquote>No one currently employed at SOE is going to come out and say we are all interns and don't know jack</blockquote>Tin Foil Hats aren't in style anymore... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And, you couldn't be more wrong. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[cronar]

<cite>Seffrid wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Danger@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Also made a trip back to vanguard and was quite impressed with the performance in comparison to 6 months ago, but sadly found that game to be centered around group play as well, only to find it next to impossible to get a group at lower levels!!</p></blockquote><p>I'm surprised that as a career soloer you should feel the need to get a group in VG at lower levels, I certainly haven't done so and I have a bevy of characters up to 28.</p></blockquote><p>The ratio of solo to small group/full group quests is a bit skewed. My guy was level 16 and the only quests i had left are all group where you have to face nasty four dot mobs.</p><p>Back on topic, kinda, last night i payed attention to the 70-79/80 chat channels and noticed people asking for groups for epic stuff for more than a couple hours to no avail. If it wasn't for the everybody bash mysticdrew fest that came on about 10pm or so, it likely would've never changed.</p><p>The one thing that devs can't make happen is a community supporting one another.....</p>

[Killerbee3000]

<cite>Danger@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Back on topic, kinda, last night i payed attention to the 70-79/80 chat channels and noticed people asking for groups for epic stuff for more than a couple hours to no avail. If it wasn't for the everybody bash mysticdrew fest that came on about 10pm or so, it likely would've never changed.<p>The one thing that devs can't make happen is a community supporting one another.....</p></blockquote>soe's fault for placing mob in odd spots... getting a group for epic updates would be far closer to possible if you woud hav eto do something like clear maidens 20 times. But having to kill mobs in areas noone wants to go to with zero loot does result in noone being willing to help, its basic logic.

[Rqron]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can see how SOE puts the mirage of fixing things to good use now. Account deleted. Thanks for the confirmation on the reasons I should quit out weighing the reasons I should stay and hope for the best. [I cannot control my vocabulary] you Sony.</blockquote>Good riddanceJ.C.

[Rqron]

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sulan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite>Why should tier 1 in VP (three tiers) be the hardest tier? It's reverse progression. The argument that the dev made with them being the keepers of the epics is bosh.</blockquote>First off Nascent,  I completely agree with your post on T8 Raid progression and itemization, however, this is nothing new.   Look at EH, short of Woushi, the hardest encounters (post nerf) were on the 1st floor.  Made zero sense to be structured that way, but the entire 2nd floor, and everything short of Woushi on the 3rd floor was trivial in comparison of post-nerf rumbler and the prince.I agree 100% the reward vs challenge of the upper tier RoK raid zones is completely out of whack.  Also the problems with only avatar geared people making it past a certain point is a HUGE problem.  SoE stated at launch some levels of gear needed for each progression point, and nothing was to require avater loot to beat.  Methinks SoE didn't actually put that statement to the test.Furthermore, do not bother even replying to these non-experienced, 'anti-raider', roll an alt, comments from people that don't actually have any experience in the content the complaint is about and have no vested interest either way.Letting your thread digress into a flame war with these people serves no purpose.  Stay on topic and find others with the experience in the content to either agree or disagree with your position.I for one, do agree with you on these points.  I think a great deal of the itemization was done last minute and not really thought thru, and there has been little changes to address this.  I'm afraid the changes would be to nerf legendary rather than up fabled quality, but my arguement would be that the fabled needs a bump across the board.  To make it an actual universal upgrade to legendary, and to in effect properly gear us for the higher tiers, and not restrict the non avatar raid guilds from advancing, or provide too significant an advantage to the t7 avatar geared people over other guilds working this content.$0.02</blockquote>Fact is, in the mind of the average..speak majority of players raiders are a nuesance and all would be better of without some of them with theyre elitist attitude. Like I said earlier good riddance to him raiders like him and his attitude are what divides this game. There are many raiders out there that have a healthy unterstanding about the interaction within this game and they understand that raiders NEED the average and casual player as much as the casual player needs the raiders. Without raiders a lot of the loot that is available for the casual player would not exist but on the other hand without the casual player buying the loot raiders would not be able to raid because they would not have enough coin for all repairs and other critical needs.  It is the attitude of a few elitist that sour and divide the game. From his comments I only can say altough it may be a "loss" to his guild the rest of Norath will be a lot better of with him leaving the game.J.C.

[gi]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've been pondering canceling my account for the past 3 months and I guess I am looking for reasons to continue playing. The reasons I haven't quit:I have tons of friends in the guild and would like to see Nexona die again and get my mythical.The reasons I want to quit:SOE never produces the content they say they will. Guild halls, epics were way late, they were broken when they were released, t8 treasured replaced much of the t7 fabled, VP loot is not worth the time to do it, and Nexona is really only beatable by avatar geared guilds. When doing my epic, the day they came out, I got stuck on loading entity resources when zoning into the fourth floor of PP. I eventually closed the window so I could try to get back in. I logged back in to find myself outside of the zone and locked out for 18 hours. I petitioned and thought they may be understanding because this bug happens constantly during raids and zoning in general. But of course they didn't understand. A LEAD GM said that it was my fault that I got locked out because my internet must have cut out. He took no regard to me saying that I was in vent talking to people at the time and browsing whilst I zoned. He simply said lockouts are there for a reason and there is nothing they can do about it. Way to go customer support. You really came through on that one. As stated above, Veeshan's Peak loot is a complete joke. There are a few good pieces, but not many to make it worth re-clearing. Especially when the hardest wing is the first wing. I remember when there used to be some progression to the game. That has long since been gone. There is no way the first wing should be the hardest wing. Druushk is also bugged to the point of guilds exploiting it as the only way beating it. I play on the Unrest server, and I'm sure most of you have heard about the Unhallowed Triad fiasco. Well, I don't much like being treated like I'm a mean human being because SOE just felt like being nice to a guild that has tested the game. They rolled their characters on test and knew the transfer rules. However, SOE decided to break their own policies and <b>sneak</b> the guild to Unrest. Once the players found out, they were understandably upset, unless you were SOE. Sony basically said that we were a bane to the game. Way to go again, at making your customers feel great.RoK has been almost a complete failure. The only fun raid zones are t2 raid zones and maybe PR.-----------Tell me again why I shouldn't quit?</blockquote><p>Hi, seems like you have had some bad luck with SoE support.. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>My advice would be to leave or at least take an extended break, if you need convincing to stay thats a bad sign. It sounds like you are unhappy with the game overall, especially the end game. Theres no point playing a game that you are angry/frustrated at even if you have guild friends, its not a good thing to come away from an evening playing with a p'd off attitude, doesn't do anyone any good. Take a break, or leave, or take some other positive action to change the situation your in would be my 2 coppers.</p>

[salty21db]

Sounds like an original hardcore player to me.  I used to be one myself but ive "blended" with the times there aint many hardcore players anymore most of em grew up and got jobs, families, etc.  The majority of players nowadays are casuals and thats what most and pretty much all of your games/mmo's are gonna be leaning towards cuz its the bigger money market.  And about the quality of service there is a chance u got a bad gm or what not but anytime u feel that u are getting shafted by the soe staff or for anyone that says they arent good at there job do me a favor and go play WoW for a bit and try to deal with the blizzard staff.  This game is like a breath of fresh air to me.  I played EQ1 for 4yrs startin with Luclin, i then went and played WoW for 1.5 yrs and couldnt stand the super casual carebear style anymore, and now im here and i couldnt be happier to be back at SoE after dealing with Blizzard.  It goes with the saying the grass aint always greener on the other side.

[Wildmage]

<cite>Nascent@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can see how SOE puts the mirage of fixing things to good use now. Account deleted. Thanks for the confirmation on the reasons I should quit out weighing the reasons I should stay and hope for the best. [I cannot control my vocabulary] you Sony.</blockquote>I call his boots!

[cronar]

<p>I've said it so many times in eq1 and eq2 forums that i'm beating my own dead horse, but raiding in these games ruins it for everyone else.</p><p>The prrimary reason is that the game developers have to start tuning normal group encounters to be a challenge to the raiders, otherwise the raider gets bored and crys foul.</p><p>This leaves encounters too difficult for the majority of the player base. It is rampant in eq1 and starting to rear its ugly head in eq2.</p><p>Raiding is what destroys mmo's. </p>

[Zeldane]

Ouch, you called SOE; it. If I were a MOD i'd absolutly, positively delete this thread and fast. Its like calling your mother or your baby; it. For the love they have given you.

[Sabutai]

<cite>Danger@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I've said it so many times in eq1 and eq2 forums that i'm beating my own dead horse, but raiding in these games ruins it for everyone else.</p><p>The prrimary reason is that the game developers have to start tuning normal group encounters to be a challenge to the raiders, otherwise the raider gets bored and crys foul.</p><p>This leaves encounters too difficult for the majority of the player base. It is rampant in eq1 and starting to rear its ugly head in eq2.</p><p>Raiding is what destroys mmo's. </p></blockquote>If you want an MMO that has no raiding go play City of Heroes, see how well that game has done in comparison.  Fact is people enjoy content that has more the 1 group of people.  Its challenging to put content in for large groups of people, don't like?  deal with it, raiding isn't what destroys MMOs, its the envy people have for the people that enjoy raiding.

[Wildmage]

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Danger@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I've said it so many times in eq1 and eq2 forums that i'm beating my own dead horse, but raiding in these games ruins it for everyone else.</p><p>The prrimary reason is that the game developers have to start tuning normal group encounters to be a challenge to the raiders, otherwise the raider gets bored and crys foul.</p><p>This leaves encounters too difficult for the majority of the player base. It is rampant in eq1 and starting to rear its ugly head in eq2.</p><p>Raiding is what destroys mmo's. </p></blockquote>If you want an MMO that has no raiding go play City of Heroes, see how well that game has done in comparison.  Fact is people enjoy content that has more the 1 group of people.  Its challenging to put content in for large groups of people, don't like?  deal with it, raiding isn't what destroys MMOs, its the envy people have for the people that enjoy raiding.</blockquote>City of heroes does have a form of raiding.

[Stuge]

<span style="font-family: courier new,courier;">One day in the future I may decide to quit EQ2.  If, when I do, I post a big `ol "look at me I'm quitting and here's why gee I hope people think I'm being poignant good bye to my online friends forever gripe gripe!" thread, I give you all permission to hunt me down and kick my [I cannot control my vocabulary] for being a complete tool.Seriously, why can't people just leave<i> without </i>the added drama?  Just GO.</span>